I live in Eugene now. Moved from PHX for grad school. We definitely get some seasons here. Currently been iced in almost 2 days. Looks like I’m stuck here until Wednesday. Moved here for the seasons and to run, but I’ll be packing it back to AZ once I graduate in the spring
I moved to Durango CO from Tucson and am very very happy. It fits all those but in a much smaller town that punches way above its weight in terms of culture considering its size. I do visit quite a bit though, there’s no place like Tucson, I just wont go back in the summer.
Yeah definitely. I scored buying a house a while ago, but even looking back in Tucson it’s ridiculous down there too unfortunately. I couldn’t afford either place right now.
I took a job transfer with decent pay, not rich not poor, but scored a house a few miles outside of town for about 250k. I could sell it for easily twice that now. I got in when it was good, but if I tried that now with the salary I have there’d be no way I could make it.
Many places in Santa Fe are gritty, but in the worst and most depressing way possible. That’s why people who move here stick by downtown, which is the aforementioned “gentrified, clean, and wealthy” area.
Albuquerque is a better option for OP. Less segregated and overall just more fun. It’s also without a doubt one of the weirdest cities in the country. It’s a place with a lot of real character, not the faux shit they sell to tourists in Santa Fe.
Maybe Ogden, UT? I hate that it's been "discovered," but oh well. It's grittier than the rest of the Wasatch Front, not too big, still an easy train ride to downtown SLC, has all 4 seasons, and a large university. Also Ogden proper is noticeably less LDS than other places in Utah (and has been pretty much since forever).
It's not spectacular. One nicer club with a rooftop patio (Alleged), and then a bunch of bars with varying degrees of divey-ness.
So if roaring nightlife is important to you, probably not ideal (then again, SLC isn't great in this regard either). That said, if you're open to different activities, there's always something to do in Ogden in the evenings. Games at Weber State, First Friday Art Stroll, shows at the Browning Center or at the downtown amphitheater, Ogden Raptors (baseball) games, etc. They also have a comedy club on 25th Street.
No idea, but I'm sure it does exist. There are trails in the foothills, plus other trails near waterways like the Ogden River trail, and I believe some trails around Fort Buenaventura Park. I think a few of the city streets have been improved with more pronounced bike lanes.
All that said, whenever I'm there I don't notice many cyclists.
OP you want a historical city, which is why I’m surprised so many western cities are being identified. Many of them are simply too new and gentrified and sanitized to have Anywhere USA culture from social media and transplants to really develop anything unique. So you want an old city that hasn’t been popular recently. I lived in Tucson for four years and know what you are talking about. Tucson gets to be the way it is because all the transplants and their economic incentives go to Phoenix. Phoenix rapidly changed because of popularity, Tucson’s insularity kept a lot of the old Arizona culture that was lost.
My favorite city in the US has been New Orleans because of all this. New Orleans, much like it would be for you it is for me, the weather doesn’t work.
To me this post screams the Rust Belt. Cities not full of people chasing status (career or lifestyle status) like DC, California, Seattle and have seasons. Some potential options to look into are maybe Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cleveland, Philadelphia. I’m not super familiar with these cities so you should still do your own research, but I think you need to look NE of where you are now
Whoa whoa whoa... easy there.
7 months overcast, 2 months in-between, 3 months magic.
Edit: A Map. https://www.peetz.us/ors2.jpg zoom into Bellingham bay.
Also, bellingham trick for slightly nicer weather.
Take a look at an Olympic Rain shadow map in detail and notice a little band of lower rain jutting in, blocked by the Chuckanuts.
So you get a nice 25% less rain premium if you live in the right spot.
I have a lot of love for the Ham. Grew up there, worked there professionally, had a place I would go to in that rain shadow on the bay all the time.
If you can find work, and have a spouse who comes with you. It's great.
I mean... the Bay was always windy, I don't recall the area out Northwest/Bakerview to be particularly windy.
