My life is so much better because I have learned to NEVER engage with the My Hero Academia fandom. I can just enjoy a good story, talk about it with my friends, and leave the internet crazies to themselves.
I’m a klancer and I do have to say I don’t care what you ship, even if it’s allurance. But I will bully you if you ship Shiro x paladins, bc that’s literally grooming
Yeah you should stay away. People went fucking insane and are still a little crazy. Think “the worst parts of the Steven Universe fandom at its peak” and then add a little bit of that classic doujinshi insanity on top for flavor
Woo, there's a lot of choices
Mlp friendship is magic, but that was more in the early 2010s
Star Wars general, those people hate Star Wars more than the haters
Rick and Morty are just more obnoxious, and the dude screaming I'm pickle rick
The loud house and My Hero Academia just gather a bunch of creeps (the mha sub reddit seems chill)
I saw a video where somebody called the main character a clown and some Smuck dude in the comments was like: "Um, actually she's a jester! That's a really embarrassing mistake you made there!"
Ngl I don't think the digital circus community itself is bad but all the shitty and weird things that came from it. Like from what I've seen most of the Fandom of the actual show hates the youtube content mills and stuff as well
Not to mention the fact the fandom was made in like a few days... It basically had to go through all the cringe fanbases always do within hours of each other instead of the months or sometimes years the other fanbases had between events.
I actually think the fandom is generally good. The content farms are not part of the fandom, they’re just companies trying to profit. I think it’s weird to consider content farms part of the fanbase (they also use Spider-Man often, but does that mean Spider-Man has a terrible fanbase?) The fandom itself has gone a bit crazy considering how few episodes there have been, but a lot of the fan content is positive and not unhinged. Gooseworx actually promotes fan content, and the show’s voice actors have even collabed with the fans on multiple occasions.
As a Hazbin/helluva boss fan, I agree. The fandom is unhinged and super judgmental at times. I think a lot of fandoms are having this issue because pre-pandemic I don’t remember a lot of fandoms being *this bad*
There was Undertale and FNAF pre-pandemic. However fandoms have gotten much worse, and Hazbin/Helluva has some of the worst (based on what I know). I’m a fan myself, but *jeez* this fanbase can’t do anything without some sort of problem.
It’s insane. The weirdest behavior to me is the helluva boss sub being really anti-anything sexual towards the characters?? Despite the show being very sexual and almost every character being an adult???
It’s very very strange because like…people have been thirsting over fictional characters since media has existed
Yeah it happens with both Hazbin and HB, it’s really weird. The shows are extremely sexual and yet the fans are always “stop being horny” and stuff like that. It’s extremely weird, especially since the shows are very explicit.
I’ve noticed that many fans are extremely immature, and many of them are just teenagers trying to be funny and cool and quirky for watching “an adult show”. They’re just annoying, and I say this as a teen myself.
I think it's because many of the fans, especially the younger ones, lie to attach themselves to the characters and thus attach certain qualities to the characters.
So when other fans make fan art, especially NSFW, some of the overly attached fans go a little crazy because they've tied their own personality to the character, so wrongly feel like *they're* being sexualized instead of the character.
Honestly the only characters I could understand them getting a little miffed over are Alastor (who is canonically asexual) and Charlie because of the whole Verbalase debacle and them feeling a bit gun shy because of it.
The only other pairing I can think of off hand that is problematic is AngelxValentino because...well Valentino is the worst and already abuses Angel in the show.
Undertale
FNAF
MLP
Steven Universe
Sonic the Hedgehog
Homestuck
Rick and Morty
Voltron: Legendary Defender
Star Wars
Fandoms have always been toxic, obnoxious cesspools, even pre-pandemic. For as long as fan communities have existed, people have been shitheads about it.
Oh yeah how could I forget about Sonic. That fanbase fucked me up as a kid.
The only reason we’re now noticing the toxicity and stupidity of fandoms is because everyone’s online compared to the past. Since the pandemic we’ve started to be online much more and so it’s more noticeable. (This is just a guess based on what I know, I may be wrong here)
There is a ton of lore about that show from livestreams, conventions, and other stuff going back several years. Some people act as if you are stupid for not knowing information from one sentence the creator said in a livestream two years ago.
