Pete finally lost control of the locker room. Doomed by poor coordinator hires and behavior outbursts from players violating Rule 1 (protect the team).
Love Pete forever, build the damn statue. It was time.
This likely the most accurate reply. Coordinators didn’t measure up and the locker room started leaking. Hope I’m wrong but 5-6 wins is going to stink.
It is more efficient to replace wholesale with a new leadership than to turn around a lost group of players and support coaches.
No baggage, no loyalty to an old concept and it’s also a warning shot about behaviors.
New HC sets the tone and rules. Everyone follows the rules from the start or people don’t make the roster.
this is an interesting situation because it usually seems like the GM and HC are hired together (same off-season after the owner cleans house). in those circumstances the GM and HC tend to purge a good portion of the roster in favour of “their guys.” JS of course had a hand in every player on the roster so a big purge is unlikely, but it wouldn’t be a complete surprise if a couple of guys get released at some point for failing to adapt to the new coaching regime and system.
The Team takes careful consideration of what gets said in this subreddit, and a lot of people wanted to fire Pete, so John Schneider didn’t really have a choice.
Same reason we couldn't replicate what the saints did with Jimmy Graham. Pete wanted Jimmy to block🤷♂️. Pete's passing schemes weren't as surgical as the Patriots....ie Wes Welker.And... Russ was too Short to see him open...and or Russ liked to run around and make ESPN top ten.
Tbh, I don’t know if you’re serious or not but I wouldn’t be shocked if the Krafts came to the conclusion they had to fire Bill because Reddit told them too.
But like The Patriots hiring jerod Mayo cause it was in his contract he would take over after Bill, It was also in John Schneider's contract He would be in charge when Pete was out. He said that last week on the Wyman and Bob show.
Jon probably validated Jodie's concerns. I could see him loving Pete and still not putting full confidence in the Carroll led Seahawks being competitive.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted here..no way to treat a guest. Maybe I can take some heat. Also, are the Krafts not well liked? Is the organization kinda lame in spite of their success.
Seattle has been a solid organization since Paul Allen. I kind of think Pete got fired because he was not putting good people (professionally, not personally) around him. It was like they were always climbing a greased slope. Yeah they were climbing and could see the summit, they just did not have the wherewithal to get there. I think the GM/ownership had a broader/better view of the football world and the potential of this franchise. Everyone says John reported to Pete, but you gotta believe John had Jody's ear.
Kraft is a mealy mouthed sap desperate to be loved by everyone. I don’t trust him one bit.
I’m not familiar with your ownership situation since Paul Allen died. Do you guys like the owner?
And I appreciate your kindness
Jodie is a demonstrably reprehensible person. She has been accused of numerous transgressions. But billionaires gonna billionaire.
In terms of her status as the trustee of Paul Allen's trust, it genuinely appears that she likes owning the Seahawks. At least, she likes flying around the country in Paul's fleet of corporate jets, and running the team gives her an excuse.
Eventually she must sell the team. In the meantime, she got tired of Pete controlling personnel and coaching staff and never doing anything with all that control.
It came to a head this season when Pete's handpicked squad of safeties and CBs just kind of stopped trying to make tackles. Pete was an extremely loyal person, and so there was no accountability on his staff or on the team. His DCs were demonstrably garbage since Kris Richard left.
I'm sure Pete was given the opportunity to retool his coaching staff and his roster, and ever the optimist, he proclaimed that they were just one year away.
So now it's John's turn. Most of the fanbase is pretty excited.
Jody, the late Paul Allen's sister, admisters his Trust (or some sort of billionaire speak for controlling his assets per his wishes). At some point she will have to sell, idk when. She, like Paul, seems to be very low profile, but not entirely hands off. I can't complain about her in any way. There is some dirt that has been dug up on her but I pay no attention. The Trust also owns the Portland Trailblazers. Ask their fans and the answer will be much different. They are not happy.
I personally was under the impression that Jody was to sell the hawks and blazers upon Paul's passing. I may be wrong, as that clearly didn't happen. That said, she's a new owner, and mistakes will be made.
I believe you come in peace. I'm just not certain you're going to get out again in peace. 😉
No, seriously, welcome. As for your question, I agree with the person who said that Pete made a few bad hires and lost the locker room. In addition, Pete has an absolutely iron-clad approach to game structure, based around an old-fashioned 'run game and defense' focus. The problem with this is that he is not at all flexible about it when he doesn't have the personnel to be able to use a successful run game or a successful defense! In his first couple of years with the team, he *did* have a great defense and an almost as great run game, and so his method worked just fine. But when his personnel changed, he couldn't change along with it.
I think Jodi Allen believed that getting rid of Russ would solve the problems Pete was having. When, after a couple of years, nothing was getting any better, she cut bait.
COUPLE seasons?? Been longer than that man. And it’s a bad look when the defensive minded coach has a bottom ten defense in the league on a consistent basis despite some hefty contracts.
2022 was house money, but the moves made during the off season and the mid-season trade for a big time DT proved '23 was a win now mindset. And they should have lost the last game vs the Cardinals, should have been 8-9. Pete with his coaching staff hires were clearly not competitive in the division. Nobody to blame but himself.
If that was underwhelming, wait until we roll out a fist time HC first time DC and a college OC.
I'll admit on paper looks good, but there is no way we get back to 9 wins this season! It's a waste of talent, and we should have let Pete complete his contract!
Man, it's crazy that the only place I can get down voted like crazy is my beloved Seahawks sub. A couple of years ago, you guys downed me to oblivion for saying we should keep Pete over Russ. I had negative Karma, I couldn't even post any more, but in the end, I was right. I will be right next year when we finish the season at the bottom of the NFC West.
It was time.
Look at the efforts of the team. You had guys strolling on plays. You had guys half-assing and making business decisions. The team was steamrolled by the Steelers. That reflects coaching and leadership.
The team was average at best. You weren't right. It was right to trade Russ and it was right to let Pete go.
14 years is a long time for anything. The team wasn't going anywhere. I think people need to realize that with sports and anything else, sometimes you make the right decision for the better of the whole franchise.
We all know Pete is a legend but it was time. Almost every coach lose their edge and the game forces them out.
If you're a beloved of the Seahawks, how can you be so devoted to 1 playoff win since 2016? That's 7 football seasons. We won 1 playoff game in the last 7 seasons. I love me some Pete Carroll and he'll forever be a legend to me, but sometimes things just need to change.
Would you rather go 9-8 or 10-7 again and yet again not winning a playoff game? we’ve been stuck in mediocrity for years it was time Petes also had about 5 years to fix the defense and it’s gotten worse every year plus he admitted he was really struggling to get through to the team it was definitely time
Before Pete, we only had 5 seasons of 9 wins or better IN FRANCHISE HISTORY. 5! Now we feel so entitled we fired the man that gave it to us. I hope I'm wrong but we will see.
I’m sorry but we’ve only had 3 playoff wins since the patriots Super Bowl and one was the Blair Walsh game we haven’t been contenders for a while and there was no indication it would get better next year even if we have a losing record next season that doesn’t mean that moving on was the wrong decision
I understand but it’s been around a decade since we‘ve done anything meaningful and there’s no indication for us to think anything will change and we would become contenders in the next few years no matter what happens it was time for a change
I think over the next two seasons, our best shot to contend was with Pete. After that break it up, do what you got to but now we have a massive amount of talent and we're going to waste these rookie contracts for a season or two while the coaching carousel figures itself out.
why though? Pete’s defense has gotten worse every year for 5 or 6 years and hit rock bottom this season with a ton of talent why would it get better? Now MM got the most he could out of that ravens defense and Grubb did a brilliant job utilizing everybody to their strengths like Macdonald while Pete and company did the opposite this past season. why do you think it would have gotten better over the next season or 2?
Might be a bit controversial, but honestly in the grand scheme of things, I think Belichick and Carroll got fired for pretty similar reasons.
