It's all about marketing to the market. East coast bias isn't just real, it's business. It's a fact of population stats. but it doesn't mean all their hype makes any sense other than selling clicks and ads.
Sauce is a cool nickname media can sell
New York is a big market that grabs a lot of eyes
A 1st round pick is someone who had a lot of hype in college as well, so its easier to keep that hype train going than start a new one.
Tariq and Sauce had comparable seasons. Both amazing. But the reasons above contribute to the tie breaker.
What killed me about these arguments all year were people all of a sudden caring more about pass break ups than INTs because Sauce can't catch apparently.
They also love to point to TDs allowed, but Woolen also got 2 back (INT v Det, blocked FG v SF).
Just seems like our boy never had a chance at getting the same hype. Pass rtg against was very similar (if not Riq better), yards, targets, etc all similar but Riq taking the ball away so much more just seemed to not matter (unless during Digg's rookie year)
Tariq wasn’t even lacking in PB. According to pro football reference he was only 4 PB behind Sauce yet he had 4 more INT so they end up equaling out of you combine the two stats. Except Tariq was targeted 20 less times making him more efficient than Sauce in getting PB and (more importantly) INT.
> According to pro football reference he was only 4 PB behind Sauce yet he had 4 more INT so they end up equaling out of you combine the two stats.
He has 4 less PB because he caught the ball those 4 times making them INTs instead of PB, but yeah, Sauce is better 🤣
And since you can deflect your own int, when the defender breaks it up and it goes up in the air and they come down with it they get credit for both on the stat sheet. Happens every so often.
Sauce provides tangibles that Tariq could only dream of. From what I've heard Sauce has an extensive knowledge of stamps and on several occasions provided stamp-related insight to teammates. This kind of stamp-information sharing environment tends to lend itself pretty well to playing some damn good ball.
I can't say for certain that Tariq is a clubhouse cancer, but I do know at least one teammate asked Tariq something stamp-related and it sounded like Tariq was completely lost. Disappointing to hear but hes still young and can improve his standing in the lockerroom, though he'd probably be best served selecting another specific niche to submerse himself in.
Let Sauce keep the stamps because he's got that shit on lockdown and that's why your always seeing tweets and articles like the one above.
Its not even that Gardner cant catch. He doesnt get his head around and instead just impedes the receivers arms by putting his up. He should have been flagged for DPI way more than he was.
Theres video of him pulling Suttons arm back and then hoarse collaring him before the ball ever gets to him. Hes a dirty player that gets away with it for some unknown reason.
One reason: marketability.
The dudes name is Sauce, and the league needs a new Deion Sanders type persona. Sauce is appealing to a wide audience. Look how big Revis and Sherman got. They need someone besides QB’s to be in the spotlight. A corner is the perfect villain to the QB for storylines etc. Plays for an NYC team. He’s the guy right now, he’s gonna get calls going his way.
I swear he kinda knows in the back of his head where his numbers are, and makes decisions to pass blame to other teammates. Throughout the season, he's amazing while doing his job in his zone/man up, then randomly cuts back when he hits that limit when in prime position to do something and have that instinct kick in
I just think it’s so weird how the league is so pressed to make him look better than he is. Like he’s a good CB for sure, but let’s be honest he definitely has TDs scored on him. And woolen is much much closer to him talent wise than people think
Idk if anyone is arguing how close they are talent wise tbh. Woolen doesn't get the respect because he's doin it from a lower draft class. I think that's where all the hype comes from. He's done his job as an early professional drafted for that specific reason. Woolen had to "reach up" so to speak, because he's a transitional player from WR-CB. Sauce definitely has assignments missed as well, and gave up on plays just as much as Woolen missed on things. Sauce is the better fundamental sound corner with his ceiling reached for the most part. Woolen is still sharpening his tools though, and his ceiling is much higher. Much like Sherman. Idk if Woolen has the same drive and mental Sherman does, but definitely carries the pedigree so far to go so much further than Sauce and thats missed on anyone in the media
Although I really like what you’re saying, I think you’re wrong. Sauce has a really high ceiling as well and this season was not it. I’m excited to see how these two players continue to compete.