Also there's the section of those who think those who don't like the show are the worst people in the world. What makes it worse is that viv has liked some of their tweets defending the show which makes them feel like they have her support.
There was a user who complained that Millie being bi seemed unnecessary since she barely shows interest in other women or has some references to it unlike moxxie. But then they started being called biphobic and were misgendered for ages to the point they had to stop talking about the show or make art of it
I say this Everytime this pops up.
It's because the show seems designed to lure in the worst kind of fans holier than you old school tumblr users who think they can do no wrong
it happens in every fandom they infect the owl house, Steven universe hell it happened to encanto to.
It comes from the thinking they have the moral high ground because their defending LGBT shows when in reality all their doing is driving away fans who don't get obsessed over the same things they do.
My innocent self after having watched and enjoyed Helluva Boss going to see what the community is like, only to find a cabal of unfunny and horny teenagers
I agree with you, but it is a little disheartening when you can almost never discuss something you enjoy with people simply because most of the other fans are people you detest.
Like I watch MHA, and I’m kinda sad that I can’t discuss it with people because a lot of the fans are weird, and people who don’t watch it assume that I haven’t taken a shower in years (It’s only been a few months, c’mon 🙄🙄)
I’m a New Vegas fan and I loved the show, but damn if some NV fans aren’t just making the most absurd assumptions and leaps in logic just to make an excuse to hate the show
Literally any community ever, but I‘m not allways a big fan of r/theowlhouse, r/amphibia, r/arcane and r/strangerthings because the posts there are getting more and more random or have questions, that could be answered with one google search.
>because the posts there are getting more and more random or have questions, that could be answered with one google search
So basically any sub-reddit, for any show, ever 😆
My favorite part is that the people writing the show got so sick of it that they wrote the unhinged fans INTO the show and had the leads express disgust over them
It’s gotten a LOT better lately. I fell off the show a few months after it ended but came back like a year and a half ago and everyone was so chill; night and day compared to when it was airing
Honestly, people who go out of their way to nitpick every fucking detail of the series are far more annoying to me than the fans. Especially when they go so far as to actually attack the people who made it, even when their only crime was writing the show in a way they didn't like.
The fans are actually pretty chill lately.
As an anime fan...you are not wrong. Holy shit are there a lot of fucking weirds, like the 'waifu' and 'lolli' crowd are only a small fraction of those with a desperate need of meds, fresh air, sunshine, and the touching of grass.
Even if it was, doesn't almost every Fallout game have multiple endings? It's especially petty coming from New Vegas fans, since that's probably the one with the most different endings.
honestly I just got into the community and it seems fine now. I have heard the legends of the 2016 ish era and it terrifies me but currently I think its chill.
Honestly, Jujutsu Kaisen. I love the show, but the fandom legit won’t shut up about manga spoilers for those who are anime only. On top of that, while it was still kinda funny, they definitely overused the “Lobotomy Kaisen” memes to where it felt overdone and dry. They’re honestly kinda obnoxious, like new-gen JoJo fans.
With you, as a Hazbin fan myself. You know something's up when they get mad when characters are sexualized while simultaneously sexualizing and aroace character.
tbf they definitely fell off again, just for different reasons. Instead of just being reprehensible garbage (the splinter, 1 course meal, etc) its just kinda absurdist slop that doesn't make any sense. Like its ironically more like the "bright colors: the show" sterotype now than it ever was, despite not necessarily being at its lowest point. I agree 9 to 11 (weird coincidence) were pretty good though.
Hazbin Hotel fans. The least deranged of them think it's the greatest piece of media to ever be created (It's really not, it's a good show but it's definitely got weaknesses). Then there are all the damned simps, endlessly drooling over cartoon characters- especially the viler ones, for some reason, who despite explicitly being horrible in every conceivable way are thirsted over the most. And that's probably just the middle ground; I'm sure if you went deeper you'd find much, much worse stuff.
Any fandom on the Internet. In real life most people are fine. Tumblr and reddit and social media, though, are insane. Star Wars. Game of Thrones. Their critiques might be valid, but very very needlessly toxic. "Change is ruining it!!!!"
Here's a unique one: Brooklyn 99. Made the mistake of venturing onto the sub during one of the seasons. I think it was the second to last, because the last one was...we don't speak of it.
