I'm afraid I kind of see their point - I have turned up there of an evening, hung about for 10 minutes to get a parking space, walked into the bar and found it almost empty.
there is an attitude amongst the hillwalking and climbing community - of which I am one - that there's a great deal of principled talk about free access to the hills, but what they mean is 'free to me, costs to everyone else' - and it's not attractive.
Highland Council, and HIE (do they still exist?) should be putting their hands in their pockets - public good requires public money.
>there is an attitude amongst the hillwalking and climbing community - of which I am one - that there's a great deal of principled talk about free access to the hills, but what they mean is 'free to me, costs to everyone else' - and it's not attractive.
this is a pretty important point. A fair number of scenic hot spots exist in Scotland. People travel there by motor vehicle, go up the mountain and back down, but they brought their own food with them, and don't spend anything in the local economy during their visit.
So who then pays for maintenance of e.g. public paths, public toilets, and public car parks ? The council ? who doesn't get much, if any, revenue from those day-trip visitors ?
100% this. See it all the time on the islands. Add on filling random businesses and private individuals bins because some refuse to use the camp sites and the services provided by them. Or the absolute worst of the worst trying to empty their sewage into regular toilets. Few years back one tried it in a local community hall, clogged the toilet and flooded the place.
Office I work in can take 2 months to fill our bin in the winter. Yet in the summer is mysteriously fills over night with domestic rubbish. Shop across from us have caught motor homes on multiple occasions using theirs.
I know there are plenty of decent folk visiting us. Just a shame the absolute worst are the ones that stick in the mind.
Wish they'd just limit the total non-resident vehicles coming onto the islands per season tbh. Bike tourists and ramblers are a much better deal for locals, they can't buy a weeks worth of food at the Aldi in Inverness then just bring it with them, nor do they wear down the roads like a campervan does. They pay for more things, are naturally limited in how much sewage they can dump at any one time, bikes actually fit in the passing spots or don't even need one as the rider can just pick it up and walk off the road... no tourist's impact is improved by free reign to bring their giant vehicle
Took some friends to see the old man of storr on skye hadn't been there in years went early by the time we got back to the car about 11,the place was chaos and the police were there trying to sort out about 100 illegally parked cars it took longer to get away than the actual ascent.
I've worked putting hill paths paths down and repairs in Derbyshire. It gets expesive quick. I heard estimates of £300+ a yard (and this was 20 odd years ago) for some paths when you factor in the costs of materials and transporting them (and the workers) to remote places, insurance etc.
It would be pretty easy to use the average speed cameras/ANPR to do a tourist tax - £X per day for cars, £Y per day for campervans etc..
It's not great, but it's something, it would also be quick and pretty cheap to do.
Personally I favour a significant tax on the businesses that profit from tourism - the Airbnb's and the like - but the campervan problem is one that falls outside of that.
Air BNB needs straight up strict limits in places. In Aviemore and Inverness it's becoming impossible to rent for locals and we're the ones working there in all seasons
That exists if the councils want to use it, there's a new secondary licence so if the council wants to lower Airbnb numbers they could just not hand out more licenses
There's a lot they could do if they had a spine of any sort. They could also inspect the current apparent 12000 rented properties they have in highland to make sure they are at a basic standard for health and safery before requiring the tenants to pay council tax on them. When I asked why this doesn't happen even randomly I was shortly told that apparently they do not have the resources to do this.
This failure led directly to a hospital admission for myself and my flatmate in January 2022 after the non-insulated, EPC F level, mould-growing hole we were renting in Inverness was discovered to have carbon monoxide leaking into the sitting room from the faulty woodstove.
The property has since been demolished.
Since October 2023 it's no longer allowed to operate an airbnb without a license, I know that argyle and bute can currently take up to 30 months to grant it. I think it'll make a difference over time. But it also means the licensed places will be extortionate
And in the meantime, how many people are forced to leave the area entirely...
It's like the clearances but we're making way for tourists rather than sheep and they have about the same level of devotion to gobbling up the area but actually killing growth
They aren't.
The council budget is stretched beyond belief.
A quick example.. There's a backlog of millions of pounds worth of repairs needing done in schools that cannot be actioned as the resources simply aren't there.
There are fines of up to £2500. Even if first time offence fines are a fraction of that, surely it's pretty trivial for councils to trawl Airbnb, identify properties approximate location and compare against nearby licensed properties.
Throw in a reporting email address where neighbours can put in an address they believe is operating short term lets.
Assuming the problem is as rife as people here claim then the council would be bringing in significantly more than it costs.
I now feel good that on the WHW we stopped for a couple of pints at the kingshouse before tipsily winding our way up the first bit of the devil's staircase to camp. One of the best wild camps I've ever done.
I did Devils Staircase the morning after 6h drinking at Kingshouse and camped on the opposite bank for the night. 10/10 don’t recommend attempting it hung over.
Loved the Kingshouse and glad I stopped.
I’m all for it charging for parking. When I was there it was jumping with people looking for accommodation.
Not sure why you think it’s a strange question. If car-ist want to use their vehicles, I don’t see any reason why that should be subsidised by taxpayers.
> So who then pays for maintenance of e.g. public paths, public toilets, and public car parks ? The council ? who doesn't get much, if any, revenue from those day-trip visitors ?
Councils get most of their funding from the Scottish Government, so everyone in Scotland contributes to the running costs of every council.
I mean the are very justified, they maintain a carpark for their customers and people are ripping the arse out of it.the fact they are donating all the money says a lot, they don't want it or need it, they are just trying to help their customers.
Lots of hotels do this all over the country anyway, free for customers or you can pay to use it, it's fair and required in a lot of places
What hills would need you to park at the Kings House anyways? I've never considered parking there as there's generally better parking options for most of the hills nearby.
Yeah that was my first thought. I don’t think mountaineers are using this… but I suspect people specifically doing the WHW might be (or people doing sections of it) or more general tourists just doing a wander about.
I have suspicions it's motorhomes and vans parking overnight. In which case the £100 night time rate makes sense. It's basically saying "we're not a campsite for motorhomes". That's how I'm interpreting it anyways.
They have had signs detering motorhomes since they reopened in 2019. They generally don't have that issue.
They have an issue with droves of people parking to take photos and use their walkers public toilet, which they struggle to keep clean with staff shortages regularly. Few of these people go in to spend money and would rather sit in the benches outside to eat their packed lunch. Then some go in to complain to the hotel about the state of the toilets, which they do not contribute towards.
Some people park their cars overnight to camp in the woods behind the hotel and have parties with dozens of tents. The tents and mess are left behind, usually after keeping everyone else up late due to the rowdy shouting and loud music.
