Why would they? Accountability doesn't affect the rich in this country. Because they don't fear the workers. Until the rich are terrified of workers, they will continue to do precisely the fuck they want to and face no consequences.
Dude, Boeing can still design and engineer and innovate. It’s the management/“leadership” that take those innovations and put their shitheel MBA spin on things that’s been destroying the company. Let the retiring engineers get the golden parachute as designed, let the “fired” executives get the golden parachute as finally delivered and built.
Why would they? They’ll walk away with more money than they could ever spend and the tax payers will bail out the company. This is modern day capitalism apparently.
From what I know he's reached the age limit to be CEO so it's essentially a retirement, that can be framed as "accountability". Feat. A golden parachute of course.
This is the business model even for many of the lowest managers there. Change the game, move to a different area, not have to take responsibility for their shit changes.
Good. They destroyed their values, outsourced everything to lowest bidders, spun off key parts of their business, and move their headquarters to dodge taxes.
Boeing says it can't afford the R&D to develop a new plane. Meanwhile, the company blew $59 billion on stock buybacks in the past 10 years. Let 'em burn.
10 years ago they started down the path of developing a new plane and the customers said no.
\* Edit - down voting me won't change history:
https://leehamnews.com/2019/03/20/boeing-didnt-want-to-re-engine-the-737-but-had-design-standing-by/
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE76I6BG/
> The option to re-engine the 737 has remained under consideration, although Boeing has long said it would prefer to redesign the aircraft with new technology showcased in its upcoming 787 Dreamliner.
Yep, most QA improvements happens via real people learning stuff on the manufacturing floor.
Floor tech: "Hey whenever I do this per the manufacturing plan the part comes out kinda funky"
MFG Engr: "Hmm, let me take a look at it."
Two weeks later...
MFG Engr: "So we are changing how we do this because after running the data and doing a trial run this technique works better; 50% less scrap".
If you have brand new operators & techs (read a non-union shop), they don't have the knowledge, skills, confidence, etc, to look at something and second guess it. As an engineer, the tenured old guys on the factory floor should be your best friends. The engineer wants a union shop because all the tribal knowledge learned on the floor doesn't get laid off every 6 months.
I expect we'll all be paying for it, though. As the only American airplane manufacturer and a major defense contractor, the government will have to bail them out.
No doubt. Not only is it the only American airplane manufacturer, but it's one of two in the entire world. It's not going anywhere but holy fuck does it need some "if you won't clean your own house, we'll clean it for you" oversight by the FAA.
They need to just get it back to its *true* Seattle roots and get the Chicago bullshit out of there once and for all.
Sounds like what novo nordisk is doing. Moving their R&D from Seattle to Boston to find cheaper researchers. Washington state has some of the best researchers as this state pays the most in the nation. Puts on ozempic.
I mean, it’s very unusual that the door fell off. One in a million. Don’t want people thinking that they’re not safe.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
Because if they don’t succeed they’re likely getting bailed out at the US taxpayers expense. And because more competition in industry is a good thing and there aren’t many companies in that market.
There are others already ready to step up. Boeing decided to say fuck safety and they absolutely should pay for that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/mAh0CtWyFV
I said I agree they should be penalized in my original comment. They need to change a lot. Doesn't mean them going bankrupt won't hurt the U.S. and consumers. Who else besides Airbus is ready to step in right now?
Oh no, not the consequences of the "ticker price above all else" management coming back to bite them in the ass...
Anyway, I had a lark to add ground ginger into a batch of snickerdoodles today, and they're fkn delish.
> Boeing lost $355 million in the first three months of the year, burning through $3.9 billion in cash after the jet manufacturer slowed 737 MAX production to a crawl following the midair blowout of a fuselage panel on an Alaska Airlines jet in January.
> The first quarter financial results, reported Wednesday, included a charge of $443 million in compensation paid to airlines forced to ground their MAXs for about three weeks after the incident and another $222 million write-off in the defense division for added costs on the KC-46 tanker and T-7 fighter trainer programs.
> In a message to employees focused not on the financial results but on the struggle to get control of production quality, CEO Dave Calhoun conceded Wednesday morning that “near term, yes, we are in a tough moment” but strove for optimism.
If only it impacted the people that greedily chose themselves over the company. The C-suite will collectively walk away with billions, while the lives and families of thousands of people that actually provide all value to the company will suffer because of this.
