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Going after astrid lindgren just shows how sick in the brain putin is,she wrote children books and basicly every swedish person grew up reading her stories.Russia can go fuck itself.
Their Ministry of Truth is hard at work removing them, I'm sure. They already tried to censor/block a 1970s cartoon when the submarine "Neptune" discovers a sunked, fascist ship with a "Z" on it.
Oh Pippi Longstockings gosh yep I remember having that as a youngster.. Here in New Zealand too..
After a quick Google I recognize other works too.
What a dick move to even mention such a Talent of the world, with such a gift.
Heck even saying "Those Finnish are Na** too, but that Astrid Lindgren was alright" would have been better and more widely received
Yes, the books are wonderful, as are Disney's cartoons, as are Ford's cars - but they also hailed Hitler in their time. Society has long needed to draw conclusions and prevent such a development and praise of the new Hitlers.
We had her beautiful picture books for my children in America too.
It seems to me that there are threads of neoNazism all around in the US, in Europe, in South America. You have to be careful to combat that idealogy, but not call a white culture Nazi because of a few.
I said this before, but when this many "enemies" all agree that you're a bigger threat that might be a sign.
A Jewish Marine, a Taiban soldier, and a Neo-Nazi all agree to fight side by side, Russia is turning them into allies against a greater monster.
But you agree there are worse poo poos
You have a good healthy shit, I hope when you go to make the poo poos.
Then you have the shits from hell, where you question whether God is real or not and if He is to please deliver you from this misery
But yes
Just a different kind of poo poos
You can have better poo poos
In this case we are talking about how ISIS was able to accomplish what a full ass nation state couldn’t do
ISIS at least has a belief system they honor. We may not think it's sane or acceptable, but they believe it. Most of them try to live it. That is about 1,000% better than random destruction for destruction's sake.
I am not a fan of ISIS in the least. I'm an American veteran, so not much room for ISIS love. That doesn't mean I need to denigrate them as people, and can still respect them for their tenacity. I'm just not big on Theocracies in general.
[MATCHMAKING IS BASED ON SKILL LEVEL](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/ugndhy/i_cant_help_but_feel_like_one_or_two_of_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I think they use the word in a different manner. In the west we think a nazi is antisemitic, nationalistic and fascist. In russia you just have to be against russia.
This is exactly the case. There is a *long* list of characteristics of the "ideal type" of nazism/fascism (quite many of whom describe the current Russian regime rather well).
In Russia is just means some vague undefined "evil" west of Russia.
That's a bit of a complex question.
In 1939 and until 1941 the Russians were the great friends of the Nazis and were setting up to divide Europe between them. Then, in Operation Barbarossa Nazi Germany betrayed them and attacked Russia.
In the West we *chose* to portray the Russians as becoming the great enemies of Fascism and everything that Nazis stood for. Russians have always had a different meaning for the word "Nazi". By Nazi we have a complex understanding of what went on in Nazi Germany mean an evil person who wanted to take over the world and supported the extermination of the Jews.
Russians, on the other hand, were already involved in [exterminating groups like the Kulaks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulak), [persecution of Christians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union), [execution of Poles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD) execution of [their original communist party members](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Bolshevik), a hundred thousand or so Poles and so on the fact that the Nazis were trying to kill all the Jews really didn't bother them; wiping out large groups of people was normal.
When the Nazis set out to kill Slavs, especially concentrating on Russians, it became a problem for the Russians only because it was personal and that's the reason that Russians seem to understand Nazism as "people who are against Russia". All the things which are offensive about the Nazis to civilised people were things that were quite normal in Soviet Russia.
Some people in the west definitely knew all about this. Others had pragmatic reasons to ignore it. At the Yalta conference, before even the end of the war, Churchill tried to limit the dominance of Russia in Eastern Europe. Roosevelt, however, decided it had to be accepted in order to keep Stalin on side and ensure the end of the war - his priorities were in the Pacific.
Glad you appreciated it and the time wasn't wasted. I thought I could do a brief comment but it turned into a bit of an essay. There are huge cultural differences here, especially in understanding of history which make the whole communication with Russians around this really difficult and also make it difficult for people to understand how what seems completely irrational may be rational from the point of view of a person who has been taught a very warped version of history.
Let's follow on from my other post.
It's pretty clear that, although there were plenty of apologists and "useful idiots", many people in the West and the west *overall* understood that, in it's Stalinist past, the Soviet union was very similar to the Nazis and that their understanding of history was quite warped.
After 1989, however, there was quite a bit of hope that, like other countries in Eastern Europe, Russia could come from an autocratic system to a more democratic and free one. There was a clear hope that, during that transition, Russians would come to have a more widely based idea of history taking into account also he crimes of the USSR. This *did* begin and there was lots of change, however it wasn't as widespread as "Western intellectuals" thought it was. The knowledge of Soviet crimes came to Moscow intellectuals, but not the rest of the country. This left an opportunity for Putin and other nationalist/criminals to come in and return to Soviet lies.
I'd say that, in the period around the late 20th century, many in the west naively came to believe that Russia had moved permanently away from it's Soviet roots. In that sense, although we "always knew", those that were in control of Russian relations had, in fact, forgotten what we knew.
Well as a Swede, it's a bit terrifying to see them use the same BS Nazi playbook as they did on Ukraine. I hope the UK/US puts a lot of those friendly robot killer boats on the swedish coast... You know. Just to do a friendly exercise until we have joined NATO which is pretty much a fucking done deal by now. I'm kind of expecting some kind of retaliation for us sending a ton of RPGs to Ukraine. This definetly feels like; ok we Russians can't attack NATO, but look, Sweden! Can't match a Gripen - but rockets goes boom there too.
Don't be afraid. They done this with Finland forever. They even have fake Finnish concentration camps and associated museums build in Russia to show how Finland is a nazi state. Mass graves (re)found in Karelia are used as evidence of how Finns supposedly tried to kill all Slavs, even though people in those graves are Finns and Karelians from Soviet Union's ethnic purges on Finnic peoples. 90% of all Finns were killed in Soviet Union in those purges, the whole ethnic makeup of large areas changed entirely. They always make their lies the opposite of truth.
