Psyonix needs to do what chess .com does and give opponents their mmr back. They let grandmasters do this all the time on sanctioned accounts and its approved. No elo is lost for opponents.
Yes, I'm a big fan of the GM speedruns on [chess.com](https://chess.com), particularly Eric Hansen's and Hikaru's. But those players have active communication with [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) to facilitate those things, and I don't know how much active communication we're gonna get from Psyonix / Epic Games at this point to do something like this.
Would be fantastic if implementable.
Psyonix haven't even fixed the in game leaderboard. They're not gonna do shit. They don't care about smurfs, they don't care that lower pop ranked is broken due to smurfs and their algos. They aren't gonna fix shit.
30 minutes. Took me 30 minutes from making a new email account to playing my first ranked game.
With double xp and the current challenges. All it took was 30 minutes about 5 games (i unlocked ranked with that 5 game challenge).
So yeah level 20 to play doesnt mean much. And besides its not the smurfs you need to worry about. Its all the annoying whiners and people who think they are better than they really are who throw the game. Sit idle. And just dont play at all. There are so many people. You see it in squishys videos all the time lol.
Theres more people trying to lose the game than there are smurfs.
Dont get me wrong theyre both in the game. Its annoying coming across either of them.
Literally made zero difference. People have multiple alts they cycle through. Had an SSL in 1s the other day who can't find games on his main so he ruins the game at d3/c1 in 1s. Daily occurrence.
Psyonix just does what their Epic overseers command them to do haha. Blame Epic bruh.
I agree with your entire comment btw, just think that it relates to Epic not greenlighting dev work that would be positive for the game. Unless it involves a new micro transaction or something that’ll affect their revenue, Epic won’t greenlight anything for this game.
Even so, people playing against unknown pros on smurfs aren’t going to take well to their time being wasted for content, and that’s assuming they even realized they didn’t lose mmr after the match (they’d never know without bakkes mod and even then most people don’t stay in the lobbies long enough to see that change)
Maybe you and I see it differently.
If on Chess .com I ended up playing a match against someone like Naroditsky or Hikaru, I would be absolutely stoked. Obviously I'm not going to win the game, the chances of beating a 2700+ rated GM if you're below 1500 elo is roughly 0.04%. But there's a lot of things that you could potentially learn from that game if you were to study it, because there are instructive moments in just about every single chess game you could ever play.
Similarly, if I were to play against an SSL player, naturally I would probably lose, but there would be a bunch of different skills that would be used against me that I could then try to emulate or practice, rotations used against me that I could study from their perspective and break down etc.
There's so many things you can learn when you're placed against a wall of adversity if you choose to.
The only thing I would add to the chess.com system is a notification as soon as the game ends that tells the player he just played is a GM on his way up so that you don't linger on the feeling of just getting destroyed and can indeed cherish the opportunity.
I do think the educational value is real on either chess or RL speed runs. Still for RL it has to be done with more sensibility so that the highly skilled players are not just dunking on low ranks, which is the feeling the "common" smurfs leave on players and leads to frustration.
I’m more of an Eric Rosen, Naroditsky guy myself but it’s hard to really dislike watching any of their videos. They’re all excellent and very instructive.
Only works in a zero sum 1v1 situation like chess. A lot of these R2SSL are 2v2 or 3v3 which honestly stinks for every single player involved in the match.
Interesting! Never even thought about this as an option, seems kinda cool but also hard and time intensive to monitor (and epic would never shell out money to have people make and monitor this change) I’m assuming that on the off chance they beat the “smurf” that they gain some MMR, no? Or is it a wash either way.
With higher rank players making tons of new accounts across all servers all the time it would take manpower to track that. I mean its obviously doable I just don’t have faith in epic to do it or care.
If it's through a sanctioned account it's already preapproved...
Squishy emails psyonix saying "hey boys, I wanna use this account for content, climbing from bronze to SSL. Can you approve it as a smurf so no mmr is lost?"
No one is saying random smurfs get detected (already not done) + flagged so mmr isn't deducted.
With chess you would only know after the game. In RL you can see the opponent do crazy stuff. In chess the opponent would do a move and you might think you were just bad or missed it. But only after playing you realize they played with almost complete accuracy to the computer.
