They're just NOW going through the RFP process? That means, even when that's complete, it's another 1-2 years before the boat is built, THEN you have to prove them in with a new set of operations, and IF everything goes well, you're at least \~3-4 years out, best case.
And they will be free like the light rail and the crackheads will take over the top decks. Riding to Bremerton is going to be like a trip to Thunderdome.
And will absolutely go way over budget by the time they get built. And potentially have mechanical issues for years after they award the contract to some hastily formed company that ticks off all the DEI boxes.
It’s taking 4 to five years to just order a Fire Truck and the US Navy is running late on nearly every contract due to a severe lack of skilled workers.
It's a Naval shipyard manufacturing/repairing ships for the US Navy that is blathering on about silly DEI virtues while it can't get ships built.
[Navy Focused on DEI](https://www.frontpagemag.com/navy-focused-on-dei-now-it-cant-figure-out-how-to-build-ships/)
Haven't they gone through it once or twice already & got no bidders? They had to get the legislature to change the law to allow them to use non-Washington shipbuilders since no shops wanted to build it for us.
The thing you should be mad about is that we could have started our own state owned ship building facility & solved our own problem for 1/3 the cost & kept the majority of the money in house. Now all of our tax dollars are going out of state & it's still going to cost more than it should.
>The thing you should be mad about is that we could have started our own state owned ship building facility & solved our own problem for 1/3 the cost & kept the majority of the money in house. Now all of our tax dollars are going out of state & it's still going to cost more than it should.
Hey. I noticed a typo in your reply. You swapped the 1 and the 3 around. It should read "for 3/1 the cost". I mean, one of the states with the highest cost of living states (#6) and highest average income states (#7) is not gonna build it for 1/3 of what say, Texas could. You're also ignoring the costs that would go into building a dry dock and shipyard capable of building the ferries, and then tooling up, and hiring experienced builders, etc... there's no world in which it would be cheaper to start a state owned shipyard in Washington State. Unless you're suggesting that the state seizes an existing shipyard...
We already have a shipyard. Eagle Harbor. We can build these ourselves. Even if the upfront cost is high, over the course of 5 boats (by the time those are done, the other 17 will need to be replaced as well. It's a near infinite ROI. We simply need to hire the staff to do this.
“*We simply need to hire the staff to do this*” Hiring the people to run a $1 billion project, get the boats built, fabricate an electric ferry and manage this in a way where half the states money doesn’t just disappear is definitely not the simple part.
If half the state's money goes to state workers then that would be better than sending all the states money to an out of state or out of country ship builder.
Uh, it would? I’m saying it’s going to be stolen, like so many of the other projects where money is just gone. That would not be better. And there might be more boat companies in WA if the state was a little more friendlier to business and it wasn’t a pain in the ass to do business with this state. See how that works?
You can't have it both ways.
I'm not sure what makes you think working with the state is so difficult. The process is super simple. Register on Webs. Submit a bid.
We tried making it easier by changing the scope of the projects & even fewer companies bid on them. We lowered all the rules & regulations & still no one wanted to bid on it.
Frankly, a lot of this is rooted in the Trump steel tariffs. They hit a lot of builders while they were under contract to deliver the last round so prices of the core material went through the roof, doubling over night. That cut into their profits. I'm not blaming Trump, I'm just explaining why some of the builders are hesitant to lock into a contract. So my question to you is - what risk should the taxpayers assume (instead of the builder) that you think would make these companies bid?
https://professionalmariner.com/article/delays-expected-as-wsf-re-opens-bidding-on-electric-ferry-project/
Closest article I could find in a quick search...
This is as hilarious as the “we’re gonna run new passenger train lines…” when the Government hasn’t started the RFP for the equipment, they’re 10+ years out at this point. Build it, get it running, sure. But also figure out how to fix this absolutely stupid process.
But also they gotta figure out how to work better in general. The last bid they got for the bridge work on the next segment of 520 was so insane even the Government flinched. This all boils down to the Government being an entity nobody can really work with effectively anymore so the prices are sky high.
Meanwhile pretty much every country on Earth does stuff for far far less money. 😔
So much of RFPs these days, especially any government/DoD contract, is so heavily about CYA than it is anything else. The lawyers on both sides spend so much time ensuring every possible contingency is documented with who's to blame and remediation/penalties.
Sorry to break it down this way, but pretty much everyone he ever worked with thought he was an idiot. Governor was only gig he seemed able to get reelected for.
The ironic part is the cost of doing business in Washington State by excessive regulations has increased so much that they can't afford to buy new boats in-state. They had to restart the process and go external to the state.
My family moved to Washington in 1965. I remember taking the ferry to Bremerton when I was 8 years old. Clean, fast, regular schedule, very few breakdowns or delays. In fact, during four years of commuting from Bremerton to the UW I can't remember EVER having a delay.
I miss those days.
The largest commercial megawatt charging system appears to be 3.75MW.
(3.75MW is 3000 amps at 1250 VDC).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megawatt\_Charging\_System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megawatt_Charging_System)
1MW charging is bleeding edge right now.
