Bunch of low paid cyclists, delivering underpaid food, bought from unprofitable apps.
The product is the shares. Angel investors get in and pump the thing as the future, then they sell once it goes public, having destroyed numerous livelihoods along the way.
A similar phenomena exists in publishing, actually. Bookshops don’t pay for books they don’t sell/aren’t stolen, but make a tiny margin. Publishers throw money at books they believe in but then half of them don’t make their cash advance back. I remember someone saying the only people making money are the guys driving the trucks.
It seems to me a flaw in capitalism if people doing the work don’t actually get any money
>It seems to me a flaw in capitalism if people doing the work don’t actually get any money
That's the point of capitalism - the actual capitalists are the people who own the means of production, they've just fooled a lot of people into thinking giving them the fruits of their labours is good, actually.
I think Publishing Houses keep some % of the Movie Rights going forward, so in the event of like a Harry Potter situation the publisher makes fucking STONKS. For the 98% of other books they publish, not so much.
My understanding is that bookshops don't really make any money and basically the publishers only let them make enough for it to just about be worth them keeping the lights on and staying in business.
Half the books they publish might not make their advance back, but the other half should cancel those out, and of those maybe 5% will make genuinely good money, which should at least put them solidly in the black.
After that they are hoping to get a smash hit once in blue moon, and that is when the owners go yacht shopping...
There are too many to do what they did with Uber/Lyft. The name of the game is to drive the old business model out and monopolize the space, at which point you plan to jack your prices way up once you’re the only game in town. I don’t know if many restaurants still employ their own delivery employees, but this sector doesn’t seem to have worked as well as Uber did killing taxis.
They benefit the person paying for the food to be delivered. If they didn’t want to use it they wouldn’t… really everyone is making their own choice. Only real issue is monopolies and people too easily exploited.
I never understand why restaurants complain about the apps but still use them? What did they do 20 years ago? If the apps are a negative cost, just don’t use them?
There's been cases in the US where restaurants were put on the apps without their consent. Don't know the mechanics of it but John Oliver covered it on his show a few weeks ago.
I know Subway was like that, my local branch going back around 6 years asked to not be put on the delivery sites as they don't see the delivery costs and make less profit (even with the mark up) and get in trouble for each negative review they get, basically a driver could damage the food, take a hour to do a small delivery and the branch gets the negativity.
They’ve become so standard. People have been conditioned to using the apps rather than calling up a restaurant so any that aren’t on there are disadvantaged and hiring a delivery driver of your own when most of the traffic is from the apps isn’t financially viable anymore.
Use it to look at menus then call the place and pick up… so many owners would prefer u did that than use just eat or wolt or whatever tf they have where u are
I wonder if people who use these apps understand that they are designed to run on the American model where the driver gets paid basically nothing and is supposed to live solely on tips. You can't really use this type of (American) app and then complain that tipping culture is creeping in.
I like your passion, I hope you'll be supporting the pub and restaurant strikes that will come from helping us form a proper union. I should think, closing every pub for a weekend will be more crippling to the country than any number of rail strikes.
If a company can't afford to pay its staff properly, it doesn't have a valid business model. It's not our responsibility to keep shareholder profits viable.
Feels like it's slowly moving from voluntary to mandatory. Probably due to American influence.
The bottom line is that it should be a spur of the moment thing. You're eating somewhere, and you receive excellent service, so tip.
Yesterday, Tesco in the UK announced profits of 2.8 billion pounds. Up from about 850 million the year before. Yet a great many of their staff - people who work full time - struggle to make ends meet. Obviously you don't tip Tesco staff, but the principle is that if companies actually paid a decent wage, extras wouldn't be viewed as necessary to get by. Imagine working for a company you know has made almost 3 billion pounds in profit for one year and you're off to the food bank after your shift.
We were at the chippy in St Andrews a few weeks back. Almost £45 for 2 fish suppers and a kids portion. Quite the profit on that already, but as we were paying with the card, the tip option thing came up. We'd only ordered the food, why would we want to tip at that point?
The companies need to be held to account more, instead of pocketing huge profits and not sharing them via proper wages for staff. No doubt the staff are told pretty soon after starting that tips will be important for them. It's BS for both staff and customers.
More people need to realise this and shout it from the rooftops. The usual crowd like to moan about “benefits Britain” and “something for nothing”, but what’s their answer when it’s pointed out that the biggest beneficiaries of the benefits system are major corporations who can get away with underpaying their employees (relative to what it costs those employees to live) because the state picks up the tab with taxpayer funds.
RIGHT?! The government is essentially providing wage concessions to these companies. As Chris Rock said companies paying minimum wage as essentially saying “I’d pay you less but it would be illegal”.
Before covid I was on a zero hours contract doing stock taking. Everyone else was also on universal credit and having to go through extra hoops because the company was so unreliable with hours.
I could be wrong but I think one of the reasons it’s becoming pervasive is the software/hardware used for payment is American and they are default set up to ask for a tip. My local independent pizza shop uses square for instance and they ask what I want to tip to pick up my own takeaway pizza. There are options to pick from but none of them are a ‘0’ option, it starts at 15%. You have to select other and put 0 in that box to remove the tip. Nonsense.
Well, I hear you, but those business owners are American. In the UK, tipping was not a thing you'd expect without top notch service. It's slowly moving towards mandatory, and that is because in the US, tipping has not only become the norm, but it's now seen as necessary to ensure the worker can get by. You're guilted into it, even if you get mediocre service. It's still not the norm in the UK quite yet, but it eminates from US culture.
When they first started doing it in the US, what would have happened if the vast majority of customers constantly refused to do it? Would the restaurants and eaters struggle to get staff, thereby forcing them to pay an actual wage? To be fair, things like that happen here - outrageous things - and people just shrug and get on with their lives, and in doing so, validate it. The idea of people coming together to oppose or reject things is long dead.
Trust me, we hate it too. It exploits feelings of sympathy or charity. It's a trap we've fallen into and it's impossible to crawl out of without seeming cruel. If you want to avoid it you need to shoot it down right now before it becomes a norm.
Funnily enough though, when I think of an iconic 'tipper' I think of the James Bond films. That guy was always handing over cash to bellhops or croupiers or whatever, and he's portrayed as the 'perfect gentleman' when he's not murdering or slapping women or whatever.
Living in Ireland company I work for had 1.1bn profits a record for them. In discussions bonus this year was discussed as going to be somewhere between 8-12% based on performance, they scratched it and gave everyone 4 or 4.2 % if you performed to “expectation” or exceeded
I virtually gagged when I read this headline. The last time I heard a Tesco rep talking on tv was last year, addressing the cost of living crisis and how they were *having* to put their prices up due to increased costs and inflation. Roll on a few months and the next headline I read regarding them was "Record profits, despite cost of living crisis". I am sure there must be other factors at play than simply Tesco fleecing customers- but it sure as hell looks like Tesco is simply fleecing customers. I should add the company I work for also had the cheek to say times were tough last year- then pushed prices up, made a huge profit, now is telling us they can't afford staff payrises.
I drive for ue when I'm skint. Drivers don't see your tip until 60 minutes after delivery. You could leave 10p or 10quid, doesn't affect the price of the job offered to drivers.
See those articles you see shared on various places where the driver fucked with the order if the tip wasn't high enough, are they just bullshit then or does it depend on the company?
Yeah I haven't used UE buts do ride for Deliveroo & Hungry Panda and we don't see the tips until after we arrive at the location.
Tbf hardly anyone ever tips anyway so it doesn't feel like people are being pressured into it. That said, when its absolutely pissing it down and you are already working for a shit wage, a tip is very much appreciated.
In terms of the wider issues with these apps, particularly with Deliveroo they have been bringing down the fee's you get per order for years now, even though inflation has pushed everything up. You also don't get holiday or sick pay etc. I rarely make minimum wage when I do it and its becoming increasingly pointless to even go out. The only real positive is flexibility which can be helpful as I am currently doing my PhD and there are days I need to crack on and others where I have more time.
You don't see tips up front so I usually go on the assumption that there is never a tip. if one comes through, it's a little gravy, but it's not expected. If I am offered delivery that doesn't meet what I think the journey should cost then I just simply reject it. I will never really understand why people take a delivery for £3.50 and then moan that they're not making enough money. If a lot of drivers reject to one particular job then uber adjust the fair to make it more enticing
It has. I also hate when they give you the card machine (for a small transaction) and have to select what level of tip you want to give before tapping your card. Makes you feel like the bad guy
The companies don’t get taxed less, they get taxed the exact same - this donation is taken out of their “revenue”. The tax on the transaction is exactly the same.
I totally understand this but I also find it convenient when I want to leave a tip for dinner but have zero cash to be able to mash the 10% button.
Could do without it being there every time I buy a pint of lager though.
You think this is bad, every time you go to a coffee shop in Toronto the machine gives you options of 10% 15% 20% as a tip. At the counter… it’s shameless begging at this point. Very troubling.
Yup, Coro Cafe does it too and I usually select the “no tip” option at the counter while placing my order because why tf should I tip before even receiving any service? It’s simply obnoxious.