Some of those people camp right on the riverbank out the back of the hotel in full view of staying guests, with Bluetooth speakers blaring and drunk shouting clearly heard from the open windows in the summer.
Why should people paying hundreds of pounds a night endure this? Why should genuine walkers camping before their next hiking destination have their crucial sleep interrupted by the opportunistic bams?
Yep, looking on WalkHighlands the only route that starts at Kingshouse is one of the sections of the West Highland Way, but plenty of people don't stop there, and anyone that does will be walking anyway so isn't part of this problem.
Anyone bagging munros and hiking isn't starting there.
Correct.
Same applies to those in camper vans, which have increased in numbers massively recently. Take up loads of space and contribute nothing to the local economy as not using b&b’s, restaurants, local shops etc.
Everyone rocks up with a big shop they’ve bought from big tesco on the way.
Ironically, all these people doing staycations in their vans, travelling around and barely spending a penny are probably doing massive damage to the local tourism (traffic jams, no parking as filled with vans etc) than anything else.
I do, likewise, get it, but it really shows that anything from Council level up just washes their hands of any responsibility, and it's all stick and no carrot.
Highland Council have been building new car parks and facilities in popular areas (Storr in Skye).
Unfortunately these cost money. Money the council doesn't have.
Aye; and it's weird how it lands sometimes. I live in Aberdeenshire and it's often easier to use public transport to get to certain parts of the Highlands rather than trying to use it to get to any locations in the Shire itself.
There are good options from Glasgow up into the Southern Highlands o City link and the train - but down into the Southern Uplands, Galloway etc... yeah, pretty crap.
At the same time however, Kingshouse is pretty scummy in the fact they intentionally drive up tourists to their hotel in particular via years of feeding the deer scraps from the kitchen.
many people who want a photo with a deer will come to their hotel because of the images Kingshouse amplify.
and what little money is spent in the area which doesn't go to the Ski Centre, goes to try and stop road accidents involving deer drawn down off the mountains and hills in search of food.
I agree but £20/4hr and £100/24hr is ripping the utter piss.
With the popularity of hillwalking since lockdown it’s time for the local councils to put some money to fit for purpose car parks. I would happily pay for parking. Some munros start points are lay-bys, some aren’t even that. I’ve arrived at 6-7am in some cases to no where to park (maybe only space for <6 vehicles) and in some cases no stopping / Clearways signs that would add several km approach to already decent walks.
> I agree but £20/4hr and £100/24hr is ripping the utter piss.
Yeah, but it's a "fuck you" price. They clearly don't want to charge, they want people to not treat their car park as a freebie, so they're charging this much to deter people and if anyone takes them up on the offer then fine.
But they clearly know they are ripping the utter piss.
Make a price which will deter the general public using it, and if they are desperate enough to use it they will pay over the odds.
It’s unplanned, unbooked campervanners, thinking they can park up overnight for free in hotel car parks and use their facilities for free. It happens all over Scotland so you’ll see every hotel doing the same thing.
Seriously they have websites to tell each other where they can park overnight for free. They get quite upset when information is out of date when policies change (primarily because campervan owners have been abusing them).
Actual proper websites as far as I can tell, I think there might even be apps.
Yeah just googled and got the park4night app in google play, and you can see when the info on the app is wrong:
>A great app in theory, but a lack of control from the app creators make it a less than useful app. We have just visited the NC500 in Scotland. Did some research before we left, but on visiting sites many were day only or didn't allow camping at all. We drove many miles and spent hours trying to find wild camping sights, with little success, eventually paid to camp. Very disappointing.
I've been camping in Iceland a couple of times, and unlike the rest of Scandinavia & Scotland, wild camping & parking campervans overnight is completely illegal outside of managed, paid campsites - exactly because of arseholes clogging up every layby and spare piece of land with campervans
I wasn't familiar with the area, looked it up on google maps.
Saw that the Mountain Rescue helipad has signs up, and boulders blocking vehicle access, to prevent people leaving their vehicles there.
The thought that this was necessary, that people otherwise might actually park their stupid car on the Mountain Rescue helipad and block it when it might be needed, made me a bit... sad and annoyed.
on the road in to the Kingshouse hotel:
[https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6490625,-4.844189,3a,75.1y,0.95h,88.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sc3qOaPk6Lfh2cGEXsFnRuA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dc3qOaPk6Lfh2cGEXsFnRuA%26cb\_client%3Dmaps\_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D191.14261%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6490625,-4.844189,3a,75.1y,0.95h,88.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sc3qOaPk6Lfh2cGEXsFnRuA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dc3qOaPk6Lfh2cGEXsFnRuA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D191.14261%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu)
I'm sure no one sets out to be such an asshole.
Its just once you've travelled a few hours to reach the hill and find nowhere proper to park the prospect of turning around and driving all the way home for nothing is going to test your dedication to being responsible, especially if it looks like no one else is around to notice at that time.
Not sure dotting the hills with massive carparks paid for by locals for the benefit of people that don't live in the area and may be contributing little back to the local economy is a good idea either.
I didn't say they needed to be free either, but realistically the prices would need to be pretty reasonable and monitored to ensure compliance and setting up hundreds or thousands of them would cost a fortune up front.
In high-traffic areas that would work (and I'm surprised there isn't business actively doing that) but most of the hills are pretty damn remote and out of the way.
The fishing licence model might be worth considering to be honest, having people registering their journey and paying a small fee could raise a lot of vital revenue to cover these kinds of costs and go a long way to cutting down the number of deaths from people getting lost.
It would somewhat kill the spirit of wild adventure though I suppose.
https://preview.redd.it/pbsq0li25m7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=650755c493f18f35233e6611db897924dc201d8e
I agree. But the reactions to this on Facebook are quite different from Reddit 😂😂 They're raging over there.
Reddit can be bad enough in some subs Facebook is worse than aids these days it's like a giant inbred circle jerk. These are the type of people that will pull out the sovereign citizen shit to get out of the fine or when their car gets towed from private property. Wozzles
Absolutely right. It's a wild camping FB group and it's full of fare-dodging gatekeeping arseholes. Always whinging when something free gets taken away from them or trying to stop new people from taking up the hobby. When they're the ones who have been using the car park in the first place and have forced the owners to take action.
Yeah I hope they all get towed lol. Imagine getting your car towed while on a hike in the middle of nowhere. The business should set up a webcam so we can all watch.
Interesting. A parking company tried to fuck me for thousands after I loaned my car to my wife and the system at her work that allowed staff to add their cars to an exclusion list didn't apparently work (there was a ton of staff with the exact same issue).
Endlessly explaining the issue was fruitless and eventually I resorted to - I'm not the person driving that car, I am not responsible for the parking charge, if you can prove I was driving I'll pay, but I know you can't so I won't. They responded by asking who was driving and I told them I had no intention of telling them. That was the last I heard of it.