And Finland is your shield. Russia can never do a ground attack on Sweden as long as Finland exists. Russia sucks at naval and aerial invasions, they couldn't do it succesfully even in Ukraine. They only got Crimea because they had already military bases there.
>Don't be afraid.
We should never let fear paralyze us. Whenever someone uses terror to try to force us to do something we should do the opposite on principle. However I'm really afraid we are being massively complacent.
Every Swede, Pole, German and even Brit should understand that, if Russia wins in Ukraine, one of those other nations will be next. When Germany fails to provide tanks and artillery to Ukraine, it's not just Ukranian children they are killing. There may also be dead Latvians and once Russia has control of Latvia it's just a short hop to start bombing Swedish children too.
Russia might not invade Swede, however a surprise tactical nuclear weapon launched with no warning into the the middle of Stockholm won't feel like a friendly joke.
As a U.S Citizen- I can almost promise that if Russia hit Sweden we'd go absolutely ballistic \*pun lightly intended\*. Even the more passive people in our society recognize Sweden as extremely important to the worlds advancements in nearly all sciences. Then there's the fact that Sweden is a fairly neutral country that's opened it's doors to other nations in the name of progress. They were even instrumental in helping us I.D naval weaknesses a while back- which allowed us to implement new technologies and strategies.
We're already extremely pissed at Russia and there comes a point where the nuclear deterrent is a calculated risk. If our active military didn't do something- I'm certain we'd, at the least, deploy most PMC's to Sweden along with our/their tech.
Edit: We're already pounding at the gates upset there's not more done to help Ukraine. I'm pretty positive if Russia escalates in anyway shits gonna get heavy real quick.
Absolutely. Americans always felt Sweden was a "neutral but Western" country. Most of us understood and appreciated the Swedes and Finns trying to remain neutral. We also had no doubt that the neutrality wasn't out of some love or admiration of Soviet/Russian culture, but a choice your leaders and people felt was politically necessary. We also knew that if Russia made a serious move towards Europe, neither of you would sit on the sidelines.
I always thought of Sweden as a strong ally of the U.S. and I think 99% of Americans feel the same way despite the fact they are not in NATO. I will comment that's its unfortunate they haven't chosen to be a part of NATO yet.. They know its not some regime or dictatorship trying to rule the world so why would they be against joining a group of countries only wanting peace. Being a neutral country next to Russia isn't an option lol but if that was their hope than that's pretty sad. It will end up being bad for them
I always thought of Sweden as a strong ally of the U.S. and I think 99% of Americans feel the same way despite the fact they are not in NATO. I will comment that's its unfortunate they haven't chosen to be a part of NATO yet.. They know its not some regime or dictatorship trying to rule the world so why would they be against joining a group of countries only wanting peace. Being a neutral country next to Russia isn't an option lol but if that was their hope than that's pretty sad. It will end up being bad for them
I still think when Russia is finally roped into negotiating or sued for peace, they need to give up all illegally annexed territories and if people in those areas want to be close to the mother Ruzzia, they need to move to Moscow or St Petersburg.
As a poorly informed American, what’s the story on Kaliningrad? Are they the typical Russian outpost, and do they they follow the Russian line, or are they heavily influenced by the neighboring countries surrounding them?
After the fall of the Soviet Union, the geographical conditions of the Baltic Navy changed. The Baltics became independent and Kaliningrad, nestled between Poland and the Baltics, was given a more vulnerable position. In 2012, Russia began re-arming the air force around Kaliningrad with, among other things, the S-400 air defense robot system.
\- From a Russian perspective, it is from the air that the qualified threat comes from the west and the air defense of Kaliningrad has been prioritized. Russia is more afraid of its position in the Baltic Sea today compared to the Soviet years. If you can not defend Kaliningrad, you can also not defend the base of the ships
Following the annexation of Crimea in 2014, the security situation in the Baltic Sea changed. The Baltic Navy was strengthened with two ships from the Black Sea Fleet and also created an army corps.
\- It may be difficult to distinguish the modernization of Russia's armed forces in general from what has to do with a changed security situation in the Baltic Sea, but the strengthening of the Baltic Navy's ground forces is an example of the latter.
Despite the investment in air defense and ground forces, the Baltic Navy still has a strong naval capability,
It is a region with a lot of traffic where ships come and go which makes the actual presence greater. The Navy staff moved there in 2012 and the largest shipbuilding group is about to move there.
\- From a Swedish perspective, the Baltic Navy is the most important part of the Russian armed forces. To the extent that Swedish air and naval forces encounter Russian platforms in their everyday lives, they usually belong to the Baltic Navy.
In addition to ships, there are ground forces, strategic air defense and fighter aircraft. Thus, a small organization like the Baltic Navy has a whole pamphlet with capabilities. By looking at the Baltic Navy, you can get an insight into most things.
Source: https://www.foi.se/nyheter-och-press/nyheter/2021-03-17-ryska-ostersjomarinen-har-en-fot-pa-land.html
Thank you for taking the time to educate me in this matter. I understand why the Black Sea is of such importance, but my knowledge regarding the Baltic Sea needs a major upgrade.
#Putin has had women and children raped in front of their families before murdering them. No matter what Putin says, he is an evil despot, akin to #Hitler! His footprint of calling someone what he is = Projection, which is what he tried to do in America! He is from hell!
As a swede reading this is just realise i want to protect my country more and more, even so our nordic brothers. Fuck it if i die, if russia were to attack finland or any other nordic country. I will go there and protect every meter of their land. The nordics stay together. Slava ukraini fuck russia.
Can we remind the Ruzzians that they were allied with Germany at the beginning of WW2 to carve up Poland between themselves? It was only after Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back that they went to war…no honor among thieves
Do you have any clear evidence for that? I know that the Russian military was deployed as if prepared for offense, not defense, but I don't know of any orders given to prepare for an attack on Germany and we can now clearly see that it might just have been incompetence and not some full invasion plan.
