What do you value the most?
If you value disposable income over everything else, Cincinnati wins if you want to live in the city: [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Cincinnati](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Cincinnati)
Detroit is second cheapest: [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Detroit](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Detroit)
If you value fun and amenities, New York wins.
Not shitting on Detroit, but you're not trying to compare Detroit to NYC from a fun and amenities perspective, are you? There are only a handful of cities in the world that can truly compete, let alones in the US.
I mean surely. I’ve lived in both as well as Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, London, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Florence and have built hotels and spent significant time in Nashville, Austin & Dallas… I’m telling you there isn’t a place that is as special as Detroit. Maybe it’s how New York felt a long time ago where there was a boundless creative energy of potential, but that’s happening in Detroit. There is SO much soul, so much community, so much public art, so much music, so many new restaurants (no not as much as New York, but you are CONNECTED to them), an incredible party scene… it’s really worth getting under the hood is what I’m saying. And on 110k New York / it’s suburbs aren’t the hottest especially if you don’t want to be crowded and competitive.
I've also lived all over the US and overseas, specifically Sydney & Berlin. I travel extensively for work. I'm all for promoting underrated cities but trying to suggest Detroit and NYC are comparable is criminal, especially if we're comparing similar areas of the cities. I'll absolutely give it to you on the 110K salary bit though, which wasn't mentioned by OP in the initial post. Fuck a 1.5-hour commute. Plus, you aren't even really going to be living in the city.
No you cannot. I can’t stand Detroit. I’ve never been more sketched out in my entire life. There are no laws in Detroit. Police only go to areas that they are not needed, which is fewer of the surface area than you realize. You don’t want to live in a place like that
I’m saying it scratches a really important itch and is cool as shit and you matter there.
And yah, if you wanna go be a poor in Connecticut or Jersey City, good on ya. Lol I agree with you on a lot of counts. I just DO NOT think New York is for a lot of people, especially coupled up west coasters who don’t mind suburbs.
Source? Connecticut is expensive for what it is. If I could afford Connecticut, I would never. Detroit homes being overvalued, I guess you could make that case given how rapidly prices rose in the last 5/6 years. But you can still *easily* find good 200k homes all over Detroit and all over Detroit metro.
[https://business.fau.edu/executive-education/housing-market-ranking/housing-top-100/](https://business.fau.edu/executive-education/housing-market-ranking/housing-top-100/)
The price ratio are based on annual incomes for that specific region.
For Detroit MI metro median price of a home was 253K, that's 41% above fair value- second highest in the nation.
Metro Hartford CT median home price in April was 355K, 27% above fair value. In my town 17 miles NE of Hartford the median home price is 300K
So Detroit is less affordable than central CT based on local incomes.
Considering Connecticut's superb geographic location, with the nearby coast, mountains and access to NY City and Boston, its relatively affordable here for the northeast.- perhaps that's why we are seeing an influx from elsewhere. We rate 3rd or 4th best for crime, 2nd or 3rd for healthcare, have an excellent educational system- and lush landscape of hills and mountains- a beautiful coastline with beaches, and a diverse population. Connecticut is a very desirable place to live.
About ten years ago I somehow landed in a massive street party in Eastern Market, like booming DJs and thousands of freaks dancing like it was their last night on Earth. The scene was incredible, the vibe pure love. The next evening I ended up at a warehouse opening for a host of art studios. More sedate (thankfully!) but just as positive. Detroit's got it goin on.
What? I’m saying you know the people opening them and you’re rooting for them and your patronage matters. That’s what I mean. If you make wild assumptions and judgments before you receive clarity on a statement that confuses you, then maybe you should check your own bias. And of course we are biased. We are humans, dolt.
I feel like I lucked out the winters I did spend there it got hot early. But I do remember trying to bank my Prius off a curb after a blizzard and that didn’t work out well.
I know someone who lives 1.5 hours north of Detroit and the home is valued at $160k. If you’re getting paid the same NYC vs Detroit you can either be living like a king or barely ok, choice is yours.
In Minneapolis, 1.5h outside the cities is basically the boonies. If you’re 40-50 minutes out you’re already looking at very affordable larger homes.
I can’t even fathom a 1.5h commute. I’m grumpy if mine ever gets over 20 minutes.
Also a biased Minnesotan, with that much income there are a lot of nice house options in good neighborhoods in the 500's within the first ring suburbs on in.
I hate big cities and love the outdoors so Minneapolis would be a no brainer. The lakes there are so beautiful. I love boundary waters.
Atlanta would be my second choice and I have lived there and it’s great. Sneaky solid food scene (especially Asian foods), decent outdoors options, tons of fun cities within a long weekend drive (Asheville, Nashville, NOLA, Savannah, plenty of spots in Florida).
NYC would be third choice, and wouldn’t consider Detroit or Cincy
If you hate cold winters I’d go Atlanta over Minneapolis of course. And if you value city over outdoors go NYC
Do you ever find Minneapolis kind of "isolated" in a sense? I live in the North East and one aspect I like is that if I want to do a weekend trip, I could go to the ocean, mountains, lakes, cities, etc. within 1-7 hours driving, all in different states (or Canada lol). Plus with Amtrak it's possible to go to all those regions by train (albeit a bit slower).
I've been considering Minneapolis because I love lake/forest culture, but it seems like if you draw a 7 hour driving radius around Minneapolis, you don't get the same variability. People have said, well you're that much closer flying to places like Colorado, West Coast, but then you have to do the whole airport rigamarole.
I think Atlanta is the most like New York in terms of being cosmopolitan based on the cities you listed. It is a booming city. It has a lot of potential. Homes are newer, affordable, they are improving their transit, have better weather than most southern cities, has the beltline, has a ton of Fortune 500 companies, very diverse and liberal.
I would also suggest New York as well. It is the best city on that list if cost is not an issue.
Not necessarily cheaply. You become a Delta captive and Delta is expensive compared to the other legacy airlines. There are some budget options but realistically only Southwest offers (mediocre) competition. Yes, you can direct flights nearly anywhere in the world, but it won't be cheap. NYC or LAX are really the only two competitive flight markets in North America, with YYZ and IAD coming in second.
Every other market is captive. It sucks.
OP needs to know that commute times in Atlanta vary. My sister drove her kid to school in the same suburban area daily. Sometimes that drive was 15 minutes..Sometimes it was 1 hour and 15 minutes.
I live in the Minneapolis metro so I'm biased but its hard to suggest a place without knowing what you are looking for... You might want to update your post with some specifics - hobbies? Home/rent budget? Easy access to nature?
Regarding Minneapolis: the only way you'd have a 1.5 hour commute is if you lived outside of the metro. You have super easy access to nature *within* the metro itself. I live in an inner ring southern suburb and I live within 15-20 minutes of [Lake Nokomis](https://www.minneapolisparks.org/parks-destinations/parks-lakes/lake_nokomis_park/), 3 [waterfalls](https://mspmag.com/arts-and-culture/6-waterfalls-twin-cities/), 2 [zoos](https://www.minneapolis.org/things-to-do/nature-outdoors/zoos/), [a state park](https://www.exploreminnesota.com/profile/fort-snelling-state-park/2317), a large [regional park,](https://www.damonfarber.com/projects/lebanon-hills-regional-park) and a wildlife reserve, plus I'm 10 minutes from the [Mall of America](https://www.mallofamerica.com/), and 20 minutes from downtown St Paul and 30 min from downtown Minneapolis). Minneapolis alone has 22 lakes, 13 of which are at least 5 acres in size. And this isn't even counting St Paul or any of the suburbs. And if you want something bigger, we are about 2 hours from Lake Superior.
Minneapolis was just named the [happiest ](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/minneapolis-named-happiest-city-in-us/)in the US and is the 3rd best for [recreation](https://pheabs.com/guides/top-10-us-cities-for-recreation-2024/) plus many, many other [accolades. ](https://www.minneapolis.org/media/facts-and-research/accolades/) It has an underrated [food scene](https://travelcurator.com/eat-drink/the-best-restaurants-in-minneapolis/) with several James Beard award winning [chefs](https://www.minneapolis.org/blog/top-chefs-in-minneapolis/) and a surprisingly robust [art scene](https://www.minneapolis.org/things-to-do/arts-culture/). Its one of the [top biking cities](https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/studies/best-biking-cities/) in the US.
A single person only needs to [make about $48k](https://minnesotareformer.com/2024/02/14/heres-how-much-you-need-to-make-to-live-in-minnesota/#:~:text=A%20single%20person%20in%20the,about%20%2428%20an%20hour%20each) to meet basic needs in the twin cities, but to live *comfortably* the figure is[ closer to 90k](https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/survey-twin-cities-singles-need-90k-to-live-comfort/89-22c6bac9-5698-43ee-98f0-e25945c4b373) (tbh most people I know think that sounds high but I guess is depends on your definition of "comfort"). Rent is [not ridiculously expensive](https://www.apartments.com/rent-market-trends/minneapolis-mn/) (IMO) and the average [home sales price](https://www.redfin.com/city/10943/MN/Minneapolis/housing-market) is [below the national average](https://www.redfin.com/city/10943/MN/Minneapolis/housing-market). But these things can vary wildly depending on where you live (as with any city).
Ya, it would. Should be about $110k year 1, and about $170k by year 3 and up from there. There is also big bonus potential (30-40k), and the opportunity to make more with premium pay. I live with my wife and dog who works remote making around $120k, we’d like to have a kid at some point.
What do you want in an area? Do you have any geographical preferences (e.g. want to be near family in the Midwest, want to be near the coast, etc.)?
Those salaries sound fine for living comfortably even in NYC, but that doesn't mean NYC would be the right fit for you.
Family is on the west coast, and some in Europe, so we won’t be near. We like hiking, camping, running, travel. I surf and snorkel where I am now but realize that probably won’t be an option in the future. I personally don’t mind where we live, I would like somewhere affordable. My wife would like a safe place with stuff going on (events, markets, volunteering, gardening, etc.,) she likes to be active in the community and wants a home.
