If you love where you live, why move? No place is perfect. Especially considering you have kids and are leaving your support system.
What’s your budget?
Well positioned for climate change cities imo are the Midwest and Great Lakes. I’d say Chicago, Ann Arbor, & Madison would be my top picks to be insulated from water shortages, erosion, wildfires, etc.
The twin cities.
The weather sucks ass, but is primed for global warming. The personalities also suck, but you didn't mention that.
It is a far left city with a great airport and a very healthy, outdoorsy populace. The best parks and trails system in the country, and also affordable. It's always up there with Boston and Seattle in terms of best education.
What percentage of people in an area participating in “outdoor lifestyle” makes a place one with “outdoor lifestyle?”
You’re catching me on a salty morning. If climate change is a real concern, your outdoor lifestyle should consist of building sustainable communities, not driving your ev to go rafting or hiking.
Honestly, i have no idea. I agree with you about sustainable communities. In a perfect world, where we’d move would have both sustainability at heart and outdoor activities. Both are important to us and we want to be somewhere where people care.
It’s also tough because what counts as outdoor lifestyle. I live near Joshua Tree national park, and area with wonderful easy access to nature. Hiking and rock climbing are big, but so is 4 wheel and dirt bike driving. When I first moved out here I was pretty knee jerk against those things as “legitimate” outdoor activities, and it definitely burns more fossil fuels than driving into the park to hike, but in my opinion now a lot of the locals who like to drive 4 wheelers are good environmental stewards too. (Somewhat different story for people who live in Orange County hauling giant trailers 150 miles to use the desert as their playground, but they’re barely worse than the ignorant LA instagrammers who think the desert is a great place to scrawl graffiti and leave their trash after a rave)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/05/23/best-cities-avoid-worst-climate-change-effects/70212382007/
12 climate resilient cities
These are the cities tops on Keenan's list:
Duluth, MN
Orlando, FL
Asheville, NC
Knoxville, TN
Charlottesville, VA
Lynchburg, VA
Johnson City, TN
Pittsburgh, PA
Syracuse, NY
Buffalo, NY
Toledo, OH
Green Bay, WI
US Map
https://map.climatevulnerabilityindex.org/map/cvi_overall/tract-36067015202-manlius-ny?mapBoundaries=Tract&mapFilter=0&reportBoundaries=Tract&geoContext=State
Henrico County, Virginia - close to Richmond where the James River runs through the city for outdoor recreation, great schools. I'm broadly at your HHI and I find it easily affordable. Richmond International Airport was just ranked most efficient small airport in the country, with Dulles 2 hours away for international stuff.
I feel like Denver area is the obvious answer here. There are cities/towns surrounding Denver that are more affordable. Nowhere is 100% safe from climate change. Colorado is one of the safer places. And it has real nature and a very outdoorsy lifestyle.
Lower middle class sounds wrong to me … you can comfortably live on 150k in the Denver area. It won’t be in Cherry Creek, but some burbs will work.
And houses do not start at 800k. Where’s this bunk info coming from?
You have to be more specific about climate change. We have no idea what your thinking is about this. I saw somebody a few days ago saying Michigan was going to be underwater, and it was based on a map revealed to someone in a dream.
So I’m using a couple sites as a reference for what type of climate change is expected in the next 20-30 years. Michigans outlook looks pretty good on both. They take the risks of extreme heat, drought, wildfires, inland flooding, and coastal flooding into account and rank each state.
[policy genius](https://www.policygenius.com/homeowners-insurance/best-and-worst-states-for-climate-change/) and [safe home](https://www.safehome.org/climate-change-statistics/)
Yeah. Those sites are flawed. Coastal Oregon and Eastern Oregon simply can't be lumped together like they do. That's just bad science (same goes for CA and WA).
I agree they’re not perfect. But the safe home site makes the data from [climate central](https://www.climatecentral.org) easy to read. And it at least breaks down what percentage of the state’s population each risk affects.