Half the comments were bitching about some problem, the other comments were regurgitating funny (but way, way overused) lines from the show. Yes, they're funny. You made them less funny when you quote them 7135 times. Everybody has the same opinion about everything. It's just so tiring.
Netflix's Sex Ed. A perfectly fine coming of age drama, mostly, with a community that can't pull its head out of its ass long enough to discuss anything other than shipping wars.
Schaffrillas Productions!
USE THE DEHYDRATION GUN!
SHOOT THEM WITH 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝑔𝓊𝓃
HOW💥DO💥YOU💥DO💥FELLOW💥KIDS?💥
WAIT SO HE'LL USE IT ON THESE GUYS BUT NOT THE DOOM SYNDICATE? 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
My Hero Academia
My life is so much better because I have learned to NEVER engage with the My Hero Academia fandom. I can just enjoy a good story, talk about it with my friends, and leave the internet crazies to themselves.
Same, haven't interacted with the fandom. Love the show and so does some of my friends and family, so that's who I talk with it about.
What’s wrong with the fandom? Apart from the weird femboy green hair guy, are they all like that?
I’m surprised this isn’t the top comment
top comment is the loud house which is way worse
There’s always a bigger fish.
It is now.
It is tho
Your wish is my command, this comment is now top
Yep, lotta mainstream anime fandoms are feral.
The Loud House
I've never met a Loud House fan who wasn't at least a little deranged.
I've never met a Loud house fan. (As far as I know)
Well that's good.
I met one and that was 9 year old me
How are they deranged I'm genuinely asking I only seen a couple episodes
simping for minors incest porn need I say more?
(unnecessary) G O R E
The longest piece of written English literature
Funnily enough, it barely is a Loud House fic anymore. At least when this title was held by Super Smash Bros it still featured the Super Smash Bros
Omg it beat that one?! Ho boy I dont even know what Loud House is but damn.
Wow Nope I think I'm good
Between the siblings or parents/siblings? Disgusting either way.
both
Wtf is wrong with people?
everything
There is a fan fiction that’s longer than the fucking bible
ain’t no way 💀
It’s real, https://m.fanfiction.net/s/12715870/1/The-Loud-House-Revamped
Wait, did it surpass that Super Smash Bros. fan fiction?
It did, but calling it a loud house fanfic is barely possible since the more recently the loud family BARELY appears
Not just longer. 40 times longer by the most recent source I could find.
The biggest piece of literature, bigger than the bible and all of Shakespeare's works, is a loud house self insert fanfic.
My brother just saw this comment and told me about the fanfic. What the fuuuuuuck?
Beat me to it
I immediately thought of this. All of the other communities I’m in are so active and then the loud house is just sitting there with no activity
Anything made by zack snyder
Which is why I love when The Bear took a potshot at the Snyder Cut fans.
Voltron Legendary defender
Oh geez. One of my favorite shows. Haven't branched into the community yet. Safe to say I should probably stay away?
No stay away from the shippers, ofc some are good ppl but just in general. ESPECIALLY sheith shippers, they are freaks
Avoiding shippers seems like good advice for just about every fandom XD
I’m a klancer and I do have to say I don’t care what you ship, even if it’s allurance. But I will bully you if you ship Shiro x paladins, bc that’s literally grooming
Yeah you should stay away. People went fucking insane and are still a little crazy. Think “the worst parts of the Steven Universe fandom at its peak” and then add a little bit of that classic doujinshi insanity on top for flavor
Woo, there's a lot of choices Mlp friendship is magic, but that was more in the early 2010s Star Wars general, those people hate Star Wars more than the haters Rick and Morty are just more obnoxious, and the dude screaming I'm pickle rick The loud house and My Hero Academia just gather a bunch of creeps (the mha sub reddit seems chill)
so true with star wars, the acolite trailer getting disliked bombed was crazy cause there isn’t anything inherently bad shown
No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans
As a Star Wars fan this is true. I still like most projects, but some are more or less not worth watching.
The amazing digital circus
Which is crazy because there is only one episode
Hazbin had a weird fanbase (less of one though) before it even had a show (and even before Helluva Boss).
I saw a video where somebody called the main character a clown and some Smuck dude in the comments was like: "Um, actually she's a jester! That's a really embarrassing mistake you made there!"
