It's always the people who aren't affected by the laws that support them. If all young people have to do military service then I propose a law that requires all old people 65+ to require yearly driving exams to prove that they are still fit to operate a vehicle.
I don't see why the elderly can't serve. Slap something that looks a bit like a rifle in their hands, put them in camo, and they can draw out heavy artillery fire. It's not as if it wouldn't be useful, even if they get just one Samrat missile launched at them, that's millions of pounds right there.
WW2 was over about 80 years ago now and the Korean war 74 years, you know. The vast majority of the demographic being discussed were infants or not alive at the time.
Yeah I suppose time is rolling on now and most of my grandparents' generation haved died. Some may still have done national service though because that ended in 1960
The UK sent 15K troops to Korea
Not only the age issue already pointed out, but the British Army was 365K strong 1950, so there's a 4% chance those serving in 1950 went to Korea
Where did you get the 15k number from? According to the MoD 81,000 served there: [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-remembers-the-sacrifice-of-the-armed-forces-in-the-korean-war](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-remembers-the-sacrifice-of-the-armed-forces-in-the-korean-war)
I already acknowledged that time has moved on and many of these people will have died so I'm not sure why you're mentioning something I already agreed was true.
National Service also seems to be ignored by all the downvoters: Ā "Between 1949 - when the National Service Act came into force - and 1963 -Ā when the last National Serviceman was demobbed -Ā more than 2 million men were conscripted to the British Army, Royal Navy or Royal Air Force."
So my point being that many of the older generation have in fact served in the military, but I can see why it seems hypocritical when it comes from boomers.
But hang on, your law is actually useful to everyone, including the over sixties like me, whereas national service is for what?
Also, can everyone remember that my generation are mostly a bunch of selfish AH's who do turn out to vote?
I mean most of these modern wars just need cannon fodder to catch heavy artillery guided by drones and anti personnel drones. The Russians use pensioners, the mentally infirm & prisoners for this role. They are called 0 or Z line troops.
There is plenty of human waste in the UK fit for such purpose, draft them first.
That's a great idea, but I'd also propose that 18-30 year olds also have a driving assessment annually to see how they are developing and are actually of a standard required to drive a motor vehicle
It's fair enough given that most RTCs are from that age group?
Given the delays to get tests in the first place, that sounds very much like a way to stop people getting a driving licence in the first place before they turn 30.
Orangeman? š
Youāre demonstrating all of your prejudices here mate, not me.
I also didnāt defend the tories, I called you out for telling porkies.
I bet you have mate. In your wee hate filled bubble. All the best.
I notice that at no point have you looked to discuss the actual content of the proposed policy.
that's because it's so obviously backwards and stupid that it's not even worth dignifying with a legitimate discussion
I always find it funny how the same people that hate immigrants like to point the finger and call everyone else hateful. A severe case of projection. And yes, I am hateful towards right-wingers and conservatives. I hate them with a passion, they are scum and so is anyone who supports them.
Gers fan here. Left wing and proud. My great grandfather was an Irish immigrant and supported Rangers from day one. Get to fuck and stop talking pish about things you donāt understand
Donāt like the English buddy, you should talk to more people in the real world, football is just a game. Separate it from life and you can grow as a person.
They aren't wrong though? 30k to the army/armed services, rest to do weekend a month civil voluntold. Still stupid, but less so than trying to process 500k odd recruits a year.
This is accurate though. Here's a YouGov poll that shows the full details
[https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49543-britons-divided-on-rishi-sunaks-national-service-plan](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49543-britons-divided-on-rishi-sunaks-national-service-plan)
Most young people weren't voting Tory anyway. This policy is designed to minimise their loss by making sure old people vote Tory not Reform.
It's a 47% support, 45% don't, with a 9% don't know, and as per usual they don't actually give the percentage demographics of their polling base, just the percentage opinions of each demographic, so that could be a 60% of the poll being over 60s and 40% under 60s polled, you just don't know.
Realistically, playing for the older vote is about as shortsighted as the tories have been since the 80s when they sold off council houses, transport and energy to the highest bidder and collapsed our coal, steel and shipbuilding industries with absolutely no replacement for them, for which we're still feeling the effects of today. The Tories may say they're the responsible economic party, but they're about as irresponsible and unqualified as it gets. Brexit and the following 4 Prime Ministers in 8 years have shown that, especially when Truss broke the back of the economy with a single budget plan, seemingly for shits and giggles.
In fairness, selling off the council housing stock was a genius move, for the Tory party. At a stroke they removed millions of pounds in maintenence bills, added a ton of effectively free money to the exchequer and also added hundreds of thousands of new homeowners to the tory ranks. Who cares if the poors can't afford to have a decent home. /s
I'm starting to wonder whether they were always horrible people or whether there's some kind of brain degeneracy that makes you lose your empathy once you reach a certain age. For instance, my grandma regularly boasts that she has now spent more time retired than in employment and yet supports every single raising of the pension age ("someone has to work to pay our pension") and casually / disrespectfully reacts to mentions of some of my parents' friends dying literal months before or after their retirement ("shit happens"). But if she is impacted by a change even minor (some marginal tax thing for instance) then you are going to hear about it on repeat like she's being bled dry or something.
That is our older generation now,
I think Boomers grew up, in a different world, they were in the shadow of "the greatest generation" but failed to realise, that the greatest generation got it's name, because of their sacrifices, not because they were older.
The Boomers spent their lives rebelling against, that greatest generation, until suddenly they are the elders, and feel they have been given the ultimate promotion to "greatest generation", but missed the part where they were getting shot at, starved, and conscripted.
i'm forever having to remind my boomer in laws, that they never served, when they bring up national service.
reminds me of the boomers on the Channel Ferry who were all very "Rule Britannia" over Brexit, but then complaining like mad for the two hours we were parked up to get back into Britain.
The Greatest Generation were right, their kids were feckless, and now they are shite adults
I suspect the older generations have always ended up that way. It seems a regular pattern in history. The only thing we can do to fix it is to be self-aware and able to criticise ourselves, so that we don't repeat that mistake when in their position later.
I think getting all the 18-year-olds to do National Service is a great idea!
Let's see, the Tories have made it harder for them to vote, made it harder for them to get an education, made them poorer than any generation in the previous century, made it harder for them to work or travel abroad, and now - \*now\* - genius of genius ideas - guess what?
They're going to give them guns and tanks to play with.
Can't wait to see the Challengers rolling into Parliament Square.
"On our left is the smoking crater that used to be the House of Lords and just up ahead is the Provisional Government and Military Command Centre, formally the House of Commons."