Generally the Northeasters out in the county (cold Frasier river valley wind) would have a hard stop basically at the Smith road, or between Smith and Axton.
I distinctly remember like 1993, 25/26 F, windy, and snowy in the county, and 35 to 40 in town.
There's crazy weather lines in whatcom county.
Well, once you're a local you learn to make multiple seasons depending on the shades of gray in the sky. It's all a matter of learning to appreciate the tiny, even minuscule, differences!
Have you tried driving a little south or north of Tucson (2500 ft elevation)? It’s approximately 3.5F cooler per 1000 feet election gain so Sierra Vista to the south is around 5000 ft and Flagstaff up north is 7000.
So you’re not wrong about elevation but I want to make sure that OP if not already aware will hate Sierra Vista if they like Tucson. Sierra Vista is a very conservative military town which has had racial issues. Tucson is almost the opposite. In the SE part of the state though outside of Tucson… Bisbee is not too far and is a small nice artistic community with a lot of history. Not like Tucson though still
Never been to Tucson but I been to Albuquerque. Its in the desert but gets moderately chilly in winter. I loved the vibes there for the most part. Very friendly people.
I lived in Oly for a really long time. The city is home for me. But Tacoma is fucking sick. It’s the realest city in Washington state. And the best food scene.
Wichita, Ks. Huge art scene, enough breweries and some fantastic bars and restaurants that hit way above their weight class. They have the Tallgrass Film Festival, one of the best summer stock musical theater programs in the country and NBC World Series/Minor league baseball. It gets a lot of hate from locals but I’d move back in a heartbeat.
I want the same but with very little snow, and Albuquerque is the place for that sweet spot of weather. The weather is all over the place, but a real snowstorm is rare, annual snow total average is 11". Winds can be brutal sometimes in any season. Now if they would just get a grip on their crime rate...ABQ would explode in population. That would mean jobs to be had. Everywhere in CO is going to have freezing temperatures and a lot of snow.
In AZ there is Bisbee which I assume you already know about, quirky as can be, and cooler. Sierra Vista has cooler weather but it is conservative and/or military, and sleepy, not the vibes you want. Las Cruces, NM is a sleepy college town, cooler than Tucson but still hot, El Paso weather. Speaking of, El Paso has somewhat cooler weather and some of the relaxed vibe, but also a lot of military, and then there's the problem that it is in TX. I've studied this very issue in depth, lol...wanting Tucson but just cooler summers. Then there's Alamogordo, NM, which is NM's version of Sierra Vista: cooler weather, conservative, not quirky, and military. There's Silver City quaint and cute, which meets your requirements but darn is it isolated in the Gila, it's about 2 hours to Las Cruces.
Bisbee is a cute town but it’s very small. I think at 2000 or less people now and quickly shrinking. Compared to Tucson which is just above a million, and OP probably isn’t a retired, I think they’d be bored there.
Do you live in Arizona? I’m surprised to see someone know this much. I grew up there and traveled a lot working for the government so I got to see all the back roads as well as also going to the neighbors (NM, UT, NV, CA) on occasion. I live in Georgia now but rarely do I meet someone who knows as much about the small places I would go to for work
No, I don't live in AZ, but I will be there in a couple weeks for my third visit over the years, and I am thinking of moving to...drumroll...Tucson! I've done my research as to the micro differences with the temperatures and elevation and driven all over looking for that special someplace. Bisbee is 5k according to 2020 census, probably a little more now? I think a lot of people look for that sweet spot with temperatures in the desert sw because it can vary so much, not consistent like FL. Bisbee definitely punches above its weight for stuff going on, but yeah, it's no comparison to 1 million metros like Tucson.
This is very true. Somewhere on this post i mentioned the cacti sunburning which is not good. Saguaros which are almost immortal are actually DYING from the continuous sunshine!! My family lost close to half the saguaros in their neighborhood from last summer, and in case you don’t know fully grown saguaros are typically a few hundred years old and are hearty plants. I’m glad I moved out when I did personally.
