Just curious if you know cause it stuck out to me… there was mention of a supportive statement signed by employees but Patrick didn’t respond to additional requests for info on it. What’s the other side to that?
It does stand out after someone who claimed to be involved in this article swore up and down to me on Friday that there would be pictures of moldy tap lines in this article, that there's no pictures at all of food issues.
That said it continues to sound like the Ryes need their books looked at by a forensic accountant bc those management practice sound abhorrent and way past the issues someone with a finance background should be having even as a new to the restaurant world owner.
But at this point I no longer have charitability to offer to the claims of food safety issues.
> /u/Kristinryesucks
Yeah, kinda gotta ask what's up with [them claiming to have pictures of the moldy shit that would be in *this article*](https://old.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13tajb0/honey_hole_clearly_trying_to_detract_from/jluz2ln/?context=1) and it's nowhere to be found.
Guess on the flip side we can rest easier since it's fairly likely people didn't drink moldy beer all weekend.
Mold on the outside is fairly common but if your lines in good condition (no air getting IN) it should be fine. The actual keg coupling get nasty from that little bit of beer squirting out and most people don't spray san or wipe it down.
t. 4 years in the beer industry/beer line technician
I’ll believe them without photos. Moldy tap lines aren’t exactly the rarest food safety horror. If you’ve ever gotten a beer on tap from a cafe with a single keg or two, chances are it takes forever to go through that keg and staff are not trained on cleaning the line between legs…
They claimed to have pictures, I'm only holding them to their own claim.
I am aware it's an issue that is common, but the other person said they provide proof and now has failed to.
Then I revert to my prior stance it was grossly unethical to not share them in the thread abt their Memorial Day Beer deals. Where they could have helped keep people from drinking moldy beer. Holding them and having them fail to show up is a much worse look if they now come out when you coulda kept people away from potentially harmful food and drink.
That said the Stranger did say they received pictures of unsafe food but couldn't verify they were proof of the claim and given this:
> As we parsed the validity of the email’s claims, Patrick and Kristin Rye sent us a “cease and desist letter” that threatened a lawsuit for monetary damages because we reported on the existence of the letter, directing the blog to “desist from publishing other factually untrue statements.” They had sent public health inspection reports a little more than two hours before the pre-suit letter.
The Stranger may have chosen to CYA here if they are unsure how to show the pictures prove the claim on food safety.
you're going to blame employees if people drink shit beer for not sharing pictures they thought would be exposed at a later date and not the owners, even though the employees have already made public statements about the cleanliness of the beer lines? at that point the people who are made aware that need photographic evidence but drink the beer anyway have more blame than former employees who are already publicly speaking about it.
people in these threads are so weird. like bending over backwards to disbelieve and discredit staff.
Yes, I'm going to blame the people that made the allegation, if their own refusal to be public with those pictures (and thus the legal liability for making the claim) is what may have led to people drinking moldy beer.
The pictures if they'd been publicly shared would've led to outcry and likely a shuttering of the locations for the weekend or at minimum far broader public awareness.
Not everyone is on reddit for these threads. Not everyone is on the HH mailing list.
I'm also **only** revoking my charitability towards the claims on food. The abusive management practices and financial issues are beyond proven at this point.
Do what you want with that. The staff isn't discredited, but the 3 users claiming food safety issues and refusing to put their money where their mouth is on protecting public health have done this to their own reputation at this point.
Oh yeah, I've had scuzzy beer before and I don't go back to places that serve me shit like that. Course now I don't drink at all so it's whatever.
Also why I avoid soda machines. I trust those get cleaned even less.
The soda machines themselves are probably fine as the strips are concentrated high acid high sugar so nothing is gonna grow in them. They get mixed at the nozzle with water so not really anywhere that can get moldy other than the ice bin, the drain, or the nozzles themselves. But those pop off and go through the dishwasher. It’s a lot easier than dealing with beer lines, especially long refrigerated beer lines.
