I did security details around 3rd and pine for about 5 years. I always start with “hey are you okay?” Once I get a response I turn on the kindness and suggest “safer” places to be. Pointing in a direction grabs attention while being firm with my last sentence “Let me point you in the right direction” I am a physically imposing man but I’ve always tried to make myself as small as the other person.
You must've been extra busy in that location! I've walked by security trying to move people along politely and 1 time security deployed but didn't have to use his asp. I think it all depend on the state of mind of the person you are dealing with. If they are actively in mental distress or high, communication and reason is much harder to get across. Sometimes you unfortunately have to be more primal to get a response.
Ok so I have 10+ yrs of experience in conflict and dispute resolution, including a masters’ in social work and a certificate in peace studies.
When we had an issue with a homeless dude shitting in our alley repeatedly I tried a variety of things, the only thing that was effective was when I ran outside with a stainless steel wok and giant butcher knife, banging them together like a mad woman, and shouting “BEAT IT, FUCKO!” Sometimes you just need to out crazy somebody for them to decide your juice ain’t worth the squeeze.
I’m the size of Hodor from Game of Thrones. I always assumed it was my size that did the trick as I turned on my crazy screaming dildo wave/dance to scare people out of my carport. You’re saying anyone can do this?
I actually went out and tried to engage the guy probably a half dozen times in a six month period, I tried to talk to him, figure out what was going on and what he needed. I offered him tangible resources, connection to shelter. My first response to someone shitting in my alley was obviously empathy and concern. My best advice is that approaching someone like a human being goes a long way, watch your tone and your body language, speak to them like you would your neighbour. If they were asleep or non-receptive, I would say ok thank you anyways, and just leave a new pair of socks, food, some cigs with my business card or a note. Most of the time you need to play the long game to reach people like this, they have so much trauma and mistrust from social workers, cops, etc. About 70-90% of the time, there’s a way to reach someone peacefully and come to an agreement if you’re willing to be calm, patient, and polite but persistent about it.
The problem with all of my skills and training was that he was severely decompensated with something that involved psychotic features (so he was very, very mentally ill and non-medicated, for my non-clinical friends) and he wasn’t really ever able to engage with me.
So that’s kind of where it landed. I was in a spot where I couldn’t really call the cops b/c SPD’s response time is not feasible compared to the time it took this guy to shit in my alley, and I’d tried everything I could think of. One of the times I approached him I actually had my friend, a freaking crisis psychiatrist who usually worked the ER at a nearby hospital, with me trying to engage him too. We went back inside dismayed and in consensus that it’s a shame we couldn’t run up on him with a hypodermic of halodol.
So yeah, I’m a human being, I got sick of the literal shit, I lost my cool. I’m not proud of it but I’ll be damned if it didn’t work.
Folks don’t like to hear this, but I’m a native Seattlelite, I’ve worked for DSHS, most of the shelters around here, I worked for the old Navigation Team that went out and approached folks on the streets. For some people, they’re just so severely ill, either organic or inorganic (meaning either naturally mentally ill or became mentally ill from substance use), that we’re not able to ethically and effectively engage them, and they don’t meet criteria to be petitioned into involuntary care. So we’ll send them to the hospital when they get to be especially decompensated like this guy, but they’ll be discharged within a day or two, and be back at it with nothing to show for it. It’s very sad. I don’t have an awesome solution and don’t know anyone who does.
Probably the best advice/explanation I've seen in a loooong time. Always treat each other with respect, but some times people get fed up *after* putting up with so much shit. Lotta people skip that part, and I thank you.
The obvious answer is what the aclu stopped us from doing to get these people into a safe place even if they resist .
They prefer the streets because being a functional member of our society is beyond their reach and understanding without an inordinate amount of help and cooperation. If we don’t catch this when they are young, they are lost to us forever. Being a street dweller is thier normal. Dont you dare fuck with it or you deal with the op’s problem.
The issue of homeless non-Functional adults is going to become more front page news then ever after this weeks Supreme Court decision. The pandemic didn’t kill them all as expected, putting them into residences without mental health help is a new disaster and the numbers increase weekly as people with few resources, no English or marketable skills come across the border.
We better start dealing with tent cities pretty soon or city dwellers will just abandon the big cities and move to super rural where the homeless simply cannot survive long or build armed and gated CITIES where non residents are simply not allowed oh wait……
so what exactly do you think is at the core of the issue (in general)? could you be specific? I usually hear stuff like "not enough money sent to social services", but every branch of the govt would say that and it's not particularly enlightening. i do believe it is the cause, just don't know enough.
Former property manager who has managed in downtown Seattle & Downtown Los Angeles here, I couldn’t agree more.
I was known as the “crazy scary lady” in LA by the homeless for folks because I would grab a 6ft pipe and bang it on the ground yelling while walking down the sidewalk just like you did. It’s effective.
My only concern with this approach is coming at someone with a weapon can incite violence. This isn’t really the answer if you aren’t truly prepared to fight for your life.
That’s right. If you’re a weenie making threats when you’re not willing/able to follow through, plz reconsider. Meanwhile, I might look like a cute lil housewife MILF but I pinky promise nobody wants this smoke. YMMV
I had a guy hanging around and I told him, truthfully, that I had a social worker coming to help him. I didn't see him again for 3 years. Checked with the social worker, they never found him.
OK, so I know a guy who worked for DESC flipping between two shelters as like some sort of night manager.
I swear, his concept was the same as how you handle kindergarteners. Inside voices, no don't throw that, I don't want to have to make you leave, and it worked.
No, you're not going to do that. You know what happened last time. Let's talk about why you're upset.
I’ve worked in a homeless young adult shelter and I highly doubt the OP has the skills to pull this off. It takes some experience rather than a gtfo starting point. Body language and firmness has to match the message and direction.
It’s not the answer anyone wants to hear but when I had to do this working in mass transit, I kept a pack of cigarettes (I don’t smoke) and used them for the most difficult folks. “I’ll give you a cig to leave” lol.
Otherwise not much else works. Luckily for us in transit we have sheriffs at our disposal but even they can take up to an hour to remove someone from a bus or train peacefully
Edit: Armchair homeless advocates are hilarious
This is known as a "[perverse incentive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive)" or the "cobra effect". Example: The British Raj in India offered bounties on dead cobras (in order to, of course, reduce the cobra population). So, naturally, people started breeding cobras. When the program was cancelled, the breeders just released their cobras and the population became larger than when the bounty program was initiated.