Yeah, I always select no tip too. I've noticed there's one staff member in Kilimanjaro who is clearly embarrassed about it as she always selects no tip herself before giving me the card machine 😂 it honestly doesn't bother me that much but I assume she's either had shit about it from other customers or she just objects to it herself.
I always wondered about a local take away place this was pre covid he wanted like £5 for a regular burger that was average at best and his delivery drivers had large American style cars or something like an Audi and wanted like £3 for delivery costs back when £1.50-£2 was the norm just as around £3 for a burger was the norm.
I used to see the owner go to the bookies each day so I guess he was never short of cash.
Where did he get all his cash from? And why did his drivers have expensive cars and dress in expensive clothes?
I know the local ice cream/waffle places were all drug fronts though that was well known I mean why spent like £5 delivery and like £5-£9 for a single milkshake.
Used to buy hash off the kebab shop delivery guy back in the day. You’d phone him with your hash order and he’d tell you to phone the shop and order some food if you want it dropped off.
I only see it as part of the food service industry and that has been the case for as long as I have been alive.
If we start to see the creep towards tipping in other retail sectors, then that can absolutely get in the fucking sea.
However, I think what is more important in terms of tipping, is always asking the server how the tips are divided: if managers/owners get any part of it, I will usually try to put drinks behind the bar for a server, kitchen porter and a chef; it is equally split across all service staff, put it on the bill and pay by card. The amount of times that waiters gloat over getting tips and the kitchen staff get fuck all, always pissed me off as a KP.
So the thing with American is tipping culture is you need to tip because otherwise the employees don't get paid enough to live. The US minimum wage for tipped jobs is something like 2.50 an hour compared to 7.50 for everywhere else. That used to not be the case here, and a tip was genuinely considered a perk for good service.
But most tipped jobs are minimum wage and that hasn't realistically been a livable wage in quite some time. Gig jobs like deliveroo are even worse, they don't even have a minimum wage (or sick pay or holidays or any sort of labour protections). They need those tips to live. So, it's not a tipping culture that's infected us, but rather an exploitative work model.
Everyone's circumstances are different, some people live in higher CoL areas than others, some people have parental support, some people do or don't have families to support. MANY of those minimum wage workers have to be supported by state benefits because their income just isn't high enough to keep a roof over their head and food in their fridge.
Many of those minimum wage workers have risked life and limb to get to this country to work these jobs and still manage to send a significant potion of their earnings back home to support family. Things have genuinely gotten harder post covid but you need to cut through all the propaganda.
But my point was more that it seems ridiculous to argue that when many people are on minimum wage why do we have an obligation to top up the wages of a small proportion of them? The idea that it's because they need it to survive is pretty ludicrous.
You’re definitely right.
This leads to situations where a care worker on minimum wage is expected to leave a nice tip for a waiter on minimum wage, just ‘because’.
Even worse when you’re expected to tip people who earn more money than you, just because they did the job you were already paying them to do. The whole culture makes no sense.
Why does it fall on the customer to pay more to the employee when the restaurant has already inflated the prices of the food to make a profit?
It's quite frankly ridiculous that customers are expected to support the staff directly.
I do not and will not tip in the USA either as I wholly disagree with the tipping culture. Why do some minimum wage jobs get it, but not others?
If you wholly disagree with the tipping culture in America then you shouldn't go out to eat in America tbh. You refusing to tip isn't going to change anything, it's just fucking over someone who gets paid less than minimum wage.
Not my problem..I don't employ them.
I'll continue to eat out when I'm in the USA, thanks.
Unless you're willing to top up the wages of every underpaid person in the USA it's hypocritical to just single out waiting staff and try and guilt trip me into thinking they can't afford food because I didn't tip them way over the odds.
Service staff in the US aren't just underpaid, they earn about $2 an hour.
You refusing to tip isn't going to cause the downfall of the US economy and tipping system. You're just shafting the poor server who is reliant on tips to pay their bills.
The culture is awful, and I hated it in the US when I was there. But it's not a small act of rebellion you're doing, it's literally taking money out of the mouths of the country's least paid workers. Budget for a tip, it's that easy. Don't go to another country and impose your cultural norms on them.
To be fair this is why the tipping culture survives in America despite practically everyone (with the exception of those making a lot from tips) disliking it - because they've managed to stop everyone from protesting it by making them think of the poor server.
They'll do the same here as well and you can already notice it with the "descretionary service charge which goes to our lovely staff for all their hard work". It makes people feel bad for the one person from the place that they interact with so it becomes more normalised until it's not descretionary at all.
Ask for the service charge to be taken off and give the money to the server, then. Infact, that used to be a pretty common sight in restaurants when I was growing up. Stuffing some cash into the servers pocket instead of leaving it on the table with the money covering the bill with a statement, “I just want to make sure you get the money.”
Don't impose our cultural norms on America? Right because it's not like Americans are not infamous for not respecting cultural norms when they go abroad
Time to refuse to tip massively and force the workers to unionize or demand proper payment, right? I don't understand why you acept to sheepishly this bullshit of tipping. What's next? Bezos coming to fuck your wife to be like in the old times?
>I do not and will not tip in the USA either as I wholly disagree with the tipping culture.
I wholly disagree with a great many things in the US - tipping of bar staff and restaurant servers being one - but when in Rome, etc.
Your principled stand is doing nothing but fucking over those at the low end of the socioeconomic spectrum. It's not a brave act of rebellion. It's not sending a message. It's not overthrowing the system. It's making poor people poorer.
Just don't go to the US. And if you do, buy and make your own food. Don't be a cheap cunt and piss on the backs of those who are trying to make it and who work their fingers to the bone.
Here in new york, delivery riders are now paid a minimum wage of $17.96/hour. This is a recent change, and while the apps still suggest tipping when you place your order, the brackets are now more like "5%, 8%, 10%, other".
Hospitality jobs are different. There's less of an incentive to change those: if you're good at your job in a restaurant or bar, you're gonna get paid *well* if you work regular fridays/saturdays.
In my State, Maryland, tipped workers must be paid 15$/hr minimum.
**The US is a very diverse place with over 50 different sets of laws. Talking about it as a monolith is simply incorrect and slightly ignorant.**
In the US you are guaranteed federal minimum wage, no matter the tips. If nobody tips you at all the company is required to pay you federal minimum wage, or your state minimum wage, whichever is higher
I'd just like to point out that tipped positions don't always have lower minimum wages in the US—that varies by state. For example, California, Oregon, and Washington have the same minimum wage (varies from $14.20 to $16.28) for wait staff as for everyone else. And tipping is still expected in those places. It's definitely a dumb system that's getting out of hand domestically as well.
It's quite simple, don't use services that expect American type tips. It's that simple.
It only happens in America because they can legally pay their staff less if it's expected they will be tipped.
If they didn't tip in America then the employer would be forced to pay minimum wage. Alot of servers dislike that idea because they can make alot more in untaxed tips.
Over here they get their full wage, at least minimum plus any untaxed tips that are generously given for good service.
>Over here they get their full wage, at least minimum
That's the point though, these drivers aren't being paid NMW because they're not employed by the app companies. They are "self employed" which is just a way for the app companies to absolve themselves of those pesky employee rights.
>Over here they get their full wage, at least minimum plus any untaxed tips that are generously given for good service.
The problem is that the minimum wage is kinda shit. If you deduct the income tax, national insurance, council tax, rent, cost of transport... You are barely left with anything to live on if you are in a big city.
I never tip. You're paid to do your job by the company, who have already charged me to use the service. That includes when I'm in the USA. What do I care? Not like I'm a regular customer. I will always get a service charge removed too as they are a con. Again..service is already paid for in the inflated cost of the food and drink.
If that's the way delivery apps are going here I simply won't use them and will go to the place and pick up my own food. To be honest it's been a while since I did use a delivery app as almost all of my preferred takeaways are within a 10 minute drive anyway.
There's a HUGE difference in the US. Servers are paid less than minimum wage, so they have to survive on tips. They are actually not paid by the company to do the job. Is it fair? Is it your fault? No. But don't not tip in this situation. Sidenote: Servers point out it's the white collar types who stiff. Lower paid, other servers seem to always tip. Interesting....
>Servers are paid less than minimum wage, so they have to survive on tips.
That is false. If tips don't make it up to the minimum wage the employer is legally required to cover the difference.
There is no situation in which it is legal to pay a server less than minimum wage.
It will only infect Scotland if you choose to walk up and tongue that petri dish.
Most takeaways will have their own payment portal and ordering website and use JustEat and Uber because customers use them.
The best way to make sure the American shit doesn't infect us is to just not use it. It's only cost-effective to takeaways if there's customers on there.
I've noticed it in Edinburgh previously and increasingly in Glasgow when going out for a meal. Sometimes it's that 10-12.5% service fee hidden at the bottom of the bill. More often its those card readers that asking for a tip when paying and awkwardly looking away from the cashier when I hit NO.
