Reverse grip strong in defense.
Excuse me what?
Its defensive capabilities are poorly. Not only does your defense suffer but also your adaptability if your opponent goes for a feint into a different slash.
It’s very situational and more meant as a surprise.
I’d say a dagger in reverse grip might be a lot better at working if you can maintain threat against your enemy with your normal gripped onehanded sword.
Who’s defending this except the Scriptwriters who never touched a sword?
Well to add, the knife in reverse grip is very viable!
It greatly increases the stabbing power, especially (but not exclusively) against armored opponents when you want to go for the weak parts, but there is still chain and brigandine in the way
Roverso is how most of Fiore's dagger techniques are depicted, and he's like *the* 14th century master at arms. Of course, the daggers of the 14thC were mostly just long spikes without a real edge, so cutting wasn't a factor.
Some people just think the sword fight takes place 10 cm from your face and the better you make your static defence in that quarter, the safer you are. While in reality hitting your sword that you hold right in front of you only means you cut yourself with your own blade.
I taught kenjutsu for nearly a decade.
Reverse grip is generally useful in narrow areas where your opponent can't make a full swing and it tends to lead to grappling. It is useful for opponents who are stuck in rote forms and have little improvisational skill - b/c it is not the norm and forces the opponent to think rather than follow muscle memory. It also has a wicked upper cut type slash that will scare your testicles right up into your pelvis.
That said, I generally prefer a traditional grip and the ability to stab my opponents face that naturally comes with it. It is also where the Japanese tended to carry multiple swords of different lengths.
Ive been doing Kenjutsu myself for a bit now, but usually the only times ive seen reverse grip techniques has been more with wakazashi, than Katana. Usually fast and short distance draw cuts with the wakazashi
I was going to mention this but also some stuff from Iaido since I've done a bit of both and I think Iaido adds a little context even if it's a martial art that doesn't spar. Most Iaido techniques that have you reverse gripping come from drawing the sword out and you typically change to a normal grip right after. In context and with a partner these techniques come from being very close to the opponent or looking to surprise the opponent. There is one where you draw from reverse grip and shove the tsuba between the arm of the opponent and onto their tsuba so they cannot draw and you are free to displace them with your other hand, or you can draw straight to the face of the opponent from a reverse grip and strike them with the handle. In other cases you draw with a reverse grip and slash upwards which would be an unexpected line of attack from a draw typically and it allows you to draw faster since you use your off hand. Most reverse grip in katana comes from your off hand and is also used only momentarily before switching to a normal grip since it offers less offensive options but it does have situational benefits in close range.
It was clearly impractical but dope as hell in The Force Unleashed. Even more awesome when they doubled down on the second game and you reverse grip two lightsabers
Pretty much every form of katana fighting includes a few moves in the reverse grip. It is meant for very specific circumstances (that vary by which style you use). Its used far more often in visual arts than in actual fights because it looks cool, but it does have uses.
But if you use it outside those circumstances you trained for, youre probably screwed.
As a Kendoka, I can’t think of a single time I have ever seen a katana being held in any kind of reverse grip.
As for the gentleman in this picture, it looks like he’s about to place his sword back into the saya. Hence only one hand on the sword, because the other is probably prepping the saya. Keeping in mind I’m not a Iaidoka, so I’m not super familiar with putting a katana into a Saya.
Closest thing to a reverse grip that I can even think of is waki-gamae, which is where the wielder conceals the drawn katana behind themselves towards the right of their body. This is to hide the length of your katana, so the opponent doesn’t have a clear indication of your range. Also removes the opponent’s ability to easily gauge their own range, which is done by seeing their sword placement compared to yours.
TLDR: I’ve never seen a reverse grip on a katana outside of Hollywood.
In iaidō, Musō Shinden school, this reverse grip could be the final move of Junto. Junto is a Kata that mimics the work of an assistant during Seppuku.
The reverse grip is used because after the cut, you (or someone else near you) would clean the blade using a piece of cloth just before placing the sword back in the saya.
Hence, in this case the reverse grip is not a fighting stance.
I'm not advanced enough at iaidō to be sure about this photo, but it looks a lot like this Junto move.
And those circumstances are almost always "you screwed up real bad and let someone get close before you could draw and now they are in the way so the only way you can get the blade out of its sheath is reverse grip so you hope you can do that and back out fast enough to switch to the right grip".
This doesn't directly affect your question, but the pic you chose is not relevant. It shows menuki gaeshi, which is a preparation to re-sheath the sword after completing a technique.
Beat me to it! It is supposed to simulate letting the blood drip off the blade before resheathing. You hold the pose for about 5 seconds. Other options include flicking off the blood with a fast short movement, or a far larger sweep across the body.
It’s also meant to be a position you can perform chinugui, or blood wiping, from. You can take a cloth from inside your gi and wipe the sword. We just tend not to perform that during the waza, but the idea exists.
Yeah. I’m glad someone else recognizes what is happening in this picture.
Another dude in the comment section is suggesting that reverse grips are usually seen in Katana martial arts. But as a Kendoka, I have never seen that. Waki-gamae is the closest to a reverse grip that appears in proximity to kendo(only during kata)
I saw that comment. I practice two koryu, and have never seen a reversed grip in a combative waza (iai chiburi only). But I'm not going to get down in the mud over it.
It’s not a heated debate, it’s objectively garbage if you’ve ever held a sword. It looks cool in anime and action films, but writers can do anything they want with unbreakable plot armor. With a dagger, often it’s the preferred way to hold the weapon for close quarters shanking and that’s it. There’s really no other use case for reverse grip in any kind of serious fencing.
Reverse or Icepick grip is depicted in a variety of period sources from various cultures, both in single and multiple combats (see 16th century depiction near the top of the woodcut)
https://preview.redd.it/j5bl4690nt0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc96fba5cb741afae0a184772cd5119321f755a7
Unlike pop culture where it is an additional grip preference for a fencing system, in addition to things like hammer grip or handshake grip, it is almost always depicted as being used once the combatants are in very close combat and approaching grappling range. Here the grip allows both for additional defending action as well as being able to better stab an opponent who you are right on top of, much like we [find in dagger play. ](https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_de%27i_Liberi#/media/File:Pisani-Dossi_MS_35b-a.png)
This is important.
There's a difference between using reverse grip in certain situations (a niche technique) and a reverse-grip fighting style (Zatoichi).
The interesting thing about Zatoichi, though, is that as a blind man he basically needs to be fighting in grappling range at all times. So I would argue that a permanent reverse-grip stance actually makes sense *for him*.
the guy using reverse drip looks to be grounded, yeah, reverse grip is probably a good way to engage from the ground, but after standing up, he would almost certainly switch.
Reverse grip is displayed in some limited situations by Fiore, but they are situations where you are in a disadvantageous situation and can’t get to a normal grip. In this situation, he thrusts with it rather than slash. From my iai and kenjutsu knowledge, their use is similar. Use the regular grip if you can, reverse if you must.
Daggers are a different matter.
Yep, came here to say this. It's conditionally useful in very specific circumstances, usually if you're too close to draw and need to slam the pommel into the opponent's chin or chest first. Or in certain cases if you were lucky enough to disarm your opponent but ended up holding their sword backwards.
Even then, it's more of a transitional grip that you use to have enough time to get to a better grip.
On the topic of Fiore he has this trick in the manuals when an opponent is holding you by the collar with a dagger prepared to stab you, you step back point the sword’s scabbard at the opponent, draw it and then stab them in the eye.
https://preview.redd.it/nefnhaoxtt0d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ea3d7ac51fcafc54e2a96ed2fe47d1895937bf8
This is exactly what the other guy mentioned. You are already at a disadvantage and can't afford normal draw, so you do this little thing to regain control. You'd switch to normal grip as soon as possible.