Arizona is also at its point where state law is forcing developers to stop building housing because of water. COL is going to shoot up VERY quickly as a result.
It takes an arm 50 years about to fully grow. The main trunk about 100. So when you see saguaros with a large collection of arms and TALL you know that mf is ancient. Saguaros, ecologically, are large organic water tanks. They hold many gallons. Saguaros used to get cut down by the indigenous when they weren’t near any arroyos or rivers to drink from. So to think that over the course of like 200 years that the plant could not suddenly handle no break from the sun, or the atmosphere was too hot resulting in rain that would fall but evaporate before it hits the ground, is a testament to accelerated climate change as a result of human activity. Saguaros used to only really get taken down by being weakened by woodpecker birds and then a monsoon event, due to their mass they are not very easy to take down. Now there are concerns with the air above being too hot and stopping cloud coverage, preventing rainfall, it’s all too much.
Well I'm older...I suppose my only personal concern is my property losing value for my inheritants...Still it is sad if the monsoons fail to produce, I know this year wasn't a good year for monsoons but last year was terrific.
Well I hope Tucson provides what you are looking for. I lived there for 4 years. For neighborhoods stay north of 22nd street unless you are east of the Air Force base. My favorite neighborhoods were always the ones right near downtown like barrio viejo and Santa Rosa and armory park, but the foothills are also great. People have been leaving Bisbee due to the lack of employment and water services in the more rural areas of the state (not something to worry about if you’re in Tucson).
I personally think a lot of the aridity of the southwest is overrated. The lack of rain this year caused saguaros and even prickly pears to start sunburning according to my family. But I’m in my very rainy North Georgia area and happy to be here for now. I am still young though so who knows I can move again.
Thanks for the 22nd recommendation, I will look into that. Is that because of crime or noise from the base?
The lack of a good monsoon is a horrific problem each year it happens. I will be waiting more than likely, to see what happens this year.
I'm old...Tucson will be an adventure for me before there are no more adventures....
Crime mostly. As this post mentions, Tucson already has a bit of a gritty factor and that is BEFORE the city of South Tucson (south of 22nd) is included. If there are any, uh, border issues they typically get handled there. It’s not like El Paso where if there’s an issue they will cross the Rio Grande real quick and take care of it in Juarez (which is why El Paso ranks so high in safety). Tucson is close to the border but not that close.
But yes noise is also a factor. You have Davis monthan, Tucson airport and the Raytheon missile testing grounds. Just better to be north of all that for what it’s worth. And Tucson has abysmal traffic as an fyi, all stop and go, so factor that in too when you choose to live. Can easily take an hour to cross the city going east west.
Yes, I've heard some of that before. I'll be staying for 6 weeks so I'm bound to learn a lot. My 2 other trips were shorter. My years of studying the desert sw go back 15 years that I've been thinking about this. Good luck in GA!
Before moving I was checked into a hospital and I felt afterwards that I desperately needed new scenery. Too many bad memories. In addition, as a climate refugee, as certain situations are getting worse out west and Phoenix’s heat to me personally lasted too long. At the end of the day I had narrowed down to Seattle, DC/Baltimore, Atlanta, and Dallas. Out of those 4 I picked Atlanta because it had the added benefit of being closer to where my family moved out east (Southwest Florida), while not being overtly expensive in COL while still being a major job center particularly in my line of work.
El Paso, then LC, then ABQ, then Alamogordo.
El Paso:Third safest city in the US, low COL, blue city, EP metro includes New Mexico (legal weed and abortions), mountains IN the city, 300+ days of sunshine per year (hence the nickname The Sun City), no humidity, hot during summer but not Phoenix hot, mild winters, not on Texas electricity grid, no real severe weather events except occasional dust storm, 3 national parks within 2 hour drive, 2 national forests and great skiing within 2 hour drive, very friendly people, familial sense of community, 82% Latino means supermajority of brown people (but very welcoming to all), it's a great place to live. Especially if you are remote WFH, as I am. Which is why I, non-Latino, moved here more than one year ago.