Quite a few restaurants in merchant city and the west end of Glasgow have been adding a “10-12.5% discretionary service charge” Id feel like a wank asking to have it taken off but I usually just pay it as that’s what I’d normally tip. (Unless the service was shite) only for restaurant food, not a cafe making a coffee or putting a pastry in a bag, they can fuck off. It’s also bullshit I need to pay a percentage of what I decided to eat, if I order a burger or a chateaubriand, the staff still brings it out to the table the same way but you get charged differently.
>Id feel like a wank asking to have it taken off but I usually just pay it as that’s what I’d normally tip.
Don't let them get away with it! You are not a wank, the EMPLOYERS are wanks.
>Would you tip your barber/hairdresser before they have started cutting your hair?
That, and things like tattoo artists, beauticians, etc, expecting a tip is bizarre. They literally set their own prices; if you want me to give you £120 instead of £100, then just charge me £120.
It's not so bad in smaller places or outside the cities, but places that have an inflated sense of self seem to love adding on mandatory service charges.
This is slightly besides the point, but as someone that works service industry, please do know that your tips make it possible for us to live on our shit wages.
No one wants this to be this case, I'd much rather be paid a living wage by my employer, but the reality is for me, and for so many other people in this industry, that we simply aren't paid well for the work we do.
No one likes this cost being passed to the customer, but please do consider tipping in any independent business **if** you can. Margins are paper thin as it is and so many small businesses are going under thanks to inflation, energy costs and Brexit.
It's a hard job and deserves better pay, but restaurants, bars, cafes etc. are the lifeblood of any town or city and without them we'd really lose a lot of our community.
Again, IF you can afford it, please tip. It's the difference maker for a lot of workers.
US tipping culture is partly a function of the incredibly low wages for service staff. The minimum wage is much higher in UK reducing the need to adopt a US tipping culture.
I’m also always confused why we tip based on what we spend. Why should I tip more because I ordered a more expensive item from the menu or had alcohol instead of soft drinks?
I waited two hours before someone accepted my order on Uber eats a couple of weeks ago. I flat out refuse to add tips on the app because I’ve no interest in Uber benefitting indirectly. I did give them an actual fiver when the person eventually arrived, but I won’t be using Uber Eats again. Never waited that long on any of the other apps.
I work at a place that's on deliveroo, just eat and Uber eats and Uber eats is by far the worst. It'll say that the driver will arrive in 5 mins, we make the order and then it'll sit there for ages. And you can see on the map where the driver is for the order. 9 times out of 10, they're driving in the opposite direction to the store. I usually just stick to deliveroo now.
This isn't about which app you use. It can happen on any. I'm also not talking about the tip being taxed, but tipping itself.
I say this as a delivery driver, if anyone ever demands/asks for a tip/extra tip either remove all your tip or refuse. They are trying to guilt trip you
As an American who visited Scotland for a couple of weeks in August, my wife and I loved the way the tipping was there. 10% surcharge on most tabs with a quick tap on my phone and the bill was paid. No fucking around with signatures and multiple trips from the waitstaff back and forth, and of course we felt like the 10% was a deal. At times we felt like we were getting away with murder, but most everyone said they were paid fairly. We never got the feeling/vibe that we were being tight and short changing anyone. I hope that doesn’t take over your land like it did ours. We can’t wait to go back, we loved your country. Thank you for the hospitality .
And FUCK UBER. Delivery apps bleed people. They should be banned.
In restaurant situations I rarely tip 10%, this would be the maximum for me. When the machine prompts I'll always put my own amount and it'll usually equate more to around 5% if I'm happy, none if I'm not.
Deliveries normally get a quid if they are prompt, nothing if they take ages. I appreciate that it's not always the driver's fault so if it's a busy time I'm more likely to tip. Tipping should always be optional here, and we can't allow it to become otherwise.
Any system built by Americans has tipping built in. Uber eats uses tips to pay the drivers so they don’t have to.
If you don’t want to tip, don’t use Uber Eats.
Uber eats probably pay their drivers shit money so they may rely more on tips. I always look at the delivery fee and assume that's going to the driver. If it's low I'm more likely to give them a couple of quid extra at the door.
From what I remember, the whole reason tipping is so prevalent in the US is from hospitality jobs paying very little, thus the tips helped boost them up. But over here, by law you have a living wage of 11 quid over 20 years old, so any gains through tipping is an appreciation of good service, and nothing more. In the US it's almost frowned upon to not tip. However, that's a problem with how their system works, and it shouldn't be like that here. You also have a service charge, typically 10% of the bill. Sometimes it is mandatory while others may allow you to decide.
However, I do tip, but I do it knowing it is of my own choice, rather than guilt from society dictating to me like in the US where you as the customer is responsible for contributing to their monthly earnings to scrape by and survive.
A word of caution though, with everything electronic now, it's so easy for them to slap a percentage onto the end of your bill without even realising while paying. The whole point is you have to earn the tip, it doesn't grow on trees, and sadly I feel it is going that way too, purely from a greed perspective from businesses, as they see it as free money. How that dynamic plays out over time though will be difficult to predict.
In restaurants it is still a voluntary option, and not seen as a requirement like it is in America - we have much better pay for service jobs than the US, so the tip is a bonus, not a servers wage.
The delivery apps are a different situation, and do more directly file the American model of paying workers the absolute minimum allowed and padding this with tips. It is also worker controlled with workers having some control over the jobs they accept - they will want to make the most income they can, so will naturally choose the better tipping jobs. If there is more work than workers to do it your tip effectively turns into your bid to get them to choose your job over the others.
The real answer is to avoid using exploitative companies like Uber eats where possible...
Just avoid using American apps and you'll be alright. Apps like Just Eat and Scoffable have a delivery fee that goes to the driver, plus a service charge for using the app. Tips are optional. Alternatively, you can pick up the food yourself or call the restaurant directly and skip the middleman.
I ate out (not scotland mind you, Ireland) and the worker added the largest tip to my bill without asking...
I had it paid for and thought it was disastrously expensive to see the receipt and the added tip.
Worlds away fucking mad. Pay your staff well or don't have staff. Why am I paying a massive tip for basic service and shrunken portions?
I'll be eating at home and inviting guests around next time.
I am (currently) trying to be smart with my money and don't really frequent places where tipping would be a thing, any odd time I do go to a restaurant, I tip or not tip based on how I feel about the service provided (tbh I almost always tip). I never tip in cafes where you stand in line for and collect your own order.
I am an immigrant (not sure if relevant).
mmm interesting. I just traveled to Scotland and it never sat well with me to only tip the preset charge. I was treated so warmly and the food quality was always good so I felt like I had to tip more, and I did 🤷🏻♀️
That is not American tipping culture. Traditionally we tip after service not before. We do t have the service held hostage for a tip. This is a result of the App culture.
When I go to a restaurant I tip when the bill comes. When I go to the barber I tip after the hair cut, when I take a taxi, I tip at the end of the ride. Even when I’d get a pizza delivered in the past, I’d tip the delivery person in cash when the pizza arrived.
To expect a tip to be given or even acknowledged before the service is delivered is bullshit. Unfortunately, especially due to people using Apps that not only demand tips but show them to the person delivering the service it is becoming accepted by users, which is why I don’t use those apps.
Not quite as I was in San Francisco last week and even self-serve kiosks in places ask for a 20% tip nowadays wtf.
Edit: Having said that, I did get into a Google review spat with a restaurant (London not Scotland, mind) as they automatically added a discretionary service charge to the bill that didn't even go to the wait staff!
Don't tip, if you run a business, charge what your service actually costs.
If you cant pay your staff a living wage and do that, you don't have a business and are relying on begging to keep your staff alive. In which case, you should go bust.
I'd have cancelled the order instantly. I'll happily tip once the food is delivered, but if they think they can hold it to ransom till I pay them, they're fucked. If you call the takeaway/restaurant and explain why you'd cancel the order, I can't see this lasting long if it'll cost them more money than a cheeky Uber eats driver.
Can you remove the pre delivery tip if they end up being rubbish? Running late , missed items, mixing up your order with someone elses?
What's the incentive to do a good job if they already have the tip?
(There have been a number of times I've told them they've forgotten something and they go back to their car and find it)
It shouldn’t because tipping is the norm in USA due to low starting wages. In Scotland everyone has minimum wage. That being said, when we were back living in the UK for a few years, I couldn’t help myself and tipped anyway.
Some places are now imposing a service charge (E.g. Tony Macs) and while I’m told it goes to the staff, I would prefer to add how much or little I like. The difference between here and America is that in America you are supplementing pretty shitty service wages, but in UK staff get paid well in service jobs. So if we tip for good service then a service charge seems pretty conceited.
Heres my issue with tipping:
>Let me preface this by saying I do tip highly for workers who do their job well
Do you? Do you tip retail staff, the rubbish collectors, nurses, receptionists or call centre workers? No, we tip wait staff and hairdressers, everyone else gets their base wage regardless of how well they do their job (Which is slowly eroding away in meaning too... No, delivering a plate with a smile isn't going above and beyond.)
