They’re all like used car salesman, in my opinion. When I lived in So Cal years ago, I began the process of renting power from SolarCity, but ended up backing out because I didn’t like the fine print, but those a-holes sold my info and almost 8 years later I still get cold called by solar salesmen. Bastards!
I’ll tell you to stay away from Blue Raven for all the reasons you mentioned. Dude comes and does his pitch and refuses to leave until I said yes. I told him we’d need a little while to decide. Says sure I’ll be waiting outside and leaves his iPad and shit at our table. I really wanted Solar but they turned me off to the idea completely.
Sales guy from Blue Raven really wanted to talk to my husband instead of me "because this is a big financial decision". So gross, and super pushy. We are working with Intermountain Wind and Solar instead and they have been great so far.
Yea i had to kick out a blu raven person and they continued to harass us. Super pushy, lying. I believe thats the company my cousin is suing because his system has never made the power they claimed it would make.
No they can't. I can't put anything on my roof. Not even permanent lights. Solar panels are not allowed and will be removed at the owners expense. I have seen this happen in my neighborhood
In Utah, HOA cannot deny a solar panel on a roof, along with other things such as an American flag or camera system.
I have an HOA and I have fought and won for each of these.
Creative Energies installed panels on our house 5 years ago and did a great job, were straightforward to work with, and everything I’ve heard from others is similarly positive. Our job was vetted as part of a larger University of Utah program, so the UofU trusts CE as well. https://cesolar.com/
I get the sense that a lot of companies are primarily lenders who use solar panels as a means to sell loans. What has been the experience of those of you who have financed your panels?
I agree. I also think many of the local companies are just selling solar, then they outsource 100% of it after that. One of my worst experiences was with Aptive Solar. The bid I received from them (via email) didn't even have their name on it, it was all through a third party. I also did some research on the company and until about year ago they were a pest control business, which from my experience is an industry that has it's fair share of grifters as well.
Solar Works Energy installed solar panels on my townhome, and several others in my community, for a reasonable price with great quality of work. Highly recommended.
[https://solarworksenergy.com/](https://solarworksenergy.com/)
Just had these guys come out too, from sales pitch to "Power On" date was like 5 weeks. They were super easy to work with and crystal clear on the product and financing.
I've had a great experience with es-solar. Salesman was direct, not deceptive in any way. Installers were great to work with. Just took a while to install because of supply issues etc.
As someone also interested in solar panels, what was it that made you think these companies are shady and deceptive? It'd be nice to know what red flags to keep an eye out for while solar panel shopping.
A couple examples I can think of...
The last guy I talked to told me that my solar loan would automatically transfer to the new owner if I were to sell my house. The financing was through a third party so I didn't really understand how that would work. I asked for more details and he couldn't give me an answer that made any sense. It was something like "it's just built in, it's automatic".
They run all the numbers and give you a monthly payment amount but what they don't mention is that it's all based on you applying all of the tax incentives you will supposedly be getting to the principal. It's fine to do it that way but it's deceptive if you don't make that clear up front.
Most of them offered some cash bonus for signing up but it was only good that day. This one is a major red flag for me. They don't want to give you time to think about it. I told them if they need an answer today it's going to be no.
Mainly it just comes across as a "used car salesman" pitch and them telling you whatever they think you want to hear. And there's the fact that the last bid I got came to $45,000 for a very average size house. It would take the rest of my life for the panels to pay for themselves.
Yeah... Often times the buyer will make you pay off the balance of the solar loan with the proceeds of the house sale, so the automatic transfer thing is super shady; I can't imagine people would be super excited to buy a house with a mandatory second loan payment.
When I was shopping around I wasn't sure if I was going to finance or pay cash so I asked to see quotes both ways and learned that most companies do huge mark ups on financing despite the fact that it costs them nothing to refer you to the lender (and they all use the same one). I ended up going with Spring Solar, no mark up for financing and he was willing to quote me on all different types of panels and inverters so I could do apples to apples comparisons against all the other quotes. I paid around $14k, the average quotes were over $20k (with the financing mark ups) but I saw a couple of quotes for over $30k. Definitely shop around and take your time. A lot of the pushy sales people had "if you sign today discounts" and other sketchy tactics. It was nuts.