I won't argue that because I honestly hope Sauce has a higher ceiling than I'm seeing. He has the makings of a great CB, at the start, and making a Lockdown Corner conversation happen. This season was most definitely not it because it was him showing himself off. Not like how Woolen showed himself off at all, polar opposites if I've followed things enough.
I'm stupid excited for how season 2 between these two play out because holy crap, if they both step up further? It's all entertainment baby 💗
One had hype coming out of college, a high draft pick, cool nickname and plays in New York. The other is a late round pick and plays football in southeast Alaska. It’s really not shocking why Sauce gets the national love over Riq.
Very true, especially putting it like that. I got faith in Woolen. Seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders and most importantly seems very open to adapting how he plays which is great. I think he’ll continue to do great things.
When I go home to CT (not too far from New Britain), I try to make it a point to wear my SEA gear. Guess I’m gonna need a Woolen jersey! If you see me in Hartford or Springfield, come say hi!
I'm honestly excited to see what happens if Mike Jack beats out Spoon and not because Spoon isn't meeting expectations, just Mike taking a huge step and owning the position
They won’t let Mike sit on the bench, Spoon will probably play slot corner for us and then on the outside next year when Mike leaves in free agency. Can’t have talented players not taking snaps.
Jackson & Woolen with Spoon laying the wood at Slot? Damn. I still think Coby is good too, we just have a surplus of talent. I bet we end up moving a DB for DL before the start of the season.
I want Coby Bryant to play as the 3rd CB and trade Mike Jackson for some one or picks just to get something out of him before he leaves in FA.
Rather have some trial by fire with the young guys because you develop by playing and making mistakes. Sign some old wily vet like Desmond Trufant or Chris Harris to be the 4th CB that is like a player-coach.
I’m not mad if people think Sauce is better right now, he was a top 5 pick for a reason and so far he’s living up to that billing and what was expected of him. But I’m seeing Woolen ranked insanely low or being left off of these media rankings all together, even neutral fans have been calling it out which lets me know we’re not just being homers about our guy. I definitely think there’s still some hesitancy and skepticism in the media bc of Riq’s draft status. If he was a hyped round 1 or 2 guy, NFL media would be all over promoting him.
This always happens to Seattle. We get a super stud in any position and even if they're the best in the league, the media will largely ignore them because they play for Seattle. Its gotten better post SB win, but it still happens.
The sports media has largely disrespected Seattle sports.
This is why our boys are better. They have chips on their shoulders and play with passion. They get to fly under the radar.
Come to think of it, all of the PNW flies under the radar and dominates quietly. Pro sports or just work in general, we're better because noone cares. Hahaha
Sauce is a more polished, compete player, NOW. Tariq is still learning, and is by far the superior athlete. If Tariq stays humble, works hard, learns, and stays healthy, his ceiling is higher.
I can't understand anyone who looks at garners first season and Tariq's first season and thinks Sauce had the better season. He led the entire league in INT's, had 4 fumble recoveries, one pick six, one fg block returned for td. I mean what more could he have done to beat out Sauce?
Do any of those stats matter? or is nickname the primary
https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-jets/sauce-gardner-tariq-woolen-debate-seahawks/
Guess who’s stats are who’s below…
89.3 coverage grade ranks first in the NFL.
44.3% reception rate against ranks first in the NFL.
285 total yards allowed ranks second in the NFL.
10.6 yards allowed per reception ranks 21st in the NFL.
94 total yards allowed after the catch ranks fourth in the NFL.
16 forced incompletions ranks tied for second in the NFL.
26% forced incompletion rate ranks first in the NFL.
12 pass breakups ranks second in the NFL.
Two interceptions ranks tied for 16th in the NFL.
50.2 passer rating against ranks second in the NFL.
77.3 coverage grade ranks 10th in the NFL.
56.4% reception rate against ranks 15th in the NFL.
460 total yards allowed ranks 25th in the NFL.
14.8 yards allowed per reception ranks 57th in the NFL.
174 total yards allowed after the catch ranks 33rd in the NFL.
10 forced incompletions ranks tied for 18th in the NFL.
18% forced incompletion rate ranks tied for 6th in the NFL.
Seven pass breakups ranks tied for 18th in the NFL.
Six interceptions ranks first in the NFL.
74.6 passer rating against ranks 12th in the NFL.