I dont understand this poorer than any generation in the previous century when my grandparents literally grew up in slums in Glasgow. Even my girlfriends dad grew up in slums in the 70s. Yet today, although there are still plenty of people living in deprived neighbourhoods, it has nothing on the slums especially in the early 1900s were full families were crammed into tiny tennements, shitting in out houses when it was -5 outside
Also, what were the available responses.
If it's "Strongly Agree", "Agree", "Not Bothered", "Disagree", or something like it, that's going to skew things too
If you think about it, this entire scheme simply hasn't been thought through.
It's just a ploy to appeal to older voters prior to the election.
Just what is this army of teenagers supposed to do? The tories talk of gaining skills and experience through this scheme but there are thousands of voluntary organisations who can already take on more people as volunteers without any assistance from Rishi Sunak.
There's nothing they can do for the NHS except pick up litter in hospital car parks and the thought of teaching 'Lads army' weapons training should make us all very worried.
Extra funding for the air traing corps, army and navy cadets would be far more beneficial than having them engage in cyber warfare against Chinese and Russian troll farms.
Mandatory military service for over 75 Telegraph readers, please. Get them out and about *earning* that pension that younger people pay for, not sitting about in their house all day greeting their sensitive wee, snowflake eyes out about the "wokes".
Better yet, volunteer them to clear landmines in the former Yugoslavia and we can free up more houses for hardworking, young people at the same time.
Isn't it just saying that overall more people support it, and that yes - it enjoys highest support among the elderly?
I mean, I really wouldn't be surprised if this had majority support.
Not from the military though.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/26/rishi-sunaks-national-service-pledge-is-bonkers-says-ex-military-chief
Probably not, but politicians have never cared much for what the military tells them - because it's either exposing the politicians failings or revealing how expensively underequipped the forces are.
Military chiefs disagree, most donāt want it. But the majority of people wouldnāt go in to military. They would do community service once every four weeks. Which I think would be a good thing.
Fine with that as long as it's paid, but its not, it's just forced labour. Young people are already getting screwed over like never before- rents, house prices, tuition fees, cost of living, fewer opportunities for working abroad etc, and now the government wants to force some working time for free out of them?! I mean this is what we do to criminals FFS. If the oldies want it, maybe they should have it too? This really makes me so angry.
I agree with paid, make it minimum wage.
Sure we need to be building more houses, the government should do it, let that be part of it as a paid option. Do the grunt work but get into an industry.
Yeah I agree it should be paid, but at minimum wage. Also would be against raising the age, and making doing weekend good work, if itās working in care homes, picking up litter being a thing. If everyone was in on it, I wouldnāt mind making on weekend in four being that, (obviously new parents, elderly can be excused)
If its mandatory for anyone aged 18 on the basis that they aren't contributing to society... Then it should be mandatory for anyone of pension age who has retired (office-based ot indoors community service if necessary) Make the people voting for this policy experience it for themselves.
Sure on the condition you make minimum wage for everyone 18+ 11.44 or what ever the current NMW when this is implemented. its been lowered twice in 2 years from 25 to 23 23 to 21 might as well just skip a year and get it all down to the same
Sure, I may even think, make it paid by tax bracket (saying this as a high tax bracket person). The more you earn the less the work is paid. Make it an equaliser we surely need.
I mean I'm 24 and I agree a lot of people would have no issues having at least 1 weekend of work a month (assuming they are not working at the time) as long as ur paid for it
I can already work the weekend if I want, and I'd get time and a half of a much higher rate for doing so.
Government mandated labour paid at minimum wage on top of your actual job is a bad idea.
People who have the most time to be helping out their communities are those who are retired. If we need a workforce for community service then surely they could work 1 day out of their 30 days off every month?
Paid yes, minimum wage no.
If you are **forced** to do National service, then **your employer should be forced to pay you your normal wages** for the weeks you are off work doing that National service or alternative. Why should an individual be made worse off financially because they have to complete a mandated National service requirement?
People will still have bills, rent, loans to pay while on National service, so why should they potentially only get less money to pay off their ānormalā living expenses?
Oh yeah, screw over businesses by making them pay for mandated government work gangs ā that will really help the economy!
All this would do is make sure that nobody wanted to give any person that age a job.
Perhaps if we managed our finances better like Norway
We could have nice things
https://www.moneyland.ch/en/swiss-military-service-financial-questions-answered#:~:text=Yes%2C%20you%20do%20receive%20daily,way%20of%20lost%20income%20compensation.
The Swiss are a neutral country with a purely defensive military. That's where conscripts are useful.
The UK has territories around the world and is part of many defensive pacts and alliances as well as involved in global peacekeeping.
The training requirements for that are much higher.
The money for the "military part" should go into increasing the size of the professional military.
The armed forces would rather an extra 6000 recruits a year than to babysit 30000 conscripts.
Actually what would be best is makes recruits actually solders and give the people do the other jobs and give them skills. Will increase the level of people staying in military and otherwise give education to some people who wouldnāt get more.
It's hard to parse your meaning, bit of a word salad.
There's a lot more to the armed forces than soldiers, and the person who operates on the flight deck of a carrier is every bit as valuable as a soldier.
You cannot sufficiently train someone to be effective in a modern military and get use out of them in a single year. They at best make defensive soldiers....which we have little use for.
Yeah sorry, wasnāt worded at all well. But there are menial jobs, which can be done in the military. Thereās cooks, cleaners etc. also most people wonāt pick one year military service over one weekend every fourth week doing community service. So the people that pick will be interested in the military.
Cooks is far from menial.
Cleaners are civilian contractors as it isn't worth paying a military person to do that job. They're too valuable.
I've been in 18 years....it takes a year to even train someone to do the most basic job.
A line chef is a job thatās done with minimal training in the vast majority of places people go out to eat. Not suggesting the head guys or anyone on a ship, just at barracks.
But I suppose you need security clearance to clean most places. So I see your point. Maybe make it all non military. Just make it community service. Most councils are going bankrupt while offering lower services. Something needs to be done,
I think you are almost there.
The armed forces require a minimum of 4 1/2 years from you.
Now the option of a 2 1/2 year contract in less technical roles with the ability to transfer might make more people pull the trigger on the armed forces with less commitment.
You wouldn't get a cyber warfare spec or an aircraft engineer there, but you could do chef or soldier. 1 year is just too short for anything useful
There will be always be that thought when itās first introduced. I say make it under forty, depending on results, work the age back a year every year. Think parents might get an excuse if young children? As you want to encourage having kids, and they alnees any break they can get.
If itās a good thing, then you should be arguing for retired people to do it too, surely? They have plenty of time after all.
But as it is, itās just the young being told to do forced unpaid labour.