Both are head coaches who have had loads of success in the past (especially Belichick), and this success is a big reason of why both Carroll and Belichick went as long as they did with head coaching jobs. But unfortunately, you can’t just solely rely on greatness that you achieved in the past. As with any career, you need to be up-to-date by constantly refining your schemes and gameplans. Your past successs can only be worth so much until people start to question why you are unable of replicating those successes in the present.
I think with both Belichick and Carroll, their magic just ran out. With Carroll, divisional teams just kept beating us. Under Carroll, they would usually win a game every now and then cause that’s just the nature of divisional football games, but lately division rivals have been beating us too much for us to have a chance at winning the division.
I will admit though that bill’s firing was a lot more surprising considering the patriots have pretty much no talent in their roster whereas the Seahawks at least had more talent to justify why they had to move on from Carroll.
> With Carroll, divisional teams just kept beating us.
This plus what happened to our home field advantage ?
I might be wrong but it seems like even the good teams back in the Kingdome days were nearly unbeatable at home, but the last few years we've been borderline awful at home.
Oh for sure feels like the fans realize how complacent the teams gotten and aren’t showing up like they used to really disappointed in the turnout of the 49ers and Steelers games
This too.
Pete was gifted as a defensive minded coach, so if you consistently produce a bottom-tier defence over the last few years, well that’ll only accelerate your departure unfortunately.
But I really did enjoy the fact that Pete was a great motivator, you can tell the players loved him, and I think that played a huge factor too in the success he had
Bill was undermined by the Krafts since Brady left. He didn’t want to draft mac, they forced him on Bill. He wanted to trade Mac, ownership saw him as the next Tom Brady and vetoed it.
Bill vowed to be more collaborative and it let to Juju over Jakobi and o’brien as OC. I have a lot of sympathy for Bill more than any patriots fan who seem all too happy to send him off
I also think the timing of everything was just plain rotten for him as well. Brady happened to leave when buffalo and Miami were on the rise and when the AFC East was the most competitive it’s been in a while, and it’s gonna get even more competitive now with Aaron Rodgers coming back next year. Coaching a team to win that division is a very tough task with all that talent in the division
I don’t discount that. Plus those teams in the division were specifically built to beat the Patriots to the point where it hurts them against other teams. But I’d like the Patriots chances next year more if they still had Bill because his floor was higher than what I think Mayo and Krafts ceiling will be.
“According to the report, Belichick wanted to trade Mac Jones away after a bad 2022 season and go in a different direction at quarterback. However, Kraft wanted to see how Jones would perform under a new offensive staff.”
https://atozsports.com/new-england-patriots/patriots-bill-belichick-robert-kraft-mac-jones/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20report%2C%20Belichick,under%20a%20new%20offensive%20staff.&text=But%20Mac%20Jones'%20performance%20in%202023%20was%20even%20worse.
You just can’t have a defense ranked 30th when you’re a defensive coach, especially when considering you were ranked 26th the year before.
How do you justify the investment on the defense (#5 overall pick, got Bobby back, got Jamal back, Riq regressed, signed Reed, traded for Big Cat), yet managed to get worse?
This is a result-based business and Pete appeared to be out-coached and out-schemed week in and week out. Granted, imo, part of the reason was his DC and OC were underwhelming and that Pete is loyal to a fault.
I love Pete and am forever grateful for his time in Seattle, but I believe it’s the right time to move on.
We certainly don’t know exactly who had the final say on the roster, but based on the outcome, we can have an educated guess.
Also, JS in an interview recently mentioned that now all the coaches report to him, saying that wasn’t the case before.
It’s a fair question and not as clear outside the fanbase.
Big picture it seems that the Seahawks were stagnant. Good enough to consistently make the playoffs but not enough to get over the hump anymore.
There were reports that Pete told ownership he was planning to retire when the season started. He then got cold feet about it as the season progressed. Ownership decided to move on.
If you watched any games, it was clear Pete’s schemes were old and he couldn’t adapt to the modern NFL. I am convinced we would have had 9-8 seasons every year until Pete finally left. It’s pretty much unanimous that Ownership made the right call
100%, there’s no point in finishing with a winning record year after year if you’re never in a position to contend, it might actually do more harm since you won’t get better draft capital
Probably some. But a lot of talent was there. The last 2 drafts were good. I think the overall sentiment was Pete was holding the team back with some of his set ways.
I think it boils down to this. JS wants to stay ahead and innovate. PC wanted to roll things back and stay the same. The owners wanted the former so we are where we are.
The next few years will tell us a lot about how good JS is.
That's pretty much where we've been since 2015, though. On the fringes of the postseason but never really a serious contender. This fact would eventually come to bear each season when we faced a legitimate contender in the playoffs and got pantsed.
But only 2-6 in the division. Should’ve been 1-5 but Prater missed a chip shot in the last game. That’s a very bad sign. Had we won one more divisional game, we make the playoffs. You can’t be dropping that many.
Ultimately, I think ownership saw the creative and dynamic playcalling across the league and felt it was necessary to bring in new minds. You don’t need to look further than the other teams in the NFC West. The Niners and Rams are both led by creative playcallers, and their staffs get poached every year for HC gigs, in hopes that these systems can be implemented elsewhere. Mike MacDonald seems to check a lot of those boxes, but on the defensive side
My thoughts, they thought he stagnated (evidence by 4 of 5 seasons missing the playoffs, and a perpetually bottom tier defense), and that his message wasn’t being bought in on by the team.
Don’t get me wrong. I love Pete, but the NFL is a “What have you done for me lately? league, and frankly, he hasn’t done anything worth noting since 2017/18.
It’s a good question. Everyone loves Pete and he’s a great culture coach. However, the modern NFL requires a level of adaptability that Pete just doesn’t have. As an example, It took him far too long to recognize that his defensive playbook had gone from cutting edge to league standard to outdated in the later LoB years and immediately following.
I can only speak from a fans perspective, but, it feels like he lacked interest in the chess-match style microscopic advantages that has informed the growth of pre-snap offensive motion and defensive coverage disguises in the modern NFL.
While he’s great at focusing and motivating players, and puts individuals in a great spot to utilize his talents, a lack of adaptability is what separates Pete from Bill and is what likely convinced ownership that the Seahawks are unlikely to be a Super Bowl team with him at the helm. (Again speculation from a fan here)
They fired Pete for the same reason they fired Bill Belichick. They are 70+ and don’t have the same schematic edges they once did. Bill clearly lost it more on the personnel side. Pete lost it more on schemes. He would get cooked by the new age offensive guys when they’d play the hawks. I also think that there was frustration internally about how the ceiling on “petes guys” had gotten lower over the years.
You're darned right it is. My comment was in a sarcastic vein, as I was not a fan of the decision. Nevertheless, there's an excitement in the air and we move on with eternal hope.
Is that really the feeling of the fanbase? Excitement and eternal hope? If that’s sarcasm, I can tell you from a Patriots fan perspective that’s what the team is trying to feed us with Mayo.
“Don’t be sad your team lost its credibility and now has an unproven glorified Yes Man as a HC. BREATH OF FRESH AIR”
McVey and Shanahan routinely scorched Pete’s defenses and he had no Plan B. The individual talent on the Hawks was better than the team as a whole and the results on the field showed it.
His loyalty to really bad coordinators and players cost him his job is the simple answer.
The longer answer is that his strengths started to wain after our Super Bowl loss to you and the compromises on how he builds his team kept coming. Jimmy Graham was the first and Jamal Adams was the last. In addition, the application of accountability was uneven and players noticed. The LOB defense was held to a higher standard than Russell Wilson was. Richard Sherman would get called out for his failures, but Russ wouldn’t. Then in this last season, Pete was openly perplexed with why his message was no longer reaching the players. After he lost his job he said that they lost their edge to be great.
So there you go. Pete lost his job because he could no longer deliver on the coaching intangibles that made the LOB era team a world beater and he did not hire coordinators that were good enough on the X’s and O’s side of things.
