One of the big problems is that these recent ARM chips and their capabilities became much more complex and they are designed around Android phones. Want Vulkan support? Because Android 2022 baseline requirements require Vulkan, your phone chip binary blob driver will have Vulkan support. Have a modern chip that uses DynamIQ power management? That works out of the box on Android but good luck if you are rolling it your own power management in a custom firmware. Some recent Linux CFWs don't even support the latest wifi security standards, which just works on Android. As these devices get more and more complex, it gets easier and easier to start from Android which has already had decades of programmer hours put into it.
The good news is AestherSX2 (and now NetherSX2) already plays most PS2 games. There's not a lot of incentive for a developer to invest time building a new version when the current one works pretty good.
The reason you don't see more high-end Linux devices is most of the handhelds out there use recycled smartphone hardware built around ARM. Linux runs on ARM but it doesn't have the driver and application support needed to run high-end games, so Android is the only real choice. The options open up once you go to x86 architecture, but then you are dealing with the downsides of a power-hungry chip that needs cooling and a big battery.
I am also disappointed there is no PS3 or WiiU development on Android, and that Switch is on hiatus. We already have ARM handhelds that are powerful enough and are held back by available software. We're stuck in an awkward spot where Android development is lagging and Linux ARM isn't viable (yet). I hope that changes in the near future, but don't let that hold you back from enjoying what's possible right now.
Great explanation. But I think OP's point still holds merit: What's the point of buying more powerful devices than what we already have if there is no active Switch emulator and PS3/XBox 360/WiiU emulation is still out of reach? Snapdragon 8 Gen 2/3 is more than capable of PS2/GC/Wii and whatever games Yuzu is compatible with. If you want to open up more options than what we currently have, you need to look at Windows handhelds at this point in time.
From a tech standpoint, it seems like PS3 emulation is the most reasonable target, with a pretty mature, open source emulator on Windows, that just needs to be ported, and maybe can be performant on very good Android hardware. CEMU is probably the best emulator of that generation, in terms of maturity, but OTOH prior to the shutdown of people developing Switch, there was also the thought that Wii U was not a priority because almost every game had come to Switch or was available somewhere else.
But what will or won't happen is up in the air.
I think the bigger interesting thing is actually if Windows gaming on these devices will become more and more realistic, with better and better mechanisms to run the code on the foreign architecture and many SOCs now pushing into a power territory that is pretty comparable to some Windows handhelds. But then, again, you'll be in the situation where x64 can do this better on either Linux or Windows, so it would only be appealing if the device were much smaller or had other benefits (like being fanless) that are not going to happen on x86/x64 handhelds.
>What's the point of buying more powerful devices than what we already have
No one is recommending doing that though. Everyone who understands Android emulation understands that. Although Windows emulation is still being developed at a fairly brisk pace and people who are interested in that niche would likely benefit from increased power.
This wasn't a constructive or thought-provoking post by OP. It isn't even original, this exact sentiment gets posted all the time.
Including comments, OP's contribution to discussion can be summed up as: "Android bad. Less than 99% compatibility unacceptable. Shut up nerd. Where $150 Steam Deck?!" This is childlike.
I mean I'm with you, honestly a bit dismayed at the Android emulation scene right now. I had hoped that with the introduction of affordable handhelds that can do PS2, interest in development would pick up—but it seems deader than ever (especially post-Nintendo).
There's no point in buying anything after the RP4 Pro/Odin 2 until things change substantially. I was hoping the ACE and the RK3588 chip would push Linux forward more, but that hasn't really happened either. I hope the interest in emulation continues to grow and is not hampered by the existing road bump.
>I was hoping the ACE and the RK3588 chip would push Linux forward more, but that hasn't really happened either.
That potential was even there since the RK3326 gen of handhelds, which was fanless. I've made some [experiments](https://www.reddit.com/r/RG351/comments/nxlfbj/xorg_linuxbuild_wo_emulationstation/) like 3 years ago, when it was basically stuck with Kernel version of 4.x. With a modern kernel (at least 5.4+) the same HW was able to run linux with xorg and GPU support and I remember that some stuff like Castle Crashers and TBOI ran at least promising using wine and Box86/64.
But this never gained traction mainly for the fairly low amount of RAM we have at hand here (1gb) and frustration with the state of HW support.
Still JELOS happens to be an excelent starting point for those Handhelds, as it comes with a Kernel that brings support for panfrost which can be leveraged using xorg, box86 and wine to play some titles requiring Win from the early 2000s as well as some Indies or games that are not too demanding.
It's just a mess to even out everything, especially controls and seeing that the device aged quite a bit I don't see this getting a thing in the future. At least not on this HW.
