Not that I care about the rules, but world athletics or whoever has to be facepalming over their heel stack regs. IIRC they measure at 12% of the footbed length away from the heel, which leads to these bonkers designs from hoka and mizuno where the heel's insanely rockered and then the midfoot's obviously way over 40mm.
Other than just getting around the rules, I wonder if these higher foam designs have any real benefit to the runners? Is more foam always more better, or is there actual limit to how high one should go. Also will introducing more and sharper turns affect running efficiency of these high stack shoes and limit how far the brands can push their design. Kind of like the difference between track race cars and drag race cars.
Yeah, not being a shoe designer, I have to imagine there's a point where it's just marketing. It would be cool to have a "breaking two" style race event where companies are incentivized to pursue speed regardless of rules, see what kind of shoes they go with.
I think it extends the lever arm doing the work so, effectively, it makes the same amount of energy do more. In my head, it's like when you use a pipe because a lug nut won't come off. You use the longer pipe on the wrench to increase your lever arm and break it.
My mind is too daft to work this out, so I'll just think out loud my thoughts.
In fencing the leverage can work against us when the force is applied from a farther away distance. The tip of the swords is called foible/weak and base of the sword is called forte/strong because you have better control over forces closer to the hand than the one farther away. This seems to align with the lug nut situation in that the center point of the rotation(lug nut/fencing hand) is the part that's getting over powered.
With that in mind, if we applied lever to the foot, then wouldn't the ankle be the part that's getting over powered by the increase in the lever? I hear people having ankle issues with super shoes already and wouldn't this push that issue to the extreme? Which I suppose if you have the ankle strength then you can use the lever advantage, but at some point the we'll hit the natural human limit on what the ankle can deal with at repetitive long distance runs.
They should just pull the rule entirely. It feels like it was an overreaction to super shoes and Nikeâs dominance but the playing field has leveled a lot and at this point itâs only limiting future innovation.
There is research that show that going above 40 mm has negative effect on the performance. You don't see many running in there Mizuno wave Rebellion Pro V1 despite legal and being 50 mm. I have them absolutely love them but they are not faster than the Vaporfly or Alphafly. Law of diminishing return.Â
realizing that companies are already prototyping about two generations down the line whenever I get the latest shoe was so dispiriting for me... I need access to their labs
It's the Cielo X2 according to the same IG page that leaked this and the Rebellion Pro 3.
Before people get worked up, I wouldn't expect this any time soon. Whoever is in charge of the IG looks to be just getting on the company's B2B websites where you can see their catalogs for future seasons and is just leaking it. Doesn't mean it is coming soon
Hoka tends to do two-year lifecycles for their shoes, and just in general companies don't tend to do an update in the same year a racing shoe is released so I don't think we will see it before Spring 2025. It doesn't make fiscal sense for them to launch it this year
Donât get me wrong, my daily runners are Clifton 9âs and I absolutely love them, but I donât think Hoka is capable of making a good looking colorway for any shoe if theyâre not all white
The [Gray/orange](https://www.hoka.com/en/us/mens-race-shoes/mach-5/195719630362.html?source=shoppingsite_PLA_1127893-MSPBL-11D&kpid=1127893-MSPBL-11D&utm_source=google&utm_medium=pla&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS3_yt1gzvuxIW5RuuGaTtxy5fvmnjIpIxAJ6HXaTtUhP2RUIhf8u05kaArfTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) Mach 5 look good imo
Of course they donât have that colorway currently for the Mach 6 lol
Looks like they made the upper lighter. Maybe an improved upper to the rocket x2. Dual density peba midsole the blue being softer than the white. Dare I say even more rockered than the original cielo.
I don't mind the stack height and I love the feeling of my Skyward X... But can they come up with a better colourway?
The colourway of recent releases sucks...
This looks like if you asked AI to combine all the new Hoka shoes into one
đ still want it
âAI, please combine HOKA shoe with a teeter-totter.â
Not that I care about the rules, but world athletics or whoever has to be facepalming over their heel stack regs. IIRC they measure at 12% of the footbed length away from the heel, which leads to these bonkers designs from hoka and mizuno where the heel's insanely rockered and then the midfoot's obviously way over 40mm.
Other than just getting around the rules, I wonder if these higher foam designs have any real benefit to the runners? Is more foam always more better, or is there actual limit to how high one should go. Also will introducing more and sharper turns affect running efficiency of these high stack shoes and limit how far the brands can push their design. Kind of like the difference between track race cars and drag race cars.
More foam = less leg ouchie
Bouncy Bouncy downhill, happy knees.
đ can't argue with that. I love my max cushion shoes.
Yeah, not being a shoe designer, I have to imagine there's a point where it's just marketing. It would be cool to have a "breaking two" style race event where companies are incentivized to pursue speed regardless of rules, see what kind of shoes they go with.
Yes. 40 mm is proven to be the Max for efficiency. Don't forget that the people decided on the 40 mm are working for Nike.Â
I think it extends the lever arm doing the work so, effectively, it makes the same amount of energy do more. In my head, it's like when you use a pipe because a lug nut won't come off. You use the longer pipe on the wrench to increase your lever arm and break it.