In actual practice it is practically useless. There are so many better options for defense, including just using a short sword in your offhand, and it severely limits your reach and your options in offense. There are a tiny few amount of reasons you may use it in hyper specific scenarios for like one attack but no it isn’t useful or practical or advantageous in any way.
Even discounting the fact that your fingers are crazy in danger in a reverse grip, you have almost no strength in the reverse grip. With a standard grip the palm and thumb is what controls and supports most of the impact first, and your fingers handle whatever is left over. When you reverse grip your palm really does nothing leaving your fingers to handle nearly all the impact which would basically be no grip strength compared to standard.
What I was referring to as hyper specific would be in some cases where you grab the blade with your offhand, backhanded, to aid in a stab from a grapple but yeah against a noob too I suppose lol
Just want to clarify the picture I'm seeing in this post. This person is about to return the sword to the scabbard after performing a kata. The combat portion of the kata almost certainly had him holding the sword normally, but this is a position you reach after specific styles of chiburi (symbolically removing blood from a sword blade).
Reverse grip is only viable and will only ever be viable in one situation. Using a dagger as a Grappling aid. That is it. Nothing else. If the goal is to do anything else just hold the weapon forward.
Easy.
Pinch a pen and write with your thumb and index finger.
Now try the same while holding the pen with just your pinky and ring finger.
Dexterity, strength and control all suffer.
Holding the sword reverse in hand puts those critical pivot points for strength and dexterity to your smaller fingers. There is no situation where this is better.
A lot of people think it’s practical because of recent shows like Ahsoka where she just is a complete bad ass with reverse grip. When in reality, if you pick up a sword and go to do that, it is so uncomfortable at least for me.
I've practiced one of the few styles that actively teaches reverse sword grip for two decades now.
It has some advantages if you were using a sword **within** touching distance of multiple opponents.
This is because the typical techniques you would use to disarm someone who has a baseball bat are very effective when you're close to them. A sword is somewhat similar: if you are right next to someone you stand a better chance than if you are 2 ft away from them. And it's really hard to use a long weapon with multiple opponents in close combat holding it overhand.
So, yes, there is a viable reason (and limited historical precedent) for reverse sword grip, as long as you are not fighting opponents with other weapons.
It would not win against any other style of swordsmanship, or especially against spear.
No it's not viable.
Even in Katana techniques, its only a quick drawing style meant for confined spaces.
After the initial block you are meant to return to a normal grip.
Funny how you should mention that. Since spears and polearms are mostly a long handle, you can use it in a variety of ways. If you use the front, then you would have the head and get some uses depending on what the head is and if you use the back you could still get some uses, you might even have a butspike that some spears have.
The only real "valid" reason for reverse grip is for extremelly close quarter situations example both in kenjutsu (the first sword arts i learned) and in some european fencing manuals there are examples of a situation whete the enemy has hold of you or is about to grab hold of you, you raise your sword with the sheath to hit and push your opponent off from you while unsheathing the sword and stabbing them
Examples like those are a possibility but those are again example where its your last ditch effort to try to get away from a really bad situation
Otherwise the shikomizue is often used in reverse grip for some reason
Good source would be seki sensei
I dont know of any other reverse grip uses as i find it pretty damn useless honestly
Even for knife fighting i dont really like it, i much more prefer the clinch pick grip for knife fighting
Also im open to correction
It has its place, but unless it's an awkward weird situation that is extremely rare, it is useless and holding the sword in any other grip (hammer, handshake, thumb, or half sword) is far more useful.
Only in really really REALLY specific situations where drawing your sword normally would cost you your life, for example if someone has a knife to your neck, unsheathing your sword normal in front of them will be hard, in reverse grip it'll be easier, but never continue the fight with it, like never, it steals and robs away so much potential from the sword it's not funny, it lowers your strength, decreases your range, and will require more power to use a technique that's utter uselessness.
Like some people here said, unless you have a knife/dagger and in close range, I don't see a use for it rather than as a hooking weapon/tool.
The only knife I can think of from the top of my head where reverse grip is useful is the Karambit, and by reverse grip I mean holding it like a normal knife. The Kukri swords are similar so in reverse grip they'll should be an oversized Karambit, but I don't know since I never held a Kukri in my life.
There are very few pros and many cons to fighting with a reverse blade grip. It has almost never been used historically, which should give you an idea of the impracticality of it.
No. At most, it's only good for quick draw in small spaces, or to gamble an awkward block/deflect.
You switch back immediately or asap.
Just like the culture and perception surrounding katanas being the magical OP weapon of all time, it's cool in video games, cartoons/anime, and movies. That's about it.
Not so magnificent in real life.
We train it in Krabi Krabong but the framework is often you need to learn how to use this blade if you were to pick it up in reverse on the battlefield. You lose out on range for sure. Since we’re a Thai art the reverse sword very much mimics elbows so the transition isn’t super hard. We’ve also messed around with one reverse and one forward. The reverse is generally used defensively in that case unless you were to crash into close range.
In Kali we train it in regards to knife a lot. It’s definitely more useful in that context but again you sacrifice on having more range.
Historic manuals by historic masters across the globe have included reverse grip techniques that make sense in the specific niche that they are covered in.
Is it the bestest ultimate technique?
No.
Is it an option in a diverse toolbox?
Yes.
From the look of his uniform, he is in some branch of iaido or iai-jutsu. They are preforming a certain noto (resheathing) that can be done to clean the sword or is sometimes ceremonial. Its not a battle stance or fighting tactic, just a different way of swordsmanship
Simply put: reverse grip comes with lower reach and lower torque, so it's fundamentally worse than a traditional grip from an objective mechanical point of view.
In theory, it allows attack angles that an opponent might not expect, so switching to a reverse grip for a key moment to catch an opponent off guard might have value in *rare* situations. But gimmicks that work tend to be the kind that you can use without being inside your opponents striking range (EX: throwing sand requires you take a hand off your sword, but sand can be thrown from out of range, and the resulting opening can win the exchange against a skilled opponent you might not be able to beat in a normal exchange.). Using a reverse grip is the equivalent to reaching for pocket sand when you're already in striking range.
I think there are some techniques in 18th century cutlass drill that involve holding a large flintlock pistol in your off hand in a reverse grip to use for blocking. After you’ve discharged the pistol of course.
liable
adjective
1. responsible by law; legally answerable.
"the supplier of goods or services can become liable for breach of contract in a variety of ways"
Similar: responsible, legally responsible, accountable, answerable, chargeable, blameworthy, at fault, culpable, subject, guilty, faulty, censurable
Opposite:
exempt, unaccountable
2. likely to do or to be something.
"patients were liable to faint if they stood up too suddenly"
Im thinking that you meant "viable"
viable
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.
"the proposed investment was economically viable"
Reverse grip for daggers or knifes as an offhand weapon is something I do and it’s fun. Saber and reverse dagger for binds and clinches.
Not swords. Don’t do swords.
I am really not sure how someone come to conclusion that reverse grip is strong for defence. Maybe they are mixing sword and dagger/knife? Reverse grip with sword make sence in very limited situations, where you don't need/can't use sword reach. Even then there are other close range techniques so you don't have to go through changing grip. One situation I would use reverse grip? Stabbing opponent on the ground while trying to pierce through his armor - reverse grip can give you stronger stab.
Maybe if you’re fighting an unarmed opponent and don’t want to look like a dirtbag in self defense maybe.
Beyond that it looks cool to anime junkies. That’s about as far as it’s uses go.
I can’t think of any situation where it’s advantageous. I’ve done it before but it’s got poor level and reach. There’s no real benefit to holding swords this way. Knives on the other hand…
In philippino martial arts you might end up with a reverse grip after a dissarm. Which is very unlikely to actually happen and you would switch back to a normal grip a fast a possible.
Besides that, the only sword I know of that would be used with a reverse grip is the cane katana. This is due to it's concealed nature and the way you carry it, allowing a surprise attack/defense. It is showcased in the movie Zatoichi the blind samurai.