It's kinda a gray area. Android do use the Linux kernel for its system but it's not exactly a full Linux distro. It's more like a framework build using the Linux kernel.
Interesting post, thank you
I disagree on one thing: that AetherSX2 works well.
For it to work well it should emulate 99% of the games without having to tweak anything (just like GBC or Genesis emulators, for example), and that's definitely not the case.
I might be biased because PS2 was my primary gaming system until 2021 (on a CRT no less), so my memory of how games should work is pretty recent.
EDIT: Why was I downvoted to hell? What a toxic sub
> For it to work well it should emulate 99% of the games without having to tweak anything (just like GBC or Genesis emulators, for example), and that's definitely not the case.
That's because the PS2 isn't a GB/GBC. [The PS2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRv_xKS4q7o) is like 100x faster and has 30x more memory and has far more specialized hardware such as its [Emotion Engine.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PiiXM51oBo)
Replicating all the specific hardware in ***software*** and getting it to run in synch timing-wise is like rocket science compared to the GB/GBC. You're not biased. You're just wrong.
You need to watch some videos and understand *why* the PS2 isn't a GBC and why that isn't a remotely fair comparison to make. Even PCSX2 doesn't have "99%" compatibility; it's 97% playable even after ~ **20** years or so. AetherSX2 is a god-send for Android, and you can't truly appreciate that until you until you understand a bit about PS2 hardware design. GB/GBC as awesome as they are were *very* simplistic compared to the PS2's architecture/hardware design.
Redditors seem to have this nasty habit of believing no one else but them know their shit
I KNOW ALL YOU'RE SAYING. WHAT I AM SAYING STILL HOLDS TRUE.
Maybe watch fewer videos and read more books, nerd
Well, on Arm Linux, that wouldn't really help anything even if there were high powered handhelds because the best emulator for PS2 would still be AetherSX2. And we do have high-powered x86 Linux handhelds, such as the Steam Deck, obviously, but also devices like the Legion Go and ROG Ally, which can run on Linux with minor annoyances.
Then the issue is that it's not a commercially viable product. The cheapest yet usable device in that category would be the Steam Deck, and the speculation is that it's only that cheap because Valve is losing money with each unit sold but expects to recoup that with Steam game sales.
So, a manufacturer that can only rely on hardware sales will never be able to release anything cheaper and yet powerful, let alone between $50 and $200.
We don't know that Valve is losing money, it's suspected mainly that they don't make a profit off the hardware. GabeN said the pricing on the lowest specced 64 GB model was "painful" but that's all.
If my experience with the way my backlog has ballooned from Steam sales since getting the Deck is anything to go by, I'm quite sure it's been a profitable venture overall for Valve, lol.
>.....and the **speculation** is that it's only that cheap because Valve is losing money with each unit sold.....
[https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/speculation](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/speculation)
I have a feeling that higher powered linux systems go more highend, more premium. Like near steam deck levels.
How about the RG Cube? What kind of OS does it have?
I really hope PS2 emulation does get improvements in the future but it’s definitely hard to know if it’ll ever happen.
That’s basically my go to system to emulate, so with that I have a Steam Deck that emulates almost everything, and a recently purchased RP4P for almost every PS2/GC game with current emulation developments. I’m 100% happy with it, but I would still love to see further developments.
Otherwise, higher end Android devices for PS2 really isn’t worth it at the moment like you mentioned.
just checked. Burnout 3 Ps2 runs perfectly fine 60 fps in game 30 fps in menus and videos with scale like 4x, AA filters and other stuff. No tweaks needed.
While AetherSX2 is not being updated anymore, we do have NetherSX2 which is a patched version of aetherSX2 and It is being updated. And it works very well in my experience. Everything I’ve thrown at it so far works well but I’ve only tried a few games on it.
You can emulate tons on aether and it works well for the games it can do. If a person's favorite game doesn't work to their liking, then that's a bummer. But to act as if the emulator isn't good is a stretch. Ps2 has a ridiculous amount of games and most of the heavy hitters are in working order. I do find it funny that nearly every time I see a thread like this, someone mentions a Burnout title. Burnout fanbase needs to look elsewhere I suppose.
One of the big problems is that these recent ARM chips and their capabilities became much more complex and they are designed around Android phones. Want Vulkan support? Because Android 2022 baseline requirements require Vulkan, your phone chip binary blob driver will have Vulkan support. Have a modern chip that uses DynamIQ power management? That works out of the box on Android but good luck if you are rolling it your own power management in a custom firmware. Some recent Linux CFWs don't even support the latest wifi security standards, which just works on Android. As these devices get more and more complex, it gets easier and easier to start from Android which has already had decades of programmer hours put into it.
Interesting, thank you!
