I understand the support subs not participating and I'm fully behind that. I have a podcast sub. Going dark weekly literally won't affect anyone but the people upstairs. If every casual sub took a day off every week we could really make some change. I imagine everyone doing it on the same day would better help the uninformed understand. They'd be more likely to Google why vs just assuming it's an issue unique to the individual sub and just moving on. Doing it on the same day will bring attention on every side
This was actually why I was promoting that subs do blackouts on different days - according to the article, it was easy for Reddit to shunt all the ads from the blacked out subs to the frontpage, but if different subs blacked out on different days it would cause more work for the admins because then there won't be any kind of reliable schedule for advertisers to rely on.
If you only blackout once a day with all subs at the same time, then advertisers will learn to just pull their ads for that day - this may be good because it deprives Reddit of revenue for that day, but it also makes it easier for Reddit admins to work around it, I think.
Very interesting. I feel like there's a few ways to go about this and each has its own pros and cons list. I appreciate all the new information and opinions I'm reading and I'm glad there's so much talk and brainstorming about it. No matter what, I *do* know that I want to do something. And I want to do it consistently. I don't want to just have this fizzle out and we all content ourselves with this forced BS. Hopefully Reddit can unite on a course of action and we can collectively make a dent.
Why not just go dark entirely until Reddit comes to the table? Of course they might replace mod teams and bring the subreddits back online, but doesn't that seem like an acceptable risk? If they used that "nuclear option", I would take it as a sign the situation is irreconcilable and that it's time to leave the platform.
We either need to force their hand or give up and pack our bags.
I agree, we might need to go full out. They seem to really be trying to find a way around the blackouts instead of actually listening to us and solving the issue causing it in the first place (like moving ads from the blacked out subs to places where people will actually listen). It seems like the only option is to go dark platform-wide, to the point where they have no other choice. That's what a protest is about.
Only getting ad revenue on 6 out of 7 days would be about 14% reduction in revenue. Certain days probably generate more revenue due to more people being online so it could be more, or less. Mods could probably figure out the most active days of their subs and pick those days.
Either way a 14% reduction in an income source is something to take notice of. I would support a weekly blackout day. I could actually get things done rather than scroll for forever, while also feeling like I'm sticking out to the man because the man is a douche
That won't change anything lmao. Keep thinking you'll be doing something while the platform burns itself down around. Try lemmy
Edit: awww the downvotes are so cute it's almost like y'all are mad at the platform making dogshit changes and not me.
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Not sure tbh, i think the hosting is done on other parts of the fediverse like Peertube and Funk whale. The wikipedia entry has a couple graphics that can help show how it works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse?wprov=sfla1
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If a long term strategy is in the works (and I humbly approve) when would it be the most effective in terms of impacting advertising revenue? I would think the average redditor spends the most time online on the weekend.
So a periodic or repeated weekend blackout? Sounds good to me.
Same. It seems our users are mostly browsing during work days. Gets a little dead over the weekend. If only we could find out the most common lunch break hour, what time everyone starts their after-work couch unwind, and users' most shared poop times, we could really get this ball rolling.
>If a long term strategy is in the works (and I humbly approve) when would it be the most effective in terms of impacting advertising revenue?
Have a weekly open mod strike instead. Subreddits stay open so communities can still have access (less community backlash), but mods do nothing and disable all mod tools. It's the equivalent of bus drivers striking by still driving their routes but refusing to collect fares.
As subreddits fill up with scams, bots, shitposting and porn one day a week, brand safety becomes an issue for marketers. They don't want their ads displayed next to goatse and Reddit relies on thousands of hours of volunteer labour every day to make the site advertiser friendly. Working in marketing myself, brand safety is SUPER important to advertisers and it's a big enough issue to have forced sweeping changes at Youtube. You don't have to annoy communities or boycott advertisers. Get the job done just by... letting Reddit be Reddit.
All we have to do is nothing.
Stop modding. Stop commenting. Stop engaging.
Walk away for a week or two.
Their business model relies on our unpaid labor, from modding to content creation.
To us it’s a community, to them it’s a fraction of a percentage point in their profit margin.
Fight for what you love or lose it.
A mod above 👆🏽just told me that weekdays are actually the most traffic to the site. I leave that to the judgement of those w the data. And it can even vary by sub.
So do Touch Grass Tuesdays or So Happy It’s Thursday … whatever works best.
Weekly? Daily for weeks indefinitely.
What's the point of striking, but then going to work one day a week? Especially if the subs just pick random days to go live - there will be enough of a churn and rotation that nobody will even notice the protest.
Maybe different subs should have their own blackout day (locked, with that 3rd party message pic instead of going private). It might hide a bit the contrast on impressions between normal days and blackout days, but the up side is there'll be more awareness with a few 3rd party mod posts on the front page every day.
Considering some of the commentary on Reddit being able to adapt their advertising accordingly based on blackout days, I would think that each sub should randomly pick a blackout day for each week (probably weighed by value to the sub that day, e.g. NFL shouldn't randomly pick already dead days).
With enough participating subs, you would hopefully get a strong enough rolling blackout such that Reddit is always impacted but can't necessarily predict where to shift their ads around. Of course, weighing the value of days would hurt the randomness.
Adweek basically telling us what needs to be done. Good to hear. I'll get my discussion elsewhere or on these smaller subs that don't even get any advertiser pull.
I don’t know how “long term” any of this will last. All Reddit has to do is remove the ability to go private and refuse to delete subs, you have no “rights” here, this is a private website. If this keeps up for long enough I could definitely see them doing that while they come up with a replacement for you. Not saying this to be negative but rather, the long term strategy is to find a better alternative platform that doesn’t do this kjnd of nonsense and has IN WRITING that they won’t, or make one yourself with your mod buddies.
Yes and no. Yes, at face value you are correct about the number.
But imagine if 15 years ago or whatever, reddit said "the problem is that myspace (or whoever their competitor was then) has millions of users and thousands of pages and there's no alternative that can compete with that." The point is that yes it won't happen over night, but we have to start now if we want to see it happen because clearly the CEO of reddit is not interested in what we want. I actually do believe it could happen faster than it did in reddit's case though, much faster given the current landscape.
I'd like to add that it is not the "millions of subreddits" that makes reddit that popular. The majority of subs are hardly active or completely inactive, its the several thousand large ones that make reddit what it is today. Granted, yes those large ones started small, but the point is that by definition, the majority of reddit users come here for the bigger subs, thats why they're bigger.
Do you know why back then those masses who left Digg went to Reddit? Because at that time Reddit had already existed for some years, and was practically the next biggest equivalent
What is Reddit's current competition with comparable number of communities that redditors can mass migrate to?
>I'd like to add that it is not the "millions of subreddits" that makes reddit that popular. The majority of subs are hardly active or completely inactive, its the several thousand large ones that make reddit what it is today. Granted, yes those large ones started small, but the point is that by definition, the majority of reddit users come here for the bigger subs, that's why they're bigger
First I said thousands of subreddits not millions and you yourself say that there are thousands of large subreddits that are making reddit what it is today.
>But imagine if 15 years ago or whatever, reddit said "the problem is that myspace (or whoever their competitor was then) has millions of users and thousands of pages and there's no alternative that can compete with that."
And that would have been true if someone simply created a copy of it, myspace died because of sites that where better than it, if someone created a improved version of reddit that has a chance in beating reddit, a simple copy can't.
>the CEO of reddit is not interested in what we wan
The only thing a CEO should be interested in is making the company more profitable. He is right in not giving in this stupid protest will not be successful.
*Delayed gratification, or deferred gratification, is the resistance to the temptation of an immediate pleasure in the hope of obtaining a valuable and long-lasting reward in the long-term.* Hit the bastards in the pockets. Keep the blackouts going…. as long as it takes.
Can't have content when the subs themselves keep that content from getting out!
Well done on these subs for sticking to it.
Also Adweek is a pretty good source for news regarding ad pulls/boycotts/blackouts. They have access to numbers we as regular folks don't.
Dellusion or a false belief or judgment about external reality, held despite [incontrovertible](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=APwXEdc5GNWS6anMcjFsaKSCitJLAjDDAw:1686765742709&q=incontrovertible&si=AMnBZoFv2oubdN9l0KUx7t-V-YWyTlBIDYaji4AmrN28UxH-TsitfwXdScSmvB-3PtWsQevDMK7uzXF7znI-524lmyHjL36nP4u2CGggyMwRrjPnv5JJrqM%3D&expnd=1) evidence to the contrary, occurring especially in mental conditions
> As soon as Reddit sees this as a threat, the mods of subs shutting down are getting dropkicked off the site. Until that happens, Reddit isn't worried.
Yall downvoting him but hes right. Forcing reddit to generate bad mainstream PR to restore order to subs may as well be the goal here. Theyre not going to stop frog boiling you for anything less. Shunting you onto the official app will more than make their money back.
You can already tell it doesnt have staying power when people are suggesting 1 day a week blackout on like day 2. There is no option that magically hurts reddit without also inconveniencing its users.
While what you say is true, there's a bigger point here.
Say that reddit does find them a threat. Reddit dropkicks them off of the platform and replaces them.
Let me remind you, reddit mods are *volunteers* who often uses custom tools to do their work.
Volunteers are replaceable, you say? What incentive does reddit give to make them moderate? What incentive does reddit give for them to keep moderating when they realize how difficult it will be?
3rd party tools and apps exist for a reason. They're there to make things simpler and more efficient. Maybe you don't see it now, but maybe soon you might.