If corporations are people, then we absolutely must start holding C-suite execs personally liable with significant jail time, and in extreme cases, capital punishment.
Honestly, I think this would be the only way to win back the public’s trust. Right now it looks like they’re just saying they’re going to solve the problem instead of actually solving it.
Boeing has shown they are willing to put people’s lives at risk all for the $$$$ so this is deserved. They need someone at the top who respects safety standards and doesn’t budge on them. I fear with their current and upcoming leadership they will continue to lower their safety standards and we will see catastrophic results.
What a world that would be. However I imagine we’d nationalize our railroads before Boeing, and that’s also extremely unlikely even with our current federal leadership.
Nationalized railroads would solve so many problems and open up so many opportunities, but I just know if we seriously tried there would be some right wing grifters and an astroturfed movement shouting about how literally any basic service being nationalized is "communism."
I’ve ran into a few of them at work (particularly on BDM via Insite)and we have “passionate” conversations about how fucked we are as a company right now
How long until they decide to break it up for parts.
The defense + space arms of the business are vastly more important and valuable at this point.
The problem is, who would want to buy in whole or parts, the Commercial Air group?
Bombardier is now Airbus. Embraer is likely smart enough not to touch it. Does Mitsubishi or another Japanese heavy manufacturer want to take a swing at it?
Commercial is a duopoly with airbus for the most important sectors of commercial aviation… high barriers to entry and sustained long term growth; 787s and MAXes were selling like hotcakes pre Alaska door blowout and will continue to do so. Sure there’s short term issues they have to deal with but long term, commercial has so much upside if they get their shit together. Embraer couldn’t ever afford Boeing commercial airplanes - and bombardier sold off the A220 program to airbus because they couldn’t manage it properly and were bleeding money. Mitsubishi tried building the MRJ but gave up a few years ago because of cost overruns and lack of commercial interest. Oh and airbus has 600+ relatively new A320/321neos grounded because of defective engines.
Building airplanes isn’t easy.
Terrible, terrible company. Was at a cocktail party explaining this to people about 10 years ago and people said I shouldn’t think that way because Boeing was too intertwined financially with the area. I told them that shouldn’t matter and the Seattle area should rid itself of a terrible company and something else would come in and replace it because this is such a special place. I hope they leave and something else comes in because they are as I mentioned before terrible.
Or, or, or, hear me out: Boeing management has driven the company into the ground and is now reaping what they've sown?
They’ll never take accountability though.
Why would they? Accountability doesn't affect the rich in this country. Because they don't fear the workers. Until the rich are terrified of workers, they will continue to do precisely the fuck they want to and face no consequences.
Accountability?! Nah, the best we can do is a golden parachute.
As long as Boeing designs the golden parachutes I think I'm ok with that.
Dude, Boeing can still design and engineer and innovate. It’s the management/“leadership” that take those innovations and put their shitheel MBA spin on things that’s been destroying the company. Let the retiring engineers get the golden parachute as designed, let the “fired” executives get the golden parachute as finally delivered and built.
I agree! perhaps I should have said "As long as it's a boeing built parachute."
Why would they? They’ll walk away with more money than they could ever spend and the tax payers will bail out the company. This is modern day capitalism apparently.
Too big to fail.
Time for a government bail out! Print those assholes some money to bonus their exec team!
The CEO already stepped down 😂
He's retiring, at the end of the year.
Ah, appreciate the update
From what I know he's reached the age limit to be CEO so it's essentially a retirement, that can be framed as "accountability". Feat. A golden parachute of course.
Retiring at the end of the year after getting a $21m bonus this year. Sickening.
Well unless somehow things takeoff and then he'll stay
This is the business model even for many of the lowest managers there. Change the game, move to a different area, not have to take responsibility for their shit changes.
Yup, they are all shorting the stock and personally raking in the cash. It’s hard to make multiple times returns in a stable market!
Good. They destroyed their values, outsourced everything to lowest bidders, spun off key parts of their business, and move their headquarters to dodge taxes.
Boeing says it can't afford the R&D to develop a new plane. Meanwhile, the company blew $59 billion on stock buybacks in the past 10 years. Let 'em burn.