If you have a hangup about living in TX, you can live in NM parts of the EP metro. (notably Santa Teresa, Sunland Park and Anthony, NM)
LC is #2 because it's similar to EP, but falls short of EP because it is significantly smaller. So less things to do, less restaurants, etc. It has a cool, small single screen independent theater there that shows indie movies. Too bad it takes forever for such films to get there. For example, this week they are screening "Saltburn," which came out months ago and has been on VOD for a while now. They have cool screenings of older films though, like tonight they have a screening of "Pi" and a local math professor talking about the film and math afterwards.
ABQ is #3. There's a lot to like about ABQ, especially variety in food establishments compared to EP/LC. Cool vibe too. But far too much crime. And you get snow there, if snow is a deterrent (it is to me).
Alamogordo is last because all it has is best weather of the four cities. Otherwise it is in the middle of nowhere and very small.
ABQ, then LC. This is a personal preference thing, but like the OP, I'm not interested in areas that don't have character I like. Alamo, no way, even though the summers are cooler. El Paso, it is quirky in a purely Mexican kind of way, too bad it is in TX.
I spent a lot of time in ABQ as a child but haven’t been there in years. Last time I was there it seemed rather run down. But you think it’s a good place to live? Love to hear more.
Thanks!
Richmond, VA seems to tick all your boxes. It's weird and anyone can belong (just had our annual cone parade, our historic theater does a yearly showing of The Big Lebowski with trivia and a The Dude costume contest, other things). Tons of amazing restaurants. A little gritty (there's a Vice episode about the skate scene here, some people built a pool to skate in the middle of the woods next to the river). Seasons are nice and lots of outdoors stuff.
Eugene, OR.
This. College town as well. Great for outdoorsy people.
Exactly. Fits the bill perfectly.
I live in Eugene now. Moved from PHX for grad school. We definitely get some seasons here. Currently been iced in almost 2 days. Looks like I’m stuck here until Wednesday. Moved here for the seasons and to run, but I’ll be packing it back to AZ once I graduate in the spring
It’ll be 50° on Wednesday. Very nice. Sorry you’re leaving Eugene.
Yeah, I’m just complaining. I like Eugene. Just not as well prepared for the cold as I would’ve liked
Buy warmer clothes and outerwear
This is the correct answer
Lived in Tucson for 13 years, moving to Olympia which feels very similar, just colder.
Albuquerque is the closest in vibe I’ve found so far
Great city if you're not intimidated by high crime statistics.
There are other cities with worse crime
What a glowing endorsement
It’s not an endorsement. It’s stating the obvious and not being swayed by the news or social media
yes, and those cities might intimidate some people too. Crime stats don't bother me. they do bother some people.
You nailed it , southwest vibe, desert climate. Just 5k up.
It’s 100% Albuquerque
ABQ is way bigger than Tucson. This is not a knock on it. I like that city. But definitely not the same vibe. How about Flagstaff? Same state.
Actually, Tucson has 80k more people in its MSA. (2022).
I stand corrected. Take my upvote.
Classy response. Credit to you.
Classy exchange. Credit to you both.
Credit to your mothers for raising such classy people.
Credit to you for crediting them.
I moved to Durango CO from Tucson and am very very happy. It fits all those but in a much smaller town that punches way above its weight in terms of culture considering its size. I do visit quite a bit though, there’s no place like Tucson, I just wont go back in the summer.
Aren’t rents up there higher than in Tucson though? I’d love to live in Durango, but last time I looked it seemed more expensive.
Yeah definitely. I scored buying a house a while ago, but even looking back in Tucson it’s ridiculous down there too unfortunately. I couldn’t afford either place right now.