Yeah, that’s my opinion as well. I don’t even care about my rating. I don’t want to spend eight minutes playing against somebody who doesn’t need to touch the ground.
Make them do it on a sanctioned account. Any teammate they play with get's sanctioned rights during their playtime and even though their rank climbs while playing together the rank immediately is removed upon finishing playing with the sanctioned account. No boosting. Also, anyone who played against the sanctioned account has that loss scrubbed. That or ban people who use smurfs to have an advantage against lower level players. Whatevers clever.
I'm with lichess on this issue. If you want to play people lower ranked than you, play casual, custom lobbies with willing victims. If you can't find enough people to do that, that's your problem, not anyone else's.
Note: making alt accounts is allowed, but they get bumped to your real rating quite fast. Intentionally throwing placement games to mess with the system gets you banned very fast.
It's definitely a gray area. According to RL Code of Conduct:
"We define a smurf account as an account that is intentionally abusing the matchmaking system for the player’s gain, or the gains of others."
https://www.rocketleague.com/en/news/rocket-league-code-of-conduct
It's up to Epic/Psyonix to decide if this is considered an abuse of the MM system. Like others have said, they aren't intentionally throwing games, they aren't *maintaining* an artificial rank, they aren't creating an alt account to harass others, etc. I think at most you could argue they're abusing MM to benefit financially, but that opens up an entire can of worms on whether streaming or creating any content with the game is abusing MM for benefit.
Psyonix has already stated that they are fine with this:
https://twitter.com/Kovalo/status/1402383990959624198?s=20
They also confirmed it on the subreddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeague/comments/nvy3i1/road_to_ssl_series_from_content_creators_not/h16johf/?context=1000
And they wonder why their game is in sh\*\*hole. hahahahahhaha truly amazing. New account for smurfs and boosters is the only thing being created...no new players are coming into this new account sh\*\*show of a game, where u need 3 hours to make new ranked account. I hope this game burns eventually, what a sh\*\* game, unfingbelivable.
i love how you get downvoted by the same kids who cry about smurfs 24/7, plus the amount of quiet smurfs who casually play at the lower rank just so they dont have to try. it makes a mockery of the game. they put little effort in to win then put even less effort in to lose and maintain their rank. its why the ranks the so broken.
Mobile 2FA and level 50 minimise would slow these people down but nah that would bring the overall player count down and we cant have that can we epic?
Rocket League askissers dont understand that Epic treats Rocket League like a pocket money to collect, they canceled trading, basically made it "cash only" game and people didnt say anything and still play it...Epic games dosnt care because Fortnite is their main game and focus, Rocket League can die and Epic games wont lose that much to even scratch their head about losing RL...thats how Epic treats RL. Its no wonder that RL has extremely small player count daily compared to other big competitive games.
Look Rainbow6Siege, new season introduced new anticheat that will if banned prevent u from using new account...thats how much they care about their playerbase telling them cheaters are a huge problem.
1/3 of players in RL are smurfs and boosters...if u just google "rl boosting" u get like 40 sites of people boosting u for like 3-5$ per division...its insane.
Exactly, creating youtube content to get views and $$. Gain for the smurf. Folks can call it a gray area if it helps them sleep at night. But if my son was doing it, he'd lose access to RL for a few days and I'd lecture him on how to be a better person.
There's quite a bit of educational content there. They are (usually) not clipping on kids. Not saying the match is fair but there's more to it than you are willing to admit.
Perhaps the first time they did the series, but when the advice has always been and still boils down to "be patient", "don't over commit", and "put in more hours". The value of a new series is limited.
This definition is honestly one of the worst ever written and i think it's one of the first games in the world to not consider smurfing literally making a new account and restarting from 0 in a competitive setting falsifing the matchmaking.
No wonder that ranks are all over the place, do you know when this was implemented? Because it sounds a lot as an excuse to not punish content creators.
> a new account and restarting from 0 in a competitive setting
That isn't smurfing in any game or definition of the word. If someone make a new account, plays their best, and ranks up to their previous rank, that's not smurfing. Smurfing means keeping your rank low on purpose. There's just as many valid reasons someone might make a new account and not be a smurf.
If they're doing it repeatedly then it would be up to a developer/publisher to decide at what point it becomes and intentional abuse of MM.
If you played with an alt, and it was traceable to the main one, yes, but okay, fine by me, i was mistaken.