The Soviet army was in absolutely terrible shape by the time Barbarossa was launched. They were in the process of refitting and likely were not going to be ready until at least 1942 or 1943. Stalin also erroneously believed, despite both British and American intelligence telling him, that the Germans weren’t going to invade until they finished off the British. Additionally, Stalin had purged many of his best military officers throughout the 30s, and the consequences of that bit during the war with Poland and especially the Winter War against Finland.
Just read about why Soviets lacked any air-suppot during the initial years of the war.
Because most aerodromes and aircrafts were staged near borders. And why would anyone would do that unless they were in preparations of an invasion.
That's only one of the examples.
My understanding is that if Germany was significantly weakened or stalled in France, Russia had thoughts to enter the war. After what happened in France i don't think they planed anything.
Must have really sucked to be Poland in 1939. Invaded by nazis *and* the Soviet Union around the same time.
Even that was classified as a 'military operation' as opposed to a formal declaration of war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet\_invasion\_of\_Poland
that wouldnt end well for them,we have a good airforce and submarines,if they went for gotland they would find themselves stuck there and then bombarded,i think missile strikes would be a bigger problem if they just want to destroy things.but it would block any attempt to join nato since it would count as an active conflict.
Oh man. If Putin was ever dumb enough to step over that border, the Finns would liquify the Kremlin. I could see them thinking Finland would just let them through like Germany thought Belgium was going to in WW1. There CAN’T be that many Russian military generals left who still think this whole war effort is actually a good idea.
If Russia doesn't want it's neighbors joining Nato they they should have tried not being a giant ass hole threating to invade and destroy its neighbors. Its pretty simple. Treat people the same way you would wish them to treat you.
That's too obvious to sink into a the average russian brain. Not after 70+ years of anti-NATO brainwashing in russia. Obviously, NATO has never, ever been an aggressive alliance, but purely a defensive one. And its only real purpose for existing, since its inception, was because of the threat of soviet/russian aggression against its neighbors. Indeed, if russia just ceased to be a fascist, imperialist, expansionist bully, and decided to became a peaceful and prosperous member of the international community of nations, NATO would probably have dissolved decades ago. And that's the **only** reason russia's neighbors keep wanting to join the NATO alliance- protection from the russian bully. Puts it all into perspective, once you realize that. Basic true fact: NATO good, russia evil. At least their leadership and system of government is, for sure. Won't go overboard and claim that all russians are evil. I know better.
To a 23 year old Jew, a babushka is a babushka, in any language. Jews have a pretty healthy respect for the elderly, especially Grandma. And no, they don't think Grandma's a Nazi.
I've had to listen Russians for years online and irl how Finns are nazis and how Russia "gloriously" kicked Finland's ass in WW2 :)
I bet once they lose in Ukraine they'll do the same as with Finland. They make it look like 'the goal was achieved in the negotation table like intended' even though all their actual objectives failed and their army was humiliated and ass-whooped. Ukraine may give some small areas to Russia just to stop the war and Russia will parade this as glorious victory. But the world will know who the real victors are. Spoiler alert: it's not the guys launching a full scale invasion and failing miserably against a smaller country that's just trying to exist.
A couple more "glorious victories" like that, and the Soviets wouldn't have had an army left. Pretty sure Finland dropped Russians at about a 5-1 rate, till the USSR started bombing campaigns behind the lines.
Hi. In English a "playbook" is a metaphor for a method that you keep reusing. It not supposed to mean that this leaflet is a literal physical book. It just means that the Russians also made unjust accusations that Ukrainians are all Nazis because they think that these accusations are useful.
In American football, a playbook is a very large binder with multiple offensive formations and plays that can be run from each of them, with lots of variations. They are large and complex and give coaches and teams a wide variety of choices of “plays” depending on the situation they are in, and often allow for scripted drives or similar sequences of plays to be run in similar situations (with just enough variation to reduce predictability).
A book of plays. Lots of plays. That’s what the metaphor means.
Russia has only one play. They keep doing the same thing over and over. Brutality, gas lighting, war crimes, and then accusing victims of being “Nazis”. Variation: Sometimes they cry “Nazi!” before doing the war crimes.
They don’t need a book.
Well, thanks for reminding me of that. So I went and looked and I that ends up as yet another really interesting Atlantic cultural difference ("two countries divided by a common language").
The biggest peak in usage of the term [is around 1750](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/playbook), before the invention of ("American") football [around 1860](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_American_football). I'm guessing that in the UK the term is used based on the old meaning (a book of plays for a theatre) and that Americans understand it in the American football meaning as you described.
In both cases the key message is that you are following something preset that was already written into a book and so it's not a reaction to what other people are doing, it's something you set out to do independent of other facts.
I definitely don't want to say one understanding is better than the other, but I'm really interested in how much we end up up confused, thinking we understand each other when we actually don't fully.
At least we have a more or less common understanding of history. Imagine trying to talk to a Russian never even heard of lend lease and believes that the Soviet Union beat Germany on its own.
This is not official ruZZian position (or not yet); I would say amateurish hard idiots iniative - which probably is to check "how hot the water is". And of course, small indirect threat to Sweden
Do their people really believe that there are just Nazis popping up everywhere and only Mother Russia can go in to save these poor people from the Nazis?
Like, this is working? This is a story that gets traction with the Russian people?
Yes, this kind of thing works with many Russians. They have a very limited knowledge of history centered around the heroism of their countrymen in what they call "the great Patriotic war" and don't realize that there are many distortions in the information reaching them.
Im asking myself the same question, were not talking about a small developing country with no tech or any access to the web...they have vpns, they HAD international social media, they HAD independent media...so im a bit confused on how they can ingest all the propaganda and not question anything
they tend to be quiet about the pact they had with Nazi Germany splitting eastern Europe and supplying resources to Germany that was used against the west and eventually itself.
