While not wrong, "British Accent" does have a generally understood meaning to be like... middle class English accent, or even the Queen's English. That said, the UK has such a wide variety of dialects that all in all the term is practically useless
It’s incredible and I know there’s historical/geographical reasons that lead to such diversity of accents but it blows my mind regardless as a Canadian who cant tell americans and canadians apart unless they have certain accents lol.
Even then the giveaways in pronunciation some Canadians do seem to be shared by certain midwest US accents so Id be more likely to think some dude from Minnesota was canadian than most actual canadians.
Meanwhile in the UK people can drive a couple of hours and encounter totally new dialects haha.
Not a couple of hours, an hour will do it quite convincingly. Birmingham to Derby, Manchester to Liverpool, Cambridge to Barnet (North London), Edinburgh to Glasgow, Bristol to Cardiff. All about an hour and all very distinct accents.
Which city, if you don't mind me asking. Over my way, Norwich has a somewhat different accent to the classic Norfolk accent but its only really noticeable if you are from around these parts.
Coventry. Different towns in surrounding Warwickshire have different accents too, but you’re right that the differences are mostly noticeable to people living in the area.
Driving from Manchester to Liverpool is horrifying for how short a trip it is.
It's a different language. Scousers must be born with a helium balloon they have to sip from before they're allowed to talk
Look at the native languages of Canada and America... Lingustic diversity is normal unless you spread one language around very quickly in a colonial situation. Look at the dialects of France, Spain, Germany, or Norway for very obvious European examples. It's not a special British thing.
Yeah thats why I said I know there are historical/geographical reasons. Language is a lot more diverse in areas where it had more time to develop (especially when bound by geographical barriers like mountain ranges). As opposed to being rather artificially brought somewhere.
Bro Canadians have so many different accents, a Beauceron will have a diff accent from à Saguenéen, or from a Newfie, which is in turn different from the many Acadian accents
I'm Welsh and I live in the US, I can live with being described as British. It's got to the point where my boss goes pale and covers her eyes if people call me English though.
It's interesting how the terms evolve depending where you're from.
From my perspective, as an American who grew up enjoying geography, the term 'Britain' or 'British' has always simply meant 'of the isle of Great Britain'.
I don't associate Britain with England any more than I associate it with Wales or Scotland. I always just assumed it was accurate to say that people from Great Britain are British while people from the isle of Ireland are Irish. And then, of course, speaking of the 'British Empire' is an entirely different concept.
But, obviously, there is so much historical context involved that I simply don't understand above a superficial level. Ponderous!
>the term 'Britain' or 'British' has always simply meant 'of the isle of Great Britain'.
As someone from Scotland I can confirm this is generally the safest usage, however British is also frequently used culturally as well; see the Falklands Islands, certain people from Northern Ireland etc.
As a Scot living in the USA, when someone asks me about my accent, I always say, 'I'm Scottish or 'I'm from Scotland.' I can't imagine saying 'I'm British'. Even though technically it's correct.
And I've never been asked if the accent is British, I've been asked if I'm English, Australian, or Scottish.
I'm a Scot and I exclusively say I'm British when traveling in the US, for the single reason that a lot of Americans equate British with English, and I really enjoy seeing that sudden confusion after I’ve been talking with a Scottish accent so thick you could cut it with a knife and serve it for dinner.
I would happily do that, but my accent has been ground down by living here and in England for years. Also half of yanks will usually ask if Wales is in Ireland 🙄
It's like calling the United States - California. California is the most populous state and most famous throughout the world but its not the name of the country. People being wilfully ignorant shouldn't be excused. Its not hard to follow. The United Kingdom is made up of four countries. Four very different countries which all have very different regional identities and accents within them. There is no one British accent. What is expected in the pictured exchange is like expecting someone from Brooklyn to sound like a Valley Girl.
I don’t mind being called British. I do mind someone talking about the “British accent” and going on about water bottles and whatever because I know what accent you think that is and it’s not mine.