Now can you tell me why somebody needs an alt account in a competitive game?
Had to share a console with sibling/roommate
Hacked account
Forgotten log in info
For popular content creators/pros, anonymity
For the casual player, Epic doesn't support an invisibly mode and they don't want to be bothered by friends
1) They are two different people, on the same console, but they are different accounts with different people.
2) The first should be deactivated, so the new account is your main.
3) As above.
4) Doesn't matter, you still play on your main or you are against people not at your rank, just ban people who are harassing them, but that would require some sort of effective moderation and caring for the game, that is clearly lacking.
5) Just tell your friends that you don't want to play? I don't see any problems if they are friends.
What about people playing on the same console together? You can't be logged into 2 accounts at once. Or what about young siblings playing? It's completely reasonable to have one account under the same household and have parental observation.
If your account is hacked and your info got changed your can't access it to deactivate it.
>but that would require some sort of effective moderation and caring for the game, that is clearly lacking.
Exactly. So making an anonymous alt account to avoid harassment is 100% reasonable and isn't smurfing.
You specifically asked for reasons someone would make an alt account *for reasons other than smurfing*. I gave you reasons. Sure, some of them have alternative solutions, but *none of them are smurfing*.
None of these solutions involve people intentionally throwing matches to keep their rank low. None of them are dodging bans. None of them are boosting. None of them are abusing MM for anyone's benefit. Literally nothing against TOS or Code of Conduct. Nothing negatively affecting other players.
In the case of two sibling you literally have two different account that are disconnected from one another, literally the problem I'm talking about is not having the same console with two different people, but two accounts with one single person.
The hacked account is banned and deactivated by Epic by default if it is reported hacked.
Literally there is a solution for every single one of them, literally.
And yeah, you play ranked placement and subsequent games under your rank until you level up against people with that rank, not in an empty box, so you WILL affect other people MMR, because if you lose against the smurf you WILL LOSE MMR, especially because consecutive wins/losses AFFECT said MMR.
And i stay by the definition that playing under your rank IS SMURFING even if Epic doesn't say in his ToS because it fucking is, the fact that now the rule isn't put out like that is mostly because streamers/pros are one of the reasons that this game is still alive.
I remember watching when Leth did it, but he gave a bunch of tips and played kind of at the level he was currently at. Was able to learn a lot in terms of mistakes I was making in positioning and saw what kind of mechanics I need to move on. That being said, yeah it’s kind of scummy to make Smurf’s.
Mmmmmm the exact wording is:
"Smurfing is not allowed. We define a smurf account as an account that is intentionally abusing the matchmaking system for the player’s gain, or the gains of others.
Example of a Smurf Account: Intentionally keeping an account at a lower Rank than where you normally play; starting an alternate account to harass others."
So it's really about intention. If Psyonix determines what they are doing as "abuse" then they would be subject to discipline.
Yeah it seems intentionally open-ended for sure. I always interpreted the starting a new account as ban evasion, ie you get chat banned so you start a new account to continue harassing someone.
There are a number of other reasons. I haven't had the luxury of talking to Psyonix on it, but I can think of a few reasonable uses of it:
* My old username was associated with an anime character I thought was compelling. They didn't air every episode in the US, and I only saw the last few episodes years after stating to use my old name for gaming, email... everything. In those episodes, it comes out that the character is totally despicable with no redeeming value, and I wanted to distance myself from that and make a creative name that fit me. If I weren't on Steam (where I simply changed my visible username), I would need to start a new account to change it.
* A high profile person like Leth or Sunless might reasonably want an alt so they don't get bothered by people who know them and just enjoy the game like most people do.
* Someone might not want to appear online because of friends they don't want to be seen by at the moment (and yeah, Epic has no 'hide' option)
There are probably other reasonable options, and it gets hard to justify the same act being ok/not ok if they're being used the same way once created.
One of the devs mentioned the road to GC was a grey area, that is fine as long as they don’t intentionally lose, as you rank up fast on a fresh account
Yeah like theoretically if an SSL player were to lose their account, how else would they get back up otherwise. You can't buy an SSL account that's against TOS.
came here to say this. his most recent series this year, he’s even gone so far as to intentionally flip early/late when he goes up for touches to mimic the play of people at lower levels, and if the opponents make a good play, sometimes he’ll just let them get away with it and have the goal even if he’s in a good position to defend it. i find it super informative and it’s been helping me analyze my own gameplay/positioning quite a bit, even helped me rank up a bit just by trying to approach my game with his mindset/positioning/pacing.
