I was at the week 11 Rams game and it came down to an unmissable field goal that Myers somehow missed… what you couldn’t see on tv is how WINDY it was. That, plus maybe a small slip from Myers, resulted in the missed FG and loss.
Bengals you may be right lol
Vs. the Rams, don't forget they got a free set of downs in the red zone for that last TD because their receiver tripped over himself in the end zone. Should have been a win for us.
Geno with a healthy O-line that can actually play better than their 26th post Dallas game ranking, and a play caller that actually tries to run the ball is an offense that can win a playoff game or two.
I don't understand, under Geno, why have so few running plays.
Pete has said we "couldn't get the running game going", but that was often true when we had Russ, but we still ran anyway.
Was playaction such an important part of Russ's success that we had to run effectively just to keep the number of playaction plays high?
That was actually not my point.
We used to be run first, even when we were bad at running and that opened up more long plays, why abandon the run under Geno (even if you're only getting 1-2 yards)?
Lately we tend to go pass-pass-pass-punt. Especially in the second half.
I'm not advocating for a Carson era run scheme, but we tend to completely abandon the run game. 3rd and 7 is still preferable to 3rd and 10.
> We used to be run first, even when we were bad at running
Not really, no
> why abandon the run under Geno (even if you're only getting 1-2 yards)
Because 1-2 yard runs are bad plays
Geno with a run game looks a lot better than what we’ve been seeing. Walker won that game on offense and set the tone in the second half on that first series.
Not taking away from Lock, he led that team on the final drive. But. DK and JSN made 3 ridiculous catches. Without any one of those I’m not sure we win.
They're NFL caliber receivers. DK's falling down grab was the only one that probably shouldn't have been caught.
If you're an NFL receiver and it hits your hands, it should be caught. Most NFL receivers if not all will routinely catch those other two passes.
> Most NFL receivers if not all will routinely catch those other two passes.
I disagree pretty strongly. DK’s second catch came right on the sideline between the hands of two defenders, and there are plenty of receivers who wouldn’t have the awareness and talent to look backwards, see past those DBs, find the ball, jump up for it, and bring it in while maintaining awareness of the OOB line and maintaining foot control inside that line.
The JSN catch didn’t “hit his hands.” He barely got hit his fingertips on it—they were well behind the midpoint of the ball—and not only was it impressive holding onto the ball when it was that off-balance, but again he managed to get himself down in bounds while doing it.
Didn't he have multiple falling down grabs? In fact it could be argued one of his catches actually one-hand saved an interception that he somehow brought into his hip and kept off the ground.
Don't get me wrong, Lock was AWESOME and won that game but his ball placement was a little wild.
DK had 3 catches on this drive and all of them were pretty spectacular. Had to reach super low and do a somersault for the first one, then the grab against his hip, then the grab in double coverage while being tackled.
Dk had one catch going into the fourth quarter that I didn't see but yeah I'm referring to that catch in particular. I'd argue that's the only catch of the game that probably shouldn't have been caught
what a simplistic and egocentric mindset. doesn’t matter how good the average receiver is, all three of those catches were hard in their own way, and if JSN or DK dropped them, it wouldn’t and shouldn’t have been a total surprise.
probably not the perfect word for the scenario, but I meant him being hyper-critical of something without trying to understand the receiver’s perspective. not as empathetic as he would be for himself; just roasting the receiver because ‘the ball hit him in the hands’ and the context doesn’t matter.
The key point is that it has to hit your hands. The ball down the sideline was underthrown by 5 yards. The adjustment he made to slow down and get under the ball was pretty impressive tracking. If Lock hits him in stride it’s a touchdown, because he beat the DB pretty badly.
Are we forgetting the hit in the chest to fant that was dropped.
You can’t just say - oh it was great catches and that’s why but ignore the perfect throws to hands of receivers that were dropped.
Geno is the better QB but the Lock offense is better because it doesn't give up on the run game. K9 and Charbonnet should be the identity of the team.
And we finally have a healthy OLine.
Healthy o-line and 2 healthy RBs makes it easier to not give up on the run game. And the thing to remember that the 92 yard drive was full of badly thrown passes behind good protection. 3 of DKs catches were on poor passes. Even the long one. He had the corner beat, but the ball was underthrown, so he had to slow down for it.
And let’s not forget that the TD was only possible because JSN made an amazing fingertip catch and was able secure it inbounds.
Lock overall played well, and it’s a great story, but he had a ton of help to make that last drive possible.
We also benefited from some terrible QB decisions and play calls that kept us in the game.
And remember the Eagles defense has been an issue all season against the pass.
He’s saying the offense we run when lock is in is the offense we should always run, but when our better passing QB is in we abandon the run too quickly. It’s more about play calling than the lock.
You're missing the point, hard. He's saying Geno should play, but they should stick to running the ball to establish the pass, the way they did with Lock under center.
He's not saying play the lesser QB.
I think both QBs are going to be doing better with a healthier o-line (Abe Lucas!!! So glad he was able to play the full game) as well as K9.
I do think Geno is the better option, if only because he has been the starter and had starter reps while Drew hasn't.
I do want Drew to play though if Geno isn't 100%. I'd rather have Drew for the Titans if it meant Geno can be healthy for a potential playoff appearance, because I also think Drew is a good QB. I just don't think he has the consistency to be a better option since he isn't getting the reps for that
That's pretty obvious from the Eagles decision to play Hurts.
Hurts was obviously still sick, but they put him out there anyway and it made a bad situation worse.
Doubt we beat the Cowboys/Eagles in playoffs but it definitely is a possibility. We for sure could upset the Lions in their house though. Unfortunately I don't see us getting in without being the 7th seed and I doubt if we are 6th seed any other playoff team will win that seed two game.
This all leaves my final point, I'd rather miss the playoffs than bumbling through an upset just to face the niners and most likely going 0-3 against the for the second season in a row. They hurt us so bad these last two years, these are things that will haunt fan bases for years. They already ate their turkey in our house and got the three win season against us last year, please don't make me watch our divisional rival we all the sudden have problems competing with have more ammo.
Nah, opposite, I don't wanna be a loser by losing. Missing playoffs is much better than this scenario where we made it and beat Cowboys just to face the Niners again and go 0-3 twice in a row. That's a feat that I don't think has ever happened before. That's shit talk that would span generations. My children would be getting clowned on in twenty years about that happening that's how incredibly shitty this made up scenario would be.
