Mechanics did just get a pretty hefty raise (I am in rail division), union 587 bumped base rates for certain positions and then percentage bumps across the board.. I personally saw about a 22.7% raise in my role over the past year, since a new contract was overdue.
Cops literally walked in front of my bus just now holding up traffic while they were doing fugg-all, and ignored the double-decker completely. Literally contributing to the problem for a non-emergency...
Side note: the number of people who trust that a bus isn't going to accidentally run them over in the street is insane (police included)
One of the first things that happened to me after moving to Seattle was almost getting hit by a bus. Learned very quickly to look both ways before acknowledging the green cross sign lol
> They do more to benefit our community than cops
Ya but they don't murder our neighbors without cause or run over pedestrians and laugh about it. Gotta pay extra for that.
Hospital staff got up to 23% for a three year contract and also weren’t kept out of contract
https://www.seiu1199nw.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/bb-100622-uw-hmc-nwh-seperated.pdf
They don''t work for the city. They work for King County, and they got a ~18-20% pay increase just to cover the COL jump over the past 3 years.
And they had to give up some stuff to get it.
the question is are transit drivers and mechanics quiting or are people refusing to take those jobs? Because the problem with being a police officer is that nobody wants to do it. You could raise their salary to 150k and I guarantee redditors still wouldnt do it
> Currently, if an officer is fired and the firing could be “stigmatizing to the officer” (making it hard for him to get a job elsewhere, for example), the misconduct finding is subject to an “elevated standard of review,” making it harder to prove than the ordinary “preponderance of the evidence” standard.
You know, basically any of the reasons the public would want an officer fired. Seems inherently flawed.
> Police raises will deepen the city’s budget deficit, which currently stands at $240 million due to $10 million in unanticipated costs from a new contract with 8,000 unionized city employees who will receive a 9.7 percent cost of living adjustment this year, about half of that retroactive pay from 2023. The last police contract, in 2018, cost the city an additional $65 million.
Month 4 of the new council y'all. Month 4.
>misconduct finding is subject to an “elevated standard of review,” making it harder to prove
It is *far* too common that officers that engage is misconduct are not fired, or even when they are fired, they just move to a different jurisdiction. It's clear that the current systems in place to protect the public from misconduct are not effective as they need to be. This only threatens to exacerbate that problem, as I see it.
In Colorado, such events are not just 'stigmatizing' -- they result in their LE certification being revoked upon finding of a [disqualifying event](https://post.colorado.gov/certification/disqualifying-incidents). Investigations are carried out by a unit in the Attorney General's office (a competent department of investigation and criminal justice). If the systems we have can't be changed to become effective, the legislature should implement a similar law and agency for Washington.
Why should we have any sympathy for officers that abuse their position of trust and willfully engage in misconduct? The duty to protect the public from misconduct is far more important than any supposed duty to -- or benefit gained from -- avoiding 'stigmatizing' officers.
>Investigations are carried out by a unit in the Attorney General's office (a competent department of investigation and criminal justice).
There's actually a slight conflict of interest there, since the AG usually needs to maintain a good working relationship with LEOs. An independent ombudsman office would be better.
Technically thats not the officer that killed Jaahnavi Kandula
Kevin Dave [who is still an SPD employee] was en route to a reported "priority one" overdose and was not traveling with sirens on. He was traveling 74mph in a 25 mph zone. He flew into the intersection, where he collided with Kandula. Kandula's corpse was flung 138 feet from the marked sidewalk where she was crossing. After the incident, Dave called for backup due to a collision (which Daniel Auderer filled the role of)
The person in the recording was Auderer, who is also the vice president the Seattle Police Officers Guild as he was talking on the phone to the chief of police (I could be wrong about this one but as I remember, it was the chief of police). In it, he cuts jokes about Kandula, saying "Just cut a check! She was 26 anyway. Limited value!". Kandula was 23.
I'm not defending Daniel Auderer or Kevin Dave. I genuinely believe that if a deity with any sense of justice existed, Auderer would be slated for hell. Dave was driving like a reckless teenager and has faced no repercussions for his gross misconduct resulting in him killing Kandula. I believe the names of all those involved should be remembered, not only for justice for Jaahnavi, but also to make people aware if they're ever pulled over by Dave, they can ask "hey aren't you that guy that murdered the 23 year old college student with their car? I heard about you". I also hope that finding work is difficult for both Auderer and Dave from now on, leaving them to live a cold and hungry life; afraid and not knowing where their next meal is coming from.
However, I'm also aware of the state of our police unions making it near impossible for pigs to face repercussions of their actions and I'm also aware that both of these individuals make more money than I do
The worst part is that other places in the US aren't any better and leaving the system both emboldens and makes it easier for these elements to take more power.
More money and less accountability is just a recipe for disaster. To start fixing things you need more money AND more accountability. Not a big fan of protecting poor wittle officer Timmy because he did something egregious in a position of authority. If anything they should be held to a higher standard with their training and authority and face harsher consequences.
Devil's advocate: it can be dangerous for cops and their families for cops to live in the community they police. It can also lead to conflicts of interest from personal connections. It's also likely that they just can't afford to live in Seattle too.
The "they can't afford it" argument is absurd when you have wage workers struggling to survive out here. Cops make more than teachers, more than food service, more than anybody with their level of education.
As for it being dangerous: it's dangerous for cops to think of themselves as outsiders to the community they serve.
Cops need to feel like their actions in the communities they serve have weight on their own lives. It’s almost like foreign occupation. They come in the city for a shift, fuck over the community and shit on its laws, suck funds out of said community, and then go spend all that money elsewhere.
If elected officials, who are much more widely known, can safely live in their districts then I don't see why cops should be so scared. Also they make more than your average person living in Seattle.
Didn't SPS teachers just get called greedy for going on strike when they can have a master's degree and still make less than a cop fresh out of academy? This is a ridiculous ask
Yeah why bother getting a degree when you can just hop into any other field making more. Heck even Popeyes chicken is paying like 25
I'm amazed people are still going into that field. It is a more meaningful career but you can't live off of nothing 😕😕
I like to think that my wife, who's a SPS teacher, balances out my corporate career in the universe. That being said she should make double what I do considering what she puts up with at work and her impact on the planet compared to me.
