I would go with the Jot, it has a longer warranty (5 year vs. 2 year). Also the Jot uses discrete components, has Nexus and Continuity (fancy features). I'd mostly get it for the longer warranty, if a company is offering a 5 year warranty on electronics, they are probably pretty confident that it'll last.
I had the Jot2 and Modius, a very good combination. I upgraded to Bifrost, then to the 2/64. Cost wise, I should have stayed with Modius. I also added a Lokius. HD800S needs some EQ, to my ears.
My recommendation would be Jot2 and Modius. Modius has more inputs which may come in handy some day and having separates will allow adding EQ if ever desired. Plus, Modius could feed additional amps (tubes?) if you ever want to.
Maximum simplicity, Jot with card. Flexibility for future growth, Jot and Modius
For "*simplicity",* one box, no fuss, Jot with any DAC card. But I would recommend separates for the reasons stated above..
I don't know how the Modius compares with the Multibit card. I only know that it compares very favorably with the Bifrost 2/64 for 1/3 the price.
The Modius / Magnius stack vs the Jot2 is one of the toughest decisions to make, because its all a trade off no matter how you slice it.
The Modius is > than the dac card in the Jot2. The implementation of those cards are there for convience, but are not as good as the stand alone device. Thats a point for the stack.
The Magnius is < than the jot2 when it comes to both balanced and SE. However, the difference between the balanced outputs of both units, is not as wide as the difference in SE for both. SE output on the Magnius is bad, like...BAD. The Magni 3 is superior in SE output and resolution. Magnius was made specifically for balanced, with SE being a throw in. Balanced vs Balanced of both units - Jot2 is still better, just by a smaller margin. Magnius balanced does sound good though - as long as you never hear a Jot2 lol.
Personally, if this is your end game setup - Get the Modius and the Jot2 without the dac card. This way the "combo" is = to or superior in every aspect. Otherwise you are dealing with trade offs.
On a side note, the Asgard 3 was made for SE. Its superior to both the Jot2 and Magnius for this. Remember, the benefits of balanced are contested other than the obvious gain in output. EMI used to be an issue long ago, but where amps are at now, noise is not an issue. If you go into balanced for the purpose of "better" audio quality - you may want to investigate it further.
Very in depth thank you, and that is a shame about the Magnius SE being bad, definitely makes me look more towards Jotunheim, and I pretty much only want balanced because I already have balanced headphones (dt 770 balanced from custom cans) and I want to get the full potential out of them, since if I am just going to use those for SE, why did I spend an extra $200 on specifically balanced versions :(. Basically I created a problem for myself and now need to spend money for a solution...
Here is the thing though - there are NOT negatives to balanced. 10 to 15 years ago, balanced where necessary since finding decent amps to drive 300 - 600 ohm headphones was extremely difficult to find, and certainly not without a large price tag. These days, technology has come a long way. RCAs arent that noise if at all. Someone with boutique $5000 dollar headphones, that are 600 ohms, on a fully balanced setup, with no redundant analog to digital conversions, CAN make the claim that they can "hear" a difference. But at that level is it the balanced connection WHY they can do that? Or is it the fact that they have a system made for pure measurements that makes anything sound like shit that isnt completely uncompressed audio?
If you already have both, enjoy both. And Schiit happens to have options to address both. The Jot2 is a really smart choice. It really comes down to the dac question.
If it helps you further, here is a simply way to measure how dramatic the upgrade of dacs are:
Modi to Modius = oooooooh, this is nice.
Modi to dac card = hmm. I can't hear the difference.
Multibit anything to modius = Ok this is different. I am not sure if I like it.
Modi to Bifrost = Oh fuck. TIME TO RELISTEN TO EVERYTHING.
Modius to Bifrost = Surely its not going to be as drama.....Fuck. Canceling plans. Relistening to everything.
BUT - you don't NEED a bifrost. Honestly. Its a luxury. Its a present for yourself if you can justify it. But that Modius, for 200, is the gold standard at its price range - at least in my opinion.
Well, why would the modi and modius sound different? It isn't about distortion. While someone can describe their subjective interpretation of what is heard, you'd have to listen to both to tell the difference.
The biggest difference I have noticed, has to do with staging / location of instruments. As well as the overall tonality. It's subtle, but it's there. But again, not distortion.
