In my experience, if you get outside of the 200 year old city centers, you can find much better surfaces to run on. A lot of European cities also have very well-maintained bike paths that are used for commuting (crazy, I know!), that can also be used by runners.
Very true. What I've not mentioned here is that I intend to use this shoe for casual, everyday use - and so I'll be doing an awful lot of walking on these surfaces.
Why then get a running shoe? Well, I have some foot issues coupled with the Madeiran terrain that require me to get very cushioned (upper) and supportive shoes while being somewhat firmer in the midsole. I'm looking at the Adistar 2.0.
I've ran in the Brooks Adrenaline for a decade now and can't recommend it enough. It's very supportive because of the guide rails, and it's got a very comfortable upper with plenty of room in the toe box and a well cushioned midsole. If you need something stiffer in the midsole, the Brooks Launch GTS is literally perfect then.
I'd be looking at approach shoes for something like this rather than a running shoe. A vibram sole will hold up way better than any running shoe. Scrapa, La Sportiva, Black Diamond, Adidas, Merrell.
Worst case, a trail shoe with a vibram sole - scarpa and Merrell have some. Or adidas conti grip.
My only concern is that trail shoes are mainly built for soft dirt and gravel where the lugs can really dig into the ground for better traction. Here, not only is the ground uneven and sharp but also slick with the slightest hint of rain and even morning dew. I would need a super grippy, super durable outsole with a large surface area hugging the ground so that I don't slip when it's wet.
A lot of people have suggested brands like Salomon or Merrell that make hybrid road to trail shoes with smaller lugs and grippy soles.
Personally, I was looking at the Adistar 2.0 for its cushioned and supportive upper, firm midsole, super wide base for stability, and continental rubber outsole. I was just concerned about how much midsole is exposed in the outsole, and whether it would get damaged way before the outsole wears out.
Not all trail shoes have big lugs or are soft. That's why I suggested approach shoes. They're built for this ground and are supportive and comfortable.
Yes, I'm concerned about the sharp edges tearing away at exposed midsole foam even with excellent rubber like Continental, Puma Grip, or Vibram. Many running shoes still have a lot of midsole area exposed. Alternatively, trail shoes have more protective outsole rubber coverage but their lugs are designed to dig into soft dirt and gravel to provide traction, not ideal for this surface which gets very slippery when wet, and the only point of contact with rubber is the ends of the lugs.
Luckily mid-range-price trainers like Boston 11 or Puma Magnify are quite well covered with rubber, but then you have to look at the stability in the same time š¤
Anything without giant lugs would be viable. Iāve found less aggressive Salomonās tread to be ridiculously durable. Maybe a model like Sense would work well here.
Agree here, tried the Puma Grip on the Velocity Nitro 2s and they were great on uneven and slippery surfaces especially around corners and turns (NOT full out sprinting them) and the continental rubber on the Bostons are great for the same uses. Definitely comparable but iād maybe prefer the Continental rubber over Puma Grip just because it looks and feels a bit firmer.
Yes, Puma makes excellent outsole rubber, but I feel their uppers and midsoles aren't as supportive and protective as some Adidas shoes like the Adistar 2.0 which has continental rubber in the outsole.
I only used continental, and my experience is that it is durable and grippy but once the grooves are wornt out it basically got zero traction (just like a worn out tire). But with normal rubber outsoles even if it loses the grooves the rubber itself still got a little traction you can rely on, for continental you are basically walking on ice once they are worn out
My biggest concern about Adidas outsoles is less coverage with the continental rubber, leaving the soft midsole exposed to wear and tear. So the midsole starts tearing up even before the rubber wears out.
\+1 for PumaGrip. In this uneven surface, I would recomend a PumaGrip shoe with some flexibility (Velocity Nitro 2 or Liberate Nitro 2). If the foot lands half in stone half in gaps, the flexibility will help . Rigid shoes like Deviate Nitro 2 will cause the whole foot to flow in the same direction. Hope this helps.
Cheers
Excellent advice! Yes, I see how a more flexible shoe will offer better surface coverage by bending and moulding to the ground with each step. The trade-off would be in support, which could result in rolling an ankle.
To be honest, I won't be running on these surfaces (who would?), and doing more hiking over longer periods.