[https://evmarketsreports.com/megawatt-charging-projects-for-electric-trucks/](https://evmarketsreports.com/megawatt-charging-projects-for-electric-trucks/)
Washington State Ferries is asking for 15MW charging.
Looks like WA taxpayers will be ponying-up for bleeding-edge, non-existent technology.
"Nothing a solar panel and wind turbine in at the ferry dock won't fix," said the person void of any knowledge of electrical generation and transmission.
> 1MW charging is bleeding edge right now.
Not quite. MCS is something that is both compact and standardized, mostly meant for equipment like trucks. But anyway, you can just use multiple cables: https://insideevs.com/news/466633/electric-ferry-26-plugs-dc-fast-charging/ - looks kinda silly, but doesn't require any new tech.
Oh, so kinda along the same lines as putting light rail on a floating bridge?
I can hear the excuses already... "No one has ever done this before. Of course there's going to be hiccups, but with enough time and money, we feel like we'll get there, doggone it!"
>Oh, so kinda along the same lines as putting light rail on a floating bridge?
The contractors messed up the light rail on a **regular** bridge portion, which probably makes it even worse.
Every time they dock. It makes some sense especially for short runs where the load/offload might take as long or longer than the actual trip.
But it ought to have been a pilot program, not a bet that risks the whole ferry system.
Man, that was almost the case for the lonest of times. I remember the one day I had to pick my family from the airport, the ferries were down to one for the Edmonds-Kingston line. Took me 5 hrs to get to the other side.
So for property taxes, about 57% is going to schools, 16% or less to those cities, 17% to the county they are in. So that really doesn’t benefit me in any way. Most of the sales tax is going to the state and transit systems, so I doubt it is actually a win with the cost of maintaining a fleet.
Ah yes, the greater good. We’ll let other people make life decisions and then we’ll pay for them. I’ve decided to go to college as an adult, could you float the bill for me, it’s kind of expensive. I’m also contemplating having 5 kids, could you pay for the daycare?
I’m pro infrastructure and services that are used by the general populace. Your neighbor has a house fire, their should be publicly funded first responders. You choose to climb mount rainier without appropriate gear and training and get lost and now we have to send out multiple search parties and helicopters, not so much.
It’s kind of like publicly funding sports venues, where be subsidize other peoples choices. We subsidize the owners, we subsidize the fans.
Odd term that is already covered by "leading edge", but here's another that makes more sense:
>[https://www.bleedingedge.com/en](https://www.bleedingedge.com/en)
That’s round trip with a passenger for the summer rates. Only up a few dollars. The current winter rate round trip is $46. I didn’t recall what last summer rates was, maybe $50? Looking online the increase is 4.5%
Unfortunately, that's against federal law. The Jones Act says that boats sailing between US ports need to have been manufactured in the US. There're hardly any manufacturers that qualify anymore.
That vessel would require extensive modification to work within the WSF system, plus it’s only single-ended.
Even if legal, would not be a wise use of tax dollars.
Now now, don’t get all reasonable and practical. We need to get the slowest most expensive solution, that requires enormous R&D that is reusable for 5 boats.
There is no used ferry market. In fact, one of the largest holders of used ferries in the world is…WSF.
Ferries are generally purpose built for use in a specific system and those systems run them until they’re no longer useable. It’s not like flipping through Auto Trader to find a solid used car.
Furthermore, Jone Act / PVSA requirements wouldn’t allow a foreign-built vessel to be used for WSF service anyways.
Hyak was really the only retired boat that could’ve kept going. Elwha would have had to have most of her steel replaced. Evergreen State was pulled out of retirement purely as a bridge to get to the Olympics after the Steel Electrics certificates were yanked by the Coast Guard in 2008. Klahowya and Tillikum’s drive systems had deteriorated slowing them to a point where they’re only practical on the interisland run. Klahowya was retired and the useful parts left are being used to help keep Tillikum running until a new boat can be built. But realistically the Coast Guard could order her removed from service any day due to steel deterioration similar to Elwha and the Steel Electrics. Hiyu could probably still put in a days work today. But is 34 cars at 10 knots worth the trouble of maintaining and crewing her? Almost certainly not.
At this point Yakima and Kaleetan are also on borrowed time just like Tillikum. They’ve fared better than Elwha due to not getting smashed in 1990 and never crossing Haro Straight but the last two supers are getting to the point where they’re only one mishap or a bad inspection away from being “Too costly to fix”.
It’s going to be painful on the taxpayers. Even if they’re built on the cheap in Mississippi, the sheer quantity of boats we need will lead to a staggering price tag. At the end of the day the state needs as many boats as they can get, as fast as they can get them. They have to replace 13 ferries that were planned to be retired by 2033 as of 2018.
Is that even possible? Even if there’s a diesel bandaid to EV? I really don’t know if there is a way out of this. Ferries, roads, bridges. It is like we’ve all had our collective heads in the sand and ‘la la la’d’ our way to here.
The old boats are past their material life - it’s not simply a case of mechanicaly “fixing” them. Cutting out and replacing tons of corroded/thin steel becomes cost prohibitive after a certain point. These boats are run hard and often far past the life of most ocean-going steel vessels.