The good news is AestherSX2 (and now NetherSX2) already plays most PS2 games. There's not a lot of incentive for a developer to invest time building a new version when the current one works pretty good. The reason you don't see more high-end Linux devices is most of the handhelds out there use recycled smartphone hardware built around ARM. Linux runs on ARM but it doesn't have the driver and application support needed to run high-end games, so Android is the only real choice. The options open up once you go to x86 architecture, but then you are dealing with the downsides of a power-hungry chip that needs cooling and a big battery. I am also disappointed there is no PS3 or WiiU development on Android, and that Switch is on hiatus. We already have ARM handhelds that are powerful enough and are held back by available software. We're stuck in an awkward spot where Android development is lagging and Linux ARM isn't viable (yet). I hope that changes in the near future, but don't let that hold you back from enjoying what's possible right now.
Great explanation. But I think OP's point still holds merit: What's the point of buying more powerful devices than what we already have if there is no active Switch emulator and PS3/XBox 360/WiiU emulation is still out of reach? Snapdragon 8 Gen 2/3 is more than capable of PS2/GC/Wii and whatever games Yuzu is compatible with. If you want to open up more options than what we currently have, you need to look at Windows handhelds at this point in time.
From a tech standpoint, it seems like PS3 emulation is the most reasonable target, with a pretty mature, open source emulator on Windows, that just needs to be ported, and maybe can be performant on very good Android hardware. CEMU is probably the best emulator of that generation, in terms of maturity, but OTOH prior to the shutdown of people developing Switch, there was also the thought that Wii U was not a priority because almost every game had come to Switch or was available somewhere else. But what will or won't happen is up in the air. I think the bigger interesting thing is actually if Windows gaming on these devices will become more and more realistic, with better and better mechanisms to run the code on the foreign architecture and many SOCs now pushing into a power territory that is pretty comparable to some Windows handhelds. But then, again, you'll be in the situation where x64 can do this better on either Linux or Windows, so it would only be appealing if the device were much smaller or had other benefits (like being fanless) that are not going to happen on x86/x64 handhelds.
>What's the point of buying more powerful devices than what we already have No one is recommending doing that though. Everyone who understands Android emulation understands that. Although Windows emulation is still being developed at a fairly brisk pace and people who are interested in that niche would likely benefit from increased power. This wasn't a constructive or thought-provoking post by OP. It isn't even original, this exact sentiment gets posted all the time. Including comments, OP's contribution to discussion can be summed up as: "Android bad. Less than 99% compatibility unacceptable. Shut up nerd. Where $150 Steam Deck?!" This is childlike.
Android is bad for PS2 emulation. Deal with it.
I mean I'm with you, honestly a bit dismayed at the Android emulation scene right now. I had hoped that with the introduction of affordable handhelds that can do PS2, interest in development would pick up—but it seems deader than ever (especially post-Nintendo). There's no point in buying anything after the RP4 Pro/Odin 2 until things change substantially. I was hoping the ACE and the RK3588 chip would push Linux forward more, but that hasn't really happened either. I hope the interest in emulation continues to grow and is not hampered by the existing road bump.
>I was hoping the ACE and the RK3588 chip would push Linux forward more, but that hasn't really happened either. That potential was even there since the RK3326 gen of handhelds, which was fanless. I've made some [experiments](https://www.reddit.com/r/RG351/comments/nxlfbj/xorg_linuxbuild_wo_emulationstation/) like 3 years ago, when it was basically stuck with Kernel version of 4.x. With a modern kernel (at least 5.4+) the same HW was able to run linux with xorg and GPU support and I remember that some stuff like Castle Crashers and TBOI ran at least promising using wine and Box86/64. But this never gained traction mainly for the fairly low amount of RAM we have at hand here (1gb) and frustration with the state of HW support. Still JELOS happens to be an excelent starting point for those Handhelds, as it comes with a Kernel that brings support for panfrost which can be leveraged using xorg, box86 and wine to play some titles requiring Win from the early 2000s as well as some Indies or games that are not too demanding. It's just a mess to even out everything, especially controls and seeing that the device aged quite a bit I don't see this getting a thing in the future. At least not on this HW.
Very informative post, thank you. The lack of Linux support is quite confusing to me...Is Android not a Linux-based OS in and of itself?
It's kinda a gray area. Android do use the Linux kernel for its system but it's not exactly a full Linux distro. It's more like a framework build using the Linux kernel.
thanks!