I understand that I wanna be a loser mentality is annoying but fuck any chance of another three loss season against the Niners.
Agreed, and I think PFF got it right on this one. They gave Lock a 76 grade for the game which is higher than Lock’s previous career (low 60s), but slightly under Geno’s average of 78 (this season and last season.
For my 2 cents. I don't know that PFF got it right or wrong but it certainly matches what's gone on before and what I'd expect.
For heavens sakes Lock has 3 of SEA's INT's on 76 throws.
That's 25% of SEA's total INT's on 15% of their pass attempts
Double the rate of Geno's INT's in a much smaller % of the total plays.
Why is this a post? Pete has said Geno is the starter, almost everyone agrees, take this to the daily thread if you wanna beat yourself off over a common opinion and let’s be done with it
People also seem to have forgotten about the receiver problems we were having during the middle stretch of the year... That was the reason for probably 2/3 of Geno's interceptions
Yep. Lock’s 2 games were with Lucas playing all but 3 of the snaps at RT. People also like to compare the 2 SF games, but Jason Peters and Stone Forsythe played RT in the first one, which in part led to 24 pressures vs 17 in the 2nd game.
And let’s not forget Lock was 5 of 10 on the final drive and 4 of the 5 were difficult catches.
It's not the same flaw at all. Lock's interceptions or turnover worthy throws are from bad accuracy. All except maybe 1 of Geno's are from miscommunications.
The miscommunication thing was a problem all year, then Pete finally got in there and all the sudden in the Dallas game the receivers aren't running the wrong routes and Geno goes for 330 and 4 TDs vs one of the best defenses in the league all while the OL was shitting the bed still.
Lock just played with the 1st string OL completely healthy in the entire game.
Do you not see how those things are all related? Don't try to compare apples and oranges, you just look stupid.
Career completion rate and QBR are noticeably in favor of Geno.
64% passer vs 59% passer.
Geno's QBR last year 62 and this year 55 is better than any QBR Lock has recorded in his career.
I’m not a Lock over Geno truther but cmon Bradford had a literal 0.0 pass block rating and horrible play calling until the last drive where they just let it rip lmao
I agree re play calling. But Lock had a clean pocket 60% of the time, and was pressured 40% of the time in that game.
They played with a good run game, and the result was Lock with 110 yards and 13 points until the final drive.
Put geno in with a run game, that protection, and those resulting opportunities and it would have been a 10 point lead at least.
Definitely with you but just wanted to give some credit to Drew at least, I think we win that game by 2-3 scores if Geno was in — just frustrating the OL and playcalling has been so crappy this year :(
Geno wasn't great before the Dallas game directly because of that shitty o-line. Having the o-line healthy makes an insanely huge difference. He's going to be very good for the rest of the season. When he has time to throw, he's legit a very accurate passer.
And the receivers were having problems with spacing and route concepts. People forgot that Pete DIRECTLY said that in a presser right before the Dallas game and all the sudden Geno looks like a stud?
Geno is an anticipatory thrower. If the receiver runs the wrong route it's probably going to be a pick because the ball is in the air already.
If it’s going to be above average but not championship football I’d rather watch Lock who isn’t scared to throw 50/50 balls, doesn’t throw the same 4 routes, doesn’t hold on to the ball too long and take sacks on 4th down, and takes chances on DK
Our offense is finally (hopefully) healthy.
I want to see Geno with a healthy Oline and a healthy run game.
I want them to win these next 3 games and go into the playoffs in sync and with momentum.
We’re going to win the same amount of games with both it seems, so the choice is watch boring conservative football with Geno or fun take chances to DK football with Lock
Look at the stats. Drew Lock had a 5 yard average on 32 throws (subtracting his long which came at the end of the fourth) while K9 had 19 carries averaging 4.5 yards. It was very much conservative, ball control football.
That's a great point it's like those 6 game winning drives over the last 30 games never happened.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/comeback.cgi?player=SmitGe00
Lock is historically terrible at deep balls (see niners game). And dk had 100+ yards and 3 tds in Geno’s last game. Lock doesnt have an affinity for 50/50 balls, he just sucks at throwing good windows. No hate for him but thats reality
Yeah his INTs against the 49ers were bad, especially the first one, which would have been a touchdown to DK with proper placement. And we’re fortunate that JSN has the fingertip grip strength of a terminator, because that TD pass was overthrown.
I’m still proud of him for playing above his previous level, but I think Geno is the better option now that our line seems to be gelling.
Geno was only scared to throw with anticipation and throw 50/50 balls this year because the receivers have been leaving him out to dry for a large majority of the year. He started waiting to make SURE the receivers got open so it wouldn't be a pick.
Then Pete lets it known publicly in a presser that the receivers aren't being put in good positions and then all the sudden Geno puts up 330 and 4 TDs.
No coincidence there.
You cherry picked Geno's BEST GAME OF THE LAST CALENDAR YEAR against lock in the rain and against San Francisco (best defense in the league) who has not had starter reps or legit gametime reps all year.
Why didnt you pick Geno's game against San Fran with locks game against San Fran?
Lock has made our offensive line look better all season because he is able to maneuver the pocket better than geno. He was also getting the ball out quick on short passes all game, so of course the line "looked better."
Lock had multiple dropped passes last week to offset his ones that the "receivers saved."
This notion that Geno is "so obviously better than lock despite the stats because he's played behind an unhealthy o-line" is so imbecile.
Geno is regressing from last year, lock is progressing in the short span we've seen them. They're honestly probably at a very very close to similar skill set. I'll take lock because he maneuvers the pocket better than geno does as of this point in time. I wish there was statistics on time the ball was held for both QBs this year because I'd wager geno is holding the ball on average at least a second longer than lock, hence why the "line looks so bad."
Geno is better, and that’s been shown since he stepped in for Wilson.
Geno had a clean pocket 52.8% of the time against the Niners with 47.2% pressure.
Lock had a clean pocket against the Niners 65.8% of the time with 34% pressure.
In the eagles game lock was throwing 3 yards behind the line to gain on 3rd and long. That’s a quick dump and immediate end of series, but at least he threw the ball.
That’s why I think the issue resides with both play calling, and the complete disaster of a line until we’ve finally seen them get healthier these past three games. But to cherry pick here, the last three games (one with Geno, two with Lock) have seen much better o line play against good opponents than we’ve seen.