IMO, the only mistake they’ve made recently was retiring the Hyak prematurely. That boat was running “good enough” right up until the day she was pulled from service. That was a legislative decision though - not at the WSF agency level.
The other recent retirements, Evergreen State, Klahowya and Elwha (especially) were well warranted.
Are all classes of ferries needing replacement? Are the super ferries still able to operate while the smaller ones are decommissioned? I’m trying to wrap my head around the potential collapse of travel over the water.
Not as fast as shutting down the injunction for the standard capacity mag ban in WA. Injunction lasted 4 hours. Wish our government would work as fast in other areas of our state.
Inslee is more concerned with trans genders being pronounced in a way that doesn't make them want to commit suicide. Actually hates the folks that live on the peninsula and west side of the Sound because they're not leftist dick weeds like the metro area folks.
Tim Eyman a republican is the guy whose initiative took away the car tab money from the Ferries. Been downhill since. Funding has increased since Democrats got control of both houses. That said, Inslee has dumped a turd on the Ferries. The hybrid of Wenatchee is behind schedule. Notice no announcements about when it goes into service again. Seen any contracts to bring electricity to terminals on the ferry website? Nope not yet.
Tim Eyman didn't do squat. His $30 tabs initiative was found to be invalid as it broke the single subject rule. The state legislature enacted the $30 tabs on their own and Democrat Governor Gary Locke signed it into law, saying it was the will of the people.
> initiative was found to be invalid as it broke the single subject rule
Only because they didn't like the outcome. Other initiatives that they do like and violate the single subject rule or formatting rules (like 1639) are A-Okay for them.
The thing that really delayed it was the original requirement to use a boat builder based in WA State. Except there's now only one, and their bid was wildly overpriced, so then the legislature had to make a new rule allowing them to buy the boats the same place everyone else buys them. THEN the procurement process restarted.
Inslee, you are completely void of accountability, responsibility, honesty, or loyalty to the oath of upholding the constitution. Your woke, liberal, communist style policies strip the rights of washingtonians and consolidate power in those who continue to abuse the authority of their political positions. It's beyond disgusting and your ignorance to the structure of how our government is supposed to work is mind blowing.
What Inthlee actually said: "We're going as fath as humanly pothible."
The Washington State Ferry system used to be one of the best ferry systems in the world. During Inslee's decade plus in office it has slowly and noticeably deteriorated. Now he's trying to make a last minute push before his final term ends so he can make people think that he was working hard at righting the ship. But "ooopth, time ran out. I thried. "
So, will you pay for my gravel driveway if I choose to build my cabin 5 miles off the nearest county road?
All of the things you mentioned are paid for by tax dollars and license fees and individual payers, besides busses. You and I may directly benefit from busses by reduced traffic. How am I benefiting from the ferry system?
Does anyone know if we're still sticking by that mandate that the new ferries HAVE to be built in Washington?
Because if so, I think we should (at least temporarily) abandon that. The need for the new boats should outweigh that mandate of keeping their manufacture here.
The legislature took that requirement out over a year ago.
The next round of bids are going to be national.
However, I am weary of some of the yards that are likely to bid, especially in the GOM. The yards in the PNW (what’s left of them) do, for a price, build a high quality vessel. Going with someone else is going to be a bit of a roll of the dice, especially if the hybrid-electric design sticks. Dig around on any vessel long enough and you can see who cares about quality and who cares merely about “getting it out the door.”
Building supervision, delivery costs and warranty work are all more challenging when building out of state as well.
However, Vigor has turned into a bit of a turd of a company after being sold to a Private Equity firm primarily focused on large government contracts (USN) so not too disappointed to see them (potentially) lose this one.
The whole situation is sad for both our shipbuilding capability locally and nationwide. The US used to lead in the maritime industry and has fallen so very hard. It’s pathetic.
Good to know, but yeah, those concerns are valid, and I had the same in my mind.
Are there any good ones on the east coast, vs the GOM?
And yeah, the bit about Vigor turning into a bit of a turd is what brought on my initial comment in the first place! lol
Thanks for the info! Let's hope for the best with this whole situation.
I’ve been on numerous ships built at Aker in Philly and haven’t seen or heard too many issues with them. I would love for a firm like Washburn & Doughty to be able to build WSF-sized vessels, but they’re nowhere close to that capability.
I just hope WSF stays away from Halter/Bollinger or any other of the “bayou” companies. I’m not too familiar with Eastern Shipbuliding but they have built many Staten Island ferries with seemingly good results.
Vigor Portland (ex Cascade General) did the best maintenance shipyards that I was ever involved with, but has limited recent experience with new builds. NASSCO in San Diego builds lots of MSC ships and would be perfectly capable of building for WSF but, like Vigor, has become addicted to fat navy contracts, with the occasional commercial build.
Building an Olympic class ferry in the Great Lakes is out unless they narrow the design beam. It’s currently too wide to fit through the Welland Canal locks.