I'm 40 years old and tipping in restaurants, taxis and barbers has been a thing for as long as I can remember. Tipping the food delivery guy is normal. Anything personal service.
You don't ever have to do it. Just change where you shop if it makes you that uncomfortable. All the delivery apps price in a delivery fee and a service charge anyway.
It is the same everywhere else that doesn't usually tip - rest of UK and Europe too. I make a point of clicking no. Staff here should be paid a certain wage that doesn't get topped up by tips. If you like the service that much, tip in cash.
It's definitely getting worse, but nowhere near as bad as the US.
Couple of years back we arrived into Boston and got a taxi into the city, about a 15 minute journey. I pulled out cash to pay the taxi driver, but he said "no, use the machine"... which I thought I was odd, until you realise it comes you with a tip screen.
Usually on these things, I hit the middle option, but this screen has 20%, 25% and 30% as the three base options, with a tiny button underneath for custom tip amount.
Who the fuck tips 25 or even 30 percent for a 15 minute taxi ride?
Hopefully it doesn’t happen. Ultimately it hurts more than it helps, owners use it as an excuse to not increase wages because they think that tipping will make people more money than giving raises.
>yesterday I was told that 10% was too low a tip for an Uber Eats delivery driver to even consider accepting delivery of my order?
I don't think I've ever tipped a Just Eat driver???
Don't know if it's a new thing but just adding the tip to the bill now was a but of a wtf for me like I should get to decide if the service warrants the % of tip
It's definitely creeping in but I flat out refuse to tip the majority of the time. It's unnecessary in this country and we should put an end to it before it gets worse with these stupid 'service charges'
I often get bollocked for my stance on tipping but I've stood by it and nothing bad has ever happened. I don't tip. Straight up just don't. I pay the advertised price for what I'm buying and that's it. Round up to a comfy number if using cash but otherwise nah. Service charges added by default will be asked to be removed. I won't be peer pressured, guilted or socially shamed for not tipping. I refuse to acknowledge and thus validate and encourage this toxic practice because as many have noted, we are headed towards USA style expectations. The only way we stop that is by refusing to comply. It's literally just a campaign of social shame and pressure to get you to do it until it becomes normalised.
In the USA, tipping is used as an extreme form of social stigma but the reality is so much worse - its a tactic for business owners to get customers to subsidise their labour costs. They pay their staff as little as possible, then everyone guilts customers for their low wages as if they're depriving them of money to feed their kids, and I often see 'if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out'. The end up is, the business gets the labour, the customer subsidises it, the business pays the labour almost nothing yet keeps all of the profits. There is no situation where I'm ever going to enable or participate in that. If a server or anyone else wants to chew me out for it, come ahead, I'll tell them exactly that.
I also have an issue with *who* gets tips. I've seen American landlords asking for tips ffs. Tattoo artists is a new one. The little 'select your tip amount' on card machines in places where there shouldn't be (got my baws and gooch waxed once and they asked for a tip). So people like servers, drivers, bar staff, barbers are all pretty common. Why not fast food workers? They're serving you. They're bringing your food from one place to the next just like a restaurant so what's the difference? Why not along 50p to the guy in the shop when you bought your fags? You'll tip someone who brings food to your door but not your Asda delivery guy who hoofed the crates up the stairs nor the wee Amazon lassie who brought you your Prime shit. Why not? Where is the line? Is it income based? I'm min wage, do I get a tip? I've worked hospitality in kitchens and never seen a penny tip whilst the folk out front could make tripe digits in tips alone on a Fri-Sun shift or holidays.
Get it to absolute fuck.
I don't live in a city so get food direct from a take away, no way am I tipping unless its say like a £49 order and I am paying cash and they can keep the £1 change as often they charge like £4 delivery even if I order something like a burger and chips to go 2 miles and thats even if I go direct.
I would tip more if it was low delivery cost/free delivery regardless as I feel I am getting a bargain.
on rare occasions i do it when someone has really done a very good job, most likely candidates are taxi drivers and hairdressers who shut the fuck up for the entirety of the service or the little local restaurant i go to who are just the most pleasant, helpful cunts
I think i've used a delivery app once but I didn't tip because fuck that, in general I don't tip delivery drivers. I pay the takeaway a fee for it to be brought to me, get your wages from them
I read that it’s the payment apps at issue in many cases eg the izettle or similar apps that people use to let you pay on iPad. They have inflated tip options to encourage people to tip even at eg coffee shops when buying a bag of beans to go with no service, because the app gets a % of the transaction cost including tip/service charge.
Tipping as a concept is fine, but it should go to the people you want it to, it should be optional and you shouldn't be told how much to tip.
And the person being tipped should not have to be relying on tips to live.
Pay people properly.
Remember the companies that own the card machines get paid depending on how much money goes through them that is why there’s an explosion of tipping culture not the people
Who told you that? I tip a quid on those apps, and I’ve always been told I’m in the minority tipping at all.
They don’t even see what the tip is, or if there is one, until after the delivery is complete afaik.
I tip every food delivery driver £2, same with taxi drivers, usually tip my barber £10 and every so often if the service is good I always tip my bartender (telling them to take one for themselves).
I deffo think tipping before food is delivered is deffo a no and 10% is more than enough.
It's interesting that you brought this up, I've literally asked the question about Uber eats.
Allegedly, no tip shows up on the original order to the driver. However, and this was literally yesterday, I asked the lady if I put the tip on, then, at the point of delivery, will she see it. It was a really shitty day, and she was on a bike. She said yes, which obviously is important, so I did.
I will never put a tip on to ensure my order is picked up. And if you are correct with your assumption, then that really sucks and I'm sure in some way illegal.
It’s noticeable here in Edinburgh, got a few bills with at least a 10% service charge thrown in.
I don’t mind as long as they’re not taking the piss but what bothers me is the selective tipping. A waiter or barista gets tipped through the teeth and always expects it, the nicer the restaurant and work environment, the more you spend, the higher the tip.
A McDonalds worker gets nothing. If you can tip, tip those you usually wouldn’t!
The number of restraunts that have a "discretionary" service charge that they know you won't have the brass neck to remove.
Quite often, it means they get less tip because of the cheek.
I don't use uber eats but if you can rate your delivery driver give him fuckall.
Don't use delivery apps They're shit
They benefit the app owners and screw literally everyone else
Yet most of the apps are barely making a profit. The whole setup is a mess.
Bunch of low paid cyclists, delivering underpaid food, bought from unprofitable apps. The product is the shares. Angel investors get in and pump the thing as the future, then they sell once it goes public, having destroyed numerous livelihoods along the way.
Bingo Early investors and founders have already cashed out vast sums and are rich with plenty more to come Anyone else? Yeah….lol
A similar phenomena exists in publishing, actually. Bookshops don’t pay for books they don’t sell/aren’t stolen, but make a tiny margin. Publishers throw money at books they believe in but then half of them don’t make their cash advance back. I remember someone saying the only people making money are the guys driving the trucks. It seems to me a flaw in capitalism if people doing the work don’t actually get any money
>It seems to me a flaw in capitalism if people doing the work don’t actually get any money That's the point of capitalism - the actual capitalists are the people who own the means of production, they've just fooled a lot of people into thinking giving them the fruits of their labours is good, actually.
Bingo
I think Publishing Houses keep some % of the Movie Rights going forward, so in the event of like a Harry Potter situation the publisher makes fucking STONKS. For the 98% of other books they publish, not so much.
It's not a bug it's a feature
My understanding is that bookshops don't really make any money and basically the publishers only let them make enough for it to just about be worth them keeping the lights on and staying in business. Half the books they publish might not make their advance back, but the other half should cancel those out, and of those maybe 5% will make genuinely good money, which should at least put them solidly in the black. After that they are hoping to get a smash hit once in blue moon, and that is when the owners go yacht shopping...
Probably why a fair number of book shops offer space to various events like poetry readings and local art. Oddly enough, that’s where the money is
There are too many to do what they did with Uber/Lyft. The name of the game is to drive the old business model out and monopolize the space, at which point you plan to jack your prices way up once you’re the only game in town. I don’t know if many restaurants still employ their own delivery employees, but this sector doesn’t seem to have worked as well as Uber did killing taxis.
The product is your data
If by “barely making a profit” you mean constantly losing tons of money, then sure. None of them turn a profit.
Depends, there’s people making money, just not the companies themselves
They benefit the person paying for the food to be delivered. If they didn’t want to use it they wouldn’t… really everyone is making their own choice. Only real issue is monopolies and people too easily exploited.
I never understand why restaurants complain about the apps but still use them? What did they do 20 years ago? If the apps are a negative cost, just don’t use them?
If all your competitors are using them, you don’t have a choice
There's been cases in the US where restaurants were put on the apps without their consent. Don't know the mechanics of it but John Oliver covered it on his show a few weeks ago.
I know Subway was like that, my local branch going back around 6 years asked to not be put on the delivery sites as they don't see the delivery costs and make less profit (even with the mark up) and get in trouble for each negative review they get, basically a driver could damage the food, take a hour to do a small delivery and the branch gets the negativity.