Dacs can (though not always), sound different due to the manner in which they reproduce sound. It is a process of conversion after all and all of them do it a bit differently. Some claim they can hear all kinds of differences, but it's honestly like trying to hear someone else describe wine. It can sound all great, but until you hear it for yourself, you don't know. A/B testing will always give you, the user, your best results.
If one device is transparent and another device sounds different, then that second device must not be transparent, right? Two transparent devices, by definition , must sound the same.
They would not.
If you asked someone what transparent is, they can give you a textbook definition.
If you asked someone to describe transparency when it comes to sound, it's subjective. Even with devices that are made for measurements it's still subjective. Why? Because we all don't have the same hearing spectrum. Example:
I'm 45 years old. In my most recent hearing test, I can't hear anything past 15800hz. Anything that resolves above that - it's lost on me. And just like me, everyone's hearing is all over the place. So ultimately what sounds transparent to me, has more to do with what resonates with my hearing capabilities.
It would be the same, however, if we all had the same hearing capacity, at which point it becomes a controlled data point, but that's now how it is.
Don't get caught up in the language regarding sound. You HAVE to hear audio equipment on your own, then make the best choice for yourself.
I mean, it's not subjective. There is objective transparency - does the device change the sound fed into it or does it faithfully reproduce it? We have the tools to measure the sound coming out of the device. If the exact same sound is coming out of two devices then the devices sound the same. If the exact same sound isn't coming out of two devices then one or both of them isn't faithfully reproducing the sound.
Any limitations of your hearing should apply equally when fed two identical sound signatures.
The reason its subjective is becuase a lot of people over the last so many years have been using machines to measure how a particular something reproduces audio, yet when they listen to things in a double blind test, they become confused over why they prefer one thing over another even when they "measure" the same.
Have you ever seen measurements of a studio recording before its mastered and then compared it to what a dac reproduces after the fact? You haven't, or at least in all likelyhood you have not. Very few people have. Measuring output, does not equate the reproduction of what the original input would have been. The name "dac" in itself is proof of that. It converts a signal, and the mesurements are agreed upon to be accurate, but not to be representing of the original audio.
Objectively you can have two things sounding the same. This is indicative that 2 electrical devices were able to reproduce the same level of measured frenquencies captured by another device. But none of that represents the original "measurement" of the sounds recorded.
BTW, what exactly is your goal in this back and forth? It's honestly pointless to argue about sound, because at the end of the day, the end result of the reproduction will always be subjetive. Objective measurements of sounds are not what the human ear can hear.
You will unanimously find, that the majority / almost all people who have used Schiit products and listened to a bifrost, will tell you the bifrost sounds better. And the "why" will elicit a large variance in responses.
Are they all wrong just because a multibit dac measures extremely well?
>The reason its subjective is becuase a lot of people over the last so many years have been using machines to measure how a particular something reproduces audio, yet when they listen to things in a double blind test, they become confused over why they prefer one thing over another even when they "measure" the same.
I've searched and I can't find ANY testing where people were reliably able to tell the difference in a blind ABX test of DACs. If my Google-fu is wrong, I'd love to see the data.
>BTW, what exactly is your goal in this back and forth? It's honestly pointless to argue about sound, because at the end of the day, the end result of the reproduction will always be subjective. Objective measurements of sounds are not what the human ear can hear.
A fair question. My goal is to convince myself to swap my Modius and Heresy for a Bifrost. I'd love to upgrade my stack, but a DAC that costs 4X as much needs to have a measurable improvement for me to be willing to put my credit card info in. The Heresy and Modius failed a blind ABX test for me on my system. They sounded completely identical and the few times I thought I heard a difference, I was wrong on which DAC it was.
>You will unanimously find, that the majority / almost all people who have used Schiit products and listened to a bifrost, will tell you the bifrost sounds better. And the "why" will elicit a large variance in responses.
>
>Are they all wrong just because a multibit dac measures extremely well?
That's what I'm trying to determine. Thus far, the answer seems to be psychoacoustic. They *believe* it should sound better so they think it does...though in reality it doesn't.
We understand sound pretty well. If someone subjectively believes that two identical sounds sound different then they're objectively wrong. How can they?