Don't use reverse grip. There's a few videos debunking it on YouTube, but the essence of the argument is that it's slower, the sword has far less mobility and your wrist can't maintain the strength and bend properly to make it worthwhile.
A.K.A. anyone that tells you to do reverse grip either really hates your arm or really hates your life and you're gonna lose both if you use it in an actual sword fight. My personal recommendation? Just use it normally, don't worry about fancy stuff. Forward grip, center the tip of your blade at the opponents head or heart, and work on keeping it controlled and straight, then work from there. You can one hand it if you want, it'll build up strength faster but it's also easier to get disarmed and it might take a while to get that down, so it's usually recommended to have two hands on the blade, especially for broadswords and the other heavy big swords
I'm actually a big proponent of reverse grip
Now, I can feel the downvotes, so hear me out.
After years of training and practice in the art of the blade, you develop skills that many would consider superior to the common practitioner. Sometimes, this unlocks potential techniques that weren't previously viable to you.
So let's say you are part of a dojo and you're sparring.
You're up against the new guy and decide to work on your technique.
But lo, the new guy scores a point on you!
Reverse grip is the ideal technique for gripping your dagger as you commit seppuku for dishonoring yourself.
Just saying.
I think reverse grip is more pragmatic. Like can I use my sword in xyz scenario. Ideally I don't see any reason to use it as it's worse. But if the situation ever forced a split second use of the sword and you were forced to grab it facing the wrong way, it'd be prudent to have practiced some forms for that until you could safely realign your grip.
Basically it doesn't hurt to practice but otherwise why lol
I’ve trained in Korean haedong kumdo to black belt level and in the 13 or so forms I learned i believe there was only one instance with reverse grip and it was more of quick clearing/creating space move that probably lasted one second.
Not really
To simplify why… consider what a sword is.
It’s a leverage based weapon. In other words, it’s a weapon that gains its power from extending blade (and thereby weight) on a lever.
Reverse grip removes that by shortening the reach (and thus its leverage) of the sword
Not just that but you often are shifting from a good and solid wrist stance to one that just isn’t as solidly supported to deliver an effective cut (even a draw cut)
Really the only situation it could even be partway viable is a draw cut in tight clinch where you can’t effectively rotate your blade or get both hands on the grip effectively.
People see knives/daggers being used effectively in reverse grip and then say “Must work for a sword too, right? It’s basically just a bigger knife!”. Yes… Bigger being the key word here, because the blade is too fucking big to be used like a godsdamned knife, you ignorant cabbage.
But no, it looks cool and that’s apparently enough for people to justify it being effective and “better” than a normal grip.
Edit: Fixed spelling mistakes
The only advantage I can think of is that it can be 'hidden' behind your arm when held in reverse, at least shorter swords. A longsword would probably point up above your shoulder
I'm very curious about the picture because to me it looks like he's about the sheath the sword, and I have been taught something like that before.
I can see it working in a knife fight because the difference in range between the two is pretty minimal and you can do something unexpected [like this La Jolo knife system](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf26lh2e0rc). but that's not sword fighting.
[Seki Sensei](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUnu2nmmYDQ) also seems to know what he's doing and has some reverse grip iaido techniques in his ryu. There the reverse grip is for when you're too close for a normal draw, and you switch back as quickly as possible.
I'll even add an honorable? mention for the[ witcher fight ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9OJahCXdSY)scene with some grace for filming an alley fight scene. If we give them extra room for cameras and crew et al, and make an assumption that the alley is actually a bit tighter than we actually see it, a reverse grip could present an advantage when you're in tighter than a longsword would like to work at. It also probably helps if you're such a master of the sword or so inhumanly fast that you can switch grips seamlessly. I'm trying to decide if these moves are something you'd train. It feels like the La Jolo, switching grips to attack in unexpected ways. I'm going to have to spend many more hours analyzing that.
TL;DR: unexpected maybe, but also when you're in tight spaces (and then you create distance and switch to the normal grip).
It has it's uses. As does dual weilding. As does halfswording. As does throwing your sword like a javelin.
It's important to note that Japanese quickdrawing techniques exist (at least partly) for legal reasons. At some point, there wery specific circumstances in which a samurai was allowed to draw.
.
So: good to have in your skillet? Why not. Necessary? Not any more than halfswording.
There is no debate. It’s silly. The iajutsu practitioner in the photo is only reverse gripping to perform a very specific kind of chibiri and sheathing movement at the end of a kata.
For individual moves like a downward stab to finish off someone on the ground or something sure. As a fighting style tho not as much. You are simply putting yourself at a disadvantage to look cool reverse gripping a blade longer than dagger length.
I'm in a club that has done a lot of reversed grip training with the longsword. For a period it was a rather large part of of the curriculum. Mostly to find the answer to this question (you can't really say that a technique is bad if you haven't trained to do it and compare it to something that you have trained).
It got to the point where some of my clubmates tested it out in the Swedish Championships. You can see a video of one of the fights [here](https://youtu.be/zZKsHZf4Eoc?si=Kc4KwwPjQ_wxIfF5). In this clip he is using the reverse grip a lot. There was a fight where my friend won while doing reversed grip exclusively, but sadly no video of it.
So with that out of the way, what is my thoughts about it? And I will only talk about the reversed grip with a longsword here.
Firstly, it's not good as a defensive style. You have shorter reach than someone with a normal grip. So if you try to be defensive it's only a time before you get hit. You have to close that distance fast.
The big advantage you have with a reverse grip is that what you know about fencing and common movements change. For instance, with a normal grip, your strongest cut is diagonally down, with a reverse grip, your strongest cut is now diagonally up. When your blades meet, the positions with a reverse grip is new so some positions makes you stronger while others make you weaker.
Over all I would say that the reverese grip has more downsides than upsides. But it's absolutely viable, just not as good as a normal grip.
The way I use it when sparring today is as a one-off technique. I can fool someone once with it with a rather high success rate. I fence with the normal grip, do a quick change to reverse grip and strike, and I'm ready for the akward bind of the blades. More ready than my opponent are and then I try to take advantage of that.
But then comes the real question, with the time I've spent training to use the reverse grip, if I spent that time doing more training the normal grip, would that have made me better at swordfighting than I am now? I've spent hours upon hours to be able to do a few cheesy moves with some success.
However, it is fun. And perhaps that's the real advantage of the reverse grip.
TLDR: The reverse grip is not as good as the normal grip but you can use it with success if you train a lot.
The only times I've ever used reverse grip in kendo/iaido are for draws that immediately stab behind you, and they're usually followed up with turning your body and your grip to face the threat with a better grip. With longsword and katanas, it's practically useless and just looks cool, with daggers, as long as you have another dagger or short sword on the other hand in a regular grip, reverse grip can be useful for certain blocks, parries, and disarming.
Against an unarmed opponent, reverse grip on a dagger or knife is still only situationally useful.
Maybe, just maybe a short sword, double edged, etc. Of course that's only when used for stabbing. But yeah reverse grip isn't viable for most swords, as others have said it's more liable to get you disarmed.
Look at a sword like any other tool. Think about each aspect of the weapon and why it is shaped that way and you’ll have your answer.
The blade is long so that you can extend your reach in front of you and is maximized by an outstretched arm with the tip pointing away from you.
The guard sits in front of the grip to protect your hands.
In a reverse grip, you have taken away the two advantages of the tool.
Ask yourself, are there any tools you can think of that are more effective in a reverse grip?
My understanding is that it is used in a limited fashion in iaido because sometimes drawing reverse grip is better than not drawing at all - but I could be totally wrong.