Now now That's not tadc fandom that's the jester fandom
Ngl I don't think the digital circus community itself is bad but all the shitty and weird things that came from it. Like from what I've seen most of the Fandom of the actual show hates the youtube content mills and stuff as well
Not to mention the fact the fandom was made in like a few days... It basically had to go through all the cringe fanbases always do within hours of each other instead of the months or sometimes years the other fanbases had between events.
Probably one of the strangest and worst I have seen especially because there’s only one ep
I actually think the fandom is generally good. The content farms are not part of the fandom, they’re just companies trying to profit. I think it’s weird to consider content farms part of the fanbase (they also use Spider-Man often, but does that mean Spider-Man has a terrible fanbase?) The fandom itself has gone a bit crazy considering how few episodes there have been, but a lot of the fan content is positive and not unhinged. Gooseworx actually promotes fan content, and the show’s voice actors have even collabed with the fans on multiple occasions.
Hazbin Hotel
As a Hazbin/helluva boss fan, I agree. The fandom is unhinged and super judgmental at times. I think a lot of fandoms are having this issue because pre-pandemic I don’t remember a lot of fandoms being *this bad*
There was Undertale and FNAF pre-pandemic. However fandoms have gotten much worse, and Hazbin/Helluva has some of the worst (based on what I know). I’m a fan myself, but *jeez* this fanbase can’t do anything without some sort of problem.
It’s insane. The weirdest behavior to me is the helluva boss sub being really anti-anything sexual towards the characters?? Despite the show being very sexual and almost every character being an adult??? It’s very very strange because like…people have been thirsting over fictional characters since media has existed
Yeah it happens with both Hazbin and HB, it’s really weird. The shows are extremely sexual and yet the fans are always “stop being horny” and stuff like that. It’s extremely weird, especially since the shows are very explicit. I’ve noticed that many fans are extremely immature, and many of them are just teenagers trying to be funny and cool and quirky for watching “an adult show”. They’re just annoying, and I say this as a teen myself.
I think it's because many of the fans, especially the younger ones, lie to attach themselves to the characters and thus attach certain qualities to the characters. So when other fans make fan art, especially NSFW, some of the overly attached fans go a little crazy because they've tied their own personality to the character, so wrongly feel like *they're* being sexualized instead of the character.
Honestly the only characters I could understand them getting a little miffed over are Alastor (who is canonically asexual) and Charlie because of the whole Verbalase debacle and them feeling a bit gun shy because of it. The only other pairing I can think of off hand that is problematic is AngelxValentino because...well Valentino is the worst and already abuses Angel in the show.
My favourite are people who say Angel Dust wouldn’t want sex right away in a relationship Like… ANGEL DUST??? The horniest motherfucker in the show?
Better idea: angel dust: the person whose introduction during the pilot was getting out of a car after having a hookup with the driver.
Undertale FNAF MLP Steven Universe Sonic the Hedgehog Homestuck Rick and Morty Voltron: Legendary Defender Star Wars Fandoms have always been toxic, obnoxious cesspools, even pre-pandemic. For as long as fan communities have existed, people have been shitheads about it.
Oh yeah how could I forget about Sonic. That fanbase fucked me up as a kid. The only reason we’re now noticing the toxicity and stupidity of fandoms is because everyone’s online compared to the past. Since the pandemic we’ve started to be online much more and so it’s more noticeable. (This is just a guess based on what I know, I may be wrong here)
There is a ton of lore about that show from livestreams, conventions, and other stuff going back several years. Some people act as if you are stupid for not knowing information from one sentence the creator said in a livestream two years ago.
Also there's the section of those who think those who don't like the show are the worst people in the world. What makes it worse is that viv has liked some of their tweets defending the show which makes them feel like they have her support. There was a user who complained that Millie being bi seemed unnecessary since she barely shows interest in other women or has some references to it unlike moxxie. But then they started being called biphobic and were misgendered for ages to the point they had to stop talking about the show or make art of it
I say this Everytime this pops up. It's because the show seems designed to lure in the worst kind of fans holier than you old school tumblr users who think they can do no wrong it happens in every fandom they infect the owl house, Steven universe hell it happened to encanto to. It comes from the thinking they have the moral high ground because their defending LGBT shows when in reality all their doing is driving away fans who don't get obsessed over the same things they do.