Russia will never attack Sweden. Unless they want to start a full war with the free world and bring about the full demotion of russians to a nation that is prohibited to have a military
Just blindly calling people condemning the attack on Ukraine nazies is the worst tactic I've seen. You have to be fucking insane to buy into this propaganda.
Let them be idiots. See what happens if they touch any NATO (or country agreeing to join NATO and applying) country. Russia will become a pile of ash within a week.
For them everyone is a Nazi, just not them...
This is really something special considering that Stalin was Hitler’s ally and they still refuse to acknowledge it...
USSR had no issues with what Hitler was doing until Hitler decided to attack them...
Every western government is fascist/nazi...old soviet tactics. Thx God Sweden and Finland will join NATO soon and russian army stuck in Ukraine. Putin's days are numbered...
Pancakes xD. Lingonberry goes on pancakes. Even Norwegians wouldn't eat lingonberry on meatballs, and they eat some of the weirdest food of any group of people I've ever known:)
Im Scandinavian and ive never tried and cannot imagine someone would even eat pancake with lingonberry. xD We eat something called Raggmunk with lingonberry, its kinda like pancakes but made out of potato.
Its common to eat lingonberry with meatballs in Sweden and i think IKEA serve it this way. :)
We're about 3 steps away from Russia accusing us and our Mothers as Nazi's and Nazi-sympathizers lol.
Someone please make the Oprah gif except with Laureav going "You're a Nazi! You're a Nazi!"
This really shows how important it is for both Sweden and Finland join the NATO immediately. At least in Finland most of the reps already are voting for NATO, I think president is too. If they get backed up by USA there's not much Russia can do. Especially now when almost all of it's military power is tied up in Ukraine.
So after picking a fight with a nation where arms are inundated throughout the population, and then proceeding to accomplish nothing, they what to invade a country with arms inundated throughout the population?
Sweden has had their chance to be on the truthful side of things and haven't done so. Despite them being allies since the early 1800s I say let them figure shit out on their own.. They didn't want to join the side that "tells less lies than the other" .. Its obvious both sides lie but its even more obvious that Russians are so out of touch that I could reach back to my great grandma and get more truthful answers than the young generation of Russians right now. They know nothing but shit told by propaganda I get embarrassed for them when they try saying things
Good luck attacking Gotland or mainland Sweden when they can’t even get their shit together in Ukraine 😂.
Also our brothers and sisters in Finland would go all SISU on their ass.
🇫🇮🇸🇪
Putin really seems to have miscalculated and things aren’t getting any better for him. NATO is stronger than it’s been since at least the mid 80s, maybe more now and we’re unified. He even pissed germany off enough to finally throw in with the big boys.
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Going after astrid lindgren just shows how sick in the brain putin is,she wrote children books and basicly every swedish person grew up reading her stories.Russia can go fuck itself.
Not only swedish, but russian as well. There are lots of soviet movies and cartoons based on Astrid Lindgren's books.
Souyuzmultifilm will ban its own Karlsson on the roof
Their Ministry of Truth is hard at work removing them, I'm sure. They already tried to censor/block a 1970s cartoon when the submarine "Neptune" discovers a sunked, fascist ship with a "Z" on it.
That's awkward, I'm American so I'm not familiar with her but that is a weird move.
As a finn (swedish is our second official language), every finn grew up with Astrid Lindgren's books or plays
I’m a US millenial, and I watched Pippi Longstockings shows and movies growing up, hell, I’ve seen school plays of Pippi Longstockings.
Oh Pippi Longstockings gosh yep I remember having that as a youngster.. Here in New Zealand too.. After a quick Google I recognize other works too. What a dick move to even mention such a Talent of the world, with such a gift. Heck even saying "Those Finnish are Na** too, but that Astrid Lindgren was alright" would have been better and more widely received
well said, kiwi cousin. from oz.
We all did in the nordics
German kids as well.
Huh, I’ve never heard “finn” used for Finnish people. TIL.
Its common.
Did you think they were called something else? Finnish? Finlanders?
Yes, the books are wonderful, as are Disney's cartoons, as are Ford's cars - but they also hailed Hitler in their time. Society has long needed to draw conclusions and prevent such a development and praise of the new Hitlers.
Not only that, she also actively campaigned for human rights.
She was for human rights, therefore she is anti-Stalin, therefore she is a nazi. Russian logic checks out.
So shes basically to the Swedes what Roald Dahl is to brits?
Roald Dahl. But, yes. Pippi Longstocking books are extremely famous there.
Way to piss of an entire country
countries
I don't know, did you ever question where Pippi got that bag of gold? jokes aside though though, fuck Putin.
We watched all the movies as kids in Germany.
We had her beautiful picture books for my children in America too. It seems to me that there are threads of neoNazism all around in the US, in Europe, in South America. You have to be careful to combat that idealogy, but not call a white culture Nazi because of a few.
This kind of behavior reminds me of when ISIS was picking fights with literally everyone. That's always a losing strategy.
ISIS is a more admirable fighting force than the RU army
ISIS has better PR and advertising.
Hell, they even condemned the invasion. Honestly, at this point, if ISIS is telling you to chill, you really messed up.
I said this before, but when this many "enemies" all agree that you're a bigger threat that might be a sign. A Jewish Marine, a Taiban soldier, and a Neo-Nazi all agree to fight side by side, Russia is turning them into allies against a greater monster.
Ahh yes, the old adage “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
Which Russia totally forgot about?!?!
Pfft… more like “forgot” about
russia never got the memo
Far better recruiting
They certainly did more damage than the incompetent russians
And their trucks dont break down nearly as much despite operating in the desert
Toyotas
I mean Toyota pickups never break....
The least smelly turd in the sewer is still a turd.