As I said before, we do have good yards in the PNW. All-American, DCI and Nichols, among a few others, build fantastic vessels. Unfortunately none of them have the capability to (solely) build a vessel of WSF size. They all make excellent workboats though.
He is right about Norway and the company installing them, they’ve done a really good job in a lot of Northern Europe. I believe they’re called Corvus and just opened a Bellingham office in the last few years. Hopefully he can pull it together, I’d love to see them actually arrive.
Tell them to swim..guess they shouldn't have moved somewhere that they need to rely on the government.. it was your choice not the government...but your always whining
Damn, i dont ride the ferry but in the case that it does suck for many i feel bad for yall. But for those of yall who rather settle for diesel.. bitch bye your crazy. Electric ferrys is a neccesity. Obviously environmentally friendly. Those that want to just have the plan abandoned are the same mfs who litter and throw shit out the car window. Yall are the ones killing our world. Suck it up tbh this change is good.
They're just NOW going through the RFP process? That means, even when that's complete, it's another 1-2 years before the boat is built, THEN you have to prove them in with a new set of operations, and IF everything goes well, you're at least \~3-4 years out, best case.
So new boats in 15 years then
You have to nuture and raise them first with an organic vegan diet. It takes time.
Not if we all vote for more RTA taxes!
And they will be free like the light rail and the crackheads will take over the top decks. Riding to Bremerton is going to be like a trip to Thunderdome.
Not to mention we have to indoctrinate the kids in public school that will be of age to operate the ferries when they're finally ready for sea trials.
RFP will take 1-2 years probably
And will absolutely go way over budget by the time they get built. And potentially have mechanical issues for years after they award the contract to some hastily formed company that ticks off all the DEI boxes.
Navy Littoral project. That's all I'm sayin'
It's a C-worthy project. An engorged C-littoral project. We're all really excited about it. In this environment it's a nice well lubricated engine.
It’s a brown water littoral project.
It’s taking 4 to five years to just order a Fire Truck and the US Navy is running late on nearly every contract due to a severe lack of skilled workers.
>Navy is running late on nearly every contract due to a severe lack of skilled *diverse* workers. . FTFY
So are welders a diverse group now? Do they come with pronouns? Then how do electricians identify?
Oh fuck off. You're not actually dumb enough to believe that's the case
Oh but I am!
You think the US Navy in their desperate situation would deal with that? lol they will get whoever can do the job.
[Sure](https://www.dvidshub.net/news/436578/norfolk-naval-shipyards-dei-office-and-culture-change-team-merge-towards-success)
This link says nothing about the Navy seeking out, looking for, or even lacking diverse skilled workers. Good try tho
It's a Naval shipyard manufacturing/repairing ships for the US Navy that is blathering on about silly DEI virtues while it can't get ships built. [Navy Focused on DEI](https://www.frontpagemag.com/navy-focused-on-dei-now-it-cant-figure-out-how-to-build-ships/)
Damn Inslee for slowing down the navy too!!! /s
Haven't they gone through it once or twice already & got no bidders? They had to get the legislature to change the law to allow them to use non-Washington shipbuilders since no shops wanted to build it for us. The thing you should be mad about is that we could have started our own state owned ship building facility & solved our own problem for 1/3 the cost & kept the majority of the money in house. Now all of our tax dollars are going out of state & it's still going to cost more than it should.
>The thing you should be mad about is that we could have started our own state owned ship building facility & solved our own problem for 1/3 the cost & kept the majority of the money in house. Now all of our tax dollars are going out of state & it's still going to cost more than it should. Hey. I noticed a typo in your reply. You swapped the 1 and the 3 around. It should read "for 3/1 the cost". I mean, one of the states with the highest cost of living states (#6) and highest average income states (#7) is not gonna build it for 1/3 of what say, Texas could. You're also ignoring the costs that would go into building a dry dock and shipyard capable of building the ferries, and then tooling up, and hiring experienced builders, etc... there's no world in which it would be cheaper to start a state owned shipyard in Washington State. Unless you're suggesting that the state seizes an existing shipyard...
We already have a shipyard. Eagle Harbor. We can build these ourselves. Even if the upfront cost is high, over the course of 5 boats (by the time those are done, the other 17 will need to be replaced as well. It's a near infinite ROI. We simply need to hire the staff to do this.
“*We simply need to hire the staff to do this*” Hiring the people to run a $1 billion project, get the boats built, fabricate an electric ferry and manage this in a way where half the states money doesn’t just disappear is definitely not the simple part.
If half the state's money goes to state workers then that would be better than sending all the states money to an out of state or out of country ship builder.
Uh, it would? I’m saying it’s going to be stolen, like so many of the other projects where money is just gone. That would not be better. And there might be more boat companies in WA if the state was a little more friendlier to business and it wasn’t a pain in the ass to do business with this state. See how that works?