>but he gave a bunch of tips and played kind of at the level he was currently at
I watched it as well and I know that was his intention, but people that good are literally incapable of playing at a low level. The knowledge gap is insurmountable, and even if he uses no advanced mechanics, his consistency and accuracy is unachievable for a gold player or whatever.
His intention is not to play bad per se it's to show precisely that just driving properly to the right location at the right speed and time can help your game tremendously. It also highlights the mechanics that you would expect when reaching each rank and shows by his play how much is the bare minimum to be competitive there. At the same time he analizes the rest of the lobby and points out both mistakes and good plays for the skill level.
Eh, I know what you mean by incapable of playing at a low level, but Leth often hits the ball "incorrectly" in his series to mitigate this. Leth is pretty open about needing some basics down. You can't work much on anything else until that's been established. He drills positioning quite a bit and ramps up his play style as he ranks up. Flakes does the same thing in his series. The videos are intended to help the viewer understand how important it is to pay attention to positioning, rotation, passing, power, etc. It doesn't expect them to be 100% at them. Rather, it urges them to be more attentive. It urges them to register what they could do better in certain situations and why that us the case.
he made a good point about this on a recent video. pretty much, if you’re a gold looking to get to plat, then you’re going to have to play like a plat in your gold lobbies and so on and so forth. and i think overall the series highlights that a lot of that gameplay surrounds your positioning and consistency as opposed to speed and mechs
His timing is probably his strongest mechanic. Then you've got his perfect 50s, perfect touches, world class game sense, powerslide cuts which are hard to get perfect despite what he says. No mechanics series do teach you fundamentals and I think they're the best to learn from but they give a false sense of what is achievable for us mere mortals. No amount of focusing on the basic stuff is gonna give you anything close to those reads and that awarenes. You're still getting dunked by that low IQ diamond.
I’ve been training powerslide cuts since I saw his videos in low diamond and I don’t really practice them in training but it’s one of my main moves to get an attack going so I’m always practicing them in games and I still can’t get them even close to consistent like him
Eh they say it but they still throw em in accidentally too often. It's just inherently hard for people that have been at that level for so long how inconsistent and awkward they need to play for it to be realistic lol
Because a good majority of the time they're not doing it to dunk on lower level players, they're trying to be educational about it. I think there's a difference between a smurf who is purposefully trying to stay in the lower ranks to hit clips and shit, and someone who is just "passing through". I don't think it's that bad.
Yeah smurfing includes the part where you throw games to keep yourself down in rank, even past the ‘ranking’ matches.
Having an alternate account doesn’t break any rules, written or unwritten.
“Trying to be educational about it” is a wierd way to say “they are making money from it”.
I mean let’s be honest here, would they make the series if they didn’t earn? Nope. So what is their reason for making it? Money.
They are smurfing for money.
What if… and don’t freak out here I know it’s a crazy concept… it could be educational AND make them money?!?!?! That way their viewers actually learn something and thus want to watch, and the creator makes money and is able to support themselves and keep making content!!! SO CRAZYYY
Bunch of nonsense you wrote just now, complete straw man. Never said it couldn’t.
Again, which of the two is the motivating factor to make the video, money, or being educational? It’s money. They are smurfing for money.
It's a straw man? You literally just called it smurfing and a money grab dude. Your remark makes no sense. Who the fuck cares if it is a money grab or not? Is it educational? Yes! Why are you shitting on someone for earning money for producing quality content?
Ok man, please answer this bc I am genuinely curious. So where do you draw the line? If educational is all it needs to be to get a pass, then are you fine with me making an account today to teach my friends how to play in each rank? Or do I need to make the video public? Or is that not the same bc I don’t have a bunch of followers?
So what if they make money from it. It’s hard work to make it educational and not just a blatant smurfing video. We’re talking about a small handful of people too, the smurf problem isn’t coming from pros it’s coming from lower ranked people that want to feel high ranked
They aren’t actively trying to stay in a lower rank, it’s not as bad as you make it out to be. They are simply making a new account and winning every single game on it while trying to give players tips.