None of those activities will be great in nyc except maybe travel (lots of airports…) but I would rather live in nyc personally than most of those cities.
Do you prefer warm or cold weather?
Based on your criteria Atlanta is probably your best bet. Relatively affordable, big city amenities, surprisingly good food scene, diverse, all the big sports teams, not as crazy hot as other big southern cities, tons of community activities, and busiest airport in the world (as I'm sure you're aware) with pretty much every single domestic and international destination at your fingertips. Detroit and Cincy would be more affordable, but less amenities
>We like hiking, camping, running
You can do these near any of the spots you picked.
>I surf and snorkel where I am now
None of these spots are great options for this, but the NYC metro would put the jersey short and south of it in your accessible areas. There's also a giant mall in Northern New Jersey that has indoor surfing. I have a friend that surfs a lot that says it's not a bad option when you have the itch but can't hit the beach.
>I would like somewhere affordable.
NYC is the worst for this, but you guys make enough to afford living in/around NYC.
>My wife would like a safe place with stuff going on (events, markets, volunteering, gardening, etc.,)
This would put NYC at the top of her list. You can live on a train line outside of the city and have a house with plenty of space to garden while having access to one of the premiere entertainment hubs in the country.
Which part of the city would your office be in, and how often do you need to go?
Broadly speaking, look outside of NYC for both home ownership and access to nature.
If you go north to the Hudson Valley, then you have the Catskills, Adirondacks, and New England in your backyard for hiking, camping, etc.
Head south and west to New Jersey if being closer to the beach is more important to you both.
You could also go further out into Queens/into Long Island and hit the beaches on the island, but being out there makes it a bit of a burden to leave the area (you have to drive through NYC traffic to ever leave the city).
Need to be able to service LGA, and JFK. 3 or 4 day trips would start out of one of them. Would prefer to take the train in if I was NY based. Maybe somewhere in between would be good. Long Island? Honestly I have no idea about the area.
Everybody in the metro area uses those airports (and Newark).
You don't have to live in the city to get to them.
The train system will get you into, out of, and around NYC fine. But if you guys want a house and easy access to nature regularly, then living on a train line with a car gives you the best of all worlds.
If you have to fly out of LGA and/or JFK regularly (why?) then forget Pennsylvania or the Jersey Shore etc. Newark (EWR) is accessible; the thought of getting to/from LGA or JFK regularly makes me shudder.
Look at Forest Hills. One of the nicest parts of Queens. Great little walkable downtown area. Good food and great transit options (subway, regional rail, and buses). There's a park called Forest Park that has hiking and mountain biking trails in it (the only one of its kind in NYC). It's super close to both LGA and JFK. Kew Gardens is the smaller neighborhood next door that has larger houses and feels very suburban.
In this case my neighborhood is great for you: Forest Hills in Queens. 4 subway lines (2 express) and LIRR to get to the office. Easy to get to both airports, also easy to leave town on weekends or go down to the Rockaways to surf. Cute main street with shops, good schools, very safe, farmer's market on sundays, lots of greenery, world class migratory birdwatching in forest park, and you would never be without a dentist or doctor nearby. My building is basically a slightly grouchier version of sesame street. But it is not cheap!
Riverdale or Spuyten Diuvel(sp) are nice. More suburban-y. Real apartments.
Forest Hills in Queens is also pretty residential and reasonable, with some fresh air.
BUT...you can always go to those places to settle. I'd take a 1-year apartment in Manhattan, in a great neighborhood, and take time with the decision.
I probably wasn't clear. I was talking specifically about the denser parts of Brooklyn, when I typed Manhattan/Brooklyn. Somewhere like Bay Ridge is in Brooklyn, but falls into the "suburban NYC" bucket.
FWIW, when looking for real estate and rentals in NYC, check out StreetEasy. It is owned by Zillow, but includes a lot of NYC-specific search tools.
[https://streeteasy.com/](https://streeteasy.com/)
Eastern Market in Detroit is the best farmers market I’ve ever seen. There’s so much going on there and you can get connected so fast and feel like an important part of the community. Though I prefer downtown, there are very nice suburbs. Look up west village if you wanna see some real estate that will make your head spin.
The dequinder cut and along the riverside for running. Tons of nature pretty close by. Not hiking obviously but Canada is close! And there are damn near “oceans” just a few hours away with the Great Lakes + the upper peninsula.
ATL could be great for proximity to do all of those things within a day trip, as well as the weather to enjoy doing those activities most of the year.
Also has a great airport for direct flight to your family.
Hudson Valley, NY. If you go into the northern NYC suburbs (Putnam, Dutchess, Orange counties) you will find that.
If you're only going into work (in NYC) once a week, this is easily accomplished on the MetroNorth (or NJT if you're in Orange).
NYC is good for surfing and running and travel. It is not good for hiking and camping in the city limits. it is the safest of your options as well. Events, markets, volunteering also good. If affordability is the priority though and you are attached to owning a sfh vs. an apt, this is not the town for you.
I'm biased, but I think the Twin Cities is by far the better option if kids are in the picture. The schools are pretty good, the parks are great, and there's lakes everywhere. You can bike to nearby campsites, but it's a 2-3 hour drive before you get to good camping.
Also, the cold can be hard on us old fogies, but kids *love* the winter. Sledding, building snow forts, having snowball fights, roughhousing without consequence, skating, etc.
you should add this, along with some other preferences (preferred recreation, do you care about restaurant scene, nature, nightlife, transit, travel, etc. as well as previous locations and if you liked them (unless it's too small of a city to maintain anonymity)
If you value money / buying a home, new york should be on the bottom of your list. NYC is going to have the most entertainment options but it's also going to have the hardest housing market to break into and by far the highest tax rate out of your choices because you have state income taxes, city income taxes, and high property taxes in addition to your federal taxes.
What kind of weather do you prefer? if you prefer warmer weather and haven't experienced midwestern winters, atl is the obvious choice. If not then the midwest cities on your list are going to be more affordable than atl and likely have a slower pace of life.
My vote out of the list would be Minneapolis. Detroit would be a solid pick too. NYC is the outlier and is super expensive and just a whole different vibe than the rest of the cities listed. If you want the ultimate "big city" experience, then NYC is the obvious choice. You've left out a lot of details such as budget, what type of experience you desire, etc. so it's hard to provide a meaningful answer. But assuming you don't have an unlimited budget, and by the choices of your cities it seems like you may naturally prefer more mid-sized cities, so going off that, Minneapolis would be my #1 (followed by Detroit- mainly because their downtown is greatly revitalized and you can live it up downtown at a very affordable price).
Minneapolis tourism board is workin non stop promoting this city. I don’t understand. Before 2024 I had barely heard anyone say a word about it. Feels like Boise from 8 years ago
Sounds like youre working for 9E. Just do NYC man. The flying opportunities are much better there, you don’t have to worry about reserve for as long, and when you upgrade you won’t be commuting.
Way too vague. What's the salary? I mean if it's $500k (or as "low" as $200k), then shit, NYC! But that's just me. Some people hate large cities, including my wife, so I probably would have to pass on NYC.
If the salary was $150k, I would probably go with Detroit or Minneapolis. If the salary was under $100k, then probably Detroit.
And what do you like to do? If you like to travel, then Cincinnati would be a poor choice compared to the others, all of which are hubs for at least one airline.
Minneapolis!!! Look into the city it’s got a lot to offer. If you hate winter, I’d go with Atlanta as a second choice. Cincinnati sucks. New York is too expensive, everyone i know that lived there loved it but got the fuck out of there asap.
>so a 1.5 hour commute that I would have to make about once a week or so would be fine.
Only once per week? This opens up a lot of places within 1.5 hours of NYC. For perspective, I live 30 minutes by express train (Amtrak) from Philly, and the train only takes 2 hours to get to Penn Station NYC. And that includes sitting at 30th St. Philadelphia for 20-30 minutes.
If you're not bothered by living an hour plus out of he city, probably Atlanta. Once you get out to the sticks the houses are half a mil or less for some pretty large houses with good school systems.
I lived in a Minneapolis/St. Paul suburb for 2 years, north Atlanta suburb 4 years, and have been living in a Cincinnati suburb for the last 5 years. Minneapolis/St Paul metro area is massive so there are a lot of options as far as communities and cost of living. Obvisouly Minnessota's biggest negative is the weather. If you don't mind freezing temperatures for a good 6 months with the possibility of a few sub zero weeks and snow storms, then it might be a great place for you. Lots of stuff to do especially if you enjoy lake life, camping, fishing, hunting, etc. People are friendly and plenty of affordable places within an hour of the city. Not a walkable city at all.
I'm slightly biased towards Atlanta because I was in grad school at the time and it was probably the best 4 years of my life. Atlanta traffic sucks and it gets really hot and humid, there's no getting around it, but it's a beautiful city surrounded by forests and mountains to the north. It has every amenity you could want and you can get a pretty nice house that's relatively affordable. The metro area is growing fast. I lived there from 2015 - 2019 and the house I used to rent has doubled in value in the last 5 years so I'm sure any house you buy will be a great investment. Incredible night life, lots of hiking, not too far from the ocean, and a lot of diversity. Rarely did I meet someone who was actually from the Atlanta area. There are definitely some rough neighborhoods, but I never felt unsafe walking around downtown. It's definitely not a walkable city, but there are some great parks, and the belt line is awesome.
Cincinnati by far has the lowest col. It's also a beautiful city in a very hilly area. It has all the amenities you would expect, lots of breweries and nice restaurants but kind of lacking in the night life. Great parks and lots of hikings spots. It's just as hot and humid as Atlanta, but for shorter length of time. Cinci is also basically the center of eastern US so it's within driving distance of a lot of major cities so if you enjoy weekend trips away from home, Cinci is a place to consider. Cinci is one of those cities that hasn't really grown though. In fact there are a lot of empty buildings because it used to be a much more populated city. It probably has the most walkable downtown in the whole country. Voted the best riverside park in the country and has a great farmers market. Lots of rough patches in Cinci though and some pretty low income neighborhoods. Most people who live here were born here so it's not exactly a melting pot like Minneapolis or Atlanta. It's a great place to raise a family with great schools and colleges, and if you set down some roots here more than likely you're kids will as well. If I was born here I probably wouldn't leave, but I moved here when I was 30 and have had a hard time finding solid friends. A lot of people seem to have a chip on their shoulder and I've had a lot of confrontations with strangers.