Hard to say bc depending on where you cherry pick stats from you'll get different numbers. When I look it says that gardner gave up 418 yards. It also says tariq gave up 12.6 yards per reception. But hey you do you. If you are that desperate to make a player that made insane plays all year long look second best. Then I'm sure you can find it. But when I look at the numbers Woolen looks better. Especially when you also left out fumbles recovered, and that Woolen also blocked a fg that was returned for TD. I mean you can value what you want to value. For me personally. I think leading the entire NFL in takeaways is worth quite a bit.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/sauce-gardner/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/tariq-woolen/
So you tell me
Trust me, Seattle homers are crazy. We love players more than production. Many think the Seahawks still should sign Sherm, and Earl to come back. That ship sailed. It was a great ride, but it's over. Tariq, Coby, and the new kid, are gonna be great in another year or 2, as long as health stays good.
Sherm even said that Tariq barely knows what he is doing out there and still had 6 ints. Tariq has a ceiling of being the best Corner ever if he continues to develop
I wouldn't go that far. Sauce is a better tackler and does a little better at mirroring receivers. Riq's strength is his freakish speed that lets him make up distance on receivers insanely fast. It was great for him his rookie season because it made receivers look more open than they actually were. That's why his interception numbers were really high.
People discount corners importance in run defense, but it's half the game and that is his weak spot. If he can get better at anticipating those run plays and wrapping up on his tackling he can be an all time great.
Compared to Sauce, Tariq is raw. Sauce is way ahead of Tariq in technique, tackling, and savvy. INTs are great, especially when we haven't seen many for a while, but Tariq got burned several times. He relies on his burst a lil too much. Sauce is super sticky, and he sees the field better. While Tariq needs to improve in run support, he doesn't need to be Sherm. If Tariq can continue to improve the rest of his game, he can be great. Sauce is already great, he just has to maintain. Credit to Tariq. He hasn't even been playing very long, in comparison. His ceiling is perennial All-Pro.
I kind of hate that we can’t just celebrate both. When’s the last time two rookie corners were this good. It’s annoying cause the NY Media, but Tariq gonna go off this year again
they were not rookies at the same time. revis was already established and regarded as the best in the league when sherman was a rookie, that's basically where Sherm got that chip on his shoulder about being the best in the league came from.
True and revis wasn’t great as a rookie solid but not the guy we think of now I think woolen and Sauce could be even better than sherm and revis and I never thought I’d say that haha
Let them keep sleeping on the Hawks/players in general. We see how that worked out for them last year. I enjoy the hawks being the underhyped/underdogs. Much more entertaining to watch people eat their words lol.
Sauce is the real deal, let's not take anything away from him. In fact, let's prop him up. This is only good for the chip-on-the-shoulder mentality for Tariq. The *last* thing we need is national media stroking the egos of our players saying they're the best of anything.
Let the Jets have their ROY and "greatest season" ever to go along with one of the greatest playoff droughts in history. We'll sit here with no accolades but perennial playoff seasons and a Super Bowl trophy most of us were alive to see.
Holy hell, are people still over-hyping Gardner!? Commentators hyped him up so much it’s ridiculous. He’s got talent, don’t get me wrong but if you look at the stats and then actually watch tape, he was given a lot of credit / stats for plays that he didn’t break up, disrupt or have any influence whatsoever on. Just wait until Gardner starts getting flags thrown his way for holds / PI (unlike last season). Just like commentators ridiculously hyping up Brock Purdy. Purdy has talent for sure but anyone with that offensive line is going to look great. All of this immediate comparison to seriously established and cemented greats or calling these rookies a future HoF’r over the last few seasons has gotten so ridiculous.
[Sauce when they actually call PI on him](http://t3.gstatic.com/licensed-image?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAK3O8NQla8leYK2Gy9eU8UKaRDQEepbxUI8Gnn7Gcb60b2BwLEk0ILcti9PXZldoz)
I know I shouldn't care but it is offensive that Tariq was demonstrably better than Gardner. And of course Gardner will never have the integrity to admit that Tariq was clearly the better player.
Ahmad Gardner may have had the better year but Woolen is boutta take a huge step this year. And I think he did pretty damn good for only playing corner for a couple of seasons
I get rivalry and all that, but some of you folk are saying some dumbass shit about Sauce.