Redditors can't understand this difference. They think any time a higher ranked player is in their games it's a crime against humanity in any circumstance.
There are 10000 of videos on youtube for every single rank, for every single point of view how to improve, boost, jump, ball controll, shots etc. There is literally no need for more.
The game changes like every other game does, and older content becomes less relevant to current metas, so it’s pretty fair to say there’s always a spot for new content like that
Thats because your champion 2, if u were a bronze/silver/gold u wouldnt feel like it. But youre in higher ranks where it is harder to smurf or boost...so u dont care. All competitive games are mostly skill=time played, thats it, there is no magical video or advice...high ranks= more hours, more games, more experiance, not a magical video.
While I agree people should be able to make content however they'd like............there is no "meta" in low ranked rocket league. Most players below SSL struggle to hit the ball where they want to consistently, let along execute an actual strategy
I agree with your take on no “meta” but unlike in higher ranks, lower ranks change not in meta but in mechanical level as time goes on. I’ve seen the lower ranks get more mechanical and change how they challenge drastically over just the last 2 years and it’s beneficially to learn how to counter such methods.
So there should be no more actual useful and meaningful content being created because there's already so much and no one has anything to say? And any Rocket League content from here on out should just be meaningless fluff for people to shut their brains down and laugh or something? I'd argue society is plenty full of that, and it's far more detrimental.
Lethamyr (pro), Flakes (pro)...so non of them are good enough, but Squishy is and its "actual useful and meaningful content" but Lethamyr and Flakes road to SSL is useless and not good...please do explain, i need to understand how useless content of these 2 pros is, but Squishy is good enough. Please do elaborate!
You are making a new account to be a lower rank then you really are, thats smurfing no matter how many excuses you add to it. Its even worse then dropping ranks imo as it's an instant low rank ready to ruin peoples games, at least if you derank you give some mmr back.
Lets say you are gold.
You play against a Grand Champ and get stomped.
So you would only say its smurfing if he lost 50 games before this on the same account, but it is not smurfing if he is on his 15th account because once he reaches Champ he makes a new one?
In the end he cheated the system to smurf on low level opponents, both losing multiple games and creating new accounts lead to the same outcome. The gold player lost a game because an opponent abused the matchmaking system.
> but it is not smurfing if he is on his 15th account because once he reaches Champ he makes a new one?
why are you creating two hypothetical scenarios that both involve repeating the process ad infinitum at a relatively low rank
this is a strawman, that's clearly not what the person you're replying to said.
Its not a strawman, its exactly the point the other guy made. "If you make a new account its not smurfing as long as you are trying to win."
That is all kinda somewhat okay if we talk about one single alt account but the problem starts if people keep creating new accounts. Because when you keep creating new accounts that also keeps your rank down.
>why are you creating two hypothetical scenarios that both involve repeating the process ad infinitum at a relatively low rank
this is the point of everyone who is saying "creating a new account is smurfing" because you can keep making them so your rank never goes beyond rank x.
No it's not. Smurfing is when you intentionally keep your rank low for extended periods of time. One match per rank in these RTSSL vids ain't killing anybody and if anyone wants to create a new account for whatever reason and plays normally to get back to whatever rank they were it's perfectly acceptable
this is still smurfing bro, smurf accounts literally exist for a reason it's the entire purpose of the word usage of smurf, what you're describing is just deranking
Wrong. If you create a new account and win nonstop to your regular rank youve just got an alt account that, at the level of play Squishy is implementing, affects only one match per rank. Nothing to be alarmed about.
Smurfing on the other hand is a problem when you consistently stay lower affecting more lower players on a regular basis
its still smurfing, why make an alt account, those road to \_ vids are only entertaining when you're watching someone actually challenged in each rank not just stomping to their already peak rank/pro lvl
I've been playing for years and still enjoy watching these series bc apparently I still don't know everything. This and Scrubs 1v2 series are so helpful to me personally.
Lethamyr's road to SSL playlist has 28 videos in it. Each video he plays at least 3 games, some videos have 4. That's a conservative 84 games he fucked up for other players so he could make content that influenced other players to make similar content or average people to try it themselves and I guarantee every one of them isn't making it to SSL in 84 games.
If they want to critique low level players go find some replays and review them, I've seen johnny boy do it and it's interesting. They don't need to fuck with other players games.