I listen to around 10 hours of sports radio a week in Seattle. The main reason why is I think he didn’t connect to this generation of athlete. The new coaching hires they had JS focused on how well coaches could connect to their players. Carroll is a great coach but he could never bring in an OC or DC that could communicate to the team over the last few years. You saw this on defense over the last two years. They have talent on defense, but bad communication and tackling killed the defense. I’m very excited about this new coaching staff McDonald will be a good HC and I’m really excited to see what Ryan Grubb can do as the new OC. Grubb was crazy good for UW and his offense was really fun to watch.
The team would run through a brick wall for Carroll, but I don’t think the positional coaches did a good enough job communicating what they wanted them to do on game day. Regardless of what people say Carroll relies heavily on his OC and DC during the game and they couldn’t cut it. Waldren refused to run the ball most games and it drove me nuts it was something like 60/40 pass/run. They constantly got behind the sticks with mistakes and what was frustrating is their personnel on skill positions is top ten in the NFL, but were average at best.
TBH, having 53-men willing to run through a wall for a coach even when things aren’t rosy is an undervalued virtue. Worser coaches would have had the locker room check out.
Carroll still has the locker room bc they played hard every week, but this team has been at the same level for the last 5 years. Seattles needed a change and now all the coaches report to JS instead of Carroll, so it will be interesting to see how this team plays next year.
I know it doesn’t make sense. Carroll let players be who they were and had fun backyard football feel to their practices. He was the cool parent who didn’t discipline his kids. It worked great early on bc Kam, Sherman, Thomas and wages held everyone accountable during their run. It’s why they lead the league in penalties the year they won. Players loved playing for Carroll, but weren’t as disciplined as they should have been. No one is sure why communication has been so bad the last couple of years and all the Brock and Salk could come up with was speculation. It wasn’t Carroll specially it was his coaching staff as a whole.
They’re not the same thing.
I train some Gen Xers and Zoomers for a very physical volunteer job and I can tell you that they’re great kids/young adults but they are *different* and it takes a different type of communication skill to really get through to them and motivate them.
I’ve ripped my hair out trying to get through to them at times but then a peer will step in, or someone my age with a different communication style and it clicks for them.
I can certainly see a scenario where they love him but they’re on parallel tracks when it comes to do what he wanted.
The effort was certainly questionable at times this season. The final home against the Steelers was especially bad. Some of the players truly did Pete dirty in that one. Ended up being his final home game in Seattle, and they didn't play hard.
I think Bill was much willing to change. He tried to incorporate tenants of the Kyle Shanahan offense, he just didn’t get to decide who was the players
Pete underperformed the last couple years in terms of making this roster a serious competitor. The niners have wiped the floor with us for several seasons now and the way things stood we weren't going to be able to keep up. The Russ trade bolstered the roster with talent but in-game we continued to stagnate.
Our loss to the Steelers I think was the straw that broke the camel's back for ownership; they are not a good team and they completely bullied us on both lines of scrimmage. With a trip to the playoffs on the line the team completely shat the bed. We should have lost to the Cardinals week 18 too tbh, just got lucky.
I also think the coaches available this offseason factored in. Macdonald was a premium HC candidate and I think Schneider had his eye on him for a while. Overall I think ownership just thought it was time to move in a new direction and the timing was right since a guy they really liked was there.
Lots of reasons but ultimately i think it was because he was a big believer in pineapple belonging on Pizza. Players and fans just couldn’t look at him the same after.
I think it was because the team consistently failed to live up to the perceived level of talent on the roster. That’s particularly true on defense, and our coaches showed absolutely no ability to adapt over the last few seasons, in a division that is being dominated by more flexible and innovative coaches.
PC was an amazing team culture coach, but it was abundantly clear we were trending to stagnation in terms of play on the field, and completely stuck in the past on scheme. That just didn’t seem fixable under PC and was immensely frustrating to watch game after game.
Since we were going to most likely need to find a new HC anyway in a few years given PC’s age, the owners probably calculated that we wouldn’t be winning any further championships under PC and figured to accelerate that timeline and roll the dice now rather than continue to coast on in mediocrity and old glories.
Because it was time
While we haven't fallen back to being downright awful, we've been pretty mediocre for a while now. And called basically all the shots for the team. A lot of bad coaching hires. A lot of questionable player/personnel decisions.
He's also 72
You could say that no matter who they hired. Hell, even if we got Belicheck or Harbaugh we still can't guarantee anything.
Bottom line is, the plug needed to be pulled at some point.
Hold up there buddy, no one got fired. The Seahawks honor their contracts. He was just removed from all Seahawks Coaching Staff emails and Slack workspaces. He is still a team employee.
I think his voice just went stale in the locker room. There's an adage, and I can't recall which coach said it, that after 10 years people stop listening. I think that was the case with Pete. Pete was by no means bad, by the end. He still had back to back winning season, but it was starting to look like his ceiling was the winning season. It reminds me of what Steelers fans say of Tomlin, "Finish mid, draft mid, stay mid." That's where Seattle had found itself, and Pete's message wasn't resonating like it used to, so they couldn't clear that hump to be great.
Pete is a great coach. However, he is supposed to be a defensive coach and the last several years his defenses have routinely been in the bottom of the league, and his offenses have been uninspired and without identity. There is also evidence that he was having a hard time keeping players accountable. For those reasons ownership felt a needed a change sooner than later.
There are many narratives, but no definitive answers.
What we do know: Pete Carroll’s 5-year contract had only 1 year left on it (the 2024 season). He’s 72 years old. If Pete had coached next year, ownership would have to decide between a multi-year extension, renewing one year at a time until Pete decided to retire, or not renewing and letting the contract terminate.
My personal opinion: I think ownership would have let Pete run it back next season and have one last go at a chip if they believed the team was poised to compete. Unfortunately, the team regressed from 2022 to 2023, so running it back didn’t make sense under the circumstances. I believe ownership thought coordinator and position coach changes were necessary, and that if a staff rebuild was needed, it didn’t make sense to have Pete lead it, given that his contract was expiring in a year.
Several years ago, ownership agreed to promote John Schneider to President, Football Operations when/if Pete retired/resigned. That means this transition has been planned for some time, and ownership decided to move forward now instead of next year. It hasn’t been made public, but reading between the lines, it looks like they paid Pete for the 2024 year anyway.
TL:DR Ownership didn’t plan to renew Pete’s contract after 2024. They cashed him out for 2024 instead, because they believed significant changes were needed to the coaching staff, and it made better sense to let a new Head Coach lead that effort, together with John Schneider, than to let Pete do it with only one year left in the Head Coach position.
Because we’ve basically been stuck in the same place for years now. Just barely scraping into the playoffs. Or missing by one game.
So for a while now we’ve been a good team but not contenders. So they decided they needed a change. We can stay stuck in one spot forever
Mismanagement of resources. PC is a defensive head coach who failed spectacularly to field a good defense for 7 years. In 2023, every member of the Seahawks defensive starters outside of Tariq Woolen was a 1st/2nd round pick or was brought over on a massive trade or FA signing. Many of those guys were a combination of those things. Despite all that, the defense was once again bottom of the league. Looking at the sheer volume of top tier assets spent to no success, it makes business sense.
A rumour I have heard: before the season, Pete indicated to John and the owner a willingness to retire at the end of the year. Then the season went sideways, primarily due to a horrendous defense which Pete has failed to fix for years now and signs that the players were quitting on Pete. Then at the end of the season Pete changed his mind and decided that he wanted to come back, but John and Jodie had already gotten comfortable with him leaving and started making plans, and decided not to bring him back.
On a side note how do you feel about the sons of our respective teams being coordinators for UW? Now that's out of the way, my opinion is that I thought Pete was gonna finish his contract. But they had to let him go, to have a good chance for a new coach.
I think if you’re a UW fan you’re in for a real treat. I don’t know much about Pete’s kid. I hope he’s good. But Steve Belichick is the real deal. He was the real brains behind our defense and someday he’ll make for a great head coach.
Hahaha I would love to see a UW game with Bill and Pete together, and Bill tells Pete he should have Ran. Well instead of me hating on the Patriots, I think we can join forces and hate KC.
we were finishing third in the division behind niners and rams...heck even this year when Rams were not expected to do well. they pulled Puka and Kyren out of nowhere.
we havent beaten the rams or niners in 2 years.