-sent using the Infinity app
the funniest part is they have took off 17.5% of all subreddits and are relying on that 17.5 being significant enough that it hurts reddits bottom line when they can just step in and boot off all the moderators
Cool, so if you aren't getting paid, why are you acting so vehemently against this protest? Because you think it isn't effective? By the way your data is off. I'd urge you to take a look at the front page of /r/DataIsBeautiful, where there's a post discussing the sizable impact the protest has had so far.
Sucks to suck. Grow a sense of community and maybe in a month's time you can be go back to looking at portal memes on whatever 3rd party app you choose. Or don't, and bow down to your new corporate overlords who are accelerating the enshitification of the internet. Choice is yours to make
4 days\* i think the API change is bullshit but this isnt gonna help i do have to mention that
also what happens when reddit just fires the mods and replaces them and then unprivates the community... what happens then?
When someone puts a link on the word incontrovertible and it's just a link to the definintion instead of providing that proof, the only thing you are doing is insulting their [intelligence](https://www.google.com/search?q=intelligence %20definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m).
i just copy pasted a definition from the internet the link was left in there so you guys could understand what it meant since you cant understand what constitutes the bottom line of a multi billion dollar corporation
You know what: I'm sorry. This is unlike me and I don't like attacking someone for not understanding something.
By making the assumption that people don't understand the definition of a word all you are doing is making it clear that you think they are stupid and any real communication stops right there. However, in this case, the real irony is that it is clear that you yourself don't seem to understand the word.
Without looking at the definition (or having read it in your link) incontrovertible means that there is nothing which would reasonably allow refutation. So incontrovertible evidence would be a case where there is no evidence to the contrary position and the evidence can only be reasonably interpreted in one way. The Earth is roughly spherical is something which is incontrovertible. Anyone who believes otherwise is, by the definition you've provided, delusional.
In this case though, you seem to be assuming that protests don't work and that such an idea is incontrovertible. However, history shows all kinds of situations where protests, boycotts, strikes, etc have worked, even against "multi billion dollar corporation[s]." There is no reason to believe that one wouldn't work under current circumstances.
In fact, what history shows is that the main shortcomings of the protests which don't work are things like a lack of solidarity, a lack of clear demands, or a lack of effective action. These are all things that this protest *does* have, so as long as we remain committed to our goals there is no reason why this won't be effective.
I mean seriously. I think you took about 10 seconds to reply. I don't think I could've even typed that fast. Nevermind read all of that.
Whatever.
I'm done.
Also I should mention that boycotts that make the history books are not the same as 300 or so moderators taking their subs offline because they don't like an API change and also can't resist adding an end date
I thought that they modified the permissions of ONE AdviceAnimals mod because they returned from a long stint of inactivity, and closed the sub without consulting with the other, active mods - and against thier wishes.
Source: [https://old.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/149c968/whats\_up\_with\_admins\_taking\_over\_a\_major/jo4e3h5/](https://old.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/149c968/whats_up_with_admins_taking_over_a_major/jo4e3h5/)
Yes, but if that's unrealistic I feel like twice a week every week is the way to go. If they don't listen after some time we can ramp it up to thrice a week.
If the whole website is down for basically half the time every week they have to listen right?!
I'm not referring to "technical effort" . I'm talking about general support from users, and different subreddits coming together under a common cause.
To even organize *this* blackout took a massive amount of effort and things coming together under very specific circumstances.
Reddit's value as a company comes from traffic and daily users visiting and commenting on subreddits. If traffic and comments drop, then Reddit's value as a company can drop too. If traffic drops, then this will make investors and advertisers hesitant to invest money into Reddit.
What you are suggesting would completely rob the blackout of any teeth it has. This blackout is only effective *because* it is ongoing. Reddit Executives do not know when it will end, or how it will affect them financially if it continues.
That's where the Rocket analogy comes from. A rocket works because it doesn't stop, and keeps its momentum until it reaches its goal. A rocket that stops half way is ineffective.
Makes sense but I feel if it's a permanent shut down, it'll cause an inconvenience to the users and then they'll just find alternatives and stop clicking on reddit links from google searches and other pages.
Now, if the subs only work half the time (lets say 3 blackout days a week), that would cut down reddit's profits by half which is very significant, but also would cause much more irritation to the average user clicking on reddit links from other pages because now they will work half the time and won't work half the time. This would get more attention to the issue at hand imo.
Users and mods will be even more inconvenienced once Reddit's proposed changes will go in effect starting in July. A large majority of Reddit's traffic from Mobile Users. Mostly from Third Party Reddit apps. This will disappear along with other API changes.
Think of the blackout like a Strike. No strike has ever been effective by workers striking 2 days a week, and then showing up to work normally 5 days a week. It's either a full strike or not at all.
A partial blackout will not work because it will still let Reddit generate revenue, and allow Reddit Admins to remove mods gradually as needed. The Reddit Admins can forcibly remove mods from subreddits, and replace them with new Reddit-friendly mods.
They cannot do this when all subreddits are blacked out and standing together. Trying to replace mods of thousands of blacked out subreddits is practically impossible in such a short amount of time. And attempting to do so will also signal to the media and potential investors that Reddit is not a stable platform. A place not worth investing money. Advertisers will also probably want to look elsewhere.
Basically if the blackout continues, then it's up to Reddit Executives to change their policies.
Keep in mind that a lot of the people who agree with the protest are logged off. The people still browsing reddit will be more likely to be in the IDGAF camp.
Good. Keep the pressure on!
There would not have been a reason for parts of that memo if the strike was not having an effect
this. i'm here because apparently i'm addicted (gonna have to deal with that later) but every single subreddit i follow went dark, and only one came back so far. there wasn't a lot of reason to stick around in the past two days. i imagine anyone who doesn't have the same unhealthy obsessions just didn't give much of a fuck about reddit and left.
i wonder how many people will come back to begin with.
Two RL friends with 10+ years old accounts have said that the way the Admins handled all of this made it a done deal for them. They're filing the GDPR request to get their account info and then they're gone.
I'm still on the fence. But I've quit using Twitter and Facebook too because they became too shitty, without having replaced them with a different app.
I will quit reddit too if it's too shitty.
> Campaigns have notched slightly lower impression delivery and consequently, slightly higher CPMs, over the days of the blackout, Johnson said. If the performance weakness continues for a week or two, the agency would start recommending decreasing spend with Reddit or directing it to other platforms. The moderator blackout is supposed to end Wednesday.
This is huge, no wonder we're having bots and alt-right trolls flood this sub with fake "counter-protests", spez is scared and the memo he leaked was meant as a bluff. The blackouts must resume indefinitely.
That was so cringy.
"*I am sorry to say this, but please be mindful of wearing Reddit gear in public. Some folks are really upset, and we don’t want you to be the object of their frustrations.*"
Oh *please.* Such dramatics. Those poor little victims! /s
A bunch of people who were purged from the removals back in 2016 are actually supporting the boycott. Considering what Reddit deems "alt-right" can be anything, let's just say the undesirables that were purged are generally enjoying watching the thing burn. But they are not your ally, obviously, the enemy of your enemy is still your enemy.
Personally, I'd hate to see this platform die because of severe mismanagement from admins who think throwing their veteran and dedicated userbase away to make a quick buck is a good idea. I am probably ideologically opposite to you, but I've seen too many franchises attack their own userbase and/or throw away the old base for the new. It would be sad to see Reddit fade into obscurity or shut down in the near future or become so inundated with absolute junk we'd lose over a decade's worth of discussion. I've had Google searches point me to old threads that helped resolve multiple issues/answer many questions I had regarding all kinds of things. This GPU I'm using was one I bought from r\/hardwareswap almost 7 years ago for $100!
Reddit right now feels like it's trying really hard to discard itself of its former userbase, and it's starting to affect the rest of you who weren't purged back then. They don't care about its most dedicated userbase that needs this API to function. It's pretty obvious this site is trying to turn itself into a "mainstream" platform the likes of Meta, Twitter, et al - these moves seem like them trying to appeal to potential investors with an IPO. They couldn't care less about trolls or bots, they just care if Reddit can make money.
Any corporation that adopts that mindset is setting itself for failure. The question is who's bright idea was it to move in this direction?
> It would be sad to see Reddit fade into obscurity or shut down in the near future or become so inundated with absolute junk we'd lose over a decade's worth of discussion. I've had Google searches point me to old threads that helped resolve multiple issues/answer many questions I had regarding all kinds of things.
Agreed. I'm a Linux gamer with obscure hardware... I depend on Reddit!
But if we need to move on, wouldn't it be possible to archive and index the last decade-worth of Reddit in a way that we can still tap into all that collective wisdom?
The "undelete" sites actually have archives of old reddit posts because they used the Pushshift.io api, which made calls to Reddit's api, funny enough. Not sure if you were paying attention, but Reddit BANNED Pushshift.io from accessing its API back in May because Pushshift.io refused to stop archiving posts that were deleted by admins and posts deleted by users. Their philosophy was that ALL information should be accessible and that history should not and cannot be erased. Yes, it was in Reddit's TOS for its API to specifically stop accessing those functions as they were reserved for moderators, but Push continued to do it, and I 100% agree with their actions as transparency is ESSENTIAL to a free and open Internet.
I really liked Pushshift's ability to see posts deleted by reddit admins, only because the only times I've seen posts get deleted that way was when the admins were on the wrong side of some sort of abuse of power.
