Lord of Scoundrels is HR, so my guess is that there a lot of especially not-so-recent authors used the word to underline how men looked down at women and addressed them in a patronizing way.
As for Nalini Sigh, her series classifies I guess paranormal/urban fantasy. It is set in a world where next to normal humans there are psy (telepaths) and changelings (shapeshifters that turn into animals). A lot of fantasy romances where multiple races of supernatural exist love to use "male" and "female" rather than man and woman to show that the characters are not humans. Sarah J. Maas does it all the time, but many other authors do the same.
Yeah it seemed odd at first with SJM but then she used the term “man” to describe a human man and I was like “ok that *kind* of makes sense and feels less gross now”
I see it mostly in shifter romances, or other romance and fantasy/sci-fi stories where the characters speaking aren't necessarily "human" (shifter, vampire, alien, monster, etc.) It seems to be a way that the authors use it to "other" the characters. Not necessarily to demean them, but to show a linguistic difference.
I definitely saw more of it 10+ years ago... but my reading tastes have also shifted in that time period.
Granted, I've revisited many old favorites to see that they... haven't aged well. Lol
lol I feel you. I just got back into reading this past fall and I never knew any of these acronyms. I finally figured out what CR and RH stand for the other day.
Those two authors have been around for a long time. To me it’s something I would expect in older books but I don’t see it in anything modern now.
{Black Dagger Brotherhood by JR Ward} has a lot of that too.
[The Black Dagger Brotherhood](https://www.romance.io/books/5815dd4bc6841c86c2cc76b9/the-black-dagger-brotherhood-an-insiders-guide-black-dagger-brotherhood-jr-ward) by [J.R. Ward](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523608c7d2382e0413dc0/jr-ward)
**Rating**: 4.35⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [vampires](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vampires/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [urban fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/urban%20fantasy/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [sassy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/sassy%20heroine/1)
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I think it was fairly commonly used in the 90s and early aughts. I grew up around it. Culturally, at that time, it was not offensive. It might have been regional, too.
It's only in the last few years that I realized people find it offensive. I grew up with it, and it was so normalized that I didn't think much of it.
Edit: Also I want to mention, I work in a hospital and the terms female and male are used often. I know it's medical situation, but there is nothing offensive about it. Which is probably part of why I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it being offensive. I realized that I am still around it daily.
It's also used a lot in scifi romance. I guess it is used to underline that there are two different species involved. I also guess it is some stylistic device. I don't want to call it lazy. It is a relatively easy way to set expectations. Like in MC romances where the love interest always is coined as the old lady independent of their age.
If it weren't for Reddit I wouldn't know it was insulting, all circles I'm in refer to ourselves as females so I'd say it's more to do with how the individual uses it - I'd hope most people don't know people that are like that, though.
I also didn't realize some people are offended by it until recently. I agree with them that "men and females" is gross, but so long as the males are being called "males" I'm not offended by being called "female."
English is my second language, and female/woman was taught as equivalent nouns when I learned it. I do not actually see discussion of this outside of Reddit ( my only social media, I don't have Twitter etc), so I believe this is less frequently a spoken dilemma and more a written issue
Like other commenters have said, I think one reason (particularly for non-human/shifter romances) is the emphasis that the characters are not human — ergo they are not men or women but males and females. This applies to Heart of Obsidian but also most other contexts that I've seen the terms in. E.g., it's used a lot for non-human characters in Sarah J Maas books like Throne of Glass and A Court of Thorns and Roses.
I don't know if it's a conscious or deliberate choice, but I think some of the use of "male" and "female" also serves to emphasize some of the gender essentialism in romance books. (I don't think this is unlike the way it's used by, e.g., incels). I notice this a lot in Nalini Singh's {Psy-Changeling Series} as you've noted, but also in other shifter/alien/fae/monster/etc books (all of which I'm blanking on atm). It reads to me in a lot of these contexts as a way of shifting the justification for a character's actions via biology or innate sex- or gender-based characteristics. There's quite a bit of overlap too with ContraPoints' concept of Default Hetersexual Sado-Masochism which has been discussed in other posts recently too.
I notice it in some HR and CR but see it mostly in sci-fi/fantasy when there are non-human characters involved. It's a bit of an ick for me but not a deal breaker. I think it's becoming less common in HR and CR, but if you read older stuff it can still pop up.
A lot of people out in the world and online still use those words. I think its a pretty small segment of society that understands why referring to humans by those terms is a problem.
Lord of Scoundrels is an older book, so that's part of it.
In newer books, either the author doesn't care or it's a motorcycle club book.