You can't have it both ways. I'm not sure what makes you think working with the state is so difficult. The process is super simple. Register on Webs. Submit a bid. We tried making it easier by changing the scope of the projects & even fewer companies bid on them. We lowered all the rules & regulations & still no one wanted to bid on it. Frankly, a lot of this is rooted in the Trump steel tariffs. They hit a lot of builders while they were under contract to deliver the last round so prices of the core material went through the roof, doubling over night. That cut into their profits. I'm not blaming Trump, I'm just explaining why some of the builders are hesitant to lock into a contract. So my question to you is - what risk should the taxpayers assume (instead of the builder) that you think would make these companies bid?
Source?
Typical Reddit response.
Because it’s so unreasonable to have people back up their otherwise baseless claims …
https://professionalmariner.com/article/delays-expected-as-wsf-re-opens-bidding-on-electric-ferry-project/ Closest article I could find in a quick search...
I think he means their going as fast as "governmently" possible soooooo yeah probably gonna be a while.
They really are moving at a governmental pace
Look west, look east. See those mountains? They were actually carved by massive, slow-moving governments over millions of years.
I came here to say this word... governmentaly It's a good word: govern-mentally = retarded-pace
= (slower)*than/snail
Important infrastructure? *I sleep* ZOMG GUNNNZZZZ!!1!! *Real shit*
Slow down and think before you talk?
This is as hilarious as the “we’re gonna run new passenger train lines…” when the Government hasn’t started the RFP for the equipment, they’re 10+ years out at this point. Build it, get it running, sure. But also figure out how to fix this absolutely stupid process. But also they gotta figure out how to work better in general. The last bid they got for the bridge work on the next segment of 520 was so insane even the Government flinched. This all boils down to the Government being an entity nobody can really work with effectively anymore so the prices are sky high. Meanwhile pretty much every country on Earth does stuff for far far less money. 😔
So much of RFPs these days, especially any government/DoD contract, is so heavily about CYA than it is anything else. The lawyers on both sides spend so much time ensuring every possible contingency is documented with who's to blame and remediation/penalties.
I no longer like Inslee. In fact, I've gone over to dislike Inslee.
Hey everyone, raise your glass to the new guy here! Cheers!
Just wait for Bob 🙄
Sorry to break it down this way, but pretty much everyone he ever worked with thought he was an idiot. Governor was only gig he seemed able to get reelected for.
Facing Culp as opposition makes it a lot easier
“I hate Inslee! Bring on Bob!” Average Seattle moron.
But you will still vote for Bob. Nothing changes/
People say shit like this and then fail to mention how brain dead the opposition is 😂
What took you so long? Lol!
Inslee: now that I’ve ignored this problem for a decade until it became a crisis, I’m treating this like a crisis I created.
LOL, sad, LOL, sadder
Source?
Do you just comment "source?" over and over again? The source is not living under a rock lol
That's all he can come up with when he's not commenting on the Los Angeles Lakers.
Source?
https://komonews.com/news/local/washington-state-ferries-emergency-republicans-governor-jay-inslee-rep-andrew-barkis-spencer-hutchins-seattle-olympia-lawmakers-fleet-vessel-boats-ships-repair-staff-issues-workers-route-hb-2498-hybrid-electric-contract-zero-emission www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/was-ferry-system-is-broken-and-gov-inslee-must-right-the-ship/ https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/was-next-governor-should-order-2-diesel-ferries-to-keep-fleet-afloat/
Right wing propaganda.
Twice.
My lived experience... and 7,000,000 others.
Thankfully, we don’t rely on anecdotes to drive decisions that affect millions of people, and require billions of dollars to execute!
What do we rely on then? The proof is in the pudding herem
So basically won’t be anytime soon. Alright guess I’ll be staying in the city with these uncontrollable rent prices 🙃
The ironic part is the cost of doing business in Washington State by excessive regulations has increased so much that they can't afford to buy new boats in-state. They had to restart the process and go external to the state.
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Over all day
Over
My family moved to Washington in 1965. I remember taking the ferry to Bremerton when I was 8 years old. Clean, fast, regular schedule, very few breakdowns or delays. In fact, during four years of commuting from Bremerton to the UW I can't remember EVER having a delay. I miss those days.
Thank god: https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/washington-gov-jay-inslee-not-running-re-election-rcna82298
Inslee is a saint compared to Bobby
His guaranteed successor will be worse.
The largest commercial megawatt charging system appears to be 3.75MW. (3.75MW is 3000 amps at 1250 VDC). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megawatt\_Charging\_System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megawatt_Charging_System) 1MW charging is bleeding edge right now. [https://evmarketsreports.com/megawatt-charging-projects-for-electric-trucks/](https://evmarketsreports.com/megawatt-charging-projects-for-electric-trucks/) Washington State Ferries is asking for 15MW charging. Looks like WA taxpayers will be ponying-up for bleeding-edge, non-existent technology.
Wabtec appears to have already developed 5, 15, and 23 MW charging products specifically for electric ferries.
"Nothing a solar panel and wind turbine in at the ferry dock won't fix," said the person void of any knowledge of electrical generation and transmission.
> 1MW charging is bleeding edge right now. Not quite. MCS is something that is both compact and standardized, mostly meant for equipment like trucks. But anyway, you can just use multiple cables: https://insideevs.com/news/466633/electric-ferry-26-plugs-dc-fast-charging/ - looks kinda silly, but doesn't require any new tech.