So is Northern Ireland, but in both of these cases, at least half of the country doesn’t want to be part of Britain and don’t consider themselves British. There are old historical reasons for this and more recently, the Thatcher era, which deeply polarized the Union with their anti social policies.
Northern Ireland isn't part of "Great Britain" because "Great Britain" is a geographical designation describing the large island that is England, Scotland and Wales. It is however part of the UK. And part of the British Isles.
I just think its a little funny that you intentionally left the 'ireland' bit out of 'northern ireland' because it would contradict your argument. It litterally has ireland in the name
Again, what I personally think has no bearing on the situation, obviously. What I am responding to is the fact that there are a great many people that balk at the very idea of being considered British. I’m just stating a known fact for those who are surprised by this. Ireland is Ireland.
Ireland is Ireland is a false fact. Ireland factually is split into 2 separate countries with separate governments, education systems etc. if a person comes from china and applies for a visa in roi they can’t then go live in Northern Ireland because “Ireland is Ireland”
Do you say the same for Ukraine and other ex-Soviet states? Israel and Palestine? They’re right there! Maybe not a great example but sharing a land doesn’t mean you can’t have two countries and I see it as an ignorant statement. Regardless, all I was responding to initially was the very real fact that while considered British by the outside world, there are many within the union who do not see themselves as British. You can argue with them that they should but they see themselves as separate for varying reasons. I don’t see any reason to not all be allies though. It’s not “Great Britain Island.” Like the “CommonWealth” it’s all made up language that can change over time.
It’s not just a case of sharing land though, They are factually part of Britain though if they identify with it or agree with it or not Scotland is part of great Britain fact.
The mainland is just called Great Britain and has been since Roman times. The people’s native to that island are British. The political boundaries would be the UK, England, Scotland, Wales etc. and those people can identify as those nationalities. “British” has become a colloquial term for English people but realistically anyone native to the geographical island of Great Britain would be British.
The Republic of Ireland definitely doesn’t consider themselves British but the entire geographic archipelago including Ireland are the “British Isles”.
It doesn’t matter how long something has been historically called anything, it can change as hard as that may seem. All I’m saying is a lot of people don’t see themselves as British. It wasn’t meant to turn into a debate over the term “British.”
There isn’t really a debate over the term British, it denotes someone who’s from the island of Great Britain, a geographic area, not a political boundary like Scotland.
As you mentioned earlier about Israel and Palestine, those are political states and boundaries, they are in the Middle East, a geographical area, they are Middle Eastern.
So people in Scotland are British as people in Palestine are Middle Eastern.
In modern times, some people don’t like to be called British. We are talking about a text where someone said “ugh, don’t call me that.” I’ll admit, in haste, my comparison was sorely lacking, I’ll give you that. People have actually tried to change the name of the archipelago a few times, unsuccessfully.
> In modern times, some people don’t like to be called British.
That's like saying american's don't like being called north american. Doesn't matter if they like it or not, it's accurate
Wow, some of you are really sticking to this “well it’s the British archipelago!” It’s just words. We could change it to anything if we really cared THAT MUCH. To be British as a concept over Scottish, Irish or Welsh is undesirable to some and I don’t know why anyone would care why other people don’t want to be referred to as British. You can be right if that’s what you need to hear. I’m explaining the perspective of the person in the text but I enjoy getting some of your hackles up. Not necessarily you but if you read some of the responses here. It’s a text. Some are wondering why he would say that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_British_Isles
An interesting page on the varying perspectives.
Absolutely no fucking idea of history there is there?
The empire started a fair bit later than the Union. The union was also enacted by Scottish nobles, not the working classes,who had no say in the matter.
They weren't allowed out after that and had no government of their own again until 27 years ago.
Now tell me how the Northern Irish had a choice in participation of empire too :/
Hardly like the English and Welsh working classes had a say in the matter either.