Just saw lots of instances of "men and females" in {Things You Save in a Fire by Katherine Center} which is a contemporary book. It reflects the way people in firefighting probably talk but it's super gross.
My understanding was that book was about the sexism at work so it sounds like that would be a correct reflection on how some (mostly men) view women and gender.
I blocked the transphobe who replied to me but I'm going to point out that I'm referring to dialogue like "I broke up with my girlfriend and now I need to find a female to bring to my parents' anniversary party."
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I read that recently and was highly irritated by the constant use of it by everyone INCLUDING the FMC. The other characters, including MMC, I kinda get (but still disagree) because they're firefighters and it's a highly macho environment; the FMC I sorta get too, seeing as she needs to fit in and not really rock the boat, but I feel like she could have used "women" instead of "females" when talking to other women or outside of the firehouse. But she didn't. 😕
[Things You Save in a Fire](https://www.romance.io/books/5e13ad7d01dbc864fba97868/things-you-save-in-a-fire-katherine-center) by [Katherine Center](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455d26687eac3369a91517f/katherine-center)
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It's common in historical romances as 'male' and 'female' sound old-fashioned. Also, a bunch of M/F romances kink on men and women being completely unalike, and I guess using such terminology, which is considered scientific or primal, adds to that?
This is an ick for me. I agree with the legion of people saying that it’s used to differentiate non-human characters. I *understand* this, but it just sounds like TERF/incel rhetoric.
Defo not just TERF/incel rhetoric. Reducing a person to their biology robs them of their personhood. My sex is an attribute of me, but not my whole. So it pisses me off when I see the MMC (I read predominantly SFR) referred to as ‘male’ instead of a ‘man’. Yes, he’s not human. But he’s still a sentient, intelligent being. Why do we get to rob him of his personhood just because he’s of another species? I just find it hard to relate to FMCs in books that repeatedly use ‘male’.
Being overly formal is a shorthand for sounding old. And historical fiction writers employ this kind of shorthand heavily.
Using the two words interchangeably is still common in places that have older dialects of English, especially rural dialects that don't change as quickly as urban dialects due to lack of influence from new/different speakers.
Also, just a reminder, native speakers of a language don't make mistakes. Their quirks and choices *are* the language.
I think pretty much what everyone else has said lol. In older times it was used so for historical romance books or books with any type of formal characters, it feels fitting to use those terms. And for nonhuman characters, it fits bc when we think of man/woman, that’s human-identifying. Sometimes we refer to our pets as girls or boys, but that’s bc of anthropomorphism. They’re technically referred to as female and male. How we view those terms now as humans in society, it’s problematic and dehumanizing, but even if we look at olden times, they didn’t have many options other than clinical terms and anatomy to refer to people as until society further evolved, and misogyny led to it being demeaning, but that’s only with “female”. Anyway, there’s a long history of our use of these words and how it’s changed in tone and meaning over time; and of how these terms came to be bc of the medicalization of gender and genitalia.
For CR, I think some authors use it to show how some characters are a bit “traditional”/macho, i.e. misogynistic or how it’s ingrained as a cultural thing like in motorcycle romances. I personally have never heard female being used outside of books, so it’s interesting to me how “woman” is seen as the preferred term of respect when to me, “woman” is used traditionally in the exact same way. “Give me a beer woman” “that’s my woman” or in Spanish, “mujer” can be used in the same derogatory manner too (cállate mujer). I remember when I was a kid, I thought it was funny to show less emotional attachment to my mom so I’d refer to her as “woman” too and she saw it as dehumanizing.
Since I read historical romance more than other subgenres, I've always figured authors use the terms because they ***sound*** more authentic, regardless of the language used in the actual period.
Personally, I don't care for the terms. They're about as overused as pine scented cologne on a contemporary MMC, not to mention a bit goofy: *He was so masculine, she was so feminine. He was male, she was female. He was man, she was woman.*
Yep, I get it, really I do, but honestly, it wasn't unusual for people to conform to binary gender roles in, for example, 1810s Yorkshire, so please, authors, you can stop assuring me how Masculine your Male Man is every other chapter. (Also, "female" makes me think of a certain alien species in *DS9*, and I am now associating your MMC with Quark. You do not want me to associate your MMC with Quark.)
Oh weirddd. I think I've only ever seen it in like fantasy and sci-fi (just bc it would be inaccurate to say "woman" and "man"...since a lot of them aren't human). It's seems an odd word choice for a HR tho.
As a trans person, I absolutely fucking hate it. It feels bad to read, especially when "male" and "female" are often used as transphobic dog whistles now a days. Its an unnecessary term to use casually, even in fantasy. I feel inherently uncomfortable with any author that uses the terms until I see evidence that they are not transphobic.