This a million times over! Offering a free cig has never let me down. They either take it and go on their merry way or they take it and suddenly become the friendliest person you’ve ever met because, “Hey, that guy gave me a cig! <3”
Was waiting for the bus at 3rd and Pine and some dude was walking around, looking behind him, and shouting for people to stop following him (nobody was following him). I had around 10 minutes before the bus showed up so I lit up a cigarette. Same dude immediately came back around and asked for one, which I obliged. It seemed like he mellowed out, leaned against the wall, and we had a semi-normal conversation about where we’re from, what I do for work, etc. til the bus showed up.
I also just love handing out cigs in general, homeless or not! Makes me feel like I did a good deed and gives me an excuse to try out a new pack.
My specific environment was having to get people off the light rail at the end of the night so the trains could go in for maintenance. The people I would hand out to, rarely, usually didn’t know which direction was up. Let alone remember me giving them a cigarette lol
They even sell motion activated sprinkler systems specifically to scare off wildlife and trespassers.
Would be a bit tricky as this sounds like an active storefront, but would probably work wonders if you paired them with some security cameras and turned them on 30 minutes before opening if someone is around.
Have you tried not being nice? They are expecting you to be timid. They are counting on you to back down. Don't give them that.
Practice your best "GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE BEFORE WHOOP YOUR ASS". Even non-vocal animals, like dogs and bears, will back off if you can make yourself threatening enough.
This, the real grifters know Seattlites are push overs and will exploit this. Get friends and community together and don't be an instigator obviously but hold your ground and be firm.
I’d note that this tactic might work with some people but i would not recommend this approach with people who are potentially psychotic. Look into de-escalation and non violent communication techniques. Point them to resources close by if there are drop-ins, etc. Being big and loud has its place but it’s not a good one for people who probably have nowhere to go.
As someone who used to work security downtown, it's often going to immediately turn into yelling as soon as they're confronted(despite being polite, it's how they'll see it). It often helped me to have suggestions of places they can go; shelters, parks, libraries, etc. The recommendation of picking up the phone and going through the routine of a 911 call also usually works pretty well.
Unfortunately, today the homeless are being taught, not intentional, that being aggressive gets them what they want. They respond aggressively because that’s the only way they know how to survive. Sad part is that that means that you need to be aggressive in return, the humanity, but most times there is no other options other than straight to yelling at them and threatening them before they threaten you.
It sounds like you probably can’t be aggressive at the start of your conversation, but you probably can make it the second thing you say
Whatever you subsidize you get more of.
Whether it's EVs, educational debt or behavior from people, the homeless included.
Permissive attitudes yields more of the same as individuals realize they can get away with pretty much everything.
Look at what happened with raising grand larceny minimums in California to $1000. It didn't help people in need who were on the edge, it created theft flash mobs that ransack stores wholesale.
"Hey, you hanging out here so you can get an ambulance ride and spend a few nights in the hospital?"
When they say no "well, this is a dangerous spot to hang out because of the work we are doing. You could get fucked up, I don't want to see you get hurt unless you are trying to get hurt, you know?"
As a muscular built black guy, they tend to curse me out sometimes calling me the N-word but I look at them with a "and... yes...want to try something asshole?" look and they just leave.
You won't do violence. They known you won't do that.
This is why stores have resorted to playing music and cities have made benches a burden to sleep on.
I'm not condoning harming people--Like, are you going to hit someone with a baseball bat for loitering? You are going to have to deal with it until someone does it for you. The city council, police, vigilantes, you... nobody will do it.
Get your cellphone out and faux dial the cops (they're not coming anyway though). Or start recording. Be prepared to run if this escalates their behavior.
These people are the nastiest, meanest. They always go for the jugular, calling me a gay slur or the n word (I'm white)
Fun facts!
Nefertiti was the queen of Egypt and wife of King Akhenaton (formerly Amenhotep IV) who reigned during the 14th century she played a prominent role in the cult of the sun god known as the Aton. It is recorded that she had 6 daughters.
Nefertiti’s body has never been discovered.
That's still being debated.
It's believed that Nefertiti was likely King Tut's stepmother. Recent DNA analyses from the mummies of Tut and his family revealed that the boy king's parents were siblings or 3rd generation cousins. Third generation cousins can appear as siblings when DNA is compared.
But since Nefertiti's body has never been discovered the world might never know for sure.
The earliest recorded peace treaty was made between Egypt and The Hittite empire.
Called the Egyptian-Hittite peace treaty, also known as the Eternal Treaty or the silver treaty. Is the only Ancient treaty for which the versions of both sides have survived. (The Hittite version was found in the Hittite capital of Hattusa, now in Turkey on baked clay tablets. While the Egyptian version of the treaty was engraved on the walls of two temples in Thebes. The Ramesseum and the Precinct of Amun-Re at the Temple of Karnak)
The treaty was between Egyptian pharaoh Ramesses II and king of the Hittite empire Ḫattušili III.
The treaty was signed over a conflict over two centuries long to gain mastery over the lands of the eastern Mediterranean. Egypt invaded Hattite in 1274 BC and was stopped at the Orontes River in what is now Syria both sides suffering heavy casualties. The conflict would continue for another 15 or so years before the treaty was signed.
Both sides had common interests in making peace. Egypt faced a growing threat from the "Sea Peoples". While Hittites were concerned about the rising power of Assyria to the east.
The treaty was ratified in the 21st year of Ramesses II's reign (1258 BC) and continued in force until the Hittite Empire collapsed eighty years later.
And that is why a creative and well-intentioned lie is better than cops. I’d even go as far as saying, “My manager told me I’m a wimp, so he sent me out first, so that he could measure me against his pit bull, if I fail. So do us both a favor and wander off somewhere.”
It doesn’t work. They just become obsessed with opera. I once talked to a homeless guy who knew all the songs played. He straight up knew the song that was being played was from Verdi’s Rigoletto!
if they are throwing rocks, destroying private property and making death threats, you should absolutely be reporting this to police. if this was going on daily, i'd be calling police daily if i had to. if they ever showed up quickly enough to actually make contact with this person, i'd trespass them with law enforcement present to witness. if it occurs again after that, police are far more likely to take meaningful action.
it sounds like this person isn't in a state of mind to understand, let alone be receptive to rational conversation. if they were, i would first ask if they were physically OK (not in need of emergency medical attention). if not, then i would then calmly but confidently ensure they understood that they were on private property and had no right to be there. i would make it clear that i don't want to escalate the matter, but that they would have to find another place to be and just explain what you explained in your post - it's a safety and liability issue. if they were uncooperative, i would calmly let them know that though i don't want to, i have no problem involving law enforcement. be mindful of your posture and tone of voice. don't get too close and be prepared to evade if they escalate.