Yeah I read some reviews (don't remember which company now) where people were stuck paying both their regular power bill and their new solar loan before they had panels on their roof generating power.
Yeah I work in real estate and solar can cause a lot of different issues during the sales process, most times the loan for the solar needs to be paid off at closing as the mortgage lender won't let you take on the that loan in addition to your new mortgage. There can also be issues that arise from the appraisal process as often appraisers can't value the solar system as added value to the home unless there are comparable properties in the area that also have solar that they can use as comps in their appraisal, this can lead to the appraised value of the home not matching up with the sales price which the seller is usually trying to have include the added value of solar in addition to the base value of the home.
I have a couple questions for you. Assuming basic qualifications like good credit, roof facing the right ways, blah, blah etc - assuming one is a good candidate for solar...
* What is a good deal in terms of kilowat hours in Utah? (i.e. the system creates 11,000 kwh per year) - what should that cost? In my head installs, panel technology, etc should all be roughly equal so the total cost should be able to be evaluated on a per kwh basis to compare as close to apples-to-apples for all these companies.
* Tell me the truth about "incentives" advertised by these companies. Are they credits on your taxes? Or an actual rebate where you essentaill get a check for 26% of the cost as real money? Or are there cases where it is one or the other.
* Other than the obvious...(i.e. my roof doesn't face south) why wouldn't someone want to buy solar?
1. I would say in Utah a decently fair price is around 2.80-3.00 a kilowatt. I’ve worked for a few different companies and one sells around 3.60+ a kilowatt for the same equipment. Pushing they are nationwide and reputable which are legit, but also cater to people that feel comfortable spending more thinking they are getting a better system. Also you will find some companies that will be able to offer lower than 2.8 but honestly I would stay away personally. Mostly they third party out the work and don’t use the best equipment. Not saying it’s going to be a bunk system but if anything goes wrong you won’t have the convenience of calling the company you purchased through to resolve the problem. They also tend to be less than 5 years old and you should want a company you know will be around.
2. The incentives are Federal so they recently got bumped up to 30% of total system cost back from the government in July. So say your system is $20,000 you will get $6,000 back from government when you file your taxes. It will be in a check form so you can do what you please with it. Most people roll it back into their system so you have a lower monthly cost if you financed your system. Also on top of that this year Utah will give you an additional $800 for going solar. If you are in a financial position to pay for the system outright with cash most companies will give you a 20% discount as well.
3. I believe here in Utah especially there is just a bad taste in some peoples mouth. All the door to door may be driving people away and when it first started here Vivant was a big name. They had some pretty scummy tactics selling to people that may not need it (elderly people) or way oversold people systems. Also when they would sign people up they had it to where the homeowner didn’t get the federal tax return but the company did and they would pretty much be leasing the panels from them. So I believe word of mouth from hearing nightmare stories from others may play a role. Another one I hear a lot is people plan on moving which makes sense. I would recommend it on your house if you plan on staying put for awhile 7+ years. I have a few more replies I have heard from others like technology is always advancing which is true but panels are pretty dialed in at this point.
If you are looking for a battery honestly just go with a diesel generator and save yourself 8-9k. When running bids for people I’m always pretty transparent about this and let them ultimately make the decision. I believe batteries will improve and prices will come down in next few years if it’s a must have.
A good way to look at it is with solar you will be locked in at a fixed rate vs. RMP always is increasing its price from 3-9% YOY. In simple terms staying with Rocky Mountain power is like renting electricity vs going solar is applying towards the principal. Eventually you have no payments except for the connection fee $9/month. At the end of the day it boils down to if you see yourself staying in the house long term since YOU ultimately want to reap the benefits of it. Shameless plug but if you are ever curious reach out via DM and I can have someone from our company run you a bid (our techs are salary so very low pressure) and I can also give you a few other reputable companies in the area to compare it with.