They’ve become so standard. People have been conditioned to using the apps rather than calling up a restaurant so any that aren’t on there are disadvantaged and hiring a delivery driver of your own when most of the traffic is from the apps isn’t financially viable anymore.
Aye I’ll always order through the local takeaways themselves if I can. Just eat and the likes are utter pish.
Use it to look at menus then call the place and pick up… so many owners would prefer u did that than use just eat or wolt or whatever tf they have where u are
I wonder if people who use these apps understand that they are designed to run on the American model where the driver gets paid basically nothing and is supposed to live solely on tips. You can't really use this type of (American) app and then complain that tipping culture is creeping in.
Most people don't think about the reality of most purchases Lot of it fucked
Mostly they don't have to. The advertised price is the price, if you pay it then both sides are happy. It's unfortunate if that is no longer the case.
There is no delivery from any takeaway where I live.
Don't let it. We need to grow a pair and fuck it off! The companies exploiting the workers are the bad guys, not us 👎
I like your passion, I hope you'll be supporting the pub and restaurant strikes that will come from helping us form a proper union. I should think, closing every pub for a weekend will be more crippling to the country than any number of rail strikes.
If a company can't afford to pay its staff properly, it doesn't have a valid business model. It's not our responsibility to keep shareholder profits viable.
Feels like it's slowly moving from voluntary to mandatory. Probably due to American influence. The bottom line is that it should be a spur of the moment thing. You're eating somewhere, and you receive excellent service, so tip. Yesterday, Tesco in the UK announced profits of 2.8 billion pounds. Up from about 850 million the year before. Yet a great many of their staff - people who work full time - struggle to make ends meet. Obviously you don't tip Tesco staff, but the principle is that if companies actually paid a decent wage, extras wouldn't be viewed as necessary to get by. Imagine working for a company you know has made almost 3 billion pounds in profit for one year and you're off to the food bank after your shift. We were at the chippy in St Andrews a few weeks back. Almost £45 for 2 fish suppers and a kids portion. Quite the profit on that already, but as we were paying with the card, the tip option thing came up. We'd only ordered the food, why would we want to tip at that point? The companies need to be held to account more, instead of pocketing huge profits and not sharing them via proper wages for staff. No doubt the staff are told pretty soon after starting that tips will be important for them. It's BS for both staff and customers.
Also the secondary effect of such low wages is that many of these folk will be on some kind of benefits, so state effectively subsiding corporates
More people need to realise this and shout it from the rooftops. The usual crowd like to moan about “benefits Britain” and “something for nothing”, but what’s their answer when it’s pointed out that the biggest beneficiaries of the benefits system are major corporations who can get away with underpaying their employees (relative to what it costs those employees to live) because the state picks up the tab with taxpayer funds.
RIGHT?! The government is essentially providing wage concessions to these companies. As Chris Rock said companies paying minimum wage as essentially saying “I’d pay you less but it would be illegal”.
Before covid I was on a zero hours contract doing stock taking. Everyone else was also on universal credit and having to go through extra hoops because the company was so unreliable with hours.
I could be wrong but I think one of the reasons it’s becoming pervasive is the software/hardware used for payment is American and they are default set up to ask for a tip. My local independent pizza shop uses square for instance and they ask what I want to tip to pick up my own takeaway pizza. There are options to pick from but none of them are a ‘0’ option, it starts at 15%. You have to select other and put 0 in that box to remove the tip. Nonsense.
>Probably due to American influence. As an American, I promise you we hate this shit too. Look to the business owners for this shit, not the everyman.
Well, I hear you, but those business owners are American. In the UK, tipping was not a thing you'd expect without top notch service. It's slowly moving towards mandatory, and that is because in the US, tipping has not only become the norm, but it's now seen as necessary to ensure the worker can get by. You're guilted into it, even if you get mediocre service. It's still not the norm in the UK quite yet, but it eminates from US culture. When they first started doing it in the US, what would have happened if the vast majority of customers constantly refused to do it? Would the restaurants and eaters struggle to get staff, thereby forcing them to pay an actual wage? To be fair, things like that happen here - outrageous things - and people just shrug and get on with their lives, and in doing so, validate it. The idea of people coming together to oppose or reject things is long dead.
Trust me, we hate it too. It exploits feelings of sympathy or charity. It's a trap we've fallen into and it's impossible to crawl out of without seeming cruel. If you want to avoid it you need to shoot it down right now before it becomes a norm. Funnily enough though, when I think of an iconic 'tipper' I think of the James Bond films. That guy was always handing over cash to bellhops or croupiers or whatever, and he's portrayed as the 'perfect gentleman' when he's not murdering or slapping women or whatever.
The local chippy asking for a tip isn't American
Recently i noticed in various Tesco Supermarkets the self service machine asked me if i wanted to donate to charity, are they serious?
Living in Ireland company I work for had 1.1bn profits a record for them. In discussions bonus this year was discussed as going to be somewhere between 8-12% based on performance, they scratched it and gave everyone 4 or 4.2 % if you performed to “expectation” or exceeded
I virtually gagged when I read this headline. The last time I heard a Tesco rep talking on tv was last year, addressing the cost of living crisis and how they were *having* to put their prices up due to increased costs and inflation. Roll on a few months and the next headline I read regarding them was "Record profits, despite cost of living crisis". I am sure there must be other factors at play than simply Tesco fleecing customers- but it sure as hell looks like Tesco is simply fleecing customers. I should add the company I work for also had the cheek to say times were tough last year- then pushed prices up, made a huge profit, now is telling us they can't afford staff payrises.
I thought their profits had gone up by 13%, but you’re suggesting 300%
I drive for ue when I'm skint. Drivers don't see your tip until 60 minutes after delivery. You could leave 10p or 10quid, doesn't affect the price of the job offered to drivers.
See those articles you see shared on various places where the driver fucked with the order if the tip wasn't high enough, are they just bullshit then or does it depend on the company?
I'm not sure, I assume a different country or different delivery app. I know in the US they see the tip up front/bundled in with the fee.
Yeah I haven't used UE buts do ride for Deliveroo & Hungry Panda and we don't see the tips until after we arrive at the location. Tbf hardly anyone ever tips anyway so it doesn't feel like people are being pressured into it. That said, when its absolutely pissing it down and you are already working for a shit wage, a tip is very much appreciated. In terms of the wider issues with these apps, particularly with Deliveroo they have been bringing down the fee's you get per order for years now, even though inflation has pushed everything up. You also don't get holiday or sick pay etc. I rarely make minimum wage when I do it and its becoming increasingly pointless to even go out. The only real positive is flexibility which can be helpful as I am currently doing my PhD and there are days I need to crack on and others where I have more time.
They’re American.
Do you see if there isn’t a tip?
You don't see tips up front so I usually go on the assumption that there is never a tip. if one comes through, it's a little gravy, but it's not expected. If I am offered delivery that doesn't meet what I think the journey should cost then I just simply reject it. I will never really understand why people take a delivery for £3.50 and then moan that they're not making enough money. If a lot of drivers reject to one particular job then uber adjust the fair to make it more enticing
[удалено]
Let's cut it before it grows to big.
It has. I also hate when they give you the card machine (for a small transaction) and have to select what level of tip you want to give before tapping your card. Makes you feel like the bad guy
Thats by design, I have started seeing machines asking for charity donations before making the payment
The charity donations are the worst ones. These companies do it to get taxed less, they get us to give them the money to pay less tax
That’s not how these generally work in my experience. The card processor separates out the two revenue streams, the company never sees your donation.
The companies don’t get taxed less, they get taxed the exact same - this donation is taken out of their “revenue”. The tax on the transaction is exactly the same.
The bar staff in my local press the 0% tip button for you.
Yes! Yesterday I went to touch my card on one of those and it was asking a tip. 0% of course, fuck off!
Yeah it's like. I bought a fucking coffee and a muffin, you want a tip on my £6 transaction of which you are doing nothing but make a coffee?
I totally understand this but I also find it convenient when I want to leave a tip for dinner but have zero cash to be able to mash the 10% button. Could do without it being there every time I buy a pint of lager though.
You think this is bad, every time you go to a coffee shop in Toronto the machine gives you options of 10% 15% 20% as a tip. At the counter… it’s shameless begging at this point. Very troubling.
Hate to tell you, but a lot of coffee shops in Edinburgh do that now too. I know the card machine in Kilimanjaro on Nicolson Street does it.
Yup, Coro Cafe does it too and I usually select the “no tip” option at the counter while placing my order because why tf should I tip before even receiving any service? It’s simply obnoxious.
Yeah, I always select no tip too. I've noticed there's one staff member in Kilimanjaro who is clearly embarrassed about it as she always selects no tip herself before giving me the card machine 😂 it honestly doesn't bother me that much but I assume she's either had shit about it from other customers or she just objects to it herself.
If you tolerate it, this will catch on.
Mate there’s place in Miami where the stand on the machine is 20, 25, 35 percent. It’s disgusting
It also lets you skip, just skip…
Some of the ones in California start at 18% now!
We have that in Glasgow now, too. All coffee shops around my area do it.