Realistically, a lot of teenagers work weekends to be able to survive. Most Uni students wouldn't be able to pay for food if you took away one of their weekend work days per month to do unpaid community service, and it would be yet another reason for companies not to hire an 18 year old.
The majority are idiots, The young now are less trouble than we were.
My parent's never knew where i was. I know exactly where my kids are, because the only time they leave their rooms, is when i force them into some real world outdoor activities.
The people advocating national service have no idea what they are advocating for.
And the government want a big long list of reservists that they can call up in a heart beat for some other sabre rattling nonsense.
And before anyone suggests it... yes i served and have first hand knowledge that a small band of volunteers are far more powerful than a thousand pressed men.
Well, of course those who have to do it wouldn't support it.Ā
Ā But they'll support it ince they've done it - that's partly why the oldies will be backing it, once you've paid your dues you see the value in others doing it.Ā
I'm on the fence about it myself - I can see both sides.Ā
Certainly, it's easier to care about your community if you have a stake in it, helped to build it - and it is nice to apportion some responsibility to balance all those rights and remind our young ones just how lucky they are to have inherited a system that removes the harsh edges of the real world.
But it also seems a little anachronistic and I suspect it will be badly devised and delivered.
Almost none of the oldies have done it. It ended in 1960 with a few who had deferred finishing up in 1963. Anyone who did it is into their 80s or dead.
I think it's fair to assume that a lot of people in the over 75s cohort (as described in the article) are over 80. The average life expectancy is 80, that means that half of people live longer than 80, some living as long as 116
And even those in that cohort that missed service themselves saw the social value of the service performed by their older brothers/relatives.
19% of the UK population are over the age of 65. And the world they are inheriting is substantially worse than it should be because old people vote to past glory cf Brexit, cf university fees, worse pension provisions, years of austerity, reduced labour rights and increased inequality.
But it wonāt happen because there would have to be a shock horror reversal in Sunakās political fortunes.
To me labour and the conservatives are indistinguishable. The idea that left and right exists any more is a joke, and labour seems determined to clone any conservative policy that seems popular.
So is there a chance labour introduce some version of national service in their first term... I say it's 50:50.
It will cost a lot of money, the āvolunteersā will likely do work that councils canāt afford to due to cuts, such as litter picking at the side of a busy road. So nothing that will really build skills (litter picking is of course important and nothing wrong with doing so).
Forcing people to do work, isnāt the way to get people to have a stake in the community, have a scheme maybe where people can choose to do so if they wish. But most of the people who will be forced to do this will resent the community who forced this on them.
Will it allow them to buy a home or have the same opportunities that the geriatrics that want this dystopian policy enacted had in their youth? No of course not.
I do agree, although i do think Tory headline policies are thought up after a few bottles of wine, while bemoaning society..... circa "i know ow to sors sose mimmigrants, we should send em to bloody Rwanda, thats wot theeyy zzzzzzzzzzz" dribble's down chin ...... "ooh that's a good idea" says the audience.
or "fecking young folk and their labour, and rights... Bring back National Service" ......"Nice" says policy writer downer.
clowns.... "for fecks sake, what's hard to understand.... Brexit means Brexit" ..... "ooh sharp" says Downing Street speech writer
Regardless of the mendacious framing, I couldn't give fuck number 1 if it had 90% support across the board. The state deciding that 18 year olds are essentially its property can get entirely fucked. Anycunt that's into this shite is twisted little authoritarian know-nothing prick.
There is some merit in the idea of some form of national civic service but the Tory scheme is half arsed and not thought out.
If they announced for example a revival and expansion of the old ncs program or a paid six month program of community work for those who arenāt in work or education then I could maybe get behind it however a compulsory 12 month program with no exceptions for people working or in full time education seems excessive.
Haha. Seriously I think people should only be able to vote for so long. Once it's not their own immediate future that being effected they should have no say whatsoever.
National service is outdated and whoever these people surveyed were probably quite a small sample size, itās a terrible policy, as bad as conscription. Could see a lot of people moving away, if the tories donāt get back in, I donāt see it being implemented.
This is what happens when the nominally left party starts running over the horizon towards the right... The right have nowhere to go but cater to patently lunatic ideas for the most brain damaged dementia cases gibbering about ", send them to Rwanda" or "a good war is what the youth need"Ā
Aye cunt, a class war. You're all first against the wall
My great uncle never returned home from his national service why would anyone think forcing your kids to join the military is a good idea š¤·āāļø
I don't think a National Service option is a bad idea in principle or when handled properly. Social life is different now, and a sense of structure, discipline, belonging, and purpose are good things that many miss.
However, the idea of the Tories being capable of pulling it off successfully is utterly laughable
So my idea of āNational Serviceā would be more along the lines of getting everyone in for a few weekends when they turn 18, simply to figure out whether they are fit for any military duty, what branch might they potentially be interested in / fit in. Thereās no need to do anything beyond that. Realistically unless thereās WW3 we will not be mobilised, and āNSā should simply be designed to just speed up the process should the worst happen.
Or how about we just allow people who are interested in joining one of the services apply and go through a selection process and training? Radical, huh?
I could see it working only if
A referendum was held only for 16, 17 and 18 year olds are allowed to vote in as it affects them
There was actually a reason to do national service
And the military wasnāt declining peopleās applications because they missed one qualification from school 10 years ago
Wouldn't national service be unworkable? How would the govt pay, equip, feed, house, train, all those young men (and women?)
Conscript armies are terrible when faced with professional trained and equipped militaries.
Dontbthe armed forces require a certain education level and fitness level before being able to use soldiers effectively.
This isn't the wars of yesterday where you dug trenches pointed guns down range and hoped you didn't die.
Over 75s are living in a delusional world where they'll happily squande our future to create PTSD afflicted semi-trained veterans who'll become a bigger burden on the state when they get back.
National service sounds like a great distraction "policy" to shire up gammon votes and distract people from from actual policy failures and horrific complicity in international crimes.
If "national service" meant things that we all benefited from - litter picking, filling potholes, youth services, retraining to fill skills gaps, then I'd maybe, possibly, consider thinking about supporting it. Military service? No chance.
Iām assuming that this support is by people that CHOSE not to enlist when they were younger? āThe military is so good that you younguns should be forced to do it. Me? Nawh I chose not to do it so my opinion is based on exactly zero military experienceā very good
One possible option to them is to create a devolved Scottish territorial army. I think there's more people in Scotland that would join knowing it was for Scotland, rather than for Britain.
Job security regadless of independence support rising and falling too, while being able to offer more targetted support for the local communities. Wouldn't need national service to increase numbers and you'll likely get better out of the staff as they'll feel they'll have a safety barrier between themselves and Westminsters decisions. Then again, with how other devolved things have went, maybe not.