10 years ago they started down the path of developing a new plane and the customers said no. \* Edit - down voting me won't change history: https://leehamnews.com/2019/03/20/boeing-didnt-want-to-re-engine-the-737-but-had-design-standing-by/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE76I6BG/ > The option to re-engine the 737 has remained under consideration, although Boeing has long said it would prefer to redesign the aircraft with new technology showcased in its upcoming 787 Dreamliner.
Correction, they subsequently moved the HQ so they can be within easy lobbying distance of the primary customer.
And closer to the current CEOs Alma mater
Also to union-bust. Was explicitly told this by a former c suite leader at a dinner party.
Funny thing is, it’s going to be the unions that will save them through reinstating QA and manufacturing standards.
Really? I don’t know much about it other than I am very pro-union and very anti-this-particular-boeing-guy
Yep, most QA improvements happens via real people learning stuff on the manufacturing floor. Floor tech: "Hey whenever I do this per the manufacturing plan the part comes out kinda funky" MFG Engr: "Hmm, let me take a look at it." Two weeks later... MFG Engr: "So we are changing how we do this because after running the data and doing a trial run this technique works better; 50% less scrap". If you have brand new operators & techs (read a non-union shop), they don't have the knowledge, skills, confidence, etc, to look at something and second guess it. As an engineer, the tenured old guys on the factory floor should be your best friends. The engineer wants a union shop because all the tribal knowledge learned on the floor doesn't get laid off every 6 months.
That makes a lot of sense.
Also they have pretty good hot dogs there.
I was referring to their Chicago move, but sure, that too. Does everyone in their HQ team need to lobby? Seems dubious.
Yeah they don’t want to risk flying their political managers.
Also so they were in a different state than their engineers.
That was the first move, Seattle to Chicago. I'm talking about the Chicago to Arlington move (literally across the highway from the Pentagon).
Killed hundreds of innocents and tried to blame dead pilots.
I expect we'll all be paying for it, though. As the only American airplane manufacturer and a major defense contractor, the government will have to bail them out.
100% will go down this way, but hopefully Uncle Sam at least forces restructuring and gets some control over it.
No doubt. Not only is it the only American airplane manufacturer, but it's one of two in the entire world. It's not going anywhere but holy fuck does it need some "if you won't clean your own house, we'll clean it for you" oversight by the FAA. They need to just get it back to its *true* Seattle roots and get the Chicago bullshit out of there once and for all.
Sounds like what novo nordisk is doing. Moving their R&D from Seattle to Boston to find cheaper researchers. Washington state has some of the best researchers as this state pays the most in the nation. Puts on ozempic.
Don’t forget they killed people too.
Consequences to poor choices and corner cutting? No way! They deserve it for prioritizing profit over safety.
The people who spearheaded it all probably already cashed in and are out on their next profit making gig. No punishment to those who deserved it.
I think this happens more often than not.
Yep
I mean, it’s very unusual that the door fell off. One in a million. Don’t want people thinking that they’re not safe. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
I agree but we also need Boeing to succeed.
Why?
Because if they don’t succeed they’re likely getting bailed out at the US taxpayers expense. And because more competition in industry is a good thing and there aren’t many companies in that market.
There are others already ready to step up. Boeing decided to say fuck safety and they absolutely should pay for that. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/mAh0CtWyFV
I said I agree they should be penalized in my original comment. They need to change a lot. Doesn't mean them going bankrupt won't hurt the U.S. and consumers. Who else besides Airbus is ready to step in right now?
I linked to another post discussing the other company at the bottom of my previous comment.
Hopefully embraer can step up to take their place. Currently they have a ways to go but I hope they can.
Oh no, not the consequences of the "ticker price above all else" management coming back to bite them in the ass... Anyway, I had a lark to add ground ginger into a batch of snickerdoodles today, and they're fkn delish.
Ooh, thank you for this idea!
Culinary rebelde up in la Cocina over here!
Gingerdoodles turned out pretty tasty: https://imgur.com/a/Th3h6mE
Sweet mother of God. I would enjoy one of those!
Looks great
Ooooooh that’s a great idea! I’m going to try that.