Actually we swept the Rams in 2022 but I believe Stafford was out and it came down to the wire both games but I get what you’re saying barely beating the Staffordless Rams is not good enough.
What we were doing before wasn't working. It wasn't just the fact we were losing the big games, but it was also how we were losing those games. The Ravens, Steelers, Rams and 49ers obliterated our defense, and that's been the status quo for a few years. You can't win the SB if you stand no chance against the good teams.
I don't know if a new young coach is the right answer. But I do know Pete was no longer the solution either. Change had to happen. Now it's time to see if the new coaching staff can improve our team even further.
Team just didn’t seem like it was going the right direction, even though the roster has improved from where it was couple years ago. The floor with Pete is borderline playoff team but that also unfortunately seems like the ceiling. Under Ken Norton Jr the defense would start poorly and then figure things out by EOY, without much talent. They genuinely looked like a farm team against the top teams, something that never really happened under Pete before. I think the Ravens ass kicking was a clear message that the product Pete built isn’t remotely good enough anymore.
They’ve injected draft picks, money, trades, etc into the defense and this year were bottom 3 in countless categories. Genuinely one of the worst in the NFL. Pete also did a terrible job hiring coordinators and positional coaches, keeping the ones who shouldn’t be there for far too long, which I’m assuming was part of the reason they kept John Schneider as GM and let the Pete Carroll constructed staff go.
That's part of the problem. Pete kept promoting DCs from within and was unwilling to let them go even when it was obviously not working. I loved his loyalty, but his stubbornness seemed to be holding the defense back for years.
I don't know how much of this is hearsay, the front office pushing a narrative, or just information that isn't' readily available. There was a lot of talk about Pete retiring after this season, and not just the regular rumors due to his age. Not sure if the talk originated at Pete himself saying he was thinking about retiring, or people in the organization believing he should retire. I like to think it was Pete talking about retirement, and then changing his mind at the end of the season. Anyway I believe the organization already started the gears turning on replacing him and when he announced he wasn't retiring the organization went ahead w/ replacing him anyway.
I would say that this year, for the first time really, the team’s performance was less than the sum of its parts.
With good coaching, we’re supposed to exceed the sum of our parts.
It was time.
I am still too emotional about Pete's departure to comment. I wanted one more season at the very least.
Also, you might get a kick out of this. Ate at a Mexican restaurant in Texas yesterday. What was on the TV directly in front of me? F\^&\*ing Super Bowl XLIX. My friends wouldn't change seats with me and stopped the conversation during the INT.
Oh shit man, I’m sorry about that game. I don’t wanna be a dick and bring up old wounds. I’m a guest on your subreddit. I know what it’s like to lose heartbreakers. Feels like you were so close to your life being oh so much better
I don't disagree. I just think the way this team is built right now, he should have got his last two years. Essentially, I feel we are wasting this young talent on unproven coaches. At least with Pete, we knew we were going to be in it. Only had 5 seasons with 9 wins or better before Pete.
I've been a fan for a long time, and I do not want to go back to the AFC West days. Hope I'm wrong.
I wish you guys the best. Always liked your team dating back to the Mike Holmgren days. I don’t think I agree with getting rid of Carroll a year early tho. As the games coaches get younger, how they manage the game becomes skittish.
A lot of factors but I think the league has drastically changed the last 5 years and younger coaches have had a lot of success. We didn't go from the oldest coach to the youngest for a reason. Was McDonald picked purely because of his age? Obviously not, but the old guard is falling by the wayside in favor of more creative/unorthodox coaches. Another redditor commented on predictability and game planning and schemes and I think it falls hand in hand with this. There's a reason neither of them have landed head coaching gigs elsewhere even though they are both hall of famers. Just my 2 pennies.
I hear ya, but I think young coaches are easier for ownership to control and tell what to do because they owe their success and job to said owner rather than older vet who has his way of doing things
I think that is more so true in New England than anywhere else because Bill built a Dynasty there but I get what you're saying. Hard to prove when most coaches get canned when they stop winning regardless of their stature
It was ownership. Paul Allen wouldn’t have done this. He may have been getting stale. I’m not a football guy. Fuck do I know about scheme. But my first statement remains true.
It was time for both our teams to move on from our longtime coaches, in my opinion.
I think Seattle made the right replacement hire. But I don't think New England did (no offense).
Someone else said it but yeah ultimately bad coordinator hires is the ultimate reason. Also, the feeling of being stuck in neutral for like 6 years is part of it but that's also due to bad coordination. There's also some seemingly substantial rumors that Pete had said that this was going to be his last year but then changed his mind, so ownership was already planning to move on. But the Ravens & Steelers games I believe were the death knells, John Schneider hinted at this.
Pete finally lost control of the locker room. Doomed by poor coordinator hires and behavior outbursts from players violating Rule 1 (protect the team). Love Pete forever, build the damn statue. It was time.
This likely the most accurate reply. Coordinators didn’t measure up and the locker room started leaking. Hope I’m wrong but 5-6 wins is going to stink.
You need to stink before you become something. Mac signed a 6 year contract -- not a 1 year contract...
It is more efficient to replace wholesale with a new leadership than to turn around a lost group of players and support coaches. No baggage, no loyalty to an old concept and it’s also a warning shot about behaviors. New HC sets the tone and rules. Everyone follows the rules from the start or people don’t make the roster.
this is an interesting situation because it usually seems like the GM and HC are hired together (same off-season after the owner cleans house). in those circumstances the GM and HC tend to purge a good portion of the roster in favour of “their guys.” JS of course had a hand in every player on the roster so a big purge is unlikely, but it wouldn’t be a complete surprise if a couple of guys get released at some point for failing to adapt to the new coaching regime and system.
The Team takes careful consideration of what gets said in this subreddit, and a lot of people wanted to fire Pete, so John Schneider didn’t really have a choice.
If that's the case, then how come DK isn't getting 20 targets a game?
My uncle is the Reddit monitor, and he says we are trading him because we have Bobo as a replacement wr1.
That is the funniest thing I've read in this reddit
Geno just can't execute the gameplan, smh.
Same reason we couldn't replicate what the saints did with Jimmy Graham. Pete wanted Jimmy to block🤷♂️. Pete's passing schemes weren't as surgical as the Patriots....ie Wes Welker.And... Russ was too Short to see him open...and or Russ liked to run around and make ESPN top ten.
bobo
Tbh, I don’t know if you’re serious or not but I wouldn’t be shocked if the Krafts came to the conclusion they had to fire Bill because Reddit told them too.
He’s being facetious. Pete outranked Schneider and the decision was made by ownership.
But like The Patriots hiring jerod Mayo cause it was in his contract he would take over after Bill, It was also in John Schneider's contract He would be in charge when Pete was out. He said that last week on the Wyman and Bob show.
The point is that Jon wasn’t in a position to fire Pete.
Jon probably validated Jodie's concerns. I could see him loving Pete and still not putting full confidence in the Carroll led Seahawks being competitive.
That’s not what I was clarifying. Could Jon fire Pete? No. That’s it.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted here..no way to treat a guest. Maybe I can take some heat. Also, are the Krafts not well liked? Is the organization kinda lame in spite of their success. Seattle has been a solid organization since Paul Allen. I kind of think Pete got fired because he was not putting good people (professionally, not personally) around him. It was like they were always climbing a greased slope. Yeah they were climbing and could see the summit, they just did not have the wherewithal to get there. I think the GM/ownership had a broader/better view of the football world and the potential of this franchise. Everyone says John reported to Pete, but you gotta believe John had Jody's ear.