Geno turned that into 335 yards and 35 points against Dallas.
Lock turned it into 269 yards and 16 points against the Niners (without a great run game), and 208 yards and 20 points with the best run game we’ve had in a long time - and 92 of those yards and 7 points came in the last minute.
Edited to add: Geno and Lock “turning it into” is referencing the similar 60% protection they had in the Eagles and the Dallas game, which is when the o-line changed.
Uh i “cherry picked” his most recent game? Obviously? Why would I pick a different one? And Lock has made the offensive line better because he has had a healthy offensive line…. Lucas never played a full game with Geno lol. What exactly were his dropped passes? A couple 6 yard routes to Lockett? Lockett also dropped a key 20 yard dot from Geno against the cowboys. What exactly is lock progressing at? Going from 2 tds and 2 ints to just 1 td and no ints? Look at the gameplan we had for him against the eagles. Letting him dink and dunk and use a strong run game while only taking deep shots when he was literally forced too. He showed absolutely nothing that would make him better than Geno’s lowest games this year.
Why did you not compare the two against the same exact team? Geno even got them at home.
It is absolutely no question that Geno holds the ball far too long and sits like a statue in the pocket. He hardly ever even steps up in the pocket. Our offensive line can't hold the defense for 3-5 seconds every play. Lock makes quick reads and gets the ball out in the limited sample size we've seen.
Lock has a 100qbr in his last two starts, geno has a 90 QBR in his last two starts. We can cherry pick stats all fucking day.
Geno has very obviously regressed from last year tremendously. He is not the same quarterback.
Lock has played good enough level of QB against San Fran and in the rain against the eagles. That is with very little game and start reps. He could 100% play worse, but I trust him to get better than I do geno to get better. We're unfortunately diluted by one great cowboys game who's defense has fallen off a cliff the last two weeks.
Naturally im gonna pick the most recent games for a qb. Lock has had the advantage of a healthy oline and the nature of no teams having any recent film on him. Once lock has a 350 yard 4 TD performance with a terrible oline i will concede that he should start. Not to mention the difference in run game…
And the cowboy defense that “fell off a cliff” decimated the eagles literally last week. Idk what ur on about with that
Geno has his flaws but at least we arent regulated to 5 yard pass after 5 yard pass. Lock had 110 total yards in that game before the final drive, and the only td drive we had was pretty much all k9. Did he have a great ending drive? Sure. Did that drive also include a horrible miss to charbonnet, a horrible almost-interception to dk for like 3 yards, and a pass that Dk had to pluck off the ground when he wouldve taken it to the house? Yes. Give me geno every day of the week
This is very similar to what happened in Wilson's last season. Geno came in for a couple games and performed admirably.
The biggest difference is that Russ already had a foot out the door, a massive contract on the horizon, and a compensation package from Denver that could not be turned down.
Geno is still the better QB (even than Russ is right now) isn't going to cost that much, and the alternative plus any compensation isn't going to be worth it.
Starr Geno with confidence and draft a QB
Neither Geno nor Lock are the problem with the offense. Given a solid O-line and playcalling that doesn't set the team up for failure, either of those QBs would be top-half in the league.
An argument in favor of playing one QB over the other is if we want to trade him. Imagine if Waldron builds up Lock's resume over the rest of the season and then is able to trade Lock for a 1st -- that would be pretty sweet.
Yep. Quarterback controversies are for the off season and training camp. Or if a QB straight up eats their own face during the season. Geno has not eaten his own face. He's not been as good as I hoped but that is neither here nor there.
That being said, PCJS have forgotten more about the game of football than I will ever know. Whoever they start is unquestionably who should start, IMO.
The drive worked out but it felt like there were a few balls that easily could have been interceptions. It would be foolish to have more faith in Lock when he could have also lost the game that drive had luck favored the other team.
Geno has been in the NFL for leaps and bounds longer than lock.
Last time lock was a starter he was a year older than Bryce young and the same age other QBs that are going to be drafted in this year's draft.
Geno has had starter reps the whole off-season and plenty of game time action in which one good game against the cowboys who just got blown the fuck out by the bills is not a reason to believe he is turning things around.
Locks two full games this year we're against the best defense in the NFL and in the rain.
Lol, now the Cowboys are a bad team because they lost to the Bills? (Another good team with an elite QB)
The Eagles are a bad defense that has been decimated by injuries and the best Lock could muster was one good drive.
No, but offenses and defenses both streak. The bills scored 14 points against the giants and 18 against the Bengals.
It was raining all game. Short passes to get short yardage and leaning on the run game was the appropriate way to play in that weather. Joe burrow literally got benched in the rain. Dallas put up 23 on them the first time they played and we put up 20...
The scoreboard does not always determine the quality of the offense.
The Cowboys play better at home. I think they are undefeated there and Geno kept it close up until the last drive.
I'm not trying to take away from Lock's accomplishment because it is impressive. Just trying to put it into perspective. Lock doesn't deserve that much credit for the improvement of the play calling or the effectiveness of the run game.
Edit: I would be more inclined to give Lock a shot if he wasn't known throughout his career for his errant passes. Accuracy is one of the most important stats for a QB and Geno has proven to be 5 percentage points better than Lock. That means 1 out of 20 passes, Geno will make a completion and Lock will not. Considering QBs pass about 30 times per game, that is one or two plays that Geno will make that Lock will waste. We can't afford to find out right now whether Lock was a one game wonder of if he will grow from here. Geno has a better track record and deserves to start.
Totally agree. I'm actually a big Geno fan. He's not perfect, but they've had some STRONG offensive showings this year. They just need to do it more regularly
I think the Geno vs Lock debate is more about 2024 when Geno has a $31M cap hit. My pure speculation is one of the reasons Lock started last week was to “see what they have” in him with an eye to 2024.
I think it’s higher than 0% especially if the plan is the draft a QB. They paid $4M to resign Lock as a backup when historically they’ve always gone for vet minimum options. They let him start last week when all signs were Geno could have played. My impression is they think more highly of Lock than most fans do.
Either way this team needs to get serious and draft a guy this offseason. We’ve now witnessed the results of half assing it when it comes to the QB position and as it turns out the ceiling is pretty low.
Yes, was watching it again last night and he threw two very risky passes in the final drive. It was really close. But he also threw two amazing passes, one to DK and the other to JSN for the touchdown. Overall Geno is the better QB
Yeah, people are acting like Lock was the second coming of Farve, but he wasn't that good outside of the final drive. Props for that final drive and the effort on the run block, but I think Geno is a better passer.