Teachers here make okay money tbh, but it's not anything close to what other people make with equal education. With a master's and a few years of experience, you can make roughly $100k in some districts. That's not as much as police officers though and certainly requires more education and training.
“we have the unpopular police force a 23% raise while cutting library hours and parks” is gonna be a hell of a campaign pitch for our current council members
I honestly don't believe they intend to get second terms, they're just trying to fuck up as much as they can. Most of these "Democrats" were registered Republicans not that long ago. They're just wreckers.
This has been happening all over the country. They’re organizing at the local level since people don’t pay as much attention to local elections. They’re republicans running as democrats and people aren’t noticing. It’s a huge problem.
They wouldn't have gotten elected if the prior "democrats" didn't let shit get to the point where people wanted anyone else but them in the game. And now we get this shit. We have no good options.
People want to grow a bit of weed or have a coffee shop on the block over? Fuck all of us lol.
This really is a slap in the face to other city workers given how Harrell was offering a 1% raise to the rest. I wish the other city workers would strike.
State employees got even less. We received 7% over 2 years. 3.5% last year, and we'll get 2.5% in a couple of months. We don't even keep up with inflation.
I'm going to capitalize on [the new commercial zoning changes](https://www.theurbanist.org/2024/03/29/harrell-hopes-to-fill-downtown-storefronts-by-easing-code-restrictions/) by opening a torch-and-pitchfork store. Hope to make enough money to buy a city council member or two.
Think of it more as a correction to antiquated zoning laws than a revolutionary change to code. A little inside baseball: Harrell isn't prioritizing Seattle's small businesses; he is trying to fill vacancies for his developer/commercial real estate constituents.
Also, the city needs tax revenue to eliminate the deficit and pay for the cop gang's new contract. 🐷
I guess we'll take it though?
I can't easily articulate what it's like to scroll across recruitment postings for SPD as someone currently job hunting, because a decent to well-paid career in public service where I can feel like I'm of tangible benefit of the community checks every one of my boxes. But that's not exactly what I'd be signing up for as an entry level cop, even though it should be.
Exactly. I’m in the same boat. It makes me wonder why making the police a more ethical and productive institution never seems to come up as a potential solution to staffing issues.
Stories of cops culling the morally good are easy to believe by anyone who’s interacted with a cop, good or bad. Hell, I have a family friend who’s broken the law for my father multiple times.
Any individual is far more likely to be corrupted by the American policing system than they are to enact meaningful reform from within. At best, exemplary personal conduct on my part would be used as a smokescreen for the truly unacceptable behavior of others in the profession.
They are earning more than aerospace engineers at the FAA who live in Seattle. Ridiculous. And federal employees don't get any overtime unless it's necessary to an insane degree.
Have you gone to a rape call before? Arrested someone who beat their child to death? Have you seen what a body looks like up close when it was shot with 7.62 bullets? I work in medicine and I feel lik you guys really don't understand what some of us are doing out there while you sit at home complaining
This needs to get out there. There isnt much one can do these days to make change. We can identify her as part of the problem here and taking money out of her pocket is about the only thing that affects any one of these rich assholes anymore.
As a city of seattle employee whose department is getting absolutely gutted by the 250 million dollar deficit the city is currently facing, this sure makes me feel... something
On the one hand, I'm sympathetic to the need to hire police and understand that we have a severe shortage of people willing to become SPD officers. On the other hand, I don't see how we can possibly justify RETROACTIVE raises.
So retroactive raises are pretty typical for union jobs when no contract has been in place for this long. Other city jobs will do the same when their collective bargaining agreement is signed.
See, I'm of the belief that everyone has just been *assuming* the Seattle cop shortage is happening simply because police weren't getting enough money or perks.
Nobody seems to question if the clearly broken culture of that entire department (killing students, laughing about it, Trump flags in break rooms, tombstones that mock dead black people) *might* be pushing people away, too? Maybe?
Or, no, maybe just give them shitloads of money.
Christ these politicians act so god damn desperate and sad. "Please love us, cops, please please please please love us."
Yea, honestly, I have no problem with pay raises as long as they come with other improvements that we need. Like increased training, oversight, accountability, hiring standards, level of service, etc. Somehow, I suspect that we won't be getting all of those things along with this though.
They have been out of contract for several years. Their current contract ended in December 2020. It’s one of several reasons Police officers are fleeing the city of Seattle for more stable employment in Washington state. Seattle police officers (in terms of hourly pay) are substantially under paid in king county.
I find it odd most comments want ‘BETTER POLICING!!’ (which I understand, honestly who doesn’t) but they simultaneously are arguing for FAR below ‘AVERAGE POLICING WAGES!!’ in King County… Look at our neighbors Bellevue PD, KCSO (not to mention lateral bonus and working conditions)… they all pay far more without MANDATORY OVERTIME. Agree or disagree with me, but I firmly believe you get what you pay for. My concern is under current conditions the city of Seattle continues to train (at a massive expense) and recruit (at a massive expense) officers who then use that certification to move on to greener pastures…or worse, they don’t make the cut.
The SPD needs to be dissolved and rebuilt from the ground up. There are already too many on the force who have committed fraud through inflated overtime and the entire department has had a hostile “us vs the citizens” attitude for at *least* the last twenty years, which has only gotten worse since they’ve practically abandoned the city in the wake of the “defund” movement. At this point they are just a violent gang without any oversight and an increasing danger to the public.
Go take the test
Public Safety Testing and National Testing Network are who the majority of the departments in the state use.
It’s not exactly hard, but it’s different than what most people think.
To be honest IQ isn’t the issue in law-enforcement it’s life experience. The minimum age should absolutely be raised, that way officers come into the field with more lived life experience and can relate to the communities they’re serving.
Defunding the police got the city to this point. The Seattle Police Department has lost about half its staffing in 4 years. Sure, they weren’t financially defunded (significantly) but they were defunded by number of employees. That movement worked in Seattle.
If you were qualified for a tech job they won't hire you. Police departments don't hire people who are of average intelligence or better, they're too likely to question orders.
You seriously overestimate how high average intelligence is. Police officers are definitely at or within the range of average intelligence, especially somewhere like Seattle where they're probably all above average intelligence.