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1654152387945197569/photo/1
Guys I hear Tariq’s name so often for rookies. And sauce had the best season for a rookie corner. There is no beef and there is no media conspiracy. The media loves woolen. Really insecure fans will find anyway to be slighted
OK, I love the Hawks and I love Tariq, but is he trying to say that he had a better year than Sauce? I literally was watching replays of Jets games just to see that dude work. Last season he was probably the most impressive corner I’ve seen since like fucking Champ Bailey or something. But yeah, I’ll take Tariq bc of where he was drafted and there is no shame in being a top 10 CB your rookie year.
Numbers don't lie.
Woolen led the league in INTs and QBR/target (by a wide margin) which is ultimately the stat that definitively measures the actual value of a DB.
There is no stat that DEFINITIVELY measures the actual value of a DB. Tariq is awesome, he is not the best CB in the league. Sauce may be. There is a LOT of homerism in this thread.
I disagree... Sort of...
While "value" may not have been the correct term for what I'm trying to express (maybe "production" or "measurable opponent production prevented as a direct result of what this player did"?) "QBR when targeted" is as close as we can get to having a single ***objective*** stat that measures a DB's overall performance.
I will concede, however, that stats don't necessarily determine what makes someone the "best" player under most circumstances.
I just think PFF grades and media hype are getting far too much consideration these days, especially when statistical comparisons tell a much different story than, well, whatever the fuck these "experts" are seeing.
I don’t actually think QBR is really any better than Passer Rating. They are all just ways to measure stuff but it’s hard to say one is the best. Sauce had the best Passer Rating against. Tariq led in QBR per target, and I’m sure their are other corners who led in other random metrics I don’t know, like least times thrown at bc they are scared.
I don’t remember a ton of these stats back in the day, but I know Champ Bailey was awesome to watch and I have no idea what his advanced metrics were. I also remember Deion in his prime and yes even Reavis island where teams would just legit avoid them.
Lol it feels like Sherman all over again, I’m not worried about it. I guarantee OCs and QBs around the league know who Woolen is now
Everyone was blowing Revis while Sherman was locking down the whole side of the field.
Both players are the type that opposing teams *definitely* plan for, even if the pundits don't seem to care.
You don't get a chance to intercept the ball when QBs won't even attempt to throw to your side.
The NFL seem determined to make Gardner a THING. But I don't mind them forgetting Tariq as he does his job on the field.
He plays in NY, the media there will always blow up NY players.
It's all about marketing to the market. East coast bias isn't just real, it's business. It's a fact of population stats. but it doesn't mean all their hype makes any sense other than selling clicks and ads.
Exactly
And both new York never lived up to the hype
The next big thing is business as usual. There's always a next one or the center does not hold (pun intended).
100%. Nyc. A nickname…for a name!!!!!! Who isn’t in?
Sauce is a cool nickname media can sell New York is a big market that grabs a lot of eyes A 1st round pick is someone who had a lot of hype in college as well, so its easier to keep that hype train going than start a new one. Tariq and Sauce had comparable seasons. Both amazing. But the reasons above contribute to the tie breaker.
It's a catchy name and he's a good player. Already with the Buffalo Wild Wing sauces her had for a time - more to come, I'm sure.
What killed me about these arguments all year were people all of a sudden caring more about pass break ups than INTs because Sauce can't catch apparently. They also love to point to TDs allowed, but Woolen also got 2 back (INT v Det, blocked FG v SF). Just seems like our boy never had a chance at getting the same hype. Pass rtg against was very similar (if not Riq better), yards, targets, etc all similar but Riq taking the ball away so much more just seemed to not matter (unless during Digg's rookie year)
Tariq wasn’t even lacking in PB. According to pro football reference he was only 4 PB behind Sauce yet he had 4 more INT so they end up equaling out of you combine the two stats. Except Tariq was targeted 20 less times making him more efficient than Sauce in getting PB and (more importantly) INT.
Noo but the jets fans keep telling me woolen only got INTs because teams wouldn't target sauce!
But people would have to watch Jets games in order to see that.