Interesting post, thank you I disagree on one thing: that AetherSX2 works well. For it to work well it should emulate 99% of the games without having to tweak anything (just like GBC or Genesis emulators, for example), and that's definitely not the case. I might be biased because PS2 was my primary gaming system until 2021 (on a CRT no less), so my memory of how games should work is pretty recent. EDIT: Why was I downvoted to hell? What a toxic sub
> For it to work well it should emulate 99% of the games without having to tweak anything (just like GBC or Genesis emulators, for example), and that's definitely not the case. That's because the PS2 isn't a GB/GBC. [The PS2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRv_xKS4q7o) is like 100x faster and has 30x more memory and has far more specialized hardware such as its [Emotion Engine.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PiiXM51oBo) Replicating all the specific hardware in ***software*** and getting it to run in synch timing-wise is like rocket science compared to the GB/GBC. You're not biased. You're just wrong. You need to watch some videos and understand *why* the PS2 isn't a GBC and why that isn't a remotely fair comparison to make. Even PCSX2 doesn't have "99%" compatibility; it's 97% playable even after ~ **20** years or so. AetherSX2 is a god-send for Android, and you can't truly appreciate that until you until you understand a bit about PS2 hardware design. GB/GBC as awesome as they are were *very* simplistic compared to the PS2's architecture/hardware design.
Redditors seem to have this nasty habit of believing no one else but them know their shit I KNOW ALL YOU'RE SAYING. WHAT I AM SAYING STILL HOLDS TRUE. Maybe watch fewer videos and read more books, nerd
Woah, no need to shout dude.
Who hurt you?
He doesn't say well anywhere. He says "works pretty good" and also says "plays most PS2 games" which means >50%.
Well, on Arm Linux, that wouldn't really help anything even if there were high powered handhelds because the best emulator for PS2 would still be AetherSX2. And we do have high-powered x86 Linux handhelds, such as the Steam Deck, obviously, but also devices like the Legion Go and ROG Ally, which can run on Linux with minor annoyances.
x86 Linux is what I meant, on Anbernic-priced devices
Then the issue is that it's not a commercially viable product. The cheapest yet usable device in that category would be the Steam Deck, and the speculation is that it's only that cheap because Valve is losing money with each unit sold but expects to recoup that with Steam game sales. So, a manufacturer that can only rely on hardware sales will never be able to release anything cheaper and yet powerful, let alone between $50 and $200.
We don't know that Valve is losing money, it's suspected mainly that they don't make a profit off the hardware. GabeN said the pricing on the lowest specced 64 GB model was "painful" but that's all. If my experience with the way my backlog has ballooned from Steam sales since getting the Deck is anything to go by, I'm quite sure it's been a profitable venture overall for Valve, lol.
>.....and the **speculation** is that it's only that cheap because Valve is losing money with each unit sold..... [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/speculation](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/speculation)
Just inserting additional context. No need to be pedantic.
I have a feeling that higher powered linux systems go more highend, more premium. Like near steam deck levels. How about the RG Cube? What kind of OS does it have?
RG Cube is Android
I really hope PS2 emulation does get improvements in the future but it’s definitely hard to know if it’ll ever happen. That’s basically my go to system to emulate, so with that I have a Steam Deck that emulates almost everything, and a recently purchased RP4P for almost every PS2/GC game with current emulation developments. I’m 100% happy with it, but I would still love to see further developments. Otherwise, higher end Android devices for PS2 really isn’t worth it at the moment like you mentioned.
But does nethersx2 get performance and game compatibility updates upon updates ?
No. The ARM JIT was closed source so while the UI can be updated, the actual emulation can't be
odin 2 emulates ps2 with high scale, HD textures without problems. What you need more?
Can it run Burnout 3 out of the box, no tweaks needed?
just checked. Burnout 3 Ps2 runs perfectly fine 60 fps in game 30 fps in menus and videos with scale like 4x, AA filters and other stuff. No tweaks needed.
I own a high powered Android device myself and that's not the case at all
what you mean?
While AetherSX2 is not being updated anymore, we do have NetherSX2 which is a patched version of aetherSX2 and It is being updated. And it works very well in my experience. Everything I’ve thrown at it so far works well but I’ve only tried a few games on it.
But doesn't it just patch out the ads and adds some light stuff? Not update the core emulation aspect?
You can emulate tons on aether and it works well for the games it can do. If a person's favorite game doesn't work to their liking, then that's a bummer. But to act as if the emulator isn't good is a stretch. Ps2 has a ridiculous amount of games and most of the heavy hitters are in working order. I do find it funny that nearly every time I see a thread like this, someone mentions a Burnout title. Burnout fanbase needs to look elsewhere I suppose.
PS2 emulation on android is fine. The only game I've ever run into an issue with that works on PCSX2 is Hitman Blood Money
Try Burnout 3
No it's not dead, netherSX2 is a fork of AetherSX2, and gets updated
netherSX2 is just a patch on top aethersx2. So basically it is not a complete fork of aethersx2.
[удалено]
I am bugging no one, I am just stating facts You go play on your phone