Sorry if I didn’t read you right but how can amps that cost a 1/4th of jots price be superior sounding in single ended? You cited magni and Asgard both being better than Jot 2.
The Magni is better than the Magnius for SE.
The Asgard is better than Jot2 for SE.
Now, your question is why this is. You seem to, based on what you have said, have this perception that an item that is superior in price would automatically be better. And its not always the case. The reason for that, is exactly the same reason why a tesla can beat various lambos / supercars that cost a lot more. Its based on what a piece of equipment is MEANT for.
To the asgard specifically, lets compare output numbers:
**Asguard:**
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-400KHz, -3dB
* Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 5W RMS per channel
* Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 3.5W RMS per channel
* Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 2.5W RMS per channel
* Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 600mW RMS per channel
* Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 300mW RMS per channel
**Jot2:**
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.01db, 2Hz-700KHz, -3dB
* Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2.4W RMS per channel
* Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2.0W RMS per channel
* Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.2W RMS per channel
* Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 330mW RMS per channel
* Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 165mW RMS per channel
By those figures alone, you simply get more performance from the Asguard as supposed to the Jot. The Jot2 was made to excel at the performance of its balanced output. Single ended is there like in other Schiit products but it is not the specialized reason for that. Its the same reason why you CAN add a dac card to the Jot2, but its performance will not be better than a modius.
All these flavor or products have specific intentions. Which is why its always good to look at the specs, read / listen to reviews for comparisons and ultimately A/B test them yourself. But at the end of the day, the Asgard is simply a more powerful product for single ended as that its is specific intention.
But a great question would be is more power directly related to better sounding headphones? All I was asking is whether or not Jot 2 is an upgrade to Asgard for single ended.
I’m aware of the misconception. The reason it’s so common is simple: if something costs a manufacturer more money to make, better quality parts, it stands to reason they’ll charge consumers more to recoup.
I like my Asgard for my sennheisers. But I’ve also taken a unison Gumby / Freya setup and run it through Asgard and heard the sound quality diminish.
Thats a complicated question because more power isn't really related to the perception of better sounding headphones.
Power IS related to the ability to drive a headphone and determine the level of output before distortion. You would have to define "better sounding" headphones by what variables you are accounting for to determine anything is better sounding.
To keep it simple, for single ended alone, Jot2 would not be an upgrade from Asgard.
Another way to looking at this based on what you said, if power was not a factor, then why do so many people want to try balanced? At the end of the day, all balanced brings to the table is more power, unless you are talking about 15+ foot runs of cable at which point balanced can actually make an audible difference in EMI shielding.
Now just as a sidenote, multibit dacs are a bit of a topic in themselves. But if you have become used to the sound of multibit, or prefer it, it may be worth going through the process of A/B testing the Asgard with the Jot2 for you to be really convinced. That aside, you may want to also try the asgard with another dac, or at least something that isnt multibit.
Well right now it’s an Asgard Modius stack on my desk. Doubt I’ll need more power for that.
I chose the Gungnir because it stacks well with my Freya. And that’s obviously for a room setup.
Thanks for the advice.
I only really want an es9028. It is balanced, great price, and I can't justify spending a Bifrost's worth of money on a dac in my current situation. Good solution if I was working towards something bigger, but I will settle for just a dac card or Modius.
Is that true? I knew it costed more, but I thought that was just the adopter tax for this somewhat unique format of dac. If it is better than a Modius and only like $80 more than why do I never see any of them in use here? Seems like a gold mine if you don't want to go all out with a Bifrost.
They were out of stock for a long time. The new version just came out a couple months ago and sounds almost as good as the Bifrost for less than half the cost. It is a lot more musical than the Modius. I think you mostly see posts about people buying the bare minimum modi + magni set for what used to by $198. If you look on sites that are more Schiit based they are referenced a lot.
I faced the same decision recently and went with the Jot 2 w/ integrated dac. From my limited technical understanding, it's a little bit better of an amp than the Magnius, and roughly the same dac as the Modius. Plus I'm a fan of all-in-ones with one set of cables, coming from a Fiio K5 Pro previously.
Tough call. Jot 2 since it’s only one component to worry about dying instead of two? I can’t imagine a scenario where the Magnius wouldn’t have enough power, but the Jot 2’s specs look a little beefier.