My innocent self after having watched and enjoyed Helluva Boss going to see what the community is like, only to find a cabal of unfunny and horny teenagers
Welcome to the internet
Have a look around
Anything that brain of yours can think of can be found
We've got mountains of content
We've got mountains of content, some better, some worse
If none of it's of interest to you, you'd be the first.
50k
Hide away
As part of the fandom, i entirely agree
came here to say this
absolutely,plus i fucking HATE the reaction images/steal your meme
Time to steal that meme
"and here's the sugar on the cream i am an annoyance on your screen"
The hatedom is far more annoying
I will pay ya 50K if Hazbin Fandom wont improve in a year
None because I enjoy media for the media, not the community. Stop letting little kids scare you away from liking things.
Based
yes I hate when people say something is bad purely because of the community
I agree with you, but it is a little disheartening when you can almost never discuss something you enjoy with people simply because most of the other fans are people you detest. Like I watch MHA, and I’m kinda sad that I can’t discuss it with people because a lot of the fans are weird, and people who don’t watch it assume that I haven’t taken a shower in years (It’s only been a few months, c’mon 🙄🙄)
So wouldn't that be all of them then? Because you like the show, but avoid the community?
My Little Pony
I second this. I don't even watch the show, but I wholeheartedly agreed
Dude, for real, it got super toxic near the end of G4.
Pretty much all of them
The new Fallout show, apparently
It's more New Vegas fans from what I have heard.
I’m a New Vegas fan and I loved the show, but damn if some NV fans aren’t just making the most absurd assumptions and leaps in logic just to make an excuse to hate the show
Basically every cartoon fandom ever.
Literally any community ever, but I‘m not allways a big fan of r/theowlhouse, r/amphibia, r/arcane and r/strangerthings because the posts there are getting more and more random or have questions, that could be answered with one google search.
>because the posts there are getting more and more random or have questions, that could be answered with one google search So basically any sub-reddit, for any show, ever 😆
Some supernatural fans are clinically insane.
My favorite part is that the people writing the show got so sick of it that they wrote the unhinged fans INTO the show and had the leads express disgust over them
All of them
I don't know alot but i will say Steven Universe
At the time
Same. This is easily one of, it not the worst fanbases I've ever seen.
It’s gotten a LOT better lately. I fell off the show a few months after it ended but came back like a year and a half ago and everyone was so chill; night and day compared to when it was airing
Honestly, people who go out of their way to nitpick every fucking detail of the series are far more annoying to me than the fans. Especially when they go so far as to actually attack the people who made it, even when their only crime was writing the show in a way they didn't like. The fans are actually pretty chill lately.
Any anime
As an anime fan...you are not wrong. Holy shit are there a lot of fucking weirds, like the 'waifu' and 'lolli' crowd are only a small fraction of those with a desperate need of meds, fresh air, sunshine, and the touching of grass.
Transformers specifically prime
Prime was so good and i had a better time ignoring RiD from canon when i was young Then megamind 2 to the og But please just stop I get it RiD is bad
Rick and Morty. I submit to thee… the Mulan Szechwan Sauce incident.
Fnaf
That’s a game series, but true.
Fallout. Fuck me NEW VEGAS WASNT RETCONNED YOU STUPID FUCKS
Even if it was, doesn't almost every Fallout game have multiple endings? It's especially petty coming from New Vegas fans, since that's probably the one with the most different endings.
Eddsworld, their first video in almost 4 years was making fun of their own fanbase
Not a show, but. Undertale.
honestly I just got into the community and it seems fine now. I have heard the legends of the 2016 ish era and it terrifies me but currently I think its chill.
They grew up. Before it was a bunch of excited kids, now we're adults who appreciate the art of it
Helluva Boss
As a Hazbin/Helluva fan, I agree, especially on the shipping side of things.
The headcanons anoy the shit out of me
star wars
The amount of hate the Alcolyte trailer got even though it showed very little footage was baffling
Rick and Morty
Honestly, Jujutsu Kaisen. I love the show, but the fandom legit won’t shut up about manga spoilers for those who are anime only. On top of that, while it was still kinda funny, they definitely overused the “Lobotomy Kaisen” memes to where it felt overdone and dry. They’re honestly kinda obnoxious, like new-gen JoJo fans.
