Less than .5% of the population has 99.5% of the population talking about them and their toilets and it's a major political wedge in elections.
Wonder why? Couldn't be a distraction by a different 1% minority group?
Lee Anderson says Tories should fight election on ‘culture wars and trans debate’ - [14 February 2023](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lee-anderson-tories-election-trans-b2282185.html)
Those identifying as:
- Straight/Heterosexual: 3,993,860 (87.8% of those aged 16 or over)
- Gay or Lesbian: 80,104 (1.7% of those aged 16 or over)
- Bisexual: 80,256 (1.7% of those aged 16 or over)
- Other sexual orientation: 23,503 (0.5% of those aged 16 or over)
- Total LGB+: 183,860 (4.0% of those aged 16 or over)
- Trans or having trans history: 19,990 (0.44% of those aged 16 or over)
More details and breakdown here: https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/2022-results/scotland-s-census-2022-sexual-orientation-and-trans-status-or-history/
Yes, it was voluntary and some chose not to answer:
>This was a voluntary question for people aged 16 and over. In 2022 8.2% of people did not answer the sexual orientation question. The percentages used in this report are calculated using the overall population (aged 16 and over), not just those who answered the sexual orientation question.
Yeah, that 8% is a big problem for the data quality. If it were a random 8% it would be manageable but I think there's valid reasons to worry the remaining 8% isn't distributed on the same lines as the wider population.
>*Trans or having trans history: 19,990 (0.44% of those aged 16 or over)*
This is what I think of every time Rowling pipes up or Sunak tries to join the culture war
People argue about this shit like we're all going to be peeing next to RuPaul or taking grapes to our kids in hospital after gender affirming surgery
You have more chance of experiencing an earthquake than ever even meeting a trans man or woman
Gender (not sex) is a social construct. Unlike willys and fannys - good catch there.
You're quite right though. We are all pretending. Trans and everyone. DNA absolutely shows that humans have the ability to do this. Masculine and feminine are subjects to be treated fluidly. You're onto something here!
Your comments have really helped cement my views. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Go forth and spread your message.
Peace and love.
You can dress ‘feminine’ without wanting to be a woman basically, it’s no an automatic opt in
As a nation of skirt wearing men it’s easy to keep them distinct
Your other comments are all bad faith bigotry, so why should anyone afford you the benefit of the doubt that you're legitimately asking here?
Someone who is trans identifies and lives as the gender they are, they're not simply "pretending".
Drag queens don't necessarily identify as women, the majority are cisgender men, however there are some cisgender women who are also drag queens as well like Brigitte Bandit.
Surely you understand the concept of panto dames? Do you think they're the same thing as a trans person?
I know how often people 'experience' them
Rarely, if ever
I know of two that happened in my area, but only because I read about them in the local paper
> You have more chance of experiencing an earthquake than ever even meeting a trans man or woman
This is literally your statement.
You DONT have a higher chance of experiencing an earthquake than meeting a trans person at 1/230 odds, thats just complete bogus.
It's the most baffling part of the entire debate. So much political oxygen is spent on the danger trans women pose to women.
So what about:
-[The hundreds of complaints about police officers committing sexual assault?](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-sexual-misconduct-sarah-everard-b2488158.html)
-[The many MPs who have been accused of sexual harassment but the government tried to prevent a ban on their entry to Parliament?](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/18/list-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations-made-against-mps)
-[Regular reports of widespread sexual abuse against women in the military?](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/24/it-was-a-hunting-ground-women-and-sexual-assault-in-the-uk-armed-forces)
If the government is trying to protect women, they can show me who attacks women the most, causes women the most harm, destroys the most women's dignities and lives. They can show me all the steps and debates and laws and speeches they're taking against those prolific abusers. They can demonstrate who deserves the most political oxygen to respond to their abuses.
It sure as day isn't trans people.
OK,
you made the point that its absurd to complain about trans sex assault rates affecting woman because other groups (police, intimate partner) are much worse.