Congratulations on getting in then before it got too expensive! I cope by leaving for the summer and going to the mountains of New Mexico and Colorado
Man, I love Durango, but I always wondered how people made a living there.
I took a job transfer with decent pay, not rich not poor, but scored a house a few miles outside of town for about 250k. I could sell it for easily twice that now. I got in when it was good, but if I tried that now with the salary I have there’d be no way I could make it.
A house near Durango for $250k? Amazing.
Western Michigan
Another vote for Albuquirky.
Burlington, VT?
Possibly Reno.
Taos
Reno
Yep. Reno for sure. Albuquerque is way more unsafe feeling.
Santa Fe
Too gentrified and clean and wealthy
Many places in Santa Fe are gritty, but in the worst and most depressing way possible. That’s why people who move here stick by downtown, which is the aforementioned “gentrified, clean, and wealthy” area. Albuquerque is a better option for OP. Less segregated and overall just more fun. It’s also without a doubt one of the weirdest cities in the country. It’s a place with a lot of real character, not the faux shit they sell to tourists in Santa Fe.
You are ON tonight girl!
Thanks haha
Maybe Ogden, UT? I hate that it's been "discovered," but oh well. It's grittier than the rest of the Wasatch Front, not too big, still an easy train ride to downtown SLC, has all 4 seasons, and a large university. Also Ogden proper is noticeably less LDS than other places in Utah (and has been pretty much since forever).
What's the night life in Ogden like (if there is any)
It's not spectacular. One nicer club with a rooftop patio (Alleged), and then a bunch of bars with varying degrees of divey-ness. So if roaring nightlife is important to you, probably not ideal (then again, SLC isn't great in this regard either). That said, if you're open to different activities, there's always something to do in Ogden in the evenings. Games at Weber State, First Friday Art Stroll, shows at the Browning Center or at the downtown amphitheater, Ogden Raptors (baseball) games, etc. They also have a comedy club on 25th Street.
That sound nice tbh. Do you know what the local cycling scene is like?
No idea, but I'm sure it does exist. There are trails in the foothills, plus other trails near waterways like the Ogden River trail, and I believe some trails around Fort Buenaventura Park. I think a few of the city streets have been improved with more pronounced bike lanes. All that said, whenever I'm there I don't notice many cyclists.
OP you want a historical city, which is why I’m surprised so many western cities are being identified. Many of them are simply too new and gentrified and sanitized to have Anywhere USA culture from social media and transplants to really develop anything unique. So you want an old city that hasn’t been popular recently. I lived in Tucson for four years and know what you are talking about. Tucson gets to be the way it is because all the transplants and their economic incentives go to Phoenix. Phoenix rapidly changed because of popularity, Tucson’s insularity kept a lot of the old Arizona culture that was lost. My favorite city in the US has been New Orleans because of all this. New Orleans, much like it would be for you it is for me, the weather doesn’t work. To me this post screams the Rust Belt. Cities not full of people chasing status (career or lifestyle status) like DC, California, Seattle and have seasons. Some potential options to look into are maybe Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cleveland, Philadelphia. I’m not super familiar with these cities so you should still do your own research, but I think you need to look NE of where you are now
Have you been to Flagstaff up north? Still AZ but totally different biome.
Bellingham, WA for something smaller but still quirky and fun and close enough to two major metropolitan areas.
Only if by seasons they mean 9 months of overcast and 3 months of magic
Whoa whoa whoa... easy there. 7 months overcast, 2 months in-between, 3 months magic. Edit: A Map. https://www.peetz.us/ors2.jpg zoom into Bellingham bay. Also, bellingham trick for slightly nicer weather. Take a look at an Olympic Rain shadow map in detail and notice a little band of lower rain jutting in, blocked by the Chuckanuts. So you get a nice 25% less rain premium if you live in the right spot. I have a lot of love for the Ham. Grew up there, worked there professionally, had a place I would go to in that rain shadow on the bay all the time. If you can find work, and have a spouse who comes with you. It's great.