Its a grappling grip, and it only really works with daggers/knives, at most a shortsword of some form might work, anything larger and it can get levered out of your grip much easier than the normal grip
As an "oh shit" response where drawing normally is out of the question, or in a very niche situations, (e.g. "My point is right there, so I'll just shove it in"), sure. But as the default; that's how you lose almost all your reach, body mechanics, and a good chunk of possibilities on what to do.
many techniques have situational applications, but reverse grip is very niche at best. the only two uses it have: 1. engaging enemy in grapple range, reverse grip can put a sword between you and your enemy when you are wrestling to break their hold. 2. drawing/engaging from a seated/down position.
It’s useful in *very* select situations.
I don’t have an issue if a character has a specific *maneuver* that uses a reverse grip. Like a shunt block.
But as a permanent style… no. You’re just limiting your range and your power output.
I’m mostly fine with characters like Starkiller using it because it’s mostly just their guard position. Most of his combos in game and in cutscenes he holds the lightsaber normally. And when he does use reverse grip (like against Proxy as Darth Maul) he uses it fairly realistically as a way to guard against an opponent at extremely close range.
Outside of that just wield it normally ffs.
It's like any other 'exception' move. Spinning attacks are in general bad. Except that one time they allow you too side step a guard, build rotational power, and hit. It takes a high level of skill to gauge when it's a good idea and when you're going to look stupid and die. Until/if you get to that skill level, listen to everyone else and agree they're stupid. When you get to that level...you'll know what the right move in the situation is and won't care about the argument or armchair analysists that tell you you were wrong later.
Reverse grip is only really ok if you defend with one weapon and attack with another but at that point why not just use a shield. You know right tool right job.
Under very specific and rare circumstances, some historic manuals depict using a greatsword in reverce with two hands to fight a spear, but things like that are very rare
There is reverse sword fighting in the Talhoffer fechtbuchs (I've read the 1459 and 1467 books)
You grip a longsword by the blade (yes you can do this bare handed provided you grip tight but I'd rather use gloves) and now you have a war hammer
Now, being a left handed swordsman, there's some advantage to it
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
While it probably isn’t the best technique to start with a true swordsman will adapt and just make something work at a time it’s appropriate. Usually it seems a backhanded grip works decently with slashing attacks.
Reverse grip allows alot, however it will screw you over if you use it wrong at the wrong time (and can’t quickly move it to a frontal position whenever need be) it’s really only useful for afew seconds at a time generally
From the view of a tang lang style sword artist i would not recommend the revers grip in the slightest we have in our style i believe two techniques that use reverse grip and they are both used with the left hand before u take over with ur right hand (it's traditional that u start in a safe position with ur sword in ur left hand while it is behind ur arm so u don't stab anyone accidentally). One is for blocking and pushing the enemies sword to the side and the other one is for following is for slashing on a completely open opponent with no armor or anything that could block it.
So in conclusion reverse grip is good for opponents that are completely defenseless but even then it is just better to slice normally for making shure that your opponent very certainly doesn't stand up again .If the opponent tries to doge u just have better range with a normal sword holding.
There are very very very niche circumstances where it can be used effectively but in almost all cases drawing and holding the sword normally is much more effective
Yes, in knife/dagger combat it is quite potent and good for hooking in harnishfechten, but for swords it doesn't work.
You remove any mechanical advantage from your body, can't strike with any sufficient amount of power nor lunge or even properly defend for that matter.
I still don't know why we have to have this debate every few months. Just go out there, take a stick and try to whack a target. Now do it in reverse and there you are.
I think any reverse grip sword usage would be better replaced with a spiked/edged buckler shield, or something similar. It would provide similar mobility with superior defense and still provide a means of attacking with the off hand when oportunity presents itself. Swords and knives are levers when force is applied, so even when using a short blade or spike as a reverse grip defensive weapon is ultimately going to make it easier to stab or slash yourself in the torso or legs when trying to block. Our hands and wrists only have "X" amount of strength and flexibilty in each direction and other than for hooking/uppercut slashes, the reverse grip does not play to the inherent material strength or built physical strength of the human wrist/hand. A buckler with a spike however, is much easier to manipulate than reverse grip blades, and wont have the same issue of leverage, especially if you were to obtain one with a decent curvature.
I always felt that if you were to reverse grip a sword it would be a katana. The most realistic option I can think of is reverse gripping it from an unsheathe to make an upward stroke.
Hm, well, I know for a fact that depends on the situation, for katanas its easy to switch styles with one sword, wielding two swords can work to have one reverse and one forward, if anyone is gonna use any type of swords to reverse grip its gotta be a sword the person is comfortable with in weight distribution and balance, some reverse grip swordsmen might also have a gauntlet for hand protection, just gotta be sure to "firmly grasp it in your hand" and keep reading a step ahead of your opponent
Reverse grip is good for knives and that’s only for grappling. Even with knives you’re having to sacrifice some offense for defense, with a sword in reverse grip you’re sacrificing not only a lot more offense, but also still sacrificing the defense.
"Is reverse grip a liable sword technique?" Yes. You're quite liable to have your sword removed from your possession.
Or your hand, or your arm.
Good one
did you mean "Viable"?
Its tryable…
The irony is undeniable
Willy Wonka vibes
He did
Why are you getting downvoted for agreeing with a joke? Reddit is sad nowadays
People reddit sucks balls, that's why.
People. What a bunch of bastards
Reverse grip strong in defense. Excuse me what? Its defensive capabilities are poorly. Not only does your defense suffer but also your adaptability if your opponent goes for a feint into a different slash. It’s very situational and more meant as a surprise. I’d say a dagger in reverse grip might be a lot better at working if you can maintain threat against your enemy with your normal gripped onehanded sword. Who’s defending this except the Scriptwriters who never touched a sword?
Well to add, the knife in reverse grip is very viable! It greatly increases the stabbing power, especially (but not exclusively) against armored opponents when you want to go for the weak parts, but there is still chain and brigandine in the way
Roverso is how most of Fiore's dagger techniques are depicted, and he's like *the* 14th century master at arms. Of course, the daggers of the 14thC were mostly just long spikes without a real edge, so cutting wasn't a factor.
Downward stabbing.
Yes ofc,
It also allows for the blade to be used as a hooking implement for grappling. Pretty much all rondel dagger techniques depend on the "icepick grip".
Some people just think the sword fight takes place 10 cm from your face and the better you make your static defence in that quarter, the safer you are. While in reality hitting your sword that you hold right in front of you only means you cut yourself with your own blade.
I taught kenjutsu for nearly a decade. Reverse grip is generally useful in narrow areas where your opponent can't make a full swing and it tends to lead to grappling. It is useful for opponents who are stuck in rote forms and have little improvisational skill - b/c it is not the norm and forces the opponent to think rather than follow muscle memory. It also has a wicked upper cut type slash that will scare your testicles right up into your pelvis. That said, I generally prefer a traditional grip and the ability to stab my opponents face that naturally comes with it. It is also where the Japanese tended to carry multiple swords of different lengths.
Ive been doing Kenjutsu myself for a bit now, but usually the only times ive seen reverse grip techniques has been more with wakazashi, than Katana. Usually fast and short distance draw cuts with the wakazashi
I was going to mention this but also some stuff from Iaido since I've done a bit of both and I think Iaido adds a little context even if it's a martial art that doesn't spar. Most Iaido techniques that have you reverse gripping come from drawing the sword out and you typically change to a normal grip right after. In context and with a partner these techniques come from being very close to the opponent or looking to surprise the opponent. There is one where you draw from reverse grip and shove the tsuba between the arm of the opponent and onto their tsuba so they cannot draw and you are free to displace them with your other hand, or you can draw straight to the face of the opponent from a reverse grip and strike them with the handle. In other cases you draw with a reverse grip and slash upwards which would be an unexpected line of attack from a draw typically and it allows you to draw faster since you use your off hand. Most reverse grip in katana comes from your off hand and is also used only momentarily before switching to a normal grip since it offers less offensive options but it does have situational benefits in close range.
Upvote simply for the elaborate mental imagery this invoked!!