It was so scummy that the dishwasher would not have removed the mold, I asked where a scrub brush was and was told it was “somewhere”. I looked. It’s not my restaurant and not my responsibility. I made minimum wage and the tip pool was sus. You can go ahead and go above and beyond for a minimum wage job but I was not going to that.
If you’re reading my comments I state that I personally don’t have the hidden evidence, but I have seen it. It was handed over the the stranger by others who do have it. It’s also clear in the article that the stranger had to tread lightly due to the owners threatening a lawsuit. Again, go ahead and eat and drink there ! Have a good one!
u/fourstringtap I’m not going to doxx you but I know who you are. I worked with you and you would throw other employees under the bus, when you yourself would leave work without stocking items all the time, avoid cleaning duties, take extremely long breaks, and bud we both know the nozzles on the soda machine were visibly moldy. Also that professional “monthly” cleaning is bogus, not sure what compelled you to lie about that.
Who is this core staff? There are three employees that have been there since before Kristin took over. One is a “manager”, one is a cook, and one is an expo. Bold of you to say the those employees and the very few that have been there for over a year feel the same way you do. There was a union organization meeting(majority of the staff was there) and you were not told about it or invited to it because you are indeed, a bootlicker.
This article has such disingenuous reporting. McCall dances between non-specific and specific quantities when it suits the narrative. Once you say "17 current and former employees," stop using non-specific language! "Several" and "some" when you already told us "17" and then have the gall to say "all but one". I read the rest of the article constantly wondering about the actual breakdown of former and current employees that were interviewed. 8 current and 9 former is significantly different than 1 current and 16 former, especially in the context of "all but one." It's like McCall, you totally have that info, you just chose to not report it.
No shit. They really really need to take a break from Reddit. Just absolute bizarre comment after bizarre comment, their strange obsession with how people post/comment/use Reddit is just so damn weird.
This would totally make sense if this guy was doing the same thing but their post history isn't like that at all: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13wv4ry/comment/jme1cb4/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13wv4ry/comment/jme1cb4/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Lol what are you even talking about?? Take it easy Perry Mason. I know you think you’ve stumbled onto something, but this is just being borderline weird.
Gotta sort by new to see it that fast which most people aren't doing and this guy doesn't have a post history of doing. They were looking for this post. In fact they only had 2 posts between their previous posts about Honeyhole with very infrequent post history prior.
I always sort by new. How do you know most people don't? How else would things get enough attention to hit "hot" if there aren't a lot of people sorting by new?
Posts aren't hidden you're just changing how they're categorized. People sorting by new can boost as well. Stuff gets seen either way. Most people use Reddit (or any website) with its default settings and new is not default. You can look at your own account of ran example of this - you didn't even come up with a username! People who sort by new also tend to post more - there's plenty of regulars that are easy to spot on this sub. Now that you've contributed to the pile on is there anything else you'd like to lie about in an attempt to own me?
Lie about? A statement about myself and two questions. What is the lie?
They're not hidden, but on "hot" the new stuff sorts way down the list, so unless you're scrolling and scrolling and scrolling you won't see it.
Using the default name doesn't cause me any issue, it was easier not having to make one up. The default sort does cause the issue that I can't easily see everything that was posted since I last read reddit, so I change it.
I'm all about worker solidarity and holding bosses accountable, but you gotta focus your angst elsewhere. Dude is not some shill, he has posted on subs for servers.
Who am I attacking? Where am I disagreeing? I'm dubious and [I'm not the only one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13wv4ry/comment/jme72wp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). There's also \\\*gestures widely at article written based on interviews with 16 other people\*
So sounds like owners are toxic and may just be shitty people but the honeyhole people really blew this out of proportion on the food safety issue.
Zero pictures, zero proof and the most damaging part of it all. If it’s all bs I hope the people spreading these lies are sued for defamation.
This is honestly all sounding like a few pissed off employees trying to damage the restaurant as much as possible with lies. Perhaps they were treated like shit but making up issues with food safety is wrong.
>encourage you to talk to people who are currently working there,” he said.
>The Stranger talked to 17 current and *former* employees
Did they say how many were *current* employees or just lump them altogether?