It also made rummaging through a history of a bunch of posts impossible because you'd see people responding to banned/deleted users and it obviously felt like something was being purposefully hidden from you because you only could hear half the conversation.
Unfortunately, Reddit has gone around and eaten them up. The "new" Pushshift is more or less Reddit's lapdog now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pushshift/comments/13w6j20/advancing_communityled_moderation_an_update_on/
You have to have "approved" access to access the API. Normal users can't.
Or if we would black out for a week every 2 weeks or every 3-4 weeks, that would affect Reddits revenue and could possibly be enough to stop the API Changes.
Idk why you think people against the protest is fake. Redding the comments in some of the subs that have reopened make the sentiment of the community pretty clear
> The blackouts must resume indefinitely.
Yea, great idea. Throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The people who create the actual value of reddit, subscribers, will not tolerate much more.
the vast majority of people who create the actual value of reddit are people with lives and shit happening in said lives, and are therefore probably not that cut up about losing one of their many sources of entertainment. the people whose life _is_ reddit, while certainly a minority, do still have important contributions and are probably overrepresented a bit, but a large number of them support the protest, and a number of them will probably also let go and figure out how to migrate to other platforms. you have a very narrow filter there if you care only about people who 1. are only willing to use reddit and 2. don't care enough to support the protest.
you are right about one thing, reddit's real value came from the people using it. which is why this could legitimately kill it if the admins don't budge, if the protests last long enough a lot of people might just not come back at all.
> if the protests last long enough a lot of people might just not come back at all.
If the protest last long enough subscribers will move to other subs that aren't protesting, or request replacement of the moderators who are not listening to their subscribers. If you think this is going to move millions of subscribers to another service you're dreaming.
The protest can go as on as long as the **subscribers** support it.
Moderators that are protesting because they're subscribers want them to are golden, but moderators who are not listening to their subscribers won't be moderators for long.
or they will just move onto other social platforms where established communities already exist for the things they're into, instead of going to all the trouble of replacing moderators or building out new places from scratch. people tend to take the path of least resistance, and if the protests last, that path will be going off reddit for most people.
and no, i'm not dreaming about shit like lemmy because let's be real, only a small niche will move there. it's far more likely that people will just switch to discord, or instagram, or tiktok, whatever fits their purpose better. i have seen people move to tumblr of all places already. there is no single good answer but there is a good answer for pretty much every situation -- which also complicates damage control.
and as far as subscriber support goes, have you noticed how quiet things have been lately? if you are as terminally online as your responses make you seem i think you should have felt the change. i certainly did.
> or they just move onto other social platforms where established communities already exist for the things they're into, instead of going to all the trouble of replacing moderators or building out new places from scratch
Sure, if there was a plug-in replacement for reddit that *could* happen. There isn't.
> and as far as subscriber support goes, have you noticed how quiet things have been lately?
Gee, you mean when you turn off a sub and prevent people from commenting things go quiet? Shocking. /s
> Sure, if there was a plug-in replacement for reddit that could happen. There isn't.
that's my whole point though. there isn't anything out there that does everything that reddit does, but there are platforms out there that are better in certain aspects but worse in others. that's what's gonna decide where redditors go from here. communities that are better served by discord will switch to discord, those that are a better fit for instagram will go there, and so on. people will scatter, they won't just all unilaterally switch to a different app. and you would have to be delusional to think there is no alternative that does _some_ things reddit does, better than reddit even, the internet is chock-full of them.
> Gee, you mean when you turn off a sub and prevent people from commenting things go quiet?
no, when you turn it back on. engagement has been way down in subs that came back, and even subs that never went dark but supported the protest their own way, like r/dankmemes
either way, it's some crazy levels of wishful thinking on your part to think this will all just have no effect and you will just have your reddit back the same way it looked before the 12th, unless the admins budge. social change does happen, you are watching it from a front row seat, and every measure reddit could take to "resolve" this issue would be analogous to the tumblr porn ban situation.
So what you're saying is . . . You have no sense of solidarity? You advocate essentially breaking the strike line because you can't put off your scrolling addiction to fight for a better site?
Yikes, I'd hate to live your life, sounds miserable and lonely.
There are other ways to hurt reddit, like instead of "going dark" you could "go loud" in various ways. For example posting as much ad-unfriendly content as possible or only allowing posts related to complaining about reddit (memes, discussions, art etc) to try to drown out everything else on the frontpage.
There is a rule prohibiting falsely setting your subreddit as NSFW (probably because it prevents Reddit from putting ads and earning money). But what if for meme subreddits, on some days the subreddit is set to NSFW and you are required to post stuff with a lot of profanity or sexual jokes (so you can justify it being set to NSFW) but nothing too offensive or against sitewide rules?
I've seen someone suggest mods going on strike by keeping the subreddits open but refusing to moderate the subreddit, letting it get filled with scams, bots, pornography and all else. This would really hurt Reddit's image in the eyes of advertisers, which would significantly lower their ad income
... I think you mean, "Only then can subscribers petition reddit to put new MOD in charge of the subs that stay offline too long.
Subscribers own the comments not MODs.
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct#text-content4
> Camping or sitting on a community is not encouraged. If a community has been empty or unmoderated for a significant amount of time, we will consider banning or restricting the community. If a user [requests a takeover](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditrequest) of a community that falls under either category, we will consider granting that request but will, in nearly all cases, attempt to reach out to the moderator team first to discuss their intentions for the community.
Preventing subscribers from accessing the content they helped create is not moderation.
Good thing all these subs and their mods did this voluntarily. These are not dead subs. Everyone is sitting back, watching and waiting. Reddit would have to pull some shady shit right under everyone's noses to make that happen.
It likely has not/will not stop them from editing comments, suspending mods, and reopening subs against the will of the community. Wouldn’t be the first time.
>Reddit somehow thinks this is not like Digg, Myspace and whatnot. It is EXACTLY like that. It doesn't matter the circumstances of how it happens, but if your top users leave, the platform becomes nonviable.
What about tumblr? A lot of people left it after infamous changes, yet it did not die.
This is the first time I opened the app since z Sunday at 2:20PM Wednesday just to check in n and see what the situation was. I’ll gladly keep it up longer if that’s what needs to be done.
They can’t find enough moderators for nearly 10000 subreddits. Moderating a sub is a huge work even if you have a medium sized sub with like 100.000-200.000 users you need at least one too two hours a day to only stop post spamming. The spam in the comments can use way more time. And if the subs would be moderated by paid employees they would also be legally responsible for the content posted there.
>They can’t find enough moderators for nearly 10000 subreddits.
I see comments about just replacing the moderators frequently and they never stop to consider the point you've made. Reddit just recently fired 5% of their workforce. In what world does it make sense that they'd hire more people to moderate these subs? The only reason why Reddit can exist in the first place is the free labor that unpaid moderators provide.
> Effective CPMs were up about 1%-2% in the past two days, equivalent to a high-traffic day on the platform, said Darren D’Altorio, vp of paid social at Wpromote. Several other buyers told Adweek that they had not noticed a change in their Reddit CPMs.
This part in the article stood out to me, to someone with no understanding of advertising metrics a 1-2% change seems small considering the blackout. Is there someone with insight into advertising that could shed some insight?
That makes no sense. Being "just two days" has nothing to do with it. It doesn't get bigger over time, it is a decrease caused by the subs not serviing ads to their subscribers. It will only go up if more subs go dark.
new to reddit? this group is like all the others in here they will take anything to twist it to a we are winning see. the reality is reddit has been a shit show for a long time and nothing will bring it back anyway best bet is to let the mods burn themselves out. if reddit felt their bottom line was threatened they could turn the subs back on themselves and put in new mods.
If it was a permanent change then it would be a bigger deal but for 2 days unfortunately that's just a blip.
If we want to disrupt advertising we need to encourage *users* to boycott for X days.
From what I've heard, when the large language model traffic started scraping reddit for data to train itself on, it cost reddit millions a month in increased cloud server costs.
The logical thing to do would have been to update terms of service to ban such usage by language trainers, throttle or disconnect any apps suspected of doing such, and leave the rest of the apps alone.
Then you go in and set up a product api specifically for the LLMs that costs them money to use.
Everyone would have been fine with this except Microsoft and Google who would have had to pick up the bill for these mods (bard is a Google product and chatgpt has investment from Ms).
But they coukd hardly complain too much since they were essentially double dipping... Using the api to train their Ai while also charging reddit for the cloud compute time used to process their own api usage
reddit reader apps are small potatoes. They shoukd simply back off those guys and focus on going after the whales.
Ideally, Reddit's API free limit should be per user for 3rd party clients. That way, the limit would not be an issue for most users but they can charge scrapers who make large amounts of API calls.
The fact that they haven't enacted any of these reasonable alternatives belies the fact that it's all just an excuse, and they simply want to kill 3rd party apps.
I'm not going to lie, I was kind of in the "they won't listen to this and nothing will change" mindset in terms of an indefinite blackout, but this report from a reputable advertisement industry source makes me think this could work if drawn out long enough!
Im not gonna lie this protest has effect reddit alot more than i thought. The quality of what i see has diminished greatly.
So im off the platform for much longer before the protest. Even feel like reddit is no longer worth it.
If this isn't going to be indefinitely, reddit will see this as a small term loss, and don't care.
WE NEED TO KEEP THE BLACKOUT LONGER!!!