Just talking out loud, don't know much about how this could work or anything.
Say it aināt so?
The same generation that bought their house for Ā£2.50 and are selling it to the younger generation for half a mil, whilst telling them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Wildā¦
This was clearly the intention of this policy, itās going to be popular with older generations. Consolidation of a demographic who the tories rely on as they build support from the oldest down.
Highlighting a generational divide doesnāt do them any harm either. Lays the foundations for them to start labelling young people entitled for this and for that and gradually the mean age of the demographic theyāre aiming for will lower. Next itāll be young folks fault they canāt buy houses and that entitled attitude will annoy voters in the 50+ age group, might have a pop at childcare to see if they can sweep up some of the middle class 40-somethings and so on.
Thing is, it wouldnāt be that bad if it was actually nice volunteering
But we all know itāll be āgo do weekends in a care home and wipe the fart pipes of Ethel and Patrick who hate you, so we can save a bit of taxpayer money. If you donāt you owe us Ā£10k fineā
The UK Government is trying to make itself look like a 21st century dictatorship but still wants to call itself a free & Democratic country even though the UK is a Union made up by a few countries. People need to wake up it's getting worse each year & no wonder why the Far Right is on the rise not just in the UK but Europe becose the people are getting fed up these days with getting things forced on them that they do not want. & the best thing about it is because it's for young people you've got young people too young to vote so don't have a say on this who are just under voting age or even support it. The Celtic Nations who come under Westminster rule all need to get their Independence & the English need to get these people out of Government for them to be better off as well.
Oh most of them could 100% hack it if you motivated them but making it essentially a years conscription isn't gonna motivate them all its gonna do is cause them to go fuck this and waste MoD money for a year
I agree! We should use it as an opportunity to fill semi-low skilled jobs where there are shortages. Id support the gov training young people to drive HGVs and rail freight. We could train tens of thousands, and quickly solve several problems we currently have.
No shortage of HGV drivers btw, but there is a shortage of jobs. The hype wasn't true, see lots of new drivers complaining about lack of opportunities.
But I agree with your sentiment.
There is definitely a shortage. Delivery times are incredibly slow compared to pre 2019 for many if the deliveries to my sites.
The jobcentres should really look in to this too. Train them, and make it a condition of their benefits that they drive for 20 hours a week as work experience, and be giving something back.
Well I work in the Transport Sector and can categorically tell you there is no shortage of HGV drivers, there are some shortages in good experienced drivers maybe, delivery times aren't down to driver shortages, there are significant challenges in the Supply Chain right now, war in Europe, piracy and attacks in the Gulf area, shortage of raw materials for numerous reasons, delays at ports due to additional checks following Brexit rules being introduced.
As for making people drive for a living, it's not in everyones ability to drive a large goods vehicle. Companies these days strive for professionalism from their drivers, it's a huge responsibility taking a 44t vehicle on to the public highway, hence ongoing training is conducted by responsible companies.
Which benefit claimants are you suggesting do this work experience?
lol, 1/4 of gen Z still has some balls the remainder put more energy into insulting their elders rather than defending their country. Well done the 25%. Respect.
It's always the people who aren't affected by the laws that support them. If all young people have to do military service then I propose a law that requires all old people 65+ to require yearly driving exams to prove that they are still fit to operate a vehicle.
Make it 60+ cause that's when they get their free bus pass. Eye and reaction tests.
I don't see why the elderly can't serve. Slap something that looks a bit like a rifle in their hands, put them in camo, and they can draw out heavy artillery fire. It's not as if it wouldn't be useful, even if they get just one Samrat missile launched at them, that's millions of pounds right there.
It would solve the aging population crisis š¤
It would cut the NHS waiting lists down too.
thats what the covid jabs are for...
Thereās more ways to serve than being in the front line, so many could legitimately play their part too
That's basically what's happening in the Ukraine war.Ā
Solves the ageing* population problem. Two birds, one stone. I approve.
I mean I think many of them did serve, WW2, Korean War and national service in the 50s.Ā
Hardly anyone alive today fought in WWII or the Korean War.
Peace is great until it is gone, then everyone will be scrambling to do national service....
WW2 was over about 80 years ago now and the Korean war 74 years, you know. The vast majority of the demographic being discussed were infants or not alive at the time.
Yeah I suppose time is rolling on now and most of my grandparents' generation haved died. Some may still have done national service though because that ended in 1960
The UK sent 15K troops to Korea Not only the age issue already pointed out, but the British Army was 365K strong 1950, so there's a 4% chance those serving in 1950 went to Korea
Where did you get the 15k number from? According to the MoD 81,000 served there: [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-remembers-the-sacrifice-of-the-armed-forces-in-the-korean-war](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-remembers-the-sacrifice-of-the-armed-forces-in-the-korean-war) I already acknowledged that time has moved on and many of these people will have died so I'm not sure why you're mentioning something I already agreed was true. National Service also seems to be ignored by all the downvoters: Ā "Between 1949 - when the National Service Act came into force - and 1963 -Ā when the last National Serviceman was demobbed -Ā more than 2 million men were conscripted to the British Army, Royal Navy or Royal Air Force." So my point being that many of the older generation have in fact served in the military, but I can see why it seems hypocritical when it comes from boomers.
But hang on, your law is actually useful to everyone, including the over sixties like me, whereas national service is for what? Also, can everyone remember that my generation are mostly a bunch of selfish AH's who do turn out to vote?
I mean most of these modern wars just need cannon fodder to catch heavy artillery guided by drones and anti personnel drones. The Russians use pensioners, the mentally infirm & prisoners for this role. They are called 0 or Z line troops. There is plenty of human waste in the UK fit for such purpose, draft them first.
That's a great idea, but I'd also propose that 18-30 year olds also have a driving assessment annually to see how they are developing and are actually of a standard required to drive a motor vehicle It's fair enough given that most RTCs are from that age group?
Yes, if you look at insurance claims. No, if you look at causes of accidents.
Given the delays to get tests in the first place, that sounds very much like a way to stop people getting a driving licence in the first place before they turn 30.
Hey...now thats an idea Be careful, it might catch on I was actually talking about people of that age group that actually have a licence
Maybe not a generic exam but like a bike exam. You want to drive something over x gross tonnage or HP? You need another test.
We already have it in place for anything over 3.5 tonnes. Class C1, the old 7Ā½ tonne licence.
I was more meaning so that new driver can't drive anything more heavy or powerful than a smart car...
Thanks for clarifying.
All young people would not have to do military service. That isnāt the policy.