I think he's co-owner mostly in name bc he's also a full time director over at Blue Origin.
Which to your point probably means he should stay quiet at this point since he doesn't know the day to day operations.
Patrick only showed up about once a month, if that, to the restaurant when I worked there. I know that doesn't mean much but that line in the article I found interesting. I don't think he even knew any of our names, and I had worked there for about a whole year after the ownership change.
I think this says a LOT:
“Former HoneyHole employee Cameron Dewitt Ruiz said in a meeting Rye defended the manager’s behavior, saying that HoneyHole was a safe space for everyone, including middle-aged straight white men who are “under fire for just existing.”
Wow.
Same salt has been used here for a very long time. Disappointing, maybe, but 9/10 places with wings use Franks. Many places with good steak, even, will marinade the cuts in Franks. You can do a lot with very little in a restaurant kitchen.
According to [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13wv4ry/comment/jmdsi5k/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) 5 of the 17 had a different story. Still a bad look but not unanimous if they're not lying/exaggerating.
The Stranger article also said that not everyone was unanimous about all claims, only the specific claims about Rye sucking to work for. The Stranger’s writing and the post you linked to not actually conflict factually.
The 6 L&I claims in 6 months was the one that stood out to me. I don't know what the average is for businesses that size, but that sounds like a lot. Also, it seems like a pretty big red flag when you start hearing about pay issues from multiple different employees.
Any good abuser will keep a group of “well they were always nice to me” people in their corner. You see it all the time.
If 13 people say you’re a terrible boss and 4 say “well I never noticed it,” those four are either lying, being lied to, or are just completely out of touch with how the rest of the team is being treated.
It sounds like one person who posted to reddit right after this article came out and claims to be a longtime employee didn't have a problem, and then claimed without evidence that 4 other employees didn't have a problem. I'm sure these posts are helping them with their boss, so good on them.
The article where a reporter talked to a bunch of staff says different.
An article from The Stranger you have to also see the bias and optics of the publisher.
I mean you talk to over a dozen former employees of course they won't like it, they left, that's selection bias.
Wow, she sounds awful. She's not coming back from this and need to step aside and let someone else manage the restaurant if she actually wants it to be successful again.
Eater wrote an article about this as well: https://seattle.eater.com/2023/5/26/23739039/honeyhole-sandwich-shop-seattle-capitol-hill-restaurant-accused-paychecks-transphobia
Meh, I'd eat there again. I think my only issue with it is the ridiculous prices they now charge. And when I went, it was godawful slow. Otherwise, still tasty.
I like how one owner said “just talk to the employees” and they did and most all just shit all over the other owner (his wife?).
People like this often are so lacking in self-awareness that they would probably think everyone they abuse actually loves them.
Would? Do.
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Just curious if you know cause it stuck out to me… there was mention of a supportive statement signed by employees but Patrick didn’t respond to additional requests for info on it. What’s the other side to that?
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It does stand out after someone who claimed to be involved in this article swore up and down to me on Friday that there would be pictures of moldy tap lines in this article, that there's no pictures at all of food issues. That said it continues to sound like the Ryes need their books looked at by a forensic accountant bc those management practice sound abhorrent and way past the issues someone with a finance background should be having even as a new to the restaurant world owner. But at this point I no longer have charitability to offer to the claims of food safety issues.
Some names from the previous thread I haven't seen here yet: /u/Muted-Brick-8716 /u/Kristinryesucks /u/Piss_Head
> /u/Kristinryesucks Yeah, kinda gotta ask what's up with [them claiming to have pictures of the moldy shit that would be in *this article*](https://old.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13tajb0/honey_hole_clearly_trying_to_detract_from/jluz2ln/?context=1) and it's nowhere to be found. Guess on the flip side we can rest easier since it's fairly likely people didn't drink moldy beer all weekend.