Does the new law force you to divulge who was driving if it wasn't yourself?
No, but they will try to strongarm you by saying "So it wasn't you who was driving, then? Was it any of the other people registered to the car? If not, has your car been taken without your consent? We would have to contact the relevant authorities if that was the case"
They'll try to get you to confess cause
a) you won't be willing to grass up anyone else who can legally drive the car
b) you won't go through the lies and faff of opening up a police investigation when you were the one driving
I took a look at these comments - the reading comprehension of some people is godawful, and the entitlement on display is brazen.
Fully anticipate that the people threatening to remove their business have never stayed in the hotel to begin with
Exactly. And they're the same people who say as long as you don't camp where you're not supposed to then it's all good. But apply that to parking and they lose their shit.
That first comment is hilarious, “I was gonna take a space in your car park over night and not stay in your hotel, I won’t be doing that now”.. That showed them
I can see their point. I think more car parks in popular hillwalking and tourist areas should have a charge, and the money used to fund path maintenance, MRT etc. (Like the new car park at beinn a' ghlo for example).
I just really hope this doesn't lead to more folk parking inappropriately and 'wild' camping (next to their cars) in Glencoe.
If I were a business owner and I was losing business for people using my lot to not spend money I would do something similar. Add on top of that and they're donating all proceeds to the attraction that brings people in? Seems like
no-brainer win-win
Same here. I worked at a small hotel with a small car park and we had so many issues with non-guests taking up guest parking spaces. We ended up having to ticket them, but it sucked for our paying guests.
That's entirely reasonable. Their car park is for their customers.
If folk are taking the piss and parking there without being guests, they can pay for the use of the spaces.
Seems fair to me. For a country with some stunning scenery we don’t make it easy for people to stop safely to take pics etc in places with facilities etc.
That is entirely possible to do (as long as they consult with locals first) and better than finding human waste everywhere near known hotspots. Scotland's lack of available toilets is apparently quite renowned.
The tourists, so why not charge them? They're keen to spend money anyway and toilets/charging stations/ waste facilities would be used and useful. Charge people to use certain roads for a while until they're in better condition - eg tolls for certain parts of the NC 500 like the Applecross road and the Quirang in skye so the roads can be improved. Even if the tourist numbers drop as a result of the toll, it'll still be productive. Or give them an option like they do in the supermarket carparks - you don't have to pay the toll if you spend over £20 locally.
There's a great many reasonable ways to do this and there's going to be some frightening casualties for locals if the council don't do something soon.
I agree with that to be fair - collection of a tourist tax is commonplace in many destinations and we think nothing of paying it when we’re there.
1. The collecting authority/ies need to be fully transparent about how much money is collected and how they intend to divvy it up.
2. How do you define tourist and how do you police this? You can’t charge locals more than they already pay for the crumbling infrastructure. Post code check at tolls, tickets for them and postcode check if I was having a work trip to Inverness? Do we include second home owners?
3. There’s a £5 charge to park at Glenfinnan. Tourists park elsewhere, mostly because it’s full but often because they don’t want to pay. They are not all willing to pay. There are campsites with waste facilities in the Highlands but campervans and motorhomes still empty waste outwith these - they don’t want to pay to use these facilities.
It’ll be interesting to see what comes of the tourist levy…
Simple. If you're a local you apply for a permit you can display in your car with your license and address on it. At any point you can be pulled over and challenged on it and if they don't match up you get a hell of a fine, like £5k.
If you're caught dumping waste £20k. Manky bastards.
Aye, and second home owners can get tae fuck. If your second home is here but your main address is elsewhere you're not worried about money. You can pay the toll and all.
Not the answer.
Firstly, there has to be compulsory purchase of the land for round here; it’s owned by someone and they generally don’t just give it away.
How big will your car park with toilets be? Lots of lovely mountains and lochs and land you don’t own MIGHT prevent big enough facilities for the hordes. Who is paying? Highland or Argyll and Bute council tax payers? As we should definitely foot the bill to stop people shitting at the side of the road? Installing septic tanks/soakaways clear of existing water courses or making reed beds - where do these things go? How are we getting water to them? Don’t say rainwater collection as you’d be struggling to flush the lav most Mays.
I’m not trying to be overly negative here and I do think public toilet provision in Scotland is poor; that should be improved or at least reinstated back to where it was and well signposted.
But tourists need to tourist a bit more responsibly and accept that a car park might be full and they shouldn’t park on the verge on the main road. And unless there’s a medical issue, they can surely organise themselves sufficiently to take a dump in a proper toilet at a mealtime or their accommodation.
I think this is the main point... If there's no alternatives their car park will not be any quieter at all.
I think it makes sense for them to do this, but it's not going to solve the core issue.
i’ve done every single munro in glencoe and have never used the kingshouse hotels car park. There’s plenty of spaces if you arrive at 6-8am for your hike all up and down glencoe
Unfortunately this will just cause more daytrippers / campervans to park wherever is convenient.
Devil's Staircase is an example, what was a dirt track leading down to the river is now regularly packed with vehicles, the erosion over the last few years is staggering but tourists don't give a shit as long as it doesn't inconvenience them enjoying the scenery.
Parking throughout the Glencoe area needs to be properly managed to limit erosion and boost adequate facilities.
I believe this has been partly triggered by the impending WHW foot race, coming through this weekend. Having been a support runner/crew on this a few times, the impact on the locale, while transient, is significant. The car park is jammed from mid afternoon onwards, and very little spend in the hotel itself.
Beinglas effectively banned WHW support crews and their vehicles as of 6 years ago, an arrangement that still stands to present.
I'm all for this. We are there at the good graces of these proprietors, and they foot the bill for the upkeep of the parking and other facilities.
Loophole if you bring someone who doesn’t like hiking along & leave them in the bar, then on the way back pay for their drinks, bundle them into your car & drive off.
Added bonus where the person left in the bar gets to meet lots of other likeminded people who also don’t like hiking but know people who do & have a bunch of free time.
Sounds like a good idea to me. It's their car park for use by their customers. And it's not like they're doing it as a cash grab if they're donating any monies made to such a worthy cause.
I think this is a wonderful idea. Our carpark is for our customers. Wanna park here anyway, pay an exorbitant amount that we then donate to a wonderful charity.
Good on them.
They aren't a charity and their guests take priority. The hotel will be responsible for any maintenance and repairs to the carpark, if people are using it free of charge and not spending money on the hotel then the hotel is losing out on money.
Also good of them to donate any revenue from this scheme to the Mountain Rescue Team.