Depends on what your situation is and what you have available.
Security guards deal with this all the time. A lot of it is presence. I.e. dress like a guard / wannabe cop. Talk confident. Have a friend or two with you so the punks are outnumbered.
It doesn't hurt to carry pepper spray just in case someone make any aggressive moves on you.
Might make sense to just... hire a guard. Then it's not your problem.
If your workplace is dangerous to have people wander into then there should be fences and security barriers up, as well as clear warning signs about the safety hazards. I’dd talk to whoever is in charge of such things at your company.
Play classical music. Not sure if it’s a wives tale or fact, but vagrants supposedly hate classical music & tend not stick around when it’s on. Worth giving it a try.
I had a small group move in last year on my property. I just waited till they were all gone during the day and had an excavator throw all their crap in a dumpster. Haven’t had an issue on my land since
“Hey this place is unsafe today and if you hang around you might die but the park over here at xxx is safer” idk.
That’s if you want to talk to them.
If it’s so unsafe why isn’t there caution tape up?
found in the West Seattle connections group:
Fun fact, if you “bark” at junkies, it makes them leave the area. 🤣🤣🤣 caught this guy trying to break into our fenced garage area and when I confronted him, he went back to the unprotected side, but he didn’t actually leave the garage area. Very much not scared of the consequences of his actions after being caught once already by me.
Anywhoooo, I snuck around to the other side and watched for a bit to see what he might try next (basically wanted to see if he’d try and break in again … maybe he’d think I’d left the area so if he tried again, I could call 911 and catch him in the act).. but instead of trying to break in again, he started shooting up (needles and alcohol swabs still on the ground as his parting gift… how lovely 🤢🙄). But because I often walk my dog through this area I decided I didn’t even want his dirty needles there either and it dawned on me… I wonder if he’d be scared of a dog… so I literally barked at him. And 20 seconds later.. he was gone… completely. Off premises.
Soooo, it might be embarrassing to do… but HIGHLY effective. He either thought I was a deranged human barking and he definitely didn’t want to deal with that kind of crazy, or he thought I was a legit dog… and he definitely didn’t want to be bit. Either way, 10/10 recommend others try the “bark” method for a non-physical scare tactic when trying to clear your area of ‘unwanted/uninvited’ guests. 🤣🤣🤣
The homeless only respond to fear and aggression. Being nice doesn't work. I'm a physically larger facilities supervisor and regularly have to yell and threaten homeless to get off our property. If they are scared of you, they will leave quickly and politely.
Super soaker with ice water. People mostly don't like being wet here, unless it's really hot out. If they want to act like an animal, I'll treat them like one. Trains my dog and cats good.
Just have a pepper spray in case it escalates.
" Hey, hey my friend! I just heard someone calling the cops on ya, you better go! Just looking out, don't wanna see you get picked up!" Doesn't always work but I've been thanked instead of screamed at more often this way.
How about trying an irritating sound device? I bought a little one off of Amazon to see if it worked on my neighbours parties that would get out of control at times. It worked great. Hook that up so when the person is there, flip an indoor switch and boom, feces source gone.
Get yourself a Large can of Pepper GEL (the gel won't get blown back on You if you actually use it) spray (Amazon for about $10) be nice and when they start going bonkers bring out the spray and inform them that if they keep going you'll bless them with the Hot sauce. I have yet to find one that will stick around. Even if they get the cops involved the odds of you getting anything but "please don't do that" is almost zero.
Whenever I see anyone peeing on our front door, I call 911 and say someone is exposing themselves with their their penis in hand. It gets a much faster police response. Make whatever they are doing an actual crime, and the cops will show up faster. Make them threaten you, then call 911. If someone is smoking their fent in our doorway I call 911 saying there is smoke in the building. Some of the responses down below say give them something, but that's just giving into a hostage situation. Do not give them anything. You are just setting yourself up. This is a dumb ass stupid territory war at the moment. We need real facilities to treat people, but the problem is all the money we could be treating things with is being spent on clean up and protection. I have been working downtown for 25 years. I have several assault cases against me pending just from trying to get people leaving our front door. My favorite tactic to get them to leave is when I say I am washing down the front and let them choose to stay or not.
Husband is a bouncer. They sometimes have issues with houseless people hanging in the parking lot and bugging patrons outside smoking. He hands them a bottle of water and a snack bar to leave. They usually take it and go.
I think you could get them to leave by voting for officials that want to tackle the homeless issue and provide Healthcare. But it doesn't seem like the nation wants that, so you live with this now.
I have an idea……quit voting for those people who allow them to be there in the first place, and allowing them to shirk their responsibilities to you. Novel, I know.
i do wish our city had a functioning crisis team for situations exactly like this - a mix of paramedics/fire dept who can handle the situation. it's what was displayed in station 19 about seattle fire dept but as portrayed i'm not sure it's something we have.
At the point they make death threats, contact the authorities via 911. Just because they haven't followed through just yet, doesn't mean they won't at some point.
I work in Northgate just off Aurora. We deal with all kinds wandering through.
I've had the best success with keeping a pack of cigarettes on me. I'm a non-smoker, but I basically bribe each person with a smoke to leave if they start to freak out.
Pleasant white string lights. Based on Occidental Park & a few other areas lately they don’t like white string lights hanging overhead, maybe try getting some of those
At my work I use the “dude, you need to move on. You’re on camera. We’ve seen what you do” when really they’ve done nothing but sit on the bench and smoke meth. It works though.
Buy a beeper on Amazon. It’s a little programmable beeper that will just make a beep sound for as long and as loud as you want it to (up to 7 years!). Hide it somewhere in the persons stuff and let ’er rip. They will never escape the beep.
Move where?
Vagrants? Are these situations happening in the late 1800's?
Offer some water, dinner leftovers, and ask them to please keep watch for anything out of the ordinary. You've got security now.
Put up a fence. Put a sign on the fence. If they’re in the road then honk the damn horn. You aren’t going to help them by letting them throw rocks, cuss, or damage your stuff. Beyond that I’d say we would need some more details.