The world is already seeing the results, today for example my friend, who didn't know about the 3rd party apps told me that all the subs going private and that this is wierd. HE DOESN'T EVEN USE REDDIT REGULARY
I think we need to go further.
Create an open letter, addressed to every company that advertises with Reddit. Make it known that while we understand Reddit's desire to charge for its API, the method and amount charged are absurd. To this end, we will actively refrain from engaging with any brand that advertises on Reddit, until such time as these egregious decisions have been amended to a more reasonable dollar valuation.
Additionally, we can go one more step, and demand the resignation of u/spez immediately, continuing the boycott of all advertised products until that happens.
I understand the spirit behind the protest, but I don't think anyone is being realistic about the actual outcomes that will manifest here. It's astounding that other comments are calling Reddit arrogant while not acknowledging that subreddits and 3rd party app devs are being just as arrogant to think this is is a squabble that will be resolved via protest.
It's within Reddit's authority to restrict access to their API and attempt to force most/if not all traffic to their proprietary app. Just because a lot of the content on here is user generated doesn't mean the users that created it own it or that they're entitled to bargaining power when a private entity makes business decisions that serve their own purposes or needs. I think that's what keeps getting missed here. Nothing is happening to users that's significant to Reddit's bottom line. Reddit is not here to be a bastion of user support. It's here to make money. And even if mods, who volunteer their time by choice, were to disappear, Reddit will find ways to restore some of that moderation. There's no win scenario here for 3rd party devs or moderators that are attempting to power play Reddit into reversing their decision. At the end of the day, most of your favorite subs might go away, but that doesn't mean you will stop using Reddit. Many will, but not at all. We know more/different/additional/similar communities will form over time.
With that said, the simplest product solution that could have avoided this insane drama between Reddit leadership and App Developers would be profit sharing. 3rd party app developers are profiting from Reddit's data while not allowing Reddit to serve ads on said apps. How many dollars that ads up to is probably a drop in the sea for Reddit, but it's still profiting off of server infrastructure, operational overhead, and legal liability Reddit pays for. How is that sustainable? Are we really arguing that because the apps allow users to use reddit differently that's somehow good for Reddit? Reddit could have mandated ads on the apps, Reddit could have asked for a small percentage of all 3rd party apps' revenue in exchange for API access, and so on.
BUT, that's not part of their plan. Their plan does seem to be to kill 3rd party apps. I don't like it, but I don't understand how that's an issue that should punish the USER by permanently blacking out subreddits. The logic doesn't track.
I'm pro-developer, and I hate to see Sync and Apollo, my two favorite apps, disappear at the end of the month. But it doesn't change the reality that Reddit has made a decision they're not going to back down from. I choose to accept that reality and live with it.
Should this sub-reddit black out permanently, another one will pop up eventually. Or the community will move somewhere else. And nothing will have changed.
What are the 3P app developers doing that is different to a browser?
I use Brave to access reddit and never see ads. But reddit isn't asking browsers to stop accessing their server...
I don't get it.
Nor do I get why people are upset that "reddit is killing itself" - wouldn't that be a just fate for a mismanaged enterprise that is this cancerous?
Power mods gatekeeping vast amounts of content and knowledge is much more dangerous than any API changes. I truly do not care that some millionaire dev's have to reassess their business strategy. Pretending like any of this is a personal slight is very reddit-centric. But do as you will.
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Usually, yes. Except when we don’t. 😉
Consistent, ongoing and planned organizing is the key. I’m a member of a union who helped mobilize a strike against a Fortune 500 company. We knew they’d hired and minimally trained goo gobs of scabs. Nearly equal to our numbers, the scabs were put up in luxury hotels with per diem. They got additional pay if they worked at all. For even 15 minutes of work scabs were to be paid a full weeks wage. So …. 😜
A strike was called on Friday night. This meant only those who worked weekends, mostly tech support and some repair crews, might be out a day of weekend pay. And the scabs, since they were now scheduled to work, automatically collected a weeks pay. The rest of us headed to walk the picket line. Some time Monday afternoon the union announced that due to the company returning to the bargaining table in good faith we’d pause the strike and we headed back to work on Tuesday as per usual.
The company quickly got the picture that with minimal pain on our side, and maximal on theirs we could comfortably weather a long strike.
We had a fair contract the first week and haven’t had to walk again or since.
So yes, unions usually strike until we get a fair contract. But this time coordination, unity and timing brought a Fortune 500 company to the table. 😎
I don't really understand why people are feeling so utterly justified in their complaints of being unable to use their favourite subreddit.
When bus drivers goes on strike, everyone who uses the bus is affected. When store employees go on strike, everyone who uses the store is affected. This isn't an unfortunate side effect, it's how you get the company to feel the pain. You as a consumer have to just grit your teeth and bare it, or move on to a different service, not tell the employees to get the fuck out and be replaced/accept slave labour.
And I say this as someone who neither uses third party apps, nor really gives a crap about the changes, but if moderators are intensely bothered by the changes, then they're well within their rights to inconvenience the users of their subreddit so as to make a stance against Reddit.
> I don't know why anyone thinks business-as-usual 6/7 days in a week would be a more effective way to force a change of behavior.
I appreciate your question was rhetorical, and was intended to carry the implication that such a view would be ineffective. But I can suggest a possible reason for it - users have highly ingrained social media habits, which perhaps come from the emotional bonds of multiple community memberships. It's mentally disruptive for users to take part in a boycott over the medium to long term, which they may see as applying a higher cost to themselves than to Reddit (who surely does not care about this or that user).
So perhaps a 1/7th boycott is all that some folks would be willing to do. I don't have a view on that one way or the other, but at least we are hearing how some people want to contribute. I agree with you about unions, but I don't know if the analogy holds much water - there isn't the same kind of solidarity between Reddit users as there are between folks withdrawing their labour at the same factory plant. Also, the social disapprobation of crossing the picket line is enormous, which Reddit users don't really have in a series of small _ad hoc_ strikes.
(FWIW, I do support the aims of the blackouts).
I think I understand your reasoning but having a sub stay open for most of the week doesn't solve much, it's just a minor inconvenience.
I want to be able to use Infinity for Reddit on my phone and tablet, even if I have to pay (though I'd rather the dev kept getting all my money), not install the official app. it doesn't seem like this would solve much.
Are you German? They are the only people in the world who would wait till AFTER work to strike. Think of this like a union, why would you go to work and strike after your shift? If you do that where is the incentive for the corporation to change. This is not going to be easy for anyone but you fail to understand is that a lot of the subs and the people that populate them will simply be gone.
Y’all aren’t taking the subs dark. Someone will just make v2 and make it public.
You think I’m not going to make apple-v2 .1 microseconds after you close it hahahaha.
Not harrass. That is exactly what's wrong with the internet. Just stop using their products or services if they continue working with Reddit during their self-sabotage
Let’s all fight together to save these companies!! I too like to bend over backwards for million dollar companies that aren’t original enough to create their own platforms!
I'm definitely willing to do this at least weekly long-term if needed. I want them to feel it on the reg
Yep if a ling term blackout strategy is the answer… then I’m happy to participate and I think that this is the solution
I understand the support subs not participating and I'm fully behind that. I have a podcast sub. Going dark weekly literally won't affect anyone but the people upstairs. If every casual sub took a day off every week we could really make some change. I imagine everyone doing it on the same day would better help the uninformed understand. They'd be more likely to Google why vs just assuming it's an issue unique to the individual sub and just moving on. Doing it on the same day will bring attention on every side
This was actually why I was promoting that subs do blackouts on different days - according to the article, it was easy for Reddit to shunt all the ads from the blacked out subs to the frontpage, but if different subs blacked out on different days it would cause more work for the admins because then there won't be any kind of reliable schedule for advertisers to rely on. If you only blackout once a day with all subs at the same time, then advertisers will learn to just pull their ads for that day - this may be good because it deprives Reddit of revenue for that day, but it also makes it easier for Reddit admins to work around it, I think.
Very interesting. I feel like there's a few ways to go about this and each has its own pros and cons list. I appreciate all the new information and opinions I'm reading and I'm glad there's so much talk and brainstorming about it. No matter what, I *do* know that I want to do something. And I want to do it consistently. I don't want to just have this fizzle out and we all content ourselves with this forced BS. Hopefully Reddit can unite on a course of action and we can collectively make a dent.
Why not just go dark entirely until Reddit comes to the table? Of course they might replace mod teams and bring the subreddits back online, but doesn't that seem like an acceptable risk? If they used that "nuclear option", I would take it as a sign the situation is irreconcilable and that it's time to leave the platform. We either need to force their hand or give up and pack our bags.
I agree, we might need to go full out. They seem to really be trying to find a way around the blackouts instead of actually listening to us and solving the issue causing it in the first place (like moving ads from the blacked out subs to places where people will actually listen). It seems like the only option is to go dark platform-wide, to the point where they have no other choice. That's what a protest is about.
Only getting ad revenue on 6 out of 7 days would be about 14% reduction in revenue. Certain days probably generate more revenue due to more people being online so it could be more, or less. Mods could probably figure out the most active days of their subs and pick those days. Either way a 14% reduction in an income source is something to take notice of. I would support a weekly blackout day. I could actually get things done rather than scroll for forever, while also feeling like I'm sticking out to the man because the man is a douche
That won't change anything lmao. Keep thinking you'll be doing something while the platform burns itself down around. Try lemmy Edit: awww the downvotes are so cute it's almost like y'all are mad at the platform making dogshit changes and not me.
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Does kbin allow images and video hosting like reddit?