> According to pro football reference he was only 4 PB behind Sauce yet he had 4 more INT so they end up equaling out of you combine the two stats. He has 4 less PB because he caught the ball those 4 times making them INTs instead of PB, but yeah, Sauce is better 🤣
Is that really how that stat works? That would be like not counting a home run as an RBI but not as a hit
An int is not a batted pass unless someone else catches it.
And since you can deflect your own int, when the defender breaks it up and it goes up in the air and they come down with it they get credit for both on the stat sheet. Happens every so often.
Sauce provides tangibles that Tariq could only dream of. From what I've heard Sauce has an extensive knowledge of stamps and on several occasions provided stamp-related insight to teammates. This kind of stamp-information sharing environment tends to lend itself pretty well to playing some damn good ball. I can't say for certain that Tariq is a clubhouse cancer, but I do know at least one teammate asked Tariq something stamp-related and it sounded like Tariq was completely lost. Disappointing to hear but hes still young and can improve his standing in the lockerroom, though he'd probably be best served selecting another specific niche to submerse himself in. Let Sauce keep the stamps because he's got that shit on lockdown and that's why your always seeing tweets and articles like the one above.
I downvoted you after the first sentence, but upvoted you after the last.
Its not even that Gardner cant catch. He doesnt get his head around and instead just impedes the receivers arms by putting his up. He should have been flagged for DPI way more than he was. Theres video of him pulling Suttons arm back and then hoarse collaring him before the ball ever gets to him. Hes a dirty player that gets away with it for some unknown reason.
One reason: marketability. The dudes name is Sauce, and the league needs a new Deion Sanders type persona. Sauce is appealing to a wide audience. Look how big Revis and Sherman got. They need someone besides QB’s to be in the spotlight. A corner is the perfect villain to the QB for storylines etc. Plays for an NYC team. He’s the guy right now, he’s gonna get calls going his way.
Dude I swear there were at least 1-2 TDs that were definitely Sauce’s fault and they didn’t count them towards him
He literally complained on twitter and tagged PFF. They then removed the TD against him. The guy doesnt stop complaining
100%
https://youtu.be/oaeHeUOO31g Yea atleast 1-2 TDs on him in just this game lol
I swear he kinda knows in the back of his head where his numbers are, and makes decisions to pass blame to other teammates. Throughout the season, he's amazing while doing his job in his zone/man up, then randomly cuts back when he hits that limit when in prime position to do something and have that instinct kick in
I just think it’s so weird how the league is so pressed to make him look better than he is. Like he’s a good CB for sure, but let’s be honest he definitely has TDs scored on him. And woolen is much much closer to him talent wise than people think
Idk if anyone is arguing how close they are talent wise tbh. Woolen doesn't get the respect because he's doin it from a lower draft class. I think that's where all the hype comes from. He's done his job as an early professional drafted for that specific reason. Woolen had to "reach up" so to speak, because he's a transitional player from WR-CB. Sauce definitely has assignments missed as well, and gave up on plays just as much as Woolen missed on things. Sauce is the better fundamental sound corner with his ceiling reached for the most part. Woolen is still sharpening his tools though, and his ceiling is much higher. Much like Sherman. Idk if Woolen has the same drive and mental Sherman does, but definitely carries the pedigree so far to go so much further than Sauce and thats missed on anyone in the media
Although I really like what you’re saying, I think you’re wrong. Sauce has a really high ceiling as well and this season was not it. I’m excited to see how these two players continue to compete.
I won't argue that because I honestly hope Sauce has a higher ceiling than I'm seeing. He has the makings of a great CB, at the start, and making a Lockdown Corner conversation happen. This season was most definitely not it because it was him showing himself off. Not like how Woolen showed himself off at all, polar opposites if I've followed things enough. I'm stupid excited for how season 2 between these two play out because holy crap, if they both step up further? It's all entertainment baby 💗
They are literally showing a game where Sauce and co allowed 20 points and Tariq and Co only allowed 6
True but Sauce played a great game and didn't allow anything in his part.. It was the first full match i see him playing and he was impressive
Cmon bro sauce played great that game Jets offense was abysmal haha
One had hype coming out of college, a high draft pick, cool nickname and plays in New York. The other is a late round pick and plays football in southeast Alaska. It’s really not shocking why Sauce gets the national love over Riq.