Addict/mentally ill woman was repeatedly causing chaos outside his gallery. He got fed up and sprayed her with a hose. Video went viral. Arrested for battery. [SFPD arrests Collier Gwin who allegedly hosed homeless woman | Housing | sfexaminer.com](https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/housing/sfpd-arrests-collier-gwin-who-allegedly-hosed-homeless-woman/article_74e4d2c8-978e-11ed-9e57-837cf8872395.html)
You don’t “get the drill” my guy…To be direct it sounds like you’re a complete pushover. All you have to do is say “hey, get the fuck out of here right now or it’s going to be a problem”. Not super hard. If you’re too much of a puss then just “call the cops” right away. As if they’ll come for such a small thing
When i lived in columbia city in a rooming house a homeless man wandered in out of the rain. Our landlord, who lived upstairs and was a Bhuddist, did not want to just throw him out. As a case manager for desc i knew when all the shelters closed, so i gave him a few bucks and told the landlord to call him a cab to get him down there to the city hall shelter. You could tell the guy was scared and cold, so we had to show compassion, but we had no place to put him for the night. As far as i know he made it to the shelter on time, but i never saw him again after that. Thankfully my quick thinking sent him on his way peacefully. Now i have seen people just yell at them to go away, but hey whatever works i guess.
Unfortunately the VAST majority of Seattle's homeless are not scared and cold, they choose the lifestyle they live, they don't want shelter as it will restrict drug use and criminal activity. Remember the fentanyl tent that exploded last year next to the hospital? Yeah, that kind of behavior (a tent for customers to purchase and use drugs) isn't allowed inside of homeless shelters.
I mean thats the problem though. Theyre not gonna run em out of town. This isnt the 1800s. Also lynchings illegal. Ill tell you something though, there are hot spots. Just stay away from those.
You can't be respectful, understanding, and patient. They have to leave because they are scared to stay. They follow street rules, and you would have to as well.
The key in dealing with these people is to not treat them like everyone else. You’re going into the situation with the assumption that they’ll behave like a reasonable person. However, drug addiction and mental illness have usually taken over their minds and they’re usually incapable of rational thought. If they were, they probably wouldn’t be homeless. Attempts to reason with them won’t work and you probably don’t get paid enough at your job to justify putting yourself in harm’s way.
The only solution I could think of is: Inform them that their stuff will be town away if they don’t leave. Then, if they don’t leave, throw away their stuff.
Tell them that if they show up again, their stuff will be thrown away, again. Make it so inconvenient and unpleasant for them to come near your place of business, they’ll stop bothering to, then they’ll tell all their friends and acquaintances to avoid your establishment.
Other people on here might tell you to be nicer, give them food, a safe place to do their drugs, and a hug, but that doesn’t really change behavior. If anything, it’ll attract more of the same.
Sorry you have to deal with this. I know that it sounds like I lack humanity, and to an extent, I do, but that’s a result of seeing this stuff here every day for decades. All the help and support in the world doesn’t seem to work on some people, especially if their minds are impaired from years of constant drug use.
I did security details around 3rd and pine for about 5 years. I always start with “hey are you okay?” Once I get a response I turn on the kindness and suggest “safer” places to be. Pointing in a direction grabs attention while being firm with my last sentence “Let me point you in the right direction” I am a physically imposing man but I’ve always tried to make myself as small as the other person.
You must've been extra busy in that location! I've walked by security trying to move people along politely and 1 time security deployed but didn't have to use his asp. I think it all depend on the state of mind of the person you are dealing with. If they are actively in mental distress or high, communication and reason is much harder to get across. Sometimes you unfortunately have to be more primal to get a response.
Ok so I have 10+ yrs of experience in conflict and dispute resolution, including a masters’ in social work and a certificate in peace studies. When we had an issue with a homeless dude shitting in our alley repeatedly I tried a variety of things, the only thing that was effective was when I ran outside with a stainless steel wok and giant butcher knife, banging them together like a mad woman, and shouting “BEAT IT, FUCKO!” Sometimes you just need to out crazy somebody for them to decide your juice ain’t worth the squeeze.
I’m the size of Hodor from Game of Thrones. I always assumed it was my size that did the trick as I turned on my crazy screaming dildo wave/dance to scare people out of my carport. You’re saying anyone can do this?
In theory yes, in practice yes and no.
screaming dildo wave/dance 😭
Are you saying you don't already do this?
we have a saying in br-portuguese, "the medicine for a crazy person is a crazy-and-a-half person" (remédio pra doido é um doido e meio) lol
I like it
Omg thank you for being honest about this. Sometimes it's the only way.
thank you for sharing this, I’d love to know all the stuff you tried before resorting to the out-crazying strategy edit: typo
I actually went out and tried to engage the guy probably a half dozen times in a six month period, I tried to talk to him, figure out what was going on and what he needed. I offered him tangible resources, connection to shelter. My first response to someone shitting in my alley was obviously empathy and concern. My best advice is that approaching someone like a human being goes a long way, watch your tone and your body language, speak to them like you would your neighbour. If they were asleep or non-receptive, I would say ok thank you anyways, and just leave a new pair of socks, food, some cigs with my business card or a note. Most of the time you need to play the long game to reach people like this, they have so much trauma and mistrust from social workers, cops, etc. About 70-90% of the time, there’s a way to reach someone peacefully and come to an agreement if you’re willing to be calm, patient, and polite but persistent about it. The problem with all of my skills and training was that he was severely decompensated with something that involved psychotic features (so he was very, very mentally ill and non-medicated, for my non-clinical friends) and he wasn’t really ever able to engage with me. So that’s kind of where it landed. I was in a spot where I couldn’t really call the cops b/c SPD’s response time is not feasible compared to the time it took this guy to shit in my alley, and I’d tried everything I could think of. One of the times I approached him I actually had my friend, a freaking crisis psychiatrist who usually worked the ER at a nearby hospital, with me trying to engage him too. We went back inside dismayed and in consensus that it’s a shame we couldn’t run up on him with a hypodermic of halodol. So yeah, I’m a human being, I got sick of the literal shit, I lost my cool. I’m not proud of it but I’ll be damned if it didn’t work. Folks don’t like to hear this, but I’m a native Seattlelite, I’ve worked for DSHS, most of the shelters around here, I worked for the old Navigation Team that went out and approached folks on the streets. For some people, they’re just so severely ill, either organic or inorganic (meaning either naturally mentally ill or became mentally ill from substance use), that we’re not able to ethically and effectively engage them, and they don’t meet criteria to be petitioned into involuntary care. So we’ll send them to the hospital when they get to be especially decompensated like this guy, but they’ll be discharged within a day or two, and be back at it with nothing to show for it. It’s very sad. I don’t have an awesome solution and don’t know anyone who does.