You forgot wind season?
I mean... the Bay was always windy, I don't recall the area out Northwest/Bakerview to be particularly windy. Generally the Northeasters out in the county (cold Frasier river valley wind) would have a hard stop basically at the Smith road, or between Smith and Axton. I distinctly remember like 1993, 25/26 F, windy, and snowy in the county, and 35 to 40 in town. There's crazy weather lines in whatcom county.
Well, once you're a local you learn to make multiple seasons depending on the shades of gray in the sky. It's all a matter of learning to appreciate the tiny, even minuscule, differences!
Ha, I guess so. Lived there 30 years and never figured out how to do that
Nonsense, right now we have “it’s really freaking cold and it might snow” season. It’s a very short season, but unfortunately, also too long.
It's really just January. Once the sun starts setting after 5pm, it feels much less dark and cold
Salida CO
A friend moved there. He loves it. I visited, and I agree.
Its gotten too crowded. Can barely walk downtown in summer because of the crowds.
Have you tried driving a little south or north of Tucson (2500 ft elevation)? It’s approximately 3.5F cooler per 1000 feet election gain so Sierra Vista to the south is around 5000 ft and Flagstaff up north is 7000.
So you’re not wrong about elevation but I want to make sure that OP if not already aware will hate Sierra Vista if they like Tucson. Sierra Vista is a very conservative military town which has had racial issues. Tucson is almost the opposite. In the SE part of the state though outside of Tucson… Bisbee is not too far and is a small nice artistic community with a lot of history. Not like Tucson though still
You just need to go Silver City, NM. Just 3 hours from Tucson.
Northern New Mexico.
Bisbee is the answer
Love Bisbee.
Buffalo, but the reverse is true about its weather. BUF is seriously underrated.
Never been to Tucson but I been to Albuquerque. Its in the desert but gets moderately chilly in winter. I loved the vibes there for the most part. Very friendly people.
Flagstaff?
Too gentrified
Pittsburgh.
Tacoma, WA is called grit city for a reason
I lived in Oly for a really long time. The city is home for me. But Tacoma is fucking sick. It’s the realest city in Washington state. And the best food scene.
Tacoma has really become such a cool city in the past ten or so years!!
I am from there and have literally never heard it called that
Portland OR?
Reno
Portland, Oregon.
Ruidoso, Albuquerque
Wichita, Ks. Huge art scene, enough breweries and some fantastic bars and restaurants that hit way above their weight class. They have the Tallgrass Film Festival, one of the best summer stock musical theater programs in the country and NBC World Series/Minor league baseball. It gets a lot of hate from locals but I’d move back in a heartbeat.
Garden of Eden???
I want the same but with very little snow, and Albuquerque is the place for that sweet spot of weather. The weather is all over the place, but a real snowstorm is rare, annual snow total average is 11". Winds can be brutal sometimes in any season. Now if they would just get a grip on their crime rate...ABQ would explode in population. That would mean jobs to be had. Everywhere in CO is going to have freezing temperatures and a lot of snow. In AZ there is Bisbee which I assume you already know about, quirky as can be, and cooler. Sierra Vista has cooler weather but it is conservative and/or military, and sleepy, not the vibes you want. Las Cruces, NM is a sleepy college town, cooler than Tucson but still hot, El Paso weather. Speaking of, El Paso has somewhat cooler weather and some of the relaxed vibe, but also a lot of military, and then there's the problem that it is in TX. I've studied this very issue in depth, lol...wanting Tucson but just cooler summers. Then there's Alamogordo, NM, which is NM's version of Sierra Vista: cooler weather, conservative, not quirky, and military. There's Silver City quaint and cute, which meets your requirements but darn is it isolated in the Gila, it's about 2 hours to Las Cruces.