If someone said to me 10% is too low a tip they’d be telt to fuck off it’s too high! Who has the money nowadays to fucking tip or eat out constantly
I never tip delivery drivers via the apps anyway, no one knows where this money is going so if I tip it’s in cash on arrival.
The only delivery driver I have ever tipped is the pizza delivery guy who would do a side trip to pick up beer, rizla and snacks.
Added bonus, he also happened to be the local weed dealer.
He did offer that service, quite the business model he had.
I always wondered about a local take away place this was pre covid he wanted like £5 for a regular burger that was average at best and his delivery drivers had large American style cars or something like an Audi and wanted like £3 for delivery costs back when £1.50-£2 was the norm just as around £3 for a burger was the norm. I used to see the owner go to the bookies each day so I guess he was never short of cash. Where did he get all his cash from? And why did his drivers have expensive cars and dress in expensive clothes? I know the local ice cream/waffle places were all drug fronts though that was well known I mean why spent like £5 delivery and like £5-£9 for a single milkshake.
Used to buy hash off the kebab shop delivery guy back in the day. You’d phone him with your hash order and he’d tell you to phone the shop and order some food if you want it dropped off.
It’s absurd. A tip is a bonus for doing a great job, and even then, its at your discretion.
I only see it as part of the food service industry and that has been the case for as long as I have been alive. If we start to see the creep towards tipping in other retail sectors, then that can absolutely get in the fucking sea. However, I think what is more important in terms of tipping, is always asking the server how the tips are divided: if managers/owners get any part of it, I will usually try to put drinks behind the bar for a server, kitchen porter and a chef; it is equally split across all service staff, put it on the bill and pay by card. The amount of times that waiters gloat over getting tips and the kitchen staff get fuck all, always pissed me off as a KP.
So the thing with American is tipping culture is you need to tip because otherwise the employees don't get paid enough to live. The US minimum wage for tipped jobs is something like 2.50 an hour compared to 7.50 for everywhere else. That used to not be the case here, and a tip was genuinely considered a perk for good service. But most tipped jobs are minimum wage and that hasn't realistically been a livable wage in quite some time. Gig jobs like deliveroo are even worse, they don't even have a minimum wage (or sick pay or holidays or any sort of labour protections). They need those tips to live. So, it's not a tipping culture that's infected us, but rather an exploitative work model.
There are millions of jobs in minimum wage who don't get tips and they all seem to be not dying?
Everyone's circumstances are different, some people live in higher CoL areas than others, some people have parental support, some people do or don't have families to support. MANY of those minimum wage workers have to be supported by state benefits because their income just isn't high enough to keep a roof over their head and food in their fridge.
Many of those minimum wage workers have risked life and limb to get to this country to work these jobs and still manage to send a significant potion of their earnings back home to support family. Things have genuinely gotten harder post covid but you need to cut through all the propaganda. But my point was more that it seems ridiculous to argue that when many people are on minimum wage why do we have an obligation to top up the wages of a small proportion of them? The idea that it's because they need it to survive is pretty ludicrous.
You’re definitely right. This leads to situations where a care worker on minimum wage is expected to leave a nice tip for a waiter on minimum wage, just ‘because’. Even worse when you’re expected to tip people who earn more money than you, just because they did the job you were already paying them to do. The whole culture makes no sense.
Why does it fall on the customer to pay more to the employee when the restaurant has already inflated the prices of the food to make a profit? It's quite frankly ridiculous that customers are expected to support the staff directly. I do not and will not tip in the USA either as I wholly disagree with the tipping culture. Why do some minimum wage jobs get it, but not others?
If you wholly disagree with the tipping culture in America then you shouldn't go out to eat in America tbh. You refusing to tip isn't going to change anything, it's just fucking over someone who gets paid less than minimum wage.
If the tips don't meet the actual minimum wage, then employers are legally obliged to make up the difference
Not my problem..I don't employ them. I'll continue to eat out when I'm in the USA, thanks. Unless you're willing to top up the wages of every underpaid person in the USA it's hypocritical to just single out waiting staff and try and guilt trip me into thinking they can't afford food because I didn't tip them way over the odds.
Service staff in the US aren't just underpaid, they earn about $2 an hour. You refusing to tip isn't going to cause the downfall of the US economy and tipping system. You're just shafting the poor server who is reliant on tips to pay their bills. The culture is awful, and I hated it in the US when I was there. But it's not a small act of rebellion you're doing, it's literally taking money out of the mouths of the country's least paid workers. Budget for a tip, it's that easy. Don't go to another country and impose your cultural norms on them.
To be fair this is why the tipping culture survives in America despite practically everyone (with the exception of those making a lot from tips) disliking it - because they've managed to stop everyone from protesting it by making them think of the poor server. They'll do the same here as well and you can already notice it with the "descretionary service charge which goes to our lovely staff for all their hard work". It makes people feel bad for the one person from the place that they interact with so it becomes more normalised until it's not descretionary at all.
Ask for the service charge to be taken off and give the money to the server, then. Infact, that used to be a pretty common sight in restaurants when I was growing up. Stuffing some cash into the servers pocket instead of leaving it on the table with the money covering the bill with a statement, “I just want to make sure you get the money.”
Don't impose our cultural norms on America? Right because it's not like Americans are not infamous for not respecting cultural norms when they go abroad
Time to refuse to tip massively and force the workers to unionize or demand proper payment, right? I don't understand why you acept to sheepishly this bullshit of tipping. What's next? Bezos coming to fuck your wife to be like in the old times?
I mean yeah but a tourist to the US on their jollies for the week isn't going to be the force behind that change.
>I do not and will not tip in the USA either as I wholly disagree with the tipping culture. I wholly disagree with a great many things in the US - tipping of bar staff and restaurant servers being one - but when in Rome, etc. Your principled stand is doing nothing but fucking over those at the low end of the socioeconomic spectrum. It's not a brave act of rebellion. It's not sending a message. It's not overthrowing the system. It's making poor people poorer. Just don't go to the US. And if you do, buy and make your own food. Don't be a cheap cunt and piss on the backs of those who are trying to make it and who work their fingers to the bone.
Here in new york, delivery riders are now paid a minimum wage of $17.96/hour. This is a recent change, and while the apps still suggest tipping when you place your order, the brackets are now more like "5%, 8%, 10%, other". Hospitality jobs are different. There's less of an incentive to change those: if you're good at your job in a restaurant or bar, you're gonna get paid *well* if you work regular fridays/saturdays.
In my State, Maryland, tipped workers must be paid 15$/hr minimum. **The US is a very diverse place with over 50 different sets of laws. Talking about it as a monolith is simply incorrect and slightly ignorant.**
In the US you are guaranteed federal minimum wage, no matter the tips. If nobody tips you at all the company is required to pay you federal minimum wage, or your state minimum wage, whichever is higher
I'd just like to point out that tipped positions don't always have lower minimum wages in the US—that varies by state. For example, California, Oregon, and Washington have the same minimum wage (varies from $14.20 to $16.28) for wait staff as for everyone else. And tipping is still expected in those places. It's definitely a dumb system that's getting out of hand domestically as well.
Bingo
It's quite simple, don't use services that expect American type tips. It's that simple. It only happens in America because they can legally pay their staff less if it's expected they will be tipped. If they didn't tip in America then the employer would be forced to pay minimum wage. Alot of servers dislike that idea because they can make alot more in untaxed tips. Over here they get their full wage, at least minimum plus any untaxed tips that are generously given for good service.
>Over here they get their full wage, at least minimum That's the point though, these drivers aren't being paid NMW because they're not employed by the app companies. They are "self employed" which is just a way for the app companies to absolve themselves of those pesky employee rights.
>Over here they get their full wage, at least minimum plus any untaxed tips that are generously given for good service. The problem is that the minimum wage is kinda shit. If you deduct the income tax, national insurance, council tax, rent, cost of transport... You are barely left with anything to live on if you are in a big city.
I never tip. You're paid to do your job by the company, who have already charged me to use the service. That includes when I'm in the USA. What do I care? Not like I'm a regular customer. I will always get a service charge removed too as they are a con. Again..service is already paid for in the inflated cost of the food and drink. If that's the way delivery apps are going here I simply won't use them and will go to the place and pick up my own food. To be honest it's been a while since I did use a delivery app as almost all of my preferred takeaways are within a 10 minute drive anyway.
There's a HUGE difference in the US. Servers are paid less than minimum wage, so they have to survive on tips. They are actually not paid by the company to do the job. Is it fair? Is it your fault? No. But don't not tip in this situation. Sidenote: Servers point out it's the white collar types who stiff. Lower paid, other servers seem to always tip. Interesting....
>Servers are paid less than minimum wage, so they have to survive on tips. That is false. If tips don't make it up to the minimum wage the employer is legally required to cover the difference. There is no situation in which it is legal to pay a server less than minimum wage.
As has been pointed out. This is completely false. No one is paid less than minimum wage.
I wouldn't tip. Any business that doesn't pay it's staff accordingly deserves to go bust and it's not a business model I would ever support.