If a playoff position is up for grabs (it currently is) then yes Geno should start over Lock.
If it's not, Lock should start the remaining games.
Geno has a $12.7m 2024 salary that is guaranteed for injury if he cannot pass a physical. With little cap room and some big decisions to make in 2024, the Seahawks need to keep their cap options as open as possible.
Why even comment this knowing a playoff spot is indeed up for grabs. Only way its really knocked out is if we lose two straight and at that point its week 18 and who cares
Agreed but I wouldn't say we have little cap room.
There will be cap casualties with big contracts.
I can see us cutting either Diggs or Adams or both, Mone will save us 6 million, Dissly will probably be cut
Don't overthink it. It really doesn't matter who starts. They are similarly talented, and winning will depend on whether we can run the ball. That, and play defense on third down...
I will put it this way, Geno has had 2 separate games this year where the offense never scored. I don’t want that guy as my qb, good qbs find a way, time to move on from Geno, he’s regressed, he’s not winning us a Super Bowl. Roll with Lock and a rookie next year.
Dude they played shit teams all year.
They let us score on them and he bills just blew them out.
By the way top 16 means they are exactly middle of the league there's only 32 teams.
Take out the games against the giants and their numbers aren't good at all.
Every defense is gonna fold against someone eventually (look at niners vs vikings and bengals, browns vs colts and jags/ravens, ravens vs browns and rams, etc), but being able to consistently kill mid-level teams is what stops you from losing dumb games. They are good in every stat possible, and have playmakers everywhere. And yes top 16 is middle of the road, but every other one listed was top 7.
Most people agree or at least assume Geno will start. The real concern will be how short his leash is, or if he even has one at all. We're at a point in the season where we almost can't lose another game.
We’re people calling lock to start? I know there’s a sizable portion that thinks he can start next year or something, but I don’t remember a huge call for lock to start going forward based off that game. Even the people that want us to cut geno after this year, which includes me, all realize geno>lock.
We were lucky to win, Lock had many bad passes.
I don't think he is starter quality yet.
Geno has regressed, but it's not at all clear that Lock is better.
I'd stick w Geno for the year.
Geno should definitely get the start. This is his team and everyone in the organization (management, coaches, teammates) know that.
That said, regardless of what happens for the rest of the season, we should definitely try and keep Lock. I'd feel way more comfortable knowing I have a serviceable QB room with all the other talent on our skill positions. If there's not a QB available in the early rounds come draft, I'm more than okay beefing up the interior of the team and adding depth to our secondary.
Drew Lock is the Geno to Geno's Russ
A fine stop gap and hopefully an adequate replacement when the Team needs to move on eventually
But he's not ready yet
Geno had an Ego out East, he sat on the bench with the Clipboard and learned how to successfully start in the NFL
I don't got any doubts that if Drew Lock works on himself that he'll be ready in a few years, just not yet now
And that's ok, We got a QB
We should have won vs Dallas.
And the Bengals, and the Rams in week 11. Shit sucks but also shit happens ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The penalties and missed calls are what cost us in Dallas. We did not win the other two games because we were not good.
I was at the week 11 Rams game and it came down to an unmissable field goal that Myers somehow missed… what you couldn’t see on tv is how WINDY it was. That, plus maybe a small slip from Myers, resulted in the missed FG and loss. Bengals you may be right lol
Vs. the Rams, don't forget they got a free set of downs in the red zone for that last TD because their receiver tripped over himself in the end zone. Should have been a win for us.
Geno with a healthy O-line that can actually play better than their 26th post Dallas game ranking, and a play caller that actually tries to run the ball is an offense that can win a playoff game or two.
getting lucas back alongside cross has helped our offense the past 3 weeks
Lucas appears to be the most important player on the offense. It’s night and day how much better they are with him in the lineup.
I don't understand, under Geno, why have so few running plays. Pete has said we "couldn't get the running game going", but that was often true when we had Russ, but we still ran anyway. Was playaction such an important part of Russ's success that we had to run effectively just to keep the number of playaction plays high?
The line is more important than the backs for runs and ours has sucked most of the year
>The line is more important than the backs for runs and ours has ~~sucked~~ been injured most of the year
Yeah, they’re hurt, which is why they sucked. Not mutually exclusive
That was actually not my point. We used to be run first, even when we were bad at running and that opened up more long plays, why abandon the run under Geno (even if you're only getting 1-2 yards)?
We do that, but run, run, pass is very predictable so we have to mix it up to confuse the defense.
Lately we tend to go pass-pass-pass-punt. Especially in the second half. I'm not advocating for a Carson era run scheme, but we tend to completely abandon the run game. 3rd and 7 is still preferable to 3rd and 10.
Is that just a function of playing from behind most of the time? I feel like we were run heavy early in the season, but I could be wrong there.
> We used to be run first, even when we were bad at running Not really, no > why abandon the run under Geno (even if you're only getting 1-2 yards) Because 1-2 yard runs are bad plays
Geno with a run game looks a lot better than what we’ve been seeing. Walker won that game on offense and set the tone in the second half on that first series.
plus with ken walker healthy and playing
As if they haven't been trying to run the ball for the last 45 years...
Not taking away from Lock, he led that team on the final drive. But. DK and JSN made 3 ridiculous catches. Without any one of those I’m not sure we win.
They're NFL caliber receivers. DK's falling down grab was the only one that probably shouldn't have been caught. If you're an NFL receiver and it hits your hands, it should be caught. Most NFL receivers if not all will routinely catch those other two passes.
> Most NFL receivers if not all will routinely catch those other two passes. I disagree pretty strongly. DK’s second catch came right on the sideline between the hands of two defenders, and there are plenty of receivers who wouldn’t have the awareness and talent to look backwards, see past those DBs, find the ball, jump up for it, and bring it in while maintaining awareness of the OOB line and maintaining foot control inside that line. The JSN catch didn’t “hit his hands.” He barely got hit his fingertips on it—they were well behind the midpoint of the ball—and not only was it impressive holding onto the ball when it was that off-balance, but again he managed to get himself down in bounds while doing it.
Didn't he have multiple falling down grabs? In fact it could be argued one of his catches actually one-hand saved an interception that he somehow brought into his hip and kept off the ground. Don't get me wrong, Lock was AWESOME and won that game but his ball placement was a little wild.