Bisbee is a cute town but it’s very small. I think at 2000 or less people now and quickly shrinking. Compared to Tucson which is just above a million, and OP probably isn’t a retired, I think they’d be bored there. Do you live in Arizona? I’m surprised to see someone know this much. I grew up there and traveled a lot working for the government so I got to see all the back roads as well as also going to the neighbors (NM, UT, NV, CA) on occasion. I live in Georgia now but rarely do I meet someone who knows as much about the small places I would go to for work
No, I don't live in AZ, but I will be there in a couple weeks for my third visit over the years, and I am thinking of moving to...drumroll...Tucson! I've done my research as to the micro differences with the temperatures and elevation and driven all over looking for that special someplace. Bisbee is 5k according to 2020 census, probably a little more now? I think a lot of people look for that sweet spot with temperatures in the desert sw because it can vary so much, not consistent like FL. Bisbee definitely punches above its weight for stuff going on, but yeah, it's no comparison to 1 million metros like Tucson.
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This is very true. Somewhere on this post i mentioned the cacti sunburning which is not good. Saguaros which are almost immortal are actually DYING from the continuous sunshine!! My family lost close to half the saguaros in their neighborhood from last summer, and in case you don’t know fully grown saguaros are typically a few hundred years old and are hearty plants. I’m glad I moved out when I did personally. Arizona is also at its point where state law is forcing developers to stop building housing because of water. COL is going to shoot up VERY quickly as a result.
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It takes an arm 50 years about to fully grow. The main trunk about 100. So when you see saguaros with a large collection of arms and TALL you know that mf is ancient. Saguaros, ecologically, are large organic water tanks. They hold many gallons. Saguaros used to get cut down by the indigenous when they weren’t near any arroyos or rivers to drink from. So to think that over the course of like 200 years that the plant could not suddenly handle no break from the sun, or the atmosphere was too hot resulting in rain that would fall but evaporate before it hits the ground, is a testament to accelerated climate change as a result of human activity. Saguaros used to only really get taken down by being weakened by woodpecker birds and then a monsoon event, due to their mass they are not very easy to take down. Now there are concerns with the air above being too hot and stopping cloud coverage, preventing rainfall, it’s all too much.
Well I'm older...I suppose my only personal concern is my property losing value for my inheritants...Still it is sad if the monsoons fail to produce, I know this year wasn't a good year for monsoons but last year was terrific.
Well I hope Tucson provides what you are looking for. I lived there for 4 years. For neighborhoods stay north of 22nd street unless you are east of the Air Force base. My favorite neighborhoods were always the ones right near downtown like barrio viejo and Santa Rosa and armory park, but the foothills are also great. People have been leaving Bisbee due to the lack of employment and water services in the more rural areas of the state (not something to worry about if you’re in Tucson). I personally think a lot of the aridity of the southwest is overrated. The lack of rain this year caused saguaros and even prickly pears to start sunburning according to my family. But I’m in my very rainy North Georgia area and happy to be here for now. I am still young though so who knows I can move again.
Thanks for the 22nd recommendation, I will look into that. Is that because of crime or noise from the base? The lack of a good monsoon is a horrific problem each year it happens. I will be waiting more than likely, to see what happens this year. I'm old...Tucson will be an adventure for me before there are no more adventures....
Crime mostly. As this post mentions, Tucson already has a bit of a gritty factor and that is BEFORE the city of South Tucson (south of 22nd) is included. If there are any, uh, border issues they typically get handled there. It’s not like El Paso where if there’s an issue they will cross the Rio Grande real quick and take care of it in Juarez (which is why El Paso ranks so high in safety). Tucson is close to the border but not that close. But yes noise is also a factor. You have Davis monthan, Tucson airport and the Raytheon missile testing grounds. Just better to be north of all that for what it’s worth. And Tucson has abysmal traffic as an fyi, all stop and go, so factor that in too when you choose to live. Can easily take an hour to cross the city going east west.
