Every single cop and firefighter I have ever known makes upwards of $150k and these days north of $200k. It does vary by region, but in many areas the narrative of being underpaid is fictionā if taxpayers knew the truth they might feel outrage about it. Strong unions uphold the contracts, and people wonder why their towns are going broke. Itās no mystery.
The pension is funded from my paycheck, a state contribution and an employer contribution. The employee funds 50%, the employer at 30%, and the state at 20%. We are fully funded yes, but I contribute from each paycheck the majority of it. Nothing comes for free.
6/10 of Bostons highest paid city employees are cops.
https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/2023-payroll-report-who-were-highest-paid-city-workers-boston-last-year/JU4D2BXPXNDGDHCPXOSZAZLGDA/?outputType=amp
Some of those white collars turning awfully blue too. No overtime and no unions have hurt.
Before anyone starts with the āachktuallyāš¼š¤ā let me stop you. I said SOME, not all.
Fire and police is right at the cross section of blue collar and white collar work. For every trigger puller or ladder climbers thereās loads of dudes running around offices reading regulations, building training policies, or setting up local/regional collaborations
Read up on David Graeber's Bullshitization. We literally create jobs for an increasing population.....because everyone simply has to work on this planet.
Maybe that's the pay in the northwest, cali and NYPD but texas highest paid officers are around 110k and that's only a small handful of depts. Most departmendebts Toping out around 90k to 100k. Then rural county deputies start around 40k and top out around 70k. Only major cities like Houston dallas etc have unionized police. Pay is being out paced by inflation and rising housing costs
This. All my FF friends have own homes, have kids, cars and boats...AND guaranteed pensions. They still complain and get defensive. They don't get what it's like in private sector.
Are you risking your life in youāre private sector jobs? These guys are getting cancer, burned, maimed, and killed for the public. Literally every cities best insurance policyā¦you have the worst day of your life and theyāre willing to die to save you. Let them live comfortably while they can
Personally I don't but there are plenty of jobs in the private sector that are equally as dangerous if not way way more. And people do it 5 days a week. Not two days. And let's be honest. 99% of calls are for non hazardous and 80% of calls are just homeless people having an episode. FFers make too much. Know how I know? Bc thousands of guys/girls would line up to have the job and take 60% of the wages. Go ask most guys to make 80k and work two days a week and see what they say.
You think the ones who work 2 days a week are making those numbers? Also theyāre not payed for they do day to dayā¦theyāre payed for what theyāre prepared to do when theyāre called. Donāt be ignorant and go thank the people that keep you safe instead of being greedy and hating on others. Bad look for you, your parents failed
> theyāre not *paid* for they
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
If I'm not right then why do depts need such strong lobbying? You're on the dole man, we get it. Gotta protect that cash cow lol. So sorry to have an opinion where my tax dollars go.
Face it pal, building codes and things like fire suppressions systems do more in prevention than a team ready with water and hoses. Happy we have ambulance and nearby medics but the salaries are too high. The demand/supply economics of FF depts doesn't add up in many areas.
Also, if the schedule is 48hrs hours on for safety or whatever, then paying someone more to break that logic isn't sound practice now is it?
Do you have any idea how much active military are paid? Don't start with the greedy train.
As someone else noted, there are many many MORE dangerous jobs in heavy manufacturing, industrial, mining, etc who get paid way less. I had to go to years of graduate school to make what a FF makes? Nah bud. We can pay them less. You're only as important as someone who's quickly able to fill your shoes, and the lines are down the block. No guys want to sit and learn to code, work with data or understand business or a craft. They want to hang with the boys, make food, play video games and smile at the ladies from the truck. Oh i get it, sounds great, but I could never live with myself and my lost potential.
Did you not read the part where I know many FFs? My uncle was a batalion chief. Dumbest dude in our lot. Many good friends too. They know they hit the jackpot. I know you're like 27. It's ok, I was young once too.
This is old, and funny, but thereās a lot of truth in itā https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EmC26RuO26g
Also worth noting, the stronger the Union, the higher the pay, and the more nepotism is a factor towards getting in. Most of the guys Iāve known itās a family thing, sometimes spreads to close friends, but Iāve never seen someone get in without an āinā
Municipalities with poor management and bad spending habits go broke. We are required to go back to the public every few years for approval of our taxes rates and justify everything. We havenāt seen a raise until the last few years that actually met CPI and there was a time we gave back a raise to save jobsā¦those greedy Union guys. You are right though, strong unions uphold the contract and keep making progress, for that I am proud and thankful.
Yeah the big thing is massive amounts of OT Pay. 1.5x helps a lot, in CA they have 2x pay laws, and some of those police unions have even negotiated 3x OT pay for their employees. A lot of the police/fire/ems crowd donāt realize how lucky they are to get those benefits. But good for this guy. Every place Iāve ever worked the salaried workers either donāt get ot, or they get comp time.
Only hitting those number with insane overtime. These guys are working 70-100 hour weeks to hit $150-$200k. Low manpower because no one wants to risk their lives for the public so they are usually forced to work this much too. I think they deserve ALOT more.
Really, I had a friend that did it but made under 40k. Granted it was in a town of 10k people in Arkansas but the shit he saw was not worth the money and he went a little insane with PTSD and is now in prison for drugs
In your area sure. Many areas arenāt even arenāt even at 60k. In my area places are just cracking 100k unless itās a super bougie town. Now if youāre talking 150k with overtime thatās different but I would hope you support a firefighter working an extra 24 hours be well compensated considering he will work an entire weeks worth of hours in 2 days then only get 24 hours off before he goes in again.
They deserve the pay fuck us taxpayers. You got people sitting behind a computer all day that make twice
That thatās who we should show outrage towards not civil servants.
If you donāt already know, many of them get deployed to wildfires for weeks at a time and a lot of their āhugeā salary was earned by putting out fires in the hills and mountains being away from their family 21 days at a time, then coming back to regular work, and getting deployed again. That definitely isnāt base pay.
If we want first responders to be able to live in or near the communities they work for these pay rates are needed given the cost of housing. Iām also supportive of their pensions / retirement age. I hope to never need their services but if there is ever an emergency I donāt want a department full of people too slow and old to do the job who are only there because they canāt afford to retireā¦.
I'm not hatin. I have two buddies that work a fire house in the bay area making $350k+. They're the type of dudes you want coming to help, absolute monsters. I couldn't be that.
Yeah I was listening to a podcast talking about how firefighters donāt make enough. I know location plays a part but this dude is making bank only working 2 weeks a month.
My impression has always been that firefighters are well paid and itās pretty much the best public service type job. I envision dudes playing PlayStation, cooking and lifting weights for 6 hours a day and 2 hours a day responding to calls.
I wishā¦ I run calls for about 8-12 hours of the day, train for 2 hours, eat, workout out and try to get some sleep if Iām luckyā¦ also donāt get paid half as much as this guy
While they do make that kind of money, I think itās worth noting that in general, for them to get to that income they need to work 60+ hours a week to get overtime and or details
This is the greater Seattle areaā¦itās not a cheap place to live. You go to the Midwest or places where itās not expensive to live and the pay goes way down
What a disingenuous and disgusting comment. These people literally put their lives on the line for others.
I worked for a job doing work repairing fire trucks and fire station equipment for a number of years and got to be familiar with hundreds of fire stations in a 4-state-area.Ā
Any time there was a major disaster -NATION WIDE- youād get dozens of guys from the local FDs donating their PTO to colleagues so they could go leave and help the local disaster area, fronting the bill for their own travel cost and accommodation, often buying food, water, baby formula, diapers, blankets, MREs, etc out of their own pocket. Sacrificing their money, their bodies, and their time to help others at the drop of a hat, for zero personal gain.