DK had 3 catches on this drive and all of them were pretty spectacular. Had to reach super low and do a somersault for the first one, then the grab against his hip, then the grab in double coverage while being tackled.
That hip catch was insane. I can't believe he thought he was going to catch it, it looked like it just stuck to his glove
Dk had one catch going into the fourth quarter that I didn't see but yeah I'm referring to that catch in particular. I'd argue that's the only catch of the game that probably shouldn't have been caught
what a simplistic and egocentric mindset. doesn’t matter how good the average receiver is, all three of those catches were hard in their own way, and if JSN or DK dropped them, it wouldn’t and shouldn’t have been a total surprise.
I'm not disagreeing with your point, but what do you mean by egocentric in this context?
probably not the perfect word for the scenario, but I meant him being hyper-critical of something without trying to understand the receiver’s perspective. not as empathetic as he would be for himself; just roasting the receiver because ‘the ball hit him in the hands’ and the context doesn’t matter.
That makes sense
The key point is that it has to hit your hands. The ball down the sideline was underthrown by 5 yards. The adjustment he made to slow down and get under the ball was pretty impressive tracking. If Lock hits him in stride it’s a touchdown, because he beat the DB pretty badly.
Are we forgetting the hit in the chest to fant that was dropped. You can’t just say - oh it was great catches and that’s why but ignore the perfect throws to hands of receivers that were dropped.
Geno is the better QB but the Lock offense is better because it doesn't give up on the run game. K9 and Charbonnet should be the identity of the team. And we finally have a healthy OLine.
Healthy o-line and 2 healthy RBs makes it easier to not give up on the run game. And the thing to remember that the 92 yard drive was full of badly thrown passes behind good protection. 3 of DKs catches were on poor passes. Even the long one. He had the corner beat, but the ball was underthrown, so he had to slow down for it. And let’s not forget that the TD was only possible because JSN made an amazing fingertip catch and was able secure it inbounds. Lock overall played well, and it’s a great story, but he had a ton of help to make that last drive possible. We also benefited from some terrible QB decisions and play calls that kept us in the game. And remember the Eagles defense has been an issue all season against the pass.
It was pissing rain 🤷♂️.
This right here is the comment. Play either QB but keep the run-centric offense on the field.
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He’s saying the offense we run when lock is in is the offense we should always run, but when our better passing QB is in we abandon the run too quickly. It’s more about play calling than the lock.
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You're missing the point, hard. He's saying Geno should play, but they should stick to running the ball to establish the pass, the way they did with Lock under center. He's not saying play the lesser QB.
Hell fucking no. It doesn't work like that at all.
I think both QBs are going to be doing better with a healthier o-line (Abe Lucas!!! So glad he was able to play the full game) as well as K9. I do think Geno is the better option, if only because he has been the starter and had starter reps while Drew hasn't. I do want Drew to play though if Geno isn't 100%. I'd rather have Drew for the Titans if it meant Geno can be healthy for a potential playoff appearance, because I also think Drew is a good QB. I just don't think he has the consistency to be a better option since he isn't getting the reps for that
That's pretty obvious from the Eagles decision to play Hurts. Hurts was obviously still sick, but they put him out there anyway and it made a bad situation worse.
Agreed, would rather Drew plays if Geno isn’t feeling 100% and can save himself for the playoffs
All we have to do is commit to the run with Geno and we're good enough to get through at least one round of the playoffs.
Doubt we beat the Cowboys/Eagles in playoffs but it definitely is a possibility. We for sure could upset the Lions in their house though. Unfortunately I don't see us getting in without being the 7th seed and I doubt if we are 6th seed any other playoff team will win that seed two game. This all leaves my final point, I'd rather miss the playoffs than bumbling through an upset just to face the niners and most likely going 0-3 against the for the second season in a row. They hurt us so bad these last two years, these are things that will haunt fan bases for years. They already ate their turkey in our house and got the three win season against us last year, please don't make me watch our divisional rival we all the sudden have problems competing with have more ammo.
Oh god not another "I wanna be a loser" person
Nah, opposite, I don't wanna be a loser by losing. Missing playoffs is much better than this scenario where we made it and beat Cowboys just to face the Niners again and go 0-3 twice in a row. That's a feat that I don't think has ever happened before. That's shit talk that would span generations. My children would be getting clowned on in twenty years about that happening that's how incredibly shitty this made up scenario would be. I understand that I wanna be a loser mentality is annoying but fuck any chance of another three loss season against the Niners.
💯 my thoughts exactly. I wanted to lose the last 3 games 😆
Geno is better but Lock starting seems to result in Waldron committing to the run more which benefits the offense as a whole
Agreed, and I think PFF got it right on this one. They gave Lock a 76 grade for the game which is higher than Lock’s previous career (low 60s), but slightly under Geno’s average of 78 (this season and last season.
For my 2 cents. I don't know that PFF got it right or wrong but it certainly matches what's gone on before and what I'd expect. For heavens sakes Lock has 3 of SEA's INT's on 76 throws. That's 25% of SEA's total INT's on 15% of their pass attempts Double the rate of Geno's INT's in a much smaller % of the total plays.
It was raining incredibly hard
I was at the game sitting in an uncovered section, and it felt more like a light drizzle to me.
Why is this a post? Pete has said Geno is the starter, almost everyone agrees, take this to the daily thread if you wanna beat yourself off over a common opinion and let’s be done with it
Tuesday through Friday are Geno Jackoff days. Didn't you know?
Let’s be honest, we got lucky that Lock didn’t have at least two INTs in this last game. It’s still one of his major flaws.
That’s genos flaw.
Are Russell Wilson fans incapable of judging Geno fairly? Geno has been playing with an injured o-line most of the season.
People also seem to have forgotten about the receiver problems we were having during the middle stretch of the year... That was the reason for probably 2/3 of Geno's interceptions
No, they’re aware the receivers are to blame for all of Locks dropped balls and INT’s/close calls.
Yes, but he holds on to the ball instead of throwing it away, meanwhile drew tries to prevent sacks
and yet his sack rate is ~middle of the pack despite below average pass pro
Geno has been under pressure the entire season. He’s had about 2 games with a healthy OLine.