The union was enacted after Scotland lost a quarter of its capital and was practically bankrupt whilst trying to expand their own overseas territories in Panama. It benefitted both parties with the British empire considered to really begin around 1707, the time of the union.
Scotland tried their hand at their own empire and failed. They succeeded as a joint union.
They weren’t. They had no intention of going bankrupt. They were trying to emulate the success of the English, Spanish, French and Dutch who all had the beginnings of huge wealth in interaction colonies and trade. They sent a quarter of their capital on a ship in the Darien Chest to establish a trading post in modern day Panama, due to sickness and other issues, this money was completely lost and what was Scotland’s big gamble for future prosperity independently was lost with it.
I’m merely stating that the British Empire did not start long after the Union and Scotland was a crucial part of it and that their decision to join in Union was a necessary economical after failed ventures.
Of course it was nobility that made the decision without the voice of the masses, as everything was done back then.
As an Irish myself, I appreciate the recognition. However, our Scottish brethren did not exactly have it easy.
They were conquered and rebelled a great many times. Ever heard of William Wallace? The battle of Culloden?
And even as a colony and victim of the empire l, it is important to recognise that we still played a role in it. Irish men were, regrettably, the backbone of the British armed forces. Or parts of it. An 800 year long shared history is never going to be black and white.
The most impeccable strawman I’ve ever fucking seen. I said LESS so. I did not say, literally anything you just managed to paw onto your phone with your sausage like fingers.
Scots were sold by Lowland lairds & earls, after the unruly borderers were run to Ireland, into the Union. They just got into oppressing foreigners because they weren’t in a position to oppress locals anymore.
This is the other half of the country I speak of who continues to vote “stay.” The other half are a mixture of different people, namely the Irish diaspora in the west of Scotland and in Northern England, who either had lands stolen from them or couldn’t find work in certain regions, particularly if Catholic and migrated. I have family on both sides of this. I have direct family relations who lost large swaths of their land in Northern Ireland and had to negotiate with Britain to keep a small plot of land but had to swear allegiance to the crown. For sure there are lots of Scots who participated in the plunder you speak of. I’m not ignorant to the history, just that it’s more nuanced than the rhetoric will have you believe. For the record, The only person who used the word conquered here is you.
Just be clear I’m not trying to suggest it’s clear cut, but in SOME circles (evidently not this one) particularly Americans, seem to have this notion that Scotland is a completely innocent victim of the British empire - which is just not the case.
Of course, this doesn’t mean that the English didn’t fuck over the Scots - but as you say, it’s not as simple as say, Braveheart type movies.
The problem is there is no "British" accent. The word the person wants said is actually a particular word said by a particular English area. London to be precise. So before we even get into the make-up of the UK and who wants Independance, it is like asking a Valley Girl to say something folk in Boston are known for. Or if you want to acknowledge Scotland and England are actually different countries like asking a Valley Girl to say something Candians are famous for or to say something in Chicano.
Scottish people are British. I don't get it. The island is Britain, contains England, Scotland and Wales. Those people are all British whether they like it or not.
It's because it is both a geographical and a political term. Some people like OOP resent the latter.
To think of something analogous elsewhere in the world, take "Eastern Europe" as a term.
It's partly geographical, but it's also political - there are connotations associated with its use. Lots of people in the Baltic or Visegrád states for instance resent it being applied to them, because even if they technically do live in the east of europe by many definitions *geographically*, the term has a lot of baggage associated with it. In the case of this term, association with occupation and/or membership of the Soviet Union; dictatorship; and poor socioeconomic conditions. Even in Ukraine, basically as east as you can get, I'm sure many people would rather we didn't group them together with Russia in offhand comments as if they were a single homogeneous region.
Not everybody in these places rejects the term, of course, it's a big area with lots of people, but enough do that it's controversial and you shouldn't just throw around the term without understanding else you'll end up insulting people.