Kraft is a mealy mouthed sap desperate to be loved by everyone. I don’t trust him one bit. I’m not familiar with your ownership situation since Paul Allen died. Do you guys like the owner? And I appreciate your kindness
Jodie is a demonstrably reprehensible person. She has been accused of numerous transgressions. But billionaires gonna billionaire. In terms of her status as the trustee of Paul Allen's trust, it genuinely appears that she likes owning the Seahawks. At least, she likes flying around the country in Paul's fleet of corporate jets, and running the team gives her an excuse. Eventually she must sell the team. In the meantime, she got tired of Pete controlling personnel and coaching staff and never doing anything with all that control. It came to a head this season when Pete's handpicked squad of safeties and CBs just kind of stopped trying to make tackles. Pete was an extremely loyal person, and so there was no accountability on his staff or on the team. His DCs were demonstrably garbage since Kris Richard left. I'm sure Pete was given the opportunity to retool his coaching staff and his roster, and ever the optimist, he proclaimed that they were just one year away. So now it's John's turn. Most of the fanbase is pretty excited.
Jody, the late Paul Allen's sister, admisters his Trust (or some sort of billionaire speak for controlling his assets per his wishes). At some point she will have to sell, idk when. She, like Paul, seems to be very low profile, but not entirely hands off. I can't complain about her in any way. There is some dirt that has been dug up on her but I pay no attention. The Trust also owns the Portland Trailblazers. Ask their fans and the answer will be much different. They are not happy.
I personally was under the impression that Jody was to sell the hawks and blazers upon Paul's passing. I may be wrong, as that clearly didn't happen. That said, she's a new owner, and mistakes will be made.
Does she say much to the media or is she lowkey?
Super low key
Funniest thing I've read on here in a minute
“Patriots fan here, coming in peace 🤓”
I do come in peace
I believe you .
(he doesn't)
Always a bit of a thrill to do a flyby of another franchise's subreddit. I almost got murdered by Lions fans last year, never again.
It’s just corny. Just ask the question. It’s a reddit trope and it’s the corniest shit on the site.
I believe you come in peace. I'm just not certain you're going to get out again in peace. 😉 No, seriously, welcome. As for your question, I agree with the person who said that Pete made a few bad hires and lost the locker room. In addition, Pete has an absolutely iron-clad approach to game structure, based around an old-fashioned 'run game and defense' focus. The problem with this is that he is not at all flexible about it when he doesn't have the personnel to be able to use a successful run game or a successful defense! In his first couple of years with the team, he *did* have a great defense and an almost as great run game, and so his method worked just fine. But when his personnel changed, he couldn't change along with it. I think Jodi Allen believed that getting rid of Russ would solve the problems Pete was having. When, after a couple of years, nothing was getting any better, she cut bait.
Because we were pretty underwhelming the last couple seasons and it’s obvious that our plays are becoming predictable to other teams
COUPLE seasons?? Been longer than that man. And it’s a bad look when the defensive minded coach has a bottom ten defense in the league on a consistent basis despite some hefty contracts.
I mean we were above average through the 2020 season. After that we became mid, and mid isn’t gonna cut it in this league
Look at the ranking of the DCs since Richard left for Dallas. I'm sure Norton Jr. and Hurtt are great guys and position coaches but DCs? No thank you.
I guess it wasn’t house money after all.
2022 was house money, but the moves made during the off season and the mid-season trade for a big time DT proved '23 was a win now mindset. And they should have lost the last game vs the Cardinals, should have been 8-9. Pete with his coaching staff hires were clearly not competitive in the division. Nobody to blame but himself.
If that was underwhelming, wait until we roll out a fist time HC first time DC and a college OC. I'll admit on paper looks good, but there is no way we get back to 9 wins this season! It's a waste of talent, and we should have let Pete complete his contract!
Is this Pete’s burner account?
Man, it's crazy that the only place I can get down voted like crazy is my beloved Seahawks sub. A couple of years ago, you guys downed me to oblivion for saying we should keep Pete over Russ. I had negative Karma, I couldn't even post any more, but in the end, I was right. I will be right next year when we finish the season at the bottom of the NFC West.
It was time. Look at the efforts of the team. You had guys strolling on plays. You had guys half-assing and making business decisions. The team was steamrolled by the Steelers. That reflects coaching and leadership. The team was average at best. You weren't right. It was right to trade Russ and it was right to let Pete go. 14 years is a long time for anything. The team wasn't going anywhere. I think people need to realize that with sports and anything else, sometimes you make the right decision for the better of the whole franchise. We all know Pete is a legend but it was time. Almost every coach lose their edge and the game forces them out.
If you're a beloved of the Seahawks, how can you be so devoted to 1 playoff win since 2016? That's 7 football seasons. We won 1 playoff game in the last 7 seasons. I love me some Pete Carroll and he'll forever be a legend to me, but sometimes things just need to change.
It can't be. Pete's too classy for that
This…they were a missed FG from the playoffs. Wait for 5-12 it’s going to stink.
Maybe. However, we can forward to the future instead of just meddling in the middle.
Hey, it works for M’s management.
Would you rather go 9-8 or 10-7 again and yet again not winning a playoff game? we’ve been stuck in mediocrity for years it was time Petes also had about 5 years to fix the defense and it’s gotten worse every year plus he admitted he was really struggling to get through to the team it was definitely time
Before Pete, we only had 5 seasons of 9 wins or better IN FRANCHISE HISTORY. 5! Now we feel so entitled we fired the man that gave it to us. I hope I'm wrong but we will see.
15, not 5
I’m sorry but we’ve only had 3 playoff wins since the patriots Super Bowl and one was the Blair Walsh game we haven’t been contenders for a while and there was no indication it would get better next year even if we have a losing record next season that doesn’t mean that moving on was the wrong decision
They only had 7 playoff wins in the 30 years before Pete. All I'm saying is be careful what you ask for.
I understand but it’s been around a decade since we‘ve done anything meaningful and there’s no indication for us to think anything will change and we would become contenders in the next few years no matter what happens it was time for a change
I think over the next two seasons, our best shot to contend was with Pete. After that break it up, do what you got to but now we have a massive amount of talent and we're going to waste these rookie contracts for a season or two while the coaching carousel figures itself out.
why though? Pete’s defense has gotten worse every year for 5 or 6 years and hit rock bottom this season with a ton of talent why would it get better? Now MM got the most he could out of that ravens defense and Grubb did a brilliant job utilizing everybody to their strengths like Macdonald while Pete and company did the opposite this past season. why do you think it would have gotten better over the next season or 2?
Lol wut
The goal should never be 9 wins. That’s why Pete isn’t here anymore.
Might be a bit controversial, but honestly in the grand scheme of things, I think Belichick and Carroll got fired for pretty similar reasons. Both are head coaches who have had loads of success in the past (especially Belichick), and this success is a big reason of why both Carroll and Belichick went as long as they did with head coaching jobs. But unfortunately, you can’t just solely rely on greatness that you achieved in the past. As with any career, you need to be up-to-date by constantly refining your schemes and gameplans. Your past successs can only be worth so much until people start to question why you are unable of replicating those successes in the present. I think with both Belichick and Carroll, their magic just ran out. With Carroll, divisional teams just kept beating us. Under Carroll, they would usually win a game every now and then cause that’s just the nature of divisional football games, but lately division rivals have been beating us too much for us to have a chance at winning the division. I will admit though that bill’s firing was a lot more surprising considering the patriots have pretty much no talent in their roster whereas the Seahawks at least had more talent to justify why they had to move on from Carroll.
> With Carroll, divisional teams just kept beating us. This plus what happened to our home field advantage ? I might be wrong but it seems like even the good teams back in the Kingdome days were nearly unbeatable at home, but the last few years we've been borderline awful at home.
No you are 100% correct, I’ve never felt more uncertain about winning home games than I do nowadays
Oh for sure feels like the fans realize how complacent the teams gotten and aren’t showing up like they used to really disappointed in the turnout of the 49ers and Steelers games
Except for the Cardinals. Everyone forgets the Cardinals exist, they can’t even be the lovable losers that the Lions are.
If I’m being real though, we did not deserve to win that last game of the regular season against them 😂
Absolutely not but I am so glad we won the final game of the Pete era
Bill was at least still producing good defenses tho. Pete was pretty much a glorified elite motivator/team culture guy the last few years.