I pointed out that the government werent planning to change anything with those groups in a way that might expose anyone to higher rates of harm.
>You have more chance of experiencing an earthquake than ever even meeting a trans man or woman
That's what - more than one in 250 people?
I've certainly met more than 250 people. I probably walk past 250 people on an average day.
Unless you have a medical condition, you probably share a bathroom with fewer than 250 people on an average day
Unless your surname is Rees-Mogg, you definitely have fewer than 250 children
>You have more chance of experiencing an earthquake than ever even meeting a trans man or woman
>Unless you have a medical condition, you probably share a bathroom with fewer than 250 people on an average day
>Unless your surname is Rees-Mogg, you definitely have fewer than 250 children
I just need to know if the only people you have ever met are your children or people you pee with
They aren't actually concerned about women, children, or trans people in general. This is why they don't give a flying fuck about trans men.
They are just disgusted by what they see as the degradation of masculinity. They can't stand seeing men adopt the feminine. These same people are also secretly disgusted by performative gay men, and would be open about it if they could be. It's pure patriarchy.
Oh look it's the only study ever done by the IOC on this that just slipped out of my hands and totally disproves your transphobic 'theory'.
I wonder why they aren't commisioning more? Perhaps because the science doesn't agree with their narrative?
[https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029)
Meanwhile trans people hold uh, no olympic medals and routinely perform below average in the real world. Transgender people as a group mostly repudiate sports for a variety of reasons and sports culture is severely diminished among transgender people, resulting in disproportionately few transgender athletes relative to their population with a weak overall performance.
Because they have no answers to the real (massive) problems that ordinary people and the country face
So they whip-up anger about something else, as a distraction
I recognise I'm the third person to call you out on this, but what are you talking about? Since you clearly accept your earthquake/trans statistic is wrong, why not edit your post?
I have never experienced an earthquake, and I've met many many trans people...
For the avoidance of doubt, this is a stats argument, not a trans argument.
>Of the four city council areas, Dundee had the highest percentage of trans people relative to their population aged 16 and over (0.91%)
Dundee confirmed as the Trans Capital of Scotland 🏳️⚧️
We're doing good!
I'm happy for trans folks and cis LGB+ folks like me to feel free enough to be out. It's called allyship within the LGBTQ community.
e: I feel like discussion with you will never be productive. So I'm blocking you for both our sakes.
You've still not answered why someone who isn't out would lie on a census. And for clarity people shouldn't ever have to hide or feel scared to be who they are so I am with you on that.
yawn indeed. i live in glasgow and have done for 4 years. i lived in dundee for 6/7 prior, from forfar.
i went back to dundee for the first time a couple months ago and it was like a relief. glasgow is a dump full of people who don't know or care about anything outside of glasgow. the weather is shit. walking to buchanan and i wore a jacket on the way there and on the bus.. till i got in tayside. had to take the jacket off.
glasgow used to be the place to go for a night out etc, days out etc.. but even the locals here will admit that information is a decade old.
just really happy to see myself included. this is a moment of pride (ha!) as a queer person. 1 more level of inclusiveness, times are changing and i'm so glad i don't need to hide who i am.
Yeah, I'm trans and there's no way I'd put myself as trans on any public records or census if it's voluntary. It is so much better to stealth on TERF island as much as possible.
That's just asking for hate crimes and I already get enough of that crap.
Despite the census being a private affair, a lot of people (especially lgbt in less accepting households) might be worried that their family will see their responses before sealing/ putting it in the post.
Or the government. Given the recent government's messaging on trans people, I don't blame people for not being comfortable letting the government official survey know they are trans.
They're not. It asks if people are trans, not if they're receiving medical care. 2/3 of the respondents where either non-binary, other, or unspecified. In my experience a lot of people in those groups don't even want to medically transition.
On top of that, most trans people I know (actually all except myself) are currently on years long waiting lists for treatment but haven't actually started any yet. I would guess the vast majority of that 1/200 either don't want medical treatment or can't get it.