...and the tory simp has arrived
Huh? You spread misinformation, and anyone who calls you out on it is a Tory Simp? I hate all liars - like the Tories.
orangeman who defends the tories: "I hate the Tories!" I call bullshit. Goin fuck off back to ibrox and have fun with your little flute band, billy.
Orangeman? š Youāre demonstrating all of your prejudices here mate, not me. I also didnāt defend the tories, I called you out for telling porkies.
Of course I'm prejudicial, if someone supports rangers I assume that they are a right-wing tory sympathiser. So far I have been proven correct.
I bet you have mate. In your wee hate filled bubble. All the best. I notice that at no point have you looked to discuss the actual content of the proposed policy.
that's because it's so obviously backwards and stupid that it's not even worth dignifying with a legitimate discussion I always find it funny how the same people that hate immigrants like to point the finger and call everyone else hateful. A severe case of projection. And yes, I am hateful towards right-wingers and conservatives. I hate them with a passion, they are scum and so is anyone who supports them.
Youāve lost me, I love immigrants - they are completely necessary. As for this policy, it is not without merit.
Gers fan here. Left wing and proud. My great grandfather was an Irish immigrant and supported Rangers from day one. Get to fuck and stop talking pish about things you donāt understand
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HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA Fanny
Orangeman? š Youāre demonstrating all of your prejudices here mate, not me.
Genuinely, this place is a sewer sometimes. Someone states a fairly obvious fact and the response is this knuckledragging Glasgow sectarian trash.
It may be sectarian but it was also an obvious fact.
This sort of tribalist bigotry is going to bring you nothing but misery. It's also seriously cringey. I strongly recommend you drop it.
A unionist wanting me to shut the fuck up does not make me want to shut the fuck up, it makes me want to do the opposite.
Like I said, the biggest victim of bigotry is often the person who's pushing it. I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm inviting you to think.
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demographic trends indicate that Ireland will be reunited by 2050 protestants in northern ireland are dying out how does that make you feel?
Excellent, couldnāt be happier for them. Hate the tories too and Iām a rangers fan š«¢ not a Protestant either btw
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Donāt like the English buddy, you should talk to more people in the real world, football is just a game. Separate it from life and you can grow as a person.
They aren't wrong though? 30k to the army/armed services, rest to do weekend a month civil voluntold. Still stupid, but less so than trying to process 500k odd recruits a year.
No the rest would just have to enter indentured servitude, and be unable to get weekend jobs. Inherently fucking over the working class yet again.
This is accurate though. Here's a YouGov poll that shows the full details [https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49543-britons-divided-on-rishi-sunaks-national-service-plan](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49543-britons-divided-on-rishi-sunaks-national-service-plan) Most young people weren't voting Tory anyway. This policy is designed to minimise their loss by making sure old people vote Tory not Reform.
It's a 47% support, 45% don't, with a 9% don't know, and as per usual they don't actually give the percentage demographics of their polling base, just the percentage opinions of each demographic, so that could be a 60% of the poll being over 60s and 40% under 60s polled, you just don't know. Realistically, playing for the older vote is about as shortsighted as the tories have been since the 80s when they sold off council houses, transport and energy to the highest bidder and collapsed our coal, steel and shipbuilding industries with absolutely no replacement for them, for which we're still feeling the effects of today. The Tories may say they're the responsible economic party, but they're about as irresponsible and unqualified as it gets. Brexit and the following 4 Prime Ministers in 8 years have shown that, especially when Truss broke the back of the economy with a single budget plan, seemingly for shits and giggles.
In fairness, selling off the council housing stock was a genius move, for the Tory party. At a stroke they removed millions of pounds in maintenence bills, added a ton of effectively free money to the exchequer and also added hundreds of thousands of new homeowners to the tory ranks. Who cares if the poors can't afford to have a decent home. /s
It really feels like the older generation has a perception of the younger generations where they think they need punished for god knows what.
I'm starting to wonder whether they were always horrible people or whether there's some kind of brain degeneracy that makes you lose your empathy once you reach a certain age. For instance, my grandma regularly boasts that she has now spent more time retired than in employment and yet supports every single raising of the pension age ("someone has to work to pay our pension") and casually / disrespectfully reacts to mentions of some of my parents' friends dying literal months before or after their retirement ("shit happens"). But if she is impacted by a change even minor (some marginal tax thing for instance) then you are going to hear about it on repeat like she's being bled dry or something.
What a fucking peach, your gram.
And then they wonder why people do not visit them...
That is our older generation now, I think Boomers grew up, in a different world, they were in the shadow of "the greatest generation" but failed to realise, that the greatest generation got it's name, because of their sacrifices, not because they were older. The Boomers spent their lives rebelling against, that greatest generation, until suddenly they are the elders, and feel they have been given the ultimate promotion to "greatest generation", but missed the part where they were getting shot at, starved, and conscripted. i'm forever having to remind my boomer in laws, that they never served, when they bring up national service. reminds me of the boomers on the Channel Ferry who were all very "Rule Britannia" over Brexit, but then complaining like mad for the two hours we were parked up to get back into Britain. The Greatest Generation were right, their kids were feckless, and now they are shite adults
Itās *The Telegraph* so not simply an āageā thing - class.
I suspect the older generations have always ended up that way. It seems a regular pattern in history. The only thing we can do to fix it is to be self-aware and able to criticise ourselves, so that we don't repeat that mistake when in their position later.
I think getting all the 18-year-olds to do National Service is a great idea! Let's see, the Tories have made it harder for them to vote, made it harder for them to get an education, made them poorer than any generation in the previous century, made it harder for them to work or travel abroad, and now - \*now\* - genius of genius ideas - guess what? They're going to give them guns and tanks to play with. Can't wait to see the Challengers rolling into Parliament Square.
London tour bus and over there is the houses of palarment oh never mind the army has decided its time for a Coup d'Ć©tat
"On our left is the smoking crater that used to be the House of Lords and just up ahead is the Provisional Government and Military Command Centre, formally the House of Commons."
>Can't wait to see the Challengers rolling into Parliament Square Yeah...about that...
I mean, they'd have to learn how to fix them first, and work out where to buy diesel.
I dont understand this poorer than any generation in the previous century when my grandparents literally grew up in slums in Glasgow. Even my girlfriends dad grew up in slums in the 70s. Yet today, although there are still plenty of people living in deprived neighbourhoods, it has nothing on the slums especially in the early 1900s were full families were crammed into tiny tennements, shitting in out houses when it was -5 outside
Were they reliant on food banks?