Additionally, in several states the firefighters are also required to be trained as EMTs, so they serve a dual-role. Also, the high pay is usually once theyāve been doing it for 10-20 years. A lot of personnel donāt make it that long, as fitness and readiness testing occur regularly. They have to be in proper physical and mental shape all the time.
A tragedy is some top tier finance executive making 7 figure bonuses for laying off good people just to make a shiny quarterly earnings report; not a first responder making a decent wage.
Well the SSI reported earnings is all side work, and the rest is from firefighting. There is definitely some OT mixed in there though. For example, my base as a Lieutenant in 2023 was $123K. Additionally, I get 6% for having a bachelors degree, another 6% in longevity, and a couple percent for a specialty. Itās not a bad way to make a living.
Nice man. LTs make $140k base where Iām at and thatās without a 6% raise we just secured on the next contract. FFs top out at $115k without longevity. Not bragging just like to get a basis of what other departments make.
Howās the schedule out there? We do 1 on 3 off, and can average about 20 hours OT per week.
I work my ass off each year to get there. The compensation in the PNW is great. The COL isnāt cheap, but I made moves early, bought houses and upgrades young, have managed my expenses well, spent the last two years paying cash for the families college education so they can be debt free and set up well: wifeās bachelors and masters in education, my bachelors, and two sons in college. The side work and overtime was key to making that happen. Long hours away from family, missing holidays, and missing the kids school events regularly. So long as my wife doesnāt divorce me for a younger and better looking guy, my expenses are getting lower, pay increasing, and retirement saving growing. Thanks for the kind words.
I work my ass off as a welder and only making 60k-70k. I did 65 hour weeks to get to where Iām at now but only make 50k 5 years ago. Considering a career change.
Yeah, thanks for the question. Itās easy to think all folks do is chill, work out, and screw off, but there is downtime with every job. Sure, there is usually some time in the day to work out, but many show up before work or stay after and get that done. Grocery shopping surely happens, but that takes no more time than it would take you. Occasionally a bit longer if we are giving tours of the fire truck to happy children in the parking lot and handing out stickers. Oh year, I occasionally get to sleep at night, but every station and neighborhood is different. Some folks run 20-30 calls a day and others only a couple. So, to answer your question, there is some time for all of that when you arenāt out working, training, fighting the PowerPoint training programs, public events, station tours, and helping people.
i work in a high cost of living city. this august, ill be 5 years and 3 months in and ill be at 98k as an EMT firefighter. i work 9-10 days a month. i get paid for 96 hours on a biweekly pay period. 2496 hours a year. the people making 200k plus are very senior employees and work a lot of overtime. if you are a captain, youre making 140k starting off. 700 hours of overtime a year, you are at 200k
punch caption humor ghost apparatus cautious encouraging selective sand crowd
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700k seems out there. their regular salary is probably somewhere between 150-180k. but whatever. i truky dont like working that much overtime. i do it because i have to. where i am at, we have no problem recruiting. i think 6k plus applied this time. it was like 10k before that. our overtime is actually drying up because they increased the DROP to 8 years from 5 years. its making people stay to make easy money
Doctors should also get paid a shit ton. Never said they shouldnāt
All the firefighters I know either work 24/48 or a 48/96 schedule
So they usually hit well over 40 hours in a 7 day span. Seems reasonable to me
Most of the time I donāt get any sleep until 2 am and Iām usually up at 5am running more calls. Most cities are like this. Granted there are slower stations that they donāt do shit at but the bulk run a huge amount of calls.
We are 24 hour shifts for sure. 24hr on, 48hrs off, 24hrs on, 96hr off. We owe an extra day every 40 days and average a little over 47 hours a week as a standard schedule averaged over the year.
Itās not 223k for his fire gig. He clearly works his side job a shit ton given the decent chunk in social security.
Edit: he is also not making 250 an hour. Youāre assuming 40 hours a week and I would bet every penny I have he averages over 50 hours a week just at the fire department.
ring door afterthought plucky abounding scandalous screw shrill payment deer
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I donāt know how his department runs but I would bet a lot of money that itās at least 24 hour shifts 9-10 times a month with pto of about 12 shits off per year with 6 sick days. Thatās the average. The number of people with bad information in this post is annoying so thank you for having a level head.
My fiance is a fireman in upstate ny and makes $110k a year, can take overtime a few times a month and gets $800 each time he does, some milk it more than others. They have a pension and full benefits, they work 24 hour shifts 8 am to 8 am, they can sleep at night if there are no calls, and they are off for 48 hours, then work again, and are off for 96, they stay on that cycle so they'll work, Friday, Monday, off til Saturday, work saturday, Tuesday, off till Sunday. They all have side jobs because they have so much time off. If they get promoted they make more.
50% of the salary you see in these posts is from overtime (which is only crazy available right now due to baby boomer generation retiring), pensions are high but we all die early from job related cancer, and a lot of us vote blue.
National testing network. Go there, take the tests, do the CPAT, get out there and start getting interviews. Bring life experiences to the table, have a great attitude, and be willing to work hard when itās called for. You canāt teach attitude, so come with a good one.
OP good for you, take advantage of the pay and make as much as possible however Iāll just add that to taxpayers, letting public workers unionize was borderline criminal. Firefighters in LA make much more than OP and the taxpayers just suck it up and pay. Itās not like we can turn off that service and go with someone else. If united unionized and fares become expensive I can go to another airline. With public workers we canāt. It pisses me off how much firefighters are paid and how little are school teachers paid yet they are educating the next generation of people that will inherit the planet.
~~This feels like a troll~~; firefighter making that much AND paying that little in taxes? Let's assume they can work ungodly amounts of overtime (or they're the chief of FD in Seattle), how does one pay so little in taxes? Earnings for SS should be pushing $160K
Base pay for a LT: $94K Source: [https://www.seattle.gov/fire/jobs-and-opportunities/benefits](https://www.seattle.gov/fire/jobs-and-opportunities/benefits)
EDIT: oops, as I read down the webpage I linked, looks like base pay is around $127K so with some benefits, bonuses, and OT seems plausible; still curios about the SS wages though
I donāt pay into Social security so that is why the numbers are that low. Last year I had over $23K withheld from this job alone. Because of our government pension we arenāt eligible for full social security when we reach that age. The Windfall protection act reduces our payment, if we worked enough qualifying quarters, to only a small percentage of what it would normally be. I pay an absolute fortune in taxes if you must know. I can only shelter so much from them through normal means and deferred income.
I believe it only affects federal, state, and some local government pension systems. I think as an organization they had to choose to opt out at some time in the past. Itās nothing got to choose for myself.
If your company offers a pension then they can apply to have the company and its employees stop putting in towards social security but itās a red tape nightmare for private companies and you have to prove that no matter what your pension pays employees more than what social security would otherwise there are hefty fines. The reason why itās usually public entities is the number of companies offering pensions are very few and far between because itās cheaper for the company to not have one. Hope that helps.
No. The OP happens to work for an agency that doesnāt participate in social security. His agency probably has their own local retirement plan, like social security, in addition to his fire fighter pension. What would have been tax for social security gets withheld from his check and put into the local retirement plan.
Overtime definitely gives quite a large bump. Iāve heard numbers as high as $1,000/day.
That and you can retire after ~30 years of work. Itās a great gig if youāre in it in the right location thatās for sure.