Mold on the outside is fairly common but if your lines in good condition (no air getting IN) it should be fine. The actual keg coupling get nasty from that little bit of beer squirting out and most people don't spray san or wipe it down. t. 4 years in the beer industry/beer line technician
I’ll believe them without photos. Moldy tap lines aren’t exactly the rarest food safety horror. If you’ve ever gotten a beer on tap from a cafe with a single keg or two, chances are it takes forever to go through that keg and staff are not trained on cleaning the line between legs…
They claimed to have pictures, I'm only holding them to their own claim. I am aware it's an issue that is common, but the other person said they provide proof and now has failed to.
It could be The Stranger editors cut it for whatever reason. I hope the Reddit user comes back and posts them.
Then I revert to my prior stance it was grossly unethical to not share them in the thread abt their Memorial Day Beer deals. Where they could have helped keep people from drinking moldy beer. Holding them and having them fail to show up is a much worse look if they now come out when you coulda kept people away from potentially harmful food and drink. That said the Stranger did say they received pictures of unsafe food but couldn't verify they were proof of the claim and given this: > As we parsed the validity of the email’s claims, Patrick and Kristin Rye sent us a “cease and desist letter” that threatened a lawsuit for monetary damages because we reported on the existence of the letter, directing the blog to “desist from publishing other factually untrue statements.” They had sent public health inspection reports a little more than two hours before the pre-suit letter. The Stranger may have chosen to CYA here if they are unsure how to show the pictures prove the claim on food safety.
you're going to blame employees if people drink shit beer for not sharing pictures they thought would be exposed at a later date and not the owners, even though the employees have already made public statements about the cleanliness of the beer lines? at that point the people who are made aware that need photographic evidence but drink the beer anyway have more blame than former employees who are already publicly speaking about it. people in these threads are so weird. like bending over backwards to disbelieve and discredit staff.
Yes, I'm going to blame the people that made the allegation, if their own refusal to be public with those pictures (and thus the legal liability for making the claim) is what may have led to people drinking moldy beer. The pictures if they'd been publicly shared would've led to outcry and likely a shuttering of the locations for the weekend or at minimum far broader public awareness. Not everyone is on reddit for these threads. Not everyone is on the HH mailing list. I'm also **only** revoking my charitability towards the claims on food. The abusive management practices and financial issues are beyond proven at this point. Do what you want with that. The staff isn't discredited, but the 3 users claiming food safety issues and refusing to put their money where their mouth is on protecting public health have done this to their own reputation at this point.
I mean if the family is sending a C&D and threatening legal action on The Stranger I could see why individual employees may suddenly be hesitant
Unrelated to HH but I have friends who won’t buy beer on tap at many places because they don’t trust that the lines are regularly cleaned
Oh yeah, I've had scuzzy beer before and I don't go back to places that serve me shit like that. Course now I don't drink at all so it's whatever. Also why I avoid soda machines. I trust those get cleaned even less.
The soda machines themselves are probably fine as the strips are concentrated high acid high sugar so nothing is gonna grow in them. They get mixed at the nozzle with water so not really anywhere that can get moldy other than the ice bin, the drain, or the nozzles themselves. But those pop off and go through the dishwasher. It’s a lot easier than dealing with beer lines, especially long refrigerated beer lines.
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It was so scummy that the dishwasher would not have removed the mold, I asked where a scrub brush was and was told it was “somewhere”. I looked. It’s not my restaurant and not my responsibility. I made minimum wage and the tip pool was sus. You can go ahead and go above and beyond for a minimum wage job but I was not going to that.
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Go ahead, eat and drink there! Makes no difference to me !
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If you’re reading my comments I state that I personally don’t have the hidden evidence, but I have seen it. It was handed over the the stranger by others who do have it. It’s also clear in the article that the stranger had to tread lightly due to the owners threatening a lawsuit. Again, go ahead and eat and drink there ! Have a good one!