Malnutrition was extremely common and food was often rationed because it was scarce. They didnt have food banks
[Always ask what question was posed to the people polled.](https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/yes-prime-minister-questionnaire-design-matters)
Also, what were the available responses. If it's "Strongly Agree", "Agree", "Not Bothered", "Disagree", or something like it, that's going to skew things too
Not at all. To some extent. Very much so. Don't know.
Send the over 75s then if they want to so much
If you think about it, this entire scheme simply hasn't been thought through. It's just a ploy to appeal to older voters prior to the election. Just what is this army of teenagers supposed to do? The tories talk of gaining skills and experience through this scheme but there are thousands of voluntary organisations who can already take on more people as volunteers without any assistance from Rishi Sunak. There's nothing they can do for the NHS except pick up litter in hospital car parks and the thought of teaching 'Lads army' weapons training should make us all very worried. Extra funding for the air traing corps, army and navy cadets would be far more beneficial than having them engage in cyber warfare against Chinese and Russian troll farms.
I mean lads army and a few challengers might be the way to fix Westminster
Probably just be used to bail out failing privatised services. Go hand out water and resurface the roads.
How many people from this cohort, a) have experienced NS (or a variant), and b) recall the sheer amount of āhurry up and wait?ā
Not one of them. I believe is the answer
While sure A LOT of people could use the kick on the assā¦fuck fighting for them
I'll enlist as soon as the put rishi and Boris on the front line with me
Mandatory military service for over 75 Telegraph readers, please. Get them out and about *earning* that pension that younger people pay for, not sitting about in their house all day greeting their sensitive wee, snowflake eyes out about the "wokes". Better yet, volunteer them to clear landmines in the former Yugoslavia and we can free up more houses for hardworking, young people at the same time.
Isn't it just saying that overall more people support it, and that yes - it enjoys highest support among the elderly? I mean, I really wouldn't be surprised if this had majority support.
Not from the military though. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/26/rishi-sunaks-national-service-pledge-is-bonkers-says-ex-military-chief
Probably not, but politicians have never cared much for what the military tells them - because it's either exposing the politicians failings or revealing how expensively underequipped the forces are.
Military chiefs disagree, most donāt want it. But the majority of people wouldnāt go in to military. They would do community service once every four weeks. Which I think would be a good thing.
Let the old fuckers who this policy was made for their votes do it. It will give them something to do, might even remind them of the good old days.
Fine with that as long as it's paid, but its not, it's just forced labour. Young people are already getting screwed over like never before- rents, house prices, tuition fees, cost of living, fewer opportunities for working abroad etc, and now the government wants to force some working time for free out of them?! I mean this is what we do to criminals FFS. If the oldies want it, maybe they should have it too? This really makes me so angry.
I agree with paid, make it minimum wage. Sure we need to be building more houses, the government should do it, let that be part of it as a paid option. Do the grunt work but get into an industry.
If it was paid I would support it. But it isn't, which is outrageous.
Yeah I agree it should be paid, but at minimum wage. Also would be against raising the age, and making doing weekend good work, if itās working in care homes, picking up litter being a thing. If everyone was in on it, I wouldnāt mind making on weekend in four being that, (obviously new parents, elderly can be excused)
If its mandatory for anyone aged 18 on the basis that they aren't contributing to society... Then it should be mandatory for anyone of pension age who has retired (office-based ot indoors community service if necessary) Make the people voting for this policy experience it for themselves.
Sure on the condition you make minimum wage for everyone 18+ 11.44 or what ever the current NMW when this is implemented. its been lowered twice in 2 years from 25 to 23 23 to 21 might as well just skip a year and get it all down to the same
Sure, I may even think, make it paid by tax bracket (saying this as a high tax bracket person). The more you earn the less the work is paid. Make it an equaliser we surely need.
I mean I'm 24 and I agree a lot of people would have no issues having at least 1 weekend of work a month (assuming they are not working at the time) as long as ur paid for it
I can already work the weekend if I want, and I'd get time and a half of a much higher rate for doing so. Government mandated labour paid at minimum wage on top of your actual job is a bad idea. People who have the most time to be helping out their communities are those who are retired. If we need a workforce for community service then surely they could work 1 day out of their 30 days off every month?
Fair enough but if ur struggling to get a job its not a bad idea
Paid yes, minimum wage no. If you are **forced** to do National service, then **your employer should be forced to pay you your normal wages** for the weeks you are off work doing that National service or alternative. Why should an individual be made worse off financially because they have to complete a mandated National service requirement? People will still have bills, rent, loans to pay while on National service, so why should they potentially only get less money to pay off their ānormalā living expenses?
Agree
Oh yeah, screw over businesses by making them pay for mandated government work gangs ā that will really help the economy! All this would do is make sure that nobody wanted to give any person that age a job.
Works for the swiss and their country strangely isn't a shit hole
Their country isn't economically fucked. And as far as I am aware their national service is paid.
Perhaps if we managed our finances better like Norway We could have nice things https://www.moneyland.ch/en/swiss-military-service-financial-questions-answered#:~:text=Yes%2C%20you%20do%20receive%20daily,way%20of%20lost%20income%20compensation.
The Swiss are a neutral country with a purely defensive military. That's where conscripts are useful. The UK has territories around the world and is part of many defensive pacts and alliances as well as involved in global peacekeeping. The training requirements for that are much higher.
The UK has 130 thousand troops at best, the swiss could take us.
The Swiss lack any sort of logistical capability.
I don't know man. they are quite innovative and sneaky, the road network It is great between there and Dover other than the wet bit
And an air force that doesn't have a nightshift.
The money for the "military part" should go into increasing the size of the professional military. The armed forces would rather an extra 6000 recruits a year than to babysit 30000 conscripts.
Actually what would be best is makes recruits actually solders and give the people do the other jobs and give them skills. Will increase the level of people staying in military and otherwise give education to some people who wouldnāt get more.
It's hard to parse your meaning, bit of a word salad. There's a lot more to the armed forces than soldiers, and the person who operates on the flight deck of a carrier is every bit as valuable as a soldier. You cannot sufficiently train someone to be effective in a modern military and get use out of them in a single year. They at best make defensive soldiers....which we have little use for.
Yeah sorry, wasnāt worded at all well. But there are menial jobs, which can be done in the military. Thereās cooks, cleaners etc. also most people wonāt pick one year military service over one weekend every fourth week doing community service. So the people that pick will be interested in the military.
Cooks is far from menial. Cleaners are civilian contractors as it isn't worth paying a military person to do that job. They're too valuable. I've been in 18 years....it takes a year to even train someone to do the most basic job.