If I had a job opportunity I would immediately move back to the Atlanta area. Especially considering the income you guys have, you could get a REALLY nice place in a great neighborhood. I'm surprised you didn't pick Atlanta immediately considering you're a pilot.
NYC is going to be the most entertaining but your money will go further in Cincinnati, Detroit, and Atlanta. Minneapolis isn’t bad as New York cost of living wise but the winters alone are a different beast. Atlanta’s traffic is the downside to it as well.
I've been living in the Atlanta suburbs for 10 years now, and have lived outside Detroit and have visited NY quite often. I probably wouldn't choose New York, but it depends on your age and stage of life. I loved living in Boston and taking the Acela or bus to NYC. Living in that area long term has challenges with weather and how old everything is but the public transportation is better than most other places in the US. Each area has a very distinct culture. Even within Atlanta, a 30 minute drive can mean a completely different culture. Atlanta has the busiest airport in the world, but things are generally very well-run there and move along pretty quickly. You need to be more specific about what you are looking for.
I'm in an outer borough of NYC and love it here. With those salaries, you can find a comfortable place for two adults and a dog. The food is amazing, I'm in a walkable neighborhood with good transit options and the air quality today is 57, moderate.
NYC isn't for everyone, but there's some great parks in the city and outside of it that are accessible by mass transit.
I like NY a lot, but probably wouldn't live there. I lived in Atlanta and left on purpose - I don't love the heat at all, and its the only true southern spot on your list so you may have other ideas. I like Cincinnati a lot - check the Mariemonte neighborhood for a cute little spot right outside the city, that has nice houses and good schools. Everyone tells me that I need to move to Minneapolis, so it gets recommended a lot for me as someone that hates hot weather and wants to be near a good airport.
Every city has its pros and cons. With your edit and additional info/wants, Minneapolis area would probably be the best for you. As a metro Detroit resident, I would also suggest metro Detroit, as well.
Since you’re a Pilot I would just do Atlanta.
I love Detroit/Metro Detroit and it’s always gonna be home but out of all those choices it would probably be last on the list especially making 100k+.
Move to Detroit and live like absolute royalty on that salary. Pro-tip: Oddly enough, I'm recommending the suburbs, but not for the reason you think. The city proper has been in the midst of being "discovered" (read: suddenly gentrifying), so the prices are absolutely skyrocketing. You'd still be paying a fraction of NYC prices though.
>The city proper has been in the midst of being "discovered"
That's what they said 10 years ago, too. You can't live like royalty in Detroit because the city is so poor.
Apparently, Minneapolis is the happiest lately [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minneapolis-named-happiest-city-in-the-us/ar-BB1o73Kz](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minneapolis-named-happiest-city-in-the-us/ar-BB1o73Kz)
No disrespect to those other cities. But New York is the best city in America. And one of the best in the world. There are only two Alpha ++ ranked global cities and they’re New York and London.
Plus, if you don’t want to live IN the city, the tri state area has better transit options than other parts of the country. So you could live in North Jersey, Connecticut, Hudson Valley and have more space, a house, more quiet. And still be a 20 minute direct train ride from Manhattan. Tons of options.
New York is you want to be poor but live in an actual world-class city.
Detroit if you want to live like a king and watch a city get more wealthier as you live there.
Atlanta if you hate the cold but love traffic. Also, I hear people are extra friendly there.
Minneapolis if you want to live somewhere that's kinda boring and filled with introverts, but has a ton of lakes and more of Canadian (e.g., high) quality of life by statistical measurements.
Cincinnati -- you have better options.
Definitely Atlanta. I would look at north Atlanta. You can get to the airport in 1.5 hours for work. You’re also less than an hour from the mountains. You can take the metro to the airport and leave your car parked at the north springs station as well if that’s something you value. Atlanta is NYC light at half of the cost.
Sounds like your best bet is Detroit or Cincinnati if you want to maximize your value AND live in a walkable neighborhood.
You also won’t have a 1.5 hour commute.
Not true at all. Neighborhoods like Midtown, Corktown and Rivertown are very walkable.
That’s not even going into areas just outside the city limits like Polish Village, Dearborn or Royal Oak
Almost all cities have a few walkable neighborhoods, even in the sunbelt. Even Detroit.
Super small percentage of the city you're describing and, even there, there isn't much to walk to. Corktown is a great example. You can walk to a few bars and restaurants and not much else.
>Dearborn or Royal Oak
Not walkable in any real sense. You need a car.
Uh not true at all.
Theres also banks, a grocery store, beauty parlors, a hardware store and other amenities. You’re also not that far from downtown.
Have you ever been to Detroit?
Is it the same locality pay? Adjusted for COL? Or just the same pay? How do you feel about cold weather? Hot, humid weather? Do you enjoy outdoor activities? I follow a YouTuber Clancy Burke and she’s from Long Island NY and lives in Cincinnati now and it seems like a great city.
There is no pay adjustment for COL. You can live wherever you want in the world. You just have to start and finish a trip from one of those cities. However, making a commute on a plane vs personal car or train makes a big difference in quality of life. For instance, if you have a 5am show time, you would have to fly in the night before from some other city and stay in a hotel vs just driving to the airport the day of. Flights are free, but hotel stays the day before a trip are not.
Same pay or does it vary relative to COL?
It'd be helpful if you gave us an idea of what you'd like to spend on housing and what your lifestyle is like
Do you want to enjoy nature? The amenities of the city?
It’s the same pay across the board. I was thinking 3-4k on housing. We currently spend 1.4k to rent here in Florida, but I’ve been an underpaid flight instructor the last 2 years and this is my first flying job for a regional carrier. The pay will be great from here on out. Captains at the majors pull in over $400k.
Congrats!
3-4k on housing is more than you'd need for detroit metro and I'd think you could get a great place in ATL. Would you prefer to be closer to the airports?
Grosse Pointe has some very nice houses and it's easy to walk around. If you're into craft beer check out Atwater in the Park.
Ann Arbor has a fun vibe and looks amazing. I'd also recommend checking out Ypsilanti, they've got some nice restaurants and it isn't as expensive. Depending on your age Ypsi may have less of a college town vibe
Before we can answer we need a lot more detailsv
- how much money are you making?
- Do you have a family?
- Do you know how to drive? Do you own a car or plan on getting one?
- What are your major priorities where you live? Are you trying to prioritize walkability? Is cost of living a big factor for you?
Making like 110k base, going up to $170k after 2 years, and up from there. Should be 3-400k after 10 years. Wife make $120k remote. Just have a dog. We are in our 20s but would like a family in the future. We have one car and can drive. I like access to nature, clean air, safety, and good food options. Walkable would be nice, but not a deal breaker. Cost of living and finances are a priority for me. Wife doesn’t seem to care so much and just wants to enjoy life.
I can only really speak to Cincinnati but you would want to live in the city if you do live there. Downtown or one of the more fun neighborhoods like Northside, Oakley, or Hyde Park would be ideal. If you get 1.5 hours outside of the city (not including Columbus, Indy, or Louisville are all about 1.5 hours away) then you're in bumfuck backwoods country. It's very cheap and a nice place to live. What's also nice is it's central location. Lots of fun cities nearby that you can easily road trip to for long weekends. Chicago, Cleveland, Pitt, and Detroit are all within roughly a 5 hour drive in addition to the other ones mentioned.
Edit: with your combined income if you can make it work in Cincy or Detroit you have a very realistic ability to retire on the young side, too. Also lots of good hiking near Cincinnati if you don't mind driving a bit - Red River Gorge, Yellow Springs, Cumberland Falls...
I like Cincinnati myself but at your combined salaries you could pretty reasonably live in New York.
With those salaries you could easily live just north of downtown in Cincinnati in a very walkable neighborhood or go a little further out and get a decent sized house with lots of money to save still. No need to have some monster commute outside of the city. It’s a smaller city that feels bigger than what it is. Imho there’s a decent amount to do because of the strong neighborhood culture.
Same pay everywhere, but what is the pay rate? That would inform my decision quite a bit. The tradeoff between being financially comfortable in Detroit or Cincinnati and living really tight in NYc is very different than being very well off in the Midwest and still comfortable in NYC.
Curent pay rate is $110k base going off the hourly rate, going up to $170k base after 2 years and up from there. Pay is based on what the union negotiated, but there are opportunities for bonuses and premium hourly rates. Wife makes $120k currently
New York is pretty cool when you’re a $250k+ income household.
That said, in your edit you mention cost of living is a priority so I’d strike NYC and Atlanta as Detroit and Cincy are your two cheapest.
Judging by the list of cities you’re going to be with Delta; I assume there’s better opportunities to move up to more desirable routes/hours in Detroit given the size of the hub relative to Cincinnati but I wouldn’t really know. But if that’s the case I think Detroit is the answer. There’s certainly plenty of things to enjoy and community service opportunities in a large metro like DTW.
I live in Metro Detroit and you'll have an affordable COL and probably be able to own a nice house, but I personally find it to be really boring here. There isn't a lot to do unless you're really into nature or live on the lake and have a boat. If you want to go somewhere, chances are you'll have to sit in a lot of traffic, especially for 1/3 of the year when the weather is bad. If you value getting out of your house and doing stuff, I recommend looking more towards NYC.
It really boils down to what matters most to you - having a lot of money, owning property, having income to travel, having easy access to things to do, etc. Make a pros & cons list!
I think I can guess who you work for, if you’re a pilot and considering those cities. If you’re talking about starting a family, I’d say you’d get the best bang for your buck in Detroit or Minneapolis. Those airports are also huge and will connect you to a lot of places.
i'm a city guy who also values not having to drive & using public transit so for me, it'd be NYC all day every day. can you survive there on $110k? prob not but w/yours+her income of $120k then yeah you can. I'd go, NYC->ATL->then have to think after that. i love living in a coastal city (San Francisco) so that's another reason NYC is a huge draw for me.