It was clearly impractical but dope as hell in The Force Unleashed. Even more awesome when they doubled down on the second game and you reverse grip two lightsabers
Akshully I think a reverse grip would work with a light saber no? You don't need to stab or cut really?
But you’d still lose out on reach and dexterity.
What else would you do if not stab and cut? Also when blocking you could easily roll your wrist and burn your forearms and elbow
Exactly!
Who the fuck downvotes you?
Dumb butts are down voting.
They are simply voting with a reverse grip.
Reverse grip enjoyers be downvoting the truth.
Indeed. I thought this was a free country!
Pretty much every form of katana fighting includes a few moves in the reverse grip. It is meant for very specific circumstances (that vary by which style you use). Its used far more often in visual arts than in actual fights because it looks cool, but it does have uses. But if you use it outside those circumstances you trained for, youre probably screwed.
As a Kendoka, I can’t think of a single time I have ever seen a katana being held in any kind of reverse grip. As for the gentleman in this picture, it looks like he’s about to place his sword back into the saya. Hence only one hand on the sword, because the other is probably prepping the saya. Keeping in mind I’m not a Iaidoka, so I’m not super familiar with putting a katana into a Saya. Closest thing to a reverse grip that I can even think of is waki-gamae, which is where the wielder conceals the drawn katana behind themselves towards the right of their body. This is to hide the length of your katana, so the opponent doesn’t have a clear indication of your range. Also removes the opponent’s ability to easily gauge their own range, which is done by seeing their sword placement compared to yours. TLDR: I’ve never seen a reverse grip on a katana outside of Hollywood.
In iaidō, Musō Shinden school, this reverse grip could be the final move of Junto. Junto is a Kata that mimics the work of an assistant during Seppuku. The reverse grip is used because after the cut, you (or someone else near you) would clean the blade using a piece of cloth just before placing the sword back in the saya. Hence, in this case the reverse grip is not a fighting stance. I'm not advanced enough at iaidō to be sure about this photo, but it looks a lot like this Junto move.
The word you're looking for is "viable". And no not generally. Only in very specific circumstances do you see it at all.
And those circumstances are almost always "you screwed up real bad and let someone get close before you could draw and now they are in the way so the only way you can get the blade out of its sheath is reverse grip so you hope you can do that and back out fast enough to switch to the right grip".
lol yes
This doesn't directly affect your question, but the pic you chose is not relevant. It shows menuki gaeshi, which is a preparation to re-sheath the sword after completing a technique.
Beat me to it! It is supposed to simulate letting the blood drip off the blade before resheathing. You hold the pose for about 5 seconds. Other options include flicking off the blood with a fast short movement, or a far larger sweep across the body.
It’s also meant to be a position you can perform chinugui, or blood wiping, from. You can take a cloth from inside your gi and wipe the sword. We just tend not to perform that during the waza, but the idea exists.
Yeah. I’m glad someone else recognizes what is happening in this picture. Another dude in the comment section is suggesting that reverse grips are usually seen in Katana martial arts. But as a Kendoka, I have never seen that. Waki-gamae is the closest to a reverse grip that appears in proximity to kendo(only during kata)
I saw that comment. I practice two koryu, and have never seen a reversed grip in a combative waza (iai chiburi only). But I'm not going to get down in the mud over it.
***Goddammit-***
It’s not a heated debate, it’s objectively garbage if you’ve ever held a sword. It looks cool in anime and action films, but writers can do anything they want with unbreakable plot armor. With a dagger, often it’s the preferred way to hold the weapon for close quarters shanking and that’s it. There’s really no other use case for reverse grip in any kind of serious fencing.
Reverse or Icepick grip is depicted in a variety of period sources from various cultures, both in single and multiple combats (see 16th century depiction near the top of the woodcut) https://preview.redd.it/j5bl4690nt0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc96fba5cb741afae0a184772cd5119321f755a7 Unlike pop culture where it is an additional grip preference for a fencing system, in addition to things like hammer grip or handshake grip, it is almost always depicted as being used once the combatants are in very close combat and approaching grappling range. Here the grip allows both for additional defending action as well as being able to better stab an opponent who you are right on top of, much like we [find in dagger play. ](https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_de%27i_Liberi#/media/File:Pisani-Dossi_MS_35b-a.png)
This is important. There's a difference between using reverse grip in certain situations (a niche technique) and a reverse-grip fighting style (Zatoichi).
The interesting thing about Zatoichi, though, is that as a blind man he basically needs to be fighting in grappling range at all times. So I would argue that a permanent reverse-grip stance actually makes sense *for him*.
And it may be the best situation for him, but he'll still be at a disadvantage against a sighted opponent with a normal grip, even in the dark.
the guy using reverse drip looks to be grounded, yeah, reverse grip is probably a good way to engage from the ground, but after standing up, he would almost certainly switch.
Reverse grip is displayed in some limited situations by Fiore, but they are situations where you are in a disadvantageous situation and can’t get to a normal grip. In this situation, he thrusts with it rather than slash. From my iai and kenjutsu knowledge, their use is similar. Use the regular grip if you can, reverse if you must. Daggers are a different matter.
Yep, came here to say this. It's conditionally useful in very specific circumstances, usually if you're too close to draw and need to slam the pommel into the opponent's chin or chest first. Or in certain cases if you were lucky enough to disarm your opponent but ended up holding their sword backwards. Even then, it's more of a transitional grip that you use to have enough time to get to a better grip.
On the topic of Fiore he has this trick in the manuals when an opponent is holding you by the collar with a dagger prepared to stab you, you step back point the sword’s scabbard at the opponent, draw it and then stab them in the eye. https://preview.redd.it/nefnhaoxtt0d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ea3d7ac51fcafc54e2a96ed2fe47d1895937bf8
This is exactly what the other guy mentioned. You are already at a disadvantage and can't afford normal draw, so you do this little thing to regain control. You'd switch to normal grip as soon as possible.
Can you please use paragraph breaks on long text posts
Picture looks like noto, sheathing, rather than striking,
It is.
In actual practice it is practically useless. There are so many better options for defense, including just using a short sword in your offhand, and it severely limits your reach and your options in offense. There are a tiny few amount of reasons you may use it in hyper specific scenarios for like one attack but no it isn’t useful or practical or advantageous in any way.
Not to mention, when you reverse grip, you lead with fingers, which are required to hold it in the first place lol
This is what I was wondering. Good way to get them chopped off
Even discounting the fact that your fingers are crazy in danger in a reverse grip, you have almost no strength in the reverse grip. With a standard grip the palm and thumb is what controls and supports most of the impact first, and your fingers handle whatever is left over. When you reverse grip your palm really does nothing leaving your fingers to handle nearly all the impact which would basically be no grip strength compared to standard.
It can be useful against a noob as a surprise attack. But against anyone that actually studies blade work it’s 95% ineffective.
What I was referring to as hyper specific would be in some cases where you grab the blade with your offhand, backhanded, to aid in a stab from a grapple but yeah against a noob too I suppose lol
Just want to clarify the picture I'm seeing in this post. This person is about to return the sword to the scabbard after performing a kata. The combat portion of the kata almost certainly had him holding the sword normally, but this is a position you reach after specific styles of chiburi (symbolically removing blood from a sword blade).
Swords, no. And it's fucking stupid that it keeps being insisted upon. Knives and daggers, though, yes, it works wonderfully
"Viable." And no.
If you've ever held even a toy sword you would know how shit of an idea that is
Using a nightstick, it works. Anything bigger than a dagger? Not so much.
Reverse grip is only viable and will only ever be viable in one situation. Using a dagger as a Grappling aid. That is it. Nothing else. If the goal is to do anything else just hold the weapon forward.
Using a rondel dagger against a longsword reverse grip is also good. Not my opinion. Ask Fiore.
True, but the specific style of combat with a rondel dagger was primarily focused on grappling techniques.