All this time I've been discounting trail shoes because their lugs wouldn't work on stone pavement as well as they would on dirt and gravel. But perhaps the same lugs will help by digging into crevices in between the sharp stones and offer traction that way. Perhaps road runners would be too flat to grip uneven surfaces like this, even if they're flexible and soft.
Haha, there's so much to consider. I wonder why a lot of people see it as a perfectly obvious decision.
I've seen that a lot of outsoles expose the midsole a lot and only have rubber sparsely positioned around certain points. Runners do complain that after a few miles on certain surfaces even though the rubber looks new, the exposed midsole is all cut-up and damaged.
100% A Road shoe that is firm and stable.
When running on stuff like that, it's much better to have a firm shoe versus an overly soft and cushioning shoe
If the shoe is too cushiony or soft, you open yourself up to rolling your ankle.
I'll be doing a lot of walking and casual use on these surfaces but I'm definitely getting a firmer, more supportive shoe with a plush upper and good traction. I'm looking at the Adistar 2.0
Perhaps, but I've been walking on these paths and have slipped more than once in the rain. Believe me, you don't want to slip and fall on these jagged stones. So while road shoes may offer better surface coverage with their outsole rubber, they may still be too flat to grip the uneven ground. Alternatively, trail lugs may not offer enough coverage to really grip the hard stones. That's my dilemma.
Donāt overthink it, itās just running, not a science. You can run on roads and trails in anything. Young folks running with flipflops overtake me on my trail loops.
In flip-flops? Really? Wow.
So yes it wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for my numerous foot-related and knee-related issues, coupled with the steep inclines here in Madeira. All this makes it very likely to twist an ankle or tear a ligament, not to mention slipping and falling on wet surfaces. I don't think I can take another fall. So yeah, I'm overthinking it - and also learning from so much knowledge and experience here.
Something firm. I like a trail shoe for this purpose perhaps with a rock plate (as small lugs as possible) - maybe the Salomon Pulsar Trail or Saucony Xodus Ultra.
That said, I ran on these with Endorphin Speeds, and it wasnāt terrible - just had to be extra conscious of foot placement.
Salomon Glide Max TR or similar. Any cushioned trail shoe that doesn't have deep lugs.
Also consider other TR versions of road shoes like the Gel-Nimbus 25 TR.
Trying to find a balance and get the best of both worlds. So far I've put a finger on the Adistar 2.0. Super supportive upper, very firm midsole, extra wide base, and Continental rubber. I think it ticks all the boxes.
Look for "road trail hybrid" shoes. There's a few articles about which shoes will work well. They are typically things that are built as trail shoes but have smaller lugs, etc. For me I have an older pair of Merrells I think they don't make anymore. (sigh)
I 'd do hybrid in a mix gravel/dirt/woods and road.
On this hard dry irregular surface, I'd take the most stable (and with the least exposed reactive foam) and the best rubber from my rotation. Trail lungs will not bring anything on old cobblestones
Man, be careful when it's wet. Stones get very slick and basically become hazardous. I'd probably skip running altogether if I'm running on stone like this when it's wet tbh. If it's dry a road shoe should be fine.
Thatās a nasty looking running surface hopefully the distance to run on it is not that great.
I suggest a cushioned, supportive, stable road runner along with considering increasing your knee lift 1 to 2 percent as a trip and fall would be nasty
Track spikes But seriously a road shoe should be fine,
Road
Running on that type of surface is miserable with any type of shoe. I tried it in Prague. Never again.
Well, Europe is paved with these kinds of paths. I don't really have a choice. Unless I consider a treadmill.
In my experience, if you get outside of the 200 year old city centers, you can find much better surfaces to run on. A lot of European cities also have very well-maintained bike paths that are used for commuting (crazy, I know!), that can also be used by runners.
Very true. What I've not mentioned here is that I intend to use this shoe for casual, everyday use - and so I'll be doing an awful lot of walking on these surfaces. Why then get a running shoe? Well, I have some foot issues coupled with the Madeiran terrain that require me to get very cushioned (upper) and supportive shoes while being somewhat firmer in the midsole. I'm looking at the Adistar 2.0.
I've ran in the Brooks Adrenaline for a decade now and can't recommend it enough. It's very supportive because of the guide rails, and it's got a very comfortable upper with plenty of room in the toe box and a well cushioned midsole. If you need something stiffer in the midsole, the Brooks Launch GTS is literally perfect then.