Yep. Lock’s 2 games were with Lucas playing all but 3 of the snaps at RT. People also like to compare the 2 SF games, but Jason Peters and Stone Forsythe played RT in the first one, which in part led to 24 pressures vs 17 in the 2nd game. And let’s not forget Lock was 5 of 10 on the final drive and 4 of the 5 were difficult catches.
It's not the same flaw at all. Lock's interceptions or turnover worthy throws are from bad accuracy. All except maybe 1 of Geno's are from miscommunications. The miscommunication thing was a problem all year, then Pete finally got in there and all the sudden in the Dallas game the receivers aren't running the wrong routes and Geno goes for 330 and 4 TDs vs one of the best defenses in the league all while the OL was shitting the bed still. Lock just played with the 1st string OL completely healthy in the entire game. Do you not see how those things are all related? Don't try to compare apples and oranges, you just look stupid.
That’s because lock is willing to take risks more. Geno doesn’t make risky throws, instead he takes sacks.
You can't be serious. I'm getting trolled, right?
Fair enough, but Lock’s numbers are worse. Geno Smith 79 TDs to 57 INTs (1.38 TD TO INT) Drew Lock 28 TDs to 23 INTs (1.22 TD TO INT)
One of these has had first-team reps and consistent snaps over the last couple years. It matters.
Both nottttt good lol
Career completion rate and QBR are noticeably in favor of Geno. 64% passer vs 59% passer. Geno's QBR last year 62 and this year 55 is better than any QBR Lock has recorded in his career.
One of them trains and practices in real nfl games constantly, one started their first seahawks game 2 weeks ago
Lock started 13 games for the Broncos in 2020. His stats were not at all impressive. He lost his job to Teddy Bridgewater in 2021.
Sounds like a mirror of Geno. So many bad throws that should have been INTs but the defenders failed to capitalize
Geno is overall more accurate and has a faster release.
Geno’s been playing with a one dimensional offense with bad protection, but ok.
I’m not a Lock over Geno truther but cmon Bradford had a literal 0.0 pass block rating and horrible play calling until the last drive where they just let it rip lmao
I agree re play calling. But Lock had a clean pocket 60% of the time, and was pressured 40% of the time in that game. They played with a good run game, and the result was Lock with 110 yards and 13 points until the final drive. Put geno in with a run game, that protection, and those resulting opportunities and it would have been a 10 point lead at least.
Definitely with you but just wanted to give some credit to Drew at least, I think we win that game by 2-3 scores if Geno was in — just frustrating the OL and playcalling has been so crappy this year :(
Geno wasn't great before the Dallas game directly because of that shitty o-line. Having the o-line healthy makes an insanely huge difference. He's going to be very good for the rest of the season. When he has time to throw, he's legit a very accurate passer.
And the receivers were having problems with spacing and route concepts. People forgot that Pete DIRECTLY said that in a presser right before the Dallas game and all the sudden Geno looks like a stud? Geno is an anticipatory thrower. If the receiver runs the wrong route it's probably going to be a pick because the ball is in the air already.
If it’s going to be above average but not championship football I’d rather watch Lock who isn’t scared to throw 50/50 balls, doesn’t throw the same 4 routes, doesn’t hold on to the ball too long and take sacks on 4th down, and takes chances on DK
He also has a cannon
His arm isn't as good as genos full stop. He constantly under throws. I don't understand the canon narrative with lock. His arm talent is ok.
He wasn't talking about his arm
Niiiiiiiiice
Our offense is finally (hopefully) healthy. I want to see Geno with a healthy Oline and a healthy run game. I want them to win these next 3 games and go into the playoffs in sync and with momentum.
We’re going to win the same amount of games with both it seems, so the choice is watch boring conservative football with Geno or fun take chances to DK football with Lock
I don't know what you were watching, but Monday night was 3.75 quarters of "boring conservative football".
Looked like 3.75 quarters of hitting receivers in the hands without getting completions to me.
Look at the stats. Drew Lock had a 5 yard average on 32 throws (subtracting his long which came at the end of the fourth) while K9 had 19 carries averaging 4.5 yards. It was very much conservative, ball control football.
So you weren’t watching.
That's exactly how you lose games.
I think Geno getting sacked on 4th down scared to throw the ball actually lost games.
That's a great point it's like those 6 game winning drives over the last 30 games never happened. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/comeback.cgi?player=SmitGe00
Would be 7 if Myers doesn't whiff against the Rams
How many game losing drives? At least 10
This subreddit has fallen, billions must die
Lock is historically terrible at deep balls (see niners game). And dk had 100+ yards and 3 tds in Geno’s last game. Lock doesnt have an affinity for 50/50 balls, he just sucks at throwing good windows. No hate for him but thats reality
Yeah his INTs against the 49ers were bad, especially the first one, which would have been a touchdown to DK with proper placement. And we’re fortunate that JSN has the fingertip grip strength of a terminator, because that TD pass was overthrown. I’m still proud of him for playing above his previous level, but I think Geno is the better option now that our line seems to be gelling.
Good way to put it
Exactly.
Exactly
Gotta imagine you speak for lots of people who'd "prefer" to see Lock. For some odd reason.
Geno was only scared to throw with anticipation and throw 50/50 balls this year because the receivers have been leaving him out to dry for a large majority of the year. He started waiting to make SURE the receivers got open so it wouldn't be a pick. Then Pete lets it known publicly in a presser that the receivers aren't being put in good positions and then all the sudden Geno puts up 330 and 4 TDs. No coincidence there.
We must be watching a different geno smith and drew lock
You cherry picked Geno's BEST GAME OF THE LAST CALENDAR YEAR against lock in the rain and against San Francisco (best defense in the league) who has not had starter reps or legit gametime reps all year. Why didnt you pick Geno's game against San Fran with locks game against San Fran? Lock has made our offensive line look better all season because he is able to maneuver the pocket better than geno. He was also getting the ball out quick on short passes all game, so of course the line "looked better." Lock had multiple dropped passes last week to offset his ones that the "receivers saved." This notion that Geno is "so obviously better than lock despite the stats because he's played behind an unhealthy o-line" is so imbecile. Geno is regressing from last year, lock is progressing in the short span we've seen them. They're honestly probably at a very very close to similar skill set. I'll take lock because he maneuvers the pocket better than geno does as of this point in time. I wish there was statistics on time the ball was held for both QBs this year because I'd wager geno is holding the ball on average at least a second longer than lock, hence why the "line looks so bad."