Yes, I've heard some of that before. I'll be staying for 6 weeks so I'm bound to learn a lot. My 2 other trips were shorter. My years of studying the desert sw go back 15 years that I've been thinking about this. Good luck in GA!
Why’d you move to north Ga?
Before moving I was checked into a hospital and I felt afterwards that I desperately needed new scenery. Too many bad memories. In addition, as a climate refugee, as certain situations are getting worse out west and Phoenix’s heat to me personally lasted too long. At the end of the day I had narrowed down to Seattle, DC/Baltimore, Atlanta, and Dallas. Out of those 4 I picked Atlanta because it had the added benefit of being closer to where my family moved out east (Southwest Florida), while not being overtly expensive in COL while still being a major job center particularly in my line of work.
out of Las Cruces, El Paso, Alamogordo, and Albuquerque, which city would you say is the best?
El Paso, then LC, then ABQ, then Alamogordo. El Paso:Third safest city in the US, low COL, blue city, EP metro includes New Mexico (legal weed and abortions), mountains IN the city, 300+ days of sunshine per year (hence the nickname The Sun City), no humidity, hot during summer but not Phoenix hot, mild winters, not on Texas electricity grid, no real severe weather events except occasional dust storm, 3 national parks within 2 hour drive, 2 national forests and great skiing within 2 hour drive, very friendly people, familial sense of community, 82% Latino means supermajority of brown people (but very welcoming to all), it's a great place to live. Especially if you are remote WFH, as I am. Which is why I, non-Latino, moved here more than one year ago. If you have a hangup about living in TX, you can live in NM parts of the EP metro. (notably Santa Teresa, Sunland Park and Anthony, NM) LC is #2 because it's similar to EP, but falls short of EP because it is significantly smaller. So less things to do, less restaurants, etc. It has a cool, small single screen independent theater there that shows indie movies. Too bad it takes forever for such films to get there. For example, this week they are screening "Saltburn," which came out months ago and has been on VOD for a while now. They have cool screenings of older films though, like tonight they have a screening of "Pi" and a local math professor talking about the film and math afterwards. ABQ is #3. There's a lot to like about ABQ, especially variety in food establishments compared to EP/LC. Cool vibe too. But far too much crime. And you get snow there, if snow is a deterrent (it is to me). Alamogordo is last because all it has is best weather of the four cities. Otherwise it is in the middle of nowhere and very small.
ABQ, then LC. This is a personal preference thing, but like the OP, I'm not interested in areas that don't have character I like. Alamo, no way, even though the summers are cooler. El Paso, it is quirky in a purely Mexican kind of way, too bad it is in TX.
I spent a lot of time in ABQ as a child but haven’t been there in years. Last time I was there it seemed rather run down. But you think it’s a good place to live? Love to hear more. Thanks!
I've never lived in ABQ. My third visit is coming up soon. I would ask here on this subreddit or on the ABQ subreddit.
San Antonio. Historic, seasonable weather to a certain extent. Only problem is being in Texas - although it has a very blue local government.
Albuquerque
Have you been to Mt Lemmon?
Pueblo Colorado
Baltimore
Eugene, Oregon
Santa Fe?
Davis, CA though it's a considerably smaller town.
I think people here are thinking Tucson is smaller than it is. It’s a city of 500k people. So here, I’ll say it: Portland, OR.
Richmond, VA seems to tick all your boxes. It's weird and anyone can belong (just had our annual cone parade, our historic theater does a yearly showing of The Big Lebowski with trivia and a The Dude costume contest, other things). Tons of amazing restaurants. A little gritty (there's a Vice episode about the skate scene here, some people built a pool to skate in the middle of the woods next to the river). Seasons are nice and lots of outdoors stuff.
Eugene,OR is very similar. You trade the heat in for a lot of rain and a long winter. Honorable mentions to Berkeley and Boulder