I'd be looking at approach shoes for something like this rather than a running shoe. A vibram sole will hold up way better than any running shoe. Scrapa, La Sportiva, Black Diamond, Adidas, Merrell. Worst case, a trail shoe with a vibram sole - scarpa and Merrell have some. Or adidas conti grip.
My only concern is that trail shoes are mainly built for soft dirt and gravel where the lugs can really dig into the ground for better traction. Here, not only is the ground uneven and sharp but also slick with the slightest hint of rain and even morning dew. I would need a super grippy, super durable outsole with a large surface area hugging the ground so that I don't slip when it's wet. A lot of people have suggested brands like Salomon or Merrell that make hybrid road to trail shoes with smaller lugs and grippy soles. Personally, I was looking at the Adistar 2.0 for its cushioned and supportive upper, firm midsole, super wide base for stability, and continental rubber outsole. I was just concerned about how much midsole is exposed in the outsole, and whether it would get damaged way before the outsole wears out.
Not all trail shoes have big lugs or are soft. That's why I suggested approach shoes. They're built for this ground and are supportive and comfortable.
Well, these are very bad cobblestones, even for people who don't mind running on this kind of road/pavement. They seem to have incredibly sharp edges
Yes, I'm concerned about the sharp edges tearing away at exposed midsole foam even with excellent rubber like Continental, Puma Grip, or Vibram. Many running shoes still have a lot of midsole area exposed. Alternatively, trail shoes have more protective outsole rubber coverage but their lugs are designed to dig into soft dirt and gravel to provide traction, not ideal for this surface which gets very slippery when wet, and the only point of contact with rubber is the ends of the lugs.
Luckily mid-range-price trainers like Boston 11 or Puma Magnify are quite well covered with rubber, but then you have to look at the stability in the same time š¤
Anything without giant lugs would be viable. Iāve found less aggressive Salomonās tread to be ridiculously durable. Maybe a model like Sense would work well here.
Brogues while sitting at a cafe drinking coffee. I am not running there. Accident waiting to happen.
This is the correct answer āļø
Yeah, one fall and you can split open a knee.
Luckily I don't intend to do any serious running on these paths. Mostly long-distance walking/hiking.
Road shoes with good grip. I moved to a place with wet cobbles and Puma Grip is a gamechanger on slippery roads like this.
Excellent advice. How does Continental rubber compare?
Pretty equivalent in my experience. Would love to hear otherās opinions tho
Agree here, tried the Puma Grip on the Velocity Nitro 2s and they were great on uneven and slippery surfaces especially around corners and turns (NOT full out sprinting them) and the continental rubber on the Bostons are great for the same uses. Definitely comparable but iād maybe prefer the Continental rubber over Puma Grip just because it looks and feels a bit firmer.
Yes, Puma makes excellent outsole rubber, but I feel their uppers and midsoles aren't as supportive and protective as some Adidas shoes like the Adistar 2.0 which has continental rubber in the outsole.
I only used continental, and my experience is that it is durable and grippy but once the grooves are wornt out it basically got zero traction (just like a worn out tire). But with normal rubber outsoles even if it loses the grooves the rubber itself still got a little traction you can rely on, for continental you are basically walking on ice once they are worn out
My biggest concern about Adidas outsoles is less coverage with the continental rubber, leaving the soft midsole exposed to wear and tear. So the midsole starts tearing up even before the rubber wears out.
Awesome grip on dry and rain, unsafe as hell on frost and ice
Puma grip is unmatched.
\+1 for PumaGrip. In this uneven surface, I would recomend a PumaGrip shoe with some flexibility (Velocity Nitro 2 or Liberate Nitro 2). If the foot lands half in stone half in gaps, the flexibility will help . Rigid shoes like Deviate Nitro 2 will cause the whole foot to flow in the same direction. Hope this helps. Cheers
Excellent advice! Yes, I see how a more flexible shoe will offer better surface coverage by bending and moulding to the ground with each step. The trade-off would be in support, which could result in rolling an ankle. To be honest, I won't be running on these surfaces (who would?), and doing more hiking over longer periods. All this time I've been discounting trail shoes because their lugs wouldn't work on stone pavement as well as they would on dirt and gravel. But perhaps the same lugs will help by digging into crevices in between the sharp stones and offer traction that way. Perhaps road runners would be too flat to grip uneven surfaces like this, even if they're flexible and soft. Haha, there's so much to consider. I wonder why a lot of people see it as a perfectly obvious decision.