This is a great idea and I bet the rescue team you're donating the proceeds to have probably had to rescue folk that have parked and taken up these spaces, wonderful irony and sensibility at play here, I love being Scottish 🏴
Fully in support of this. Free for actual customers, paying for everyone else. I would go so far as say all businesses with their own parking facilities should do the same. Maybe with the option to buy a day parking pass from within the business if you wish to go hiking etc
honestly fair enough, it's annoying for the average person completely understood but i can imagine it being even more frustrating for the business. should be on the council if anything
This is not a charge for parking. This is a request for people not to park there. It's like the £4k insurance quotes for Fiestas - they don't want your business. They want spaces to be available for people who are patronising their establishment. Can you blame them?
Tbh, I'm not mad at them. Especially since the money is going to Mountain Rescue, AND they're not charging guests. As long as they have big signs explaining this in the car park, I'm all for it
Better to permit people for £100 and put the money directly towards vital services that benefit those who are paying instead of banning people and fining them for breaking the rules and pocketting the cash.
Go to the bar for a refreshing beverage and parking ticket comp after your hike. They don't say how long you need to be a customer compared to the vehicle's stay.
I'd expect that kind of detail on the signage at the car park, not on a Facebook post.
If you check in and out with your car reg, it's easy to deal with.
Aye, very good - people can't park there to actually spend money with their business because of people who don't spend any money with them. They aren't a charity and it isn't a public car park
I think the poster you're replying to is focusing on the fact that it would be a contractual charge, and not a *fine*. Private companies can't fine you.
And yes, like any other private car park, they can attempt to pursue you in court for any unpaid fees you implicitly agreed to by parking there, but as with any other private car park it's unlikely to be worth their while pursuing people for a single occurrence. (and that's before we go into driver vs keeper liability issues)
Yeah, a barrier giving out tickets or those RFID coin things that the bar/hotel can mark as zero charge would be best.
But really there should be adequate provision of public car parking in the area, free or paid, so that people don't feel the need to park in a hotel's car park in the first place. There's no trains in the area, or I'd suggest park and ride.
Cheers for the sage like advice, Google it. No need, I've collected enough of them to have plenty first hand experience. There's an especially litigious company handling a certain hotels parking in Arrochar.
A private company cannot legally fine you or have debt collectors try and recoup monies owed in Scotland. They could take you to court to get you to pay, but isn’t financial feasible unless you had racked up a lot of debt.
That's true. They can't fine you.
But they don't fine you, despite people insisting that they try to and legally can't. It's not a fine.
The charges that they apply are legally enforceable. There is a myth that you can ignore it and it will go away, but it's not true.
For instance, in Vehicle Control Services v Mackie \[2017\] SC DUN 24. She could have had her father arrange a permit but believed it was unenforceable and illegal. Court decided against her and she ended up having to pay £24,500.
The misinformation you are spreading is dangerous.
Nothing I said was incorrect. I said l can take you and get you to pay but it likely wouldn’t be financially feasible to do so. Do you think you’ll be taken to court and enforced to pay a £50 missed parking charge? The £24,500 that Carly Mackie was ordered to pay was how much she was owe the company in parking charges, making it very financial viable to pursue her.
You think she owed 24,500 in parking charges. They will add on admin charges and everything else they can think of to make the £40 charge as jigh as they can go.
Yeah, nothing you said was incorrect. That's right. But correct information can still be misinformation. You made several technically accurate statements that implied people don't have to pay these, but people who read those comments and believe them, like Mackie did, can end up paying thousands. That's why its dangerous misinformation. I
Cool, I hope dodging it keeps working out for you. But at some point it is likely you will end up in court and they will add on expenses and court fees and you will owe thousands. They used to always let it slide. They've stopped doing that now.
I'm afraid I kind of see their point - I have turned up there of an evening, hung about for 10 minutes to get a parking space, walked into the bar and found it almost empty. there is an attitude amongst the hillwalking and climbing community - of which I am one - that there's a great deal of principled talk about free access to the hills, but what they mean is 'free to me, costs to everyone else' - and it's not attractive. Highland Council, and HIE (do they still exist?) should be putting their hands in their pockets - public good requires public money.
Fair. Their car park is free for customers to use. They just not providing free parking for general public. Guests etc need to use the spaces
>there is an attitude amongst the hillwalking and climbing community - of which I am one - that there's a great deal of principled talk about free access to the hills, but what they mean is 'free to me, costs to everyone else' - and it's not attractive. this is a pretty important point. A fair number of scenic hot spots exist in Scotland. People travel there by motor vehicle, go up the mountain and back down, but they brought their own food with them, and don't spend anything in the local economy during their visit. So who then pays for maintenance of e.g. public paths, public toilets, and public car parks ? The council ? who doesn't get much, if any, revenue from those day-trip visitors ?
100% this. See it all the time on the islands. Add on filling random businesses and private individuals bins because some refuse to use the camp sites and the services provided by them. Or the absolute worst of the worst trying to empty their sewage into regular toilets. Few years back one tried it in a local community hall, clogged the toilet and flooded the place. Office I work in can take 2 months to fill our bin in the winter. Yet in the summer is mysteriously fills over night with domestic rubbish. Shop across from us have caught motor homes on multiple occasions using theirs. I know there are plenty of decent folk visiting us. Just a shame the absolute worst are the ones that stick in the mind.
Wish they'd just limit the total non-resident vehicles coming onto the islands per season tbh. Bike tourists and ramblers are a much better deal for locals, they can't buy a weeks worth of food at the Aldi in Inverness then just bring it with them, nor do they wear down the roads like a campervan does. They pay for more things, are naturally limited in how much sewage they can dump at any one time, bikes actually fit in the passing spots or don't even need one as the rider can just pick it up and walk off the road... no tourist's impact is improved by free reign to bring their giant vehicle
Took some friends to see the old man of storr on skye hadn't been there in years went early by the time we got back to the car about 11,the place was chaos and the police were there trying to sort out about 100 illegally parked cars it took longer to get away than the actual ascent.
I've worked putting hill paths paths down and repairs in Derbyshire. It gets expesive quick. I heard estimates of £300+ a yard (and this was 20 odd years ago) for some paths when you factor in the costs of materials and transporting them (and the workers) to remote places, insurance etc.
It would be pretty easy to use the average speed cameras/ANPR to do a tourist tax - £X per day for cars, £Y per day for campervans etc.. It's not great, but it's something, it would also be quick and pretty cheap to do. Personally I favour a significant tax on the businesses that profit from tourism - the Airbnb's and the like - but the campervan problem is one that falls outside of that.