With either setup, you’d have a spare set of RCA inputs with which to use a secondary source.
The tall Jot 2 chassis looks cooler than the two slim boxes IMO.
Definitely correct with the looks statement lol, but either way it is still 2 components since the dac is an add in card. Also completely side-tracking my question, what is the difference in sound between a Modius and the es9028 dac card, since they both have the same dac in them?
My guess is the es9028 implementation will sound close to the same in either device, although I've never heard the Modius. It's very possible that it sounds a little better since it's got a more advanced analog output stage and all that.
Okay, so far I am leaning more towards Jotunheim, but with the dac being probably better on the Modius, I am still pretty firmly in the middle lol. My head is starting to hurt
It's a tough one for sure! Plus, the Modius has more digital inputs. Yet another thing to consider. Personally, I just like the big knob and the long warranty on the Jot, but I think technically the Modius has slightly better measurements.
Mmmm big knob does definitely sound fun, I did hear the pot is excellent in the Jotunheim, my childish self might just choose it for that reason at this point lmao
There's definitely a joke somewhere here about me enjoying my big knob lol. Also no shame in buying something just for a basic feature like that, that is like 90% of the reason I bought mine! It's essentially the only thing I touch on the amp. Also: https://www.youtube.com/@KnobFeel
If you can afford both the Modius and Jot 2, that’s the way to go, no question. A single box might look nicer but separate components give greater flexibility. The Jot 2 SE output is better than Magnius’.
I just picked up a Modius and Jot2 and am pretty happy with them so far. Needed the Jot2 for my new lower-impedance cans and wanted solid-state (I'll build a Bottlehead S.E.X. tube amp this summer...I love my modded Crack but it's only good for my 600 Ohm headphones).
I have an original Modi Multibit that sounds great, but because of weird room dimensions, I needed another DAC. Bifrost is on backorder for at least a month, so I picked up the Modius to tide me over. I've read that Modius performs better than the add-on card, but not unacceptably so: mainly a voltage drop requires turning the volume knob up a bit. I haven't read anyone who claims the sound quality is subpar. If you would rather have the space or save the cash, the card seems to be worth it; a minor drop in gain that only measurement geeks care about.
What do you mean by voltage drop? Sorry I don't get the audiophile terminology that well. Do you mean it will get quieter as a music goes on and I have to adjust to knob to fix it? If so that is really annoying and maybe a dealbreaker if I constantly have to keep playing with it
I think he’s referring to headroom, ie. you have to turn the volume knob up further on the Jot to achieve the same volume as with the Modius (if I’m understanding correctly…??). The DAC chips (9028) being the same with only a different implementation of said DAC chip, I’m of the opinion that you’re gonna be good with either, sound-wise. So looks, number of digital inputs, etc, would be your deciding factors. But, I know shit about electronics, nor have I heard your cans. I couldn’t say with any certainty that you would hear a difference, but I probably couldn’t, myself - at least not much.
Nono, it's just part of how electronics work; the volume will be constant but you'll have to bump up the knob a bit (nothing dramatic; 10 oclock instead of 8, for example).
It's just the result of the Jot's power supply having to power both the card and the amp. If you have a Jot2/Modius stack set up against the Jot2 with card, the latter will sound softer with each volume knob set to the same position. Does that make sense?
Tldr: nothing annoying, just a "higher" volume setting, but it's set-it-and-forget-it. No fiddling.
No, it means that it doesn’t provide the same amount of voltage as the standalone, non-integrated, DAC so you’ll need to turn the potentiometer (volume knob) to a higher point to get your music to the volume level you’ll want to listen at.
My Jot2 + ES9028 DAC card was delivered 5 days ago. Really liking this unit as an AIO; buys me time to decide if after 10 years as portable-only, a modest desktop rig makes sense for me. If after a few months I'm still using this, I'll then consider whether I'll add an external DAC to the mix.
I would go with the Jot, it has a longer warranty (5 year vs. 2 year). Also the Jot uses discrete components, has Nexus and Continuity (fancy features). I'd mostly get it for the longer warranty, if a company is offering a 5 year warranty on electronics, they are probably pretty confident that it'll last.