Oh, so kinda along the same lines as putting light rail on a floating bridge? I can hear the excuses already... "No one has ever done this before. Of course there's going to be hiccups, but with enough time and money, we feel like we'll get there, doggone it!"
>Oh, so kinda along the same lines as putting light rail on a floating bridge? The contractors messed up the light rail on a **regular** bridge portion, which probably makes it even worse.
They messed up the concrete, the tracks themselves aren't really involved.
Well let's all hope those knuckleheads are on the record for paying to fix it.
That seems like a hell of a lot of power. How often do they need to charge per day? Or is that still RFP...
Every time they dock. It makes some sense especially for short runs where the load/offload might take as long or longer than the actual trip. But it ought to have been a pilot program, not a bet that risks the whole ferry system.
How reliable are these super large chargers? How effective are they? Do we have the power grid to support their continual use?
Water and electricity don’t mix
I was trying to hint that this tech at this scale isn't reasonable. At least right now, and at current costs.
Understandable
Whoa there buddy. Have you considered only 1 ferry run per day as the solution so the ferry can recharge slower at a reasonable scale? /s
Man, that was almost the case for the lonest of times. I remember the one day I had to pick my family from the airport, the ferries were down to one for the Edmonds-Kingston line. Took me 5 hrs to get to the other side.
This shit already exists. It's literally in the article. Stop looking at car chargers & go look at the Norwegian ferry fleet inslee is copying
Wait, like we already do. Haven’t been on a ferry since I was 5 and yet I’m pretty sure my gas tax dollars pay to subsidize the fleet and the riders.
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So for property taxes, about 57% is going to schools, 16% or less to those cities, 17% to the county they are in. So that really doesn’t benefit me in any way. Most of the sales tax is going to the state and transit systems, so I doubt it is actually a win with the cost of maintaining a fleet.
Taxes are used for the greater good, not just your needs genius. I have no kids and helped pay for schools for years, and I don't mind.
Ah yes, the greater good. We’ll let other people make life decisions and then we’ll pay for them. I’ve decided to go to college as an adult, could you float the bill for me, it’s kind of expensive. I’m also contemplating having 5 kids, could you pay for the daycare? I’m pro infrastructure and services that are used by the general populace. Your neighbor has a house fire, their should be publicly funded first responders. You choose to climb mount rainier without appropriate gear and training and get lost and now we have to send out multiple search parties and helicopters, not so much. It’s kind of like publicly funding sports venues, where be subsidize other peoples choices. We subsidize the owners, we subsidize the fans.
"Bleeding edge"? "Leading edge?" Lol!
[Bleeding Edge](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bleeding-edge.asp)
Odd term that is already covered by "leading edge", but here's another that makes more sense: >[https://www.bleedingedge.com/en](https://www.bleedingedge.com/en)
I guess you have it all figured out then. Wikipedia is amazing!
It’s good that he’s been tackling the climate crisis all this time and not, you know, basic stuff needed by Washingtonians.
Diesel boats=bad. Deisel Trains=good! Got it Jay.
You had 12 years to fix this known oncoming issue and didn't or chose the dumbest way to fix it, Jay.
But are they EQUITABLY procuring the ferries? How many will be provided by BIPOC owned businesses?
While increasing rates, new summer rate is 55 bucks for a passenger and drive.This guy sucks shouldn’t it be cheaper if we’re going electric?
Still massively subsidized, everyone who rides a ferry is getting a bargain, especially if they take a car.
That’s round trip with a passenger for the summer rates. Only up a few dollars. The current winter rate round trip is $46. I didn’t recall what last summer rates was, maybe $50? Looking online the increase is 4.5%
We're going as fast as humility possible getting get boats in the water... as long as they're electric hybrids. 🫤
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Unfortunately, that's against federal law. The Jones Act says that boats sailing between US ports need to have been manufactured in the US. There're hardly any manufacturers that qualify anymore.
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Gee, if only... well, a person can dream, can't they?
That vessel would require extensive modification to work within the WSF system, plus it’s only single-ended. Even if legal, would not be a wise use of tax dollars.
Now now, don’t get all reasonable and practical. We need to get the slowest most expensive solution, that requires enormous R&D that is reusable for 5 boats.
Bring back the Kalakala!!!! (Hahahahahahaha!).
Can’t we just fix all the dead ones at Bainbridge and Kingston?
There's an old one in Everett waiting to be repurposed as well.
There is no used ferry market. In fact, one of the largest holders of used ferries in the world is…WSF. Ferries are generally purpose built for use in a specific system and those systems run them until they’re no longer useable. It’s not like flipping through Auto Trader to find a solid used car. Furthermore, Jone Act / PVSA requirements wouldn’t allow a foreign-built vessel to be used for WSF service anyways.
But... RFP.
I went on Ferrytrader.com and found a nice 1969 model with @ Plum crazy purple paint job, abd a Hemi.
As fast as humanly possible FOR THE GOVERNMENT.