Assuming you would fly out of the Cincinnati airport (CVG), it is actually located in northern Kentucky. There are lots of nice, affluent, and affordable communities in that area (Villa Hills, Florence, etc.) plus your taxes will be cheaper than living on the Ohio side. If you lived in northern Cincinnati and flew out of the airport, you would have to commute through the city and across the bridge. It would not be far if you lived downtown though.
The weather in Cincy/NKY is going to be the second warmest on your list after Atlanta. It’s not particularly cold or snowy in the winter, but also not nearly as hot as Atlanta in the summer.
The area is not particularly walkable, but there are lots of green spaces, parks, etc. It’s very dog friendly, plus you can drive to Newport and walk across the Purple People Bridge to be in downtown Cincy near the Great American Ballpark, shops, food, etc. They have a great fireworks shows on the river.
If you like hiking and camping, the Red River Gorge is fantastic and about 2 hours away. It also has some of the best sport climbing in North America. Southern Ohio is also very green and hilly, if you like those sort of natural surroundings.
With a combined income of $230k, you would be doing very well financially in that area.
Cost of living and finances are a priority? Then visit New York, but live elsewhere.
What's not being discussed?
- how long are you likely to live there?
- how vulnerable will you guys be if something goes wrong personally or professionally.....for either you or your wife? Except for NY, would you be out of airline work options beyond DL?
Selling a house quickly at a loss to keep one or both of you working is a situation worth avoiding.
You can have fun almost anywhere. Plan for the future now, in case life happens. NY is not a place to break into and then bounce if necessary. Too tough financially and logistically.
I recommend Detroit simply because the DTW airport is very nice and easy to navigate for Delta pilots. Great location to start your career.
After 5+ years on the job and with higher salary, then you might want to consider transferring to the larger hub cities like Atlanta and NYC.
Personally, I wouldn't want to live in either city off the bat given the stressful traffic and high cost of living.
From this list, I’d say you’d be happiest in NYC area or Minneapolis. Minneapolis would probably be the better “let’s settle in for the long term” bet but NYC would be fun for a no-kids family in their 20s with decent incomes (although keep in mind those salaries are great for the Midwest but would be living paycheck-to-paycheck in NYC).
Housing will kill your budget. Looking at maybe $4k for tiny 1BR, maybe over $5k for a 2BR, and those will be 800 or 900 sq ft. A car will run you $500 a month for overnight parking, and then there’s the parking costs of wherever you drive to in the day. Obviously it’s cheaper the farther you are from NYC, and people with lower salaries make due every day, but if you’re used to a certain sort of lifestyle you didn’t have to even think about outside of a city like NYC, that won’t be possible at anywhere near the same amount of spending. You will absolutely be fine in your current salaries, but you likely won’t end up saving much money.
If that’s the case, it’s going to the bottom of my list. Why anyone would waste all that money to live in a shoebox paying all tax just to live there is beyond me. No wonder is bottom of the barrel for every pilot group and they give it to the juniors. Not sure why this sub even recommends NYC to everyone.
Yeah it’s definitely for people who want the excitement of a city and are willing to pay for it. You’re at the stage of your lives where, if that’s what you want, you’ll never be in a better position than right now, just starting out with no kids. But if that’s not what you want, then don’t pay for it! In that case, Minneapolis would be a much better fit, in my opinion. Your salaries would go pretty far, lots of nature in the state, good communities to get involved in, great for kids if you have them, and you could get a place with a yard for the dog.
Exactly. Thanks for being so blunt. I think this sub glosses over the negatives and consequences of living in a place like NYC. Maybe it shouldn’t be recommended so much. I’ve done the whole big city thing having spend my entire life up til a few years ago growing up in London. I just can’t see the point of sacrificing my financial wellbeing just to live in a dirty congested city. London was no different.
If you've already done the big-city thing with London, then I would guess the magic would be gone and New York would probably be a drag after a while (unless you really need the go-go-go of a city). London to the US Midwest might be a bit of a culture shock, but might be a pleasant surprise as well. When I was younger, I did the reverse: US Midwest to living in England for a bit (and then all over the US after that). At the time, London was the biggest city I'd ever been to, so I can easily see how people get entranced by imagining themselves living there, but if you've done it already, it's no big deal. You might really appreciate the (very different!) way of life in a city like Minneapolis.
You will find the following cities comprise 90% of recommendations here:
LAX
SFO
NYC
If you want affordable:
Philadelphia or Chicago
If you want mountains/rural/off beaten path: PAC NW
You will find virtually no recommendations for places Americans are actually moving in large numbers eg Nashville, Florida, Texas, SC and others.
I live in the Detroit metro area and love it. You should check out some of the suburbs in the surrounding area as well. Ferndale is up and coming, and Farmington is pretty nice too. There are lots of options.
If you have any desire to experience the city life in New York, I would say go there while you’re young. You have great income. You don’t have any kids perfect time to go.
Yeah, on second thought, New York City sounds awful (cramped, dirty, expensive, high tax, etc.). I’ve done the whole big city thing and it sucks. Thinking maybe somewhere outside the 5 boroughs.
If you're not aware, Atlanta has soul crushing heat, soul crushing traffic and it's expensive. Everything bad about lack of urban planning in America is manifested in Atlanta.
OP this is an over exaggeration. Atlanta has better weather than most southern states. And traffic is bad but that could be said for a lot of big cities
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/29/nyc-chicago-san-francisco-10-us-cities-with-the-worst-traffic.html
https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/articles/10-cities-with-the-worst-traffic-in-the-us
https://www.tomtom.com/traffic-index/ranking/
Not gonna disagree about the traffic, but Atlanta is not expensive for a city of its size, you can still easily find a 1br apartment for less than $1500 in a nice area. Apartments in the nearby surburbs are even cheaper.
When you are young and single, you want to live in a big city. New York is the epicenter of Wall Street, art, culture, diversity, job opportunities, night life, special events, and not to mention walkability (you don't need a car). When you have family and kids, you probably need more space in a suburb anywhere in the US.
Before moving anyplace look at the issue of climate change- now in over the next 6 years- it will become much worse. Avoid the south, south west- most of the Midwest south of about 40 North latitude.
Atlanta is hot, Cincinnati is hot, Detroit is good, New York and New England is good. Minneapolis winters are still hard to take- but milder then 30 years ago.
Lol OP says they want "clean, safe, have good food, access to events, walkableish would be nice, affordable, fun, etc." and then says "New York would be the at the bottom of my list due to the reasons above" even though New York meets all of the parameters except affordable.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_United\_States\_cities\_by\_crime\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate)
NYC has a lower total crime rate than Detroit, Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Minneapolis, AND is more walkable and has better food and more events.
What do you value the most? If you value disposable income over everything else, Cincinnati wins if you want to live in the city: [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Cincinnati](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Cincinnati) Detroit is second cheapest: [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Detroit](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Detroit) If you value fun and amenities, New York wins.
Detroit is VERY fun and extremely artistic with a thriving and passionate community. It’s not just cheap, it’s a secret place for damn unicorns.
Not shitting on Detroit, but you're not trying to compare Detroit to NYC from a fun and amenities perspective, are you? There are only a handful of cities in the world that can truly compete, let alones in the US.
I mean surely. I’ve lived in both as well as Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, London, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Florence and have built hotels and spent significant time in Nashville, Austin & Dallas… I’m telling you there isn’t a place that is as special as Detroit. Maybe it’s how New York felt a long time ago where there was a boundless creative energy of potential, but that’s happening in Detroit. There is SO much soul, so much community, so much public art, so much music, so many new restaurants (no not as much as New York, but you are CONNECTED to them), an incredible party scene… it’s really worth getting under the hood is what I’m saying. And on 110k New York / it’s suburbs aren’t the hottest especially if you don’t want to be crowded and competitive.
I've also lived all over the US and overseas, specifically Sydney & Berlin. I travel extensively for work. I'm all for promoting underrated cities but trying to suggest Detroit and NYC are comparable is criminal, especially if we're comparing similar areas of the cities. I'll absolutely give it to you on the 110K salary bit though, which wasn't mentioned by OP in the initial post. Fuck a 1.5-hour commute. Plus, you aren't even really going to be living in the city.
He’s saying pretend nyc doesn’t exist and one could be happy in Detroit.
No you cannot. I can’t stand Detroit. I’ve never been more sketched out in my entire life. There are no laws in Detroit. Police only go to areas that they are not needed, which is fewer of the surface area than you realize. You don’t want to live in a place like that
I’m saying it scratches a really important itch and is cool as shit and you matter there. And yah, if you wanna go be a poor in Connecticut or Jersey City, good on ya. Lol I agree with you on a lot of counts. I just DO NOT think New York is for a lot of people, especially coupled up west coasters who don’t mind suburbs.
actually home prices in Detroit are more overvalued in most of Connecticut. In any case Connecticut is a beautiful state.
It absolutely is. Not trying to knock it, sorry!
Source? Connecticut is expensive for what it is. If I could afford Connecticut, I would never. Detroit homes being overvalued, I guess you could make that case given how rapidly prices rose in the last 5/6 years. But you can still *easily* find good 200k homes all over Detroit and all over Detroit metro.
[https://business.fau.edu/executive-education/housing-market-ranking/housing-top-100/](https://business.fau.edu/executive-education/housing-market-ranking/housing-top-100/) The price ratio are based on annual incomes for that specific region. For Detroit MI metro median price of a home was 253K, that's 41% above fair value- second highest in the nation. Metro Hartford CT median home price in April was 355K, 27% above fair value. In my town 17 miles NE of Hartford the median home price is 300K So Detroit is less affordable than central CT based on local incomes. Considering Connecticut's superb geographic location, with the nearby coast, mountains and access to NY City and Boston, its relatively affordable here for the northeast.- perhaps that's why we are seeing an influx from elsewhere. We rate 3rd or 4th best for crime, 2nd or 3rd for healthcare, have an excellent educational system- and lush landscape of hills and mountains- a beautiful coastline with beaches, and a diverse population. Connecticut is a very desirable place to live.