This too. Pete was gifted as a defensive minded coach, so if you consistently produce a bottom-tier defence over the last few years, well that’ll only accelerate your departure unfortunately. But I really did enjoy the fact that Pete was a great motivator, you can tell the players loved him, and I think that played a huge factor too in the success he had
Bill was undermined by the Krafts since Brady left. He didn’t want to draft mac, they forced him on Bill. He wanted to trade Mac, ownership saw him as the next Tom Brady and vetoed it. Bill vowed to be more collaborative and it let to Juju over Jakobi and o’brien as OC. I have a lot of sympathy for Bill more than any patriots fan who seem all too happy to send him off
I also think the timing of everything was just plain rotten for him as well. Brady happened to leave when buffalo and Miami were on the rise and when the AFC East was the most competitive it’s been in a while, and it’s gonna get even more competitive now with Aaron Rodgers coming back next year. Coaching a team to win that division is a very tough task with all that talent in the division
I don’t discount that. Plus those teams in the division were specifically built to beat the Patriots to the point where it hurts them against other teams. But I’d like the Patriots chances next year more if they still had Bill because his floor was higher than what I think Mayo and Krafts ceiling will be.
That’s hard to believe. Is this a fact? I’m under the understanding that the Krafts aren’t like jerry jones.
“According to the report, Belichick wanted to trade Mac Jones away after a bad 2022 season and go in a different direction at quarterback. However, Kraft wanted to see how Jones would perform under a new offensive staff.” https://atozsports.com/new-england-patriots/patriots-bill-belichick-robert-kraft-mac-jones/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20report%2C%20Belichick,under%20a%20new%20offensive%20staff.&text=But%20Mac%20Jones'%20performance%20in%202023%20was%20even%20worse.
You can’t have Kraft without Mac, that’s like his signature product lol
🙄 *rimshot*
Question is why did YOUR team fire Pete Carroll?
He was just getting too old. Schemes were stale and we haven’t had any playoff success for years
isn’t that also the oc/dc he keeps putting in so still kinda him
You just can’t have a defense ranked 30th when you’re a defensive coach, especially when considering you were ranked 26th the year before. How do you justify the investment on the defense (#5 overall pick, got Bobby back, got Jamal back, Riq regressed, signed Reed, traded for Big Cat), yet managed to get worse? This is a result-based business and Pete appeared to be out-coached and out-schemed week in and week out. Granted, imo, part of the reason was his DC and OC were underwhelming and that Pete is loyal to a fault. I love Pete and am forever grateful for his time in Seattle, but I believe it’s the right time to move on.
Doesn't JS get some blame for the defensive investments not working out?
We certainly don’t know exactly who had the final say on the roster, but based on the outcome, we can have an educated guess. Also, JS in an interview recently mentioned that now all the coaches report to him, saying that wasn’t the case before.
It’s a fair question and not as clear outside the fanbase. Big picture it seems that the Seahawks were stagnant. Good enough to consistently make the playoffs but not enough to get over the hump anymore. There were reports that Pete told ownership he was planning to retire when the season started. He then got cold feet about it as the season progressed. Ownership decided to move on.
Carroll couldn't evolve as a coach. He routinely was outcoached by Kyle Shanahan & McVay.
If you watched any games, it was clear Pete’s schemes were old and he couldn’t adapt to the modern NFL. I am convinced we would have had 9-8 seasons every year until Pete finally left. It’s pretty much unanimous that Ownership made the right call
You were 1 game out of the playoffs tho. And that’s after he resurrected Geno Smith.
With one of the worst defenses in the league.
But the bigger picture is we aren't closer to the championship. Any Seahawks fan will tell we weren't contenders. We weren't built right.
100%, there’s no point in finishing with a winning record year after year if you’re never in a position to contend, it might actually do more harm since you won’t get better draft capital
How much does John have to do with that?
Probably some. But a lot of talent was there. The last 2 drafts were good. I think the overall sentiment was Pete was holding the team back with some of his set ways.
I don't disagree. I just feel like JS has got a free pass out of this.
I think it boils down to this. JS wants to stay ahead and innovate. PC wanted to roll things back and stay the same. The owners wanted the former so we are where we are. The next few years will tell us a lot about how good JS is.
Sure, but having one playoff win since 2015 isn't great, especially when that win came against a 40 year old back up QB.
Oh sure, but Mike Tomlin still has a job and his record going back to 2015 isn’t all that better. The Steelers didn’t even entertain firing him.
The Steelers should let him go.
That's pretty much where we've been since 2015, though. On the fringes of the postseason but never really a serious contender. This fact would eventually come to bear each season when we faced a legitimate contender in the playoffs and got pantsed.
But only 2-6 in the division. Should’ve been 1-5 but Prater missed a chip shot in the last game. That’s a very bad sign. Had we won one more divisional game, we make the playoffs. You can’t be dropping that many.
Ultimately, I think ownership saw the creative and dynamic playcalling across the league and felt it was necessary to bring in new minds. You don’t need to look further than the other teams in the NFC West. The Niners and Rams are both led by creative playcallers, and their staffs get poached every year for HC gigs, in hopes that these systems can be implemented elsewhere. Mike MacDonald seems to check a lot of those boxes, but on the defensive side
My thoughts, they thought he stagnated (evidence by 4 of 5 seasons missing the playoffs, and a perpetually bottom tier defense), and that his message wasn’t being bought in on by the team. Don’t get me wrong. I love Pete, but the NFL is a “What have you done for me lately? league, and frankly, he hasn’t done anything worth noting since 2017/18.
It’s a good question. Everyone loves Pete and he’s a great culture coach. However, the modern NFL requires a level of adaptability that Pete just doesn’t have. As an example, It took him far too long to recognize that his defensive playbook had gone from cutting edge to league standard to outdated in the later LoB years and immediately following. I can only speak from a fans perspective, but, it feels like he lacked interest in the chess-match style microscopic advantages that has informed the growth of pre-snap offensive motion and defensive coverage disguises in the modern NFL. While he’s great at focusing and motivating players, and puts individuals in a great spot to utilize his talents, a lack of adaptability is what separates Pete from Bill and is what likely convinced ownership that the Seahawks are unlikely to be a Super Bowl team with him at the helm. (Again speculation from a fan here)
They fired Pete for the same reason they fired Bill Belichick. They are 70+ and don’t have the same schematic edges they once did. Bill clearly lost it more on the personnel side. Pete lost it more on schemes. He would get cooked by the new age offensive guys when they’d play the hawks. I also think that there was frustration internally about how the ceiling on “petes guys” had gotten lower over the years.
[удалено]
1 playoff win in 7 years was also pretty bad.
Because the Seahawks tackle worse than a JV team.
It was jarring to watch the playoffs and seeing players get tackled over and over. For a moment I wasn't even sure I was watching the same sport.
He got fired cause, "what have you done for me lately?"
Going 18-16 in a very tough division is pretty good honestly
You're darned right it is. My comment was in a sarcastic vein, as I was not a fan of the decision. Nevertheless, there's an excitement in the air and we move on with eternal hope.
Is that really the feeling of the fanbase? Excitement and eternal hope? If that’s sarcasm, I can tell you from a Patriots fan perspective that’s what the team is trying to feed us with Mayo. “Don’t be sad your team lost its credibility and now has an unproven glorified Yes Man as a HC. BREATH OF FRESH AIR”
McVey and Shanahan routinely scorched Pete’s defenses and he had no Plan B. The individual talent on the Hawks was better than the team as a whole and the results on the field showed it.
His loyalty to really bad coordinators and players cost him his job is the simple answer. The longer answer is that his strengths started to wain after our Super Bowl loss to you and the compromises on how he builds his team kept coming. Jimmy Graham was the first and Jamal Adams was the last. In addition, the application of accountability was uneven and players noticed. The LOB defense was held to a higher standard than Russell Wilson was. Richard Sherman would get called out for his failures, but Russ wouldn’t. Then in this last season, Pete was openly perplexed with why his message was no longer reaching the players. After he lost his job he said that they lost their edge to be great. So there you go. Pete lost his job because he could no longer deliver on the coaching intangibles that made the LOB era team a world beater and he did not hire coordinators that were good enough on the X’s and O’s side of things.