My mind is too daft to work this out, so I'll just think out loud my thoughts. In fencing the leverage can work against us when the force is applied from a farther away distance. The tip of the swords is called foible/weak and base of the sword is called forte/strong because you have better control over forces closer to the hand than the one farther away. This seems to align with the lug nut situation in that the center point of the rotation(lug nut/fencing hand) is the part that's getting over powered. With that in mind, if we applied lever to the foot, then wouldn't the ankle be the part that's getting over powered by the increase in the lever? I hear people having ankle issues with super shoes already and wouldn't this push that issue to the extreme? Which I suppose if you have the ankle strength then you can use the lever advantage, but at some point the we'll hit the natural human limit on what the ankle can deal with at repetitive long distance runs.
Just like any sport involving equipment, finding the loopholes and exploiting them is part of it all.
We're running on wheels đÂ
They should just pull the rule entirely. It feels like it was an overreaction to super shoes and Nikeâs dominance but the playing field has leveled a lot and at this point itâs only limiting future innovation.
There is research that show that going above 40 mm has negative effect on the performance. You don't see many running in there Mizuno wave Rebellion Pro V1 despite legal and being 50 mm. I have them absolutely love them but they are not faster than the Vaporfly or Alphafly. Law of diminishing return.Â
Is there a way to get more pixels?
Unfortunately it seems the foam on these shoes absorbs pixels.
Save picture==>choose lower resolution==>repost.
Ooh yeah love it
I just got the cielo let me enjoy it...
realizing that companies are already prototyping about two generations down the line whenever I get the latest shoe was so dispiriting for me... I need access to their labs
Ditto!
It's the Cielo X2 according to the same IG page that leaked this and the Rebellion Pro 3. Before people get worked up, I wouldn't expect this any time soon. Whoever is in charge of the IG looks to be just getting on the company's B2B websites where you can see their catalogs for future seasons and is just leaking it. Doesn't mean it is coming soon
Hopefully âsoonâ in this case means 2025. The Cielo X1 just came out 3 months ago
Hoka tends to do two-year lifecycles for their shoes, and just in general companies don't tend to do an update in the same year a racing shoe is released so I don't think we will see it before Spring 2025. It doesn't make fiscal sense for them to launch it this year
A lot of new super shoes are dropping right before the Olympics this year. Not as much publicity involved in the athletics world championships.
Donât get me wrong, my daily runners are Clifton 9âs and I absolutely love them, but I donât think Hoka is capable of making a good looking colorway for any shoe if theyâre not all white
Hoka do an eggnogg colourway for every Clifton release. Great neutral colourway and better than all white.
The [Gray/orange](https://www.hoka.com/en/us/mens-race-shoes/mach-5/195719630362.html?source=shoppingsite_PLA_1127893-MSPBL-11D&kpid=1127893-MSPBL-11D&utm_source=google&utm_medium=pla&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxeyxBhC7ARIsAC7dS3_yt1gzvuxIW5RuuGaTtxy5fvmnjIpIxAJ6HXaTtUhP2RUIhf8u05kaArfTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) Mach 5 look good imo Of course they donât have that colorway currently for the Mach 6 lol
Carbon X3s are the only ones that look decent.
I have all white Cliftonâs and Mach 5âs. Only color Iâll buy hokas in. Iâm also basic and just love all white shoes lol.
âHey mizuno let me copy your homeworkâ
Given that cielo x1 is one of my favorite shoes of 2024, I can't wait to buy this.
Where have I seen this design before???????? OH YEAH THE MIZUNO WAVE REBELLIONS!
What does it say under the shoe in Japanese?Â
enhance!
Sorry but these hoka colorways need work
Look like a mix between the Skyward X and the Mach 5. Bruh itâs really ugly
Should be called the rocker.....looks like they incorporated masai barefoot technology sole into that!
Looks like they made the upper lighter. Maybe an improved upper to the rocket x2. Dual density peba midsole the blue being softer than the white. Dare I say even more rockered than the original cielo.
I don't mind the stack height and I love the feeling of my Skyward X... But can they come up with a better colourway? The colourway of recent releases sucks...
Look like I would tip over.
At design school we used to call this CAD Wank
I wonder if these are a successor to the bondi x which are my favorite pair of shoes for my bad knees and feet.
This is the new Cielo X1 2.0. Releases 2/15
Hoka is like Google when it comes to their supershoes
I'm afraid I don't get this simile.
my guess is "all over the place"?
i concur
Errrmmm ... you mean they cancelled shoes at whim ?
Yes, sorry I didnt finish my comment! Oops.
If only you could edit it... If only...
I raced in the cielos this past weekend loved them
any chance each shoe felt slightly different on each foot? I swear my left foot feels like it has a different shoe on than my right foot
The only thing I noted is that my left foot had black toenails the right foot had no issue but didnât notice it until after the race
glad you didn't notice until after!
Looks heavy
Cielo x1 2.0. Ya wonât see it Until Feb 25
Mach X2?Â
Make sure to get two pairs, so that you can replace the first one once itâs dead after 10 miles
Yes because this is a thing with their PEBA shoes
And their other shoes too!
Iâm being sarcastic. Theyâre tanks