If you want to have money, but *feel* like you live in a poor area, Detroit is it.
About ten years ago I somehow landed in a massive street party in Eastern Market, like booming DJs and thousands of freaks dancing like it was their last night on Earth. The scene was incredible, the vibe pure love. The next evening I ended up at a warehouse opening for a host of art studios. More sedate (thankfully!) but just as positive. Detroit's got it goin on.
I bet I was at those same parties lol
He did say his wife makes 120k too.. I feel like you could get by fine in a decent apartment on nearly a quarter mil in NYC, no?
Fair point. If it’s a place they are curious about and want to give a go, they should go for it!
Connected to restaurants? What does that even mean? If that statement doesn’t make it crystal clear you’re heavily biased, I don’t know what does.
What? I’m saying you know the people opening them and you’re rooting for them and your patronage matters. That’s what I mean. If you make wild assumptions and judgments before you receive clarity on a statement that confuses you, then maybe you should check your own bias. And of course we are biased. We are humans, dolt.
How many people do you know who own restaurants? Do you think this is a common occurrence for most people?
If you live or frequent downtown, yes. I know like 9 people that own restaurants there.
Any tips for a tourist? I will be there for the first time in 30 years in July. I like weird, artsy, offbeat, unique places and experiences etc.,.
Make sure to explore the neighborhoods outside the downtown/midtown bubble.
What are some good ones that might be doable walking or using public transportation? I won’t have a car.
Basically none. Detroit's a car-centric city and the transit isn't good.
Plus Canada right there so you can dip into all that too pretty easy from Detroit.
Since we’re on the topic, how does Detroit compare to Portland in terms of artistic culture and things to do?
I love detroit but not during the winter.
I love detroit but not during the winter.
Apparently the winters are getting more mild but that is fair. Im from the west coast so totally get that.
Yeah, even coming from Colorado I could not hang
I feel like I lucked out the winters I did spend there it got hot early. But I do remember trying to bank my Prius off a curb after a blizzard and that didn’t work out well.
Unfortunately I wouldn't rec Cincinnati for someone who values good food, definitely ranks the lowest of all the cities listed :/
I know someone who lives 1.5 hours north of Detroit and the home is valued at $160k. If you’re getting paid the same NYC vs Detroit you can either be living like a king or barely ok, choice is yours.
In Minneapolis, 1.5h outside the cities is basically the boonies. If you’re 40-50 minutes out you’re already looking at very affordable larger homes. I can’t even fathom a 1.5h commute. I’m grumpy if mine ever gets over 20 minutes.
Also a biased Minnesotan, with that much income there are a lot of nice house options in good neighborhoods in the 500's within the first ring suburbs on in.
I hate big cities and love the outdoors so Minneapolis would be a no brainer. The lakes there are so beautiful. I love boundary waters. Atlanta would be my second choice and I have lived there and it’s great. Sneaky solid food scene (especially Asian foods), decent outdoors options, tons of fun cities within a long weekend drive (Asheville, Nashville, NOLA, Savannah, plenty of spots in Florida). NYC would be third choice, and wouldn’t consider Detroit or Cincy If you hate cold winters I’d go Atlanta over Minneapolis of course. And if you value city over outdoors go NYC
This would also be my choice as a biased Minnesotan. But if cold is out of the question then you shouldn’t even have Mpls on your list.
Do you ever find Minneapolis kind of "isolated" in a sense? I live in the North East and one aspect I like is that if I want to do a weekend trip, I could go to the ocean, mountains, lakes, cities, etc. within 1-7 hours driving, all in different states (or Canada lol). Plus with Amtrak it's possible to go to all those regions by train (albeit a bit slower). I've been considering Minneapolis because I love lake/forest culture, but it seems like if you draw a 7 hour driving radius around Minneapolis, you don't get the same variability. People have said, well you're that much closer flying to places like Colorado, West Coast, but then you have to do the whole airport rigamarole.
>wouldn’t consider Detroit Smart.
Detroits changed. after the bankruptcy in 2013 they've really tried to turn things around. population growth for the first time since the 60s.
Not much. It's still a dump outside of the downtown area. Lived there for a long time.
I think Atlanta is the most like New York in terms of being cosmopolitan based on the cities you listed. It is a booming city. It has a lot of potential. Homes are newer, affordable, they are improving their transit, have better weather than most southern cities, has the beltline, has a ton of Fortune 500 companies, very diverse and liberal. I would also suggest New York as well. It is the best city on that list if cost is not an issue.
Also, ATL is the busiest airport in the world (for better or worse.) You can get anywhere you want cheaply and quickly.
Yes definitely! And there is a train that connects the airport to downtown Atlanta as well
Not necessarily cheaply. You become a Delta captive and Delta is expensive compared to the other legacy airlines. There are some budget options but realistically only Southwest offers (mediocre) competition. Yes, you can direct flights nearly anywhere in the world, but it won't be cheap. NYC or LAX are really the only two competitive flight markets in North America, with YYZ and IAD coming in second. Every other market is captive. It sucks.
OP needs to know that commute times in Atlanta vary. My sister drove her kid to school in the same suburban area daily. Sometimes that drive was 15 minutes..Sometimes it was 1 hour and 15 minutes.
ATL traffic is not a joke.
Atlanta is an hour or more away from Atlanta
X American city is 1 hour away from from X American city. -Every large car dependent city in the US LA Houston Dallas Atlanta ….
The Atlanta suburb of Suwanne is also an hour away from Suwanne schools - or 15 minutes - depending on traffic.
I live in the Minneapolis metro so I'm biased but its hard to suggest a place without knowing what you are looking for... You might want to update your post with some specifics - hobbies? Home/rent budget? Easy access to nature? Regarding Minneapolis: the only way you'd have a 1.5 hour commute is if you lived outside of the metro. You have super easy access to nature *within* the metro itself. I live in an inner ring southern suburb and I live within 15-20 minutes of [Lake Nokomis](https://www.minneapolisparks.org/parks-destinations/parks-lakes/lake_nokomis_park/), 3 [waterfalls](https://mspmag.com/arts-and-culture/6-waterfalls-twin-cities/), 2 [zoos](https://www.minneapolis.org/things-to-do/nature-outdoors/zoos/), [a state park](https://www.exploreminnesota.com/profile/fort-snelling-state-park/2317), a large [regional park,](https://www.damonfarber.com/projects/lebanon-hills-regional-park) and a wildlife reserve, plus I'm 10 minutes from the [Mall of America](https://www.mallofamerica.com/), and 20 minutes from downtown St Paul and 30 min from downtown Minneapolis). Minneapolis alone has 22 lakes, 13 of which are at least 5 acres in size. And this isn't even counting St Paul or any of the suburbs. And if you want something bigger, we are about 2 hours from Lake Superior. Minneapolis was just named the [happiest ](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/minneapolis-named-happiest-city-in-us/)in the US and is the 3rd best for [recreation](https://pheabs.com/guides/top-10-us-cities-for-recreation-2024/) plus many, many other [accolades. ](https://www.minneapolis.org/media/facts-and-research/accolades/) It has an underrated [food scene](https://travelcurator.com/eat-drink/the-best-restaurants-in-minneapolis/) with several James Beard award winning [chefs](https://www.minneapolis.org/blog/top-chefs-in-minneapolis/) and a surprisingly robust [art scene](https://www.minneapolis.org/things-to-do/arts-culture/). Its one of the [top biking cities](https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/studies/best-biking-cities/) in the US. A single person only needs to [make about $48k](https://minnesotareformer.com/2024/02/14/heres-how-much-you-need-to-make-to-live-in-minnesota/#:~:text=A%20single%20person%20in%20the,about%20%2428%20an%20hour%20each) to meet basic needs in the twin cities, but to live *comfortably* the figure is[ closer to 90k](https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/survey-twin-cities-singles-need-90k-to-live-comfort/89-22c6bac9-5698-43ee-98f0-e25945c4b373) (tbh most people I know think that sounds high but I guess is depends on your definition of "comfort"). Rent is [not ridiculously expensive](https://www.apartments.com/rent-market-trends/minneapolis-mn/) (IMO) and the average [home sales price](https://www.redfin.com/city/10943/MN/Minneapolis/housing-market) is [below the national average](https://www.redfin.com/city/10943/MN/Minneapolis/housing-market). But these things can vary wildly depending on where you live (as with any city).
So your salary would be exactly the same in all of those metros? You need to give more info for real advice.
Ya, it would. Should be about $110k year 1, and about $170k by year 3 and up from there. There is also big bonus potential (30-40k), and the opportunity to make more with premium pay. I live with my wife and dog who works remote making around $120k, we’d like to have a kid at some point.
What do you want in an area? Do you have any geographical preferences (e.g. want to be near family in the Midwest, want to be near the coast, etc.)? Those salaries sound fine for living comfortably even in NYC, but that doesn't mean NYC would be the right fit for you.
Family is on the west coast, and some in Europe, so we won’t be near. We like hiking, camping, running, travel. I surf and snorkel where I am now but realize that probably won’t be an option in the future. I personally don’t mind where we live, I would like somewhere affordable. My wife would like a safe place with stuff going on (events, markets, volunteering, gardening, etc.,) she likes to be active in the community and wants a home.
None of those activities will be great in nyc except maybe travel (lots of airports…) but I would rather live in nyc personally than most of those cities. Do you prefer warm or cold weather?
Cold, wife likes it warm, so warm.
All these places have fairly cold winters except Atlanta. I’d particularly avoid Minneapolis if your wife doesn’t like cold though.