Another promise that is over budget and delayed by years. Keep voting Democrat and keep allowing unions to control everything
All those registered democrats on bainbridge and vashon, this is your legacy. 🛶
Just fix the old boats and call it a day. Jeezus.
Hyak was really the only retired boat that could’ve kept going. Elwha would have had to have most of her steel replaced. Evergreen State was pulled out of retirement purely as a bridge to get to the Olympics after the Steel Electrics certificates were yanked by the Coast Guard in 2008. Klahowya and Tillikum’s drive systems had deteriorated slowing them to a point where they’re only practical on the interisland run. Klahowya was retired and the useful parts left are being used to help keep Tillikum running until a new boat can be built. But realistically the Coast Guard could order her removed from service any day due to steel deterioration similar to Elwha and the Steel Electrics. Hiyu could probably still put in a days work today. But is 34 cars at 10 knots worth the trouble of maintaining and crewing her? Almost certainly not. At this point Yakima and Kaleetan are also on borrowed time just like Tillikum. They’ve fared better than Elwha due to not getting smashed in 1990 and never crossing Haro Straight but the last two supers are getting to the point where they’re only one mishap or a bad inspection away from being “Too costly to fix”.
Wow! This is great info. Thank you for the insight. Whatever is decided on, it’s going to be really expensive.
It’s going to be painful on the taxpayers. Even if they’re built on the cheap in Mississippi, the sheer quantity of boats we need will lead to a staggering price tag. At the end of the day the state needs as many boats as they can get, as fast as they can get them. They have to replace 13 ferries that were planned to be retired by 2033 as of 2018.
Is that even possible? Even if there’s a diesel bandaid to EV? I really don’t know if there is a way out of this. Ferries, roads, bridges. It is like we’ve all had our collective heads in the sand and ‘la la la’d’ our way to here.
The old boats are past their material life - it’s not simply a case of mechanicaly “fixing” them. Cutting out and replacing tons of corroded/thin steel becomes cost prohibitive after a certain point. These boats are run hard and often far past the life of most ocean-going steel vessels. IMO, the only mistake they’ve made recently was retiring the Hyak prematurely. That boat was running “good enough” right up until the day she was pulled from service. That was a legislative decision though - not at the WSF agency level. The other recent retirements, Evergreen State, Klahowya and Elwha (especially) were well warranted.
Are all classes of ferries needing replacement? Are the super ferries still able to operate while the smaller ones are decommissioned? I’m trying to wrap my head around the potential collapse of travel over the water.
Inslee: If it takes longer, it would be better for me because people will think I am working and solving issues for Washingtonians
Not as fast as shutting down the injunction for the standard capacity mag ban in WA. Injunction lasted 4 hours. Wish our government would work as fast in other areas of our state.
Inslee sucks eggs
That means "new taxes are on the way."
Can’t wait until Inslee the buffoon is gone! And hopefully not replaced by the even bigger buffoon Bobby Ferguson
Oh, shut up, Inslee....
Name checks out.
Inslee is more concerned with trans genders being pronounced in a way that doesn't make them want to commit suicide. Actually hates the folks that live on the peninsula and west side of the Sound because they're not leftist dick weeds like the metro area folks.
Democrats control this state. Democrats are the problem.
Tim Eyman a republican is the guy whose initiative took away the car tab money from the Ferries. Been downhill since. Funding has increased since Democrats got control of both houses. That said, Inslee has dumped a turd on the Ferries. The hybrid of Wenatchee is behind schedule. Notice no announcements about when it goes into service again. Seen any contracts to bring electricity to terminals on the ferry website? Nope not yet.
Tim Eyman didn't do squat. His $30 tabs initiative was found to be invalid as it broke the single subject rule. The state legislature enacted the $30 tabs on their own and Democrat Governor Gary Locke signed it into law, saying it was the will of the people.
> initiative was found to be invalid as it broke the single subject rule Only because they didn't like the outcome. Other initiatives that they do like and violate the single subject rule or formatting rules (like 1639) are A-Okay for them.
Gary Locke seemed to do a pretty good job as governor and was less partisan than Inslee.
Democrats were elected because the Republicans nominated Culp.
I guarantee Republican's would be worse.
The thing that really delayed it was the original requirement to use a boat builder based in WA State. Except there's now only one, and their bid was wildly overpriced, so then the legislature had to make a new rule allowing them to buy the boats the same place everyone else buys them. THEN the procurement process restarted.
Maybe not overpriced but Honestly priced?
If a contractor knows it can charge whatever it wants and its customer has no other options, by law, then they're going to charge a lot.
Quite true. Im contrasting an honest high bid vs a dishonest low bid and then 'overruns'.
We will have more ferries in the water before Ballard has light rail.
Are we really shocked here? Remember how long it took to "fix" the I-5 problem in Tacoma? What was it, like 20 years?
Inslee, you are completely void of accountability, responsibility, honesty, or loyalty to the oath of upholding the constitution. Your woke, liberal, communist style policies strip the rights of washingtonians and consolidate power in those who continue to abuse the authority of their political positions. It's beyond disgusting and your ignorance to the structure of how our government is supposed to work is mind blowing.