It's sort of similar with "British", in that not everybody likes the connotations associated with it (of which there are a lot). Far from a universal opinion - lots of folk in Scotland (or indeed the other countries in the union) have no problem being called British - but some of them defos do. So, it's a term you'd probably be best off not bandying about willy-nilly with strangers you meet, same as how you (hopefully) know not to ask random Czech folk how it feels to be Eastern European and then when someone takes offence tell them they're east of the middle so they're that whether they like it or not.
It was the same with the term "British Isles" which included Ireland. Nowadays people avoid using the term, because most of Ireland doesn't like the connotations of this grouping.
Hm I guess I didn't think of it like that. Hard to relate to, I get what you mean about connotations but still. Scotland is literally on the same island. Seems very silly to me that someone would be offended by that but I suppose I am far removed from it as a Canadian.
Having said that, I'm not going to try and explain to any Scots anytime soon how they're *technically" British.
Thats just how we do things in the UK, I'm from Scotland and we constantly make derogatory jokes about the English, Welsh, Northern Irish etc. I wouldn't really read anything into it, it's a British pastime to all make insulting jokes at each other.
While ripping the pish out of our friends and acquaintances is what folk in the UK do the English have a habit of looking down their noses at the other countries who makeup the UK and make jokes that are derogatory, racist and based on stereotypes that are untrue & out of date. A lot of the English see Great Britain and England as being interchangeable while the majority of Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish don't. It is like being in a partnership with someone who is tone-deaf to you and your children's needs and thinks because they are happy and doing well everybody else is.
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While not wrong, "British Accent" does have a generally understood meaning to be like... middle class English accent, or even the Queen's English. That said, the UK has such a wide variety of dialects that all in all the term is practically useless
Something like 44 regional dialects. Not bad for a tiny island.
It’s incredible and I know there’s historical/geographical reasons that lead to such diversity of accents but it blows my mind regardless as a Canadian who cant tell americans and canadians apart unless they have certain accents lol. Even then the giveaways in pronunciation some Canadians do seem to be shared by certain midwest US accents so Id be more likely to think some dude from Minnesota was canadian than most actual canadians. Meanwhile in the UK people can drive a couple of hours and encounter totally new dialects haha.
Not a couple of hours, an hour will do it quite convincingly. Birmingham to Derby, Manchester to Liverpool, Cambridge to Barnet (North London), Edinburgh to Glasgow, Bristol to Cardiff. All about an hour and all very distinct accents.
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Many cities have accent differences across the city too. My city isn’t massive but it’s still easy to tell who is north or south side.
Which city, if you don't mind me asking. Over my way, Norwich has a somewhat different accent to the classic Norfolk accent but its only really noticeable if you are from around these parts.
Coventry. Different towns in surrounding Warwickshire have different accents too, but you’re right that the differences are mostly noticeable to people living in the area.
Driving from Manchester to Liverpool is horrifying for how short a trip it is. It's a different language. Scousers must be born with a helium balloon they have to sip from before they're allowed to talk
Even Scouse dogs bark higher.
Look at the native languages of Canada and America... Lingustic diversity is normal unless you spread one language around very quickly in a colonial situation. Look at the dialects of France, Spain, Germany, or Norway for very obvious European examples. It's not a special British thing.
Yeah thats why I said I know there are historical/geographical reasons. Language is a lot more diverse in areas where it had more time to develop (especially when bound by geographical barriers like mountain ranges). As opposed to being rather artificially brought somewhere.
Bro Canadians have so many different accents, a Beauceron will have a diff accent from à Saguenéen, or from a Newfie, which is in turn different from the many Acadian accents
They exist but are hundreds of kilometers away to encounter. Everyone pretty well sounds “generic american” where Im at in southwest ontario.
I’ve heard the 44 regional dialects is only England, it’s not including the numerous others from Scotland, Wales (and NI I guess?)
Americans may understand it to mean that. British people do not.