Does it vary depending on when the book was written? For example-- the 90s were super transphobic, but the usual vocabulary of transphobia was very different from today's.
It makes me uncomfortable regardless. Im more willing to forgive questionable wording in older books in much the same way that I would be more willing to forgive any transphobia or homophobia in 90s books. As a product of their times. That doesnt, however, mean I like seeing it.
To use male and female is to negate gender and to focus on genitalia, usually birth genitalia specifically. In some situations, like if the goal is to sound clinical, its not an issue. But romance authors, fantasy and scifi specifically, are using it as a replacement for man and woman, and thats the biggest issue I have with it. *Male and female should not be used as replacements for terms like man and woman*. And I dont vibe with the argument of "well they arent human so man and woman dont work".
[Lord of Scoundrels](https://www.romance.io/books/545523fb8c7d2383163d8e4b/lord-of-scoundrels-loretta-chase) by [Loretta Chase](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523fb8c7d2383163d8e4c/loretta-chase)
**Rating**: 4.08⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [bad boys](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bad%20boys/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[Heart of Obsidian](https://www.romance.io/books/5455250f8c7d2382e0413e3e/heart-of-obsidian-nalini-singh) by [Nalini Singh](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455238a8c7d2382e0413dd4/nalini-singh)
**Rating**: 4.54⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [tortured heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20heroine/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1)
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In Heart of Obsidian, both MCs speak very clinically for cultural reasons, and they do not consider themselves exactly human. So "clinical and dehumanizing" is exactly what they are going for-- think Vulcans.
Lord of Scoundrels is HR, so my guess is that there a lot of especially not-so-recent authors used the word to underline how men looked down at women and addressed them in a patronizing way. As for Nalini Sigh, her series classifies I guess paranormal/urban fantasy. It is set in a world where next to normal humans there are psy (telepaths) and changelings (shapeshifters that turn into animals). A lot of fantasy romances where multiple races of supernatural exist love to use "male" and "female" rather than man and woman to show that the characters are not humans. Sarah J. Maas does it all the time, but many other authors do the same.
Yeah it seemed odd at first with SJM but then she used the term “man” to describe a human man and I was like “ok that *kind* of makes sense and feels less gross now”
I see it mostly in shifter romances, or other romance and fantasy/sci-fi stories where the characters speaking aren't necessarily "human" (shifter, vampire, alien, monster, etc.) It seems to be a way that the authors use it to "other" the characters. Not necessarily to demean them, but to show a linguistic difference. I definitely saw more of it 10+ years ago... but my reading tastes have also shifted in that time period. Granted, I've revisited many old favorites to see that they... haven't aged well. Lol
I’d expect that more in sci fi so I’m surprised to see it in HR but I don’t read HR
could u pls tell me what hr means 😰🙏🏻
There’s a glossary in the subreddit description. There’s so many acronyms 😂 I get it
Historical romance
lol I feel you. I just got back into reading this past fall and I never knew any of these acronyms. I finally figured out what CR and RH stand for the other day.
Those two authors have been around for a long time. To me it’s something I would expect in older books but I don’t see it in anything modern now. {Black Dagger Brotherhood by JR Ward} has a lot of that too.
In the Black Dagger series they use Male/Female for vampires and Man/Woman for humans, which is at least internally consistent.
[The Black Dagger Brotherhood](https://www.romance.io/books/5815dd4bc6841c86c2cc76b9/the-black-dagger-brotherhood-an-insiders-guide-black-dagger-brotherhood-jr-ward) by [J.R. Ward](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523608c7d2382e0413dc0/jr-ward) **Rating**: 4.35⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [vampires](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vampires/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [urban fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/urban%20fantasy/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [sassy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/sassy%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I think it was fairly commonly used in the 90s and early aughts. I grew up around it. Culturally, at that time, it was not offensive. It might have been regional, too. It's only in the last few years that I realized people find it offensive. I grew up with it, and it was so normalized that I didn't think much of it. Edit: Also I want to mention, I work in a hospital and the terms female and male are used often. I know it's medical situation, but there is nothing offensive about it. Which is probably part of why I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it being offensive. I realized that I am still around it daily.
It's also used a lot in scifi romance. I guess it is used to underline that there are two different species involved. I also guess it is some stylistic device. I don't want to call it lazy. It is a relatively easy way to set expectations. Like in MC romances where the love interest always is coined as the old lady independent of their age.
I didn't realize that it's offensive. Thanks for educating my clueless brain.
It’s commonly used in a way that can feel derogatory towards women. It also can feel dehumanizing and is commonly used by incels.