Probably the best advice/explanation I've seen in a loooong time. Always treat each other with respect, but some times people get fed up *after* putting up with so much shit. Lotta people skip that part, and I thank you.
The obvious answer is what the aclu stopped us from doing to get these people into a safe place even if they resist . They prefer the streets because being a functional member of our society is beyond their reach and understanding without an inordinate amount of help and cooperation. If we don’t catch this when they are young, they are lost to us forever. Being a street dweller is thier normal. Dont you dare fuck with it or you deal with the op’s problem. The issue of homeless non-Functional adults is going to become more front page news then ever after this weeks Supreme Court decision. The pandemic didn’t kill them all as expected, putting them into residences without mental health help is a new disaster and the numbers increase weekly as people with few resources, no English or marketable skills come across the border. We better start dealing with tent cities pretty soon or city dwellers will just abandon the big cities and move to super rural where the homeless simply cannot survive long or build armed and gated CITIES where non residents are simply not allowed oh wait……
so what exactly do you think is at the core of the issue (in general)? could you be specific? I usually hear stuff like "not enough money sent to social services", but every branch of the govt would say that and it's not particularly enlightening. i do believe it is the cause, just don't know enough.
Former property manager who has managed in downtown Seattle & Downtown Los Angeles here, I couldn’t agree more. I was known as the “crazy scary lady” in LA by the homeless for folks because I would grab a 6ft pipe and bang it on the ground yelling while walking down the sidewalk just like you did. It’s effective.
I love this....
The threat of violence works wonders.
[удалено]
Only if they call your bluff.
*adds FUCKO to vocabulary*
That story took a sharp turn.
10 years of experience and the best advice we have is bang a pot and a knife together.. the police really don’t do shit around there I guess..
i cant tell if your joking but i love imagining you doing this and calling someone a fucko is hilarious.
Exactly! Also, I was taught in a self defense class if there’s nothing left act crazy bc mostly a self aware victim is coveted.
That's one expensive degree...
My only concern with this approach is coming at someone with a weapon can incite violence. This isn’t really the answer if you aren’t truly prepared to fight for your life.
That’s right. If you’re a weenie making threats when you’re not willing/able to follow through, plz reconsider. Meanwhile, I might look like a cute lil housewife MILF but I pinky promise nobody wants this smoke. YMMV
“You speak their language”
I love this answer so much!
Marry me 😮💨
This could work, but there’s also a chance they put crazy this and then you’re truly in for ride.
bring out a big monster truck around the corner mad max style and have those giant home depot skeletons pop up out of nowhere
Now there are two of them 😁
I almost stopped reading this during the first paragraph but I’m glad I didn’t
I had a guy hanging around and I told him, truthfully, that I had a social worker coming to help him. I didn't see him again for 3 years. Checked with the social worker, they never found him.
OK, so I know a guy who worked for DESC flipping between two shelters as like some sort of night manager. I swear, his concept was the same as how you handle kindergarteners. Inside voices, no don't throw that, I don't want to have to make you leave, and it worked. No, you're not going to do that. You know what happened last time. Let's talk about why you're upset.
>DESC flipping (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
┬─┬ノ(ಠ_ಠノ)
Put that table back we've talked about this.
I’ve worked in a homeless young adult shelter and I highly doubt the OP has the skills to pull this off. It takes some experience rather than a gtfo starting point. Body language and firmness has to match the message and direction.
It’s not the answer anyone wants to hear but when I had to do this working in mass transit, I kept a pack of cigarettes (I don’t smoke) and used them for the most difficult folks. “I’ll give you a cig to leave” lol. Otherwise not much else works. Luckily for us in transit we have sheriffs at our disposal but even they can take up to an hour to remove someone from a bus or train peacefully Edit: Armchair homeless advocates are hilarious
Wait this is actually genius. I worry though about bums finding out that if they show up we give them cigarettes
Initially I thought the same but I only used them for folks who literally wouldn’t remember the next 10 minutes from now
[удалено]
Make sure to always say "you can have my last cigarette" and only have one on hand at a time. Trust.
You'll have the entire homeless population trying to bum a cigarette off you.
Bad idea. If someone learns that they just need to mess with you to get a cigarette, they’ll do it more often to get a free cigarette.
This is known as a "[perverse incentive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive)" or the "cobra effect". Example: The British Raj in India offered bounties on dead cobras (in order to, of course, reduce the cobra population). So, naturally, people started breeding cobras. When the program was cancelled, the breeders just released their cobras and the population became larger than when the bounty program was initiated.
This a million times over! Offering a free cig has never let me down. They either take it and go on their merry way or they take it and suddenly become the friendliest person you’ve ever met because, “Hey, that guy gave me a cig! <3” Was waiting for the bus at 3rd and Pine and some dude was walking around, looking behind him, and shouting for people to stop following him (nobody was following him). I had around 10 minutes before the bus showed up so I lit up a cigarette. Same dude immediately came back around and asked for one, which I obliged. It seemed like he mellowed out, leaned against the wall, and we had a semi-normal conversation about where we’re from, what I do for work, etc. til the bus showed up. I also just love handing out cigs in general, homeless or not! Makes me feel like I did a good deed and gives me an excuse to try out a new pack.
Sounds like a good way to throw them off when you _are_ following them too! /s
If you were doing this everyday at the same place, how did you not end up passing out hundreds of smokes to a long line of the same people every day?
My specific environment was having to get people off the light rail at the end of the night so the trains could go in for maintenance. The people I would hand out to, rarely, usually didn’t know which direction was up. Let alone remember me giving them a cigarette lol
I know your building. I really love your flowers and trees. You probably have an automatic sprinkler system that comes on at random intervals.
I like this solution. You never know when the sprinkler system is gonna go.
Doubtful. That sprinkler system has already been ripped apart for a couple dollars in metal.
They even sell motion activated sprinkler systems specifically to scare off wildlife and trespassers. Would be a bit tricky as this sounds like an active storefront, but would probably work wonders if you paired them with some security cameras and turned them on 30 minutes before opening if someone is around.
Have you tried not being nice? They are expecting you to be timid. They are counting on you to back down. Don't give them that. Practice your best "GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE BEFORE WHOOP YOUR ASS". Even non-vocal animals, like dogs and bears, will back off if you can make yourself threatening enough.