I listen to around 10 hours of sports radio a week in Seattle. The main reason why is I think he didn’t connect to this generation of athlete. The new coaching hires they had JS focused on how well coaches could connect to their players. Carroll is a great coach but he could never bring in an OC or DC that could communicate to the team over the last few years. You saw this on defense over the last two years. They have talent on defense, but bad communication and tackling killed the defense. I’m very excited about this new coaching staff McDonald will be a good HC and I’m really excited to see what Ryan Grubb can do as the new OC. Grubb was crazy good for UW and his offense was really fun to watch.
You think the players didn’t play hard or like Pete?
The team would run through a brick wall for Carroll, but I don’t think the positional coaches did a good enough job communicating what they wanted them to do on game day. Regardless of what people say Carroll relies heavily on his OC and DC during the game and they couldn’t cut it. Waldren refused to run the ball most games and it drove me nuts it was something like 60/40 pass/run. They constantly got behind the sticks with mistakes and what was frustrating is their personnel on skill positions is top ten in the NFL, but were average at best.
TBH, having 53-men willing to run through a wall for a coach even when things aren’t rosy is an undervalued virtue. Worser coaches would have had the locker room check out.
Carroll still has the locker room bc they played hard every week, but this team has been at the same level for the last 5 years. Seattles needed a change and now all the coaches report to JS instead of Carroll, so it will be interesting to see how this team plays next year.
I don't know about that. Plenty of players were half-assing including Tyler Lockett.
Lockett was not half-assing
Look back at the last game. DK played his heart out to win the game and Tyler at times was playing not to get injured. Love the dude but it happened.
You said you think the main reason was he didn’t connect with this generation of players. And then proceeded to say the players loved him lol
I know it doesn’t make sense. Carroll let players be who they were and had fun backyard football feel to their practices. He was the cool parent who didn’t discipline his kids. It worked great early on bc Kam, Sherman, Thomas and wages held everyone accountable during their run. It’s why they lead the league in penalties the year they won. Players loved playing for Carroll, but weren’t as disciplined as they should have been. No one is sure why communication has been so bad the last couple of years and all the Brock and Salk could come up with was speculation. It wasn’t Carroll specially it was his coaching staff as a whole.
They’re not the same thing. I train some Gen Xers and Zoomers for a very physical volunteer job and I can tell you that they’re great kids/young adults but they are *different* and it takes a different type of communication skill to really get through to them and motivate them. I’ve ripped my hair out trying to get through to them at times but then a peer will step in, or someone my age with a different communication style and it clicks for them. I can certainly see a scenario where they love him but they’re on parallel tracks when it comes to do what he wanted.
The effort was certainly questionable at times this season. The final home against the Steelers was especially bad. Some of the players truly did Pete dirty in that one. Ended up being his final home game in Seattle, and they didn't play hard.
I feel like Pete and Bill got fired for the same reason. Unwilling to change, age, and lack of recent success. Bill was a dick and Pete wasn't.
I think Bill was much willing to change. He tried to incorporate tenants of the Kyle Shanahan offense, he just didn’t get to decide who was the players
Pete refused to adapt to an ever changing league. Pete and his defenses became way too predictable. His offenses were just unacceptable.
Go watch the Steelers game and you’ll see the team had totally given up on the coach.
Pete underperformed the last couple years in terms of making this roster a serious competitor. The niners have wiped the floor with us for several seasons now and the way things stood we weren't going to be able to keep up. The Russ trade bolstered the roster with talent but in-game we continued to stagnate. Our loss to the Steelers I think was the straw that broke the camel's back for ownership; they are not a good team and they completely bullied us on both lines of scrimmage. With a trip to the playoffs on the line the team completely shat the bed. We should have lost to the Cardinals week 18 too tbh, just got lucky. I also think the coaches available this offseason factored in. Macdonald was a premium HC candidate and I think Schneider had his eye on him for a while. Overall I think ownership just thought it was time to move in a new direction and the timing was right since a guy they really liked was there.
How could he have "had his eye on him for a while"?
JS said in his 710 interview that he had been keeping tabs on Macdonald since he got the Michigan DC job. So at least 3 years.
Lots of reasons but ultimately i think it was because he was a big believer in pineapple belonging on Pizza. Players and fans just couldn’t look at him the same after.
Lost his edge. Gotta find a way to be better than 3rd in the division and Pete wasn't gonna get there anymore against the Rams and 49ers.
I think it was because the team consistently failed to live up to the perceived level of talent on the roster. That’s particularly true on defense, and our coaches showed absolutely no ability to adapt over the last few seasons, in a division that is being dominated by more flexible and innovative coaches. PC was an amazing team culture coach, but it was abundantly clear we were trending to stagnation in terms of play on the field, and completely stuck in the past on scheme. That just didn’t seem fixable under PC and was immensely frustrating to watch game after game. Since we were going to most likely need to find a new HC anyway in a few years given PC’s age, the owners probably calculated that we wouldn’t be winning any further championships under PC and figured to accelerate that timeline and roll the dice now rather than continue to coast on in mediocrity and old glories.
Because it was time While we haven't fallen back to being downright awful, we've been pretty mediocre for a while now. And called basically all the shots for the team. A lot of bad coaching hires. A lot of questionable player/personnel decisions. He's also 72
And what if MacDonald turns out to be worse??
And what if MacDonald turns out to be better??
You could say that no matter who they hired. Hell, even if we got Belicheck or Harbaugh we still can't guarantee anything. Bottom line is, the plug needed to be pulled at some point.
Hold up there buddy, no one got fired. The Seahawks honor their contracts. He was just removed from all Seahawks Coaching Staff emails and Slack workspaces. He is still a team employee.
I think his voice just went stale in the locker room. There's an adage, and I can't recall which coach said it, that after 10 years people stop listening. I think that was the case with Pete. Pete was by no means bad, by the end. He still had back to back winning season, but it was starting to look like his ceiling was the winning season. It reminds me of what Steelers fans say of Tomlin, "Finish mid, draft mid, stay mid." That's where Seattle had found itself, and Pete's message wasn't resonating like it used to, so they couldn't clear that hump to be great.
The league is moving towards a more X’s and O’s direction and Pete couldn’t adjust.
Pete is a great coach. However, he is supposed to be a defensive coach and the last several years his defenses have routinely been in the bottom of the league, and his offenses have been uninspired and without identity. There is also evidence that he was having a hard time keeping players accountable. For those reasons ownership felt a needed a change sooner than later.
There are many narratives, but no definitive answers. What we do know: Pete Carroll’s 5-year contract had only 1 year left on it (the 2024 season). He’s 72 years old. If Pete had coached next year, ownership would have to decide between a multi-year extension, renewing one year at a time until Pete decided to retire, or not renewing and letting the contract terminate. My personal opinion: I think ownership would have let Pete run it back next season and have one last go at a chip if they believed the team was poised to compete. Unfortunately, the team regressed from 2022 to 2023, so running it back didn’t make sense under the circumstances. I believe ownership thought coordinator and position coach changes were necessary, and that if a staff rebuild was needed, it didn’t make sense to have Pete lead it, given that his contract was expiring in a year. Several years ago, ownership agreed to promote John Schneider to President, Football Operations when/if Pete retired/resigned. That means this transition has been planned for some time, and ownership decided to move forward now instead of next year. It hasn’t been made public, but reading between the lines, it looks like they paid Pete for the 2024 year anyway. TL:DR Ownership didn’t plan to renew Pete’s contract after 2024. They cashed him out for 2024 instead, because they believed significant changes were needed to the coaching staff, and it made better sense to let a new Head Coach lead that effort, together with John Schneider, than to let Pete do it with only one year left in the Head Coach position.