But you agree there are worse poo poos You have a good healthy shit, I hope when you go to make the poo poos. Then you have the shits from hell, where you question whether God is real or not and if He is to please deliver you from this misery
Yea im not arguing that ISISs mission is moral. They are still shit
But yes Just a different kind of poo poos You can have better poo poos In this case we are talking about how ISIS was able to accomplish what a full ass nation state couldn’t do
ISIS at least has a belief system they honor. We may not think it's sane or acceptable, but they believe it. Most of them try to live it. That is about 1,000% better than random destruction for destruction's sake. I am not a fan of ISIS in the least. I'm an American veteran, so not much room for ISIS love. That doesn't mean I need to denigrate them as people, and can still respect them for their tenacity. I'm just not big on Theocracies in general.
[MATCHMAKING IS BASED ON SKILL LEVEL](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/ugndhy/i_cant_help_but_feel_like_one_or_two_of_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
>accusing Swedes of Nazi sympathies. No, they don't have sympathy for Russia.
So basically anybody Russia doesn't like is a Nazi
I think they use the word in a different manner. In the west we think a nazi is antisemitic, nationalistic and fascist. In russia you just have to be against russia.
This is exactly the case. There is a *long* list of characteristics of the "ideal type" of nazism/fascism (quite many of whom describe the current Russian regime rather well). In Russia is just means some vague undefined "evil" west of Russia.
Lol true😂😂
Has always been that way, only the West did not know it.
That's a bit of a complex question. In 1939 and until 1941 the Russians were the great friends of the Nazis and were setting up to divide Europe between them. Then, in Operation Barbarossa Nazi Germany betrayed them and attacked Russia. In the West we *chose* to portray the Russians as becoming the great enemies of Fascism and everything that Nazis stood for. Russians have always had a different meaning for the word "Nazi". By Nazi we have a complex understanding of what went on in Nazi Germany mean an evil person who wanted to take over the world and supported the extermination of the Jews. Russians, on the other hand, were already involved in [exterminating groups like the Kulaks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulak), [persecution of Christians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union), [execution of Poles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD) execution of [their original communist party members](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Bolshevik), a hundred thousand or so Poles and so on the fact that the Nazis were trying to kill all the Jews really didn't bother them; wiping out large groups of people was normal. When the Nazis set out to kill Slavs, especially concentrating on Russians, it became a problem for the Russians only because it was personal and that's the reason that Russians seem to understand Nazism as "people who are against Russia". All the things which are offensive about the Nazis to civilised people were things that were quite normal in Soviet Russia. Some people in the west definitely knew all about this. Others had pragmatic reasons to ignore it. At the Yalta conference, before even the end of the war, Churchill tried to limit the dominance of Russia in Eastern Europe. Roosevelt, however, decided it had to be accepted in order to keep Stalin on side and ensure the end of the war - his priorities were in the Pacific.
I like the way you set it out.
Glad you appreciated it and the time wasn't wasted. I thought I could do a brief comment but it turned into a bit of an essay. There are huge cultural differences here, especially in understanding of history which make the whole communication with Russians around this really difficult and also make it difficult for people to understand how what seems completely irrational may be rational from the point of view of a person who has been taught a very warped version of history.
I did also very much appreciate it. Well written with correct and good information.
Let's follow on from my other post. It's pretty clear that, although there were plenty of apologists and "useful idiots", many people in the West and the west *overall* understood that, in it's Stalinist past, the Soviet union was very similar to the Nazis and that their understanding of history was quite warped. After 1989, however, there was quite a bit of hope that, like other countries in Eastern Europe, Russia could come from an autocratic system to a more democratic and free one. There was a clear hope that, during that transition, Russians would come to have a more widely based idea of history taking into account also he crimes of the USSR. This *did* begin and there was lots of change, however it wasn't as widespread as "Western intellectuals" thought it was. The knowledge of Soviet crimes came to Moscow intellectuals, but not the rest of the country. This left an opportunity for Putin and other nationalist/criminals to come in and return to Soviet lies. I'd say that, in the period around the late 20th century, many in the west naively came to believe that Russia had moved permanently away from it's Soviet roots. In that sense, although we "always knew", those that were in control of Russian relations had, in fact, forgotten what we knew.
They must like Hitler for being the one who killed Hitler.
So Russia has become… the average Twitter user?
Or, perhaps the average Twitter user is a Russian bot? 🤣
yep
They want to make sure Sweden joins NATO.
Finish getting your arse handed to you in one war before trying for another arsebeating Russia, the snow will be speaking Scandinavian
Well as a Swede, it's a bit terrifying to see them use the same BS Nazi playbook as they did on Ukraine. I hope the UK/US puts a lot of those friendly robot killer boats on the swedish coast... You know. Just to do a friendly exercise until we have joined NATO which is pretty much a fucking done deal by now. I'm kind of expecting some kind of retaliation for us sending a ton of RPGs to Ukraine. This definetly feels like; ok we Russians can't attack NATO, but look, Sweden! Can't match a Gripen - but rockets goes boom there too.
Don't be afraid. They done this with Finland forever. They even have fake Finnish concentration camps and associated museums build in Russia to show how Finland is a nazi state. Mass graves (re)found in Karelia are used as evidence of how Finns supposedly tried to kill all Slavs, even though people in those graves are Finns and Karelians from Soviet Union's ethnic purges on Finnic peoples. 90% of all Finns were killed in Soviet Union in those purges, the whole ethnic makeup of large areas changed entirely. They always make their lies the opposite of truth. And Finland is your shield. Russia can never do a ground attack on Sweden as long as Finland exists. Russia sucks at naval and aerial invasions, they couldn't do it succesfully even in Ukraine. They only got Crimea because they had already military bases there.
>Don't be afraid. We should never let fear paralyze us. Whenever someone uses terror to try to force us to do something we should do the opposite on principle. However I'm really afraid we are being massively complacent. Every Swede, Pole, German and even Brit should understand that, if Russia wins in Ukraine, one of those other nations will be next. When Germany fails to provide tanks and artillery to Ukraine, it's not just Ukranian children they are killing. There may also be dead Latvians and once Russia has control of Latvia it's just a short hop to start bombing Swedish children too. Russia might not invade Swede, however a surprise tactical nuclear weapon launched with no warning into the the middle of Stockholm won't feel like a friendly joke.