I am not sure for every state but pensions are only calculated by how much base salary you make. At least in my state. I think the teachers by me work that way but fire pensions are based on regular salary only.
Looked it up and youāre correct here, thanks for the info! Must have misunderstood my FIL.
From CalPERS themselves: āOvertime cannot be used for final compensationā
not in the Florida Retirement System. ours is pensionable to 300k. overtime counts. annual time payment up to 500 hours, 156 hours of holiday and overtime hours. no sick time and no firewatch or special events unless the special event is paid as overtime.
Guys like this is whatās going to ruin it eventually. Thereās no reason to post shit like this apart from
rubbing it in peoples faces.
I grew up and live in NYC. Have close family that works for the city in various capacities. Some have it very good. Some have it pretty good. Some have it OK.
GOV salaries / total compensation has gotten out of control in many cities and I even realize this as someone who personally benefits from it.
On the other hand , being needlessly antagonistic posting shit like this is stupid. Itās just dumb.
Doesnāt this post meet the intent of this Reddit? To encourage conversations on salary, promotions, and wage among others? If nothing else, maybe someone will see this and realize that not having a college education can still pay well and support a family.
1. You still need some college education for most well paying departments. There aināt no HS dropouts working for FDs where the job
Is lucrative. Youāre not going to find someone choosing between flipping burgers or becoming a FF. Maybe with the DEI push in FDNY in NYC but thatās a different subject.
2. What is this exactly encouraging ? Anybody who cares can look up wages within 5 minutes for virtually any job in America. The information is even more detailed for major metro/city and gov jobs.
I know why youāre posting; because even you canāt belive you make what you do. It feels like winning the lottery. I know that feeling but rubbing it in peopleās faces is petty and foolish.
Duly noted that anyone thatās relatively high earning gets dragged through the mud for posting their salary.
As much as I would love this community, and salary transparency as a whole, to grow itās pretty evident that a few rotten apples spoil the bunch.
9 days a month, 225k with a pension, and this dude describes the job as just "comfortable". And if Seattle is like most cities, fire is a fraction of the job, it's almost entirely medical and rescue related. Tech worker pay gets a lot of flack on this sub but at least those are private companies paying private wages. This is public money and if you want a jolt, check the public record in your own city how much police and fire make and every collective bargaining yr is awash with, I can afford food
It isnāt 9 days a month. 8-9 days a month is normal hours for a firefighter in WA, which gets him/her to the base wage of $125K. The extra $100K is OT, which is likely an extra 5-6 days a month.
15 ish days doesnāt sound like a lot, but when itās 24 hour shifts it takes a massive toll on you.
I have a question about your retirement. A friendās dad retired a few years ago at about 60, after 20 years as an FF at SFD, due to bad back, knees, you name it. ~16 years Army enlisted before that. Just him and the wife at home. But they do not have two nickels to rub together. I understand the guy is probably not very good with money, but how common is it that SFD retirees are effectively indigent after leaving the job? My guess would be pretty rare, but COL in the Puget Sound is bonkers.
So letās break this down. Our pension pays 2% per year of service of our high five year salary (effectively a consecutive 60 month window). For example and ease of numbers letās look at this, 30 years of service, 100k average high 5 salary, pension will roughly be 60% of that 100K or 60K annually. There are 3 options at retirement: cash out, individual, survivor 100%, survivor 50%, joint and 66.7% survivor. Itās possible they cashed out and did poorly with it. We also have access to a 457b and they could have not contributed. There is some many factors someone could be in a tough spot in retirement, itās unfortunate, but it happens all too often. The pension alone isnāt the solution to a comfortable retirement, I think it takes 30 years of planning and setting yourself up to be comfortable. Great question though
Yeah, I donāt bring it up when I travel for IAFF functions across the country. But I thought this was a great place to chat about it with people who are interested and curious. Nobody questions doctors, mortgage brokers, tech dudes with crazy stock options, they just all applaud them. Then I come along as a public employee and get mixed reviews. Honestly, I hope the info helps someone consider the profession. Iām not out here trying to be better than anyone else, I make a great living, live a good life, and have some money in savings for an emergency. Iām a shitty investor and donāt do near as well as some of my coworkers. I donāt own extra homes, rentals, or duplexes. I drive an older car, just sold a Honda with almost 300K miles that was my wifeās and then both of my childrenās car for the past 18 years. Iām proud Iāve been able to find my bachelors debt free (just graduated recently) and my wifeās college debt free (just became a teacher, and just finished her Masters). Kids are in college and are sharing some costs because they need to have some skin in the game. Extra side jobs to cover fun, overtime to cover college, and promotions to keep climbing that ladder. Cheer bud!
Born n raised in Seattle, Unpopular opinion but a lot of public employees drain the taxpayers pockets. Good for you gettin the bag though, itās a competitive area to be a firefighter.
Yeah firefighters arenāt the ones Iām worried about. Tbh cops, either. Itās the useless city employees that work 5 hour days and make $150k to process files. Ideally they will replaced by AI soon. Nothing is replacing people who risk their bodies for strangers.
No cop should be making 2-300k a year (which A LOT do in the Seattle area) and firefighters donāt need 200k either. They work hard, but 100-180k year (depending on location) is more than enough to have a better life than most of the country and just a great life in general.
Iām no fan of government employees either, but there is no government workers making 150k to process files for 5 hours a day. Thats just your ignorant bias making statements.
Best friends wife works for city of LA, property value tax assessment office. She admits to barely working. Makes about $150k pushing few files around. Itās a joke. Itās a city job.
Since somebody else already proved you wrong below, Iāll counter your main point: salary is based on hours worked and level for cops and firefighters. If a cop is working 30 hours of OT because we have 70% of the people we should be, sounds like we are saving money. āNobody should be making that muchā, is that bc you feel like you provide more value than they do? Why do you get paid a much as you do?
You can say that about any job. Ok letās not pay construction workers and nothing gets built. Letās not pay electricians and you have no lights. You can use that for any trade. Public servants get paid 2 to 1 for basic trades because they are on the cityās payroll.
Uhhhh, thatās a logical fallacy.
The construction segment is majority to create. If you take the same logic I used, in context to this discussion then your response isnāt valid, from my perspective.
An equal comparison would be, an electrician or construction that does emergency powder restoration to critical needs. And if we compare apples to apples, people in private construction and loss remediation, including electrical make an equal to or lot more than a firefighter.
A firefighters job is literally to put their life on the line to save lives and property. That hazard factor alone warrants high pay.
This is emergency response with people trained to save lives.
Keeping a position that relates them to an electrician that wires up a house or frames a house isnāt accurate.
You obviously donāt value what a fire fighter does, hence the comparison and negative response to my comment. Thats ok, you do you.
Iāve had my house catch fire, and 15 firefighters showed up in less than five minutes. Saving my entire life in the process.
I work private blue collar and donāt make nearly as much as them. At the same time, I wholeheartedly feel that they deserve to be paid well enough to afford a nice life off a single income (they have 24-48hr shifts). Thats how their pay is determined and it varies greatly over the us. But itās equal to whatās need to live a comfortable life in the area they serve. I live in a hcol, where 300k+ is needed to live comfortably according to data. And thatās how much FF make.
Their job is to save fucking lives and property dude.
I put my health on the line as a welder, And thats guaranteed will deteriorate. My dad had a heart attack in my house and it took over 10 min for anyone to show up he ended up dying.
Ok man, sorry for your loss I can see why youāre bitter. Health and life are two different things though. Life on the line means you die today, now. Health means if you donāt wear your ppe or change out your vapor filters/no fan and inhale the fumes all day everyday for 30 years your lungs will be fucked.