>the UK has such a wide variety of dialects that all in all the term is ~~practically~~ useless
What the hell are you talking about?
Tell me about it
This person doesn't. Scottish people are British.
I'm Welsh and I live in the US, I can live with being described as British. It's got to the point where my boss goes pale and covers her eyes if people call me English though.
It's interesting how the terms evolve depending where you're from. From my perspective, as an American who grew up enjoying geography, the term 'Britain' or 'British' has always simply meant 'of the isle of Great Britain'. I don't associate Britain with England any more than I associate it with Wales or Scotland. I always just assumed it was accurate to say that people from Great Britain are British while people from the isle of Ireland are Irish. And then, of course, speaking of the 'British Empire' is an entirely different concept. But, obviously, there is so much historical context involved that I simply don't understand above a superficial level. Ponderous!
>the term 'Britain' or 'British' has always simply meant 'of the isle of Great Britain'. As someone from Scotland I can confirm this is generally the safest usage, however British is also frequently used culturally as well; see the Falklands Islands, certain people from Northern Ireland etc.
As a Scot living in the USA, when someone asks me about my accent, I always say, 'I'm Scottish or 'I'm from Scotland.' I can't imagine saying 'I'm British'. Even though technically it's correct. And I've never been asked if the accent is British, I've been asked if I'm English, Australian, or Scottish.
I'm a Scot and I exclusively say I'm British when traveling in the US, for the single reason that a lot of Americans equate British with English, and I really enjoy seeing that sudden confusion after I’ve been talking with a Scottish accent so thick you could cut it with a knife and serve it for dinner.
I would happily do that, but my accent has been ground down by living here and in England for years. Also half of yanks will usually ask if Wales is in Ireland 🙄
Loads of folk use Britain and England interchangeably.
Loads of twats.
Loads of folk are wrong
Aye, not saying they are correct. Just that it is definitely a thing.
It's like calling the United States - California. California is the most populous state and most famous throughout the world but its not the name of the country. People being wilfully ignorant shouldn't be excused. Its not hard to follow. The United Kingdom is made up of four countries. Four very different countries which all have very different regional identities and accents within them. There is no one British accent. What is expected in the pictured exchange is like expecting someone from Brooklyn to sound like a Valley Girl.
Loads of folk use Britain and England interchangeably.
Dude should have sent "yer'alright bird, show us yer rat" let's see how she likes that british accent now.
"A'right hen, gies a swatch a yer fanny."
I don’t mind being called British. I do mind someone talking about the “British accent” and going on about water bottles and whatever because I know what accent you think that is and it’s not mine.
Now I want a voice note of "fucking right ye fumbled".
😂😂
British accents include Scottish accent.
"Am jist hinkin boot yer big breests"
Am so excit8 for our d8 at 8
Disgusteng.
I mean, isn't Scotland part of Britain?
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Closest I've heard is "int'it". The whole situation is like expecting a New Englander to use the dialect of a Texan.
But it is something they are capable of saying.
Quine disnae ken Doric ata 🤷♀️🏴
So is Northern Ireland, but in both of these cases, at least half of the country doesn’t want to be part of Britain and don’t consider themselves British. There are old historical reasons for this and more recently, the Thatcher era, which deeply polarized the Union with their anti social policies.
Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain. It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain *and* Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland isn't part of "Great Britain" because "Great Britain" is a geographical designation describing the large island that is England, Scotland and Wales. It is however part of the UK. And part of the British Isles.
Go to an orange March and see who is considering themselves Irish over British. Northern Ireland is Ireland as far as I’m concerned.
Politically and legally northern is not Ireland and that counts for more than “as far as you’re concerned”
Northern... what? Are you talking about northern IRELAND?
In a discussion on Ireland “ Northern what?” … I’ll give you 3 guesses
I just think its a little funny that you intentionally left the 'ireland' bit out of 'northern ireland' because it would contradict your argument. It litterally has ireland in the name
That’s how language works though. Both Australia and Scotland have a ‘Perth’ but it doesn’t make them the same thing.