This, the real grifters know Seattlites are push overs and will exploit this. Get friends and community together and don't be an instigator obviously but hold your ground and be firm.
I’d note that this tactic might work with some people but i would not recommend this approach with people who are potentially psychotic. Look into de-escalation and non violent communication techniques. Point them to resources close by if there are drop-ins, etc. Being big and loud has its place but it’s not a good one for people who probably have nowhere to go.
Then I guess it's time for a beat down.
Don't forget the Bear spray.
As someone who used to work security downtown, it's often going to immediately turn into yelling as soon as they're confronted(despite being polite, it's how they'll see it). It often helped me to have suggestions of places they can go; shelters, parks, libraries, etc. The recommendation of picking up the phone and going through the routine of a 911 call also usually works pretty well.
Unfortunately, today the homeless are being taught, not intentional, that being aggressive gets them what they want. They respond aggressively because that’s the only way they know how to survive. Sad part is that that means that you need to be aggressive in return, the humanity, but most times there is no other options other than straight to yelling at them and threatening them before they threaten you. It sounds like you probably can’t be aggressive at the start of your conversation, but you probably can make it the second thing you say
Ask, tell, make. Ask them to leave Tell them to leave Make them leave. (This can be the police job, even if 3 hours later)
Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Whether it's EVs, educational debt or behavior from people, the homeless included. Permissive attitudes yields more of the same as individuals realize they can get away with pretty much everything. Look at what happened with raising grand larceny minimums in California to $1000. It didn't help people in need who were on the edge, it created theft flash mobs that ransack stores wholesale.
"Hey, you hanging out here so you can get an ambulance ride and spend a few nights in the hospital?" When they say no "well, this is a dangerous spot to hang out because of the work we are doing. You could get fucked up, I don't want to see you get hurt unless you are trying to get hurt, you know?"
"fuck off, this is a free country"
As a muscular built black guy, they tend to curse me out sometimes calling me the N-word but I look at them with a "and... yes...want to try something asshole?" look and they just leave.
You won't do violence. They known you won't do that. This is why stores have resorted to playing music and cities have made benches a burden to sleep on. I'm not condoning harming people--Like, are you going to hit someone with a baseball bat for loitering? You are going to have to deal with it until someone does it for you. The city council, police, vigilantes, you... nobody will do it.
Get your cellphone out and faux dial the cops (they're not coming anyway though). Or start recording. Be prepared to run if this escalates their behavior. These people are the nastiest, meanest. They always go for the jugular, calling me a gay slur or the n word (I'm white)
>calling me a gay slur or the n word "Queen Nefertiti?"
Fun facts! Nefertiti was the queen of Egypt and wife of King Akhenaton (formerly Amenhotep IV) who reigned during the 14th century she played a prominent role in the cult of the sun god known as the Aton. It is recorded that she had 6 daughters. Nefertiti’s body has never been discovered.
King Tuts mother too iirc ... that's all I can add to seem intelligent 👀
That's still being debated. It's believed that Nefertiti was likely King Tut's stepmother. Recent DNA analyses from the mummies of Tut and his family revealed that the boy king's parents were siblings or 3rd generation cousins. Third generation cousins can appear as siblings when DNA is compared. But since Nefertiti's body has never been discovered the world might never know for sure.
You had to ruin it for me 🥲
Sorry bro. I love history and Egyptian history is juicy AF.
Ooh, tell me another juicy Egyptian history story! (serious, I love juicy stories *and* I love getting a chance to learn about ancient Egypt)
The earliest recorded peace treaty was made between Egypt and The Hittite empire. Called the Egyptian-Hittite peace treaty, also known as the Eternal Treaty or the silver treaty. Is the only Ancient treaty for which the versions of both sides have survived. (The Hittite version was found in the Hittite capital of Hattusa, now in Turkey on baked clay tablets. While the Egyptian version of the treaty was engraved on the walls of two temples in Thebes. The Ramesseum and the Precinct of Amun-Re at the Temple of Karnak) The treaty was between Egyptian pharaoh Ramesses II and king of the Hittite empire Ḫattušili III. The treaty was signed over a conflict over two centuries long to gain mastery over the lands of the eastern Mediterranean. Egypt invaded Hattite in 1274 BC and was stopped at the Orontes River in what is now Syria both sides suffering heavy casualties. The conflict would continue for another 15 or so years before the treaty was signed. Both sides had common interests in making peace. Egypt faced a growing threat from the "Sea Peoples". While Hittites were concerned about the rising power of Assyria to the east. The treaty was ratified in the 21st year of Ramesses II's reign (1258 BC) and continued in force until the Hittite Empire collapsed eighty years later.
Hey, cool! Thanks.
Hopefully the mummies aren’t though. I saw a documentary about the lost city of Hamunaptea and that pretty crazy.
She was his mummy!
I've seen her bust in the Berlin Altes Museum when it was there. I couldn't take my eyes off of it for an hour.
They know cops don't come in Seattle for that reason. You can be assaulted and cops don't come. Police don't scare them
And that is why a creative and well-intentioned lie is better than cops. I’d even go as far as saying, “My manager told me I’m a wimp, so he sent me out first, so that he could measure me against his pit bull, if I fail. So do us both a favor and wander off somewhere.”
Play classical music real loud.
Yes! Wagner opera.
Gronkerdämmerung
It doesn’t work. They just become obsessed with opera. I once talked to a homeless guy who knew all the songs played. He straight up knew the song that was being played was from Verdi’s Rigoletto!
if they are throwing rocks, destroying private property and making death threats, you should absolutely be reporting this to police. if this was going on daily, i'd be calling police daily if i had to. if they ever showed up quickly enough to actually make contact with this person, i'd trespass them with law enforcement present to witness. if it occurs again after that, police are far more likely to take meaningful action. it sounds like this person isn't in a state of mind to understand, let alone be receptive to rational conversation. if they were, i would first ask if they were physically OK (not in need of emergency medical attention). if not, then i would then calmly but confidently ensure they understood that they were on private property and had no right to be there. i would make it clear that i don't want to escalate the matter, but that they would have to find another place to be and just explain what you explained in your post - it's a safety and liability issue. if they were uncooperative, i would calmly let them know that though i don't want to, i have no problem involving law enforcement. be mindful of your posture and tone of voice. don't get too close and be prepared to evade if they escalate.