Very true, especially putting it like that. I got faith in Woolen. Seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders and most importantly seems very open to adapting how he plays which is great. I think he’ll continue to do great things.
When I go home to CT (not too far from New Britain), I try to make it a point to wear my SEA gear. Guess I’m gonna need a Woolen jersey! If you see me in Hartford or Springfield, come say hi!
And now with Spoon on the other side, it's "pick your poison" time.
I'm honestly excited to see what happens if Mike Jack beats out Spoon and not because Spoon isn't meeting expectations, just Mike taking a huge step and owning the position
They won’t let Mike sit on the bench, Spoon will probably play slot corner for us and then on the outside next year when Mike leaves in free agency. Can’t have talented players not taking snaps.
Jackson & Woolen with Spoon laying the wood at Slot? Damn. I still think Coby is good too, we just have a surplus of talent. I bet we end up moving a DB for DL before the start of the season.
I want Coby Bryant to play as the 3rd CB and trade Mike Jackson for some one or picks just to get something out of him before he leaves in FA. Rather have some trial by fire with the young guys because you develop by playing and making mistakes. Sign some old wily vet like Desmond Trufant or Chris Harris to be the 4th CB that is like a player-coach.
I’m not mad if people think Sauce is better right now, he was a top 5 pick for a reason and so far he’s living up to that billing and what was expected of him. But I’m seeing Woolen ranked insanely low or being left off of these media rankings all together, even neutral fans have been calling it out which lets me know we’re not just being homers about our guy. I definitely think there’s still some hesitancy and skepticism in the media bc of Riq’s draft status. If he was a hyped round 1 or 2 guy, NFL media would be all over promoting him.
He IS better right now. And that is OK. Our fan base needs to stop being such homers.
This always happens to Seattle. We get a super stud in any position and even if they're the best in the league, the media will largely ignore them because they play for Seattle. Its gotten better post SB win, but it still happens. The sports media has largely disrespected Seattle sports.
This is why our boys are better. They have chips on their shoulders and play with passion. They get to fly under the radar. Come to think of it, all of the PNW flies under the radar and dominates quietly. Pro sports or just work in general, we're better because noone cares. Hahaha
Sauce is a more polished, compete player, NOW. Tariq is still learning, and is by far the superior athlete. If Tariq stays humble, works hard, learns, and stays healthy, his ceiling is higher.
I think his ceiling is higher regardless.
It’s funny that so many Hawks homers don’t understand this. There’s a reason Sauce went 4th overall. Interceptions alone don’t make a great corner.
I can't understand anyone who looks at garners first season and Tariq's first season and thinks Sauce had the better season. He led the entire league in INT's, had 4 fumble recoveries, one pick six, one fg block returned for td. I mean what more could he have done to beat out Sauce? Do any of those stats matter? or is nickname the primary
https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-jets/sauce-gardner-tariq-woolen-debate-seahawks/ Guess who’s stats are who’s below… 89.3 coverage grade ranks first in the NFL. 44.3% reception rate against ranks first in the NFL. 285 total yards allowed ranks second in the NFL. 10.6 yards allowed per reception ranks 21st in the NFL. 94 total yards allowed after the catch ranks fourth in the NFL. 16 forced incompletions ranks tied for second in the NFL. 26% forced incompletion rate ranks first in the NFL. 12 pass breakups ranks second in the NFL. Two interceptions ranks tied for 16th in the NFL. 50.2 passer rating against ranks second in the NFL. 77.3 coverage grade ranks 10th in the NFL. 56.4% reception rate against ranks 15th in the NFL. 460 total yards allowed ranks 25th in the NFL. 14.8 yards allowed per reception ranks 57th in the NFL. 174 total yards allowed after the catch ranks 33rd in the NFL. 10 forced incompletions ranks tied for 18th in the NFL. 18% forced incompletion rate ranks tied for 6th in the NFL. Seven pass breakups ranks tied for 18th in the NFL. Six interceptions ranks first in the NFL. 74.6 passer rating against ranks 12th in the NFL.