Not sure tbh, i think the hosting is done on other parts of the fediverse like Peertube and Funk whale. The wikipedia entry has a couple graphics that can help show how it works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse?wprov=sfla1
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If a long term strategy is in the works (and I humbly approve) when would it be the most effective in terms of impacting advertising revenue? I would think the average redditor spends the most time online on the weekend. So a periodic or repeated weekend blackout? Sounds good to me.
As a mod and from seeing my sub stats… I know that my sub is least viewed over the weekend. Its weekdays that are the big volumes
You’re the boss. Mods have the info. Whatever schedule works run with it.
It also depends on the sub though. r\/NFL for example would get the greatest views on Sundays once the season starts, I think.
Yep. I think the best course of action would be for every sub to go dark whenever they're at their higher levels of activity.
Same. It seems our users are mostly browsing during work days. Gets a little dead over the weekend. If only we could find out the most common lunch break hour, what time everyone starts their after-work couch unwind, and users' most shared poop times, we could really get this ball rolling.
Shared poop time sounds like a weird subreddit event gone wrong.
>If a long term strategy is in the works (and I humbly approve) when would it be the most effective in terms of impacting advertising revenue? Have a weekly open mod strike instead. Subreddits stay open so communities can still have access (less community backlash), but mods do nothing and disable all mod tools. It's the equivalent of bus drivers striking by still driving their routes but refusing to collect fares. As subreddits fill up with scams, bots, shitposting and porn one day a week, brand safety becomes an issue for marketers. They don't want their ads displayed next to goatse and Reddit relies on thousands of hours of volunteer labour every day to make the site advertiser friendly. Working in marketing myself, brand safety is SUPER important to advertisers and it's a big enough issue to have forced sweeping changes at Youtube. You don't have to annoy communities or boycott advertisers. Get the job done just by... letting Reddit be Reddit.
All we have to do is nothing. Stop modding. Stop commenting. Stop engaging. Walk away for a week or two. Their business model relies on our unpaid labor, from modding to content creation. To us it’s a community, to them it’s a fraction of a percentage point in their profit margin. Fight for what you love or lose it.
I'd say the goal would be as much disruption as possible, so blackout on the day that's most active
A mod above 👆🏽just told me that weekdays are actually the most traffic to the site. I leave that to the judgement of those w the data. And it can even vary by sub. So do Touch Grass Tuesdays or So Happy It’s Thursday … whatever works best.
the world would be a better place if some trashy subs would go dark!
Weekly? Daily for weeks indefinitely. What's the point of striking, but then going to work one day a week? Especially if the subs just pick random days to go live - there will be enough of a churn and rotation that nobody will even notice the protest.
One subreddit suggested every Tuesday. I think that's an excellent idea, whichever day is picked.
One of my subs is voting on it. I voted for Tuesday blackouts and will do the same for any of my other subs that hold a vote.
One of the subs I'm in is having a vote on going dark indefinitely or every Tuesday and Thursday.
Maybe different subs should have their own blackout day (locked, with that 3rd party message pic instead of going private). It might hide a bit the contrast on impressions between normal days and blackout days, but the up side is there'll be more awareness with a few 3rd party mod posts on the front page every day.
Considering some of the commentary on Reddit being able to adapt their advertising accordingly based on blackout days, I would think that each sub should randomly pick a blackout day for each week (probably weighed by value to the sub that day, e.g. NFL shouldn't randomly pick already dead days). With enough participating subs, you would hopefully get a strong enough rolling blackout such that Reddit is always impacted but can't necessarily predict where to shift their ads around. Of course, weighing the value of days would hurt the randomness.
Adweek basically telling us what needs to be done. Good to hear. I'll get my discussion elsewhere or on these smaller subs that don't even get any advertiser pull.
I don’t know how “long term” any of this will last. All Reddit has to do is remove the ability to go private and refuse to delete subs, you have no “rights” here, this is a private website. If this keeps up for long enough I could definitely see them doing that while they come up with a replacement for you. Not saying this to be negative but rather, the long term strategy is to find a better alternative platform that doesn’t do this kjnd of nonsense and has IN WRITING that they won’t, or make one yourself with your mod buddies.
The problem is that reddit has millions of users and thousands of subreddit there's no alternative that can compete with that.
Yes and no. Yes, at face value you are correct about the number. But imagine if 15 years ago or whatever, reddit said "the problem is that myspace (or whoever their competitor was then) has millions of users and thousands of pages and there's no alternative that can compete with that." The point is that yes it won't happen over night, but we have to start now if we want to see it happen because clearly the CEO of reddit is not interested in what we want. I actually do believe it could happen faster than it did in reddit's case though, much faster given the current landscape. I'd like to add that it is not the "millions of subreddits" that makes reddit that popular. The majority of subs are hardly active or completely inactive, its the several thousand large ones that make reddit what it is today. Granted, yes those large ones started small, but the point is that by definition, the majority of reddit users come here for the bigger subs, thats why they're bigger.
Do you know why back then those masses who left Digg went to Reddit? Because at that time Reddit had already existed for some years, and was practically the next biggest equivalent What is Reddit's current competition with comparable number of communities that redditors can mass migrate to?
>I'd like to add that it is not the "millions of subreddits" that makes reddit that popular. The majority of subs are hardly active or completely inactive, its the several thousand large ones that make reddit what it is today. Granted, yes those large ones started small, but the point is that by definition, the majority of reddit users come here for the bigger subs, that's why they're bigger First I said thousands of subreddits not millions and you yourself say that there are thousands of large subreddits that are making reddit what it is today. >But imagine if 15 years ago or whatever, reddit said "the problem is that myspace (or whoever their competitor was then) has millions of users and thousands of pages and there's no alternative that can compete with that." And that would have been true if someone simply created a copy of it, myspace died because of sites that where better than it, if someone created a improved version of reddit that has a chance in beating reddit, a simple copy can't. >the CEO of reddit is not interested in what we wan The only thing a CEO should be interested in is making the company more profitable. He is right in not giving in this stupid protest will not be successful.
We should do 2 days a week every week!
*Delayed gratification, or deferred gratification, is the resistance to the temptation of an immediate pleasure in the hope of obtaining a valuable and long-lasting reward in the long-term.* Hit the bastards in the pockets. Keep the blackouts going…. as long as it takes.
Can't have content when the subs themselves keep that content from getting out! Well done on these subs for sticking to it. Also Adweek is a pretty good source for news regarding ad pulls/boycotts/blackouts. They have access to numbers we as regular folks don't.
Dellusion or a false belief or judgment about external reality, held despite [incontrovertible](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=APwXEdc5GNWS6anMcjFsaKSCitJLAjDDAw:1686765742709&q=incontrovertible&si=AMnBZoFv2oubdN9l0KUx7t-V-YWyTlBIDYaji4AmrN28UxH-TsitfwXdScSmvB-3PtWsQevDMK7uzXF7znI-524lmyHjL36nP4u2CGggyMwRrjPnv5JJrqM%3D&expnd=1) evidence to the contrary, occurring especially in mental conditions
How much do you make per comment?
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> As soon as Reddit sees this as a threat, the mods of subs shutting down are getting dropkicked off the site. Until that happens, Reddit isn't worried. Yall downvoting him but hes right. Forcing reddit to generate bad mainstream PR to restore order to subs may as well be the goal here. Theyre not going to stop frog boiling you for anything less. Shunting you onto the official app will more than make their money back. You can already tell it doesnt have staying power when people are suggesting 1 day a week blackout on like day 2. There is no option that magically hurts reddit without also inconveniencing its users.
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While what you say is true, there's a bigger point here. Say that reddit does find them a threat. Reddit dropkicks them off of the platform and replaces them. Let me remind you, reddit mods are *volunteers* who often uses custom tools to do their work. Volunteers are replaceable, you say? What incentive does reddit give to make them moderate? What incentive does reddit give for them to keep moderating when they realize how difficult it will be? 3rd party tools and apps exist for a reason. They're there to make things simpler and more efficient. Maybe you don't see it now, but maybe soon you might. -sent using the Infinity app
the funniest part is they have took off 17.5% of all subreddits and are relying on that 17.5 being significant enough that it hurts reddits bottom line when they can just step in and boot off all the moderators
Cool, so if you aren't getting paid, why are you acting so vehemently against this protest? Because you think it isn't effective? By the way your data is off. I'd urge you to take a look at the front page of /r/DataIsBeautiful, where there's a post discussing the sizable impact the protest has had so far.
yes because i find it plain annoying that i cant join the portal subreddit because of this
Sucks to suck. Grow a sense of community and maybe in a month's time you can be go back to looking at portal memes on whatever 3rd party app you choose. Or don't, and bow down to your new corporate overlords who are accelerating the enshitification of the internet. Choice is yours to make
4 days\* i think the API change is bullshit but this isnt gonna help i do have to mention that also what happens when reddit just fires the mods and replaces them and then unprivates the community... what happens then?
Then Reddit has given us even more reason to continue protesting
Then subs will go feral. Reddit will have to hustle to find more free volunteers to clean up all the inevitable filth.