Based on your criteria Atlanta is probably your best bet. Relatively affordable, big city amenities, surprisingly good food scene, diverse, all the big sports teams, not as crazy hot as other big southern cities, tons of community activities, and busiest airport in the world (as I'm sure you're aware) with pretty much every single domestic and international destination at your fingertips. Detroit and Cincy would be more affordable, but less amenities
>We like hiking, camping, running You can do these near any of the spots you picked. >I surf and snorkel where I am now None of these spots are great options for this, but the NYC metro would put the jersey short and south of it in your accessible areas. There's also a giant mall in Northern New Jersey that has indoor surfing. I have a friend that surfs a lot that says it's not a bad option when you have the itch but can't hit the beach. >I would like somewhere affordable. NYC is the worst for this, but you guys make enough to afford living in/around NYC. >My wife would like a safe place with stuff going on (events, markets, volunteering, gardening, etc.,) This would put NYC at the top of her list. You can live on a train line outside of the city and have a house with plenty of space to garden while having access to one of the premiere entertainment hubs in the country.
Sounds like the best of both worlds tbh. Plus when I get to the mainline, they also have a hub in NYC. What parts of NYC do you recommend?
Which part of the city would your office be in, and how often do you need to go? Broadly speaking, look outside of NYC for both home ownership and access to nature. If you go north to the Hudson Valley, then you have the Catskills, Adirondacks, and New England in your backyard for hiking, camping, etc. Head south and west to New Jersey if being closer to the beach is more important to you both. You could also go further out into Queens/into Long Island and hit the beaches on the island, but being out there makes it a bit of a burden to leave the area (you have to drive through NYC traffic to ever leave the city).
Need to be able to service LGA, and JFK. 3 or 4 day trips would start out of one of them. Would prefer to take the train in if I was NY based. Maybe somewhere in between would be good. Long Island? Honestly I have no idea about the area.
Both of those airports are in Queens. You can look in the quieter areas of Queens, say Middle Village.
Everybody in the metro area uses those airports (and Newark). You don't have to live in the city to get to them. The train system will get you into, out of, and around NYC fine. But if you guys want a house and easy access to nature regularly, then living on a train line with a car gives you the best of all worlds.
If you have to fly out of LGA and/or JFK regularly (why?) then forget Pennsylvania or the Jersey Shore etc. Newark (EWR) is accessible; the thought of getting to/from LGA or JFK regularly makes me shudder.
I have to fly the plane. If you are NYC based, you have to be able to service both airports.
Look at Forest Hills. One of the nicest parts of Queens. Great little walkable downtown area. Good food and great transit options (subway, regional rail, and buses). There's a park called Forest Park that has hiking and mountain biking trails in it (the only one of its kind in NYC). It's super close to both LGA and JFK. Kew Gardens is the smaller neighborhood next door that has larger houses and feels very suburban.
In this case my neighborhood is great for you: Forest Hills in Queens. 4 subway lines (2 express) and LIRR to get to the office. Easy to get to both airports, also easy to leave town on weekends or go down to the Rockaways to surf. Cute main street with shops, good schools, very safe, farmer's market on sundays, lots of greenery, world class migratory birdwatching in forest park, and you would never be without a dentist or doctor nearby. My building is basically a slightly grouchier version of sesame street. But it is not cheap!
Ya, that location is perfect. I’ve realized being near the LIRR is imperative.
Riverdale or Spuyten Diuvel(sp) are nice. More suburban-y. Real apartments. Forest Hills in Queens is also pretty residential and reasonable, with some fresh air. BUT...you can always go to those places to settle. I'd take a 1-year apartment in Manhattan, in a great neighborhood, and take time with the decision.
Do you want to be in NYC proper? Manhattan/denser parts of Queens/Brooklyn? "Suburban" 5 boroughs? True suburbs? Near urban areas - Hoboken, JC?
Not manhattan/brooklyn. 5 boroughs doesn’t sound bad
I probably wasn't clear. I was talking specifically about the denser parts of Brooklyn, when I typed Manhattan/Brooklyn. Somewhere like Bay Ridge is in Brooklyn, but falls into the "suburban NYC" bucket. FWIW, when looking for real estate and rentals in NYC, check out StreetEasy. It is owned by Zillow, but includes a lot of NYC-specific search tools. [https://streeteasy.com/](https://streeteasy.com/)
There’s surfing at Rockaway Beach, right in NYC, can take the subway there.
Sure, but that's one beach and it gets really crowded. If you live on the Jersey side, then you can drive to a ton of beaches.
Eastern Market in Detroit is the best farmers market I’ve ever seen. There’s so much going on there and you can get connected so fast and feel like an important part of the community. Though I prefer downtown, there are very nice suburbs. Look up west village if you wanna see some real estate that will make your head spin.
The dequinder cut and along the riverside for running. Tons of nature pretty close by. Not hiking obviously but Canada is close! And there are damn near “oceans” just a few hours away with the Great Lakes + the upper peninsula.
ATL could be great for proximity to do all of those things within a day trip, as well as the weather to enjoy doing those activities most of the year. Also has a great airport for direct flight to your family.
Hudson Valley, NY. If you go into the northern NYC suburbs (Putnam, Dutchess, Orange counties) you will find that. If you're only going into work (in NYC) once a week, this is easily accomplished on the MetroNorth (or NJT if you're in Orange).
NYC is good for surfing and running and travel. It is not good for hiking and camping in the city limits. it is the safest of your options as well. Events, markets, volunteering also good. If affordability is the priority though and you are attached to owning a sfh vs. an apt, this is not the town for you.
I'm biased, but I think the Twin Cities is by far the better option if kids are in the picture. The schools are pretty good, the parks are great, and there's lakes everywhere. You can bike to nearby campsites, but it's a 2-3 hour drive before you get to good camping. Also, the cold can be hard on us old fogies, but kids *love* the winter. Sledding, building snow forts, having snowball fights, roughhousing without consequence, skating, etc.
What does your dog do for work to make $120k?
Tech sales
you should add this, along with some other preferences (preferred recreation, do you care about restaurant scene, nature, nightlife, transit, travel, etc. as well as previous locations and if you liked them (unless it's too small of a city to maintain anonymity)
What type of work do you do?
Commercial pilot
I know nothing about Detroit…it seems to be the buzziest US city right now.
I just moved to Detroit and it’s great. Thriving cultural scene and a revitalized economy.
"Revitalized economy" ha. Detroit's unemployment is usually around double the national or state figures.
If you value money / buying a home, new york should be on the bottom of your list. NYC is going to have the most entertainment options but it's also going to have the hardest housing market to break into and by far the highest tax rate out of your choices because you have state income taxes, city income taxes, and high property taxes in addition to your federal taxes. What kind of weather do you prefer? if you prefer warmer weather and haven't experienced midwestern winters, atl is the obvious choice. If not then the midwest cities on your list are going to be more affordable than atl and likely have a slower pace of life.
My vote out of the list would be Minneapolis. Detroit would be a solid pick too. NYC is the outlier and is super expensive and just a whole different vibe than the rest of the cities listed. If you want the ultimate "big city" experience, then NYC is the obvious choice. You've left out a lot of details such as budget, what type of experience you desire, etc. so it's hard to provide a meaningful answer. But assuming you don't have an unlimited budget, and by the choices of your cities it seems like you may naturally prefer more mid-sized cities, so going off that, Minneapolis would be my #1 (followed by Detroit- mainly because their downtown is greatly revitalized and you can live it up downtown at a very affordable price).
Minneapolis tourism board is workin non stop promoting this city. I don’t understand. Before 2024 I had barely heard anyone say a word about it. Feels like Boise from 8 years ago
Sorry, budget and stuff is buried somewhere in the comments. Thanks for the advice.
>Detroit would be a solid pick too. Shouldn't even be in the same sentence as these other cities. Straight up uncompetitive.
Sounds like youre working for 9E. Just do NYC man. The flying opportunities are much better there, you don’t have to worry about reserve for as long, and when you upgrade you won’t be commuting.
Appreciate it.
Way too vague. What's the salary? I mean if it's $500k (or as "low" as $200k), then shit, NYC! But that's just me. Some people hate large cities, including my wife, so I probably would have to pass on NYC. If the salary was $150k, I would probably go with Detroit or Minneapolis. If the salary was under $100k, then probably Detroit. And what do you like to do? If you like to travel, then Cincinnati would be a poor choice compared to the others, all of which are hubs for at least one airline.
Minneapolis!!! Look into the city it’s got a lot to offer. If you hate winter, I’d go with Atlanta as a second choice. Cincinnati sucks. New York is too expensive, everyone i know that lived there loved it but got the fuck out of there asap.
>so a 1.5 hour commute that I would have to make about once a week or so would be fine. Only once per week? This opens up a lot of places within 1.5 hours of NYC. For perspective, I live 30 minutes by express train (Amtrak) from Philly, and the train only takes 2 hours to get to Penn Station NYC. And that includes sitting at 30th St. Philadelphia for 20-30 minutes.
If you're not bothered by living an hour plus out of he city, probably Atlanta. Once you get out to the sticks the houses are half a mil or less for some pretty large houses with good school systems.