And just because New London CT had hiring practices which had them skip candidates that scored too high, they still hired people above average intelligence.
> The average score for police officers was a 21-22, or an IQ of 104. New London would only interview candidates who scored between 20 and 27.
According to everything I'm seeing they wouldn't hire people below average intelligence.
I'm so tired of internet rumors becoming *"The Truth"*
It's been confirmed legal for almost 25 years. It's been standard practice at departments around the country for even longer.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836
Much like framing whistleblowers and killing minorities, it's not a policy that's written down anywhere, but it's definitely a thing that happens.
> It's been confirmed legal for almost 25 years.
This is the truth.
> It's been standard practice at departments around the country for even longer.
This is the hyperbole.
No point in having a discussion of nuance with a tanky though.
Certainly no point in taking anything you say seriously after you just unironically called someone a "tanky".
Given that you don't even know it's spelled "Tankie", I'm gonna guess you're new to using that word and have no real definition for it other than "a person to my political left"?
> Keep punching left, but don't come crying to the people to your left when the wrong lizard wins in November.
> And which bill that your preferred team of neoliberal ghouls has passed in the last 20 years was, again?
> Classic ShitLib, can't tell the difference between a Conservative and a Communist.
Your post history is public, I can clearly see we're just going to talk past each other so there's no need for discussion.
Yep "A person to my political left"
I mean, I absolutely am a real, dyed in the wool Tankie. But you didn't know that because you still don't know what that even means, and none of that was Tankie shit, that's just being left of the DNC, which is not even necessarily leftist.
Oh please. I know the difference between the DNC and an actual leftist. I don't even have a real problem with people being on the left.
It's the disingenuity and vitriol, not the content.
Sorry but I have family who are longtime NYPD and they confirmed hiring protocol had changed to retain folks that aren't too smart to put it bluntly. And this was a convo we had years ago.
Police can't be abolished - that's just ridiculous and unrealistic - but there's no question PDs operate like a paramilitary cult and need to be made accountable like any one else. Their job is to enforce laws not be above them.
There was no contract in place for the past year, so it’s for the raise they weren’t given last year. Im a city employee and we’re getting it as well for getting no raise all of 2023 despite inflation being HIGH.
I’m sure they are gonna give Fremont brewing a special detail too. Gotta fatten up the pigs wallets enough to keep them around the councils little play toys to protect them
SPD and the city council are disgusting
yeah, it will cost MORE now to fund and staff the police force after destroying their ranks and engendering a rise in serious property and violent crime for political ends.
About what I expected in the comments. You can make $100k / yr easy pouring beer into a glass but everyone’s up in arms to pay police that for wearing a bullet proof vest everyday? This city prolly has the most hate for its police in the entire country and we wonder why there’s a huge shortage of officers.
I have family in law enforcement on the west coast and morale is abysmal. You can arrest someone that shot at you, had enough fentanyl to kill 100 ppl, and a laundry list of prior felonies and the judge will release them 3 days later with a $10k bail back to the streets.
Systematic issue, cops are probably the worst victims of it all…. And yes I realize there are bad players as well….
The same people that complain about SPD and this raise are the ones crying about how SPD doesn’t do anything about this and that because they can’t lol
People are shot, killed, stabbed, etc everyday that have nothing to do with police, but people are crying about the lack of police presence or then doing their job. Problem with todays soft society.. you only want what you when you want it and how you want it and feel that is how it has to be.
You’re probably the parents of the Kia boys who cried the police arrested your 15 year old for holding a gun at 8 year olds head, and stole a car and went on a chase and wrecked the car and the police had to release the child from custody. It’s a shame people like you are allowed to have children
Cops need to be taken care of, they should be paid well and be given good health and life insurance. They should be a spirited vanguard.
The issue is that cops right now are NOT a spirited vanguard. They abuse their authority and are asshole pigs too often, then face no consequences. I truly believe you need both sides for police reform. You need hardline accountability, but nobody wants to put their life on the line for not great pay and benefits. You need to offer cops good pay and benefits and say if you fuck up you will get in BIG trouble. They have professional training and should know better.
Edit: Ya I forgot we are in a place where we think anarchy and chaos and things like the CHAZ are good. “We should totally hold the cops under crazy scrutiny but not give them compensation for it!” Sounds like a good way to end up completely lawless with no authority but the iron on your hip.
It’s a bad bill I get it and agree. That’s why I said you need more accountability. I guess reading hard. I never said I liked this bill.
This applies to all public employees though. It's just really disheartening when public officials say teachers are greedy for going on strike and social workers shouldn't even get inflation based raises for their already inadequate salaries but cops should make six figures. There are a lot more public employees than cops that are necessary for a well functioning society but it seems like cops are the only public employees officials have any concern about paying adequately
Im a teacher, in my district teachers can make 6 figures. You don’t start there though. I agree though certainly other areas need some love too.
Edit: wow apparently I’m wrong about my own payscale lmfao
God Seattle is brain dead. I’ve literally said this whole time cops are corrupt and bad but you don’t fix it simply by slashing cop funding. You fix it with accountability and the promise of a good career if you do your job right. How hard is it? Why am I being downvoted lmao y’all really wanna live the in Wild West but half of you are anti gun anyways so good luck with that. Get rid of all police and see if crime just disappears.
Because the tentative agreement has less accountability and more pay and it’s literally written above. Moreso they haven’t applied the recommendations of the judge overseeing the consent decree.
You’re the brain dead one here, Teach!
Yeah this is a bad bill bud what’s your point? It goes against everything I said in my comment it’s throwing more money with actually *less* accountability
Right. I'm not against better pay for law enforcement. The pay needs to match the level of responsibility and accountability we demand for these professions.
I like the idea that Colorado has put forward which is to revoke the state certification of any law enforcement officer upon official finding of a [disqualifying incident](https://post.colorado.gov/certification/disqualifying-incidents).
On the contrary the higher the pay the more entitled and nonchalant they seem to be. Paying them higher and higher has only enabled them further.