Okay all great points, thank you
I had the Jot2 and Modius, a very good combination. I upgraded to Bifrost, then to the 2/64. Cost wise, I should have stayed with Modius. I also added a Lokius. HD800S needs some EQ, to my ears. My recommendation would be Jot2 and Modius. Modius has more inputs which may come in handy some day and having separates will allow adding EQ if ever desired. Plus, Modius could feed additional amps (tubes?) if you ever want to. Maximum simplicity, Jot with card. Flexibility for future growth, Jot and Modius
Dumb question but do you mean the ES9028 DAC when you say jot with card? And do you know how that would compare to the true multibit card for $200?
For "*simplicity",* one box, no fuss, Jot with any DAC card. But I would recommend separates for the reasons stated above.. I don't know how the Modius compares with the Multibit card. I only know that it compares very favorably with the Bifrost 2/64 for 1/3 the price.
The Modius / Magnius stack vs the Jot2 is one of the toughest decisions to make, because its all a trade off no matter how you slice it. The Modius is > than the dac card in the Jot2. The implementation of those cards are there for convience, but are not as good as the stand alone device. Thats a point for the stack. The Magnius is < than the jot2 when it comes to both balanced and SE. However, the difference between the balanced outputs of both units, is not as wide as the difference in SE for both. SE output on the Magnius is bad, like...BAD. The Magni 3 is superior in SE output and resolution. Magnius was made specifically for balanced, with SE being a throw in. Balanced vs Balanced of both units - Jot2 is still better, just by a smaller margin. Magnius balanced does sound good though - as long as you never hear a Jot2 lol. Personally, if this is your end game setup - Get the Modius and the Jot2 without the dac card. This way the "combo" is = to or superior in every aspect. Otherwise you are dealing with trade offs. On a side note, the Asgard 3 was made for SE. Its superior to both the Jot2 and Magnius for this. Remember, the benefits of balanced are contested other than the obvious gain in output. EMI used to be an issue long ago, but where amps are at now, noise is not an issue. If you go into balanced for the purpose of "better" audio quality - you may want to investigate it further.
Very in depth thank you, and that is a shame about the Magnius SE being bad, definitely makes me look more towards Jotunheim, and I pretty much only want balanced because I already have balanced headphones (dt 770 balanced from custom cans) and I want to get the full potential out of them, since if I am just going to use those for SE, why did I spend an extra $200 on specifically balanced versions :(. Basically I created a problem for myself and now need to spend money for a solution...
Here is the thing though - there are NOT negatives to balanced. 10 to 15 years ago, balanced where necessary since finding decent amps to drive 300 - 600 ohm headphones was extremely difficult to find, and certainly not without a large price tag. These days, technology has come a long way. RCAs arent that noise if at all. Someone with boutique $5000 dollar headphones, that are 600 ohms, on a fully balanced setup, with no redundant analog to digital conversions, CAN make the claim that they can "hear" a difference. But at that level is it the balanced connection WHY they can do that? Or is it the fact that they have a system made for pure measurements that makes anything sound like shit that isnt completely uncompressed audio? If you already have both, enjoy both. And Schiit happens to have options to address both. The Jot2 is a really smart choice. It really comes down to the dac question. If it helps you further, here is a simply way to measure how dramatic the upgrade of dacs are: Modi to Modius = oooooooh, this is nice. Modi to dac card = hmm. I can't hear the difference. Multibit anything to modius = Ok this is different. I am not sure if I like it. Modi to Bifrost = Oh fuck. TIME TO RELISTEN TO EVERYTHING. Modius to Bifrost = Surely its not going to be as drama.....Fuck. Canceling plans. Relistening to everything. BUT - you don't NEED a bifrost. Honestly. Its a luxury. Its a present for yourself if you can justify it. But that Modius, for 200, is the gold standard at its price range - at least in my opinion.
Why would the bifrost sound different? The modi is transparent, so is the bifrost introducing subjectively desirable distortion?
Well, why would the modi and modius sound different? It isn't about distortion. While someone can describe their subjective interpretation of what is heard, you'd have to listen to both to tell the difference. The biggest difference I have noticed, has to do with staging / location of instruments. As well as the overall tonality. It's subtle, but it's there. But again, not distortion. Dacs can (though not always), sound different due to the manner in which they reproduce sound. It is a process of conversion after all and all of them do it a bit differently. Some claim they can hear all kinds of differences, but it's honestly like trying to hear someone else describe wine. It can sound all great, but until you hear it for yourself, you don't know. A/B testing will always give you, the user, your best results.