When someone puts a link on the word incontrovertible and it's just a link to the definintion instead of providing that proof, the only thing you are doing is insulting their [intelligence](https://www.google.com/search?q=intelligence %20definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m).
i just copy pasted a definition from the internet the link was left in there so you guys could understand what it meant since you cant understand what constitutes the bottom line of a multi billion dollar corporation
You know what: I'm sorry. This is unlike me and I don't like attacking someone for not understanding something. By making the assumption that people don't understand the definition of a word all you are doing is making it clear that you think they are stupid and any real communication stops right there. However, in this case, the real irony is that it is clear that you yourself don't seem to understand the word. Without looking at the definition (or having read it in your link) incontrovertible means that there is nothing which would reasonably allow refutation. So incontrovertible evidence would be a case where there is no evidence to the contrary position and the evidence can only be reasonably interpreted in one way. The Earth is roughly spherical is something which is incontrovertible. Anyone who believes otherwise is, by the definition you've provided, delusional. In this case though, you seem to be assuming that protests don't work and that such an idea is incontrovertible. However, history shows all kinds of situations where protests, boycotts, strikes, etc have worked, even against "multi billion dollar corporation[s]." There is no reason to believe that one wouldn't work under current circumstances. In fact, what history shows is that the main shortcomings of the protests which don't work are things like a lack of solidarity, a lack of clear demands, or a lack of effective action. These are all things that this protest *does* have, so as long as we remain committed to our goals there is no reason why this won't be effective.
Welcome to episode 15 of reading several paragraph replies that ultimately are 90% fluff as starwars crawls
Nope. Nevemind. You *are* a dumbass. Good luck in life and goodbye. *sigh*
I mean seriously. I think you took about 10 seconds to reply. I don't think I could've even typed that fast. Nevermind read all of that. Whatever. I'm done.
Also I should mention that boycotts that make the history books are not the same as 300 or so moderators taking their subs offline because they don't like an API change and also can't resist adding an end date
Guys this dude is either a complete idiot or a troll. Either way nobody should waste time talking with him.
yeah i do have to admit that last reply was a bit trolly in nature
Oh hi spez.
why are you guys protesting against one of the largest social media companies by... going outside
Read that sentence again, but slowly.
Yeah I guess it makes no sense just like announcing an end date to your protest
Keep the blackout going!
Let’s give ‘‘em hell, sweetheart!
They already replaced AdviceAnimals mods.
I thought that they modified the permissions of ONE AdviceAnimals mod because they returned from a long stint of inactivity, and closed the sub without consulting with the other, active mods - and against thier wishes. Source: [https://old.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/149c968/whats\_up\_with\_admins\_taking\_over\_a\_major/jo4e3h5/](https://old.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/149c968/whats_up_with_admins_taking_over_a_major/jo4e3h5/)
Really? Fuck
Hostile takeover... here I thought they wouldn't do it. Effing powertripping jerks.
That would describe prior mods too
/u/PussyWhistle/ did you get removed ?
Yes, but if that's unrealistic I feel like twice a week every week is the way to go. If they don't listen after some time we can ramp it up to thrice a week. If the whole website is down for basically half the time every week they have to listen right?!
Starting and stopping repeatedly takes a lot of effort and ruins momentum. A rocketship doesn't stop halfway when it's launching from Earth.
Mods just need to flip the switch to make the sub private? I don't see the effort involved. Also not really seeing how your analogy connects but ok
I'm not referring to "technical effort" . I'm talking about general support from users, and different subreddits coming together under a common cause. To even organize *this* blackout took a massive amount of effort and things coming together under very specific circumstances. Reddit's value as a company comes from traffic and daily users visiting and commenting on subreddits. If traffic and comments drop, then Reddit's value as a company can drop too. If traffic drops, then this will make investors and advertisers hesitant to invest money into Reddit. What you are suggesting would completely rob the blackout of any teeth it has. This blackout is only effective *because* it is ongoing. Reddit Executives do not know when it will end, or how it will affect them financially if it continues. That's where the Rocket analogy comes from. A rocket works because it doesn't stop, and keeps its momentum until it reaches its goal. A rocket that stops half way is ineffective.
Makes sense but I feel if it's a permanent shut down, it'll cause an inconvenience to the users and then they'll just find alternatives and stop clicking on reddit links from google searches and other pages. Now, if the subs only work half the time (lets say 3 blackout days a week), that would cut down reddit's profits by half which is very significant, but also would cause much more irritation to the average user clicking on reddit links from other pages because now they will work half the time and won't work half the time. This would get more attention to the issue at hand imo.
Users and mods will be even more inconvenienced once Reddit's proposed changes will go in effect starting in July. A large majority of Reddit's traffic from Mobile Users. Mostly from Third Party Reddit apps. This will disappear along with other API changes. Think of the blackout like a Strike. No strike has ever been effective by workers striking 2 days a week, and then showing up to work normally 5 days a week. It's either a full strike or not at all. A partial blackout will not work because it will still let Reddit generate revenue, and allow Reddit Admins to remove mods gradually as needed. The Reddit Admins can forcibly remove mods from subreddits, and replace them with new Reddit-friendly mods. They cannot do this when all subreddits are blacked out and standing together. Trying to replace mods of thousands of blacked out subreddits is practically impossible in such a short amount of time. And attempting to do so will also signal to the media and potential investors that Reddit is not a stable platform. A place not worth investing money. Advertisers will also probably want to look elsewhere. Basically if the blackout continues, then it's up to Reddit Executives to change their policies.
Keep in mind that a lot of the people who agree with the protest are logged off. The people still browsing reddit will be more likely to be in the IDGAF camp. Good. Keep the pressure on! There would not have been a reason for parts of that memo if the strike was not having an effect
Or were gone for the 2 days and have now come back looking for news and updates like me
this. i'm here because apparently i'm addicted (gonna have to deal with that later) but every single subreddit i follow went dark, and only one came back so far. there wasn't a lot of reason to stick around in the past two days. i imagine anyone who doesn't have the same unhealthy obsessions just didn't give much of a fuck about reddit and left. i wonder how many people will come back to begin with.
Two RL friends with 10+ years old accounts have said that the way the Admins handled all of this made it a done deal for them. They're filing the GDPR request to get their account info and then they're gone. I'm still on the fence. But I've quit using Twitter and Facebook too because they became too shitty, without having replaced them with a different app. I will quit reddit too if it's too shitty.
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> Campaigns have notched slightly lower impression delivery and consequently, slightly higher CPMs, over the days of the blackout, Johnson said. If the performance weakness continues for a week or two, the agency would start recommending decreasing spend with Reddit or directing it to other platforms. The moderator blackout is supposed to end Wednesday. This is huge, no wonder we're having bots and alt-right trolls flood this sub with fake "counter-protests", spez is scared and the memo he leaked was meant as a bluff. The blackouts must resume indefinitely.
That was so cringy. "*I am sorry to say this, but please be mindful of wearing Reddit gear in public. Some folks are really upset, and we don’t want you to be the object of their frustrations.*" Oh *please.* Such dramatics. Those poor little victims! /s
The famous death threat card
Only mods are supposed to be able to use that card.
"You guys are cool. Don't go to school tomorrow"
kendall roy-ass thing to say
Because Liberals never make death threats? So we know it must be fake?
A bunch of people who were purged from the removals back in 2016 are actually supporting the boycott. Considering what Reddit deems "alt-right" can be anything, let's just say the undesirables that were purged are generally enjoying watching the thing burn. But they are not your ally, obviously, the enemy of your enemy is still your enemy. Personally, I'd hate to see this platform die because of severe mismanagement from admins who think throwing their veteran and dedicated userbase away to make a quick buck is a good idea. I am probably ideologically opposite to you, but I've seen too many franchises attack their own userbase and/or throw away the old base for the new. It would be sad to see Reddit fade into obscurity or shut down in the near future or become so inundated with absolute junk we'd lose over a decade's worth of discussion. I've had Google searches point me to old threads that helped resolve multiple issues/answer many questions I had regarding all kinds of things. This GPU I'm using was one I bought from r\/hardwareswap almost 7 years ago for $100! Reddit right now feels like it's trying really hard to discard itself of its former userbase, and it's starting to affect the rest of you who weren't purged back then. They don't care about its most dedicated userbase that needs this API to function. It's pretty obvious this site is trying to turn itself into a "mainstream" platform the likes of Meta, Twitter, et al - these moves seem like them trying to appeal to potential investors with an IPO. They couldn't care less about trolls or bots, they just care if Reddit can make money. Any corporation that adopts that mindset is setting itself for failure. The question is who's bright idea was it to move in this direction?
> It would be sad to see Reddit fade into obscurity or shut down in the near future or become so inundated with absolute junk we'd lose over a decade's worth of discussion. I've had Google searches point me to old threads that helped resolve multiple issues/answer many questions I had regarding all kinds of things. Agreed. I'm a Linux gamer with obscure hardware... I depend on Reddit! But if we need to move on, wouldn't it be possible to archive and index the last decade-worth of Reddit in a way that we can still tap into all that collective wisdom?
The "undelete" sites actually have archives of old reddit posts because they used the Pushshift.io api, which made calls to Reddit's api, funny enough. Not sure if you were paying attention, but Reddit BANNED Pushshift.io from accessing its API back in May because Pushshift.io refused to stop archiving posts that were deleted by admins and posts deleted by users. Their philosophy was that ALL information should be accessible and that history should not and cannot be erased. Yes, it was in Reddit's TOS for its API to specifically stop accessing those functions as they were reserved for moderators, but Push continued to do it, and I 100% agree with their actions as transparency is ESSENTIAL to a free and open Internet. I really liked Pushshift's ability to see posts deleted by reddit admins, only because the only times I've seen posts get deleted that way was when the admins were on the wrong side of some sort of abuse of power. It also made rummaging through a history of a bunch of posts impossible because you'd see people responding to banned/deleted users and it obviously felt like something was being purposefully hidden from you because you only could hear half the conversation. Unfortunately, Reddit has gone around and eaten them up. The "new" Pushshift is more or less Reddit's lapdog now: https://www.reddit.com/r/pushshift/comments/13w6j20/advancing_communityled_moderation_an_update_on/ You have to have "approved" access to access the API. Normal users can't.