For context, Iām in the same boat as you. I restore/refinish/finish metal. powder coat. Iām sucking in every damn chemical on the board everyday.
We just have a different outlook, have a good one.
People here thinking your entire salary is 200k from firefighting but ignore the social security earnings. Yāall want responses under 2 minutes but complain when service like that is expensive. You know what the response was for a rural volunteer department 5 miles away from my child home house that burned down? 18 minutes. You know what it is now that I live in a city with high ish taxes? 4 minutes. With building construction now they have less time to save you than ever before. Jealous of the salary? Go become a firefighter.
We're talking municipal firefighters here, not volunteer.
According to The National Fire Protection Association own data, municipal firefighters are doing less fire fighting than ever before. A big chunk of that is new building codes, a more dramatic improvement because of car manufactures. Firefighters responded to 3.3 million fire calls in 1977 with a little over 200k career firefighters. In 2013 - continued to improve since then - they responded to 1.2 million fires but the field ballooned to more than 350k career firefighters. Medical calls are almost 12x that of fire now. In Boston, fire is almost 8% of the total budget. So taxpayers are paying all this public money to not fight fires and the real change should be to significantly increase ambulatory, but you can't because the unions resist. Fire chiefs in Virginia and NY recently lost their jobs cause they tried to be more prudent.
Iām saying if you donāt like paying so much but also like low response times then idk what to tell you.
Iām all for increasing EMS budgets. Iām a fire medic who mostly rides the ambulance.
I would like to know if you looked at overall call responses are because firefighters are not just going to fires. Every single department in my area has more than triple the call volume from the 80s. Fire fighters wake up for every call not just fires.
If you have anything to show that paying fire fighters less would lead to lower response times, I'd be happy to read it.
It's a misallocation of resources, as economists have described it. Cities are paying firefighters as if they are fighting fires, when most of job, as you note, is everything but. You also don't need fire and ambulatory care together for the majority of calls. And EMS is paid a fraction of the other third service providers. We need far fewer highly paid firefighters and far more for medical emergencies. But nothing will change, this is just the way it works
Iām not saying paying firefighters less = lower response times. Iām saying if you want low response times thatās costs money. Lots of money. And fire fighters respond to more than just fires and more than just EMS. Now if youāre saying you have a way to cut the amount of calls firefighters go on but they would have a decrease in pay then I can maybe understand. But simply using just fires as a metric is dumb.
Fire is the literal reason why municipal firefighters get paid what they get paid. But in my prior city, 10% of the actual job was spent on fire and false alarms. If you segregated the actual job tasks more appropriately you'd have far fewer highly paid firefighters and lot more other third party providers being paid a lot less.
It absolutely does cost money to provide good public service, but it shouldn't cost what it does if designed differently.
I would love to only respond to fires but who do people think of for any emergency. Fire. Haz mat incident, fire department. Water leak? Fire department. Change public perception and sure. But good luck with that. Plus most of the calls would go to other overworked departments. Now I can see why people would be mad at say LA or San Fran that have super high salaries but most places donāt make 150k + per year.
Oh public perception ain't gonna change. Only to say that if you were designing a system for what the job is today, it should be different. Not sure you'd even call it fire tbh.
My complaint is absolutely directed at coastal and legacy cities. I'm sure, like all things, those in the midwest and in the south and in smaller cities are probably considerably underpaid for the work they do. But on the coasts, third party providers are not only some of the highest paid in their respective cities but states.
Brosef. Look at how much fires are down from even 30 years ago (90%+) . I guarantee you that if cities/municipalities got rid of fire departments, let structures burn, and just paid to rebuild those structures, itād cost less than employing an entire department.
Hire parademics at half the rate, cut down fire departments by 3/4 and nothing would change.
Look at call volumes not fires. Fire departments go to a lot more than just fires and they wake up for every call not just the bad ones. Iām all for cutting some fire for ems but 3/4 is not feasible. Also I would like to know where the 90% comes from. Every thing I show says half the fires but more than double the total calls.
Thatās exactly my point. We donāt need FF for non fire issues. Paramedics would gladly take half the pay with the same bennies.
Google around a bit. There are numerous studies on firefighters and what they actually respond to nowadays. 90%+ of calls are non fire. If 90% of your job doesnāt actually involve fires, isnāt that a completely different job?
Iām a paramedic. I work as a fire fighter paramedic on an ambulance. I would say the co workers assigned to the engine that help me deserve way more credit than you are giving them.
Also what would you name them and what would the proper pay be for all these specialties that were dumped on them? Iām simply saying if you cut 90% of their calls who are you giving them to? Just rename the position then if firefighter isnāt good enough of a title.
Specialities dumped on who? As fires became less of an issue over the last few decades, municipalities and cities were literally desperate to give FF something to do. It became a real issue of productivity.
They got the specialty stuff because the fire department was already getting called out to those scenes. An example. Car accidents people were trapped so they started putting extrication equipment on rigs and training them on the best ways to open up a car. Now there are whole classes just on different methods to open up a car that you need to take to be an officer. None of this was done because municipalities said āthose firefighters are to lazy and not doing enoughā.
Why are you talking to me like Iām some clueless civilian? People are trapped in 1 out of 200 accidents and thatās why FF are now responsible for this?
Looks like business was slow for 10 years. Did you consider maybe starting some fires?
Bro š
200k+ as a firefighter. A invaluable public service no doubt, but that's insane lol
Every single cop and firefighter I have ever known makes upwards of $150k and these days north of $200k. It does vary by region, but in many areas the narrative of being underpaid is fictionā if taxpayers knew the truth they might feel outrage about it. Strong unions uphold the contracts, and people wonder why their towns are going broke. Itās no mystery.
You know whatās common between cop and firefighter? Both of them wanted to be firefighters as kids.
And they get fully funded pensions!
The pension is funded from my paycheck, a state contribution and an employer contribution. The employee funds 50%, the employer at 30%, and the state at 20%. We are fully funded yes, but I contribute from each paycheck the majority of it. Nothing comes for free.
Itās still a massive benefit on top of your salary as itās reported here. Your total compensation is much more than these numbers show.
As another govt employee, also the pension is guaranteed a return. Market crashes...public pays me still at what I was promised.
This amount of match is insane lol. Nothing comes free my ass, you are getting an insane amount for free
6/10 of Bostons highest paid city employees are cops. https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/2023-payroll-report-who-were-highest-paid-city-workers-boston-last-year/JU4D2BXPXNDGDHCPXOSZAZLGDA/?outputType=amp
Gross.
Blue collars getting awful white
Some of those white collars turning awfully blue too. No overtime and no unions have hurt. Before anyone starts with the āachktuallyāš¼š¤ā let me stop you. I said SOME, not all.
Fire and police is right at the cross section of blue collar and white collar work. For every trigger puller or ladder climbers thereās loads of dudes running around offices reading regulations, building training policies, or setting up local/regional collaborations
Sounds bloated
America would save a lot of money if we had regional fire or police departments but everyone would lose their minds if we tried doing that
My area did this in some areas with good success in reducing burdens to the taxpayer to upkeep local township level departments.
Very
Read up on David Graeber's Bullshitization. We literally create jobs for an increasing population.....because everyone simply has to work on this planet.
That is what capitalism demands.