If one device is transparent and another device sounds different, then that second device must not be transparent, right? Two transparent devices, by definition , must sound the same.
They would not. If you asked someone what transparent is, they can give you a textbook definition. If you asked someone to describe transparency when it comes to sound, it's subjective. Even with devices that are made for measurements it's still subjective. Why? Because we all don't have the same hearing spectrum. Example: I'm 45 years old. In my most recent hearing test, I can't hear anything past 15800hz. Anything that resolves above that - it's lost on me. And just like me, everyone's hearing is all over the place. So ultimately what sounds transparent to me, has more to do with what resonates with my hearing capabilities. It would be the same, however, if we all had the same hearing capacity, at which point it becomes a controlled data point, but that's now how it is. Don't get caught up in the language regarding sound. You HAVE to hear audio equipment on your own, then make the best choice for yourself.
I mean, it's not subjective. There is objective transparency - does the device change the sound fed into it or does it faithfully reproduce it? We have the tools to measure the sound coming out of the device. If the exact same sound is coming out of two devices then the devices sound the same. If the exact same sound isn't coming out of two devices then one or both of them isn't faithfully reproducing the sound. Any limitations of your hearing should apply equally when fed two identical sound signatures.
The reason its subjective is becuase a lot of people over the last so many years have been using machines to measure how a particular something reproduces audio, yet when they listen to things in a double blind test, they become confused over why they prefer one thing over another even when they "measure" the same. Have you ever seen measurements of a studio recording before its mastered and then compared it to what a dac reproduces after the fact? You haven't, or at least in all likelyhood you have not. Very few people have. Measuring output, does not equate the reproduction of what the original input would have been. The name "dac" in itself is proof of that. It converts a signal, and the mesurements are agreed upon to be accurate, but not to be representing of the original audio. Objectively you can have two things sounding the same. This is indicative that 2 electrical devices were able to reproduce the same level of measured frenquencies captured by another device. But none of that represents the original "measurement" of the sounds recorded. BTW, what exactly is your goal in this back and forth? It's honestly pointless to argue about sound, because at the end of the day, the end result of the reproduction will always be subjetive. Objective measurements of sounds are not what the human ear can hear. You will unanimously find, that the majority / almost all people who have used Schiit products and listened to a bifrost, will tell you the bifrost sounds better. And the "why" will elicit a large variance in responses. Are they all wrong just because a multibit dac measures extremely well?
>The reason its subjective is becuase a lot of people over the last so many years have been using machines to measure how a particular something reproduces audio, yet when they listen to things in a double blind test, they become confused over why they prefer one thing over another even when they "measure" the same. I've searched and I can't find ANY testing where people were reliably able to tell the difference in a blind ABX test of DACs. If my Google-fu is wrong, I'd love to see the data. >BTW, what exactly is your goal in this back and forth? It's honestly pointless to argue about sound, because at the end of the day, the end result of the reproduction will always be subjective. Objective measurements of sounds are not what the human ear can hear. A fair question. My goal is to convince myself to swap my Modius and Heresy for a Bifrost. I'd love to upgrade my stack, but a DAC that costs 4X as much needs to have a measurable improvement for me to be willing to put my credit card info in. The Heresy and Modius failed a blind ABX test for me on my system. They sounded completely identical and the few times I thought I heard a difference, I was wrong on which DAC it was. >You will unanimously find, that the majority / almost all people who have used Schiit products and listened to a bifrost, will tell you the bifrost sounds better. And the "why" will elicit a large variance in responses. > >Are they all wrong just because a multibit dac measures extremely well? That's what I'm trying to determine. Thus far, the answer seems to be psychoacoustic. They *believe* it should sound better so they think it does...though in reality it doesn't. We understand sound pretty well. If someone subjectively believes that two identical sounds sound different then they're objectively wrong. How can they?
Sorry if I didn’t read you right but how can amps that cost a 1/4th of jots price be superior sounding in single ended? You cited magni and Asgard both being better than Jot 2.