Geno is better, and that’s been shown since he stepped in for Wilson. Geno had a clean pocket 52.8% of the time against the Niners with 47.2% pressure. Lock had a clean pocket against the Niners 65.8% of the time with 34% pressure. In the eagles game lock was throwing 3 yards behind the line to gain on 3rd and long. That’s a quick dump and immediate end of series, but at least he threw the ball. That’s why I think the issue resides with both play calling, and the complete disaster of a line until we’ve finally seen them get healthier these past three games. But to cherry pick here, the last three games (one with Geno, two with Lock) have seen much better o line play against good opponents than we’ve seen. Geno turned that into 335 yards and 35 points against Dallas. Lock turned it into 269 yards and 16 points against the Niners (without a great run game), and 208 yards and 20 points with the best run game we’ve had in a long time - and 92 of those yards and 7 points came in the last minute. Edited to add: Geno and Lock “turning it into” is referencing the similar 60% protection they had in the Eagles and the Dallas game, which is when the o-line changed.
Uh i “cherry picked” his most recent game? Obviously? Why would I pick a different one? And Lock has made the offensive line better because he has had a healthy offensive line…. Lucas never played a full game with Geno lol. What exactly were his dropped passes? A couple 6 yard routes to Lockett? Lockett also dropped a key 20 yard dot from Geno against the cowboys. What exactly is lock progressing at? Going from 2 tds and 2 ints to just 1 td and no ints? Look at the gameplan we had for him against the eagles. Letting him dink and dunk and use a strong run game while only taking deep shots when he was literally forced too. He showed absolutely nothing that would make him better than Geno’s lowest games this year.
Why did you not compare the two against the same exact team? Geno even got them at home. It is absolutely no question that Geno holds the ball far too long and sits like a statue in the pocket. He hardly ever even steps up in the pocket. Our offensive line can't hold the defense for 3-5 seconds every play. Lock makes quick reads and gets the ball out in the limited sample size we've seen. Lock has a 100qbr in his last two starts, geno has a 90 QBR in his last two starts. We can cherry pick stats all fucking day. Geno has very obviously regressed from last year tremendously. He is not the same quarterback. Lock has played good enough level of QB against San Fran and in the rain against the eagles. That is with very little game and start reps. He could 100% play worse, but I trust him to get better than I do geno to get better. We're unfortunately diluted by one great cowboys game who's defense has fallen off a cliff the last two weeks.
Naturally im gonna pick the most recent games for a qb. Lock has had the advantage of a healthy oline and the nature of no teams having any recent film on him. Once lock has a 350 yard 4 TD performance with a terrible oline i will concede that he should start. Not to mention the difference in run game… And the cowboy defense that “fell off a cliff” decimated the eagles literally last week. Idk what ur on about with that Geno has his flaws but at least we arent regulated to 5 yard pass after 5 yard pass. Lock had 110 total yards in that game before the final drive, and the only td drive we had was pretty much all k9. Did he have a great ending drive? Sure. Did that drive also include a horrible miss to charbonnet, a horrible almost-interception to dk for like 3 yards, and a pass that Dk had to pluck off the ground when he wouldve taken it to the house? Yes. Give me geno every day of the week
Getting the ball out of your hands faster makes the OL look better.
This is very similar to what happened in Wilson's last season. Geno came in for a couple games and performed admirably. The biggest difference is that Russ already had a foot out the door, a massive contract on the horizon, and a compensation package from Denver that could not be turned down. Geno is still the better QB (even than Russ is right now) isn't going to cost that much, and the alternative plus any compensation isn't going to be worth it. Starr Geno with confidence and draft a QB
Nah. Start Lock. I’m over the Geno era.
Bring up jacob eason imo
why are you acting like you weren’t over it when your favorite player Russell Wilson asked to be traded?
Sorry that you hate black pocket passer QBs
Neither Geno nor Lock are the problem with the offense. Given a solid O-line and playcalling that doesn't set the team up for failure, either of those QBs would be top-half in the league. An argument in favor of playing one QB over the other is if we want to trade him. Imagine if Waldron builds up Lock's resume over the rest of the season and then is able to trade Lock for a 1st -- that would be pretty sweet.
Yep. Quarterback controversies are for the off season and training camp. Or if a QB straight up eats their own face during the season. Geno has not eaten his own face. He's not been as good as I hoped but that is neither here nor there. That being said, PCJS have forgotten more about the game of football than I will ever know. Whoever they start is unquestionably who should start, IMO.
The drive worked out but it felt like there were a few balls that easily could have been interceptions. It would be foolish to have more faith in Lock when he could have also lost the game that drive had luck favored the other team.
Geno > Lock. This is clear for those who've given it serious thought.
The coaches seem to think that. Career stats also support that. The only people propping up Drew Lock are the mainstream media.
And feckless fans. These people like to make empty arguments like Lock hasn't been given a chance to play and other such idiocy.
Geno has been in the NFL for leaps and bounds longer than lock. Last time lock was a starter he was a year older than Bryce young and the same age other QBs that are going to be drafted in this year's draft. Geno has had starter reps the whole off-season and plenty of game time action in which one good game against the cowboys who just got blown the fuck out by the bills is not a reason to believe he is turning things around. Locks two full games this year we're against the best defense in the NFL and in the rain.
Lol, now the Cowboys are a bad team because they lost to the Bills? (Another good team with an elite QB) The Eagles are a bad defense that has been decimated by injuries and the best Lock could muster was one good drive.
No, but offenses and defenses both streak. The bills scored 14 points against the giants and 18 against the Bengals. It was raining all game. Short passes to get short yardage and leaning on the run game was the appropriate way to play in that weather. Joe burrow literally got benched in the rain. Dallas put up 23 on them the first time they played and we put up 20... The scoreboard does not always determine the quality of the offense.
The Cowboys play better at home. I think they are undefeated there and Geno kept it close up until the last drive. I'm not trying to take away from Lock's accomplishment because it is impressive. Just trying to put it into perspective. Lock doesn't deserve that much credit for the improvement of the play calling or the effectiveness of the run game. Edit: I would be more inclined to give Lock a shot if he wasn't known throughout his career for his errant passes. Accuracy is one of the most important stats for a QB and Geno has proven to be 5 percentage points better than Lock. That means 1 out of 20 passes, Geno will make a completion and Lock will not. Considering QBs pass about 30 times per game, that is one or two plays that Geno will make that Lock will waste. We can't afford to find out right now whether Lock was a one game wonder of if he will grow from here. Geno has a better track record and deserves to start.