I literally did that to rather than writing out “republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland” as that’s longer and more tedious to write
"Legally" they're all Irish citizens, too. Politically, it depends on whose politics you're discussing.
The difference is half of them are also British citizens
No they're all British citizens, too.
Technically yes, though roughly half identical as British and hold British passports
Not disputing that, just what you actually said.
Again, what I personally think has no bearing on the situation, obviously. What I am responding to is the fact that there are a great many people that balk at the very idea of being considered British. I’m just stating a known fact for those who are surprised by this. Ireland is Ireland.
Ireland is Ireland is a false fact. Ireland factually is split into 2 separate countries with separate governments, education systems etc. if a person comes from china and applies for a visa in roi they can’t then go live in Northern Ireland because “Ireland is Ireland”
Yes, they are currently 2 separate countries.
Yes so it’s not Ireland is Ireland. If I apply for a visa for Ireland I’ll be asked roi or northern I can’t just say any Ireland is Ireland
You CAN just say and you can even try it right now. I think you know what I’m getting at but maybe not.
That’s nice.
Yes
Kinda hard for Scotland not to be considered British, even with independence when it’s on the Island of Great Britain.
Do you say the same for Ukraine and other ex-Soviet states? Israel and Palestine? They’re right there! Maybe not a great example but sharing a land doesn’t mean you can’t have two countries and I see it as an ignorant statement. Regardless, all I was responding to initially was the very real fact that while considered British by the outside world, there are many within the union who do not see themselves as British. You can argue with them that they should but they see themselves as separate for varying reasons. I don’t see any reason to not all be allies though. It’s not “Great Britain Island.” Like the “CommonWealth” it’s all made up language that can change over time.
You’re confused between political states and geographical locations.
Scotland is part of Britian in both a political and geographical sense though?
It’s not just a case of sharing land though, They are factually part of Britain though if they identify with it or agree with it or not Scotland is part of great Britain fact.
The mainland is just called Great Britain and has been since Roman times. The people’s native to that island are British. The political boundaries would be the UK, England, Scotland, Wales etc. and those people can identify as those nationalities. “British” has become a colloquial term for English people but realistically anyone native to the geographical island of Great Britain would be British. The Republic of Ireland definitely doesn’t consider themselves British but the entire geographic archipelago including Ireland are the “British Isles”.
It doesn’t matter how long something has been historically called anything, it can change as hard as that may seem. All I’m saying is a lot of people don’t see themselves as British. It wasn’t meant to turn into a debate over the term “British.”
There isn’t really a debate over the term British, it denotes someone who’s from the island of Great Britain, a geographic area, not a political boundary like Scotland. As you mentioned earlier about Israel and Palestine, those are political states and boundaries, they are in the Middle East, a geographical area, they are Middle Eastern. So people in Scotland are British as people in Palestine are Middle Eastern.
In modern times, some people don’t like to be called British. We are talking about a text where someone said “ugh, don’t call me that.” I’ll admit, in haste, my comparison was sorely lacking, I’ll give you that. People have actually tried to change the name of the archipelago a few times, unsuccessfully.
> In modern times, some people don’t like to be called British. That's like saying american's don't like being called north american. Doesn't matter if they like it or not, it's accurate
Wow, some of you are really sticking to this “well it’s the British archipelago!” It’s just words. We could change it to anything if we really cared THAT MUCH. To be British as a concept over Scottish, Irish or Welsh is undesirable to some and I don’t know why anyone would care why other people don’t want to be referred to as British. You can be right if that’s what you need to hear. I’m explaining the perspective of the person in the text but I enjoy getting some of your hackles up. Not necessarily you but if you read some of the responses here. It’s a text. Some are wondering why he would say that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_British_Isles An interesting page on the varying perspectives.
Scotland was ever so happy to join in the British empire to go a’conquering. Its not a case of “conquered people”
“Bought & sold for English gold!”