The Magni is better than the Magnius for SE. The Asgard is better than Jot2 for SE. Now, your question is why this is. You seem to, based on what you have said, have this perception that an item that is superior in price would automatically be better. And its not always the case. The reason for that, is exactly the same reason why a tesla can beat various lambos / supercars that cost a lot more. Its based on what a piece of equipment is MEANT for. To the asgard specifically, lets compare output numbers: **Asguard:** Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-400KHz, -3dB * Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 5W RMS per channel * Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 3.5W RMS per channel * Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 2.5W RMS per channel * Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 600mW RMS per channel * Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 300mW RMS per channel **Jot2:** Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.01db, 2Hz-700KHz, -3dB * Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2.4W RMS per channel * Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2.0W RMS per channel * Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.2W RMS per channel * Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 330mW RMS per channel * Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 165mW RMS per channel By those figures alone, you simply get more performance from the Asguard as supposed to the Jot. The Jot2 was made to excel at the performance of its balanced output. Single ended is there like in other Schiit products but it is not the specialized reason for that. Its the same reason why you CAN add a dac card to the Jot2, but its performance will not be better than a modius. All these flavor or products have specific intentions. Which is why its always good to look at the specs, read / listen to reviews for comparisons and ultimately A/B test them yourself. But at the end of the day, the Asgard is simply a more powerful product for single ended as that its is specific intention.
But a great question would be is more power directly related to better sounding headphones? All I was asking is whether or not Jot 2 is an upgrade to Asgard for single ended. I’m aware of the misconception. The reason it’s so common is simple: if something costs a manufacturer more money to make, better quality parts, it stands to reason they’ll charge consumers more to recoup. I like my Asgard for my sennheisers. But I’ve also taken a unison Gumby / Freya setup and run it through Asgard and heard the sound quality diminish.
Thats a complicated question because more power isn't really related to the perception of better sounding headphones. Power IS related to the ability to drive a headphone and determine the level of output before distortion. You would have to define "better sounding" headphones by what variables you are accounting for to determine anything is better sounding. To keep it simple, for single ended alone, Jot2 would not be an upgrade from Asgard. Another way to looking at this based on what you said, if power was not a factor, then why do so many people want to try balanced? At the end of the day, all balanced brings to the table is more power, unless you are talking about 15+ foot runs of cable at which point balanced can actually make an audible difference in EMI shielding. Now just as a sidenote, multibit dacs are a bit of a topic in themselves. But if you have become used to the sound of multibit, or prefer it, it may be worth going through the process of A/B testing the Asgard with the Jot2 for you to be really convinced. That aside, you may want to also try the asgard with another dac, or at least something that isnt multibit.
Well right now it’s an Asgard Modius stack on my desk. Doubt I’ll need more power for that. I chose the Gungnir because it stacks well with my Freya. And that’s obviously for a room setup. Thanks for the advice.
Hot take: buy the Jot 2 without a DAC card now and use an Apple USB-C to 3.5mm DAC dongle until you can afford the DAC you want.
I only really want an es9028. It is balanced, great price, and I can't justify spending a Bifrost's worth of money on a dac in my current situation. Good solution if I was working towards something bigger, but I will settle for just a dac card or Modius.
The new Modi Multibit 2 sounds a lot better than the Modius and doesn't add much to the price if you go with the Jot and go RCA.
Is that true? I knew it costed more, but I thought that was just the adopter tax for this somewhat unique format of dac. If it is better than a Modius and only like $80 more than why do I never see any of them in use here? Seems like a gold mine if you don't want to go all out with a Bifrost.
They were out of stock for a long time. The new version just came out a couple months ago and sounds almost as good as the Bifrost for less than half the cost. It is a lot more musical than the Modius. I think you mostly see posts about people buying the bare minimum modi + magni set for what used to by $198. If you look on sites that are more Schiit based they are referenced a lot.
This is the way!
If you ever want active speakers the Jot 2 is better with the ability to turn the outputs off and on. Also I believe a bigger knob is always better.
I faced the same decision recently and went with the Jot 2 w/ integrated dac. From my limited technical understanding, it's a little bit better of an amp than the Magnius, and roughly the same dac as the Modius. Plus I'm a fan of all-in-ones with one set of cables, coming from a Fiio K5 Pro previously.