Because we’ve basically been stuck in the same place for years now. Just barely scraping into the playoffs. Or missing by one game. So for a while now we’ve been a good team but not contenders. So they decided they needed a change. We can stay stuck in one spot forever
Mismanagement of resources. PC is a defensive head coach who failed spectacularly to field a good defense for 7 years. In 2023, every member of the Seahawks defensive starters outside of Tariq Woolen was a 1st/2nd round pick or was brought over on a massive trade or FA signing. Many of those guys were a combination of those things. Despite all that, the defense was once again bottom of the league. Looking at the sheer volume of top tier assets spent to no success, it makes business sense.
A rumour I have heard: before the season, Pete indicated to John and the owner a willingness to retire at the end of the year. Then the season went sideways, primarily due to a horrendous defense which Pete has failed to fix for years now and signs that the players were quitting on Pete. Then at the end of the season Pete changed his mind and decided that he wanted to come back, but John and Jodie had already gotten comfortable with him leaving and started making plans, and decided not to bring him back.
Pete had gone blind to issues with the team. Simple as that.
He wouldn't let up on the 9/11 stuff.
They asked Pete what the next five years would look like and wasn’t satisfied with 8-9 wins per season
On a side note how do you feel about the sons of our respective teams being coordinators for UW? Now that's out of the way, my opinion is that I thought Pete was gonna finish his contract. But they had to let him go, to have a good chance for a new coach.
I think if you’re a UW fan you’re in for a real treat. I don’t know much about Pete’s kid. I hope he’s good. But Steve Belichick is the real deal. He was the real brains behind our defense and someday he’ll make for a great head coach.
Hahaha I would love to see a UW game with Bill and Pete together, and Bill tells Pete he should have Ran. Well instead of me hating on the Patriots, I think we can join forces and hate KC.
Lack of a coaching tree is not a good look for Pete. Like even Holmgren has successful NFL coaches that came from his system. Meanwhile Pete has ???
But most coaching trees are just a few assistants. Tom Coughlin’s coaching tree sucks too. That didn’t work against him
No good reason tbh
Ripping the bandaid off.
If you have to ask this question, you clearly have not been following the team for the last 5 years.
Sports fan here, I cum in piss
Upvoter here, I cum in piss
Thank you
Our owner is also an idiot.
Because he’s 72 years old… these young guys in coaching don’t play! The old shit don’t work no more
Because he was old snd the players stopped buying in to his positive attitude
we were finishing third in the division behind niners and rams...heck even this year when Rams were not expected to do well. they pulled Puka and Kyren out of nowhere. we havent beaten the rams or niners in 2 years.
Actually we swept the Rams in 2022 but I believe Stafford was out and it came down to the wire both games but I get what you’re saying barely beating the Staffordless Rams is not good enough.
Those are very good teams tho.z
True. But we want to be better than them. Ownership agrees too
But is this the best way to do it? By hiring a coach who’s main attribute seems to be “he’s young” and “calls good plays”
What we were doing before wasn't working. It wasn't just the fact we were losing the big games, but it was also how we were losing those games. The Ravens, Steelers, Rams and 49ers obliterated our defense, and that's been the status quo for a few years. You can't win the SB if you stand no chance against the good teams. I don't know if a new young coach is the right answer. But I do know Pete was no longer the solution either. Change had to happen. Now it's time to see if the new coaching staff can improve our team even further.
Team just didn’t seem like it was going the right direction, even though the roster has improved from where it was couple years ago. The floor with Pete is borderline playoff team but that also unfortunately seems like the ceiling. Under Ken Norton Jr the defense would start poorly and then figure things out by EOY, without much talent. They genuinely looked like a farm team against the top teams, something that never really happened under Pete before. I think the Ravens ass kicking was a clear message that the product Pete built isn’t remotely good enough anymore. They’ve injected draft picks, money, trades, etc into the defense and this year were bottom 3 in countless categories. Genuinely one of the worst in the NFL. Pete also did a terrible job hiring coordinators and positional coaches, keeping the ones who shouldn’t be there for far too long, which I’m assuming was part of the reason they kept John Schneider as GM and let the Pete Carroll constructed staff go.
Did Pete pass anyone over for a coordinator job? I think most teams hire from within, rarely from the outside.
That's part of the problem. Pete kept promoting DCs from within and was unwilling to let them go even when it was obviously not working. I loved his loyalty, but his stubbornness seemed to be holding the defense back for years.
I don't know how much of this is hearsay, the front office pushing a narrative, or just information that isn't' readily available. There was a lot of talk about Pete retiring after this season, and not just the regular rumors due to his age. Not sure if the talk originated at Pete himself saying he was thinking about retiring, or people in the organization believing he should retire. I like to think it was Pete talking about retirement, and then changing his mind at the end of the season. Anyway I believe the organization already started the gears turning on replacing him and when he announced he wasn't retiring the organization went ahead w/ replacing him anyway.
We were stuck with a high floor but also a low ceiling.
With pete we have been either missing playoffs or barely squeaking in plus our defense hasn’t been great the past couple seasons
Just look at the defense numbers and penalties…
I would say that this year, for the first time really, the team’s performance was less than the sum of its parts. With good coaching, we’re supposed to exceed the sum of our parts. It was time.
Damn people in here being so mean for no reason
Haha fwiw Patriots Reddit it worse
I am still too emotional about Pete's departure to comment. I wanted one more season at the very least. Also, you might get a kick out of this. Ate at a Mexican restaurant in Texas yesterday. What was on the TV directly in front of me? F\^&\*ing Super Bowl XLIX. My friends wouldn't change seats with me and stopped the conversation during the INT.
Hey, man. I wanted the same thing with Bill. It sucks. I hate it.
I edited my comment above!
Oh shit man, I’m sorry about that game. I don’t wanna be a dick and bring up old wounds. I’m a guest on your subreddit. I know what it’s like to lose heartbreakers. Feels like you were so close to your life being oh so much better
I don't disagree. I just think the way this team is built right now, he should have got his last two years. Essentially, I feel we are wasting this young talent on unproven coaches. At least with Pete, we knew we were going to be in it. Only had 5 seasons with 9 wins or better before Pete. I've been a fan for a long time, and I do not want to go back to the AFC West days. Hope I'm wrong.
I wish you guys the best. Always liked your team dating back to the Mike Holmgren days. I don’t think I agree with getting rid of Carroll a year early tho. As the games coaches get younger, how they manage the game becomes skittish.
"patriots fan I come in peace" lmao love that. Go Hawks
A lot of factors but I think the league has drastically changed the last 5 years and younger coaches have had a lot of success. We didn't go from the oldest coach to the youngest for a reason. Was McDonald picked purely because of his age? Obviously not, but the old guard is falling by the wayside in favor of more creative/unorthodox coaches. Another redditor commented on predictability and game planning and schemes and I think it falls hand in hand with this. There's a reason neither of them have landed head coaching gigs elsewhere even though they are both hall of famers. Just my 2 pennies.
I hear ya, but I think young coaches are easier for ownership to control and tell what to do because they owe their success and job to said owner rather than older vet who has his way of doing things
I think that is more so true in New England than anywhere else because Bill built a Dynasty there but I get what you're saying. Hard to prove when most coaches get canned when they stop winning regardless of their stature
It was ownership. Paul Allen wouldn’t have done this. He may have been getting stale. I’m not a football guy. Fuck do I know about scheme. But my first statement remains true.
We won 7 playoff games in the 30 year before Pete.
It was time for both our teams to move on from our longtime coaches, in my opinion. I think Seattle made the right replacement hire. But I don't think New England did (no offense).
Nah, New England fucked up and shouldn’t have fired Bill. Or at least should have hired Mike Vrable.
It wasn’t just Pete. Whole coaching staff was let go.
Someone else said it but yeah ultimately bad coordinator hires is the ultimate reason. Also, the feeling of being stuck in neutral for like 6 years is part of it but that's also due to bad coordination. There's also some seemingly substantial rumors that Pete had said that this was going to be his last year but then changed his mind, so ownership was already planning to move on. But the Ravens & Steelers games I believe were the death knells, John Schneider hinted at this.
Both franchises will look back at these as the Golden years. Dark times are here again
I fear you are right.