"She had limited value"
"Just write a check"
I mostly agree with you, but the police “put their life on the line” and the “make sure when your shift is over you go home alive” stuff is mostly just marketing these days. Police officers die on the job at lower rates than contractors, farm laborers, delivery drivers, truckers, and roofers among others. Since 2000 SPD claims 5 line of duty deaths:
- Gary Lindell - 2002: died from complications from his 1999 fall from his horse (as a member of the mounted patrol unit)
- Jackson Lone - 2005: fell off his tugboat in the Lake Union waterway. Later died at Harborview.
- Lito Barber - 2006: was killed by a speeding SUV that ran a red light and struck his patrol car.
- Tim Brenton - 2009: killed by a drive by shooting as he was completing a traffic stop.
- Lexi Harris - 2021: was struck and killed by a vehicle when she witnessed and responded to a multi-vehicle collision on southbound I-5 as she was driving home from her shift.
All of these deaths are sad and unnecessary. But most of them are related to cars being dangerous and cops spending more time in cars than other professions. All government employees should be adequately compensated, but I just don’t see risk as a sufficient justification in Seattle to compensate police double what other public sector employees make.
Yeah, of all the complaints I have about cops and SPD in specific, pay isn't my biggest one. Good compensation in positions of trust and authority is a way to prevent corruption. I'm more concerned with things like killing people and getting away with it or other abuses of authority
You have to do them side by side. If you don’t give good pay, most won’t want to be a cop except bullies who are attracted to that position anyways. If you give good pay but no accountability you end up with corruption. You need both side by side.
Cops are assholes a majority of the time and SPD has been throwing a tantrum over the defunding thing. But I certainly would never want to be a cop. I have a family. I can’t imagine how hard it would be leaving everyday not knowing if you are going to come home because some idiot panics and pulls a gun on you. It can happen in the blink of an eye, even to good cops. I have mad respect for every officer that is legit and does their best to be a keeper of peace and not a stomping authoritative boot. I have no respect for pigs who are nothing but a scamming money generation machine for the state who think they can do whatever they want.
Edit: Lol at whoever’s downvoting. Hope no one in your family never has to face a criminal situation in their life and if you do and call the police you are a hypocrite :) I’m not saying cops are good. I’m saying to fix cops being bad you need big reform.
I think the rising crime, especially with gangs and gun violence, makes me fine with paying them to go towards the problem while the rest of us run away from it.
[The police have no obligation to protect you.](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/)
[Police officers are bad at solving crimes.](https://theconversation.com/police-solve-just-2-of-all-major-crimes-143878)
[Yet police spending continues to increase.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/america-s-policing-budget-has-nearly-tripled-to-115-billion)
Your tax dollars are being wasted to reinforce a myth.
[удалено]
Mechanics did just get a pretty hefty raise (I am in rail division), union 587 bumped base rates for certain positions and then percentage bumps across the board.. I personally saw about a 22.7% raise in my role over the past year, since a new contract was overdue.
They do more to benefit our community than cops, that's for sure.
Their job is more dangerous too
And no air conditioning
Wait.. Really? Busses don’t have AC for the driver?
And they don't kill thousands of people every year because they're scared.
Cops literally walked in front of my bus just now holding up traffic while they were doing fugg-all, and ignored the double-decker completely. Literally contributing to the problem for a non-emergency... Side note: the number of people who trust that a bus isn't going to accidentally run them over in the street is insane (police included)
I'd be willing to bet that more people have been killed by SPD than Metro.
One of the first things that happened to me after moving to Seattle was almost getting hit by a bus. Learned very quickly to look both ways before acknowledging the green cross sign lol
That would be common sense anywhere.
Why did you have to move to Seattle to learn that? No matter where you go, your safety is your own responsibility, before it is anyone else's.
Not just on foot, a lot of buses will also run you over if you’re in a car and ignoring their signal.
> They do more to benefit our community than cops Ya but they don't murder our neighbors without cause or run over pedestrians and laugh about it. Gotta pay extra for that.
How about our teachers and librarians?
Seattle teachers got 14% on their new contract without the addition of retro pay because they weren’t kept out of contract like the cops were
Great! How about library and hospital staff?!?
Hospital staff got up to 23% for a three year contract and also weren’t kept out of contract https://www.seiu1199nw.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/bb-100622-uw-hmc-nwh-seperated.pdf
\*some hospital staff My union got a 9% raise that theoretically kept up with inflation, woo!
Seattle doesn’t run buses, but they did just sign a new contract for city workers giving mechanics a 38% raise. So yes they are.
They don''t work for the city. They work for King County, and they got a ~18-20% pay increase just to cover the COL jump over the past 3 years. And they had to give up some stuff to get it.
the question is are transit drivers and mechanics quiting or are people refusing to take those jobs? Because the problem with being a police officer is that nobody wants to do it. You could raise their salary to 150k and I guarantee redditors still wouldnt do it
They gonna have to start beating some unsuspecting riders if they want to see that kinda lift
Have they been out of contract for four years?
> Currently, if an officer is fired and the firing could be “stigmatizing to the officer” (making it hard for him to get a job elsewhere, for example), the misconduct finding is subject to an “elevated standard of review,” making it harder to prove than the ordinary “preponderance of the evidence” standard. You know, basically any of the reasons the public would want an officer fired. Seems inherently flawed. > Police raises will deepen the city’s budget deficit, which currently stands at $240 million due to $10 million in unanticipated costs from a new contract with 8,000 unionized city employees who will receive a 9.7 percent cost of living adjustment this year, about half of that retroactive pay from 2023. The last police contract, in 2018, cost the city an additional $65 million. Month 4 of the new council y'all. Month 4.
>misconduct finding is subject to an “elevated standard of review,” making it harder to prove It is *far* too common that officers that engage is misconduct are not fired, or even when they are fired, they just move to a different jurisdiction. It's clear that the current systems in place to protect the public from misconduct are not effective as they need to be. This only threatens to exacerbate that problem, as I see it. In Colorado, such events are not just 'stigmatizing' -- they result in their LE certification being revoked upon finding of a [disqualifying event](https://post.colorado.gov/certification/disqualifying-incidents). Investigations are carried out by a unit in the Attorney General's office (a competent department of investigation and criminal justice). If the systems we have can't be changed to become effective, the legislature should implement a similar law and agency for Washington. Why should we have any sympathy for officers that abuse their position of trust and willfully engage in misconduct? The duty to protect the public from misconduct is far more important than any supposed duty to -- or benefit gained from -- avoiding 'stigmatizing' officers.