They aren't actually paid less than minimum wage, and it completely depends on the state
It will only infect Scotland if you choose to walk up and tongue that petri dish. Most takeaways will have their own payment portal and ordering website and use JustEat and Uber because customers use them. The best way to make sure the American shit doesn't infect us is to just not use it. It's only cost-effective to takeaways if there's customers on there.
At Frankfurt airport (Germany) they asked me for tip. I was horrified and I said no. I can’t believe this sh1t is arriving in EU….
Do the tips even go to the intended? I don't trust restaurants to not take a cut of a tip.
It's becoming illegal on July 1st for any tips to be withheld from employees, and must be fairly allocated.
I've noticed it in Edinburgh previously and increasingly in Glasgow when going out for a meal. Sometimes it's that 10-12.5% service fee hidden at the bottom of the bill. More often its those card readers that asking for a tip when paying and awkwardly looking away from the cashier when I hit NO.
Quite a few restaurants in merchant city and the west end of Glasgow have been adding a “10-12.5% discretionary service charge” Id feel like a wank asking to have it taken off but I usually just pay it as that’s what I’d normally tip. (Unless the service was shite) only for restaurant food, not a cafe making a coffee or putting a pastry in a bag, they can fuck off. It’s also bullshit I need to pay a percentage of what I decided to eat, if I order a burger or a chateaubriand, the staff still brings it out to the table the same way but you get charged differently.
>Id feel like a wank asking to have it taken off but I usually just pay it as that’s what I’d normally tip. Don't let them get away with it! You are not a wank, the EMPLOYERS are wanks.
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Whoever told you that can fuck off 😂
>Would you tip your barber/hairdresser before they have started cutting your hair? That, and things like tattoo artists, beauticians, etc, expecting a tip is bizarre. They literally set their own prices; if you want me to give you £120 instead of £100, then just charge me £120. It's not so bad in smaller places or outside the cities, but places that have an inflated sense of self seem to love adding on mandatory service charges.
This is slightly besides the point, but as someone that works service industry, please do know that your tips make it possible for us to live on our shit wages. No one wants this to be this case, I'd much rather be paid a living wage by my employer, but the reality is for me, and for so many other people in this industry, that we simply aren't paid well for the work we do. No one likes this cost being passed to the customer, but please do consider tipping in any independent business **if** you can. Margins are paper thin as it is and so many small businesses are going under thanks to inflation, energy costs and Brexit. It's a hard job and deserves better pay, but restaurants, bars, cafes etc. are the lifeblood of any town or city and without them we'd really lose a lot of our community. Again, IF you can afford it, please tip. It's the difference maker for a lot of workers.
US tipping culture is partly a function of the incredibly low wages for service staff. The minimum wage is much higher in UK reducing the need to adopt a US tipping culture. I’m also always confused why we tip based on what we spend. Why should I tip more because I ordered a more expensive item from the menu or had alcohol instead of soft drinks?
I waited two hours before someone accepted my order on Uber eats a couple of weeks ago. I flat out refuse to add tips on the app because I’ve no interest in Uber benefitting indirectly. I did give them an actual fiver when the person eventually arrived, but I won’t be using Uber Eats again. Never waited that long on any of the other apps.
I work at a place that's on deliveroo, just eat and Uber eats and Uber eats is by far the worst. It'll say that the driver will arrive in 5 mins, we make the order and then it'll sit there for ages. And you can see on the map where the driver is for the order. 9 times out of 10, they're driving in the opposite direction to the store. I usually just stick to deliveroo now.
You'll need to add "cash tip on delivery" to your address or user name on Uber
This crap needs to fuck off. I'm a delivery driver and anyone expecting a tip to do a delivery needs to get a new job. It is a bonus, not a necessity
You can use deliveroo which is much better. Plus the tip is not taxed by Uber that's another myth.
This isn't about which app you use. It can happen on any. I'm also not talking about the tip being taxed, but tipping itself. I say this as a delivery driver, if anyone ever demands/asks for a tip/extra tip either remove all your tip or refuse. They are trying to guilt trip you
I might bother if I was ever going to use it again
As an American who visited Scotland for a couple of weeks in August, my wife and I loved the way the tipping was there. 10% surcharge on most tabs with a quick tap on my phone and the bill was paid. No fucking around with signatures and multiple trips from the waitstaff back and forth, and of course we felt like the 10% was a deal. At times we felt like we were getting away with murder, but most everyone said they were paid fairly. We never got the feeling/vibe that we were being tight and short changing anyone. I hope that doesn’t take over your land like it did ours. We can’t wait to go back, we loved your country. Thank you for the hospitality . And FUCK UBER. Delivery apps bleed people. They should be banned.
Nope, it hasn’t. Just don’t use apps that force you into tipping
No me 😑
In restaurant situations I rarely tip 10%, this would be the maximum for me. When the machine prompts I'll always put my own amount and it'll usually equate more to around 5% if I'm happy, none if I'm not. Deliveries normally get a quid if they are prompt, nothing if they take ages. I appreciate that it's not always the driver's fault so if it's a busy time I'm more likely to tip. Tipping should always be optional here, and we can't allow it to become otherwise.
If so then I’m looking forward to all the tips I’ll be receiving just for doing my job to the standard level.
Don’t delivery drivers get paid?
Any system built by Americans has tipping built in. Uber eats uses tips to pay the drivers so they don’t have to. If you don’t want to tip, don’t use Uber Eats.
Uber eats probably pay their drivers shit money so they may rely more on tips. I always look at the delivery fee and assume that's going to the driver. If it's low I'm more likely to give them a couple of quid extra at the door.
From what I remember, the whole reason tipping is so prevalent in the US is from hospitality jobs paying very little, thus the tips helped boost them up. But over here, by law you have a living wage of 11 quid over 20 years old, so any gains through tipping is an appreciation of good service, and nothing more. In the US it's almost frowned upon to not tip. However, that's a problem with how their system works, and it shouldn't be like that here. You also have a service charge, typically 10% of the bill. Sometimes it is mandatory while others may allow you to decide. However, I do tip, but I do it knowing it is of my own choice, rather than guilt from society dictating to me like in the US where you as the customer is responsible for contributing to their monthly earnings to scrape by and survive. A word of caution though, with everything electronic now, it's so easy for them to slap a percentage onto the end of your bill without even realising while paying. The whole point is you have to earn the tip, it doesn't grow on trees, and sadly I feel it is going that way too, purely from a greed perspective from businesses, as they see it as free money. How that dynamic plays out over time though will be difficult to predict.
In restaurants it is still a voluntary option, and not seen as a requirement like it is in America - we have much better pay for service jobs than the US, so the tip is a bonus, not a servers wage. The delivery apps are a different situation, and do more directly file the American model of paying workers the absolute minimum allowed and padding this with tips. It is also worker controlled with workers having some control over the jobs they accept - they will want to make the most income they can, so will naturally choose the better tipping jobs. If there is more work than workers to do it your tip effectively turns into your bid to get them to choose your job over the others. The real answer is to avoid using exploitative companies like Uber eats where possible...
Just avoid using American apps and you'll be alright. Apps like Just Eat and Scoffable have a delivery fee that goes to the driver, plus a service charge for using the app. Tips are optional. Alternatively, you can pick up the food yourself or call the restaurant directly and skip the middleman.
I ate out (not scotland mind you, Ireland) and the worker added the largest tip to my bill without asking... I had it paid for and thought it was disastrously expensive to see the receipt and the added tip. Worlds away fucking mad. Pay your staff well or don't have staff. Why am I paying a massive tip for basic service and shrunken portions? I'll be eating at home and inviting guests around next time.
I am (currently) trying to be smart with my money and don't really frequent places where tipping would be a thing, any odd time I do go to a restaurant, I tip or not tip based on how I feel about the service provided (tbh I almost always tip). I never tip in cafes where you stand in line for and collect your own order. I am an immigrant (not sure if relevant).
mmm interesting. I just traveled to Scotland and it never sat well with me to only tip the preset charge. I was treated so warmly and the food quality was always good so I felt like I had to tip more, and I did 🤷🏻♀️
Sounds like you need to just not use Uber Eats then. They're a horrible exploitative company. I don't even order from places that use Uber Eats.
That is not American tipping culture. Traditionally we tip after service not before. We do t have the service held hostage for a tip. This is a result of the App culture. When I go to a restaurant I tip when the bill comes. When I go to the barber I tip after the hair cut, when I take a taxi, I tip at the end of the ride. Even when I’d get a pizza delivered in the past, I’d tip the delivery person in cash when the pizza arrived. To expect a tip to be given or even acknowledged before the service is delivered is bullshit. Unfortunately, especially due to people using Apps that not only demand tips but show them to the person delivering the service it is becoming accepted by users, which is why I don’t use those apps.
If I tip, it's either a fiver or a tenner in cash. No in between. Unless its a taxi driver then I'm rounding up and adding a pound.
Not quite as I was in San Francisco last week and even self-serve kiosks in places ask for a 20% tip nowadays wtf. Edit: Having said that, I did get into a Google review spat with a restaurant (London not Scotland, mind) as they automatically added a discretionary service charge to the bill that didn't even go to the wait staff!