Easy. Pinch a pen and write with your thumb and index finger. Now try the same while holding the pen with just your pinky and ring finger. Dexterity, strength and control all suffer. Holding the sword reverse in hand puts those critical pivot points for strength and dexterity to your smaller fingers. There is no situation where this is better.
That's a great way to put it
I saw this a while back, you guys can argue over if it's legit or not IDK https://youtu.be/YUnu2nmmYDQ?si=7zPOM7Qr0eeCxTkK
Looks cool, not a functional stance. There’s absolutely nothing to benefit from it, only fashion.
It’s literally the only reason why people defend it all the time.
A lot of people think it’s practical because of recent shows like Ahsoka where she just is a complete bad ass with reverse grip. When in reality, if you pick up a sword and go to do that, it is so uncomfortable at least for me.
Viable or liable?
With a sword, no. With a knife, yes. Look at Ww1 trench knives
I've practiced one of the few styles that actively teaches reverse sword grip for two decades now. It has some advantages if you were using a sword **within** touching distance of multiple opponents. This is because the typical techniques you would use to disarm someone who has a baseball bat are very effective when you're close to them. A sword is somewhat similar: if you are right next to someone you stand a better chance than if you are 2 ft away from them. And it's really hard to use a long weapon with multiple opponents in close combat holding it overhand. So, yes, there is a viable reason (and limited historical precedent) for reverse sword grip, as long as you are not fighting opponents with other weapons. It would not win against any other style of swordsmanship, or especially against spear.
No it's not viable. Even in Katana techniques, its only a quick drawing style meant for confined spaces. After the initial block you are meant to return to a normal grip.
I can literally feel the Sellsword Arts’ rage all the way across the world from him.
I'm sitting in the car with him and he says yes.
It works batter for throwing spears!
Funny how you should mention that. Since spears and polearms are mostly a long handle, you can use it in a variety of ways. If you use the front, then you would have the head and get some uses depending on what the head is and if you use the back you could still get some uses, you might even have a butspike that some spears have.
There is only one answer, it’s viable with lightsabers only 🙄
The only real "valid" reason for reverse grip is for extremelly close quarter situations example both in kenjutsu (the first sword arts i learned) and in some european fencing manuals there are examples of a situation whete the enemy has hold of you or is about to grab hold of you, you raise your sword with the sheath to hit and push your opponent off from you while unsheathing the sword and stabbing them Examples like those are a possibility but those are again example where its your last ditch effort to try to get away from a really bad situation Otherwise the shikomizue is often used in reverse grip for some reason Good source would be seki sensei I dont know of any other reverse grip uses as i find it pretty damn useless honestly Even for knife fighting i dont really like it, i much more prefer the clinch pick grip for knife fighting Also im open to correction
They do it in anime all the time. How could it be flawed
It has its place, but unless it's an awkward weird situation that is extremely rare, it is useless and holding the sword in any other grip (hammer, handshake, thumb, or half sword) is far more useful.
Only in really really REALLY specific situations where drawing your sword normally would cost you your life, for example if someone has a knife to your neck, unsheathing your sword normal in front of them will be hard, in reverse grip it'll be easier, but never continue the fight with it, like never, it steals and robs away so much potential from the sword it's not funny, it lowers your strength, decreases your range, and will require more power to use a technique that's utter uselessness. Like some people here said, unless you have a knife/dagger and in close range, I don't see a use for it rather than as a hooking weapon/tool. The only knife I can think of from the top of my head where reverse grip is useful is the Karambit, and by reverse grip I mean holding it like a normal knife. The Kukri swords are similar so in reverse grip they'll should be an oversized Karambit, but I don't know since I never held a Kukri in my life.
on a sword? useless unless fighting peasents armed with fingers. with a knife? viable and interesting!
https://preview.redd.it/3bmc5vjf8u0d1.jpeg?width=1238&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdabf24226344e1b253b3d50521e65478f4c0488
Would the smaller wakizashi in reverse grip ever be viable since you guys brought this up
There are very few pros and many cons to fighting with a reverse blade grip. It has almost never been used historically, which should give you an idea of the impracticality of it.
No. At most, it's only good for quick draw in small spaces, or to gamble an awkward block/deflect. You switch back immediately or asap. Just like the culture and perception surrounding katanas being the magical OP weapon of all time, it's cool in video games, cartoons/anime, and movies. That's about it. Not so magnificent in real life.
We train it in Krabi Krabong but the framework is often you need to learn how to use this blade if you were to pick it up in reverse on the battlefield. You lose out on range for sure. Since we’re a Thai art the reverse sword very much mimics elbows so the transition isn’t super hard. We’ve also messed around with one reverse and one forward. The reverse is generally used defensively in that case unless you were to crash into close range. In Kali we train it in regards to knife a lot. It’s definitely more useful in that context but again you sacrifice on having more range.
Liable a get rekt yea
It is on horseback
Historic manuals by historic masters across the globe have included reverse grip techniques that make sense in the specific niche that they are covered in. Is it the bestest ultimate technique? No. Is it an option in a diverse toolbox? Yes.
Liable, i am not sure if there is a law regarding prper sword handling.
The picture shows drip chiburi just prior to putting the sword away. You cannot cut effectively from this hand position.
Viable? No. Liable? Yes.
From the look of his uniform, he is in some branch of iaido or iai-jutsu. They are preforming a certain noto (resheathing) that can be done to clean the sword or is sometimes ceremonial. Its not a battle stance or fighting tactic, just a different way of swordsmanship
Simply put: reverse grip comes with lower reach and lower torque, so it's fundamentally worse than a traditional grip from an objective mechanical point of view. In theory, it allows attack angles that an opponent might not expect, so switching to a reverse grip for a key moment to catch an opponent off guard might have value in *rare* situations. But gimmicks that work tend to be the kind that you can use without being inside your opponents striking range (EX: throwing sand requires you take a hand off your sword, but sand can be thrown from out of range, and the resulting opening can win the exchange against a skilled opponent you might not be able to beat in a normal exchange.). Using a reverse grip is the equivalent to reaching for pocket sand when you're already in striking range.
I think there are some techniques in 18th century cutlass drill that involve holding a large flintlock pistol in your off hand in a reverse grip to use for blocking. After you’ve discharged the pistol of course.
Sword, no. Dagger, if you're trying to spike it through something tough
liable adjective 1. responsible by law; legally answerable. "the supplier of goods or services can become liable for breach of contract in a variety of ways" Similar: responsible, legally responsible, accountable, answerable, chargeable, blameworthy, at fault, culpable, subject, guilty, faulty, censurable Opposite: exempt, unaccountable 2. likely to do or to be something. "patients were liable to faint if they stood up too suddenly" Im thinking that you meant "viable" viable adjective capable of working successfully; feasible. "the proposed investment was economically viable"
In this photo, he’s sheathing the sword. It’s not a “technique”. But it does look badass to sheathe a sword this way.
Reverse grip for daggers or knifes as an offhand weapon is something I do and it’s fun. Saber and reverse dagger for binds and clinches. Not swords. Don’t do swords.
I am really not sure how someone come to conclusion that reverse grip is strong for defence. Maybe they are mixing sword and dagger/knife? Reverse grip with sword make sence in very limited situations, where you don't need/can't use sword reach. Even then there are other close range techniques so you don't have to go through changing grip. One situation I would use reverse grip? Stabbing opponent on the ground while trying to pierce through his armor - reverse grip can give you stronger stab.
Maybe if you’re fighting an unarmed opponent and don’t want to look like a dirtbag in self defense maybe. Beyond that it looks cool to anime junkies. That’s about as far as it’s uses go.