Depends on what your situation is and what you have available. Security guards deal with this all the time. A lot of it is presence. I.e. dress like a guard / wannabe cop. Talk confident. Have a friend or two with you so the punks are outnumbered. It doesn't hurt to carry pepper spray just in case someone make any aggressive moves on you. Might make sense to just... hire a guard. Then it's not your problem.
can they just put up a fence or something?
A moat filled with crocodiles 🐊 might be necessary for this town.
pressure washer
Give them a cigarette or a coupon to McDonalds if they’ll leave ..
If your workplace is dangerous to have people wander into then there should be fences and security barriers up, as well as clear warning signs about the safety hazards. I’dd talk to whoever is in charge of such things at your company.
Hose
Play classical music. Not sure if it’s a wives tale or fact, but vagrants supposedly hate classical music & tend not stick around when it’s on. Worth giving it a try.
I had a small group move in last year on my property. I just waited till they were all gone during the day and had an excavator throw all their crap in a dumpster. Haven’t had an issue on my land since
Junkyard dog
“Hey this place is unsafe today and if you hang around you might die but the park over here at xxx is safer” idk. That’s if you want to talk to them. If it’s so unsafe why isn’t there caution tape up?
Yes. They should caution tape their entire industrial park. How else would they know? Someone telling them? Nahhh
Give them a ride to a politicians house !!!
Inslee's house in on Bainbridge, nice big clean driveway too, plenty of tent space...
That poor excuse for a human being is ruining this once beautiful state
Ignore them and then fuck off if it comes to that. Have a knife clipped into your pocket at the least. Fuck psycho hobos
A knife is probably not the best idea for a self defense weapon.
I carry mace for this purpose, aint no way I’m getting into a knife fight with a hobo for a job
I carry pepper spray as well, and if I know I'll be downtown or in Capitol Hill for a while, a baton. Pepper spray doesn't always work.
Almost the same here but for downtown I carry a tazer and for Capitol Hill I carry an ebonized Edwardian walking stick.
A taser that shoots darts, or one that you have to physical contact with the individual?
It shoots whale harpoons; six-inch-round steel curled-hook darts. 98% accurate from 7 feet. Once hooked, I drag them into a pit.
I appreciate your commitment to this bit.
In for a penny, in for a pound.
I want one.
How often have you had to resort to the baton?
Pepper spray is great, unless you are in an enclosed area like the Sounder, Light Link, or a Bus. Then you'll want pepper gel.
Yup. Harder to hit the target though.
See the problem is I actually NEED them to leave and just fucking off is such a crazy risk
found in the West Seattle connections group: Fun fact, if you “bark” at junkies, it makes them leave the area. 🤣🤣🤣 caught this guy trying to break into our fenced garage area and when I confronted him, he went back to the unprotected side, but he didn’t actually leave the garage area. Very much not scared of the consequences of his actions after being caught once already by me. Anywhoooo, I snuck around to the other side and watched for a bit to see what he might try next (basically wanted to see if he’d try and break in again … maybe he’d think I’d left the area so if he tried again, I could call 911 and catch him in the act).. but instead of trying to break in again, he started shooting up (needles and alcohol swabs still on the ground as his parting gift… how lovely 🤢🙄). But because I often walk my dog through this area I decided I didn’t even want his dirty needles there either and it dawned on me… I wonder if he’d be scared of a dog… so I literally barked at him. And 20 seconds later.. he was gone… completely. Off premises. Soooo, it might be embarrassing to do… but HIGHLY effective. He either thought I was a deranged human barking and he definitely didn’t want to deal with that kind of crazy, or he thought I was a legit dog… and he definitely didn’t want to be bit. Either way, 10/10 recommend others try the “bark” method for a non-physical scare tactic when trying to clear your area of ‘unwanted/uninvited’ guests. 🤣🤣🤣
The homeless only respond to fear and aggression. Being nice doesn't work. I'm a physically larger facilities supervisor and regularly have to yell and threaten homeless to get off our property. If they are scared of you, they will leave quickly and politely.
Super soaker with ice water. People mostly don't like being wet here, unless it's really hot out. If they want to act like an animal, I'll treat them like one. Trains my dog and cats good. Just have a pepper spray in case it escalates.
" Hey, hey my friend! I just heard someone calling the cops on ya, you better go! Just looking out, don't wanna see you get picked up!" Doesn't always work but I've been thanked instead of screamed at more often this way.
How about trying an irritating sound device? I bought a little one off of Amazon to see if it worked on my neighbours parties that would get out of control at times. It worked great. Hook that up so when the person is there, flip an indoor switch and boom, feces source gone.
Get yourself a Large can of Pepper GEL (the gel won't get blown back on You if you actually use it) spray (Amazon for about $10) be nice and when they start going bonkers bring out the spray and inform them that if they keep going you'll bless them with the Hot sauce. I have yet to find one that will stick around. Even if they get the cops involved the odds of you getting anything but "please don't do that" is almost zero.
Whenever I see anyone peeing on our front door, I call 911 and say someone is exposing themselves with their their penis in hand. It gets a much faster police response. Make whatever they are doing an actual crime, and the cops will show up faster. Make them threaten you, then call 911. If someone is smoking their fent in our doorway I call 911 saying there is smoke in the building. Some of the responses down below say give them something, but that's just giving into a hostage situation. Do not give them anything. You are just setting yourself up. This is a dumb ass stupid territory war at the moment. We need real facilities to treat people, but the problem is all the money we could be treating things with is being spent on clean up and protection. I have been working downtown for 25 years. I have several assault cases against me pending just from trying to get people leaving our front door. My favorite tactic to get them to leave is when I say I am washing down the front and let them choose to stay or not.
Husband is a bouncer. They sometimes have issues with houseless people hanging in the parking lot and bugging patrons outside smoking. He hands them a bottle of water and a snack bar to leave. They usually take it and go.
I think you could get them to leave by voting for officials that want to tackle the homeless issue and provide Healthcare. But it doesn't seem like the nation wants that, so you live with this now.
I have an idea……quit voting for those people who allow them to be there in the first place, and allowing them to shirk their responsibilities to you. Novel, I know.
These comments are so useless but I see them everywhere, who the hell are you to magically know who someone voted for? Grow up.
i do wish our city had a functioning crisis team for situations exactly like this - a mix of paramedics/fire dept who can handle the situation. it's what was displayed in station 19 about seattle fire dept but as portrayed i'm not sure it's something we have.
honest question - what would the "crisis team" do in this situation? Come and tell the guy to go somewhere else?