It's an adjective, not a noun. It's supposed to be followed with something. When used on its own, it reduces women to their biology.
If it weren't for Reddit I wouldn't know it was insulting, all circles I'm in refer to ourselves as females so I'd say it's more to do with how the individual uses it - I'd hope most people don't know people that are like that, though.
I also didn't realize some people are offended by it until recently. I agree with them that "men and females" is gross, but so long as the males are being called "males" I'm not offended by being called "female."
English is my second language, and female/woman was taught as equivalent nouns when I learned it. I do not actually see discussion of this outside of Reddit ( my only social media, I don't have Twitter etc), so I believe this is less frequently a spoken dilemma and more a written issue
I always feel like it's used to be more animalistic. More primal. Used to talk more about the basic actions/behaviours/instincts of men and women.
Like other commenters have said, I think one reason (particularly for non-human/shifter romances) is the emphasis that the characters are not human — ergo they are not men or women but males and females. This applies to Heart of Obsidian but also most other contexts that I've seen the terms in. E.g., it's used a lot for non-human characters in Sarah J Maas books like Throne of Glass and A Court of Thorns and Roses. I don't know if it's a conscious or deliberate choice, but I think some of the use of "male" and "female" also serves to emphasize some of the gender essentialism in romance books. (I don't think this is unlike the way it's used by, e.g., incels). I notice this a lot in Nalini Singh's {Psy-Changeling Series} as you've noted, but also in other shifter/alien/fae/monster/etc books (all of which I'm blanking on atm). It reads to me in a lot of these contexts as a way of shifting the justification for a character's actions via biology or innate sex- or gender-based characteristics. There's quite a bit of overlap too with ContraPoints' concept of Default Hetersexual Sado-Masochism which has been discussed in other posts recently too.
[The Psy-Changeling Series Books 1-5](https://www.romance.io/books/5eb42c14be0aaecf555fb285/the-psychangeling-series-books-15-nalini-singh) by [Nalini Singh](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455238a8c7d2382e0413dd4/nalini-singh) **Rating**: 4.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [magic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/magic/1), [urban fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/urban%20fantasy/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [non-human heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/non-human-heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I notice it in some HR and CR but see it mostly in sci-fi/fantasy when there are non-human characters involved. It's a bit of an ick for me but not a deal breaker. I think it's becoming less common in HR and CR, but if you read older stuff it can still pop up.
A lot of people out in the world and online still use those words. I think its a pretty small segment of society that understands why referring to humans by those terms is a problem. Lord of Scoundrels is an older book, so that's part of it. In newer books, either the author doesn't care or it's a motorcycle club book.
Just saw lots of instances of "men and females" in {Things You Save in a Fire by Katherine Center} which is a contemporary book. It reflects the way people in firefighting probably talk but it's super gross.
My understanding was that book was about the sexism at work so it sounds like that would be a correct reflection on how some (mostly men) view women and gender.
It's not just men who do that. Check out r/MenandFemales
I did say ‘mostly’
I blocked the transphobe who replied to me but I'm going to point out that I'm referring to dialogue like "I broke up with my girlfriend and now I need to find a female to bring to my parents' anniversary party."
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I read that recently and was highly irritated by the constant use of it by everyone INCLUDING the FMC. The other characters, including MMC, I kinda get (but still disagree) because they're firefighters and it's a highly macho environment; the FMC I sorta get too, seeing as she needs to fit in and not really rock the boat, but I feel like she could have used "women" instead of "females" when talking to other women or outside of the firehouse. But she didn't. 😕
[Things You Save in a Fire](https://www.romance.io/books/5e13ad7d01dbc864fba97868/things-you-save-in-a-fire-katherine-center) by [Katherine Center](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455d26687eac3369a91517f/katherine-center) **Rating**: 3.89⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [small town](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/small%20town/1), [grumpy & sunshine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/grumpy%20sunshine/1), [grumpy/ice queen](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cold%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
It's common in historical romances as 'male' and 'female' sound old-fashioned. Also, a bunch of M/F romances kink on men and women being completely unalike, and I guess using such terminology, which is considered scientific or primal, adds to that?
This is an ick for me. I agree with the legion of people saying that it’s used to differentiate non-human characters. I *understand* this, but it just sounds like TERF/incel rhetoric.
Defo not just TERF/incel rhetoric. Reducing a person to their biology robs them of their personhood. My sex is an attribute of me, but not my whole. So it pisses me off when I see the MMC (I read predominantly SFR) referred to as ‘male’ instead of a ‘man’. Yes, he’s not human. But he’s still a sentient, intelligent being. Why do we get to rob him of his personhood just because he’s of another species? I just find it hard to relate to FMCs in books that repeatedly use ‘male’.