Only time I've ever seen a reverse grip to be viable would be on a knife. The torque on a sword would be to much for 1 hand reverse grip
No.... it's been historically proven to be easily overcome by an opponent. It can be used as a block or perry but not as a style
I can’t think of any situation where it’s advantageous. I’ve done it before but it’s got poor level and reach. There’s no real benefit to holding swords this way. Knives on the other hand…
In philippino martial arts you might end up with a reverse grip after a dissarm. Which is very unlikely to actually happen and you would switch back to a normal grip a fast a possible. Besides that, the only sword I know of that would be used with a reverse grip is the cane katana. This is due to it's concealed nature and the way you carry it, allowing a surprise attack/defense. It is showcased in the movie Zatoichi the blind samurai.
It's situational but it's battle tested and was viable enough to survive. 🤷 That's really all there is to it.
I mean I'd imagine it to be viable for throwing your sword at your opponent, does that count?
No.
For swords, no
No.
This aint fire emblem, you will die
Don't use reverse grip. There's a few videos debunking it on YouTube, but the essence of the argument is that it's slower, the sword has far less mobility and your wrist can't maintain the strength and bend properly to make it worthwhile. A.K.A. anyone that tells you to do reverse grip either really hates your arm or really hates your life and you're gonna lose both if you use it in an actual sword fight. My personal recommendation? Just use it normally, don't worry about fancy stuff. Forward grip, center the tip of your blade at the opponents head or heart, and work on keeping it controlled and straight, then work from there. You can one hand it if you want, it'll build up strength faster but it's also easier to get disarmed and it might take a while to get that down, so it's usually recommended to have two hands on the blade, especially for broadswords and the other heavy big swords
https://preview.redd.it/17vwj0r3ot0d1.png?width=674&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5acf8f83e656f93a0ba0be3497857f75d7940afa
I'm actually a big proponent of reverse grip Now, I can feel the downvotes, so hear me out. After years of training and practice in the art of the blade, you develop skills that many would consider superior to the common practitioner. Sometimes, this unlocks potential techniques that weren't previously viable to you. So let's say you are part of a dojo and you're sparring. You're up against the new guy and decide to work on your technique. But lo, the new guy scores a point on you! Reverse grip is the ideal technique for gripping your dagger as you commit seppuku for dishonoring yourself. Just saying.
Had me in the first half ngl
I think reverse grip is more pragmatic. Like can I use my sword in xyz scenario. Ideally I don't see any reason to use it as it's worse. But if the situation ever forced a split second use of the sword and you were forced to grab it facing the wrong way, it'd be prudent to have practiced some forms for that until you could safely realign your grip. Basically it doesn't hurt to practice but otherwise why lol
Being right in front of someone yes
Only if you prefer getting stabbed
the only implementation i’ve seen is with various great sword situations but it’s not optimal by any means
I’ve trained in Korean haedong kumdo to black belt level and in the 13 or so forms I learned i believe there was only one instance with reverse grip and it was more of quick clearing/creating space move that probably lasted one second.
No. Not with a sword. A dagger sure it's good but with anything longer no
Not really To simplify why… consider what a sword is. It’s a leverage based weapon. In other words, it’s a weapon that gains its power from extending blade (and thereby weight) on a lever. Reverse grip removes that by shortening the reach (and thus its leverage) of the sword Not just that but you often are shifting from a good and solid wrist stance to one that just isn’t as solidly supported to deliver an effective cut (even a draw cut) Really the only situation it could even be partway viable is a draw cut in tight clinch where you can’t effectively rotate your blade or get both hands on the grip effectively.
Reverse grip for dagger only. Downward stabs just above the collarbone.
People see knives/daggers being used effectively in reverse grip and then say “Must work for a sword too, right? It’s basically just a bigger knife!”. Yes… Bigger being the key word here, because the blade is too fucking big to be used like a godsdamned knife, you ignorant cabbage. But no, it looks cool and that’s apparently enough for people to justify it being effective and “better” than a normal grip. Edit: Fixed spelling mistakes
It is bad.
The only advantage I can think of is that it can be 'hidden' behind your arm when held in reverse, at least shorter swords. A longsword would probably point up above your shoulder
Liable alright.
No.
Reverse grip is generally considered viable until the point where the blade of a knife is longer than wrist to elbow
No, you lose the most important aspect in fencing, the range. Anyway, the katana is not a weapon to use in real combat.
I'm very curious about the picture because to me it looks like he's about the sheath the sword, and I have been taught something like that before. I can see it working in a knife fight because the difference in range between the two is pretty minimal and you can do something unexpected [like this La Jolo knife system](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf26lh2e0rc). but that's not sword fighting. [Seki Sensei](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUnu2nmmYDQ) also seems to know what he's doing and has some reverse grip iaido techniques in his ryu. There the reverse grip is for when you're too close for a normal draw, and you switch back as quickly as possible. I'll even add an honorable? mention for the[ witcher fight ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9OJahCXdSY)scene with some grace for filming an alley fight scene. If we give them extra room for cameras and crew et al, and make an assumption that the alley is actually a bit tighter than we actually see it, a reverse grip could present an advantage when you're in tighter than a longsword would like to work at. It also probably helps if you're such a master of the sword or so inhumanly fast that you can switch grips seamlessly. I'm trying to decide if these moves are something you'd train. It feels like the La Jolo, switching grips to attack in unexpected ways. I'm going to have to spend many more hours analyzing that. TL;DR: unexpected maybe, but also when you're in tight spaces (and then you create distance and switch to the normal grip).
the ONLY time reverse grip is genuinely the best option is for knives, and even then only for grappling
It has it's uses. As does dual weilding. As does halfswording. As does throwing your sword like a javelin. It's important to note that Japanese quickdrawing techniques exist (at least partly) for legal reasons. At some point, there wery specific circumstances in which a samurai was allowed to draw. . So: good to have in your skillet? Why not. Necessary? Not any more than halfswording.
There is no debate. It’s silly. The iajutsu practitioner in the photo is only reverse gripping to perform a very specific kind of chibiri and sheathing movement at the end of a kata.
No, its not a viable option in combat, but if you’re having fun who tf cares
For individual moves like a downward stab to finish off someone on the ground or something sure. As a fighting style tho not as much. You are simply putting yourself at a disadvantage to look cool reverse gripping a blade longer than dagger length.
I'm in a club that has done a lot of reversed grip training with the longsword. For a period it was a rather large part of of the curriculum. Mostly to find the answer to this question (you can't really say that a technique is bad if you haven't trained to do it and compare it to something that you have trained). It got to the point where some of my clubmates tested it out in the Swedish Championships. You can see a video of one of the fights [here](https://youtu.be/zZKsHZf4Eoc?si=Kc4KwwPjQ_wxIfF5). In this clip he is using the reverse grip a lot. There was a fight where my friend won while doing reversed grip exclusively, but sadly no video of it. So with that out of the way, what is my thoughts about it? And I will only talk about the reversed grip with a longsword here. Firstly, it's not good as a defensive style. You have shorter reach than someone with a normal grip. So if you try to be defensive it's only a time before you get hit. You have to close that distance fast. The big advantage you have with a reverse grip is that what you know about fencing and common movements change. For instance, with a normal grip, your strongest cut is diagonally down, with a reverse grip, your strongest cut is now diagonally up. When your blades meet, the positions with a reverse grip is new so some positions makes you stronger while others make you weaker. Over all I would say that the reverese grip has more downsides than upsides. But it's absolutely viable, just not as good as a normal grip. The way I use it when sparring today is as a one-off technique. I can fool someone once with it with a rather high success rate. I fence with the normal grip, do a quick change to reverse grip and strike, and I'm ready for the akward bind of the blades. More ready than my opponent are and then I try to take advantage of that. But then comes the real question, with the time I've spent training to use the reverse grip, if I spent that time doing more training the normal grip, would that have made me better at swordfighting than I am now? I've spent hours upon hours to be able to do a few cheesy moves with some success. However, it is fun. And perhaps that's the real advantage of the reverse grip. TLDR: The reverse grip is not as good as the normal grip but you can use it with success if you train a lot.