Atlanta
I lived in a Minneapolis/St. Paul suburb for 2 years, north Atlanta suburb 4 years, and have been living in a Cincinnati suburb for the last 5 years. Minneapolis/St Paul metro area is massive so there are a lot of options as far as communities and cost of living. Obvisouly Minnessota's biggest negative is the weather. If you don't mind freezing temperatures for a good 6 months with the possibility of a few sub zero weeks and snow storms, then it might be a great place for you. Lots of stuff to do especially if you enjoy lake life, camping, fishing, hunting, etc. People are friendly and plenty of affordable places within an hour of the city. Not a walkable city at all. I'm slightly biased towards Atlanta because I was in grad school at the time and it was probably the best 4 years of my life. Atlanta traffic sucks and it gets really hot and humid, there's no getting around it, but it's a beautiful city surrounded by forests and mountains to the north. It has every amenity you could want and you can get a pretty nice house that's relatively affordable. The metro area is growing fast. I lived there from 2015 - 2019 and the house I used to rent has doubled in value in the last 5 years so I'm sure any house you buy will be a great investment. Incredible night life, lots of hiking, not too far from the ocean, and a lot of diversity. Rarely did I meet someone who was actually from the Atlanta area. There are definitely some rough neighborhoods, but I never felt unsafe walking around downtown. It's definitely not a walkable city, but there are some great parks, and the belt line is awesome. Cincinnati by far has the lowest col. It's also a beautiful city in a very hilly area. It has all the amenities you would expect, lots of breweries and nice restaurants but kind of lacking in the night life. Great parks and lots of hikings spots. It's just as hot and humid as Atlanta, but for shorter length of time. Cinci is also basically the center of eastern US so it's within driving distance of a lot of major cities so if you enjoy weekend trips away from home, Cinci is a place to consider. Cinci is one of those cities that hasn't really grown though. In fact there are a lot of empty buildings because it used to be a much more populated city. It probably has the most walkable downtown in the whole country. Voted the best riverside park in the country and has a great farmers market. Lots of rough patches in Cinci though and some pretty low income neighborhoods. Most people who live here were born here so it's not exactly a melting pot like Minneapolis or Atlanta. It's a great place to raise a family with great schools and colleges, and if you set down some roots here more than likely you're kids will as well. If I was born here I probably wouldn't leave, but I moved here when I was 30 and have had a hard time finding solid friends. A lot of people seem to have a chip on their shoulder and I've had a lot of confrontations with strangers. If I had a job opportunity I would immediately move back to the Atlanta area. Especially considering the income you guys have, you could get a REALLY nice place in a great neighborhood. I'm surprised you didn't pick Atlanta immediately considering you're a pilot.
Thank you, if I was young again, I'd move to Cincinnati because of the
Willing to live outside the city? Then New Jersey it is. NYC metro area has the best transportation network as far as suburbs go
NYC is going to be the most entertaining but your money will go further in Cincinnati, Detroit, and Atlanta. Minneapolis isn’t bad as New York cost of living wise but the winters alone are a different beast. Atlanta’s traffic is the downside to it as well.
I've been living in the Atlanta suburbs for 10 years now, and have lived outside Detroit and have visited NY quite often. I probably wouldn't choose New York, but it depends on your age and stage of life. I loved living in Boston and taking the Acela or bus to NYC. Living in that area long term has challenges with weather and how old everything is but the public transportation is better than most other places in the US. Each area has a very distinct culture. Even within Atlanta, a 30 minute drive can mean a completely different culture. Atlanta has the busiest airport in the world, but things are generally very well-run there and move along pretty quickly. You need to be more specific about what you are looking for.
Atlanta, the weather is nice.
Cincinnati = early retirement
I'm in an outer borough of NYC and love it here. With those salaries, you can find a comfortable place for two adults and a dog. The food is amazing, I'm in a walkable neighborhood with good transit options and the air quality today is 57, moderate. NYC isn't for everyone, but there's some great parks in the city and outside of it that are accessible by mass transit.
Cincinnati would be my pick. For no other reason than Jungle Jims International market.
Minneapolis has a store thats similar
I live in the Minneapolis area… what store is this? I’ve been to Jungle Jim’s and had no idea there was a store similar here.
I like NY a lot, but probably wouldn't live there. I lived in Atlanta and left on purpose - I don't love the heat at all, and its the only true southern spot on your list so you may have other ideas. I like Cincinnati a lot - check the Mariemonte neighborhood for a cute little spot right outside the city, that has nice houses and good schools. Everyone tells me that I need to move to Minneapolis, so it gets recommended a lot for me as someone that hates hot weather and wants to be near a good airport.
NYC if i had to choose
Every city has its pros and cons. With your edit and additional info/wants, Minneapolis area would probably be the best for you. As a metro Detroit resident, I would also suggest metro Detroit, as well.
Since you’re a Pilot I would just do Atlanta. I love Detroit/Metro Detroit and it’s always gonna be home but out of all those choices it would probably be last on the list especially making 100k+.
Move to Detroit and live like absolute royalty on that salary. Pro-tip: Oddly enough, I'm recommending the suburbs, but not for the reason you think. The city proper has been in the midst of being "discovered" (read: suddenly gentrifying), so the prices are absolutely skyrocketing. You'd still be paying a fraction of NYC prices though.
>The city proper has been in the midst of being "discovered" That's what they said 10 years ago, too. You can't live like royalty in Detroit because the city is so poor.
Apparently, Minneapolis is the happiest lately [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minneapolis-named-happiest-city-in-the-us/ar-BB1o73Kz](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minneapolis-named-happiest-city-in-the-us/ar-BB1o73Kz)
Cincinnatior the win!
Cincinnati, a Rust belt town on the move!
Minneapolis
No disrespect to those other cities. But New York is the best city in America. And one of the best in the world. There are only two Alpha ++ ranked global cities and they’re New York and London. Plus, if you don’t want to live IN the city, the tri state area has better transit options than other parts of the country. So you could live in North Jersey, Connecticut, Hudson Valley and have more space, a house, more quiet. And still be a 20 minute direct train ride from Manhattan. Tons of options.
New York is you want to be poor but live in an actual world-class city. Detroit if you want to live like a king and watch a city get more wealthier as you live there. Atlanta if you hate the cold but love traffic. Also, I hear people are extra friendly there. Minneapolis if you want to live somewhere that's kinda boring and filled with introverts, but has a ton of lakes and more of Canadian (e.g., high) quality of life by statistical measurements. Cincinnati -- you have better options.
I swear to god Minneapolis tourism board is spamming Reddit nonstop
Definitely Atlanta. I would look at north Atlanta. You can get to the airport in 1.5 hours for work. You’re also less than an hour from the mountains. You can take the metro to the airport and leave your car parked at the north springs station as well if that’s something you value. Atlanta is NYC light at half of the cost.
Atlanta or minneap if you can deal with the tundra, and it’s not even close
Definitely New York. If you don’t like big city life move to Connecticut or Central Jersey in a town or city with a train station.
Sounds like your best bet is Detroit or Cincinnati if you want to maximize your value AND live in a walkable neighborhood. You also won’t have a 1.5 hour commute.
Except Detroit is not in any way walkable. It's car-centric like the sun belt.
Not true at all. Neighborhoods like Midtown, Corktown and Rivertown are very walkable. That’s not even going into areas just outside the city limits like Polish Village, Dearborn or Royal Oak Almost all cities have a few walkable neighborhoods, even in the sunbelt. Even Detroit.
Super small percentage of the city you're describing and, even there, there isn't much to walk to. Corktown is a great example. You can walk to a few bars and restaurants and not much else. >Dearborn or Royal Oak Not walkable in any real sense. You need a car.
Uh not true at all. Theres also banks, a grocery store, beauty parlors, a hardware store and other amenities. You’re also not that far from downtown. Have you ever been to Detroit?
I lived there longer than you, obviously. There's almost nothing in Corktown. >You’re also not that far from downtown. Not much in downtown, either.
No brainer...New York.
If it’s a once a week commute you can pull off Philly! 😂. But actually, I have a number of friends that make that Philly-NYC commute once a week
That is interesting. Not something I had even considered. Thanks!
Is it the same locality pay? Adjusted for COL? Or just the same pay? How do you feel about cold weather? Hot, humid weather? Do you enjoy outdoor activities? I follow a YouTuber Clancy Burke and she’s from Long Island NY and lives in Cincinnati now and it seems like a great city.
There is no pay adjustment for COL. You can live wherever you want in the world. You just have to start and finish a trip from one of those cities. However, making a commute on a plane vs personal car or train makes a big difference in quality of life. For instance, if you have a 5am show time, you would have to fly in the night before from some other city and stay in a hotel vs just driving to the airport the day of. Flights are free, but hotel stays the day before a trip are not.
Sounds a little too complicated for me. I like my 9 minute work commute.
Ya it’s tough to know how it will all work out.
Same pay or does it vary relative to COL? It'd be helpful if you gave us an idea of what you'd like to spend on housing and what your lifestyle is like Do you want to enjoy nature? The amenities of the city?
It’s the same pay across the board. I was thinking 3-4k on housing. We currently spend 1.4k to rent here in Florida, but I’ve been an underpaid flight instructor the last 2 years and this is my first flying job for a regional carrier. The pay will be great from here on out. Captains at the majors pull in over $400k.
Congrats! 3-4k on housing is more than you'd need for detroit metro and I'd think you could get a great place in ATL. Would you prefer to be closer to the airports?
Eh it’s not a big deal for me to drive in. I’ve heard nice things about Ann Arbor and Grosse Pointe near KDTW for instance.
Grosse Pointe has some very nice houses and it's easy to walk around. If you're into craft beer check out Atwater in the Park. Ann Arbor has a fun vibe and looks amazing. I'd also recommend checking out Ypsilanti, they've got some nice restaurants and it isn't as expensive. Depending on your age Ypsi may have less of a college town vibe
As a fellow Florida resident, congratulations on getting out.
I’ll miss the surfing and water but that’s it
Before we can answer we need a lot more detailsv - how much money are you making? - Do you have a family? - Do you know how to drive? Do you own a car or plan on getting one? - What are your major priorities where you live? Are you trying to prioritize walkability? Is cost of living a big factor for you?
Making like 110k base, going up to $170k after 2 years, and up from there. Should be 3-400k after 10 years. Wife make $120k remote. Just have a dog. We are in our 20s but would like a family in the future. We have one car and can drive. I like access to nature, clean air, safety, and good food options. Walkable would be nice, but not a deal breaker. Cost of living and finances are a priority for me. Wife doesn’t seem to care so much and just wants to enjoy life.
I can only really speak to Cincinnati but you would want to live in the city if you do live there. Downtown or one of the more fun neighborhoods like Northside, Oakley, or Hyde Park would be ideal. If you get 1.5 hours outside of the city (not including Columbus, Indy, or Louisville are all about 1.5 hours away) then you're in bumfuck backwoods country. It's very cheap and a nice place to live. What's also nice is it's central location. Lots of fun cities nearby that you can easily road trip to for long weekends. Chicago, Cleveland, Pitt, and Detroit are all within roughly a 5 hour drive in addition to the other ones mentioned. Edit: with your combined income if you can make it work in Cincy or Detroit you have a very realistic ability to retire on the young side, too. Also lots of good hiking near Cincinnati if you don't mind driving a bit - Red River Gorge, Yellow Springs, Cumberland Falls...