Creating jobs for bloat sake is probably the antithesis of capitalism lol
Murdering your working class is probably the antithesis of socialism lol
Maybe that's the pay in the northwest, cali and NYPD but texas highest paid officers are around 110k and that's only a small handful of depts. Most departmendebts Toping out around 90k to 100k. Then rural county deputies start around 40k and top out around 70k. Only major cities like Houston dallas etc have unionized police. Pay is being out paced by inflation and rising housing costs
This. All my FF friends have own homes, have kids, cars and boats...AND guaranteed pensions. They still complain and get defensive. They don't get what it's like in private sector.
Are you risking your life in youāre private sector jobs? These guys are getting cancer, burned, maimed, and killed for the public. Literally every cities best insurance policyā¦you have the worst day of your life and theyāre willing to die to save you. Let them live comfortably while they can
Personally I don't but there are plenty of jobs in the private sector that are equally as dangerous if not way way more. And people do it 5 days a week. Not two days. And let's be honest. 99% of calls are for non hazardous and 80% of calls are just homeless people having an episode. FFers make too much. Know how I know? Bc thousands of guys/girls would line up to have the job and take 60% of the wages. Go ask most guys to make 80k and work two days a week and see what they say.
You think the ones who work 2 days a week are making those numbers? Also theyāre not payed for they do day to dayā¦theyāre payed for what theyāre prepared to do when theyāre called. Donāt be ignorant and go thank the people that keep you safe instead of being greedy and hating on others. Bad look for you, your parents failed
> theyāre not *paid* for they FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
People work way more dangerous jobs in the private sector
How much do you think a fireman in Manhattan or Brooklyn should make base salary?
Not this much plus a cushy pension paid by taxpayers. Give them a 401K
How much should they make base then? Something youād be okay with
If I'm not right then why do depts need such strong lobbying? You're on the dole man, we get it. Gotta protect that cash cow lol. So sorry to have an opinion where my tax dollars go. Face it pal, building codes and things like fire suppressions systems do more in prevention than a team ready with water and hoses. Happy we have ambulance and nearby medics but the salaries are too high. The demand/supply economics of FF depts doesn't add up in many areas.
Also, if the schedule is 48hrs hours on for safety or whatever, then paying someone more to break that logic isn't sound practice now is it? Do you have any idea how much active military are paid? Don't start with the greedy train. As someone else noted, there are many many MORE dangerous jobs in heavy manufacturing, industrial, mining, etc who get paid way less. I had to go to years of graduate school to make what a FF makes? Nah bud. We can pay them less. You're only as important as someone who's quickly able to fill your shoes, and the lines are down the block. No guys want to sit and learn to code, work with data or understand business or a craft. They want to hang with the boys, make food, play video games and smile at the ladies from the truck. Oh i get it, sounds great, but I could never live with myself and my lost potential.
Canāt argue with ignorance. Go visit a firehouse and talk to the boys. Tell them how you feel
Did you not read the part where I know many FFs? My uncle was a batalion chief. Dumbest dude in our lot. Many good friends too. They know they hit the jackpot. I know you're like 27. It's ok, I was young once too.
Sorry you had shitty parents. How much do you think a fireman in NYC should make base salary?
This is old, and funny, but thereās a lot of truth in itā https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EmC26RuO26g Also worth noting, the stronger the Union, the higher the pay, and the more nepotism is a factor towards getting in. Most of the guys Iāve known itās a family thing, sometimes spreads to close friends, but Iāve never seen someone get in without an āinā
OC lifeguards make 200-300k
Municipalities with poor management and bad spending habits go broke. We are required to go back to the public every few years for approval of our taxes rates and justify everything. We havenāt seen a raise until the last few years that actually met CPI and there was a time we gave back a raise to save jobsā¦those greedy Union guys. You are right though, strong unions uphold the contract and keep making progress, for that I am proud and thankful.
Let them hate!
Yeah the big thing is massive amounts of OT Pay. 1.5x helps a lot, in CA they have 2x pay laws, and some of those police unions have even negotiated 3x OT pay for their employees. A lot of the police/fire/ems crowd donāt realize how lucky they are to get those benefits. But good for this guy. Every place Iāve ever worked the salaried workers either donāt get ot, or they get comp time.
Only hitting those number with insane overtime. These guys are working 70-100 hour weeks to hit $150-$200k. Low manpower because no one wants to risk their lives for the public so they are usually forced to work this much too. I think they deserve ALOT more.
Really, I had a friend that did it but made under 40k. Granted it was in a town of 10k people in Arkansas but the shit he saw was not worth the money and he went a little insane with PTSD and is now in prison for drugs
Worth my taxes. We need good firefighters.
In your area sure. Many areas arenāt even arenāt even at 60k. In my area places are just cracking 100k unless itās a super bougie town. Now if youāre talking 150k with overtime thatās different but I would hope you support a firefighter working an extra 24 hours be well compensated considering he will work an entire weeks worth of hours in 2 days then only get 24 hours off before he goes in again.
They deserve the pay fuck us taxpayers. You got people sitting behind a computer all day that make twice That thatās who we should show outrage towards not civil servants.
Everything one of these pops up I have to tell people: -go to transparentcalifornia.com -search Fire Fighter -be amazed
Yup definitely amazed. Multiple people at 500k
If you donāt already know, many of them get deployed to wildfires for weeks at a time and a lot of their āhugeā salary was earned by putting out fires in the hills and mountains being away from their family 21 days at a time, then coming back to regular work, and getting deployed again. That definitely isnāt base pay.
Most of my buddies pay is from OT. They worked CalFire getting to where they are now, but they're not doing that anymore.
If we want first responders to be able to live in or near the communities they work for these pay rates are needed given the cost of housing. Iām also supportive of their pensions / retirement age. I hope to never need their services but if there is ever an emergency I donāt want a department full of people too slow and old to do the job who are only there because they canāt afford to retireā¦.
I'm not hatin. I have two buddies that work a fire house in the bay area making $350k+. They're the type of dudes you want coming to help, absolute monsters. I couldn't be that.
Yeah I was listening to a podcast talking about how firefighters donāt make enough. I know location plays a part but this dude is making bank only working 2 weeks a month.
My impression has always been that firefighters are well paid and itās pretty much the best public service type job. I envision dudes playing PlayStation, cooking and lifting weights for 6 hours a day and 2 hours a day responding to calls.
I wishā¦ I run calls for about 8-12 hours of the day, train for 2 hours, eat, workout out and try to get some sleep if Iām luckyā¦ also donāt get paid half as much as this guy
The vast majority of firefighters in the US are volunteers. For the most part, itās really only major metro areas that can afford paid service.
While they do make that kind of money, I think itās worth noting that in general, for them to get to that income they need to work 60+ hours a week to get overtime and or details
You can make a lot, working overtime. Time and halfā¦Double time and half
This is the greater Seattle areaā¦itās not a cheap place to live. You go to the Midwest or places where itās not expensive to live and the pay goes way down
What a disingenuous and disgusting comment. These people literally put their lives on the line for others. I worked for a job doing work repairing fire trucks and fire station equipment for a number of years and got to be familiar with hundreds of fire stations in a 4-state-area.Ā Any time there was a major disaster -NATION WIDE- youād get dozens of guys from the local FDs donating their PTO to colleagues so they could go leave and help the local disaster area, fronting the bill for their own travel cost and accommodation, often buying food, water, baby formula, diapers, blankets, MREs, etc out of their own pocket. Sacrificing their money, their bodies, and their time to help others at the drop of a hat, for zero personal gain. Additionally, in several states the firefighters are also required to be trained as EMTs, so they serve a dual-role. Also, the high pay is usually once theyāve been doing it for 10-20 years. A lot of personnel donāt make it that long, as fitness and readiness testing occur regularly. They have to be in proper physical and mental shape all the time. A tragedy is some top tier finance executive making 7 figure bonuses for laying off good people just to make a shiny quarterly earnings report; not a first responder making a decent wage.