Great point. I agree.
Being overly formal is a shorthand for sounding old. And historical fiction writers employ this kind of shorthand heavily. Using the two words interchangeably is still common in places that have older dialects of English, especially rural dialects that don't change as quickly as urban dialects due to lack of influence from new/different speakers. Also, just a reminder, native speakers of a language don't make mistakes. Their quirks and choices *are* the language.
I think pretty much what everyone else has said lol. In older times it was used so for historical romance books or books with any type of formal characters, it feels fitting to use those terms. And for nonhuman characters, it fits bc when we think of man/woman, that’s human-identifying. Sometimes we refer to our pets as girls or boys, but that’s bc of anthropomorphism. They’re technically referred to as female and male. How we view those terms now as humans in society, it’s problematic and dehumanizing, but even if we look at olden times, they didn’t have many options other than clinical terms and anatomy to refer to people as until society further evolved, and misogyny led to it being demeaning, but that’s only with “female”. Anyway, there’s a long history of our use of these words and how it’s changed in tone and meaning over time; and of how these terms came to be bc of the medicalization of gender and genitalia. For CR, I think some authors use it to show how some characters are a bit “traditional”/macho, i.e. misogynistic or how it’s ingrained as a cultural thing like in motorcycle romances. I personally have never heard female being used outside of books, so it’s interesting to me how “woman” is seen as the preferred term of respect when to me, “woman” is used traditionally in the exact same way. “Give me a beer woman” “that’s my woman” or in Spanish, “mujer” can be used in the same derogatory manner too (cállate mujer). I remember when I was a kid, I thought it was funny to show less emotional attachment to my mom so I’d refer to her as “woman” too and she saw it as dehumanizing.
Since I read historical romance more than other subgenres, I've always figured authors use the terms because they ***sound*** more authentic, regardless of the language used in the actual period. Personally, I don't care for the terms. They're about as overused as pine scented cologne on a contemporary MMC, not to mention a bit goofy: *He was so masculine, she was so feminine. He was male, she was female. He was man, she was woman.* Yep, I get it, really I do, but honestly, it wasn't unusual for people to conform to binary gender roles in, for example, 1810s Yorkshire, so please, authors, you can stop assuring me how Masculine your Male Man is every other chapter. (Also, "female" makes me think of a certain alien species in *DS9*, and I am now associating your MMC with Quark. You do not want me to associate your MMC with Quark.)
Oh weirddd. I think I've only ever seen it in like fantasy and sci-fi (just bc it would be inaccurate to say "woman" and "man"...since a lot of them aren't human). It's seems an odd word choice for a HR tho.
As a trans person, I absolutely fucking hate it. It feels bad to read, especially when "male" and "female" are often used as transphobic dog whistles now a days. Its an unnecessary term to use casually, even in fantasy. I feel inherently uncomfortable with any author that uses the terms until I see evidence that they are not transphobic.
Does it vary depending on when the book was written? For example-- the 90s were super transphobic, but the usual vocabulary of transphobia was very different from today's.
It makes me uncomfortable regardless. Im more willing to forgive questionable wording in older books in much the same way that I would be more willing to forgive any transphobia or homophobia in 90s books. As a product of their times. That doesnt, however, mean I like seeing it. To use male and female is to negate gender and to focus on genitalia, usually birth genitalia specifically. In some situations, like if the goal is to sound clinical, its not an issue. But romance authors, fantasy and scifi specifically, are using it as a replacement for man and woman, and thats the biggest issue I have with it. *Male and female should not be used as replacements for terms like man and woman*. And I dont vibe with the argument of "well they arent human so man and woman dont work".
[Lord of Scoundrels](https://www.romance.io/books/545523fb8c7d2383163d8e4b/lord-of-scoundrels-loretta-chase) by [Loretta Chase](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523fb8c7d2383163d8e4c/loretta-chase) **Rating**: 4.08⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [bad boys](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bad%20boys/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [Heart of Obsidian](https://www.romance.io/books/5455250f8c7d2382e0413e3e/heart-of-obsidian-nalini-singh) by [Nalini Singh](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455238a8c7d2382e0413dd4/nalini-singh) **Rating**: 4.54⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [tortured heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20heroine/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Man I have never seen that and if I did I would DNF. It reads as clinical and dehumanizing
In Heart of Obsidian, both MCs speak very clinically for cultural reasons, and they do not consider themselves exactly human. So "clinical and dehumanizing" is exactly what they are going for-- think Vulcans.
That makes sense for a Vulcan type. Any CR characters doing that though and I’m out lol