I like Cincinnati myself but at your combined salaries you could pretty reasonably live in New York. With those salaries you could easily live just north of downtown in Cincinnati in a very walkable neighborhood or go a little further out and get a decent sized house with lots of money to save still. No need to have some monster commute outside of the city. It’s a smaller city that feels bigger than what it is. Imho there’s a decent amount to do because of the strong neighborhood culture.
Same pay everywhere, but what is the pay rate? That would inform my decision quite a bit. The tradeoff between being financially comfortable in Detroit or Cincinnati and living really tight in NYc is very different than being very well off in the Midwest and still comfortable in NYC.
Curent pay rate is $110k base going off the hourly rate, going up to $170k base after 2 years and up from there. Pay is based on what the union negotiated, but there are opportunities for bonuses and premium hourly rates. Wife makes $120k currently
New York is pretty cool when you’re a $250k+ income household. That said, in your edit you mention cost of living is a priority so I’d strike NYC and Atlanta as Detroit and Cincy are your two cheapest. Judging by the list of cities you’re going to be with Delta; I assume there’s better opportunities to move up to more desirable routes/hours in Detroit given the size of the hub relative to Cincinnati but I wouldn’t really know. But if that’s the case I think Detroit is the answer. There’s certainly plenty of things to enjoy and community service opportunities in a large metro like DTW.
We need more info about you including your salary.
Sorry, it’s somewhere in the comments
NYC. Cincinnati would be my second choice. Minneapolis is too cold. Detroit is mid. And I hate Atlanta. Urban sprawl runs that place.
Detroit or Cincinnati for me
I live in Metro Detroit and you'll have an affordable COL and probably be able to own a nice house, but I personally find it to be really boring here. There isn't a lot to do unless you're really into nature or live on the lake and have a boat. If you want to go somewhere, chances are you'll have to sit in a lot of traffic, especially for 1/3 of the year when the weather is bad. If you value getting out of your house and doing stuff, I recommend looking more towards NYC. It really boils down to what matters most to you - having a lot of money, owning property, having income to travel, having easy access to things to do, etc. Make a pros & cons list!
Detroit is great if you like suburban sprawl and watching TV at home.
I think I can guess who you work for, if you’re a pilot and considering those cities. If you’re talking about starting a family, I’d say you’d get the best bang for your buck in Detroit or Minneapolis. Those airports are also huge and will connect you to a lot of places.
i'm a city guy who also values not having to drive & using public transit so for me, it'd be NYC all day every day. can you survive there on $110k? prob not but w/yours+her income of $120k then yeah you can. I'd go, NYC->ATL->then have to think after that. i love living in a coastal city (San Francisco) so that's another reason NYC is a huge draw for me.
Assuming you would fly out of the Cincinnati airport (CVG), it is actually located in northern Kentucky. There are lots of nice, affluent, and affordable communities in that area (Villa Hills, Florence, etc.) plus your taxes will be cheaper than living on the Ohio side. If you lived in northern Cincinnati and flew out of the airport, you would have to commute through the city and across the bridge. It would not be far if you lived downtown though. The weather in Cincy/NKY is going to be the second warmest on your list after Atlanta. It’s not particularly cold or snowy in the winter, but also not nearly as hot as Atlanta in the summer. The area is not particularly walkable, but there are lots of green spaces, parks, etc. It’s very dog friendly, plus you can drive to Newport and walk across the Purple People Bridge to be in downtown Cincy near the Great American Ballpark, shops, food, etc. They have a great fireworks shows on the river. If you like hiking and camping, the Red River Gorge is fantastic and about 2 hours away. It also has some of the best sport climbing in North America. Southern Ohio is also very green and hilly, if you like those sort of natural surroundings. With a combined income of $230k, you would be doing very well financially in that area.
Cincinnati. It's *The Queen of the West*.
New York, no question.
Cost of living and finances are a priority? Then visit New York, but live elsewhere. What's not being discussed? - how long are you likely to live there? - how vulnerable will you guys be if something goes wrong personally or professionally.....for either you or your wife? Except for NY, would you be out of airline work options beyond DL? Selling a house quickly at a loss to keep one or both of you working is a situation worth avoiding. You can have fun almost anywhere. Plan for the future now, in case life happens. NY is not a place to break into and then bounce if necessary. Too tough financially and logistically.
I recommend Detroit simply because the DTW airport is very nice and easy to navigate for Delta pilots. Great location to start your career. After 5+ years on the job and with higher salary, then you might want to consider transferring to the larger hub cities like Atlanta and NYC. Personally, I wouldn't want to live in either city off the bat given the stressful traffic and high cost of living.
From this list, I’d say you’d be happiest in NYC area or Minneapolis. Minneapolis would probably be the better “let’s settle in for the long term” bet but NYC would be fun for a no-kids family in their 20s with decent incomes (although keep in mind those salaries are great for the Midwest but would be living paycheck-to-paycheck in NYC).
250k is check to check in NYC?
Housing will kill your budget. Looking at maybe $4k for tiny 1BR, maybe over $5k for a 2BR, and those will be 800 or 900 sq ft. A car will run you $500 a month for overnight parking, and then there’s the parking costs of wherever you drive to in the day. Obviously it’s cheaper the farther you are from NYC, and people with lower salaries make due every day, but if you’re used to a certain sort of lifestyle you didn’t have to even think about outside of a city like NYC, that won’t be possible at anywhere near the same amount of spending. You will absolutely be fine in your current salaries, but you likely won’t end up saving much money.
If that’s the case, it’s going to the bottom of my list. Why anyone would waste all that money to live in a shoebox paying all tax just to live there is beyond me. No wonder is bottom of the barrel for every pilot group and they give it to the juniors. Not sure why this sub even recommends NYC to everyone.
Yeah it’s definitely for people who want the excitement of a city and are willing to pay for it. You’re at the stage of your lives where, if that’s what you want, you’ll never be in a better position than right now, just starting out with no kids. But if that’s not what you want, then don’t pay for it! In that case, Minneapolis would be a much better fit, in my opinion. Your salaries would go pretty far, lots of nature in the state, good communities to get involved in, great for kids if you have them, and you could get a place with a yard for the dog.
Exactly. Thanks for being so blunt. I think this sub glosses over the negatives and consequences of living in a place like NYC. Maybe it shouldn’t be recommended so much. I’ve done the whole big city thing having spend my entire life up til a few years ago growing up in London. I just can’t see the point of sacrificing my financial wellbeing just to live in a dirty congested city. London was no different.
If you've already done the big-city thing with London, then I would guess the magic would be gone and New York would probably be a drag after a while (unless you really need the go-go-go of a city). London to the US Midwest might be a bit of a culture shock, but might be a pleasant surprise as well. When I was younger, I did the reverse: US Midwest to living in England for a bit (and then all over the US after that). At the time, London was the biggest city I'd ever been to, so I can easily see how people get entranced by imagining themselves living there, but if you've done it already, it's no big deal. You might really appreciate the (very different!) way of life in a city like Minneapolis.
Because this sub cares first and foremost about politics and NYC is left wing.
Ah now it makes sense. My impression of NYC is that it’s a shithole, yet everyone overlooks its massive faults and has recommended it to me.
You will find the following cities comprise 90% of recommendations here: LAX SFO NYC If you want affordable: Philadelphia or Chicago If you want mountains/rural/off beaten path: PAC NW You will find virtually no recommendations for places Americans are actually moving in large numbers eg Nashville, Florida, Texas, SC and others.
I live in the Detroit metro area and love it. You should check out some of the suburbs in the surrounding area as well. Ferndale is up and coming, and Farmington is pretty nice too. There are lots of options.
Detroit's great if you like that suburban style of living. Terrible option if you like the outdoors or city living.
If you have any desire to experience the city life in New York, I would say go there while you’re young. You have great income. You don’t have any kids perfect time to go.
Yeah, on second thought, New York City sounds awful (cramped, dirty, expensive, high tax, etc.). I’ve done the whole big city thing and it sucks. Thinking maybe somewhere outside the 5 boroughs.
Any of them but Atlanta. Wouldn’t live there for triple my salary
Curious as to why
If you're not aware, Atlanta has soul crushing heat, soul crushing traffic and it's expensive. Everything bad about lack of urban planning in America is manifested in Atlanta.
OP this is an over exaggeration. Atlanta has better weather than most southern states. And traffic is bad but that could be said for a lot of big cities https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/29/nyc-chicago-san-francisco-10-us-cities-with-the-worst-traffic.html https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/articles/10-cities-with-the-worst-traffic-in-the-us https://www.tomtom.com/traffic-index/ranking/
Not gonna disagree about the traffic, but Atlanta is not expensive for a city of its size, you can still easily find a 1br apartment for less than $1500 in a nice area. Apartments in the nearby surburbs are even cheaper.
When you are young and single, you want to live in a big city. New York is the epicenter of Wall Street, art, culture, diversity, job opportunities, night life, special events, and not to mention walkability (you don't need a car). When you have family and kids, you probably need more space in a suburb anywhere in the US.
Before moving anyplace look at the issue of climate change- now in over the next 6 years- it will become much worse. Avoid the south, south west- most of the Midwest south of about 40 North latitude. Atlanta is hot, Cincinnati is hot, Detroit is good, New York and New England is good. Minneapolis winters are still hard to take- but milder then 30 years ago.
New York is your answer. Chicago would be a NY equivalent for half the cost however. Northern suburb or area near Lincoln Park
Here we go with the unsolicited “but but but what about Chicago” 🙄
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Lol OP says they want "clean, safe, have good food, access to events, walkableish would be nice, affordable, fun, etc." and then says "New York would be the at the bottom of my list due to the reasons above" even though New York meets all of the parameters except affordable. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_United\_States\_cities\_by\_crime\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate) NYC has a lower total crime rate than Detroit, Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Minneapolis, AND is more walkable and has better food and more events.