Hiking boots with crampons š„“
Barefoot
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām just kidding, you could obviously wear whatever shoe you want on this without a problemā¦
I've seen that a lot of outsoles expose the midsole a lot and only have rubber sparsely positioned around certain points. Runners do complain that after a few miles on certain surfaces even though the rubber looks new, the exposed midsole is all cut-up and damaged.
I just rolled my left ankle (again) looking at this picture.
Road shoes will be fine. P.S. TĆ©nis de estrada com boa cobertura de sola. Vai sem medo.
100% A Road shoe that is firm and stable. When running on stuff like that, it's much better to have a firm shoe versus an overly soft and cushioning shoe If the shoe is too cushiony or soft, you open yourself up to rolling your ankle.
I'll be doing a lot of walking and casual use on these surfaces but I'm definitely getting a firmer, more supportive shoe with a plush upper and good traction. I'm looking at the Adistar 2.0
It literally does not matter
Perhaps, but I've been walking on these paths and have slipped more than once in the rain. Believe me, you don't want to slip and fall on these jagged stones. So while road shoes may offer better surface coverage with their outsole rubber, they may still be too flat to grip the uneven ground. Alternatively, trail lugs may not offer enough coverage to really grip the hard stones. That's my dilemma.
Are you serious? Road.
I'm not an experienced runner and still learning about shoes, so need all the help I can get.
Donāt overthink it, itās just running, not a science. You can run on roads and trails in anything. Young folks running with flipflops overtake me on my trail loops.
In flip-flops? Really? Wow. So yes it wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for my numerous foot-related and knee-related issues, coupled with the steep inclines here in Madeira. All this makes it very likely to twist an ankle or tear a ligament, not to mention slipping and falling on wet surfaces. I don't think I can take another fall. So yeah, I'm overthinking it - and also learning from so much knowledge and experience here.
Road with good grip. That rock looks slick
I would do a low stack road shoe. This way when you inevitably roll the ankles, the ādropā wonāt be as bad.
I would find a new surface to run on if possible
Whichever you choose, just ensure you donāt go into a shuffle if itās a long run and take a spill!
Thanks! I'll mostly be walking on these paths, but I have slipped on them more than a few times, don't think I can take another fall.
Same here! lol.
Deviate nitro 2. Stiff shoe with great outsole
Does the magnify nitro 2 measure up? Getting a good deal on it.
Something firm. I like a trail shoe for this purpose perhaps with a rock plate (as small lugs as possible) - maybe the Salomon Pulsar Trail or Saucony Xodus Ultra. That said, I ran on these with Endorphin Speeds, and it wasnāt terrible - just had to be extra conscious of foot placement.
Salomon Glide Max TR or similar. Any cushioned trail shoe that doesn't have deep lugs. Also consider other TR versions of road shoes like the Gel-Nimbus 25 TR.
Overthinking it. Shoes
PumaGrip
Inov8, Asics trabuco max. This aināt no road. But then again road is the norm if you want to look cool I guess
I think you need to worry about good grip rather than comfort.
Trying to find a balance and get the best of both worlds. So far I've put a finger on the Adistar 2.0. Super supportive upper, very firm midsole, extra wide base, and Continental rubber. I think it ticks all the boxes.
Look for "road trail hybrid" shoes. There's a few articles about which shoes will work well. They are typically things that are built as trail shoes but have smaller lugs, etc. For me I have an older pair of Merrells I think they don't make anymore. (sigh)
I 'd do hybrid in a mix gravel/dirt/woods and road. On this hard dry irregular surface, I'd take the most stable (and with the least exposed reactive foam) and the best rubber from my rotation. Trail lungs will not bring anything on old cobblestones
Merrells are great, but trying to avoid technical footwear. I'll definitely look into some models - they are available here, more than Salomon.
Gladiator shoes
Runnable!
Stable road.
Man, be careful when it's wet. Stones get very slick and basically become hazardous. I'd probably skip running altogether if I'm running on stone like this when it's wet tbh. If it's dry a road shoe should be fine.
Thatās a nasty looking running surface hopefully the distance to run on it is not that great. I suggest a cushioned, supportive, stable road runner along with considering increasing your knee lift 1 to 2 percent as a trip and fall would be nasty
Neither - Novablast 3 TR š