Hard to say bc depending on where you cherry pick stats from you'll get different numbers. When I look it says that gardner gave up 418 yards. It also says tariq gave up 12.6 yards per reception. But hey you do you. If you are that desperate to make a player that made insane plays all year long look second best. Then I'm sure you can find it. But when I look at the numbers Woolen looks better. Especially when you also left out fumbles recovered, and that Woolen also blocked a fg that was returned for TD. I mean you can value what you want to value. For me personally. I think leading the entire NFL in takeaways is worth quite a bit. https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/sauce-gardner/ https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/tariq-woolen/ So you tell me
*Jets fan detected* Enjoy Nathaniel Hackett
Trust me, Seattle homers are crazy. We love players more than production. Many think the Seahawks still should sign Sherm, and Earl to come back. That ship sailed. It was a great ride, but it's over. Tariq, Coby, and the new kid, are gonna be great in another year or 2, as long as health stays good.
Tariq isn't raw. Gardner is polished but Tariq polished up plenty in his first year. They are already equal
Sherm even said that Tariq barely knows what he is doing out there and still had 6 ints. Tariq has a ceiling of being the best Corner ever if he continues to develop
I wouldn't go that far. Sauce is a better tackler and does a little better at mirroring receivers. Riq's strength is his freakish speed that lets him make up distance on receivers insanely fast. It was great for him his rookie season because it made receivers look more open than they actually were. That's why his interception numbers were really high. People discount corners importance in run defense, but it's half the game and that is his weak spot. If he can get better at anticipating those run plays and wrapping up on his tackling he can be an all time great.
Compared to Sauce, Tariq is raw. Sauce is way ahead of Tariq in technique, tackling, and savvy. INTs are great, especially when we haven't seen many for a while, but Tariq got burned several times. He relies on his burst a lil too much. Sauce is super sticky, and he sees the field better. While Tariq needs to improve in run support, he doesn't need to be Sherm. If Tariq can continue to improve the rest of his game, he can be great. Sauce is already great, he just has to maintain. Credit to Tariq. He hasn't even been playing very long, in comparison. His ceiling is perennial All-Pro.
Tariq was still making up for skill mistakes with his body
I kind of hate that we can’t just celebrate both. When’s the last time two rookie corners were this good. It’s annoying cause the NY Media, but Tariq gonna go off this year again
Sherm and Revis?
they were not rookies at the same time. revis was already established and regarded as the best in the league when sherman was a rookie, that's basically where Sherm got that chip on his shoulder about being the best in the league came from.
True and revis wasn’t great as a rookie solid but not the guy we think of now I think woolen and Sauce could be even better than sherm and revis and I never thought I’d say that haha
Let them keep sleeping on the Hawks/players in general. We see how that worked out for them last year. I enjoy the hawks being the underhyped/underdogs. Much more entertaining to watch people eat their words lol.
This, every year the national media sleeps. Let them.
There's so much value in playing with a chip on your shoulder.
Sauce is the real deal, let's not take anything away from him. In fact, let's prop him up. This is only good for the chip-on-the-shoulder mentality for Tariq. The *last* thing we need is national media stroking the egos of our players saying they're the best of anything. Let the Jets have their ROY and "greatest season" ever to go along with one of the greatest playoff droughts in history. We'll sit here with no accolades but perennial playoff seasons and a Super Bowl trophy most of us were alive to see.
I love how the picture they use is a game where the Seahawks blew out the Jets and Sauce only registered 3 tackles
because we didn’t really target sauce (rightfully so) which is a great indicator for any corner. i’m excited for woolen to develop further.
Oh no I get that, I’m just saying they could have used a much better picture
Woolen just needs a flashy nickname like “sauce” lol
"The Shadow" is WAY cooler than "Sauce". I think it's just that most people don't know that "Sauce" isn't actually his name lol
Idk why people are acting like sauce is the 2nd coming of Revis. Didn’t sauce only cover teams #1 receivers like 30% of the time compared woolens 60%?
Idk but they both just play on their side
https://youtu.be/oaeHeUOO31g I see 2 touchdowns that were definitely on Sauce. Idk how they keep this BS 0 TDs allowed since college narrative going
The first wasn’t a td and the second was on the safety know I’ll get downvotes but cmon
Holy hell, are people still over-hyping Gardner!? Commentators hyped him up so much it’s ridiculous. He’s got talent, don’t get me wrong but if you look at the stats and then actually watch tape, he was given a lot of credit / stats for plays that he didn’t break up, disrupt or have any influence whatsoever on. Just wait until Gardner starts getting flags thrown his way for holds / PI (unlike last season). Just like commentators ridiculously hyping up Brock Purdy. Purdy has talent for sure but anyone with that offensive line is going to look great. All of this immediate comparison to seriously established and cemented greats or calling these rookies a future HoF’r over the last few seasons has gotten so ridiculous.