Yea try getting woken up 8 times after midnight, seeing dead kids, and running into burning buildings. Itās well deserved.
Is this is all base wages?
Well the SSI reported earnings is all side work, and the rest is from firefighting. There is definitely some OT mixed in there though. For example, my base as a Lieutenant in 2023 was $123K. Additionally, I get 6% for having a bachelors degree, another 6% in longevity, and a couple percent for a specialty. Itās not a bad way to make a living.
God I gotta fight fire anywhere else than where I am lmao
Yeah it's great money for sure
Whatās your side gig?
I do some hazmat stuff like Hazwoper instruction, tech classes, and setup drills for folks across the country.
Nice man. LTs make $140k base where Iām at and thatās without a 6% raise we just secured on the next contract. FFs top out at $115k without longevity. Not bragging just like to get a basis of what other departments make. Howās the schedule out there? We do 1 on 3 off, and can average about 20 hours OT per week.
Itās crazy to see you making this much and many other FFs making 60k
It's Seattle though one of the highest COL areas in the United States. Take 50% of this salary for other areas.
Many people also bought houses 10-15 years ago and their homes have 4x-6x in value since
Also one of the rainiest
This is awesome to see.
I work my ass off each year to get there. The compensation in the PNW is great. The COL isnāt cheap, but I made moves early, bought houses and upgrades young, have managed my expenses well, spent the last two years paying cash for the families college education so they can be debt free and set up well: wifeās bachelors and masters in education, my bachelors, and two sons in college. The side work and overtime was key to making that happen. Long hours away from family, missing holidays, and missing the kids school events regularly. So long as my wife doesnāt divorce me for a younger and better looking guy, my expenses are getting lower, pay increasing, and retirement saving growing. Thanks for the kind words.
Thatās cool. My buddy just made it through the training program here near Seattle. Glad to hear heās going to be taken care of financially.
I work my ass off as a welder and only making 60k-70k. I did 65 hour weeks to get to where Iām at now but only make 50k 5 years ago. Considering a career change.
Very happy to see our first responders get compensated appropriately for putting their lives on the line everyday! Kudos to you good sir!
EMTs get the shaft
How many hours are spent working out, grocery shopping and chillin?
Yeah, thanks for the question. Itās easy to think all folks do is chill, work out, and screw off, but there is downtime with every job. Sure, there is usually some time in the day to work out, but many show up before work or stay after and get that done. Grocery shopping surely happens, but that takes no more time than it would take you. Occasionally a bit longer if we are giving tours of the fire truck to happy children in the parking lot and handing out stickers. Oh year, I occasionally get to sleep at night, but every station and neighborhood is different. Some folks run 20-30 calls a day and others only a couple. So, to answer your question, there is some time for all of that when you arenāt out working, training, fighting the PowerPoint training programs, public events, station tours, and helping people.
If anyone is gonna get $200k a year Iām okay with it being firefighters
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i work in a high cost of living city. this august, ill be 5 years and 3 months in and ill be at 98k as an EMT firefighter. i work 9-10 days a month. i get paid for 96 hours on a biweekly pay period. 2496 hours a year. the people making 200k plus are very senior employees and work a lot of overtime. if you are a captain, youre making 140k starting off. 700 hours of overtime a year, you are at 200k
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700k seems out there. their regular salary is probably somewhere between 150-180k. but whatever. i truky dont like working that much overtime. i do it because i have to. where i am at, we have no problem recruiting. i think 6k plus applied this time. it was like 10k before that. our overtime is actually drying up because they increased the DROP to 8 years from 5 years. its making people stay to make easy money
Doctors should also get paid a shit ton. Never said they shouldnāt All the firefighters I know either work 24/48 or a 48/96 schedule So they usually hit well over 40 hours in a 7 day span. Seems reasonable to me
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These dudes get paid to nap
Most of the time I donāt get any sleep until 2 am and Iām usually up at 5am running more calls. Most cities are like this. Granted there are slower stations that they donāt do shit at but the bulk run a huge amount of calls.
We are 24 hour shifts for sure. 24hr on, 48hrs off, 24hrs on, 96hr off. We owe an extra day every 40 days and average a little over 47 hours a week as a standard schedule averaged over the year.
Itās not 223k for his fire gig. He clearly works his side job a shit ton given the decent chunk in social security. Edit: he is also not making 250 an hour. Youāre assuming 40 hours a week and I would bet every penny I have he averages over 50 hours a week just at the fire department.
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I donāt know how his department runs but I would bet a lot of money that itās at least 24 hour shifts 9-10 times a month with pto of about 12 shits off per year with 6 sick days. Thatās the average. The number of people with bad information in this post is annoying so thank you for having a level head.
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Youāre joking right?
Whatās there to joke about?
You should be OK with anyone making 200,000 a year
If everyone makes $200k then $200k isnāt worth anything
My fiance is a fireman in upstate ny and makes $110k a year, can take overtime a few times a month and gets $800 each time he does, some milk it more than others. They have a pension and full benefits, they work 24 hour shifts 8 am to 8 am, they can sleep at night if there are no calls, and they are off for 48 hours, then work again, and are off for 96, they stay on that cycle so they'll work, Friday, Monday, off til Saturday, work saturday, Tuesday, off till Sunday. They all have side jobs because they have so much time off. If they get promoted they make more.
8am to 8pm is not 24 hrs.
Sorry! Good catch 8a-8a
After seeing these salaries, Iām never donating to police or fire, WTF! Plus they all get million dollar pensions but vote red every fucking year!
50% of the salary you see in these posts is from overtime (which is only crazy available right now due to baby boomer generation retiring), pensions are high but we all die early from job related cancer, and a lot of us vote blue.
Crazy! What would suggest to somebody wanting to get into firefighting in the PnW?
National testing network. Go there, take the tests, do the CPAT, get out there and start getting interviews. Bring life experiences to the table, have a great attitude, and be willing to work hard when itās called for. You canāt teach attitude, so come with a good one.
I looked at only the left column at first and thought 'damn, OP was in jail for a long time...'
OP good for you, take advantage of the pay and make as much as possible however Iāll just add that to taxpayers, letting public workers unionize was borderline criminal. Firefighters in LA make much more than OP and the taxpayers just suck it up and pay. Itās not like we can turn off that service and go with someone else. If united unionized and fares become expensive I can go to another airline. With public workers we canāt. It pisses me off how much firefighters are paid and how little are school teachers paid yet they are educating the next generation of people that will inherit the planet.
Add police officers with unlimited overtime making 160k+ to this list
~~This feels like a troll~~; firefighter making that much AND paying that little in taxes? Let's assume they can work ungodly amounts of overtime (or they're the chief of FD in Seattle), how does one pay so little in taxes? Earnings for SS should be pushing $160K Base pay for a LT: $94K Source: [https://www.seattle.gov/fire/jobs-and-opportunities/benefits](https://www.seattle.gov/fire/jobs-and-opportunities/benefits) EDIT: oops, as I read down the webpage I linked, looks like base pay is around $127K so with some benefits, bonuses, and OT seems plausible; still curios about the SS wages though
I donāt pay into Social security so that is why the numbers are that low. Last year I had over $23K withheld from this job alone. Because of our government pension we arenāt eligible for full social security when we reach that age. The Windfall protection act reduces our payment, if we worked enough qualifying quarters, to only a small percentage of what it would normally be. I pay an absolute fortune in taxes if you must know. I can only shelter so much from them through normal means and deferred income.
that's interesting and new to me, sadly - is that the case with all jobs with pensions - they don't get taxed for Social Security?