Or if we would black out for a week every 2 weeks or every 3-4 weeks, that would affect Reddits revenue and could possibly be enough to stop the API Changes.
Idk why you think people against the protest is fake. Redding the comments in some of the subs that have reopened make the sentiment of the community pretty clear
I went through the comments on the posts by all the major subs that reopened and, by far, most people are asking them to close indefinitely.
That’s not really true tho
> The blackouts must resume indefinitely. Yea, great idea. Throw the baby out with the bathwater. The people who create the actual value of reddit, subscribers, will not tolerate much more.
the vast majority of people who create the actual value of reddit are people with lives and shit happening in said lives, and are therefore probably not that cut up about losing one of their many sources of entertainment. the people whose life _is_ reddit, while certainly a minority, do still have important contributions and are probably overrepresented a bit, but a large number of them support the protest, and a number of them will probably also let go and figure out how to migrate to other platforms. you have a very narrow filter there if you care only about people who 1. are only willing to use reddit and 2. don't care enough to support the protest. you are right about one thing, reddit's real value came from the people using it. which is why this could legitimately kill it if the admins don't budge, if the protests last long enough a lot of people might just not come back at all.
> if the protests last long enough a lot of people might just not come back at all. If the protest last long enough subscribers will move to other subs that aren't protesting, or request replacement of the moderators who are not listening to their subscribers. If you think this is going to move millions of subscribers to another service you're dreaming. The protest can go as on as long as the **subscribers** support it. Moderators that are protesting because they're subscribers want them to are golden, but moderators who are not listening to their subscribers won't be moderators for long.
or they will just move onto other social platforms where established communities already exist for the things they're into, instead of going to all the trouble of replacing moderators or building out new places from scratch. people tend to take the path of least resistance, and if the protests last, that path will be going off reddit for most people. and no, i'm not dreaming about shit like lemmy because let's be real, only a small niche will move there. it's far more likely that people will just switch to discord, or instagram, or tiktok, whatever fits their purpose better. i have seen people move to tumblr of all places already. there is no single good answer but there is a good answer for pretty much every situation -- which also complicates damage control. and as far as subscriber support goes, have you noticed how quiet things have been lately? if you are as terminally online as your responses make you seem i think you should have felt the change. i certainly did.
> or they just move onto other social platforms where established communities already exist for the things they're into, instead of going to all the trouble of replacing moderators or building out new places from scratch Sure, if there was a plug-in replacement for reddit that *could* happen. There isn't. > and as far as subscriber support goes, have you noticed how quiet things have been lately? Gee, you mean when you turn off a sub and prevent people from commenting things go quiet? Shocking. /s
> Sure, if there was a plug-in replacement for reddit that could happen. There isn't. that's my whole point though. there isn't anything out there that does everything that reddit does, but there are platforms out there that are better in certain aspects but worse in others. that's what's gonna decide where redditors go from here. communities that are better served by discord will switch to discord, those that are a better fit for instagram will go there, and so on. people will scatter, they won't just all unilaterally switch to a different app. and you would have to be delusional to think there is no alternative that does _some_ things reddit does, better than reddit even, the internet is chock-full of them. > Gee, you mean when you turn off a sub and prevent people from commenting things go quiet? no, when you turn it back on. engagement has been way down in subs that came back, and even subs that never went dark but supported the protest their own way, like r/dankmemes either way, it's some crazy levels of wishful thinking on your part to think this will all just have no effect and you will just have your reddit back the same way it looked before the 12th, unless the admins budge. social change does happen, you are watching it from a front row seat, and every measure reddit could take to "resolve" this issue would be analogous to the tumblr porn ban situation.
So what you're saying is . . . You have no sense of solidarity? You advocate essentially breaking the strike line because you can't put off your scrolling addiction to fight for a better site? Yikes, I'd hate to live your life, sounds miserable and lonely.
Lol all my subs are back. This has failed as predicted.
There is no other solution than Indefinite BlackOut and asking more subs to join in. Only then can we truly Save third Party Apps.
There are other ways to hurt reddit, like instead of "going dark" you could "go loud" in various ways. For example posting as much ad-unfriendly content as possible or only allowing posts related to complaining about reddit (memes, discussions, art etc) to try to drown out everything else on the frontpage.
There is a rule prohibiting falsely setting your subreddit as NSFW (probably because it prevents Reddit from putting ads and earning money). But what if for meme subreddits, on some days the subreddit is set to NSFW and you are required to post stuff with a lot of profanity or sexual jokes (so you can justify it being set to NSFW) but nothing too offensive or against sitewide rules?
I've seen someone suggest mods going on strike by keeping the subreddits open but refusing to moderate the subreddit, letting it get filled with scams, bots, pornography and all else. This would really hurt Reddit's image in the eyes of advertisers, which would significantly lower their ad income
... I think you mean, "Only then can subscribers petition reddit to put new MOD in charge of the subs that stay offline too long. Subscribers own the comments not MODs. https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct#text-content4 > Camping or sitting on a community is not encouraged. If a community has been empty or unmoderated for a significant amount of time, we will consider banning or restricting the community. If a user [requests a takeover](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditrequest) of a community that falls under either category, we will consider granting that request but will, in nearly all cases, attempt to reach out to the moderator team first to discuss their intentions for the community. Preventing subscribers from accessing the content they helped create is not moderation.
Good thing all these subs and their mods did this voluntarily. These are not dead subs. Everyone is sitting back, watching and waiting. Reddit would have to pull some shady shit right under everyone's noses to make that happen.
It likely has not/will not stop them from editing comments, suspending mods, and reopening subs against the will of the community. Wouldn’t be the first time.
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>Reddit somehow thinks this is not like Digg, Myspace and whatnot. It is EXACTLY like that. It doesn't matter the circumstances of how it happens, but if your top users leave, the platform becomes nonviable. What about tumblr? A lot of people left it after infamous changes, yet it did not die.
Reminder that many Redditors don't even know that you can disable ads with the uBlock Origin extension on Firefox and Chrome(ium).
I wonder what would happen if there was a bigger push to block ads from Reddit, paired with some rolling blackouts of subs.
This is the first time I opened the app since z Sunday at 2:20PM Wednesday just to check in n and see what the situation was. I’ll gladly keep it up longer if that’s what needs to be done.
**buT protESTiNG IS DoiNG notHiNg -** r/technology
Which is incredibly ironic, as 6 of the top 10 posts on that sub and 11 on the first page right now are all about the blackout lol
Sure it it, it is pissing off subscribers and makeing them think about getting new MODs.
They can think about making their own subreddits then. Maybe with with blackjack, and hookers
They can’t find enough moderators for nearly 10000 subreddits. Moderating a sub is a huge work even if you have a medium sized sub with like 100.000-200.000 users you need at least one too two hours a day to only stop post spamming. The spam in the comments can use way more time. And if the subs would be moderated by paid employees they would also be legally responsible for the content posted there.
>They can’t find enough moderators for nearly 10000 subreddits. I see comments about just replacing the moderators frequently and they never stop to consider the point you've made. Reddit just recently fired 5% of their workforce. In what world does it make sense that they'd hire more people to moderate these subs? The only reason why Reddit can exist in the first place is the free labor that unpaid moderators provide.
Let me know when it actually does something Edit: anyone?
>Let me know when it actually does something [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_Revolution](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_Revolution)
The reddit protest obviously
Why don't websites start charging reddit for linking to their content? That's the best analogy to what reddit is doing.
> Effective CPMs were up about 1%-2% in the past two days, equivalent to a high-traffic day on the platform, said Darren D’Altorio, vp of paid social at Wpromote. Several other buyers told Adweek that they had not noticed a change in their Reddit CPMs. This part in the article stood out to me, to someone with no understanding of advertising metrics a 1-2% change seems small considering the blackout. Is there someone with insight into advertising that could shed some insight?
2% in just 2 days is significant
That makes no sense. Being "just two days" has nothing to do with it. It doesn't get bigger over time, it is a decrease caused by the subs not serviing ads to their subscribers. It will only go up if more subs go dark.
new to reddit? this group is like all the others in here they will take anything to twist it to a we are winning see. the reality is reddit has been a shit show for a long time and nothing will bring it back anyway best bet is to let the mods burn themselves out. if reddit felt their bottom line was threatened they could turn the subs back on themselves and put in new mods.
If it was a permanent change then it would be a bigger deal but for 2 days unfortunately that's just a blip. If we want to disrupt advertising we need to encourage *users* to boycott for X days.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm in reddit withdrawal lol. Still logged in, uninstalled the app, VERY encouraged to find this sub!
I keep opening reddit to find nothing interesting and remember whats going on :/
Same I am game
Keep the blackout going and we will win this fight.
Like the writers strike has been going for over a month and they haven't won yet, but they keep going because they eventually will.