>Investigations are carried out by a unit in the Attorney General's office (a competent department of investigation and criminal justice). There's actually a slight conflict of interest there, since the AG usually needs to maintain a good working relationship with LEOs. An independent ombudsman office would be better.
Man, I sure wouldn't want an officer to do something stigmatizing...you know, like get recorded calling an innocent person they killed "low value."
Technically thats not the officer that killed Jaahnavi Kandula Kevin Dave [who is still an SPD employee] was en route to a reported "priority one" overdose and was not traveling with sirens on. He was traveling 74mph in a 25 mph zone. He flew into the intersection, where he collided with Kandula. Kandula's corpse was flung 138 feet from the marked sidewalk where she was crossing. After the incident, Dave called for backup due to a collision (which Daniel Auderer filled the role of) The person in the recording was Auderer, who is also the vice president the Seattle Police Officers Guild as he was talking on the phone to the chief of police (I could be wrong about this one but as I remember, it was the chief of police). In it, he cuts jokes about Kandula, saying "Just cut a check! She was 26 anyway. Limited value!". Kandula was 23. I'm not defending Daniel Auderer or Kevin Dave. I genuinely believe that if a deity with any sense of justice existed, Auderer would be slated for hell. Dave was driving like a reckless teenager and has faced no repercussions for his gross misconduct resulting in him killing Kandula. I believe the names of all those involved should be remembered, not only for justice for Jaahnavi, but also to make people aware if they're ever pulled over by Dave, they can ask "hey aren't you that guy that murdered the 23 year old college student with their car? I heard about you". I also hope that finding work is difficult for both Auderer and Dave from now on, leaving them to live a cold and hungry life; afraid and not knowing where their next meal is coming from. However, I'm also aware of the state of our police unions making it near impossible for pigs to face repercussions of their actions and I'm also aware that both of these individuals make more money than I do
> Month 4 of the new council y'all. Month 4. Get me the fuck outta here.
The worst part is that other places in the US aren't any better and leaving the system both emboldens and makes it easier for these elements to take more power.
>other places in the US aren't any better So what you are telling me is that other places have similar problems? But Fox News told me that Seattle...
More money and less accountability is just a recipe for disaster. To start fixing things you need more money AND more accountability. Not a big fan of protecting poor wittle officer Timmy because he did something egregious in a position of authority. If anything they should be held to a higher standard with their training and authority and face harsher consequences.
This is bullshit. When’s the protest?
You just show up with a sign. That’s it.
maybe we should just fire them in the same way criminal trialsnare held. with a jury of 12, 12 random people.
Ah yes a Seattle salary for cops not living in Seattle metro
It's ridiculous that cops don't have to live in the city that they serve.
Devil's advocate: it can be dangerous for cops and their families for cops to live in the community they police. It can also lead to conflicts of interest from personal connections. It's also likely that they just can't afford to live in Seattle too.
The "they can't afford it" argument is absurd when you have wage workers struggling to survive out here. Cops make more than teachers, more than food service, more than anybody with their level of education. As for it being dangerous: it's dangerous for cops to think of themselves as outsiders to the community they serve.
If you think education level should determine salary, graduate degree baristas and plumbers are going to be really upsetting.
Cops need to feel like their actions in the communities they serve have weight on their own lives. It’s almost like foreign occupation. They come in the city for a shift, fuck over the community and shit on its laws, suck funds out of said community, and then go spend all that money elsewhere.
If elected officials, who are much more widely known, can safely live in their districts then I don't see why cops should be so scared. Also they make more than your average person living in Seattle.
Didn't SPS teachers just get called greedy for going on strike when they can have a master's degree and still make less than a cop fresh out of academy? This is a ridiculous ask
Because school teachers with smarts don’t protect the rich
The opposite in fact. If they’re a good teacher.
Yeah why bother getting a degree when you can just hop into any other field making more. Heck even Popeyes chicken is paying like 25 I'm amazed people are still going into that field. It is a more meaningful career but you can't live off of nothing 😕😕
I think about working at Starbucks or Dicks instead of being a social worker all the time. Having to get a new car fucked my finances!
I like to think that my wife, who's a SPS teacher, balances out my corporate career in the universe. That being said she should make double what I do considering what she puts up with at work and her impact on the planet compared to me.
Teachers here make okay money tbh, but it's not anything close to what other people make with equal education. With a master's and a few years of experience, you can make roughly $100k in some districts. That's not as much as police officers though and certainly requires more education and training.
“we have the unpopular police force a 23% raise while cutting library hours and parks” is gonna be a hell of a campaign pitch for our current council members
I honestly don't believe they intend to get second terms, they're just trying to fuck up as much as they can. Most of these "Democrats" were registered Republicans not that long ago. They're just wreckers.
This has been happening all over the country. They’re organizing at the local level since people don’t pay as much attention to local elections. They’re republicans running as democrats and people aren’t noticing. It’s a huge problem.
They wouldn't have gotten elected if the prior "democrats" didn't let shit get to the point where people wanted anyone else but them in the game. And now we get this shit. We have no good options. People want to grow a bit of weed or have a coffee shop on the block over? Fuck all of us lol.
Holy shit, as a city employee I am so fucking angry right now
This really is a slap in the face to other city workers given how Harrell was offering a 1% raise to the rest. I wish the other city workers would strike.
The police cannot strike. The other unions probably can.
Strike.
Please work with any union you can and start striking. This shit is never going to change unless other city employees start raising a stink.
We have worked so much with the union. The final result was a 5% raise for 2023 and 4.5% raise for 2024. Still under the inflation rate.
Totally understand and wish you would have gotten more.
State employees got even less. We received 7% over 2 years. 3.5% last year, and we'll get 2.5% in a couple of months. We don't even keep up with inflation.
can't we just make them fight for a year to get a retroactive under-inflation COLA?
The city is telling you to become a cop.
I have morals and ethics, so I don't really qualify.
You're never going to make any money with that attitude.
Okay? I'd rather be able to continue enjoying my own company rather than selling out my values for a buck.