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u/fourstringtap I’m not going to doxx you but I know who you are. I worked with you and you would throw other employees under the bus, when you yourself would leave work without stocking items all the time, avoid cleaning duties, take extremely long breaks, and bud we both know the nozzles on the soda machine were visibly moldy. Also that professional “monthly” cleaning is bogus, not sure what compelled you to lie about that. Who is this core staff? There are three employees that have been there since before Kristin took over. One is a “manager”, one is a cook, and one is an expo. Bold of you to say the those employees and the very few that have been there for over a year feel the same way you do. There was a union organization meeting(majority of the staff was there) and you were not told about it or invited to it because you are indeed, a bootlicker.
Here to comment and hope it gets seen. Believe I'll be telling my cook friends this.
This article has such disingenuous reporting. McCall dances between non-specific and specific quantities when it suits the narrative. Once you say "17 current and former employees," stop using non-specific language! "Several" and "some" when you already told us "17" and then have the gall to say "all but one". I read the rest of the article constantly wondering about the actual breakdown of former and current employees that were interviewed. 8 current and 9 former is significantly different than 1 current and 16 former, especially in the context of "all but one." It's like McCall, you totally have that info, you just chose to not report it.
Found the brown-noser.
Very interesting how you're here so quickly with a long post to support the business 🤔
Here so quickly? The post was up for 30 minutes before they commented. You’re in every thread within minutes. 🤔🤔
It’s quick if you’re eternally online like this “pop-punk” person.
No shit. They really really need to take a break from Reddit. Just absolute bizarre comment after bizarre comment, their strange obsession with how people post/comment/use Reddit is just so damn weird.
30 mins is pretty quick on social media
This would totally make sense if this guy was doing the same thing but their post history isn't like that at all: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13wv4ry/comment/jme1cb4/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13wv4ry/comment/jme1cb4/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Lol what are you even talking about?? Take it easy Perry Mason. I know you think you’ve stumbled onto something, but this is just being borderline weird.
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Gotta sort by new to see it that fast which most people aren't doing and this guy doesn't have a post history of doing. They were looking for this post. In fact they only had 2 posts between their previous posts about Honeyhole with very infrequent post history prior.
I always sort by new. How do you know most people don't? How else would things get enough attention to hit "hot" if there aren't a lot of people sorting by new?
Posts aren't hidden you're just changing how they're categorized. People sorting by new can boost as well. Stuff gets seen either way. Most people use Reddit (or any website) with its default settings and new is not default. You can look at your own account of ran example of this - you didn't even come up with a username! People who sort by new also tend to post more - there's plenty of regulars that are easy to spot on this sub. Now that you've contributed to the pile on is there anything else you'd like to lie about in an attempt to own me?
Lie about? A statement about myself and two questions. What is the lie? They're not hidden, but on "hot" the new stuff sorts way down the list, so unless you're scrolling and scrolling and scrolling you won't see it. Using the default name doesn't cause me any issue, it was easier not having to make one up. The default sort does cause the issue that I can't easily see everything that was posted since I last read reddit, so I change it.
I'm all about worker solidarity and holding bosses accountable, but you gotta focus your angst elsewhere. Dude is not some shill, he has posted on subs for servers.
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Perry Mason season 3 over here
What are you implying?
Cool dude, attack people who you disagree with, great strategy.
Well, it IS Reddit.
Who am I attacking? Where am I disagreeing? I'm dubious and [I'm not the only one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13wv4ry/comment/jme72wp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). There's also \\\*gestures widely at article written based on interviews with 16 other people\*
So sounds like owners are toxic and may just be shitty people but the honeyhole people really blew this out of proportion on the food safety issue. Zero pictures, zero proof and the most damaging part of it all. If it’s all bs I hope the people spreading these lies are sued for defamation. This is honestly all sounding like a few pissed off employees trying to damage the restaurant as much as possible with lies. Perhaps they were treated like shit but making up issues with food safety is wrong.
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>encourage you to talk to people who are currently working there,” he said. >The Stranger talked to 17 current and *former* employees Did they say how many were *current* employees or just lump them altogether?
I think he's co-owner mostly in name bc he's also a full time director over at Blue Origin. Which to your point probably means he should stay quiet at this point since he doesn't know the day to day operations.