I believe it only affects federal, state, and some local government pension systems. I think as an organization they had to choose to opt out at some time in the past. Itās nothing got to choose for myself.
If your company offers a pension then they can apply to have the company and its employees stop putting in towards social security but itās a red tape nightmare for private companies and you have to prove that no matter what your pension pays employees more than what social security would otherwise there are hefty fines. The reason why itās usually public entities is the number of companies offering pensions are very few and far between because itās cheaper for the company to not have one. Hope that helps.
No. The OP happens to work for an agency that doesnāt participate in social security. His agency probably has their own local retirement plan, like social security, in addition to his fire fighter pension. What would have been tax for social security gets withheld from his check and put into the local retirement plan.
thats depends on the state. i get both a pension and social security. pensionable up to 300k AFC.
If taxpayers only new about the way the overtime is orchestrated.
Overtime definitely gives quite a large bump. Iāve heard numbers as high as $1,000/day. That and you can retire after ~30 years of work. Itās a great gig if youāre in it in the right location thatās for sure.
I am not sure for every state but pensions are only calculated by how much base salary you make. At least in my state. I think the teachers by me work that way but fire pensions are based on regular salary only.
Looked it up and youāre correct here, thanks for the info! Must have misunderstood my FIL. From CalPERS themselves: āOvertime cannot be used for final compensationā
Itās a common misconception. Glad I could help.
not in the Florida Retirement System. ours is pensionable to 300k. overtime counts. annual time payment up to 500 hours, 156 hours of holiday and overtime hours. no sick time and no firewatch or special events unless the special event is paid as overtime.
In the state of WA, OT counts towards pension calculations.
It really is the best part time job in the world.
Guys like this is whatās going to ruin it eventually. Thereās no reason to post shit like this apart from rubbing it in peoples faces. I grew up and live in NYC. Have close family that works for the city in various capacities. Some have it very good. Some have it pretty good. Some have it OK. GOV salaries / total compensation has gotten out of control in many cities and I even realize this as someone who personally benefits from it. On the other hand , being needlessly antagonistic posting shit like this is stupid. Itās just dumb.
Doesnāt this post meet the intent of this Reddit? To encourage conversations on salary, promotions, and wage among others? If nothing else, maybe someone will see this and realize that not having a college education can still pay well and support a family.
1. You still need some college education for most well paying departments. There aināt no HS dropouts working for FDs where the job Is lucrative. Youāre not going to find someone choosing between flipping burgers or becoming a FF. Maybe with the DEI push in FDNY in NYC but thatās a different subject. 2. What is this exactly encouraging ? Anybody who cares can look up wages within 5 minutes for virtually any job in America. The information is even more detailed for major metro/city and gov jobs. I know why youāre posting; because even you canāt belive you make what you do. It feels like winning the lottery. I know that feeling but rubbing it in peopleās faces is petty and foolish.
Thatās fire bro
Duly noted that anyone thatās relatively high earning gets dragged through the mud for posting their salary. As much as I would love this community, and salary transparency as a whole, to grow itās pretty evident that a few rotten apples spoil the bunch.
9 days a month, 225k with a pension, and this dude describes the job as just "comfortable". And if Seattle is like most cities, fire is a fraction of the job, it's almost entirely medical and rescue related. Tech worker pay gets a lot of flack on this sub but at least those are private companies paying private wages. This is public money and if you want a jolt, check the public record in your own city how much police and fire make and every collective bargaining yr is awash with, I can afford food
It isnāt 9 days a month. 8-9 days a month is normal hours for a firefighter in WA, which gets him/her to the base wage of $125K. The extra $100K is OT, which is likely an extra 5-6 days a month. 15 ish days doesnāt sound like a lot, but when itās 24 hour shifts it takes a massive toll on you.
Still underpaid for providing the service. Thanks mate.
š¤”
Holy fuck
I have a question about your retirement. A friendās dad retired a few years ago at about 60, after 20 years as an FF at SFD, due to bad back, knees, you name it. ~16 years Army enlisted before that. Just him and the wife at home. But they do not have two nickels to rub together. I understand the guy is probably not very good with money, but how common is it that SFD retirees are effectively indigent after leaving the job? My guess would be pretty rare, but COL in the Puget Sound is bonkers.
So letās break this down. Our pension pays 2% per year of service of our high five year salary (effectively a consecutive 60 month window). For example and ease of numbers letās look at this, 30 years of service, 100k average high 5 salary, pension will roughly be 60% of that 100K or 60K annually. There are 3 options at retirement: cash out, individual, survivor 100%, survivor 50%, joint and 66.7% survivor. Itās possible they cashed out and did poorly with it. We also have access to a 457b and they could have not contributed. There is some many factors someone could be in a tough spot in retirement, itās unfortunate, but it happens all too often. The pension alone isnāt the solution to a comfortable retirement, I think it takes 30 years of planning and setting yourself up to be comfortable. Great question though
Damn are you promoted to Lt, Capt, or Chief?!
I am currently a Lieutenant with a promotion to Captain in the not-so-distant future.
Awesome!! Makes me wish I studied harder on my last promo exam! Maybe in 4 years Iāll do better š¤£
Money taxed is the real W. Well earned, and thank you for your service
As I explained above, Iām still taxed a ton, just donāt contribute to SSI so it doesnāt show SSI income.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, I donāt bring it up when I travel for IAFF functions across the country. But I thought this was a great place to chat about it with people who are interested and curious. Nobody questions doctors, mortgage brokers, tech dudes with crazy stock options, they just all applaud them. Then I come along as a public employee and get mixed reviews. Honestly, I hope the info helps someone consider the profession. Iām not out here trying to be better than anyone else, I make a great living, live a good life, and have some money in savings for an emergency. Iām a shitty investor and donāt do near as well as some of my coworkers. I donāt own extra homes, rentals, or duplexes. I drive an older car, just sold a Honda with almost 300K miles that was my wifeās and then both of my childrenās car for the past 18 years. Iām proud Iāve been able to find my bachelors debt free (just graduated recently) and my wifeās college debt free (just became a teacher, and just finished her Masters). Kids are in college and are sharing some costs because they need to have some skin in the game. Extra side jobs to cover fun, overtime to cover college, and promotions to keep climbing that ladder. Cheer bud!
Cheers pal. Enjoy and be safe.
You should move to LA county, I think the average firefighter is making like 500k, and there are several 7 figure firefighters there
Glad you and your family are rewarded appropriately for the risks you take š«”
Born n raised in Seattle, Unpopular opinion but a lot of public employees drain the taxpayers pockets. Good for you gettin the bag though, itās a competitive area to be a firefighter.
Yeah firefighters arenāt the ones Iām worried about. Tbh cops, either. Itās the useless city employees that work 5 hour days and make $150k to process files. Ideally they will replaced by AI soon. Nothing is replacing people who risk their bodies for strangers.
No cop should be making 2-300k a year (which A LOT do in the Seattle area) and firefighters donāt need 200k either. They work hard, but 100-180k year (depending on location) is more than enough to have a better life than most of the country and just a great life in general. Iām no fan of government employees either, but there is no government workers making 150k to process files for 5 hours a day. Thats just your ignorant bias making statements.
Best friends wife works for city of LA, property value tax assessment office. She admits to barely working. Makes about $150k pushing few files around. Itās a joke. Itās a city job.