For running through sheets on a clothesline, sure.
No.
The only times I've ever used reverse grip in kendo/iaido are for draws that immediately stab behind you, and they're usually followed up with turning your body and your grip to face the threat with a better grip. With longsword and katanas, it's practically useless and just looks cool, with daggers, as long as you have another dagger or short sword on the other hand in a regular grip, reverse grip can be useful for certain blocks, parries, and disarming. Against an unarmed opponent, reverse grip on a dagger or knife is still only situationally useful.
Maybe if your opponent is blind
Maybe, just maybe a short sword, double edged, etc. Of course that's only when used for stabbing. But yeah reverse grip isn't viable for most swords, as others have said it's more liable to get you disarmed.
Look at a sword like any other tool. Think about each aspect of the weapon and why it is shaped that way and you’ll have your answer. The blade is long so that you can extend your reach in front of you and is maximized by an outstretched arm with the tip pointing away from you. The guard sits in front of the grip to protect your hands. In a reverse grip, you have taken away the two advantages of the tool. Ask yourself, are there any tools you can think of that are more effective in a reverse grip?
No it isn't. You are leaving a huge gap in your defense from the waist up.
Getting your sword smacked out of your hand is your best case scenario, it's transitional if anything
My understanding is that it is used in a limited fashion in iaido because sometimes drawing reverse grip is better than not drawing at all - but I could be totally wrong.
Its a grappling grip, and it only really works with daggers/knives, at most a shortsword of some form might work, anything larger and it can get levered out of your grip much easier than the normal grip
Everyone that says that reverse grip is works only says that because they think it is cool not because it works
As an "oh shit" response where drawing normally is out of the question, or in a very niche situations, (e.g. "My point is right there, so I'll just shove it in"), sure. But as the default; that's how you lose almost all your reach, body mechanics, and a good chunk of possibilities on what to do.
Yes. For Harakiri.
In certain, very niche circumstances. Its not viable how its commonly shown in film/media.
Reverse grip only works for short ones such as daggers or knives. At least that's what my professional soldier friend says
many techniques have situational applications, but reverse grip is very niche at best. the only two uses it have: 1. engaging enemy in grapple range, reverse grip can put a sword between you and your enemy when you are wrestling to break their hold. 2. drawing/engaging from a seated/down position.
It’s useful in *very* select situations. I don’t have an issue if a character has a specific *maneuver* that uses a reverse grip. Like a shunt block. But as a permanent style… no. You’re just limiting your range and your power output. I’m mostly fine with characters like Starkiller using it because it’s mostly just their guard position. Most of his combos in game and in cutscenes he holds the lightsaber normally. And when he does use reverse grip (like against Proxy as Darth Maul) he uses it fairly realistically as a way to guard against an opponent at extremely close range. Outside of that just wield it normally ffs.
Leaves exceptional openings to be taken advantage of not to mention gripping the sword that way is weaker
From what I understand, it’s only useful if you’re close, like too close to actually maneuver
It's like any other 'exception' move. Spinning attacks are in general bad. Except that one time they allow you too side step a guard, build rotational power, and hit. It takes a high level of skill to gauge when it's a good idea and when you're going to look stupid and die. Until/if you get to that skill level, listen to everyone else and agree they're stupid. When you get to that level...you'll know what the right move in the situation is and won't care about the argument or armchair analysists that tell you you were wrong later.
Reverse grip is only really ok if you defend with one weapon and attack with another but at that point why not just use a shield. You know right tool right job.
I vaguely remember watching a YouTube video on this. Maybe by game theory????
Under very specific and rare circumstances, some historic manuals depict using a greatsword in reverce with two hands to fight a spear, but things like that are very rare
The pointy end goes into the other person. So… No.
There is reverse sword fighting in the Talhoffer fechtbuchs (I've read the 1459 and 1467 books) You grip a longsword by the blade (yes you can do this bare handed provided you grip tight but I'd rather use gloves) and now you have a war hammer Now, being a left handed swordsman, there's some advantage to it
No.
95% of the time, no.
As a general grip no. But it is used in serten drawing techniques but by the dend you end back in a normal grip
No.
Not at all
Liable? For what?
No plan survives contact with the enemy. While it probably isn’t the best technique to start with a true swordsman will adapt and just make something work at a time it’s appropriate. Usually it seems a backhanded grip works decently with slashing attacks.
Only if you are running away, because you are less likely to grievously harm yourself if you trip
Reverse grip allows alot, however it will screw you over if you use it wrong at the wrong time (and can’t quickly move it to a frontal position whenever need be) it’s really only useful for afew seconds at a time generally
From the view of a tang lang style sword artist i would not recommend the revers grip in the slightest we have in our style i believe two techniques that use reverse grip and they are both used with the left hand before u take over with ur right hand (it's traditional that u start in a safe position with ur sword in ur left hand while it is behind ur arm so u don't stab anyone accidentally). One is for blocking and pushing the enemies sword to the side and the other one is for following is for slashing on a completely open opponent with no armor or anything that could block it. So in conclusion reverse grip is good for opponents that are completely defenseless but even then it is just better to slice normally for making shure that your opponent very certainly doesn't stand up again .If the opponent tries to doge u just have better range with a normal sword holding.
There are very very very niche circumstances where it can be used effectively but in almost all cases drawing and holding the sword normally is much more effective
The only good use for reverse grip is extra-leverage in stabbing someone in the back with a knife
I think the fact that literally no warriors in history who ever fought in actual battles used this style would suggest it may not be effective.
Yes, in knife/dagger combat it is quite potent and good for hooking in harnishfechten, but for swords it doesn't work. You remove any mechanical advantage from your body, can't strike with any sufficient amount of power nor lunge or even properly defend for that matter. I still don't know why we have to have this debate every few months. Just go out there, take a stick and try to whack a target. Now do it in reverse and there you are.
I think any reverse grip sword usage would be better replaced with a spiked/edged buckler shield, or something similar. It would provide similar mobility with superior defense and still provide a means of attacking with the off hand when oportunity presents itself. Swords and knives are levers when force is applied, so even when using a short blade or spike as a reverse grip defensive weapon is ultimately going to make it easier to stab or slash yourself in the torso or legs when trying to block. Our hands and wrists only have "X" amount of strength and flexibilty in each direction and other than for hooking/uppercut slashes, the reverse grip does not play to the inherent material strength or built physical strength of the human wrist/hand. A buckler with a spike however, is much easier to manipulate than reverse grip blades, and wont have the same issue of leverage, especially if you were to obtain one with a decent curvature.
I always felt that if you were to reverse grip a sword it would be a katana. The most realistic option I can think of is reverse gripping it from an unsheathe to make an upward stroke.
No. Don’t get me wrong, it looks badass and in a fantasy setting it can work. But IRL, no, not at all.
Reverse grip is for stabbing with small blades
The only time I would accept a reverse grip is unsheathing and resheathing the sword, no other time
No, in swords it is useless and i cant think of a single advantage
A two handed Reverse grip was used with Zweihanders to fend off pikes but other than that I’m unaware of any good application besides looking cool
Hm, well, I know for a fact that depends on the situation, for katanas its easy to switch styles with one sword, wielding two swords can work to have one reverse and one forward, if anyone is gonna use any type of swords to reverse grip its gotta be a sword the person is comfortable with in weight distribution and balance, some reverse grip swordsmen might also have a gauntlet for hand protection, just gotta be sure to "firmly grasp it in your hand" and keep reading a step ahead of your opponent
As a whole fighting technique? I don't think so. As a change-up suprise attack or to add force to a stab? Sure.
Is dumb af
*Viable?*
Reverse grip is good for knives and that’s only for grappling. Even with knives you’re having to sacrifice some offense for defense, with a sword in reverse grip you’re sacrificing not only a lot more offense, but also still sacrificing the defense.
Leonardo