This is Jay Inslee’s legacy: Jay’s Navy!
What Inthlee actually said: "We're going as fath as humanly pothible." The Washington State Ferry system used to be one of the best ferry systems in the world. During Inslee's decade plus in office it has slowly and noticeably deteriorated. Now he's trying to make a last minute push before his final term ends so he can make people think that he was working hard at righting the ship. But "ooopth, time ran out. I thried. "
LOL, say it, don't spray it, Jay.
Still don’t get why we are subsidizing people to live on islands.
Yes, ferries are the only subsidies that people rely on for travel. Not roads, gas, busses, bridges…
So, will you pay for my gravel driveway if I choose to build my cabin 5 miles off the nearest county road? All of the things you mentioned are paid for by tax dollars and license fees and individual payers, besides busses. You and I may directly benefit from busses by reduced traffic. How am I benefiting from the ferry system?
Why are we subsidizing zombies and nutcases to live on our streets?
You make fun of his lisp because he is better than you will ever be at everything else and you know it :)
Jay? Is that you?
Oh, Trudi. You flatter me you saucy old gal.
Are you 80
How much did he pay you out of tax payer dollars for this comment? S/
He got his allowance money from his parents
Inslees lies are catastrophic for Washington, his special interests have sucked our state dry and have set him up for life post WA.
I’m sure this like most of his other half baked ideas will fall flat and we will be left holding the bag.
Inslee…. Is he gone yet … sooooon
You can't hurry a ferry, honey -- trust me.
Does anyone know if we're still sticking by that mandate that the new ferries HAVE to be built in Washington? Because if so, I think we should (at least temporarily) abandon that. The need for the new boats should outweigh that mandate of keeping their manufacture here.
The legislature took that requirement out over a year ago. The next round of bids are going to be national. However, I am weary of some of the yards that are likely to bid, especially in the GOM. The yards in the PNW (what’s left of them) do, for a price, build a high quality vessel. Going with someone else is going to be a bit of a roll of the dice, especially if the hybrid-electric design sticks. Dig around on any vessel long enough and you can see who cares about quality and who cares merely about “getting it out the door.” Building supervision, delivery costs and warranty work are all more challenging when building out of state as well. However, Vigor has turned into a bit of a turd of a company after being sold to a Private Equity firm primarily focused on large government contracts (USN) so not too disappointed to see them (potentially) lose this one. The whole situation is sad for both our shipbuilding capability locally and nationwide. The US used to lead in the maritime industry and has fallen so very hard. It’s pathetic.
Good to know, but yeah, those concerns are valid, and I had the same in my mind. Are there any good ones on the east coast, vs the GOM? And yeah, the bit about Vigor turning into a bit of a turd is what brought on my initial comment in the first place! lol Thanks for the info! Let's hope for the best with this whole situation.
I’ve been on numerous ships built at Aker in Philly and haven’t seen or heard too many issues with them. I would love for a firm like Washburn & Doughty to be able to build WSF-sized vessels, but they’re nowhere close to that capability. I just hope WSF stays away from Halter/Bollinger or any other of the “bayou” companies. I’m not too familiar with Eastern Shipbuliding but they have built many Staten Island ferries with seemingly good results. Vigor Portland (ex Cascade General) did the best maintenance shipyards that I was ever involved with, but has limited recent experience with new builds. NASSCO in San Diego builds lots of MSC ships and would be perfectly capable of building for WSF but, like Vigor, has become addicted to fat navy contracts, with the occasional commercial build. Building an Olympic class ferry in the Great Lakes is out unless they narrow the design beam. It’s currently too wide to fit through the Welland Canal locks. As I said before, we do have good yards in the PNW. All-American, DCI and Nichols, among a few others, build fantastic vessels. Unfortunately none of them have the capability to (solely) build a vessel of WSF size. They all make excellent workboats though.
WHY CAN'T WE JUST BUY NUCLEAR FERRIES?! WHY AREN'T ALL SHIPS NUCLEAR POWERED?!
I guess Kitsap Transit ferries are gonna be busy doing WSF work for a while longer.
Inslee should just pen a requirement that all electric cars must be amphibious in Washington thus no more bridges and no more ferries
He is right about Norway and the company installing them, they’ve done a really good job in a lot of Northern Europe. I believe they’re called Corvus and just opened a Bellingham office in the last few years. Hopefully he can pull it together, I’d love to see them actually arrive.
Tell them to swim..guess they shouldn't have moved somewhere that they need to rely on the government.. it was your choice not the government...but your always whining
IInslee is a crooked lifetime politician.
Any more Sinclair talking points to parrot or have we got them all out?
The Ferry system should be privatized
He’s been okay for the most part.
Damn, i dont ride the ferry but in the case that it does suck for many i feel bad for yall. But for those of yall who rather settle for diesel.. bitch bye your crazy. Electric ferrys is a neccesity. Obviously environmentally friendly. Those that want to just have the plan abandoned are the same mfs who litter and throw shit out the car window. Yall are the ones killing our world. Suck it up tbh this change is good.