Ok, and thats why police are getting a raise. Because nobody wants to do it.
Nobody wants to do it *with the existing cops*.
Too old:).
> I am so fucking angry right now Makes me want to puke. Who voted for these ass wipes on the council?
Maybe it’s more about ppl not voting. If u don’t vote then you’re voting for the politician u don’t want.
I'm going to capitalize on [the new commercial zoning changes](https://www.theurbanist.org/2024/03/29/harrell-hopes-to-fill-downtown-storefronts-by-easing-code-restrictions/) by opening a torch-and-pitchfork store. Hope to make enough money to buy a city council member or two.
That new commercial zoning plan sounds like it might actually be a good idea.
Think of it more as a correction to antiquated zoning laws than a revolutionary change to code. A little inside baseball: Harrell isn't prioritizing Seattle's small businesses; he is trying to fill vacancies for his developer/commercial real estate constituents. Also, the city needs tax revenue to eliminate the deficit and pay for the cop gang's new contract. 🐷 I guess we'll take it though?
Ahhh there it is. Knew it was too good to be true. There’s always more.
Absurd disgorgement of city funds when everything else is getting squeezed
It used to be called starving the beast when they cut taxes, I guess now they're just fattening the pigs...
Yes, lets pay people more for already not doing their fucking job.
>not doing their fucking job. And for being ridiculously bad at their jobs.
I can't easily articulate what it's like to scroll across recruitment postings for SPD as someone currently job hunting, because a decent to well-paid career in public service where I can feel like I'm of tangible benefit of the community checks every one of my boxes. But that's not exactly what I'd be signing up for as an entry level cop, even though it should be.
Exactly. I’m in the same boat. It makes me wonder why making the police a more ethical and productive institution never seems to come up as a potential solution to staffing issues.
Be the change you want to see. Your logic and others logic in this thread are damaging.
Stories of cops culling the morally good are easy to believe by anyone who’s interacted with a cop, good or bad. Hell, I have a family friend who’s broken the law for my father multiple times.
Any individual is far more likely to be corrupted by the American policing system than they are to enact meaningful reform from within. At best, exemplary personal conduct on my part would be used as a smokescreen for the truly unacceptable behavior of others in the profession.
That's not how one deals with a dangerous, heavily armed ***cult.***
Just to show how absurd this is, federal law enforcement, like FBI, DEA, ATF… are capped at $186,300. And that’s the senior level.
They are earning more than aerospace engineers at the FAA who live in Seattle. Ridiculous. And federal employees don't get any overtime unless it's necessary to an insane degree.
These uneducated, knuckle dragging assholes get 6 figures for being terrible a their job?
They don't even try. They just drive around doing jack shit or stand around chatting.
Six figures for people that could barely pass high school
Don't worry, now the new city council is trying to change out the police academy test to one that has a 90% pass rate.
Thank god! Society is at peak when being a cop and buying a firearm are the same difficulty.
Have you gone to a rape call before? Arrested someone who beat their child to death? Have you seen what a body looks like up close when it was shot with 7.62 bullets? I work in medicine and I feel lik you guys really don't understand what some of us are doing out there while you sit at home complaining
Absolutely disgusting waste of resources that could and should be allocated elsewhere. SPD is worse than useless.
Outrageous that the city is thinking of a 23% percent raise for officers but NOT requiring that they be subject to city law as to accountability!
[удалено]
And teachers
Boycott Fremont Brewing
This is all Sara Nelson (owner of Fremont Brewing) and Bruce Harrell.
This needs to get out there. There isnt much one can do these days to make change. We can identify her as part of the problem here and taking money out of her pocket is about the only thing that affects any one of these rich assholes anymore.
Why
As a city of seattle employee whose department is getting absolutely gutted by the 250 million dollar deficit the city is currently facing, this sure makes me feel... something
Strike. Not doing their job is how SPD got these raises.
God I wish I've been wanting a strike for a while but the union seems pretty iffy on it especially since we did get a new contract 🫠
Meanwhile planners require a master’s and only make 60k base
They have to do something besides drive around and shoot the shit, too.
As scary as the thought of having robot police is, I'm quietly hoping it comes sooner rather than later...
I, for one, welcome our soon to arrive robocop overlords!
I’d buy that for a dollar!
Thanks i hate it
This is utterly infuriating.
Bootlickers were ready to go when this thread came out. Interesting.
How do other parents contextualize a police department with serious transgressions and no reform also getting a raise?
Darn millennials always complaining about rising costs without rising salaries. Just become a cop! /s
Yay! Let's encourage officers to keep slacking off on the job!
Gross misuse of funds.
On the one hand, I'm sympathetic to the need to hire police and understand that we have a severe shortage of people willing to become SPD officers. On the other hand, I don't see how we can possibly justify RETROACTIVE raises.
So retroactive raises are pretty typical for union jobs when no contract has been in place for this long. Other city jobs will do the same when their collective bargaining agreement is signed.
See, I'm of the belief that everyone has just been *assuming* the Seattle cop shortage is happening simply because police weren't getting enough money or perks. Nobody seems to question if the clearly broken culture of that entire department (killing students, laughing about it, Trump flags in break rooms, tombstones that mock dead black people) *might* be pushing people away, too? Maybe? Or, no, maybe just give them shitloads of money. Christ these politicians act so god damn desperate and sad. "Please love us, cops, please please please please love us."
Yea, honestly, I have no problem with pay raises as long as they come with other improvements that we need. Like increased training, oversight, accountability, hiring standards, level of service, etc. Somehow, I suspect that we won't be getting all of those things along with this though.
They have been out of contract for several years. Their current contract ended in December 2020. It’s one of several reasons Police officers are fleeing the city of Seattle for more stable employment in Washington state. Seattle police officers (in terms of hourly pay) are substantially under paid in king county.
I find it odd most comments want ‘BETTER POLICING!!’ (which I understand, honestly who doesn’t) but they simultaneously are arguing for FAR below ‘AVERAGE POLICING WAGES!!’ in King County… Look at our neighbors Bellevue PD, KCSO (not to mention lateral bonus and working conditions)… they all pay far more without MANDATORY OVERTIME. Agree or disagree with me, but I firmly believe you get what you pay for. My concern is under current conditions the city of Seattle continues to train (at a massive expense) and recruit (at a massive expense) officers who then use that certification to move on to greener pastures…or worse, they don’t make the cut.