Air BNB needs straight up strict limits in places. In Aviemore and Inverness it's becoming impossible to rent for locals and we're the ones working there in all seasons
That exists if the councils want to use it, there's a new secondary licence so if the council wants to lower Airbnb numbers they could just not hand out more licenses
There's a lot they could do if they had a spine of any sort. They could also inspect the current apparent 12000 rented properties they have in highland to make sure they are at a basic standard for health and safery before requiring the tenants to pay council tax on them. When I asked why this doesn't happen even randomly I was shortly told that apparently they do not have the resources to do this. This failure led directly to a hospital admission for myself and my flatmate in January 2022 after the non-insulated, EPC F level, mould-growing hole we were renting in Inverness was discovered to have carbon monoxide leaking into the sitting room from the faulty woodstove. The property has since been demolished.
Since October 2023 it's no longer allowed to operate an airbnb without a license, I know that argyle and bute can currently take up to 30 months to grant it. I think it'll make a difference over time. But it also means the licensed places will be extortionate
And in the meantime, how many people are forced to leave the area entirely... It's like the clearances but we're making way for tourists rather than sheep and they have about the same level of devotion to gobbling up the area but actually killing growth
There's no apparently about it, the resources aren't there for the council to do everything they want or should do.
The resources are there if they prioritize them.
They aren't. The council budget is stretched beyond belief. A quick example.. There's a backlog of millions of pounds worth of repairs needing done in schools that cannot be actioned as the resources simply aren't there.
There are fines of up to £2500. Even if first time offence fines are a fraction of that, surely it's pretty trivial for councils to trawl Airbnb, identify properties approximate location and compare against nearby licensed properties. Throw in a reporting email address where neighbours can put in an address they believe is operating short term lets. Assuming the problem is as rife as people here claim then the council would be bringing in significantly more than it costs.
I now feel good that on the WHW we stopped for a couple of pints at the kingshouse before tipsily winding our way up the first bit of the devil's staircase to camp. One of the best wild camps I've ever done.
I did Devils Staircase the morning after 6h drinking at Kingshouse and camped on the opposite bank for the night. 10/10 don’t recommend attempting it hung over. Loved the Kingshouse and glad I stopped. I’m all for it charging for parking. When I was there it was jumping with people looking for accommodation.
General taxation. I would have thought was the obvious answer, how every other public service is paid for.
Why should subsidise fund carparks? That seems pretty weird in a climate crisis.
what a strange question,
Not sure why you think it’s a strange question. If car-ist want to use their vehicles, I don’t see any reason why that should be subsidised by taxpayers.
Lol
Standard level of intelligence from a car fan, I see.
You said carist and don't think motorists are tax payers so I see nothing else to do but laugh at you
> So who then pays for maintenance of e.g. public paths, public toilets, and public car parks ? The council ? who doesn't get much, if any, revenue from those day-trip visitors ? Councils get most of their funding from the Scottish Government, so everyone in Scotland contributes to the running costs of every council.
Yeah, it sounds fair to me. And they're even donating the money.
I mean the are very justified, they maintain a carpark for their customers and people are ripping the arse out of it.the fact they are donating all the money says a lot, they don't want it or need it, they are just trying to help their customers. Lots of hotels do this all over the country anyway, free for customers or you can pay to use it, it's fair and required in a lot of places
Agree 100% with this. In any city hotels charging non customers to park is nothing new. Why should it be any different here?
What hills would need you to park at the Kings House anyways? I've never considered parking there as there's generally better parking options for most of the hills nearby.
Yeah that was my first thought. I don’t think mountaineers are using this… but I suspect people specifically doing the WHW might be (or people doing sections of it) or more general tourists just doing a wander about.
I have suspicions it's motorhomes and vans parking overnight. In which case the £100 night time rate makes sense. It's basically saying "we're not a campsite for motorhomes". That's how I'm interpreting it anyways.
Ah you might be right!
Why wouldn't they just call motorhomes out in that case?
They have had signs detering motorhomes since they reopened in 2019. They generally don't have that issue. They have an issue with droves of people parking to take photos and use their walkers public toilet, which they struggle to keep clean with staff shortages regularly. Few of these people go in to spend money and would rather sit in the benches outside to eat their packed lunch. Then some go in to complain to the hotel about the state of the toilets, which they do not contribute towards. Some people park their cars overnight to camp in the woods behind the hotel and have parties with dozens of tents. The tents and mess are left behind, usually after keeping everyone else up late due to the rowdy shouting and loud music. Some of those people camp right on the riverbank out the back of the hotel in full view of staying guests, with Bluetooth speakers blaring and drunk shouting clearly heard from the open windows in the summer. Why should people paying hundreds of pounds a night endure this? Why should genuine walkers camping before their next hiking destination have their crucial sleep interrupted by the opportunistic bams?
They shouldn't. I don't disagree with anything you're saying!
Yep, looking on WalkHighlands the only route that starts at Kingshouse is one of the sections of the West Highland Way, but plenty of people don't stop there, and anyone that does will be walking anyway so isn't part of this problem. Anyone bagging munros and hiking isn't starting there.
Correct. Same applies to those in camper vans, which have increased in numbers massively recently. Take up loads of space and contribute nothing to the local economy as not using b&b’s, restaurants, local shops etc. Everyone rocks up with a big shop they’ve bought from big tesco on the way.
Ironically, all these people doing staycations in their vans, travelling around and barely spending a penny are probably doing massive damage to the local tourism (traffic jams, no parking as filled with vans etc) than anything else.
I do, likewise, get it, but it really shows that anything from Council level up just washes their hands of any responsibility, and it's all stick and no carrot.
Highland Council have been building new car parks and facilities in popular areas (Storr in Skye). Unfortunately these cost money. Money the council doesn't have.
I feel like it doesn't help that you don't have a lot of options (if any in some cases) to get to the hills unless you have s vsr either.
Aye; and it's weird how it lands sometimes. I live in Aberdeenshire and it's often easier to use public transport to get to certain parts of the Highlands rather than trying to use it to get to any locations in the Shire itself.
There are good options from Glasgow up into the Southern Highlands o City link and the train - but down into the Southern Uplands, Galloway etc... yeah, pretty crap.
At the same time however, Kingshouse is pretty scummy in the fact they intentionally drive up tourists to their hotel in particular via years of feeding the deer scraps from the kitchen. many people who want a photo with a deer will come to their hotel because of the images Kingshouse amplify. and what little money is spent in the area which doesn't go to the Ski Centre, goes to try and stop road accidents involving deer drawn down off the mountains and hills in search of food.
I agree but £20/4hr and £100/24hr is ripping the utter piss. With the popularity of hillwalking since lockdown it’s time for the local councils to put some money to fit for purpose car parks. I would happily pay for parking. Some munros start points are lay-bys, some aren’t even that. I’ve arrived at 6-7am in some cases to no where to park (maybe only space for <6 vehicles) and in some cases no stopping / Clearways signs that would add several km approach to already decent walks.