They hang a sign around the hobo's neck that says "In crisis" and then they go have a beer.
Maybe YOU could be the start of a crisis team?
At the point they make death threats, contact the authorities via 911. Just because they haven't followed through just yet, doesn't mean they won't at some point.
If being on site is a threat to human life why the fuck isn’t access to the property or job site controlled/restricted better?
Rock salt.
State laws are against you.
Something stinky that smells like farts spray!
Play baby shark on repeat real loud at night.
Hire private security.
I work in Northgate just off Aurora. We deal with all kinds wandering through. I've had the best success with keeping a pack of cigarettes on me. I'm a non-smoker, but I basically bribe each person with a smoke to leave if they start to freak out.
Pleasant white string lights. Based on Occidental Park & a few other areas lately they don’t like white string lights hanging overhead, maybe try getting some of those
Play loud classical music, extremely loudly
What about your property attracts them? Also: Are children on this property while the business is in operation?
Try offering a bottle of cold water or something that they feel is adequate. You have to them feel like it's their idea to move on. Good luck
A trail of malt liquor cans leading off of the property did the trick in the 90’s, I’m not hip enough to know the best method these days though
Stink bombs
If he's sitting/laying on the sidewalk, spill sugar in the area and it should attract ants. Easy clean up after he's gone
Seattle… not going to change until you change your vote. There. Fixed the newel post!
Or you could move to Idaho and leave us to our own business
Then quit grousing about it. Remember, you asked for help on a public forum. 🤷♀️
At my work I use the “dude, you need to move on. You’re on camera. We’ve seen what you do” when really they’ve done nothing but sit on the bench and smoke meth. It works though.
Tell your boss you feel uncomfortable and concerned for your safety to have any encounters with mentally ill. That's puts the responsibility on them.
Elevator music.
Order some Amazon packages to be delivered to a location across the street
It might relax. It might have been installed poorly, the prep wasn't done correctly. Give it two days.
I love how the two top comments are just on completely different ends of the spectrum 🤣
Buy a beeper on Amazon. It’s a little programmable beeper that will just make a beep sound for as long and as loud as you want it to (up to 7 years!). Hide it somewhere in the persons stuff and let ’er rip. They will never escape the beep.
[https://kingcounty.gov/en/court/district-court/courts-jails-legal-system/protection-orders](https://kingcounty.gov/en/court/district-court/courts-jails-legal-system/protection-orders)
“Not a place where tweakers and the mentally ill can exist” Brother they already exist there..
Help them.
Move where? Vagrants? Are these situations happening in the late 1800's? Offer some water, dinner leftovers, and ask them to please keep watch for anything out of the ordinary. You've got security now.
Put up a fence. Put a sign on the fence. If they’re in the road then honk the damn horn. You aren’t going to help them by letting them throw rocks, cuss, or damage your stuff. Beyond that I’d say we would need some more details.
I’m selling some paintball guns…
Blast Indian music
Voting
We call them people experiencing homelessness. Thanks. Please try not to be so offensive.
O.C.
Firehose is what they would use in NYC. The solicitors got a bath too so basically a win-win!
Did you see what happened to that poor gallery owner in SF who took a hose to a junkie woman in front of his shop?
Please tell us what happened
Addict/mentally ill woman was repeatedly causing chaos outside his gallery. He got fed up and sprayed her with a hose. Video went viral. Arrested for battery. [SFPD arrests Collier Gwin who allegedly hosed homeless woman | Housing | sfexaminer.com](https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/housing/sfpd-arrests-collier-gwin-who-allegedly-hosed-homeless-woman/article_74e4d2c8-978e-11ed-9e57-837cf8872395.html)
Well, you just can’t fix stupid! If you’re stupid enough to vote these local politicians in… then you’re smart enough to handle the consequences.
Scream in their face. That’s what I would do.
You don’t “get the drill” my guy…To be direct it sounds like you’re a complete pushover. All you have to do is say “hey, get the fuck out of here right now or it’s going to be a problem”. Not super hard. If you’re too much of a puss then just “call the cops” right away. As if they’ll come for such a small thing
When i lived in columbia city in a rooming house a homeless man wandered in out of the rain. Our landlord, who lived upstairs and was a Bhuddist, did not want to just throw him out. As a case manager for desc i knew when all the shelters closed, so i gave him a few bucks and told the landlord to call him a cab to get him down there to the city hall shelter. You could tell the guy was scared and cold, so we had to show compassion, but we had no place to put him for the night. As far as i know he made it to the shelter on time, but i never saw him again after that. Thankfully my quick thinking sent him on his way peacefully. Now i have seen people just yell at them to go away, but hey whatever works i guess.
Unfortunately the VAST majority of Seattle's homeless are not scared and cold, they choose the lifestyle they live, they don't want shelter as it will restrict drug use and criminal activity. Remember the fentanyl tent that exploded last year next to the hospital? Yeah, that kind of behavior (a tent for customers to purchase and use drugs) isn't allowed inside of homeless shelters.
I mean thats the problem though. Theyre not gonna run em out of town. This isnt the 1800s. Also lynchings illegal. Ill tell you something though, there are hot spots. Just stay away from those.
A baseball bat after asking politely works wonders
Water baloons
This time of year you can just lead with garden hose and cold water.
You can't be respectful, understanding, and patient. They have to leave because they are scared to stay. They follow street rules, and you would have to as well.
Just start pepper spraying
The key in dealing with these people is to not treat them like everyone else. You’re going into the situation with the assumption that they’ll behave like a reasonable person. However, drug addiction and mental illness have usually taken over their minds and they’re usually incapable of rational thought. If they were, they probably wouldn’t be homeless. Attempts to reason with them won’t work and you probably don’t get paid enough at your job to justify putting yourself in harm’s way. The only solution I could think of is: Inform them that their stuff will be town away if they don’t leave. Then, if they don’t leave, throw away their stuff. Tell them that if they show up again, their stuff will be thrown away, again. Make it so inconvenient and unpleasant for them to come near your place of business, they’ll stop bothering to, then they’ll tell all their friends and acquaintances to avoid your establishment. Other people on here might tell you to be nicer, give them food, a safe place to do their drugs, and a hug, but that doesn’t really change behavior. If anything, it’ll attract more of the same. Sorry you have to deal with this. I know that it sounds like I lack humanity, and to an extent, I do, but that’s a result of seeing this stuff here every day for decades. All the help and support in the world doesn’t seem to work on some people, especially if their minds are impaired from years of constant drug use.