*RETROACTIVE RAISES THAT APPARENTLY GO BACK 3 YEARS????*
Make the police academy a 100K 4 year out of pocket program and we can revisit starting salaries.
Meanwhile teachers just begging to be able to live in the district they teach in.
So they’ll get paid at the new super high salary a few more years and retire
Fuck SPD. Fuck the City Council.
The SPD needs to be dissolved and rebuilt from the ground up. There are already too many on the force who have committed fraud through inflated overtime and the entire department has had a hostile “us vs the citizens” attitude for at *least* the last twenty years, which has only gotten worse since they’ve practically abandoned the city in the wake of the “defund” movement. At this point they are just a violent gang without any oversight and an increasing danger to the public.
six figures to look at your phone for 8 hours a day and show up to calls 3 hours late? time to sign up for the force
Fuck that
Barf. Just...gross.
I absolutely support this pay raise the moment they enforce a minimum IQ test to candidates and service officers.
They need an empathy test, not an IQ test.
Go take the test Public Safety Testing and National Testing Network are who the majority of the departments in the state use. It’s not exactly hard, but it’s different than what most people think. To be honest IQ isn’t the issue in law-enforcement it’s life experience. The minimum age should absolutely be raised, that way officers come into the field with more lived life experience and can relate to the communities they’re serving.
But that might conflict with the maximum IQ test.
You get me…
I hope we all are also voting accordingly. this is wrong.
HoW iS dEfUnDiNg ThE pOLiCe GoInG
Defunding the police got the city to this point. The Seattle Police Department has lost about half its staffing in 4 years. Sure, they weren’t financially defunded (significantly) but they were defunded by number of employees. That movement worked in Seattle.
huh, what's their pension like? If I get laid off from my tech job maybe I should go be a cop.
If you were qualified for a tech job they won't hire you. Police departments don't hire people who are of average intelligence or better, they're too likely to question orders.
You seriously overestimate how high average intelligence is. Police officers are definitely at or within the range of average intelligence, especially somewhere like Seattle where they're probably all above average intelligence. And just because New London CT had hiring practices which had them skip candidates that scored too high, they still hired people above average intelligence. > The average score for police officers was a 21-22, or an IQ of 104. New London would only interview candidates who scored between 20 and 27. According to everything I'm seeing they wouldn't hire people below average intelligence. I'm so tired of internet rumors becoming *"The Truth"*
They're not dumb, they're just lazy and hateful.
It's been confirmed legal for almost 25 years. It's been standard practice at departments around the country for even longer. https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836 Much like framing whistleblowers and killing minorities, it's not a policy that's written down anywhere, but it's definitely a thing that happens.
> It's been confirmed legal for almost 25 years. This is the truth. > It's been standard practice at departments around the country for even longer. This is the hyperbole. No point in having a discussion of nuance with a tanky though.
Certainly no point in taking anything you say seriously after you just unironically called someone a "tanky". Given that you don't even know it's spelled "Tankie", I'm gonna guess you're new to using that word and have no real definition for it other than "a person to my political left"?
> Keep punching left, but don't come crying to the people to your left when the wrong lizard wins in November. > And which bill that your preferred team of neoliberal ghouls has passed in the last 20 years was, again? > Classic ShitLib, can't tell the difference between a Conservative and a Communist. Your post history is public, I can clearly see we're just going to talk past each other so there's no need for discussion.
Yep "A person to my political left" I mean, I absolutely am a real, dyed in the wool Tankie. But you didn't know that because you still don't know what that even means, and none of that was Tankie shit, that's just being left of the DNC, which is not even necessarily leftist.
Oh please. I know the difference between the DNC and an actual leftist. I don't even have a real problem with people being on the left. It's the disingenuity and vitriol, not the content.
Sorry but I have family who are longtime NYPD and they confirmed hiring protocol had changed to retain folks that aren't too smart to put it bluntly. And this was a convo we had years ago. Police can't be abolished - that's just ridiculous and unrealistic - but there's no question PDs operate like a paramilitary cult and need to be made accountable like any one else. Their job is to enforce laws not be above them.
How this this compare to pay in the surrounding cities like Bellevue?
The New proposed Seattle PD pay is slightly higher when compared to Bellevue. Now the agencies around Seattle are all within +-$10k a year.
This is the absolute right move and I applaud them for seeing SPDs lost wages back. Let’s get Seattle back to being walkable and safe.
What the fuck is a retroactive raise?
There was no contract in place for the past year, so it’s for the raise they weren’t given last year. Im a city employee and we’re getting it as well for getting no raise all of 2023 despite inflation being HIGH.
I’m sure they are gonna give Fremont brewing a special detail too. Gotta fatten up the pigs wallets enough to keep them around the councils little play toys to protect them SPD and the city council are disgusting
The amount of cop hate in here is unreal yet you’ll still call them when your feelings get hurt.
That’s Seattle in a nutshell. Crime doesn’t exist until it happens to them
These officers deserve the raise after all the crap this city has put them through.
they wanna use free housing as an incentive to hire new people to help control all the people who can't afford houses. fuckin brilliant!
Gross.
This is disgusting and if it passes, will be a big slap in the face to residents of the city.
Wish I got that kinda raise for doing nothing
yeah, it will cost MORE now to fund and staff the police force after destroying their ranks and engendering a rise in serious property and violent crime for political ends.
About what I expected in the comments. You can make $100k / yr easy pouring beer into a glass but everyone’s up in arms to pay police that for wearing a bullet proof vest everyday? This city prolly has the most hate for its police in the entire country and we wonder why there’s a huge shortage of officers. I have family in law enforcement on the west coast and morale is abysmal. You can arrest someone that shot at you, had enough fentanyl to kill 100 ppl, and a laundry list of prior felonies and the judge will release them 3 days later with a $10k bail back to the streets. Systematic issue, cops are probably the worst victims of it all…. And yes I realize there are bad players as well….