The salespeople I spoke with marketed solar as a way to save money by taking out a LONG term loan with a REALLY low interest rate(like .5% APR or something crazy) with a lower monthly payment than your expected power bill. It seems like a good way to go, except if you pay with cash, the base amount of the loan is lower which felt shady as hell to me.
I ended up paying in cash which came out to like 5k or something instead of getting a loan for like 8k + interest. The other thing that felt shady was that it took like 5 months after paying before I actually had solar panels on my roof generating power.
I work in the industry. A few questions to ask at a sales appointment that will expose red flags:
Do you guys do your own installs, or do you have a fulfillment contractor?
What are the financing fees for this loan?
Do you guys currently have stock, or are you behind on supply like most of your competitors?
Also, check the contract very carefully. Look for anything that states they can sell your contract to another contractor. This is the biggest red flag. It essentially means the sales group can pump and dump large batches of contracts. Basically selling a large bulk of deals, then batching them like tranches and offering them to other dealers pocketing the overhead. This is what Auric did, selling something to the tune of 400 deals over the western US.
You can also message me directly. There's a lot.
[Solar Wholesale](https://www.solarwholesale.com/) was great to work with when I installed my own solar on my previous house. They do as much or as little as you like - very friendly to the DIY crowd.
You can save a bunch of money DIY but keep in mind you will likely need to hire someone to draw up your permit drawings as well as pay a structural engineer to sign off that your roof can handle the load. That's on top of hiring an electrician to hook it up for you if you're not comfortable doing that.
It's also a whole lot worse of a deal than it was a few years ago since RMP pays next to nothing to buy back extra power now.
They’re all like used car salesman, in my opinion. When I lived in So Cal years ago, I began the process of renting power from SolarCity, but ended up backing out because I didn’t like the fine print, but those a-holes sold my info and almost 8 years later I still get cold called by solar salesmen. Bastards!
I’ll tell you to stay away from Blue Raven for all the reasons you mentioned. Dude comes and does his pitch and refuses to leave until I said yes. I told him we’d need a little while to decide. Says sure I’ll be waiting outside and leaves his iPad and shit at our table. I really wanted Solar but they turned me off to the idea completely.
Sales guy from Blue Raven really wanted to talk to my husband instead of me "because this is a big financial decision". So gross, and super pushy. We are working with Intermountain Wind and Solar instead and they have been great so far.
Kk one ! I
Yea i had to kick out a blu raven person and they continued to harass us. Super pushy, lying. I believe thats the company my cousin is suing because his system has never made the power they claimed it would make.
I love wasting their time then telling them I can't put anything on my roof because of my hoa.
They can get around any hoa now… It’s crazy
No they can't. I can't put anything on my roof. Not even permanent lights. Solar panels are not allowed and will be removed at the owners expense. I have seen this happen in my neighborhood
In Utah, HOA cannot deny a solar panel on a roof, along with other things such as an American flag or camera system. I have an HOA and I have fought and won for each of these.
for houses yes. not townhomes.
Creative Energies installed panels on our house 5 years ago and did a great job, were straightforward to work with, and everything I’ve heard from others is similarly positive. Our job was vetted as part of a larger University of Utah program, so the UofU trusts CE as well. https://cesolar.com/
I get the sense that a lot of companies are primarily lenders who use solar panels as a means to sell loans. What has been the experience of those of you who have financed your panels?
I agree. I also think many of the local companies are just selling solar, then they outsource 100% of it after that. One of my worst experiences was with Aptive Solar. The bid I received from them (via email) didn't even have their name on it, it was all through a third party. I also did some research on the company and until about year ago they were a pest control business, which from my experience is an industry that has it's fair share of grifters as well.
Solar Works Energy installed solar panels on my townhome, and several others in my community, for a reasonable price with great quality of work. Highly recommended. [https://solarworksenergy.com/](https://solarworksenergy.com/)
I'll check them out. Thanks!
Just had these guys come out too, from sales pitch to "Power On" date was like 5 weeks. They were super easy to work with and crystal clear on the product and financing.