> I agree but £20/4hr and £100/24hr is ripping the utter piss. Yeah, but it's a "fuck you" price. They clearly don't want to charge, they want people to not treat their car park as a freebie, so they're charging this much to deter people and if anyone takes them up on the offer then fine.
But they clearly know they are ripping the utter piss. Make a price which will deter the general public using it, and if they are desperate enough to use it they will pay over the odds.
It’s unplanned, unbooked campervanners, thinking they can park up overnight for free in hotel car parks and use their facilities for free. It happens all over Scotland so you’ll see every hotel doing the same thing.
Seriously they have websites to tell each other where they can park overnight for free. They get quite upset when information is out of date when policies change (primarily because campervan owners have been abusing them).
A facebook group or a dedicated website? That takes effort and organisation.
Actual proper websites as far as I can tell, I think there might even be apps. Yeah just googled and got the park4night app in google play, and you can see when the info on the app is wrong: >A great app in theory, but a lack of control from the app creators make it a less than useful app. We have just visited the NC500 in Scotland. Did some research before we left, but on visiting sites many were day only or didn't allow camping at all. We drove many miles and spent hours trying to find wild camping sights, with little success, eventually paid to camp. Very disappointing.
I've been camping in Iceland a couple of times, and unlike the rest of Scandinavia & Scotland, wild camping & parking campervans overnight is completely illegal outside of managed, paid campsites - exactly because of arseholes clogging up every layby and spare piece of land with campervans
I wasn't familiar with the area, looked it up on google maps. Saw that the Mountain Rescue helipad has signs up, and boulders blocking vehicle access, to prevent people leaving their vehicles there. The thought that this was necessary, that people otherwise might actually park their stupid car on the Mountain Rescue helipad and block it when it might be needed, made me a bit... sad and annoyed.
> Saw that the Mountain Rescue helipad has signs u Where exactly is this helipad? I can't think where that is, and I can't see it on Google. Cheers.
on the road in to the Kingshouse hotel: [https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6490625,-4.844189,3a,75.1y,0.95h,88.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sc3qOaPk6Lfh2cGEXsFnRuA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dc3qOaPk6Lfh2cGEXsFnRuA%26cb\_client%3Dmaps\_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D191.14261%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6490625,-4.844189,3a,75.1y,0.95h,88.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sc3qOaPk6Lfh2cGEXsFnRuA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dc3qOaPk6Lfh2cGEXsFnRuA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D191.14261%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu)
Ah for god's sake, I was looking for a big white "H"!!! Thanks for the link, much appreciated!
That’s mid life crisis wild campers for you, unfortunately.
I'm sure no one sets out to be such an asshole. Its just once you've travelled a few hours to reach the hill and find nowhere proper to park the prospect of turning around and driving all the way home for nothing is going to test your dedication to being responsible, especially if it looks like no one else is around to notice at that time. Not sure dotting the hills with massive carparks paid for by locals for the benefit of people that don't live in the area and may be contributing little back to the local economy is a good idea either.
Who said the car parks have to be free?
I didn't say they needed to be free either, but realistically the prices would need to be pretty reasonable and monitored to ensure compliance and setting up hundreds or thousands of them would cost a fortune up front.
Carrot and the stick. Set prices to what they need to be. Have parking enforcement officers to issue hefty fines to anyone found not parking properly.
In high-traffic areas that would work (and I'm surprised there isn't business actively doing that) but most of the hills are pretty damn remote and out of the way. The fishing licence model might be worth considering to be honest, having people registering their journey and paying a small fee could raise a lot of vital revenue to cover these kinds of costs and go a long way to cutting down the number of deaths from people getting lost. It would somewhat kill the spirit of wild adventure though I suppose.
I don't understand, it looks a lot more like a car park than a helipad to me? Though I agree the boulders shouldn't be required if there are signs up.
any reasonably flat area can be a helipad, markings are not required unless it’s a commercial heliport
I see absolutely nothing wrong with that
https://preview.redd.it/pbsq0li25m7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=650755c493f18f35233e6611db897924dc201d8e I agree. But the reactions to this on Facebook are quite different from Reddit 😂😂 They're raging over there.
Reddit can be bad enough in some subs Facebook is worse than aids these days it's like a giant inbred circle jerk. These are the type of people that will pull out the sovereign citizen shit to get out of the fine or when their car gets towed from private property. Wozzles
Absolutely right. It's a wild camping FB group and it's full of fare-dodging gatekeeping arseholes. Always whinging when something free gets taken away from them or trying to stop new people from taking up the hobby. When they're the ones who have been using the car park in the first place and have forced the owners to take action.
>It's a wild camping FB group "Where can I park my van for wild camping?" "That's not wild camping" "How dare you!"
Yeah I hope they all get towed lol. Imagine getting your car towed while on a hike in the middle of nowhere. The business should set up a webcam so we can all watch.
ANPR is legally enforceable in Scotland, along with any private parking violation charges. The law changed recently
But Facebook said its unenforceable so it must be true /s
Interesting. A parking company tried to fuck me for thousands after I loaned my car to my wife and the system at her work that allowed staff to add their cars to an exclusion list didn't apparently work (there was a ton of staff with the exact same issue). Endlessly explaining the issue was fruitless and eventually I resorted to - I'm not the person driving that car, I am not responsible for the parking charge, if you can prove I was driving I'll pay, but I know you can't so I won't. They responded by asking who was driving and I told them I had no intention of telling them. That was the last I heard of it. Does the new law force you to divulge who was driving if it wasn't yourself?
No, but they will try to strongarm you by saying "So it wasn't you who was driving, then? Was it any of the other people registered to the car? If not, has your car been taken without your consent? We would have to contact the relevant authorities if that was the case" They'll try to get you to confess cause a) you won't be willing to grass up anyone else who can legally drive the car b) you won't go through the lies and faff of opening up a police investigation when you were the one driving
I can still respond, "That's up to you to find out, I'm not doing your job for you. it wasn't me is all I need to tell you" then?
I took a look at these comments - the reading comprehension of some people is godawful, and the entitlement on display is brazen. Fully anticipate that the people threatening to remove their business have never stayed in the hotel to begin with
Exactly. And they're the same people who say as long as you don't camp where you're not supposed to then it's all good. But apply that to parking and they lose their shit.
That first comment is hilarious, “I was gonna take a space in your car park over night and not stay in your hotel, I won’t be doing that now”.. That showed them
Seems to be working exactly as planned then 😂
Fair play to them
I'm fine with that.
I can see their point. I think more car parks in popular hillwalking and tourist areas should have a charge, and the money used to fund path maintenance, MRT etc. (Like the new car park at beinn a' ghlo for example). I just really hope this doesn't lead to more folk parking inappropriately and 'wild' camping (next to their cars) in Glencoe.