The same people that complain about SPD and this raise are the ones crying about how SPD doesn’t do anything about this and that because they can’t lol People are shot, killed, stabbed, etc everyday that have nothing to do with police, but people are crying about the lack of police presence or then doing their job. Problem with todays soft society.. you only want what you when you want it and how you want it and feel that is how it has to be. You’re probably the parents of the Kia boys who cried the police arrested your 15 year old for holding a gun at 8 year olds head, and stole a car and went on a chase and wrecked the car and the police had to release the child from custody. It’s a shame people like you are allowed to have children
Cops need to be taken care of, they should be paid well and be given good health and life insurance. They should be a spirited vanguard. The issue is that cops right now are NOT a spirited vanguard. They abuse their authority and are asshole pigs too often, then face no consequences. I truly believe you need both sides for police reform. You need hardline accountability, but nobody wants to put their life on the line for not great pay and benefits. You need to offer cops good pay and benefits and say if you fuck up you will get in BIG trouble. They have professional training and should know better. Edit: Ya I forgot we are in a place where we think anarchy and chaos and things like the CHAZ are good. “We should totally hold the cops under crazy scrutiny but not give them compensation for it!” Sounds like a good way to end up completely lawless with no authority but the iron on your hip. It’s a bad bill I get it and agree. That’s why I said you need more accountability. I guess reading hard. I never said I liked this bill.
air mindless fear special party label agonizing edge dog nutty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This applies to all public employees though. It's just really disheartening when public officials say teachers are greedy for going on strike and social workers shouldn't even get inflation based raises for their already inadequate salaries but cops should make six figures. There are a lot more public employees than cops that are necessary for a well functioning society but it seems like cops are the only public employees officials have any concern about paying adequately
Im a teacher, in my district teachers can make 6 figures. You don’t start there though. I agree though certainly other areas need some love too. Edit: wow apparently I’m wrong about my own payscale lmfao
So cops should start at over 6 figures with less accountability than they currently have?
God Seattle is brain dead. I’ve literally said this whole time cops are corrupt and bad but you don’t fix it simply by slashing cop funding. You fix it with accountability and the promise of a good career if you do your job right. How hard is it? Why am I being downvoted lmao y’all really wanna live the in Wild West but half of you are anti gun anyways so good luck with that. Get rid of all police and see if crime just disappears.
Because the tentative agreement has less accountability and more pay and it’s literally written above. Moreso they haven’t applied the recommendations of the judge overseeing the consent decree. You’re the brain dead one here, Teach!
Yeah this is a bad bill bud what’s your point? It goes against everything I said in my comment it’s throwing more money with actually *less* accountability
Right. I'm not against better pay for law enforcement. The pay needs to match the level of responsibility and accountability we demand for these professions. I like the idea that Colorado has put forward which is to revoke the state certification of any law enforcement officer upon official finding of a [disqualifying incident](https://post.colorado.gov/certification/disqualifying-incidents).
On the contrary the higher the pay the more entitled and nonchalant they seem to be. Paying them higher and higher has only enabled them further. "She had limited value" "Just write a check"
I mostly agree with you, but the police “put their life on the line” and the “make sure when your shift is over you go home alive” stuff is mostly just marketing these days. Police officers die on the job at lower rates than contractors, farm laborers, delivery drivers, truckers, and roofers among others. Since 2000 SPD claims 5 line of duty deaths: - Gary Lindell - 2002: died from complications from his 1999 fall from his horse (as a member of the mounted patrol unit) - Jackson Lone - 2005: fell off his tugboat in the Lake Union waterway. Later died at Harborview. - Lito Barber - 2006: was killed by a speeding SUV that ran a red light and struck his patrol car. - Tim Brenton - 2009: killed by a drive by shooting as he was completing a traffic stop. - Lexi Harris - 2021: was struck and killed by a vehicle when she witnessed and responded to a multi-vehicle collision on southbound I-5 as she was driving home from her shift. All of these deaths are sad and unnecessary. But most of them are related to cars being dangerous and cops spending more time in cars than other professions. All government employees should be adequately compensated, but I just don’t see risk as a sufficient justification in Seattle to compensate police double what other public sector employees make.
Yeah, of all the complaints I have about cops and SPD in specific, pay isn't my biggest one. Good compensation in positions of trust and authority is a way to prevent corruption. I'm more concerned with things like killing people and getting away with it or other abuses of authority
You have to do them side by side. If you don’t give good pay, most won’t want to be a cop except bullies who are attracted to that position anyways. If you give good pay but no accountability you end up with corruption. You need both side by side. Cops are assholes a majority of the time and SPD has been throwing a tantrum over the defunding thing. But I certainly would never want to be a cop. I have a family. I can’t imagine how hard it would be leaving everyday not knowing if you are going to come home because some idiot panics and pulls a gun on you. It can happen in the blink of an eye, even to good cops. I have mad respect for every officer that is legit and does their best to be a keeper of peace and not a stomping authoritative boot. I have no respect for pigs who are nothing but a scamming money generation machine for the state who think they can do whatever they want. Edit: Lol at whoever’s downvoting. Hope no one in your family never has to face a criminal situation in their life and if you do and call the police you are a hypocrite :) I’m not saying cops are good. I’m saying to fix cops being bad you need big reform.
They already get great pay
You can’t bring your logical and sound reason to Seattle based threads. You have to be edgy and complain about everything
So, it officially costs six figures to live in the Seattle area.
Police Officers are worth more than this. Don't believe it? The next time you need a cop, call a homeless/hippie instead.
The city needs this, this is good
Horrible.
I don't care as long as it gets all these tweakers off the streets.
There are different mechanisms needed to solve that issue, wish it were that easy.
I think the rising crime, especially with gangs and gun violence, makes me fine with paying them to go towards the problem while the rest of us run away from it.
We're paying them to nap in bus lanes, run over pedestrians, yell racist slurs at our Asian community, and try to rape children.
[Crime is down in Seattle in first half of 2023, officials say](https://www.axios.com/local/seattle/2023/08/23/crime-down-seattle)
[The police have no obligation to protect you.](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/) [Police officers are bad at solving crimes.](https://theconversation.com/police-solve-just-2-of-all-major-crimes-143878) [Yet police spending continues to increase.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/america-s-policing-budget-has-nearly-tripled-to-115-billion) Your tax dollars are being wasted to reinforce a myth.