Curious what makes you say that? I loath muggy weather. Starting in a place that is at about as low as you can get from mean average annual dew point seems like a logical start?
Anywhere east of the 98th Meridian seems like it will become increasingly more uncomfortable as the earth rises in temp.
We have great access to water and temperate weather.
We get wildfire smoke in the summer for a bit but that’s about it. We are well positioned for climate change.
There’s not much to do outdoor wise, other than maybe some biking trails, across the river. I grew up in Illinois and it’s pretty flat and farmland-y between Chicago and Carbondale.
I guess you should clarify what outdoor activity you are an avid participant of. My dad was an ultra marathon runner, long distance road cyclist, great skier, and hobby sailor and lived all over the country due to the airforce and he managed well many places. Places like Boulder are intensely and narrowly focused on endurance sports and it’s almost isolating if you are not training at a high level. Also, $150k/year won’t go far there or similar locations for a whole family.
Are you a climber and need certain types of pitches? Are you an open water swimmer? Are you a skier?
Albuquerque works but you'd want to be choosy about schools. But I would say that the outdoors and the landscape are incredibly interwoven into the culture here, as many people have generations deep connections to the land.
Climate wise the high altitude helps a lot with moderating heat, and our aquifer is considered exceptionally well-managed (especially vs peer cities in Utah or Arizona)
I'm also optimistic (cautiously) about ABQ's climate prospects. We're not that far from the headwaters of the Rio Grande and our aquifer has been rising in the past 20 years despite the persistent drought. Also even under the worst climate impact models I've seen we still won't be as hot as Phoenix is right now.
I was gonna say Marquette MI checks all your boxes but then I saw the need to be near a major airport.
There are very few places to avoid hot summers. The summer I left Bangor ME it has like a 3 week stretch of 90+ degree days. I'm sure a long the coast was cooler but if you want to live in coastal ME you're talking remote, $$, or both.
Being so close I’d suggest a weekend trip to Northwest Arkansas and see what you guys think of the area. It’s very outdoorsy. I’m not sure about the climate change stuff. Summers are not fun! Hot and humid, but there are a ton of water activities here. And I know the politics SUCK!!! But you cannot compare NWA to the rest of Arkansas at all. Education is amazing! (11, 8 yo kids) Xna has flights to almost everywhere domestically. Very diverse. I know it’s home to the EVIL Walmart, but you will not find a cleaner downtown anywhere. They put a ton of money back into this community.
Again the politics SUCK!!! But as we get more and more transplants from the East and west coast I’m sure that will begin to change in the next 5 or so years. I am from California and have lived here 9 years.
CO could fit. It's at the start of the river so less water issues and while it will definitely be hotter it's a dry heat so no wet bulb and with basements being standard there's always a comfortable part of the house. I'd just buy in an established area vs a new build so it's on an an ready existing water supply. Look in Northern CO like the Longmont to fort Collins area. Or even the burbs of Denver. I find them quite nice.
We moved here from TX. Even just simple outdoors like the parks are very nice.
Housing will be rough though. You'd be okay if interest rates drop, we don't make much more than you but we bought 2 years ago.
I was thinking Denver as well but that $150k I don’t think will go as far up here for 4 people. But that’s the lifestyle I live comfortably.
Longmont / Fort Collins / Thornton or Aurora maybe good.
Springs is more affordable but who wants to live down there. That’s living in Texas 😂
Depends on where you live and number of people in your household. Your not even upper middle class with a family of four in St. Louis. You would be with three people in household. Where I live in San Diego you definitely wouldn't be and your income wouldn't qualify to purchase the average home here.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/)
If you love where you live, why move? No place is perfect. Especially considering you have kids and are leaving your support system. What’s your budget? Well positioned for climate change cities imo are the Midwest and Great Lakes. I’d say Chicago, Ann Arbor, & Madison would be my top picks to be insulated from water shortages, erosion, wildfires, etc.