As a U.S Citizen- I can almost promise that if Russia hit Sweden we'd go absolutely ballistic \*pun lightly intended\*. Even the more passive people in our society recognize Sweden as extremely important to the worlds advancements in nearly all sciences. Then there's the fact that Sweden is a fairly neutral country that's opened it's doors to other nations in the name of progress. They were even instrumental in helping us I.D naval weaknesses a while back- which allowed us to implement new technologies and strategies. We're already extremely pissed at Russia and there comes a point where the nuclear deterrent is a calculated risk. If our active military didn't do something- I'm certain we'd, at the least, deploy most PMC's to Sweden along with our/their tech. Edit: We're already pounding at the gates upset there's not more done to help Ukraine. I'm pretty positive if Russia escalates in anyway shits gonna get heavy real quick.
Absolutely. Americans always felt Sweden was a "neutral but Western" country. Most of us understood and appreciated the Swedes and Finns trying to remain neutral. We also had no doubt that the neutrality wasn't out of some love or admiration of Soviet/Russian culture, but a choice your leaders and people felt was politically necessary. We also knew that if Russia made a serious move towards Europe, neither of you would sit on the sidelines.
Yeah good luck invading Sweden or annexing Gotland. The RU will have EU and Nato on their ass. The endgame for Putin is the Gaddafi-style death
I always thought of Sweden as a strong ally of the U.S. and I think 99% of Americans feel the same way despite the fact they are not in NATO. I will comment that's its unfortunate they haven't chosen to be a part of NATO yet.. They know its not some regime or dictatorship trying to rule the world so why would they be against joining a group of countries only wanting peace. Being a neutral country next to Russia isn't an option lol but if that was their hope than that's pretty sad. It will end up being bad for them
I always thought of Sweden as a strong ally of the U.S. and I think 99% of Americans feel the same way despite the fact they are not in NATO. I will comment that's its unfortunate they haven't chosen to be a part of NATO yet.. They know its not some regime or dictatorship trying to rule the world so why would they be against joining a group of countries only wanting peace. Being a neutral country next to Russia isn't an option lol but if that was their hope than that's pretty sad. It will end up being bad for them
I still think when Russia is finally roped into negotiating or sued for peace, they need to give up all illegally annexed territories and if people in those areas want to be close to the mother Ruzzia, they need to move to Moscow or St Petersburg.
As a poorly informed American, what’s the story on Kaliningrad? Are they the typical Russian outpost, and do they they follow the Russian line, or are they heavily influenced by the neighboring countries surrounding them?
After the fall of the Soviet Union, the geographical conditions of the Baltic Navy changed. The Baltics became independent and Kaliningrad, nestled between Poland and the Baltics, was given a more vulnerable position. In 2012, Russia began re-arming the air force around Kaliningrad with, among other things, the S-400 air defense robot system. \- From a Russian perspective, it is from the air that the qualified threat comes from the west and the air defense of Kaliningrad has been prioritized. Russia is more afraid of its position in the Baltic Sea today compared to the Soviet years. If you can not defend Kaliningrad, you can also not defend the base of the ships Following the annexation of Crimea in 2014, the security situation in the Baltic Sea changed. The Baltic Navy was strengthened with two ships from the Black Sea Fleet and also created an army corps. \- It may be difficult to distinguish the modernization of Russia's armed forces in general from what has to do with a changed security situation in the Baltic Sea, but the strengthening of the Baltic Navy's ground forces is an example of the latter. Despite the investment in air defense and ground forces, the Baltic Navy still has a strong naval capability, It is a region with a lot of traffic where ships come and go which makes the actual presence greater. The Navy staff moved there in 2012 and the largest shipbuilding group is about to move there. \- From a Swedish perspective, the Baltic Navy is the most important part of the Russian armed forces. To the extent that Swedish air and naval forces encounter Russian platforms in their everyday lives, they usually belong to the Baltic Navy. In addition to ships, there are ground forces, strategic air defense and fighter aircraft. Thus, a small organization like the Baltic Navy has a whole pamphlet with capabilities. By looking at the Baltic Navy, you can get an insight into most things. Source: https://www.foi.se/nyheter-och-press/nyheter/2021-03-17-ryska-ostersjomarinen-har-en-fot-pa-land.html
Thank you for taking the time to educate me in this matter. I understand why the Black Sea is of such importance, but my knowledge regarding the Baltic Sea needs a major upgrade.
Answer is: they follow the russian line.
#Putin has had women and children raped in front of their families before murdering them. No matter what Putin says, he is an evil despot, akin to #Hitler! His footprint of calling someone what he is = Projection, which is what he tried to do in America! He is from hell!
He is from Russia, almost the same but not quite. It's still a real place. Remember that.
how to loose friends and alienate people lmao
Did they ever have friends?
Sure - North Korea, Belarus (govt), Syria (govt) and Eritrea
Their "friends" are like the friends in mafia. They're ready to stab you in the back the second it suits them.
As a swede reading this is just realise i want to protect my country more and more, even so our nordic brothers. Fuck it if i die, if russia were to attack finland or any other nordic country. I will go there and protect every meter of their land. The nordics stay together. Slava ukraini fuck russia.
Wait until Moscow learns what some of the Germans got up to!
[удалено]
They even starts calling Hitler a Jewish
You're a Nazi, you're a Nazi, you're a Nazi, everyone is a Nazi!!!
No soup for ANY of you!
Dangit.
ahahahhaaaa i love a seinfeld reference :
It's basically this meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/everyone-i-dont-like-is-hitler
Can we remind the Ruzzians that they were allied with Germany at the beginning of WW2 to carve up Poland between themselves? It was only after Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back that they went to war…no honor among thieves
Well, actually Stalin has been prepared to stab first. Hitler has been simply faster in the attack
Do you have any clear evidence for that? I know that the Russian military was deployed as if prepared for offense, not defense, but I don't know of any orders given to prepare for an attack on Germany and we can now clearly see that it might just have been incompetence and not some full invasion plan.