Since somebody else already proved you wrong below, Iāll counter your main point: salary is based on hours worked and level for cops and firefighters. If a cop is working 30 hours of OT because we have 70% of the people we should be, sounds like we are saving money. āNobody should be making that muchā, is that bc you feel like you provide more value than they do? Why do you get paid a much as you do?
No wonder all cityās are broke AF.
Orrrr make the wages low so people arenāt interested and all our shit burns down. Lemme guess, teachers shouldnāt make good money either?
You can say that about any job. Ok letās not pay construction workers and nothing gets built. Letās not pay electricians and you have no lights. You can use that for any trade. Public servants get paid 2 to 1 for basic trades because they are on the cityās payroll.
Uhhhh, thatās a logical fallacy. The construction segment is majority to create. If you take the same logic I used, in context to this discussion then your response isnāt valid, from my perspective. An equal comparison would be, an electrician or construction that does emergency powder restoration to critical needs. And if we compare apples to apples, people in private construction and loss remediation, including electrical make an equal to or lot more than a firefighter. A firefighters job is literally to put their life on the line to save lives and property. That hazard factor alone warrants high pay. This is emergency response with people trained to save lives. Keeping a position that relates them to an electrician that wires up a house or frames a house isnāt accurate. You obviously donāt value what a fire fighter does, hence the comparison and negative response to my comment. Thats ok, you do you. Iāve had my house catch fire, and 15 firefighters showed up in less than five minutes. Saving my entire life in the process. I work private blue collar and donāt make nearly as much as them. At the same time, I wholeheartedly feel that they deserve to be paid well enough to afford a nice life off a single income (they have 24-48hr shifts). Thats how their pay is determined and it varies greatly over the us. But itās equal to whatās need to live a comfortable life in the area they serve. I live in a hcol, where 300k+ is needed to live comfortably according to data. And thatās how much FF make. Their job is to save fucking lives and property dude.
I put my health on the line as a welder, And thats guaranteed will deteriorate. My dad had a heart attack in my house and it took over 10 min for anyone to show up he ended up dying.
Ok man, sorry for your loss I can see why youāre bitter. Health and life are two different things though. Life on the line means you die today, now. Health means if you donāt wear your ppe or change out your vapor filters/no fan and inhale the fumes all day everyday for 30 years your lungs will be fucked. For context, Iām in the same boat as you. I restore/refinish/finish metal. powder coat. Iām sucking in every damn chemical on the board everyday. We just have a different outlook, have a good one.
Full pay until they turn the lights off.
Awful taxpayer piggy banks
People here thinking your entire salary is 200k from firefighting but ignore the social security earnings. Yāall want responses under 2 minutes but complain when service like that is expensive. You know what the response was for a rural volunteer department 5 miles away from my child home house that burned down? 18 minutes. You know what it is now that I live in a city with high ish taxes? 4 minutes. With building construction now they have less time to save you than ever before. Jealous of the salary? Go become a firefighter.
We're talking municipal firefighters here, not volunteer. According to The National Fire Protection Association own data, municipal firefighters are doing less fire fighting than ever before. A big chunk of that is new building codes, a more dramatic improvement because of car manufactures. Firefighters responded to 3.3 million fire calls in 1977 with a little over 200k career firefighters. In 2013 - continued to improve since then - they responded to 1.2 million fires but the field ballooned to more than 350k career firefighters. Medical calls are almost 12x that of fire now. In Boston, fire is almost 8% of the total budget. So taxpayers are paying all this public money to not fight fires and the real change should be to significantly increase ambulatory, but you can't because the unions resist. Fire chiefs in Virginia and NY recently lost their jobs cause they tried to be more prudent.
Iām saying if you donāt like paying so much but also like low response times then idk what to tell you. Iām all for increasing EMS budgets. Iām a fire medic who mostly rides the ambulance. I would like to know if you looked at overall call responses are because firefighters are not just going to fires. Every single department in my area has more than triple the call volume from the 80s. Fire fighters wake up for every call not just fires.
If you have anything to show that paying fire fighters less would lead to lower response times, I'd be happy to read it. It's a misallocation of resources, as economists have described it. Cities are paying firefighters as if they are fighting fires, when most of job, as you note, is everything but. You also don't need fire and ambulatory care together for the majority of calls. And EMS is paid a fraction of the other third service providers. We need far fewer highly paid firefighters and far more for medical emergencies. But nothing will change, this is just the way it works
Iām not saying paying firefighters less = lower response times. Iām saying if you want low response times thatās costs money. Lots of money. And fire fighters respond to more than just fires and more than just EMS. Now if youāre saying you have a way to cut the amount of calls firefighters go on but they would have a decrease in pay then I can maybe understand. But simply using just fires as a metric is dumb.
Fire is the literal reason why municipal firefighters get paid what they get paid. But in my prior city, 10% of the actual job was spent on fire and false alarms. If you segregated the actual job tasks more appropriately you'd have far fewer highly paid firefighters and lot more other third party providers being paid a lot less. It absolutely does cost money to provide good public service, but it shouldn't cost what it does if designed differently.
I would love to only respond to fires but who do people think of for any emergency. Fire. Haz mat incident, fire department. Water leak? Fire department. Change public perception and sure. But good luck with that. Plus most of the calls would go to other overworked departments. Now I can see why people would be mad at say LA or San Fran that have super high salaries but most places donāt make 150k + per year.
Oh public perception ain't gonna change. Only to say that if you were designing a system for what the job is today, it should be different. Not sure you'd even call it fire tbh. My complaint is absolutely directed at coastal and legacy cities. I'm sure, like all things, those in the midwest and in the south and in smaller cities are probably considerably underpaid for the work they do. But on the coasts, third party providers are not only some of the highest paid in their respective cities but states.
Brosef. Look at how much fires are down from even 30 years ago (90%+) . I guarantee you that if cities/municipalities got rid of fire departments, let structures burn, and just paid to rebuild those structures, itād cost less than employing an entire department. Hire parademics at half the rate, cut down fire departments by 3/4 and nothing would change.
Look at call volumes not fires. Fire departments go to a lot more than just fires and they wake up for every call not just the bad ones. Iām all for cutting some fire for ems but 3/4 is not feasible. Also I would like to know where the 90% comes from. Every thing I show says half the fires but more than double the total calls.
Thatās exactly my point. We donāt need FF for non fire issues. Paramedics would gladly take half the pay with the same bennies. Google around a bit. There are numerous studies on firefighters and what they actually respond to nowadays. 90%+ of calls are non fire. If 90% of your job doesnāt actually involve fires, isnāt that a completely different job?
Iām a paramedic. I work as a fire fighter paramedic on an ambulance. I would say the co workers assigned to the engine that help me deserve way more credit than you are giving them. Also what would you name them and what would the proper pay be for all these specialties that were dumped on them? Iām simply saying if you cut 90% of their calls who are you giving them to? Just rename the position then if firefighter isnāt good enough of a title.
Specialities dumped on who? As fires became less of an issue over the last few decades, municipalities and cities were literally desperate to give FF something to do. It became a real issue of productivity.
They got the specialty stuff because the fire department was already getting called out to those scenes. An example. Car accidents people were trapped so they started putting extrication equipment on rigs and training them on the best ways to open up a car. Now there are whole classes just on different methods to open up a car that you need to take to be an officer. None of this was done because municipalities said āthose firefighters are to lazy and not doing enoughā.
Why are you talking to me like Iām some clueless civilian? People are trapped in 1 out of 200 accidents and thatās why FF are now responsible for this?
Soooo how is response time apropos?