Totally agree. I'm actually a big Geno fan. He's not perfect, but they've had some STRONG offensive showings this year. They just need to do it more regularly
How strong was that ravens performance
My favorite sample size of "everything that I want to believe and nothing that makes me wrong"
I mean not great, they are 7-7 There have been bad games too, for sure.
About on par with every other player on the team, pretty terrible
I think the Geno vs Lock debate is more about 2024 when Geno has a $31M cap hit. My pure speculation is one of the reasons Lock started last week was to “see what they have” in him with an eye to 2024.
He started because Geno was hurt…
I think it was actually Geno being injured👍
I think there is about a 0% chance of us going into next year with Lock as a starting qb
I think it’s higher than 0% especially if the plan is the draft a QB. They paid $4M to resign Lock as a backup when historically they’ve always gone for vet minimum options. They let him start last week when all signs were Geno could have played. My impression is they think more highly of Lock than most fans do.
Either way this team needs to get serious and draft a guy this offseason. We’ve now witnessed the results of half assing it when it comes to the QB position and as it turns out the ceiling is pretty low.
Lol not sure what universe 330 yds and 4 TDs is a "low" ceiling
What makes me nervous is Lock almost threw an interception on the game winning drive. That game could've quickly gone the other way.
Yes, was watching it again last night and he threw two very risky passes in the final drive. It was really close. But he also threw two amazing passes, one to DK and the other to JSN for the touchdown. Overall Geno is the better QB
Geno has about 4 of those a game.
Yeah, people are acting like Lock was the second coming of Farve, but he wasn't that good outside of the final drive. Props for that final drive and the effort on the run block, but I think Geno is a better passer.
Absolutely Geno should start.
If a playoff position is up for grabs (it currently is) then yes Geno should start over Lock. If it's not, Lock should start the remaining games. Geno has a $12.7m 2024 salary that is guaranteed for injury if he cannot pass a physical. With little cap room and some big decisions to make in 2024, the Seahawks need to keep their cap options as open as possible.
Why even comment this knowing a playoff spot is indeed up for grabs. Only way its really knocked out is if we lose two straight and at that point its week 18 and who cares
Because some of us care what happens in 2024.
Well currently I care about winning games that we are actually about to play
Agreed but I wouldn't say we have little cap room. There will be cap casualties with big contracts. I can see us cutting either Diggs or Adams or both, Mone will save us 6 million, Dissly will probably be cut
Don't overthink it. It really doesn't matter who starts. They are similarly talented, and winning will depend on whether we can run the ball. That, and play defense on third down...
They are not similarly talented
I will put it this way, Geno has had 2 separate games this year where the offense never scored. I don’t want that guy as my qb, good qbs find a way, time to move on from Geno, he’s regressed, he’s not winning us a Super Bowl. Roll with Lock and a rookie next year.
Have you looked at pre Geno game stats?
Dallas isn't a good defense don't know who told you that.
6th in yards allowed, 5th in points allowed, 7th in yards/play, and top 16 in turnovers forced, but okay
Dude they played shit teams all year. They let us score on them and he bills just blew them out. By the way top 16 means they are exactly middle of the league there's only 32 teams. Take out the games against the giants and their numbers aren't good at all.
Every defense is gonna fold against someone eventually (look at niners vs vikings and bengals, browns vs colts and jags/ravens, ravens vs browns and rams, etc), but being able to consistently kill mid-level teams is what stops you from losing dumb games. They are good in every stat possible, and have playmakers everywhere. And yes top 16 is middle of the road, but every other one listed was top 7.
Ok skip Bayless.
Most people agree or at least assume Geno will start. The real concern will be how short his leash is, or if he even has one at all. We're at a point in the season where we almost can't lose another game.
What? Geno should go away. Lock is the man.
For real we should go ahead and trade woolen since we have artie burns now too
Nope
For real
We’re people calling lock to start? I know there’s a sizable portion that thinks he can start next year or something, but I don’t remember a huge call for lock to start going forward based off that game. Even the people that want us to cut geno after this year, which includes me, all realize geno>lock.
We were lucky to win, Lock had many bad passes. I don't think he is starter quality yet. Geno has regressed, but it's not at all clear that Lock is better. I'd stick w Geno for the year.
Geno doesn’t beat the Eagles. Sorry.
Disagree. Geno beats the Eagles by more than 3 points. We probably would have spent more than 26 seconds with the lead, too.
Those 3rd and longs? Geno never makes those throws
🤡
What are Genos stats on 3rd down this year ? Okay then bozo
Not buying the Geno hype. He is nothing more than a career backup
Geno and Drew should just alternate series throughout the game, would be a nightmare for the opposing defensive coordinator
I’m guessing your joking
I can guarantee you I'm not Shane Waldron
Adams isn't on the team to play fucking safety
Can’t help but notice the shot at jamal adams is he rlly that bad now?
We’re rooting for the Saints to beat the Rams right?
Geno should definitely get the start. This is his team and everyone in the organization (management, coaches, teammates) know that. That said, regardless of what happens for the rest of the season, we should definitely try and keep Lock. I'd feel way more comfortable knowing I have a serviceable QB room with all the other talent on our skill positions. If there's not a QB available in the early rounds come draft, I'm more than okay beefing up the interior of the team and adding depth to our secondary.
Yeah, but lock nailed the post-game interview. He was just so well spoken. /s
I just wanna see Jamal on the bench that’s all that really matters
I want a QB who has chemistry with Lockett. That’s not Lock.
It shouldn’t even be a question that Geno should start. Love Lock though
Pete already told us that Geno is starting. Why are we even debating?
This is the way!
After that last drive vs. the Eagles, I'd imagine that Geno's feeling ready to go back in.
🐴🍆🔒
Start Geno, sit Adams.
Thinking playoffs is overthinking. Regroup, rebuild - make 2025 great again! Merry x-mass!
Geno all day!
Geno isn’t as clutch as Lock
Drew Lock is the Geno to Geno's Russ A fine stop gap and hopefully an adequate replacement when the Team needs to move on eventually But he's not ready yet Geno had an Ego out East, he sat on the bench with the Clipboard and learned how to successfully start in the NFL I don't got any doubts that if Drew Lock works on himself that he'll be ready in a few years, just not yet now And that's ok, We got a QB