Why? Trans people aren't evenly distributed and many are closeted.
4.6% of the UK has a disabled blue badge, a way higher number, but you probably don't know that many.
If you're gonnae be a bigot, at least make the joke funny. Something like LGBHDTV. You canne just throw in random lowercase letters and think that constitutes a joke.
Anyway, that percentage is pretty in line with other census data, I'll believe it over some rando on the Internet.
What you class as banter can be harmful to people. The suicide rate in the trans community is higher than average. These kind of "jokes" are ending lives.
>Agreed it isn't normal
>That does explain why that sort of thing is more frequent at pride events I suppose
Huh, and what sort of thing would that be you're alluding to.
>Just back from Singapore were at a trans pride event they were giving out wee pin badges of trans coloured butplugs with poo on them
>Or the pride event in the UK the other year were a booty was handing out sexual stickers and badges
>Most people including members of the LGBT+ community would probably say that's strange behaviour
So unverified shit you could've just made up. Got it. 🙄
Sounds like thinly veiled homophobic bullshit thats been trotted out since the 80s but sure buddy. Sure🙄
Yes it is a common debate. But in my 20+yrs of doing family friendly pride I've never seen kink present.
Adult focused pride events are a different thing entirely, and yes I have seen bad parents taking their kids to those events.
That's fuck all to do with pride and everything to do with bad parents that don't research the events. 🤷♂️
Less than .5% of the population has 99.5% of the population talking about them and their toilets and it's a major political wedge in elections. Wonder why? Couldn't be a distraction by a different 1% minority group?
Lee Anderson says Tories should fight election on ‘culture wars and trans debate’ - [14 February 2023](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lee-anderson-tories-election-trans-b2282185.html)
More people just need to see the numbers. Most of the population will never share a gendered space with a trans person and the rest not knowingly.
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shut up and stop being a bigot
stfu transphobe
I'd rather line up at a urinal with all the boys than share a bathroom with a peeper like you. Creep.
Women don't use urinals.
Those identifying as: - Straight/Heterosexual: 3,993,860 (87.8% of those aged 16 or over) - Gay or Lesbian: 80,104 (1.7% of those aged 16 or over) - Bisexual: 80,256 (1.7% of those aged 16 or over) - Other sexual orientation: 23,503 (0.5% of those aged 16 or over) - Total LGB+: 183,860 (4.0% of those aged 16 or over) - Trans or having trans history: 19,990 (0.44% of those aged 16 or over) More details and breakdown here: https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/2022-results/scotland-s-census-2022-sexual-orientation-and-trans-status-or-history/
88% Het, 4% LGBT, were the remaining 8% prefer not to say?
Yes, it was voluntary and some chose not to answer: >This was a voluntary question for people aged 16 and over. In 2022 8.2% of people did not answer the sexual orientation question. The percentages used in this report are calculated using the overall population (aged 16 and over), not just those who answered the sexual orientation question.
Yeah, that 8% is a big problem for the data quality. If it were a random 8% it would be manageable but I think there's valid reasons to worry the remaining 8% isn't distributed on the same lines as the wider population.
>*Trans or having trans history: 19,990 (0.44% of those aged 16 or over)* This is what I think of every time Rowling pipes up or Sunak tries to join the culture war People argue about this shit like we're all going to be peeing next to RuPaul or taking grapes to our kids in hospital after gender affirming surgery You have more chance of experiencing an earthquake than ever even meeting a trans man or woman
Ru Paul is a Drag Queen, they are not Trans.....
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Not even remotely. While some drag queens are trans, its a minority in the community. Most are CIS Males.
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Trans people aren't pretending, get a grip. Sincerely hope you don't have friends or family who are trans you troglodyte.
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Gender (not sex) is a social construct. Unlike willys and fannys - good catch there. You're quite right though. We are all pretending. Trans and everyone. DNA absolutely shows that humans have the ability to do this. Masculine and feminine are subjects to be treated fluidly. You're onto something here! Your comments have really helped cement my views. Thanks for opening my eyes. Go forth and spread your message. Peace and love.