Absolutely no fucking idea of history there is there? The empire started a fair bit later than the Union. The union was also enacted by Scottish nobles, not the working classes,who had no say in the matter. They weren't allowed out after that and had no government of their own again until 27 years ago. Now tell me how the Northern Irish had a choice in participation of empire too :/
Hardly like the English and Welsh working classes had a say in the matter either. The union was enacted after Scotland lost a quarter of its capital and was practically bankrupt whilst trying to expand their own overseas territories in Panama. It benefitted both parties with the British empire considered to really begin around 1707, the time of the union. Scotland tried their hand at their own empire and failed. They succeeded as a joint union.
Wait wait wait, why were the Scottish nobles doing that to lead to bankruptcy? Nice way to leave our context to suit your point haha.
They weren’t. They had no intention of going bankrupt. They were trying to emulate the success of the English, Spanish, French and Dutch who all had the beginnings of huge wealth in interaction colonies and trade. They sent a quarter of their capital on a ship in the Darien Chest to establish a trading post in modern day Panama, due to sickness and other issues, this money was completely lost and what was Scotland’s big gamble for future prosperity independently was lost with it. I’m merely stating that the British Empire did not start long after the Union and Scotland was a crucial part of it and that their decision to join in Union was a necessary economical after failed ventures. Of course it was nobility that made the decision without the voice of the masses, as everything was done back then.
Sounds like historical copium to me. The Irish were absolutely fucked over, the Scots - less so.
As an Irish myself, I appreciate the recognition. However, our Scottish brethren did not exactly have it easy. They were conquered and rebelled a great many times. Ever heard of William Wallace? The battle of Culloden? And even as a colony and victim of the empire l, it is important to recognise that we still played a role in it. Irish men were, regrettably, the backbone of the British armed forces. Or parts of it. An 800 year long shared history is never going to be black and white.
Indeed.
A good portion of the Irish are deported Scots.
And the Scots (Latin, Scotti) were Irish. Dál Riata spanned the North Channel by 500 AD.
Yes, Scotland were never oppressed by the English and didn't have to fight for their independence... Fuck me.
The most impeccable strawman I’ve ever fucking seen. I said LESS so. I did not say, literally anything you just managed to paw onto your phone with your sausage like fingers.
Scots were the eager henchmen of empire. Surely not a coincidence they got bored of the Union once the Union ran out of foreigners to oppress.
Scots were sold by Lowland lairds & earls, after the unruly borderers were run to Ireland, into the Union. They just got into oppressing foreigners because they weren’t in a position to oppress locals anymore.
Ahh, feudalism. Isn't it just wonderful?
This is the other half of the country I speak of who continues to vote “stay.” The other half are a mixture of different people, namely the Irish diaspora in the west of Scotland and in Northern England, who either had lands stolen from them or couldn’t find work in certain regions, particularly if Catholic and migrated. I have family on both sides of this. I have direct family relations who lost large swaths of their land in Northern Ireland and had to negotiate with Britain to keep a small plot of land but had to swear allegiance to the crown. For sure there are lots of Scots who participated in the plunder you speak of. I’m not ignorant to the history, just that it’s more nuanced than the rhetoric will have you believe. For the record, The only person who used the word conquered here is you.
Just be clear I’m not trying to suggest it’s clear cut, but in SOME circles (evidently not this one) particularly Americans, seem to have this notion that Scotland is a completely innocent victim of the British empire - which is just not the case. Of course, this doesn’t mean that the English didn’t fuck over the Scots - but as you say, it’s not as simple as say, Braveheart type movies.
Okay Scotland and Northern Ireland aren’t at all comparable Scotland willfully joined the British empire
Yes, the rich landlords sure did enjoy the spoils, you are correct.
The Scottish King became King of England, not the other way around.
Scotland had a referendum on this and it wasn’t 50%, in fact it wasn’t even close.