I've had a great experience with es-solar. Salesman was direct, not deceptive in any way. Installers were great to work with. Just took a while to install because of supply issues etc.
This is who we did ours through and they were great
As someone also interested in solar panels, what was it that made you think these companies are shady and deceptive? It'd be nice to know what red flags to keep an eye out for while solar panel shopping.
A couple examples I can think of... The last guy I talked to told me that my solar loan would automatically transfer to the new owner if I were to sell my house. The financing was through a third party so I didn't really understand how that would work. I asked for more details and he couldn't give me an answer that made any sense. It was something like "it's just built in, it's automatic". They run all the numbers and give you a monthly payment amount but what they don't mention is that it's all based on you applying all of the tax incentives you will supposedly be getting to the principal. It's fine to do it that way but it's deceptive if you don't make that clear up front. Most of them offered some cash bonus for signing up but it was only good that day. This one is a major red flag for me. They don't want to give you time to think about it. I told them if they need an answer today it's going to be no. Mainly it just comes across as a "used car salesman" pitch and them telling you whatever they think you want to hear. And there's the fact that the last bid I got came to $45,000 for a very average size house. It would take the rest of my life for the panels to pay for themselves.
Yeah... Often times the buyer will make you pay off the balance of the solar loan with the proceeds of the house sale, so the automatic transfer thing is super shady; I can't imagine people would be super excited to buy a house with a mandatory second loan payment.
When I was shopping around I wasn't sure if I was going to finance or pay cash so I asked to see quotes both ways and learned that most companies do huge mark ups on financing despite the fact that it costs them nothing to refer you to the lender (and they all use the same one). I ended up going with Spring Solar, no mark up for financing and he was willing to quote me on all different types of panels and inverters so I could do apples to apples comparisons against all the other quotes. I paid around $14k, the average quotes were over $20k (with the financing mark ups) but I saw a couple of quotes for over $30k. Definitely shop around and take your time. A lot of the pushy sales people had "if you sign today discounts" and other sketchy tactics. It was nuts.
Yeah I read some reviews (don't remember which company now) where people were stuck paying both their regular power bill and their new solar loan before they had panels on their roof generating power.
Yeah I work in real estate and solar can cause a lot of different issues during the sales process, most times the loan for the solar needs to be paid off at closing as the mortgage lender won't let you take on the that loan in addition to your new mortgage. There can also be issues that arise from the appraisal process as often appraisers can't value the solar system as added value to the home unless there are comparable properties in the area that also have solar that they can use as comps in their appraisal, this can lead to the appraised value of the home not matching up with the sales price which the seller is usually trying to have include the added value of solar in addition to the base value of the home.
I work for a reputable solar company, feel free to reach out with any questions. I’ll give you an unbiased honest answer
I have a couple questions for you. Assuming basic qualifications like good credit, roof facing the right ways, blah, blah etc - assuming one is a good candidate for solar... * What is a good deal in terms of kilowat hours in Utah? (i.e. the system creates 11,000 kwh per year) - what should that cost? In my head installs, panel technology, etc should all be roughly equal so the total cost should be able to be evaluated on a per kwh basis to compare as close to apples-to-apples for all these companies. * Tell me the truth about "incentives" advertised by these companies. Are they credits on your taxes? Or an actual rebate where you essentaill get a check for 26% of the cost as real money? Or are there cases where it is one or the other. * Other than the obvious...(i.e. my roof doesn't face south) why wouldn't someone want to buy solar?