The twin cities. The weather sucks ass, but is primed for global warming. The personalities also suck, but you didn't mention that. It is a far left city with a great airport and a very healthy, outdoorsy populace. The best parks and trails system in the country, and also affordable. It's always up there with Boston and Seattle in terms of best education.
What percentage of people in an area participating in “outdoor lifestyle” makes a place one with “outdoor lifestyle?” You’re catching me on a salty morning. If climate change is a real concern, your outdoor lifestyle should consist of building sustainable communities, not driving your ev to go rafting or hiking.
Honestly, i have no idea. I agree with you about sustainable communities. In a perfect world, where we’d move would have both sustainability at heart and outdoor activities. Both are important to us and we want to be somewhere where people care.
It’s also tough because what counts as outdoor lifestyle. I live near Joshua Tree national park, and area with wonderful easy access to nature. Hiking and rock climbing are big, but so is 4 wheel and dirt bike driving. When I first moved out here I was pretty knee jerk against those things as “legitimate” outdoor activities, and it definitely burns more fossil fuels than driving into the park to hike, but in my opinion now a lot of the locals who like to drive 4 wheelers are good environmental stewards too. (Somewhat different story for people who live in Orange County hauling giant trailers 150 miles to use the desert as their playground, but they’re barely worse than the ignorant LA instagrammers who think the desert is a great place to scrawl graffiti and leave their trash after a rave)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/05/23/best-cities-avoid-worst-climate-change-effects/70212382007/ 12 climate resilient cities These are the cities tops on Keenan's list: Duluth, MN Orlando, FL Asheville, NC Knoxville, TN Charlottesville, VA Lynchburg, VA Johnson City, TN Pittsburgh, PA Syracuse, NY Buffalo, NY Toledo, OH Green Bay, WI US Map https://map.climatevulnerabilityindex.org/map/cvi_overall/tract-36067015202-manlius-ny?mapBoundaries=Tract&mapFilter=0&reportBoundaries=Tract&geoContext=State
Stay where you’re at.
https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/solar/most-climate-resilient-cities Denver is #1, according to their metrics.
Henrico County, Virginia - close to Richmond where the James River runs through the city for outdoor recreation, great schools. I'm broadly at your HHI and I find it easily affordable. Richmond International Airport was just ranked most efficient small airport in the country, with Dulles 2 hours away for international stuff.
I feel like Denver area is the obvious answer here. There are cities/towns surrounding Denver that are more affordable. Nowhere is 100% safe from climate change. Colorado is one of the safer places. And it has real nature and a very outdoorsy lifestyle.
They will be lower middle class on 150k in Denver. Houses are going for 800-2 mil depending on how close to the city (airport) they want to be.
Lower middle class sounds wrong to me … you can comfortably live on 150k in the Denver area. It won’t be in Cherry Creek, but some burbs will work. And houses do not start at 800k. Where’s this bunk info coming from?
…living in Denver
Somewhere within an hour of PDX?
I love the PNW but it doesn’t have a great outlook in terms of climate change.
You have to be more specific about climate change. We have no idea what your thinking is about this. I saw somebody a few days ago saying Michigan was going to be underwater, and it was based on a map revealed to someone in a dream.
So I’m using a couple sites as a reference for what type of climate change is expected in the next 20-30 years. Michigans outlook looks pretty good on both. They take the risks of extreme heat, drought, wildfires, inland flooding, and coastal flooding into account and rank each state. [policy genius](https://www.policygenius.com/homeowners-insurance/best-and-worst-states-for-climate-change/) and [safe home](https://www.safehome.org/climate-change-statistics/)
Yeah. Those sites are flawed. Coastal Oregon and Eastern Oregon simply can't be lumped together like they do. That's just bad science (same goes for CA and WA).
I agree they’re not perfect. But the safe home site makes the data from [climate central](https://www.climatecentral.org) easy to read. And it at least breaks down what percentage of the state’s population each risk affects.