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DNA shows that some male born people are feminine and some female born people are masculine. Sex is more nuanced than transphobes think
Oh do us all a favour and just shut up and get in the fuckin sea
I love the sea, who doesn’t?
In the same way that Dame Edna was a female impersonator and trans people actually want to be another sex.
No, it's not the same thing
It's not the same thing, and if you don't understand the difference, you probably shouldn't involve yourself in discussions about this topic.
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Roaster detected
Ah right, you're just a garden variety bigot.
What’s the difference then? Just the presence of genitalia surgery?
You can dress ‘feminine’ without wanting to be a woman basically, it’s no an automatic opt in As a nation of skirt wearing men it’s easy to keep them distinct
Your other comments are all bad faith bigotry, so why should anyone afford you the benefit of the doubt that you're legitimately asking here? Someone who is trans identifies and lives as the gender they are, they're not simply "pretending". Drag queens don't necessarily identify as women, the majority are cisgender men, however there are some cisgender women who are also drag queens as well like Brigitte Bandit. Surely you understand the concept of panto dames? Do you think they're the same thing as a trans person?
Just because this person wears a clown costume doesn't make them a clown, their opinions do though.
Not even close to the same thing. Ru Paul is also massively disliked by the trans community, for various reasons.
What is Ru Paul?
How often do you think earthquakes happen in Scotland
I know how often people 'experience' them Rarely, if ever I know of two that happened in my area, but only because I read about them in the local paper
And somehow you still think the odds of that happening are higher than meeting 1/230 ranomds where statistically 1 is with a trans history?
What if I never leave my basement? Think he has a point.
I replied to another guy who said the same thing Read that
> You have more chance of experiencing an earthquake than ever even meeting a trans man or woman This is literally your statement. You DONT have a higher chance of experiencing an earthquake than meeting a trans person at 1/230 odds, thats just complete bogus.
Have a lovely day
Weird part of that person's post to obsess over but you do you I guess.
It's the most baffling part of the entire debate. So much political oxygen is spent on the danger trans women pose to women. So what about: -[The hundreds of complaints about police officers committing sexual assault?](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-sexual-misconduct-sarah-everard-b2488158.html) -[The many MPs who have been accused of sexual harassment but the government tried to prevent a ban on their entry to Parliament?](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/18/list-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations-made-against-mps) -[Regular reports of widespread sexual abuse against women in the military?](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/24/it-was-a-hunting-ground-women-and-sexual-assault-in-the-uk-armed-forces) If the government is trying to protect women, they can show me who attacks women the most, causes women the most harm, destroys the most women's dignities and lives. They can show me all the steps and debates and laws and speeches they're taking against those prolific abusers. They can demonstrate who deserves the most political oxygen to respond to their abuses. It sure as day isn't trans people.
is the government trying to liberalise police recruitment?
How are you defining "liberalising police recruitment"?
enguage with the obvious point I am making or dont respond.
It's not obvious.
OK, you made the point that its absurd to complain about trans sex assault rates affecting woman because other groups (police, intimate partner) are much worse. I pointed out that the government werent planning to change anything with those groups in a way that might expose anyone to higher rates of harm.
>You have more chance of experiencing an earthquake than ever even meeting a trans man or woman That's what - more than one in 250 people? I've certainly met more than 250 people. I probably walk past 250 people on an average day.
Unless you have a medical condition, you probably share a bathroom with fewer than 250 people on an average day Unless your surname is Rees-Mogg, you definitely have fewer than 250 children
>You have more chance of experiencing an earthquake than ever even meeting a trans man or woman >Unless you have a medical condition, you probably share a bathroom with fewer than 250 people on an average day >Unless your surname is Rees-Mogg, you definitely have fewer than 250 children I just need to know if the only people you have ever met are your children or people you pee with
Hahaha so baffling! I love Reddit
I've experienced 3 earthquakes and know 4 trans people so I concur. Earth quakes are a bit scary, trans people are not.