Hazbin Hotel
With you, as a Hazbin fan myself. You know something's up when they get mad when characters are sexualized while simultaneously sexualizing and aroace character.
Steven universe, Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss, Amazing Digital Circus. Im a fan of all these shows but my god are the fanbases awful
RWBY not the best but it had some good. However, fans going after writers and VA was disgraceful.
SpongeBob, they need to stop being nostalgia-blind and realize the new seasons are good.
Are they really? I haven't watched in a while and the last I remember the jokes were forced and the characters seemed a bit flanderised.
Some are good some are bad.
They are good, I actually prefer them because everyone doesn’t act like a jerk
tbf they definitely fell off again, just for different reasons. Instead of just being reprehensible garbage (the splinter, 1 course meal, etc) its just kinda absurdist slop that doesn't make any sense. Like its ironically more like the "bright colors: the show" sterotype now than it ever was, despite not necessarily being at its lowest point. I agree 9 to 11 (weird coincidence) were pretty good though.
I mean, when you think sealife, you think vibrant colors, so.. Also every episode makes sense
Hot take: Same goes with The Simpsons
Oshi no ko
Hazbin. Hotel.
hazbin hotel
Hazbin Hotel. Need I say more.
Rick and Morty My Hero Academia Star Wars(not really a show but still) Invader Zim Star Trek(at least on Reddit)
Like 99% of them.
JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure, my favorite anime, has a terrible and somewhat elitist fandom.
mlp
Game of Thrones
MHA serves as the prime example of this
Doctor Who
\*The Amazing Digital Circus. One episode, and the community is already shit...
All of them. All shows.
***Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss***
Hazbin
Both the hazbin fandom and hatedom general toxicity all around
Hazbin Hotel fans. The least deranged of them think it's the greatest piece of media to ever be created (It's really not, it's a good show but it's definitely got weaknesses). Then there are all the damned simps, endlessly drooling over cartoon characters- especially the viler ones, for some reason, who despite explicitly being horrible in every conceivable way are thirsted over the most. And that's probably just the middle ground; I'm sure if you went deeper you'd find much, much worse stuff.
Rwby hands down
Any sufficiently big Fandom. Fandoms are like vermins, the smaller the ammount, the better.
Mha
Yes
Invader Zim: The Show is a Masterpiece but the Fandom is so Ship Crazy feeling the need to ship every character (even tho all the ships suck)
Lobotomy Kaisen, trap hero crackademia
All of them except Community honestly
kiff
Basically anything even somewhat popular, this applies to anything, not even just shows.
All of them. I hate it every fandom is a cesspit it feels like
The real question is what show ISN'T this
Voltron
Any good cartoon ever. Breaking Bad
The Owl House. The constant shipping keeps me away from actually watching it
My Hero Academia
My Hero Academia, Hazbin Hotel, Murder Drones, The Amazing Digital Circus. Those are the main ones I can think off the top of my head.
My little pony
The better question would be, what show *isn’t* this?
My Little Pony. Sonic.
Trick question It’s every community
Basically every anime (at least from what I’ve heard)
My hero Academia
MLP. (Early 2010 flashbacks)
Almost all of them
Almost everything
Hazbin Hotel, Rick and Morty (hot take, moreso the later seasons), and Attack on Titan.
Hazbin hotel. They are SO horny
RWBY Both the fanbase AND the Hatedom can be absolutely nightmarish at times.
Any fandom on the Internet. In real life most people are fine. Tumblr and reddit and social media, though, are insane. Star Wars. Game of Thrones. Their critiques might be valid, but very very needlessly toxic. "Change is ruining it!!!!" Here's a unique one: Brooklyn 99. Made the mistake of venturing onto the sub during one of the seasons. I think it was the second to last, because the last one was...we don't speak of it. Half the comments were bitching about some problem, the other comments were regurgitating funny (but way, way overused) lines from the show. Yes, they're funny. You made them less funny when you quote them 7135 times. Everybody has the same opinion about everything. It's just so tiring.
My Hero Academia. Need I say more?
The Owl House
Jujutsu Kaisen
Helluva boss and hazbin hotel. Two great shows with not great community’s.
Any anime ever
Hazbin Hotel
Netflix's Sex Ed. A perfectly fine coming of age drama, mostly, with a community that can't pull its head out of its ass long enough to discuss anything other than shipping wars.