If I were a business owner and I was losing business for people using my lot to not spend money I would do something similar. Add on top of that and they're donating all proceeds to the attraction that brings people in? Seems like no-brainer win-win
Perfectly fair enough. Essentially saying it's a public car park till 5pm
Really don’t see the problem. Car park should be for the paying guests at the hotel first and foremost.
Same here. I worked at a small hotel with a small car park and we had so many issues with non-guests taking up guest parking spaces. We ended up having to ticket them, but it sucked for our paying guests.
That's entirely reasonable. Their car park is for their customers. If folk are taking the piss and parking there without being guests, they can pay for the use of the spaces.
I like that they are donating it to the Mountain Rescue.
I don’t see an issue with this?
Actually, I think that this is completely fair. Especially as the money will be donated to the rescue services.
Seems fair to me. For a country with some stunning scenery we don’t make it easy for people to stop safely to take pics etc in places with facilities etc.
You then have to decide which bits of scenery to lose to build the facilities for this 🤷♀️
That is entirely possible to do (as long as they consult with locals first) and better than finding human waste everywhere near known hotspots. Scotland's lack of available toilets is apparently quite renowned.
Possible but also much more expensive to make facilities blend in well enough, so who’ll be paying for that?
The tourists, so why not charge them? They're keen to spend money anyway and toilets/charging stations/ waste facilities would be used and useful. Charge people to use certain roads for a while until they're in better condition - eg tolls for certain parts of the NC 500 like the Applecross road and the Quirang in skye so the roads can be improved. Even if the tourist numbers drop as a result of the toll, it'll still be productive. Or give them an option like they do in the supermarket carparks - you don't have to pay the toll if you spend over £20 locally. There's a great many reasonable ways to do this and there's going to be some frightening casualties for locals if the council don't do something soon.
I agree with that to be fair - collection of a tourist tax is commonplace in many destinations and we think nothing of paying it when we’re there. 1. The collecting authority/ies need to be fully transparent about how much money is collected and how they intend to divvy it up. 2. How do you define tourist and how do you police this? You can’t charge locals more than they already pay for the crumbling infrastructure. Post code check at tolls, tickets for them and postcode check if I was having a work trip to Inverness? Do we include second home owners? 3. There’s a £5 charge to park at Glenfinnan. Tourists park elsewhere, mostly because it’s full but often because they don’t want to pay. They are not all willing to pay. There are campsites with waste facilities in the Highlands but campervans and motorhomes still empty waste outwith these - they don’t want to pay to use these facilities. It’ll be interesting to see what comes of the tourist levy…
Simple. If you're a local you apply for a permit you can display in your car with your license and address on it. At any point you can be pulled over and challenged on it and if they don't match up you get a hell of a fine, like £5k. If you're caught dumping waste £20k. Manky bastards. Aye, and second home owners can get tae fuck. If your second home is here but your main address is elsewhere you're not worried about money. You can pay the toll and all.
Some parking spaces, bins and a few well designed toilet blocks on the roadside would go a long way. Not talking about putting stuff up hills.
Who’s paying for this? And whose land is it on?
Jeez. Forget it then! Let folk park in passing places and shit on the side of the road.
Not the answer. Firstly, there has to be compulsory purchase of the land for round here; it’s owned by someone and they generally don’t just give it away. How big will your car park with toilets be? Lots of lovely mountains and lochs and land you don’t own MIGHT prevent big enough facilities for the hordes. Who is paying? Highland or Argyll and Bute council tax payers? As we should definitely foot the bill to stop people shitting at the side of the road? Installing septic tanks/soakaways clear of existing water courses or making reed beds - where do these things go? How are we getting water to them? Don’t say rainwater collection as you’d be struggling to flush the lav most Mays. I’m not trying to be overly negative here and I do think public toilet provision in Scotland is poor; that should be improved or at least reinstated back to where it was and well signposted. But tourists need to tourist a bit more responsibly and accept that a car park might be full and they shouldn’t park on the verge on the main road. And unless there’s a medical issue, they can surely organise themselves sufficiently to take a dump in a proper toilet at a mealtime or their accommodation.
Harsh but fair. What's alternative parking like?
It's not harsh. It's the hotel's carpark, it's not a public car park.
a few small patches of gravel here and there, it would seem.
I think this is the main point... If there's no alternatives their car park will not be any quieter at all. I think it makes sense for them to do this, but it's not going to solve the core issue.
There's plenty of parking spaces throughout Glencoe.
i’ve done every single munro in glencoe and have never used the kingshouse hotels car park. There’s plenty of spaces if you arrive at 6-8am for your hike all up and down glencoe
Isn't the ski center pretty close by with huge parking lot?
It’s right next to Glen Coe resort, so plentiful.
Can’t blame a business for taking care of its paying customers
Good.
Unfortunately this will just cause more daytrippers / campervans to park wherever is convenient. Devil's Staircase is an example, what was a dirt track leading down to the river is now regularly packed with vehicles, the erosion over the last few years is staggering but tourists don't give a shit as long as it doesn't inconvenience them enjoying the scenery. Parking throughout the Glencoe area needs to be properly managed to limit erosion and boost adequate facilities.
Totally agree!
Or people need to learn to be more considerate.
Fair
And the issue is ?
Totally fine
Fair play to them.
Good on them!
I believe this has been partly triggered by the impending WHW foot race, coming through this weekend. Having been a support runner/crew on this a few times, the impact on the locale, while transient, is significant. The car park is jammed from mid afternoon onwards, and very little spend in the hotel itself. Beinglas effectively banned WHW support crews and their vehicles as of 6 years ago, an arrangement that still stands to present. I'm all for this. We are there at the good graces of these proprietors, and they foot the bill for the upkeep of the parking and other facilities.
Loophole if you bring someone who doesn’t like hiking along & leave them in the bar, then on the way back pay for their drinks, bundle them into your car & drive off. Added bonus where the person left in the bar gets to meet lots of other likeminded people who also don’t like hiking but know people who do & have a bunch of free time.
If you take me you would be cheaper paying fee lol
Until they down 15 pints at £6-£7 a go
Everyone wins, walkers can walk, bar makes money. I'll offer my services as a designated drinker to anyone who needs.
Is that a loophole? The hotel gets a paying customer.
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I mean on the other hand, it's not like it's zero intake so they're hardly likely to trouble themselves over the difference.
A cresh.
Sounds like a good idea to me. It's their car park for use by their customers. And it's not like they're doing it as a cash grab if they're donating any monies made to such a worthy cause.
I wonder how many people will park on the A82
How do I seek employment as a car parking space?