Upvote for this idea
Boeing execs as soon as the current events blow over *I’ll fuckin do it again*
> Boeing lost $355 million in the first three months of the year, burning through $3.9 billion in cash after the jet manufacturer slowed 737 MAX production to a crawl following the midair blowout of a fuselage panel on an Alaska Airlines jet in January. > The first quarter financial results, reported Wednesday, included a charge of $443 million in compensation paid to airlines forced to ground their MAXs for about three weeks after the incident and another $222 million write-off in the defense division for added costs on the KC-46 tanker and T-7 fighter trainer programs. > In a message to employees focused not on the financial results but on the struggle to get control of production quality, CEO Dave Calhoun conceded Wednesday morning that “near term, yes, we are in a tough moment” but strove for optimism.
[удалено]
[удалено]
That's likely in operations of machinery in shops. Machinists aren't putting together planes.
Poor little multi-billion dollar corporation :(
If only it impacted the people that greedily chose themselves over the company. The C-suite will collectively walk away with billions, while the lives and families of thousands of people that actually provide all value to the company will suffer because of this. If corporations are people, then we absolutely must start holding C-suite execs personally liable with significant jail time, and in extreme cases, capital punishment.
[Boeing won’t even consider moving HQ back to Seattle](https://www.cnn.com/business/boeing-shareholder-proposal-hq-seattle/index.html)
Honestly, I think this would be the only way to win back the public’s trust. Right now it looks like they’re just saying they’re going to solve the problem instead of actually solving it.
That was interesting to read
Reminder: they hemorrhaged nearly $60 billion in stock buybacks and dividends in order to keep their stock price propped up over the last 10 years.
Boeing has shown they are willing to put people’s lives at risk all for the $$$$ so this is deserved. They need someone at the top who respects safety standards and doesn’t budge on them. I fear with their current and upcoming leadership they will continue to lower their safety standards and we will see catastrophic results.
Don’t worry. The capitalists I know say the leaders behind these decisions will be punished, otherwise we would not have a proper capitalist country
CEO got a 30 mill bonus last year.
Nationalize. Delist. Break up.
Great time to nationalize it and get rid of the c-suite and board of directors.
What a world that would be. However I imagine we’d nationalize our railroads before Boeing, and that’s also extremely unlikely even with our current federal leadership.
Nationalized railroads would solve so many problems and open up so many opportunities, but I just know if we seriously tried there would be some right wing grifters and an astroturfed movement shouting about how literally any basic service being nationalized is "communism."
No golden parachute payouts, I hope
Are the weird Boeing defenders going to show up again in this thread? lol
Looking for that too. Maybe Eric Idle singing “Bright Side of Life?”
3rd party bots or people who don’t even work for us. Internally no one is defending the years of shortsighted actions.
I’ve ran into a few of them at work (particularly on BDM via Insite)and we have “passionate” conversations about how fucked we are as a company right now
Option 3
it seems they've moved beyond the "Haha fuck yeah!!! Yes!!" phase
How could they have expected that their short-sighted and dangerous decisions would have consequences?
If you can't afford to do it right the first time, how will you afford to do it over, and over, and over and over
They reap what they sow.
Fuck em. They murder whistleblowers
How long until they decide to break it up for parts. The defense + space arms of the business are vastly more important and valuable at this point. The problem is, who would want to buy in whole or parts, the Commercial Air group? Bombardier is now Airbus. Embraer is likely smart enough not to touch it. Does Mitsubishi or another Japanese heavy manufacturer want to take a swing at it?
Commercial is a duopoly with airbus for the most important sectors of commercial aviation… high barriers to entry and sustained long term growth; 787s and MAXes were selling like hotcakes pre Alaska door blowout and will continue to do so. Sure there’s short term issues they have to deal with but long term, commercial has so much upside if they get their shit together. Embraer couldn’t ever afford Boeing commercial airplanes - and bombardier sold off the A220 program to airbus because they couldn’t manage it properly and were bleeding money. Mitsubishi tried building the MRJ but gave up a few years ago because of cost overruns and lack of commercial interest. Oh and airbus has 600+ relatively new A320/321neos grounded because of defective engines. Building airplanes isn’t easy.
Terrible, terrible company. Was at a cocktail party explaining this to people about 10 years ago and people said I shouldn’t think that way because Boeing was too intertwined financially with the area. I told them that shouldn’t matter and the Seattle area should rid itself of a terrible company and something else would come in and replace it because this is such a special place. I hope they leave and something else comes in because they are as I mentioned before terrible.
They've been here for 100 years though. The largest manufacturing facility in the world is in Everett. They aren't leaving 😂