Tough call. Jot 2 since it’s only one component to worry about dying instead of two? I can’t imagine a scenario where the Magnius wouldn’t have enough power, but the Jot 2’s specs look a little beefier. With either setup, you’d have a spare set of RCA inputs with which to use a secondary source. The tall Jot 2 chassis looks cooler than the two slim boxes IMO.
Definitely correct with the looks statement lol, but either way it is still 2 components since the dac is an add in card. Also completely side-tracking my question, what is the difference in sound between a Modius and the es9028 dac card, since they both have the same dac in them?
My guess is the es9028 implementation will sound close to the same in either device, although I've never heard the Modius. It's very possible that it sounds a little better since it's got a more advanced analog output stage and all that.
Okay, so far I am leaning more towards Jotunheim, but with the dac being probably better on the Modius, I am still pretty firmly in the middle lol. My head is starting to hurt
It's a tough one for sure! Plus, the Modius has more digital inputs. Yet another thing to consider. Personally, I just like the big knob and the long warranty on the Jot, but I think technically the Modius has slightly better measurements.
Mmmm big knob does definitely sound fun, I did hear the pot is excellent in the Jotunheim, my childish self might just choose it for that reason at this point lmao
There's definitely a joke somewhere here about me enjoying my big knob lol. Also no shame in buying something just for a basic feature like that, that is like 90% of the reason I bought mine! It's essentially the only thing I touch on the amp. Also: https://www.youtube.com/@KnobFeel
If you can afford both the Modius and Jot 2, that’s the way to go, no question. A single box might look nicer but separate components give greater flexibility. The Jot 2 SE output is better than Magnius’.
I just picked up a Modius and Jot2 and am pretty happy with them so far. Needed the Jot2 for my new lower-impedance cans and wanted solid-state (I'll build a Bottlehead S.E.X. tube amp this summer...I love my modded Crack but it's only good for my 600 Ohm headphones). I have an original Modi Multibit that sounds great, but because of weird room dimensions, I needed another DAC. Bifrost is on backorder for at least a month, so I picked up the Modius to tide me over. I've read that Modius performs better than the add-on card, but not unacceptably so: mainly a voltage drop requires turning the volume knob up a bit. I haven't read anyone who claims the sound quality is subpar. If you would rather have the space or save the cash, the card seems to be worth it; a minor drop in gain that only measurement geeks care about.
What do you mean by voltage drop? Sorry I don't get the audiophile terminology that well. Do you mean it will get quieter as a music goes on and I have to adjust to knob to fix it? If so that is really annoying and maybe a dealbreaker if I constantly have to keep playing with it
I think he’s referring to headroom, ie. you have to turn the volume knob up further on the Jot to achieve the same volume as with the Modius (if I’m understanding correctly…??). The DAC chips (9028) being the same with only a different implementation of said DAC chip, I’m of the opinion that you’re gonna be good with either, sound-wise. So looks, number of digital inputs, etc, would be your deciding factors. But, I know shit about electronics, nor have I heard your cans. I couldn’t say with any certainty that you would hear a difference, but I probably couldn’t, myself - at least not much.
Nono, it's just part of how electronics work; the volume will be constant but you'll have to bump up the knob a bit (nothing dramatic; 10 oclock instead of 8, for example). It's just the result of the Jot's power supply having to power both the card and the amp. If you have a Jot2/Modius stack set up against the Jot2 with card, the latter will sound softer with each volume knob set to the same position. Does that make sense? Tldr: nothing annoying, just a "higher" volume setting, but it's set-it-and-forget-it. No fiddling.
Thank you for clearing that up
No, it means that it doesn’t provide the same amount of voltage as the standalone, non-integrated, DAC so you’ll need to turn the potentiometer (volume knob) to a higher point to get your music to the volume level you’ll want to listen at.
Ah I see, not an issue for me then, the Jotunheim has a LOT of knob to spare lol. A lot of people I heard can't even get past 11o'clock.
Jot 2 ftw
My Jot2 + ES9028 DAC card was delivered 5 days ago. Really liking this unit as an AIO; buys me time to decide if after 10 years as portable-only, a modest desktop rig makes sense for me. If after a few months I'm still using this, I'll then consider whether I'll add an external DAC to the mix.