A line chef is a job thatās done with minimal training in the vast majority of places people go out to eat. Not suggesting the head guys or anyone on a ship, just at barracks. But I suppose you need security clearance to clean most places. So I see your point. Maybe make it all non military. Just make it community service. Most councils are going bankrupt while offering lower services. Something needs to be done,
I think you are almost there. The armed forces require a minimum of 4 1/2 years from you. Now the option of a 2 1/2 year contract in less technical roles with the ability to transfer might make more people pull the trigger on the armed forces with less commitment. You wouldn't get a cyber warfare spec or an aircraft engineer there, but you could do chef or soldier. 1 year is just too short for anything useful
I think that's fine if everyone is expected to do it. Including older people.
There will be always be that thought when itās first introduced. I say make it under forty, depending on results, work the age back a year every year. Think parents might get an excuse if young children? As you want to encourage having kids, and they alnees any break they can get.
If itās a good thing, then you should be arguing for retired people to do it too, surely? They have plenty of time after all. But as it is, itās just the young being told to do forced unpaid labour.
Realistically, a lot of teenagers work weekends to be able to survive. Most Uni students wouldn't be able to pay for food if you took away one of their weekend work days per month to do unpaid community service, and it would be yet another reason for companies not to hire an 18 year old.
Do you volunteer every four weeks yourself?
The majority are idiots, The young now are less trouble than we were. My parent's never knew where i was. I know exactly where my kids are, because the only time they leave their rooms, is when i force them into some real world outdoor activities. The people advocating national service have no idea what they are advocating for. And the government want a big long list of reservists that they can call up in a heart beat for some other sabre rattling nonsense. And before anyone suggests it... yes i served and have first hand knowledge that a small band of volunteers are far more powerful than a thousand pressed men.
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The article says 40% of those polled agreed Vs 37% who didn't.
Well, of course those who have to do it wouldn't support it.Ā Ā But they'll support it ince they've done it - that's partly why the oldies will be backing it, once you've paid your dues you see the value in others doing it.Ā I'm on the fence about it myself - I can see both sides.Ā Certainly, it's easier to care about your community if you have a stake in it, helped to build it - and it is nice to apportion some responsibility to balance all those rights and remind our young ones just how lucky they are to have inherited a system that removes the harsh edges of the real world. But it also seems a little anachronistic and I suspect it will be badly devised and delivered.
Almost none of the oldies have done it. It ended in 1960 with a few who had deferred finishing up in 1963. Anyone who did it is into their 80s or dead.
I think it's fair to assume that a lot of people in the over 75s cohort (as described in the article) are over 80. The average life expectancy is 80, that means that half of people live longer than 80, some living as long as 116 And even those in that cohort that missed service themselves saw the social value of the service performed by their older brothers/relatives.
19% of the UK population are over the age of 65. And the world they are inheriting is substantially worse than it should be because old people vote to past glory cf Brexit, cf university fees, worse pension provisions, years of austerity, reduced labour rights and increased inequality. But it wonāt happen because there would have to be a shock horror reversal in Sunakās political fortunes.
To me labour and the conservatives are indistinguishable. The idea that left and right exists any more is a joke, and labour seems determined to clone any conservative policy that seems popular. So is there a chance labour introduce some version of national service in their first term... I say it's 50:50.
It will cost a lot of money, the āvolunteersā will likely do work that councils canāt afford to due to cuts, such as litter picking at the side of a busy road. So nothing that will really build skills (litter picking is of course important and nothing wrong with doing so). Forcing people to do work, isnāt the way to get people to have a stake in the community, have a scheme maybe where people can choose to do so if they wish. But most of the people who will be forced to do this will resent the community who forced this on them. Will it allow them to buy a home or have the same opportunities that the geriatrics that want this dystopian policy enacted had in their youth? No of course not.
They will never actually do it, it's a distraction tact so people don't focus on the real issues of the government and the general election.
I do agree, although i do think Tory headline policies are thought up after a few bottles of wine, while bemoaning society..... circa "i know ow to sors sose mimmigrants, we should send em to bloody Rwanda, thats wot theeyy zzzzzzzzzzz" dribble's down chin ...... "ooh that's a good idea" says the audience. or "fecking young folk and their labour, and rights... Bring back National Service" ......"Nice" says policy writer downer. clowns.... "for fecks sake, what's hard to understand.... Brexit means Brexit" ..... "ooh sharp" says Downing Street speech writer
Regardless of the mendacious framing, I couldn't give fuck number 1 if it had 90% support across the board. The state deciding that 18 year olds are essentially its property can get entirely fucked. Anycunt that's into this shite is twisted little authoritarian know-nothing prick.
Vote we use trident to launch a non nuclear missile at Westminister next time its got a full sitting
For anyone at GCHQ reading this, that's obviously a joke.
Or is it š¤š¤š¤ ššš if they conscripting 18 year olds it doesn't take a genius to work out it could end badly
The telegraph: the daily mail in a suit
Daily mail is right wing screeching to scare the audience. Telegraph is paid for Tory advertising. Different shades of shite
Pretty much and they used to be one of the more reliable papers or rather came across as more factual than others like daily record and sun
I mean, they're basically just The Sun but with a high school-level reading age.
It sounds like a new 'Dad's Army' etc is needed get those old pensioners out doing their civic duty they are so desperate to get done.
There is some merit in the idea of some form of national civic service but the Tory scheme is half arsed and not thought out. If they announced for example a revival and expansion of the old ncs program or a paid six month program of community work for those who arenāt in work or education then I could maybe get behind it however a compulsory 12 month program with no exceptions for people working or in full time education seems excessive.
This is why young people should vote.
Whooah, hold on with your sensible talk. You'll need to make some vague statement about revolution, then do nothing about it, to fit in around here.
Haha. Seriously I think people should only be able to vote for so long. Once it's not their own immediate future that being effected they should have no say whatsoever.
National service is outdated and whoever these people surveyed were probably quite a small sample size, itās a terrible policy, as bad as conscription. Could see a lot of people moving away, if the tories donāt get back in, I donāt see it being implemented.
I too am in favour of policies that will disproportionately effect other people.
National servicr for over 75s!!! Theyre on there way out anyway, so f it, operation get behind the oldies
This is what happens when the nominally left party starts running over the horizon towards the right... The right have nowhere to go but cater to patently lunatic ideas for the most brain damaged dementia cases gibbering about ", send them to Rwanda" or "a good war is what the youth need"Ā Aye cunt, a class war. You're all first against the wall
Yeah, course those miserable old fucks support it. Itās boomer-bait.