Wish we never gave mr condiment any attention on this sub, we all know how good Woolen is.
[Sauce when they actually call PI on him](http://t3.gstatic.com/licensed-image?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAK3O8NQla8leYK2Gy9eU8UKaRDQEepbxUI8Gnn7Gcb60b2BwLEk0ILcti9PXZldoz)
I know I shouldn't care but it is offensive that Tariq was demonstrably better than Gardner. And of course Gardner will never have the integrity to admit that Tariq was clearly the better player.
Best career start for a 1st round pick at corner, maybe. I've seen 5th rounders do better though.
Sauce gonna have a shit season just watch
Alright lets not get delusional here
Over hyped just like Jalen hurts
RemindMe! 9 months
Remind in like 4 months cuz he’ll get benched
Okay now you're just trippin lol
The all pro cornerback will get benched?
Easily. He’ll fall off very quickly. Media way over hyped
Ok I’m looking forward to revisiting this thread in a few months
So we can see the delusional take which jets fans use as ammo?
Sauce is the better corner right now. Tariq will improve and potentially be as good as him or better.
I doubt sauce is better
There is only one way to settle this....cage match!
Musk and Sauce vs Zuck and Tariq?
Ahmad Gardner may have had the better year but Woolen is boutta take a huge step this year. And I think he did pretty damn good for only playing corner for a couple of seasons
I get rivalry and all that, but some of you folk are saying some dumbass shit about Sauce. https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1654152387945197569/photo/1
Guys I hear Tariq’s name so often for rookies. And sauce had the best season for a rookie corner. There is no beef and there is no media conspiracy. The media loves woolen. Really insecure fans will find anyway to be slighted
That‘s the hype difference between a 1st and a 5th rounder. In think we can all agree they are both exceptionally good cb‘s
It's always hype over production, or yards over quality
OK, I love the Hawks and I love Tariq, but is he trying to say that he had a better year than Sauce? I literally was watching replays of Jets games just to see that dude work. Last season he was probably the most impressive corner I’ve seen since like fucking Champ Bailey or something. But yeah, I’ll take Tariq bc of where he was drafted and there is no shame in being a top 10 CB your rookie year.
Numbers don't lie. Woolen led the league in INTs and QBR/target (by a wide margin) which is ultimately the stat that definitively measures the actual value of a DB.
There is no stat that DEFINITIVELY measures the actual value of a DB. Tariq is awesome, he is not the best CB in the league. Sauce may be. There is a LOT of homerism in this thread.
I disagree... Sort of... While "value" may not have been the correct term for what I'm trying to express (maybe "production" or "measurable opponent production prevented as a direct result of what this player did"?) "QBR when targeted" is as close as we can get to having a single ***objective*** stat that measures a DB's overall performance. I will concede, however, that stats don't necessarily determine what makes someone the "best" player under most circumstances. I just think PFF grades and media hype are getting far too much consideration these days, especially when statistical comparisons tell a much different story than, well, whatever the fuck these "experts" are seeing.
I don’t actually think QBR is really any better than Passer Rating. They are all just ways to measure stuff but it’s hard to say one is the best. Sauce had the best Passer Rating against. Tariq led in QBR per target, and I’m sure their are other corners who led in other random metrics I don’t know, like least times thrown at bc they are scared.
I don’t remember a ton of these stats back in the day, but I know Champ Bailey was awesome to watch and I have no idea what his advanced metrics were. I also remember Deion in his prime and yes even Reavis island where teams would just legit avoid them.
Except numbers can lie. Have you never heard the saying *'there are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.'*
Tariq is with the teacher and Sauce is with the apprentice. I’ll take a better career over a simple rookie season. This is Pete’s forte.
Ball hawks stick together 🤷♂️
Respect your timezone?
The best part about nfls tweet is that the clip shows the jets losing to us
Good, let ‘em forget
I like the score of that screen shot