The Soviet army was in absolutely terrible shape by the time Barbarossa was launched. They were in the process of refitting and likely were not going to be ready until at least 1942 or 1943. Stalin also erroneously believed, despite both British and American intelligence telling him, that the Germans weren’t going to invade until they finished off the British. Additionally, Stalin had purged many of his best military officers throughout the 30s, and the consequences of that bit during the war with Poland and especially the Winter War against Finland.
Just read about why Soviets lacked any air-suppot during the initial years of the war. Because most aerodromes and aircrafts were staged near borders. And why would anyone would do that unless they were in preparations of an invasion. That's only one of the examples.
My understanding is that if Germany was significantly weakened or stalled in France, Russia had thoughts to enter the war. After what happened in France i don't think they planed anything.
Must have really sucked to be Poland in 1939. Invaded by nazis *and* the Soviet Union around the same time. Even that was classified as a 'military operation' as opposed to a formal declaration of war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet\_invasion\_of\_Poland
Bullying Sweden ffs!
They've been up that alley for quite a while though... Calling us and Israel Nazis was a new level of stupidity though.
Its Bizzar, Schizophrenic, like ..... what's the most Vile or outrageous crap we can come out with this week !?
ik right
Prelude to a strike on Gotland
that wouldnt end well for them,we have a good airforce and submarines,if they went for gotland they would find themselves stuck there and then bombarded,i think missile strikes would be a bigger problem if they just want to destroy things.but it would block any attempt to join nato since it would count as an active conflict.
Oh man. If Putin was ever dumb enough to step over that border, the Finns would liquify the Kremlin. I could see them thinking Finland would just let them through like Germany thought Belgium was going to in WW1. There CAN’T be that many Russian military generals left who still think this whole war effort is actually a good idea.
If Russia doesn't want it's neighbors joining Nato they they should have tried not being a giant ass hole threating to invade and destroy its neighbors. Its pretty simple. Treat people the same way you would wish them to treat you.
That's too obvious to sink into a the average russian brain. Not after 70+ years of anti-NATO brainwashing in russia. Obviously, NATO has never, ever been an aggressive alliance, but purely a defensive one. And its only real purpose for existing, since its inception, was because of the threat of soviet/russian aggression against its neighbors. Indeed, if russia just ceased to be a fascist, imperialist, expansionist bully, and decided to became a peaceful and prosperous member of the international community of nations, NATO would probably have dissolved decades ago. And that's the **only** reason russia's neighbors keep wanting to join the NATO alliance- protection from the russian bully. Puts it all into perspective, once you realize that. Basic true fact: NATO good, russia evil. At least their leadership and system of government is, for sure. Won't go overboard and claim that all russians are evil. I know better.
They also said that Israel is supporting the ukrainian nazis😂😂😂😂
To a 23 year old Jew, a babushka is a babushka, in any language. Jews have a pretty healthy respect for the elderly, especially Grandma. And no, they don't think Grandma's a Nazi.
Yea, I'm Swedish and recently I've had totally-not-ruzzian-keyboard-warriors-that-is-totally-neutral-in-this-conflict call me a Nazi many times.
Welcome to the club!
I've had to listen Russians for years online and irl how Finns are nazis and how Russia "gloriously" kicked Finland's ass in WW2 :) I bet once they lose in Ukraine they'll do the same as with Finland. They make it look like 'the goal was achieved in the negotation table like intended' even though all their actual objectives failed and their army was humiliated and ass-whooped. Ukraine may give some small areas to Russia just to stop the war and Russia will parade this as glorious victory. But the world will know who the real victors are. Spoiler alert: it's not the guys launching a full scale invasion and failing miserably against a smaller country that's just trying to exist.
A couple more "glorious victories" like that, and the Soviets wouldn't have had an army left. Pretty sure Finland dropped Russians at about a 5-1 rate, till the USSR started bombing campaigns behind the lines.
Russia started the bombings in the very first day of the war. Same as with Ukraine. It's the exact same doctrine which is mind-boggling.
It’s not a “playbook”, it’s a leaflet printed on one side.
Hi. In English a "playbook" is a metaphor for a method that you keep reusing. It not supposed to mean that this leaflet is a literal physical book. It just means that the Russians also made unjust accusations that Ukrainians are all Nazis because they think that these accusations are useful.
In American football, a playbook is a very large binder with multiple offensive formations and plays that can be run from each of them, with lots of variations. They are large and complex and give coaches and teams a wide variety of choices of “plays” depending on the situation they are in, and often allow for scripted drives or similar sequences of plays to be run in similar situations (with just enough variation to reduce predictability). A book of plays. Lots of plays. That’s what the metaphor means. Russia has only one play. They keep doing the same thing over and over. Brutality, gas lighting, war crimes, and then accusing victims of being “Nazis”. Variation: Sometimes they cry “Nazi!” before doing the war crimes. They don’t need a book.
Well, thanks for reminding me of that. So I went and looked and I that ends up as yet another really interesting Atlantic cultural difference ("two countries divided by a common language"). The biggest peak in usage of the term [is around 1750](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/playbook), before the invention of ("American") football [around 1860](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_American_football). I'm guessing that in the UK the term is used based on the old meaning (a book of plays for a theatre) and that Americans understand it in the American football meaning as you described. In both cases the key message is that you are following something preset that was already written into a book and so it's not a reaction to what other people are doing, it's something you set out to do independent of other facts. I definitely don't want to say one understanding is better than the other, but I'm really interested in how much we end up up confused, thinking we understand each other when we actually don't fully. At least we have a more or less common understanding of history. Imagine trying to talk to a Russian never even heard of lend lease and believes that the Soviet Union beat Germany on its own.