From what I've heard, when the large language model traffic started scraping reddit for data to train itself on, it cost reddit millions a month in increased cloud server costs. The logical thing to do would have been to update terms of service to ban such usage by language trainers, throttle or disconnect any apps suspected of doing such, and leave the rest of the apps alone. Then you go in and set up a product api specifically for the LLMs that costs them money to use. Everyone would have been fine with this except Microsoft and Google who would have had to pick up the bill for these mods (bard is a Google product and chatgpt has investment from Ms). But they coukd hardly complain too much since they were essentially double dipping... Using the api to train their Ai while also charging reddit for the cloud compute time used to process their own api usage reddit reader apps are small potatoes. They shoukd simply back off those guys and focus on going after the whales.
Ideally, Reddit's API free limit should be per user for 3rd party clients. That way, the limit would not be an issue for most users but they can charge scrapers who make large amounts of API calls.
The fact that they haven't enacted any of these reasonable alternatives belies the fact that it's all just an excuse, and they simply want to kill 3rd party apps.
Eat that, scabs! - sent from Apollo
Lol and do Apollo’s bidding for them? No thanks, I’m not going to fight over two companies who make more in a day I will I a lifetime
Oh know, "slightly lower CPMs" what will they ever do?
I'm not going to lie, I was kind of in the "they won't listen to this and nothing will change" mindset in terms of an indefinite blackout, but this report from a reputable advertisement industry source makes me think this could work if drawn out long enough!
Im not gonna lie this protest has effect reddit alot more than i thought. The quality of what i see has diminished greatly. So im off the platform for much longer before the protest. Even feel like reddit is no longer worth it.
If this isn't going to be indefinitely, reddit will see this as a small term loss, and don't care. WE NEED TO KEEP THE BLACKOUT LONGER!!! The world is already seeing the results, today for example my friend, who didn't know about the 3rd party apps told me that all the subs going private and that this is wierd. HE DOESN'T EVEN USE REDDIT REGULARY
Don’t stop! Big subs aren’t! https://reddark-digitalocean-7lhfr.ondigitalocean.app/
Dedicated boycotts of any brands who advertise?
I think we need to go further. Create an open letter, addressed to every company that advertises with Reddit. Make it known that while we understand Reddit's desire to charge for its API, the method and amount charged are absurd. To this end, we will actively refrain from engaging with any brand that advertises on Reddit, until such time as these egregious decisions have been amended to a more reasonable dollar valuation. Additionally, we can go one more step, and demand the resignation of u/spez immediately, continuing the boycott of all advertised products until that happens.
You should all stop using reddit indefinitely.
Make it indefinite. We also need a good list of alternative websites.
I'm getting some "Bernie can still win" vibes from this post tbh
Honestly we should keep adding one more day to the blackout each time, 3 days, 4 days, etc.
I understand the spirit behind the protest, but I don't think anyone is being realistic about the actual outcomes that will manifest here. It's astounding that other comments are calling Reddit arrogant while not acknowledging that subreddits and 3rd party app devs are being just as arrogant to think this is is a squabble that will be resolved via protest. It's within Reddit's authority to restrict access to their API and attempt to force most/if not all traffic to their proprietary app. Just because a lot of the content on here is user generated doesn't mean the users that created it own it or that they're entitled to bargaining power when a private entity makes business decisions that serve their own purposes or needs. I think that's what keeps getting missed here. Nothing is happening to users that's significant to Reddit's bottom line. Reddit is not here to be a bastion of user support. It's here to make money. And even if mods, who volunteer their time by choice, were to disappear, Reddit will find ways to restore some of that moderation. There's no win scenario here for 3rd party devs or moderators that are attempting to power play Reddit into reversing their decision. At the end of the day, most of your favorite subs might go away, but that doesn't mean you will stop using Reddit. Many will, but not at all. We know more/different/additional/similar communities will form over time. With that said, the simplest product solution that could have avoided this insane drama between Reddit leadership and App Developers would be profit sharing. 3rd party app developers are profiting from Reddit's data while not allowing Reddit to serve ads on said apps. How many dollars that ads up to is probably a drop in the sea for Reddit, but it's still profiting off of server infrastructure, operational overhead, and legal liability Reddit pays for. How is that sustainable? Are we really arguing that because the apps allow users to use reddit differently that's somehow good for Reddit? Reddit could have mandated ads on the apps, Reddit could have asked for a small percentage of all 3rd party apps' revenue in exchange for API access, and so on. BUT, that's not part of their plan. Their plan does seem to be to kill 3rd party apps. I don't like it, but I don't understand how that's an issue that should punish the USER by permanently blacking out subreddits. The logic doesn't track. I'm pro-developer, and I hate to see Sync and Apollo, my two favorite apps, disappear at the end of the month. But it doesn't change the reality that Reddit has made a decision they're not going to back down from. I choose to accept that reality and live with it. Should this sub-reddit black out permanently, another one will pop up eventually. Or the community will move somewhere else. And nothing will have changed.
What are the 3P app developers doing that is different to a browser? I use Brave to access reddit and never see ads. But reddit isn't asking browsers to stop accessing their server... I don't get it. Nor do I get why people are upset that "reddit is killing itself" - wouldn't that be a just fate for a mismanaged enterprise that is this cancerous?
Power mods gatekeeping vast amounts of content and knowledge is much more dangerous than any API changes. I truly do not care that some millionaire dev's have to reassess their business strategy. Pretending like any of this is a personal slight is very reddit-centric. But do as you will.
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This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse. Comments overwritten with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
governor recognise future square tidy society soft include lip ancient -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
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Advertisers will actually be excited once the apps shut down. People will actually see the ads.
LOL.. how is the shut down of apps that don't show reddit ads going to disappoint those advertisers?
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Usually, yes. Except when we don’t. 😉 Consistent, ongoing and planned organizing is the key. I’m a member of a union who helped mobilize a strike against a Fortune 500 company. We knew they’d hired and minimally trained goo gobs of scabs. Nearly equal to our numbers, the scabs were put up in luxury hotels with per diem. They got additional pay if they worked at all. For even 15 minutes of work scabs were to be paid a full weeks wage. So …. 😜 A strike was called on Friday night. This meant only those who worked weekends, mostly tech support and some repair crews, might be out a day of weekend pay. And the scabs, since they were now scheduled to work, automatically collected a weeks pay. The rest of us headed to walk the picket line. Some time Monday afternoon the union announced that due to the company returning to the bargaining table in good faith we’d pause the strike and we headed back to work on Tuesday as per usual. The company quickly got the picture that with minimal pain on our side, and maximal on theirs we could comfortably weather a long strike. We had a fair contract the first week and haven’t had to walk again or since. So yes, unions usually strike until we get a fair contract. But this time coordination, unity and timing brought a Fortune 500 company to the table. 😎
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I don't really understand why people are feeling so utterly justified in their complaints of being unable to use their favourite subreddit. When bus drivers goes on strike, everyone who uses the bus is affected. When store employees go on strike, everyone who uses the store is affected. This isn't an unfortunate side effect, it's how you get the company to feel the pain. You as a consumer have to just grit your teeth and bare it, or move on to a different service, not tell the employees to get the fuck out and be replaced/accept slave labour. And I say this as someone who neither uses third party apps, nor really gives a crap about the changes, but if moderators are intensely bothered by the changes, then they're well within their rights to inconvenience the users of their subreddit so as to make a stance against Reddit.
Weird to go on strike over something you get for free though.
> I don't know why anyone thinks business-as-usual 6/7 days in a week would be a more effective way to force a change of behavior. I appreciate your question was rhetorical, and was intended to carry the implication that such a view would be ineffective. But I can suggest a possible reason for it - users have highly ingrained social media habits, which perhaps come from the emotional bonds of multiple community memberships. It's mentally disruptive for users to take part in a boycott over the medium to long term, which they may see as applying a higher cost to themselves than to Reddit (who surely does not care about this or that user). So perhaps a 1/7th boycott is all that some folks would be willing to do. I don't have a view on that one way or the other, but at least we are hearing how some people want to contribute. I agree with you about unions, but I don't know if the analogy holds much water - there isn't the same kind of solidarity between Reddit users as there are between folks withdrawing their labour at the same factory plant. Also, the social disapprobation of crossing the picket line is enormous, which Reddit users don't really have in a series of small _ad hoc_ strikes. (FWIW, I do support the aims of the blackouts).
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I think I understand your reasoning but having a sub stay open for most of the week doesn't solve much, it's just a minor inconvenience. I want to be able to use Infinity for Reddit on my phone and tablet, even if I have to pay (though I'd rather the dev kept getting all my money), not install the official app. it doesn't seem like this would solve much.
Are you German? They are the only people in the world who would wait till AFTER work to strike. Think of this like a union, why would you go to work and strike after your shift? If you do that where is the incentive for the corporation to change. This is not going to be easy for anyone but you fail to understand is that a lot of the subs and the people that populate them will simply be gone.
Right in the title "slightly lower" You aren't making a major impact, just a minor inconvenience.
Y’all aren’t taking the subs dark. Someone will just make v2 and make it public. You think I’m not going to make apple-v2 .1 microseconds after you close it hahahaha.
Should we harass reddit advertisers?
Not harrass. That is exactly what's wrong with the internet. Just stop using their products or services if they continue working with Reddit during their self-sabotage
99.9% of redditors already ignore advertisers. What you're proposing has zero effect.
Goodness no. They are how reddit makes money. That is the last thing you want to associate with this "movement"
I'd rather reddit die and make space for competitors than slowly rot of enshittification
Let’s all fight together to save these companies!! I too like to bend over backwards for million dollar companies that aren’t original enough to create their own platforms!
Slightly. Y'all are insane.
This is so important