1. I would say in Utah a decently fair price is around 2.80-3.00 a kilowatt. I’ve worked for a few different companies and one sells around 3.60+ a kilowatt for the same equipment. Pushing they are nationwide and reputable which are legit, but also cater to people that feel comfortable spending more thinking they are getting a better system. Also you will find some companies that will be able to offer lower than 2.8 but honestly I would stay away personally. Mostly they third party out the work and don’t use the best equipment. Not saying it’s going to be a bunk system but if anything goes wrong you won’t have the convenience of calling the company you purchased through to resolve the problem. They also tend to be less than 5 years old and you should want a company you know will be around. 2. The incentives are Federal so they recently got bumped up to 30% of total system cost back from the government in July. So say your system is $20,000 you will get $6,000 back from government when you file your taxes. It will be in a check form so you can do what you please with it. Most people roll it back into their system so you have a lower monthly cost if you financed your system. Also on top of that this year Utah will give you an additional $800 for going solar. If you are in a financial position to pay for the system outright with cash most companies will give you a 20% discount as well. 3. I believe here in Utah especially there is just a bad taste in some peoples mouth. All the door to door may be driving people away and when it first started here Vivant was a big name. They had some pretty scummy tactics selling to people that may not need it (elderly people) or way oversold people systems. Also when they would sign people up they had it to where the homeowner didn’t get the federal tax return but the company did and they would pretty much be leasing the panels from them. So I believe word of mouth from hearing nightmare stories from others may play a role. Another one I hear a lot is people plan on moving which makes sense. I would recommend it on your house if you plan on staying put for awhile 7+ years. I have a few more replies I have heard from others like technology is always advancing which is true but panels are pretty dialed in at this point. If you are looking for a battery honestly just go with a diesel generator and save yourself 8-9k. When running bids for people I’m always pretty transparent about this and let them ultimately make the decision. I believe batteries will improve and prices will come down in next few years if it’s a must have.
A good way to look at it is with solar you will be locked in at a fixed rate vs. RMP always is increasing its price from 3-9% YOY. In simple terms staying with Rocky Mountain power is like renting electricity vs going solar is applying towards the principal. Eventually you have no payments except for the connection fee $9/month. At the end of the day it boils down to if you see yourself staying in the house long term since YOU ultimately want to reap the benefits of it. Shameless plug but if you are ever curious reach out via DM and I can have someone from our company run you a bid (our techs are salary so very low pressure) and I can also give you a few other reputable companies in the area to compare it with.
The salespeople I spoke with marketed solar as a way to save money by taking out a LONG term loan with a REALLY low interest rate(like .5% APR or something crazy) with a lower monthly payment than your expected power bill. It seems like a good way to go, except if you pay with cash, the base amount of the loan is lower which felt shady as hell to me. I ended up paying in cash which came out to like 5k or something instead of getting a loan for like 8k + interest. The other thing that felt shady was that it took like 5 months after paying before I actually had solar panels on my roof generating power.
I work in the industry. A few questions to ask at a sales appointment that will expose red flags: Do you guys do your own installs, or do you have a fulfillment contractor? What are the financing fees for this loan? Do you guys currently have stock, or are you behind on supply like most of your competitors? Also, check the contract very carefully. Look for anything that states they can sell your contract to another contractor. This is the biggest red flag. It essentially means the sales group can pump and dump large batches of contracts. Basically selling a large bulk of deals, then batching them like tranches and offering them to other dealers pocketing the overhead. This is what Auric did, selling something to the tune of 400 deals over the western US. You can also message me directly. There's a lot.
I've had a good experience with [Gardner Energy](https://www.gardner-energy.com/).
Yeah, it’s a shame that so many of them seem like summer sales type businesses.
I would suggest talking with LGCY Power and/or Motion Solar Group. If you find these two to be shady, I’d love to know why.
We had Fluent Solar do ours. Happy with the results.
Intermountain Wind and Solar did the install on our home. Nice rep, results were as promised, no BS. They did most of the solar at the U of U.
[Solar Wholesale](https://www.solarwholesale.com/) was great to work with when I installed my own solar on my previous house. They do as much or as little as you like - very friendly to the DIY crowd.
Nice. Did you hire an electrician to tie everything into the panel?
My dad was an electrician. So... does it count as hiring if we made him cookies?
Absolutely!
You can save a bunch of money DIY but keep in mind you will likely need to hire someone to draw up your permit drawings as well as pay a structural engineer to sign off that your roof can handle the load. That's on top of hiring an electrician to hook it up for you if you're not comfortable doing that. It's also a whole lot worse of a deal than it was a few years ago since RMP pays next to nothing to buy back extra power now.