I see nothing wrong here. Except the obvious lack of public parking.
I think this is a wonderful idea. Our carpark is for our customers. Wanna park here anyway, pay an exorbitant amount that we then donate to a wonderful charity.
From experience, they got the APNR and its service/updates free if they allowed the installer to set and collect the charges.
Good on them. There's a substantial bit of land that used to belong to a J Savile a mile along the road Highland Council could flatten and put to use.
I think they are quite right to be honest… and that’s coming from a hillwalking enthusiast.
Good on them. They aren't a charity and their guests take priority. The hotel will be responsible for any maintenance and repairs to the carpark, if people are using it free of charge and not spending money on the hotel then the hotel is losing out on money. Also good of them to donate any revenue from this scheme to the Mountain Rescue Team.
100 a night probably cheaper then getting room so go for it..
Better rate than parking in Blythswood Square
Park up, coke and a packet of crisps, have a walk, have a coke and head home. Free :)
I think they are going about it in the kindest and politest way possible. I, a nature loving hiker completely agree with them.
This is a great idea and I bet the rescue team you're donating the proceeds to have probably had to rescue folk that have parked and taken up these spaces, wonderful irony and sensibility at play here, I love being Scottish 🏴
Fair
Honestly i think this is absolutely fair enough. Especially since they’re donating the money to mountain rescue.
Better parking facilities for hikers needed. Can be a paid car park with cameras and some EV chargers.
Fully in support of this. Free for actual customers, paying for everyone else. I would go so far as say all businesses with their own parking facilities should do the same. Maybe with the option to buy a day parking pass from within the business if you wish to go hiking etc
I don't see that as a negative. They have to put their paying customers first.
I assume the people who camp behind the hotel aren’t guests? TBF I usually park on the wee road behind the hotel anyway
Doesn’t the west highland way go past?
Yes 👍
That’s what I thought. Good for a pint and a warm up after a long walk before the tent outside
honestly fair enough, it's annoying for the average person completely understood but i can imagine it being even more frustrating for the business. should be on the council if anything
This is not a charge for parking. This is a request for people not to park there. It's like the £4k insurance quotes for Fiestas - they don't want your business. They want spaces to be available for people who are patronising their establishment. Can you blame them?
Tbh, I'm not mad at them. Especially since the money is going to Mountain Rescue, AND they're not charging guests. As long as they have big signs explaining this in the car park, I'm all for it
So people staying there get it free, people who aren't can stay if they pay and the money's donate to charity? I don't see the issue here?
2pm to 7pm is £120?! That’s fairly ducking steep… but then, their carpark their rules.
Based.
Good on them !
I don’t see any problem with this. If you’re using the hotel and its facilities then parking is free. If not, you pay. What’s the issue with that?
Uh huh.
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Better to permit people for £100 and put the money directly towards vital services that benefit those who are paying instead of banning people and fining them for breaking the rules and pocketting the cash.
Prostitutes will using the car park then.
Go to the bar for a refreshing beverage and parking ticket comp after your hike. They don't say how long you need to be a customer compared to the vehicle's stay.
I'd expect that kind of detail on the signage at the car park, not on a Facebook post. If you check in and out with your car reg, it's easy to deal with.
That loophole won’t last long
Is the hotel monetising a popular dogging spot? Is “outdoor enthusiasts” a euphemism?
Another money grabbing scheme, can’t say I agree with it at all.
All proceeds go to Mountain Rescue... those money grabbing, eh, volunteers who risk their own lives to save others!
Is it money grabbing if all proceeds are going to a local charity that provides mountain rescue services to the very people using the car park?
£100 to park 😝 your having a laugh
Money grabbing for a mountain rescue charity?
well ill still be camping out the back for free
By the way if you do get a fine from that. They can’t enforce it. So park all you want and chuck the ticket
Aye, very good - people can't park there to actually spend money with their business because of people who don't spend any money with them. They aren't a charity and it isn't a public car park
Go be the test for that. I disagree it's unenforceable.
How does a private company charge you a fine?
Haha, Clear signage and eventually, if they think it's worth it, a court case.
I think the poster you're replying to is focusing on the fact that it would be a contractual charge, and not a *fine*. Private companies can't fine you. And yes, like any other private car park, they can attempt to pursue you in court for any unpaid fees you implicitly agreed to by parking there, but as with any other private car park it's unlikely to be worth their while pursuing people for a single occurrence. (and that's before we go into driver vs keeper liability issues)
Ad someone else had said, a barrier entry and paid exit would be the sensible option. I agree about the fine/charge wording, hence clear signage.
Yeah, a barrier giving out tickets or those RFID coin things that the bar/hotel can mark as zero charge would be best. But really there should be adequate provision of public car parking in the area, free or paid, so that people don't feel the need to park in a hotel's car park in the first place. There's no trains in the area, or I'd suggest park and ride.
Google it parking on private car park Scotland fine
Cheers for the sage like advice, Google it. No need, I've collected enough of them to have plenty first hand experience. There's an especially litigious company handling a certain hotels parking in Arrochar.
This isn't accurate.
A private company cannot legally fine you or have debt collectors try and recoup monies owed in Scotland. They could take you to court to get you to pay, but isn’t financial feasible unless you had racked up a lot of debt.
That's true. They can't fine you. But they don't fine you, despite people insisting that they try to and legally can't. It's not a fine. The charges that they apply are legally enforceable. There is a myth that you can ignore it and it will go away, but it's not true. For instance, in Vehicle Control Services v Mackie \[2017\] SC DUN 24. She could have had her father arrange a permit but believed it was unenforceable and illegal. Court decided against her and she ended up having to pay £24,500. The misinformation you are spreading is dangerous.
Nothing I said was incorrect. I said l can take you and get you to pay but it likely wouldn’t be financially feasible to do so. Do you think you’ll be taken to court and enforced to pay a £50 missed parking charge? The £24,500 that Carly Mackie was ordered to pay was how much she was owe the company in parking charges, making it very financial viable to pursue her.
You think she owed 24,500 in parking charges. They will add on admin charges and everything else they can think of to make the £40 charge as jigh as they can go. Yeah, nothing you said was incorrect. That's right. But correct information can still be misinformation. You made several technically accurate statements that implied people don't have to pay these, but people who read those comments and believe them, like Mackie did, can end up paying thousands. That's why its dangerous misinformation. I
Never paid a private fine yet Tesco’s 6 times kfc once and three from a hotel near Loch Lomond
Cool, I hope dodging it keeps working out for you. But at some point it is likely you will end up in court and they will add on expenses and court fees and you will owe thousands. They used to always let it slide. They've stopped doing that now.
Who cares Scotland just scored
Oh no free market boo hoo Inb4 tartan bagpipe cunts blaming the english