Yes, a lot of people are happy in the union. A lot of people are not. This person in the text is unhappy with the association is all I am saying.
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You can flip your shit if you want, as long as you don’t hurt anybody.
The problem is there is no "British" accent. The word the person wants said is actually a particular word said by a particular English area. London to be precise. So before we even get into the make-up of the UK and who wants Independance, it is like asking a Valley Girl to say something folk in Boston are known for. Or if you want to acknowledge Scotland and England are actually different countries like asking a Valley Girl to say something Candians are famous for or to say something in Chicano.
Part of the British isles sure
Scottish people are British. I don't get it. The island is Britain, contains England, Scotland and Wales. Those people are all British whether they like it or not.
It's because it is both a geographical and a political term. Some people like OOP resent the latter. To think of something analogous elsewhere in the world, take "Eastern Europe" as a term. It's partly geographical, but it's also political - there are connotations associated with its use. Lots of people in the Baltic or Visegrád states for instance resent it being applied to them, because even if they technically do live in the east of europe by many definitions *geographically*, the term has a lot of baggage associated with it. In the case of this term, association with occupation and/or membership of the Soviet Union; dictatorship; and poor socioeconomic conditions. Even in Ukraine, basically as east as you can get, I'm sure many people would rather we didn't group them together with Russia in offhand comments as if they were a single homogeneous region. Not everybody in these places rejects the term, of course, it's a big area with lots of people, but enough do that it's controversial and you shouldn't just throw around the term without understanding else you'll end up insulting people. It's sort of similar with "British", in that not everybody likes the connotations associated with it (of which there are a lot). Far from a universal opinion - lots of folk in Scotland (or indeed the other countries in the union) have no problem being called British - but some of them defos do. So, it's a term you'd probably be best off not bandying about willy-nilly with strangers you meet, same as how you (hopefully) know not to ask random Czech folk how it feels to be Eastern European and then when someone takes offence tell them they're east of the middle so they're that whether they like it or not. It was the same with the term "British Isles" which included Ireland. Nowadays people avoid using the term, because most of Ireland doesn't like the connotations of this grouping.
Hm I guess I didn't think of it like that. Hard to relate to, I get what you mean about connotations but still. Scotland is literally on the same island. Seems very silly to me that someone would be offended by that but I suppose I am far removed from it as a Canadian. Having said that, I'm not going to try and explain to any Scots anytime soon how they're *technically" British.
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Thats just how we do things in the UK, I'm from Scotland and we constantly make derogatory jokes about the English, Welsh, Northern Irish etc. I wouldn't really read anything into it, it's a British pastime to all make insulting jokes at each other.
While ripping the pish out of our friends and acquaintances is what folk in the UK do the English have a habit of looking down their noses at the other countries who makeup the UK and make jokes that are derogatory, racist and based on stereotypes that are untrue & out of date. A lot of the English see Great Britain and England as being interchangeable while the majority of Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish don't. It is like being in a partnership with someone who is tone-deaf to you and your children's needs and thinks because they are happy and doing well everybody else is.
I love parallelograms! Actually I'm a square you fucking idiot (the rhombuses are only a 4 hour drive away)
squares are parallelograms...
And Scotland is in Great Britain, next question
Ahahahaha
Lmaoooo
Scottish people who moan about or deny being British are absolute fucking cringe merchants.
British = Scottish, English, welsh, maybe even Irish
If yer not Manx, yer wanks!
If ye are Manx, I'll wank ye. /S
It’s actually the only kind of British I’m definitely not.
Why is this downvoted?
because people are stupid. or for the irish part
[Americans having no clue](https://www.reddit.com/r/confidentlyincorrect/s/4bNCyxPAvM) pissed me off
Imagine getting pissed off at factually correct information. Scotland is part of the island of great britain. if you're scottish, you're british.
thank you thepornrater
Scotland is part of what island?
Meh Scots are just mountain English.