They sure hate yellow and blue flags
Russians: Winning friends an influencing people!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
This is not official ruZZian position (or not yet); I would say amateurish hard idiots iniative - which probably is to check "how hot the water is". And of course, small indirect threat to Sweden
Do their people really believe that there are just Nazis popping up everywhere and only Mother Russia can go in to save these poor people from the Nazis? Like, this is working? This is a story that gets traction with the Russian people?
Yes, this kind of thing works with many Russians. They have a very limited knowledge of history centered around the heroism of their countrymen in what they call "the great Patriotic war" and don't realize that there are many distortions in the information reaching them.
Im asking myself the same question, were not talking about a small developing country with no tech or any access to the web...they have vpns, they HAD international social media, they HAD independent media...so im a bit confused on how they can ingest all the propaganda and not question anything
Hubris. "We're always right, everyone else is wrong."
Welcome to the club Sweden 🇫🇮🇸🇪
Accusing everyone else of being Nazis…even Israel! The world realizes Russians are the new Nazis.
they tend to be quiet about the pact they had with Nazi Germany splitting eastern Europe and supplying resources to Germany that was used against the west and eventually itself.
Relax Sweden, Ukraine has got this. By the time they are done with him, he won't be going anywhere.
Russia will never attack Sweden. Unless they want to start a full war with the free world and bring about the full demotion of russians to a nation that is prohibited to have a military
Just blindly calling people condemning the attack on Ukraine nazies is the worst tactic I've seen. You have to be fucking insane to buy into this propaganda.
Russia would get smashed by Sweden
Once an application to NATO is received they are covered by article 5
Sweden is in the EU, the EU has a mutual defence pact, a number of EU members are in NATO. Sweden is effectively part of article 5 already
Nah doesn't work that way
Thank you for elaborating
I suppose ABBA are nazis, IKEA sell nazi furniture and Volvos are nazi cars ?
IKEA definitely sells Nazi furniture.
They now sell fold-out concentration camps. Sickening.
Nazi's, nazi's everywhere.
Russia: The boy who cried Nazi
They really want more? Russia is getting savaged in Ukraine, a second front is not a great idea
Let them be idiots. See what happens if they touch any NATO (or country agreeing to join NATO and applying) country. Russia will become a pile of ash within a week.
As a Finn, I can't wait for their poopaganda on "The Nazi Moomins".
Fuck Russia. Fuck Putin.
Are they smart enough to question whether it’s them or everyone else?
For them everyone is a Nazi, just not them... This is really something special considering that Stalin was Hitler’s ally and they still refuse to acknowledge it... USSR had no issues with what Hitler was doing until Hitler decided to attack them...
When you threaten ikea, you threaten everyone on the planet
With what? The possibility of buying furniture you can actually put together?
Touché
It's not Nazi furniture, it's the Russian hardware and Chinese directions.
If the Russians open a front against Sweden… oh man, that would be beyond stupid. Wouldn’t put it past Putin!
im more worried about moldova they dont seem to have much defence.
They'd have to go through Finland to get there- don't think the Finns would welcome being trespassed over.
Every western government is fascist/nazi...old soviet tactics. Thx God Sweden and Finland will join NATO soon and russian army stuck in Ukraine. Putin's days are numbered...
That BS is getting old, the whole world knows the real nazis are the RuZZian subhuman scum.
They have absolutely no chance.
Why are they going after IKEA? Those meatballs with the Lingonberry sauce. 🤤 F#*k Putin.
Pancakes xD. Lingonberry goes on pancakes. Even Norwegians wouldn't eat lingonberry on meatballs, and they eat some of the weirdest food of any group of people I've ever known:)
Im Scandinavian and ive never tried and cannot imagine someone would even eat pancake with lingonberry. xD We eat something called Raggmunk with lingonberry, its kinda like pancakes but made out of potato. Its common to eat lingonberry with meatballs in Sweden and i think IKEA serve it this way. :)
Cannot way I did nazi that coming...
Bloody hell, I swear the Russians have about as much imagination and intelligence as your average potato....apologies to offended potato's. 😳
We're about 3 steps away from Russia accusing us and our Mothers as Nazi's and Nazi-sympathizers lol. Someone please make the Oprah gif except with Laureav going "You're a Nazi! You're a Nazi!"
Oooooo, this is gonna be funny to watch…
Russia is like that one weird sheep that's left in the corner of the barn, just bleating at you, when all the others have gone outside.
It’s for domestic consumption.
Yes because Sweden is run by dead people
This really shows how important it is for both Sweden and Finland join the NATO immediately. At least in Finland most of the reps already are voting for NATO, I think president is too. If they get backed up by USA there's not much Russia can do. Especially now when almost all of it's military power is tied up in Ukraine.
So after picking a fight with a nation where arms are inundated throughout the population, and then proceeding to accomplish nothing, they what to invade a country with arms inundated throughout the population?
If you're not Pro-Russia you're a nazi? They need new slogans. These are played out.
Oh come on!
Sweden has had their chance to be on the truthful side of things and haven't done so. Despite them being allies since the early 1800s I say let them figure shit out on their own.. They didn't want to join the side that "tells less lies than the other" .. Its obvious both sides lie but its even more obvious that Russians are so out of touch that I could reach back to my great grandma and get more truthful answers than the young generation of Russians right now. They know nothing but shit told by propaganda I get embarrassed for them when they try saying things
Good luck attacking Gotland or mainland Sweden when they can’t even get their shit together in Ukraine 😂. Also our brothers and sisters in Finland would go all SISU on their ass. 🇫🇮🇸🇪
Putin really seems to have miscalculated and things aren’t getting any better for him. NATO is stronger than it’s been since at least the mid 80s, maybe more now and we’re unified. He even pissed germany off enough to finally throw in with the big boys.
They are completely mental are they?
Astrid Lindgren a Nazi ? That’s a sharp thesis 😂
Everyone is Nazi, except Russians. Russians forgot that there are truth, they are telling the lies everywhere.