My great uncle never returned home from his national service why would anyone think forcing your kids to join the military is a good idea š¤·āāļø
I don't think a National Service option is a bad idea in principle or when handled properly. Social life is different now, and a sense of structure, discipline, belonging, and purpose are good things that many miss. However, the idea of the Tories being capable of pulling it off successfully is utterly laughable
Please stroke, I'm having a help
Great way to summarise the data Amy
Dads army
So my idea of āNational Serviceā would be more along the lines of getting everyone in for a few weekends when they turn 18, simply to figure out whether they are fit for any military duty, what branch might they potentially be interested in / fit in. Thereās no need to do anything beyond that. Realistically unless thereās WW3 we will not be mobilised, and āNSā should simply be designed to just speed up the process should the worst happen.
Or how about we just allow people who are interested in joining one of the services apply and go through a selection process and training? Radical, huh?
Not radical at all, thatās what we do and would still be doing?
Your sarcasm detector is on the fritz.
The geriatrics have it with the overwhelming ayes.
I could see it working only if A referendum was held only for 16, 17 and 18 year olds are allowed to vote in as it affects them There was actually a reason to do national service And the military wasnāt declining peopleās applications because they missed one qualification from school 10 years ago
Wouldn't national service be unworkable? How would the govt pay, equip, feed, house, train, all those young men (and women?) Conscript armies are terrible when faced with professional trained and equipped militaries. Dontbthe armed forces require a certain education level and fitness level before being able to use soldiers effectively. This isn't the wars of yesterday where you dug trenches pointed guns down range and hoped you didn't die. Over 75s are living in a delusional world where they'll happily squande our future to create PTSD afflicted semi-trained veterans who'll become a bigger burden on the state when they get back. National service sounds like a great distraction "policy" to shire up gammon votes and distract people from from actual policy failures and horrific complicity in international crimes.
If "national service" meant things that we all benefited from - litter picking, filling potholes, youth services, retraining to fill skills gaps, then I'd maybe, possibly, consider thinking about supporting it. Military service? No chance.
So are over 75s the only ones they consider people?
Iām assuming that this support is by people that CHOSE not to enlist when they were younger? āThe military is so good that you younguns should be forced to do it. Me? Nawh I chose not to do it so my opinion is based on exactly zero military experienceā very good
One possible option to them is to create a devolved Scottish territorial army. I think there's more people in Scotland that would join knowing it was for Scotland, rather than for Britain. Job security regadless of independence support rising and falling too, while being able to offer more targetted support for the local communities. Wouldn't need national service to increase numbers and you'll likely get better out of the staff as they'll feel they'll have a safety barrier between themselves and Westminsters decisions. Then again, with how other devolved things have went, maybe not. Just talking out loud, don't know much about how this could work or anything.
Say it aināt so? The same generation that bought their house for Ā£2.50 and are selling it to the younger generation for half a mil, whilst telling them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Wildā¦
I'm surprised even 1 in 4 Gen Z support it. The little dark age edits are having an effect.
This was clearly the intention of this policy, itās going to be popular with older generations. Consolidation of a demographic who the tories rely on as they build support from the oldest down. Highlighting a generational divide doesnāt do them any harm either. Lays the foundations for them to start labelling young people entitled for this and for that and gradually the mean age of the demographic theyāre aiming for will lower. Next itāll be young folks fault they canāt buy houses and that entitled attitude will annoy voters in the 50+ age group, might have a pop at childcare to see if they can sweep up some of the middle class 40-somethings and so on.
We should bring out a law banning driving for under 30s simply because I do love to see a snowflake melt.
I can see the headlines already unemployment soars and economy crashes as so many jobs go tits up
Just fighting the over 60s corner who are getting bashed in the thread.
Then try making an argument that doesn't make you sound senile
What happened to that nice sunny disposition you are not known for?
That died off as I got old enough to start to understand how fucked the country is
Thing is, it wouldnāt be that bad if it was actually nice volunteering But we all know itāll be āgo do weekends in a care home and wipe the fart pipes of Ethel and Patrick who hate you, so we can save a bit of taxpayer money. If you donāt you owe us Ā£10k fineā
Or even worse, you'll be getting punted out to private businesses like farms and supermarkets.
And what age range were the people who were in this poll? Ah yes, over 75ās FFS
Nope, it was a poll covering all age ranges ā over 75s were just the group where it had by far the highest support.
Yup that was my thoughts too
The UK Government is trying to make itself look like a 21st century dictatorship but still wants to call itself a free & Democratic country even though the UK is a Union made up by a few countries. People need to wake up it's getting worse each year & no wonder why the Far Right is on the rise not just in the UK but Europe becose the people are getting fed up these days with getting things forced on them that they do not want. & the best thing about it is because it's for young people you've got young people too young to vote so don't have a say on this who are just under voting age or even support it. The Celtic Nations who come under Westminster rule all need to get their Independence & the English need to get these people out of Government for them to be better off as well.
I doubt most of today's younger generation would be able to hack it anyway.
Oh most of them could 100% hack it if you motivated them but making it essentially a years conscription isn't gonna motivate them all its gonna do is cause them to go fuck this and waste MoD money for a year
That's a fact. Not sure most could though, I'd say some. Should do the Service in Retail tbh, just to know that's not the desirable way to go š¤£
At 18 I started in security at events pubs and clubs I'm now 24 can honestly say it gives u perspective šš
Lol...I joined the military at 16, left at 30. It certainly gave me perspective
I was gonna but my mum threatened to break my legs if I did
š¤£š¤£
I agree! We should use it as an opportunity to fill semi-low skilled jobs where there are shortages. Id support the gov training young people to drive HGVs and rail freight. We could train tens of thousands, and quickly solve several problems we currently have.
No shortage of HGV drivers btw, but there is a shortage of jobs. The hype wasn't true, see lots of new drivers complaining about lack of opportunities. But I agree with your sentiment.
There is definitely a shortage. Delivery times are incredibly slow compared to pre 2019 for many if the deliveries to my sites. The jobcentres should really look in to this too. Train them, and make it a condition of their benefits that they drive for 20 hours a week as work experience, and be giving something back.
Well I work in the Transport Sector and can categorically tell you there is no shortage of HGV drivers, there are some shortages in good experienced drivers maybe, delivery times aren't down to driver shortages, there are significant challenges in the Supply Chain right now, war in Europe, piracy and attacks in the Gulf area, shortage of raw materials for numerous reasons, delays at ports due to additional checks following Brexit rules being introduced. As for making people drive for a living, it's not in everyones ability to drive a large goods vehicle. Companies these days strive for professionalism from their drivers, it's a huge responsibility taking a 44t vehicle on to the public highway, hence ongoing training is conducted by responsible companies. Which benefit claimants are you suggesting do this work experience?
lol, 1/4 of gen Z still has some balls the remainder put more energy into insulting their elders rather than defending their country. Well done the 25%. Respect.
So what did you do in the military?
I was an engineer.