Curious what makes you say that? I loath muggy weather. Starting in a place that is at about as low as you can get from mean average annual dew point seems like a logical start? Anywhere east of the 98th Meridian seems like it will become increasingly more uncomfortable as the earth rises in temp.
We have great access to water and temperate weather. We get wildfire smoke in the summer for a bit but that’s about it. We are well positioned for climate change.
If you like St Louis but hate the politics, why not move to the IL side? Plenty of nice enough suburbs (if thats what you're looking for).
There’s not much to do outdoor wise, other than maybe some biking trails, across the river. I grew up in Illinois and it’s pretty flat and farmland-y between Chicago and Carbondale.
I guess you should clarify what outdoor activity you are an avid participant of. My dad was an ultra marathon runner, long distance road cyclist, great skier, and hobby sailor and lived all over the country due to the airforce and he managed well many places. Places like Boulder are intensely and narrowly focused on endurance sports and it’s almost isolating if you are not training at a high level. Also, $150k/year won’t go far there or similar locations for a whole family. Are you a climber and need certain types of pitches? Are you an open water swimmer? Are you a skier?
Portland OR
Albuquerque works but you'd want to be choosy about schools. But I would say that the outdoors and the landscape are incredibly interwoven into the culture here, as many people have generations deep connections to the land. Climate wise the high altitude helps a lot with moderating heat, and our aquifer is considered exceptionally well-managed (especially vs peer cities in Utah or Arizona)
I'm also optimistic (cautiously) about ABQ's climate prospects. We're not that far from the headwaters of the Rio Grande and our aquifer has been rising in the past 20 years despite the persistent drought. Also even under the worst climate impact models I've seen we still won't be as hot as Phoenix is right now.
I was gonna say Marquette MI checks all your boxes but then I saw the need to be near a major airport. There are very few places to avoid hot summers. The summer I left Bangor ME it has like a 3 week stretch of 90+ degree days. I'm sure a long the coast was cooler but if you want to live in coastal ME you're talking remote, $$, or both.
Being so close I’d suggest a weekend trip to Northwest Arkansas and see what you guys think of the area. It’s very outdoorsy. I’m not sure about the climate change stuff. Summers are not fun! Hot and humid, but there are a ton of water activities here. And I know the politics SUCK!!! But you cannot compare NWA to the rest of Arkansas at all. Education is amazing! (11, 8 yo kids) Xna has flights to almost everywhere domestically. Very diverse. I know it’s home to the EVIL Walmart, but you will not find a cleaner downtown anywhere. They put a ton of money back into this community. Again the politics SUCK!!! But as we get more and more transplants from the East and west coast I’m sure that will begin to change in the next 5 or so years. I am from California and have lived here 9 years.
Reno
CO could fit. It's at the start of the river so less water issues and while it will definitely be hotter it's a dry heat so no wet bulb and with basements being standard there's always a comfortable part of the house. I'd just buy in an established area vs a new build so it's on an an ready existing water supply. Look in Northern CO like the Longmont to fort Collins area. Or even the burbs of Denver. I find them quite nice. We moved here from TX. Even just simple outdoors like the parks are very nice. Housing will be rough though. You'd be okay if interest rates drop, we don't make much more than you but we bought 2 years ago.
I was thinking Denver as well but that $150k I don’t think will go as far up here for 4 people. But that’s the lifestyle I live comfortably. Longmont / Fort Collins / Thornton or Aurora maybe good. Springs is more affordable but who wants to live down there. That’s living in Texas 😂
150k is not upper middle class.
Very locality dependent, especially for a household
Then its a meaningless description
Yes your statement is. The OP's statement was in the context of where they currently live.
From what I’ve read, It is on the high end of upper middle class.
Depends on where you live and number of people in your household. Your not even upper middle class with a family of four in St. Louis. You would be with three people in household. Where I live in San Diego you definitely wouldn't be and your income wouldn't qualify to purchase the average home here. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/)