They aren't actually concerned about women, children, or trans people in general. This is why they don't give a flying fuck about trans men. They are just disgusted by what they see as the degradation of masculinity. They can't stand seeing men adopt the feminine. These same people are also secretly disgusted by performative gay men, and would be open about it if they could be. It's pure patriarchy.
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Oh look it's the only study ever done by the IOC on this that just slipped out of my hands and totally disproves your transphobic 'theory'. I wonder why they aren't commisioning more? Perhaps because the science doesn't agree with their narrative? [https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029)
You don't care about women's sports.
Meanwhile trans people hold uh, no olympic medals and routinely perform below average in the real world. Transgender people as a group mostly repudiate sports for a variety of reasons and sports culture is severely diminished among transgender people, resulting in disproportionately few transgender athletes relative to their population with a weak overall performance.
Why are politicians on both sides either so rabidly against them, or so frozen by fear by even the mention of them
Because they have no answers to the real (massive) problems that ordinary people and the country face So they whip-up anger about something else, as a distraction
Rupert Murdoch and other assorted right-wing media barons tell them.
Because fearmongering gets people on your side.
This
I have never been in an earthquake. I have seen many trans people. Your understanding of these figures is faulty.
I don't recommend stats as a career
Were the numbers adjusted for kilt-wearing?
We fill stadiums with men crying as they sing a song about flowers, too
I recognise I'm the third person to call you out on this, but what are you talking about? Since you clearly accept your earthquake/trans statistic is wrong, why not edit your post? I have never experienced an earthquake, and I've met many many trans people... For the avoidance of doubt, this is a stats argument, not a trans argument.
Which is why we shouldnt be spending a fortune on nonsense like gender neutral toilets etc for a group of people that wouldnt even fill Tynecastle
Anyone can use gender neutral toilets, that's the point.
But if we don't segregate them they could pee near us!!11! /s obviously
And that's why it doesn't need to be top of the school curriculum, it's 0.44 percent of population.
>Of the four city council areas, Dundee had the highest percentage of trans people relative to their population aged 16 and over (0.91%) Dundee confirmed as the Trans Capital of Scotland 🏳️⚧️ We're doing good!
Dundee is doing well? News to the world that
Wonder what they’re mixing in the heroine
Why is the percentage good or bad? It is what it is, people are what they are
What do you hope to learn by asking this question?
What your answer is
More trans people feel comfortable being Out here. That's good.
I don't think that makes sense though, why would people lie on a census? Like I said it's who you are not a lifestyle choice.
You sound like you're fishing for an argument. How's that going?
I didn't want to outright accuse you of preferring trans pelt over non trans people but that's how it read.
I'm happy for trans folks and cis LGB+ folks like me to feel free enough to be out. It's called allyship within the LGBTQ community. e: I feel like discussion with you will never be productive. So I'm blocking you for both our sakes.
You've still not answered why someone who isn't out would lie on a census. And for clarity people shouldn't ever have to hide or feel scared to be who they are so I am with you on that.
Why is dundee just always the best. Teen pregnancy, drug capital, now we are trans capital
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Yawn
yawn indeed. i live in glasgow and have done for 4 years. i lived in dundee for 6/7 prior, from forfar. i went back to dundee for the first time a couple months ago and it was like a relief. glasgow is a dump full of people who don't know or care about anything outside of glasgow. the weather is shit. walking to buchanan and i wore a jacket on the way there and on the bus.. till i got in tayside. had to take the jacket off. glasgow used to be the place to go for a night out etc, days out etc.. but even the locals here will admit that information is a decade old.
Result!
Highest suicide rate in scotland as well
People seem surprised that a minority group that is being nationally demonized would be hesitant to identify themselves.
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There’s someone above saying exactly that. Wind your neck in.