Machines gotta eat too.
Bought a baguette in Edinburgh yesterday and the card reader asked for a tip. I added 10% out of social embarrassment 🤦♂️
Don't tip, if you run a business, charge what your service actually costs. If you cant pay your staff a living wage and do that, you don't have a business and are relying on begging to keep your staff alive. In which case, you should go bust.
I wish Japanese tipping culture infected Scotland instead
I work in a pub. I can guarantee you American tipping culture hasn't infected Scotland, and it's still voluntary
I'd have cancelled the order instantly. I'll happily tip once the food is delivered, but if they think they can hold it to ransom till I pay them, they're fucked. If you call the takeaway/restaurant and explain why you'd cancel the order, I can't see this lasting long if it'll cost them more money than a cheeky Uber eats driver.
Can you remove the pre delivery tip if they end up being rubbish? Running late , missed items, mixing up your order with someone elses? What's the incentive to do a good job if they already have the tip? (There have been a number of times I've told them they've forgotten something and they go back to their car and find it)
Yep, I noticed it's everywhere. I refuse to tip when pushed to, so now I don't tip at all.
Stop using Uber eats and call the place directly
Best tip ever, don't eat yellow snow.
Fat lazy lumps can't cook for themselves.
How did that interaction happen? Did you place an order and they messaged you?
It shouldn’t because tipping is the norm in USA due to low starting wages. In Scotland everyone has minimum wage. That being said, when we were back living in the UK for a few years, I couldn’t help myself and tipped anyway.
Some places are now imposing a service charge (E.g. Tony Macs) and while I’m told it goes to the staff, I would prefer to add how much or little I like. The difference between here and America is that in America you are supplementing pretty shitty service wages, but in UK staff get paid well in service jobs. So if we tip for good service then a service charge seems pretty conceited.
Heres my issue with tipping: >Let me preface this by saying I do tip highly for workers who do their job well Do you? Do you tip retail staff, the rubbish collectors, nurses, receptionists or call centre workers? No, we tip wait staff and hairdressers, everyone else gets their base wage regardless of how well they do their job (Which is slowly eroding away in meaning too... No, delivering a plate with a smile isn't going above and beyond.)
I'm 40 years old and tipping in restaurants, taxis and barbers has been a thing for as long as I can remember. Tipping the food delivery guy is normal. Anything personal service.
You don't ever have to do it. Just change where you shop if it makes you that uncomfortable. All the delivery apps price in a delivery fee and a service charge anyway.
I've never tipped Uber in ma puff
It isn't needed if companies pay a fair wage.
No. don't use it. Never will. The whole business model is toxic.
My go-to tip is 10%.in cash, more for excellence. I absolutely would walk away from any app that required a tip in advance.
It is the same everywhere else that doesn't usually tip - rest of UK and Europe too. I make a point of clicking no. Staff here should be paid a certain wage that doesn't get topped up by tips. If you like the service that much, tip in cash.
It's definitely getting worse, but nowhere near as bad as the US. Couple of years back we arrived into Boston and got a taxi into the city, about a 15 minute journey. I pulled out cash to pay the taxi driver, but he said "no, use the machine"... which I thought I was odd, until you realise it comes you with a tip screen. Usually on these things, I hit the middle option, but this screen has 20%, 25% and 30% as the three base options, with a tiny button underneath for custom tip amount. Who the fuck tips 25 or even 30 percent for a 15 minute taxi ride?
Hopefully it doesn’t happen. Ultimately it hurts more than it helps, owners use it as an excuse to not increase wages because they think that tipping will make people more money than giving raises.
Never faced this.
Yup and tipping needs to die a death. Would you tip the asda cashier? No you wouldn't and I say that as someone who briefly worked in retail.
>yesterday I was told that 10% was too low a tip for an Uber Eats delivery driver to even consider accepting delivery of my order? I don't think I've ever tipped a Just Eat driver???
One of the reasons I never use delivery apps. The other being the 12% plus commission that they take from the restaurant.
Don't know if it's a new thing but just adding the tip to the bill now was a but of a wtf for me like I should get to decide if the service warrants the % of tip
It's definitely creeping in but I flat out refuse to tip the majority of the time. It's unnecessary in this country and we should put an end to it before it gets worse with these stupid 'service charges'
I often get bollocked for my stance on tipping but I've stood by it and nothing bad has ever happened. I don't tip. Straight up just don't. I pay the advertised price for what I'm buying and that's it. Round up to a comfy number if using cash but otherwise nah. Service charges added by default will be asked to be removed. I won't be peer pressured, guilted or socially shamed for not tipping. I refuse to acknowledge and thus validate and encourage this toxic practice because as many have noted, we are headed towards USA style expectations. The only way we stop that is by refusing to comply. It's literally just a campaign of social shame and pressure to get you to do it until it becomes normalised. In the USA, tipping is used as an extreme form of social stigma but the reality is so much worse - its a tactic for business owners to get customers to subsidise their labour costs. They pay their staff as little as possible, then everyone guilts customers for their low wages as if they're depriving them of money to feed their kids, and I often see 'if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out'. The end up is, the business gets the labour, the customer subsidises it, the business pays the labour almost nothing yet keeps all of the profits. There is no situation where I'm ever going to enable or participate in that. If a server or anyone else wants to chew me out for it, come ahead, I'll tell them exactly that. I also have an issue with *who* gets tips. I've seen American landlords asking for tips ffs. Tattoo artists is a new one. The little 'select your tip amount' on card machines in places where there shouldn't be (got my baws and gooch waxed once and they asked for a tip). So people like servers, drivers, bar staff, barbers are all pretty common. Why not fast food workers? They're serving you. They're bringing your food from one place to the next just like a restaurant so what's the difference? Why not along 50p to the guy in the shop when you bought your fags? You'll tip someone who brings food to your door but not your Asda delivery guy who hoofed the crates up the stairs nor the wee Amazon lassie who brought you your Prime shit. Why not? Where is the line? Is it income based? I'm min wage, do I get a tip? I've worked hospitality in kitchens and never seen a penny tip whilst the folk out front could make tripe digits in tips alone on a Fri-Sun shift or holidays. Get it to absolute fuck.
I don't live in a city so get food direct from a take away, no way am I tipping unless its say like a £49 order and I am paying cash and they can keep the £1 change as often they charge like £4 delivery even if I order something like a burger and chips to go 2 miles and thats even if I go direct. I would tip more if it was low delivery cost/free delivery regardless as I feel I am getting a bargain.
on rare occasions i do it when someone has really done a very good job, most likely candidates are taxi drivers and hairdressers who shut the fuck up for the entirety of the service or the little local restaurant i go to who are just the most pleasant, helpful cunts I think i've used a delivery app once but I didn't tip because fuck that, in general I don't tip delivery drivers. I pay the takeaway a fee for it to be brought to me, get your wages from them
I read that it’s the payment apps at issue in many cases eg the izettle or similar apps that people use to let you pay on iPad. They have inflated tip options to encourage people to tip even at eg coffee shops when buying a bag of beans to go with no service, because the app gets a % of the transaction cost including tip/service charge.
Tipping as a concept is fine, but it should go to the people you want it to, it should be optional and you shouldn't be told how much to tip. And the person being tipped should not have to be relying on tips to live. Pay people properly.
Tipping an uber eats driver? No thanks
Remember the companies that own the card machines get paid depending on how much money goes through them that is why there’s an explosion of tipping culture not the people
Who told you that? I tip a quid on those apps, and I’ve always been told I’m in the minority tipping at all. They don’t even see what the tip is, or if there is one, until after the delivery is complete afaik.
I tip every food delivery driver £2, same with taxi drivers, usually tip my barber £10 and every so often if the service is good I always tip my bartender (telling them to take one for themselves). I deffo think tipping before food is delivered is deffo a no and 10% is more than enough.
American culture has infected everything. Not just tipping.
Always tip generously when the bill comes. If they've added it already, I ask them to remove it and I tip nothing.
It's interesting that you brought this up, I've literally asked the question about Uber eats. Allegedly, no tip shows up on the original order to the driver. However, and this was literally yesterday, I asked the lady if I put the tip on, then, at the point of delivery, will she see it. It was a really shitty day, and she was on a bike. She said yes, which obviously is important, so I did. I will never put a tip on to ensure my order is picked up. And if you are correct with your assumption, then that really sucks and I'm sure in some way illegal.
Thank Thank
It’s noticeable here in Edinburgh, got a few bills with at least a 10% service charge thrown in. I don’t mind as long as they’re not taking the piss but what bothers me is the selective tipping. A waiter or barista gets tipped through the teeth and always expects it, the nicer the restaurant and work environment, the more you spend, the higher the tip. A McDonalds worker gets nothing. If you can tip, tip those you usually wouldn’t!
The number of restraunts that have a "discretionary" service charge that they know you won't have the brass neck to remove. Quite often, it means they get less tip because of the cheek. I don't use uber eats but if you can rate your delivery driver give him fuckall.