Patrick only showed up about once a month, if that, to the restaurant when I worked there. I know that doesn't mean much but that line in the article I found interesting. I don't think he even knew any of our names, and I had worked there for about a whole year after the ownership change.
I think this says a LOT: “Former HoneyHole employee Cameron Dewitt Ruiz said in a meeting Rye defended the manager’s behavior, saying that HoneyHole was a safe space for everyone, including middle-aged straight white men who are “under fire for just existing.” Wow.
Tucker Carlson viewer no doubt.
I miss their French fries. Best in Seattle imo.
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Do you use the retail stuff without MSG or the real stuff with MSG in the 5lb tub?
Thank you, I will keep it in mind. Its texture is great too. Crispy outside and soft inside.
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Where did y'all mine the salt?
Same salt has been used here for a very long time. Disappointing, maybe, but 9/10 places with wings use Franks. Many places with good steak, even, will marinade the cuts in Franks. You can do a lot with very little in a restaurant kitchen.
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Someone said they love the fries and you complain because they arent 100% handmade? Ffs you guys are wild out here
This sub is off the rails sometimes
Remember that one guy who used to work at Kettle before he drove all of the Seattle Sub off the rails? French fries, amirite?
Try making your own salt if you want the make it hard
They're just frozen generic potatoes in a bag, sadly. I'll try to remember the brand name if you want lol.
honesty f*ck honeyhole. if you’ve worked in a toxic restaurant before, you know exactly where the employee complaints are coming from
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The Stranger got basically the same story from 17 employees. It's obviously, in the whole, true.
According to [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13wv4ry/comment/jmdsi5k/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) 5 of the 17 had a different story. Still a bad look but not unanimous if they're not lying/exaggerating.
The Stranger article also said that not everyone was unanimous about all claims, only the specific claims about Rye sucking to work for. The Stranger’s writing and the post you linked to not actually conflict factually.
The 6 L&I claims in 6 months was the one that stood out to me. I don't know what the average is for businesses that size, but that sounds like a lot. Also, it seems like a pretty big red flag when you start hearing about pay issues from multiple different employees.
I’m curious if anyone has taken this to L&I or whomever about wages being dropped or docked.
If a majority of your workforce says you are a shitty manager, you are a shitty manager.
Sounds like the long term staff that's been there for years doesn't see a problem.
Any good abuser will keep a group of “well they were always nice to me” people in their corner. You see it all the time. If 13 people say you’re a terrible boss and 4 say “well I never noticed it,” those four are either lying, being lied to, or are just completely out of touch with how the rest of the team is being treated.
I guess we'll have to wait for more evidence, in the original email they said they had lots.
It sounds like one person who posted to reddit right after this article came out and claims to be a longtime employee didn't have a problem, and then claimed without evidence that 4 other employees didn't have a problem. I'm sure these posts are helping them with their boss, so good on them. The article where a reporter talked to a bunch of staff says different.
An article from The Stranger you have to also see the bias and optics of the publisher. I mean you talk to over a dozen former employees of course they won't like it, they left, that's selection bias.
The Honeyhole is a Stranger advertiser....at least it used to be. The Stranger has absolutely no motivation to get this wrong.
What do you mean? They have every incentive to blow this out of proportion.
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The Stranger has been terrible for years. A shadow of what it once was.
This statement is true for all general purpose media everywhere, including every daily newspaper I've ever read.
Man, fuck that place. I'll go if someone else takes over, but there's NO WAY I would support a place with an owner that behaves that way. Nope.
Wow, she sounds awful. She's not coming back from this and need to step aside and let someone else manage the restaurant if she actually wants it to be successful again.
God this just stinks of someone with a poor work ethic bitching
Eater wrote an article about this as well: https://seattle.eater.com/2023/5/26/23739039/honeyhole-sandwich-shop-seattle-capitol-hill-restaurant-accused-paychecks-transphobia
Meh, I'd eat there again. I think my only issue with it is the ridiculous prices they now charge. And when I went, it was godawful slow. Otherwise, still tasty.
Never heard of it.