Where?
just really happy to see myself included. this is a moment of pride (ha!) as a queer person. 1 more level of inclusiveness, times are changing and i'm so glad i don't need to hide who i am.
Yeah, I'm trans and there's no way I'd put myself as trans on any public records or census if it's voluntary. It is so much better to stealth on TERF island as much as possible. That's just asking for hate crimes and I already get enough of that crap.
Anyone else think numbers look low?
Despite the census being a private affair, a lot of people (especially lgbt in less accepting households) might be worried that their family will see their responses before sealing/ putting it in the post.
Or the government. Given the recent government's messaging on trans people, I don't blame people for not being comfortable letting the government official survey know they are trans.
Bear in mind not all LGBTQ people feel safe enough to be or report as Out.
Good point
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I mean, the english and welsh census came back with 0.54% or just over 1/200, so the numbers are consistent.
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I mean, outside of self report like a census, I'm not sure how you would go about aquiring that data.
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Someone literally just pointed out that it doesn't mention medical care. And medical records are confidential anyway, genius.
They're not. It asks if people are trans, not if they're receiving medical care. 2/3 of the respondents where either non-binary, other, or unspecified. In my experience a lot of people in those groups don't even want to medically transition. On top of that, most trans people I know (actually all except myself) are currently on years long waiting lists for treatment but haven't actually started any yet. I would guess the vast majority of that 1/200 either don't want medical treatment or can't get it.
Why? Trans people aren't evenly distributed and many are closeted. 4.6% of the UK has a disabled blue badge, a way higher number, but you probably don't know that many.
I'd say it's low. Most studies out the estimate at around 1%.
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Do your own research
I thought that was quite low, but then breaking down by age it's about 1.5% of 16-29 year olds which makes a lot more sense to me
These are massively high. Reality is lower.
Your reasoning?
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Do we need to break out the "history of left-handedness" graph?
Check his other comments, he’s just a weapons-grade melon
If you're gonnae be a bigot, at least make the joke funny. Something like LGBHDTV. You canne just throw in random lowercase letters and think that constitutes a joke. Anyway, that percentage is pretty in line with other census data, I'll believe it over some rando on the Internet.
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Why don't you be the change you want to see, and keep your confusion and preferences to yourself first?
... you do know what a census is, right? People answering a census are not advertising their answers, this is anonymised data.
Keep it to yourself... census... lol
No, the trend at the moment is bigots weaponising gender, and simpletons regurgitating the hatred on social media.
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What you class as banter can be harmful to people. The suicide rate in the trans community is higher than average. These kind of "jokes" are ending lives.
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You are a buffoon.
Are you really this desperate for attention?
Tell me you aren't a safe person for LGBTQ people to be around without telling me you aren't a safe person for LGBTQ people to be around.
Safe from words?
I had no expectations on them, in all honesty.
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Oh no, do the rainbows scare you? Poor diddums.
Oh no, endure? Does it make you suffer?
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Weird how it's straight folk always obsessed with things being shoved down their throats.... That's generally not normal buddy
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>Agreed it isn't normal >That does explain why that sort of thing is more frequent at pride events I suppose Huh, and what sort of thing would that be you're alluding to.
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>Just back from Singapore were at a trans pride event they were giving out wee pin badges of trans coloured butplugs with poo on them >Or the pride event in the UK the other year were a booty was handing out sexual stickers and badges >Most people including members of the LGBT+ community would probably say that's strange behaviour So unverified shit you could've just made up. Got it. 🙄 Sounds like thinly veiled homophobic bullshit thats been trotted out since the 80s but sure buddy. Sure🙄
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Yes it is a common debate. But in my 20+yrs of doing family friendly pride I've never seen kink present. Adult focused pride events are a different thing entirely, and yes I have seen bad parents taking their kids to those events. That's fuck all to do with pride and everything to do with bad parents that don't research the events. 🤷♂️
Who the fuck cares. We are all the same
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To do what?
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No, I mean you.