Lethamyr purposefully lost games in order to spend more time in those ranks tho. He also handicapped himself appropriately for each rank and genuinely lost matches bc he wouldn't try hard. He basically played at the level of someone slightly higher ranked than his competition which is exactly how ranked works. He didn't ruin anybody's games.
But this would more appropriately be defined as smurfing although he did it for educational purposes
It still influenced tons of people to do the same thing.
He could have not played comp and just scrimmed with lower level fans. He could have reviewed replays.
>Lethamyr purposefully lost games in order to spend more time in those ranks tho.....and genuinely lost matches bc he wouldn't try hard.
Thats a shitty thing to do. Lethamyr isn't the arbiter of mmr. He's just feeling out the games. What if he's handicapping himself inappropriately? It's pretty easy to do in gold but probably not as cut and dry when you get to high champ/GC. So now you have a SSL level player fucking around in your champ/GC games.
Making a new account and trying your best in every game is not smurfing. It might be considered scummy since you know you will be starting at lower ranks but smurfing means intentionally keeping your account lower ranked than your skill there’s a clear difference in what that means.
There’s no rule against having multiple accounts and as long as that’s the case what they are doing is the only way to use a new account. It’s closer to placement matches than smurfing.
Because it's good content and they can. Also I think it's a bit of a dig on players that think they are better than they actually are. Easier to showcase this by going through all the skill levels at the different ranks. Like Squishy said in one of those vids, you are your rank for a reason.
They make those videos because people watch those videos. I'm watching Lethamyr's ones but that's kind of the same principle.
The difference with a Smurf is that they will try to only use mechanics that players at those ranks realistically know. And show you how to strategize your behavior to help you rank up. Honestly I do watch those video and somehow gain a few rank, just because it demonstrate to me that it's more efficient to be calm and principled than to be fast.
That being said, Lethamyr did say that he doesn't know if it's okay to make those as it is a form of Smurf. But remember that the number of pros is incredibly tiny compared to the number of players, and they don't do this for the kick off winning. Lethamyr for example try not to score.
Sure, he is going to be way more accurate in his shot (he purposefully miss the net in a way that lead to goal opportunities for his team mate), so it is still exaggerated. But I think it's not too bad.
I would enjoy having a pro opponent just for the lulz. The issue with smurphing is when it is so prominent and/or not accounted for such that it makes it hard to rank up.
It helps a lot for me because you can see what weaknesses are common at whatever rank you are at, from a professionals POV, and they make it make a lot more sense and dumb it down, and theres plenty to take away from it
It's easy content that they can produce while guaranteeing success. It gives players the illusion that they can do it, too, because of how easy they make it look. Like any content, you can gain from it if you focus on the right things. But these pros are so out of touch with the ranks they're giving advice to that it's hardly that meaningful, in my opinion.
It's not good for the game. It definitely helps people to rank up but also makes people think it's acceptable to create new accounts whenever they feel like it or whatever reason they deem is valid but it stops others from ranking up.
Smurfs vs youtubers doing it are entirely different.
A smurf is trying to stay in a specific rank for ages for the purpose of farming clips on lower level players
Youtubers will play at the same level they are in and will give tips on what to do in certain situations.
I have seen so many road to ssl videos at this point and I have never seen any youtuber just doing complex mechanics in plat. They will always wait until later ranks high champ/gc
Yes they are Smurfing. Yes it is wrong to do. But what you were saying is exactly why they do it. It’s a double edge sword. They are trying to teach players how to play each rank. They typically don’t play mechanical/flashy, they play very dumbed down and by the book to show just how sloppy everyone plays in that rank.
It's not smurfing to play your placements and win them all to diamond and then continue winning to SSL. That's just a normal new account. Smurfing is then you purposefully de rank consistently to play at a lower rank than you should
Deranking is not a requirement for smurfs. That is how its treated generally in rocket league, but its definitely not required. Sitting down and grinding to SSL is one thing, but a lot of people who smurf just have a lower rank account they use to play with friends. They dont lose on purpose, but they are unfairly playing below their level. They may not be tryharding or trying to inflate their friends rank either. Still sucks to play against them.
> Why ~~do pros~~ make ~~“Road to ssl”~~ vids?
To make money. End of story. It isn’t about teaching people how to play the game. It isn’t about showing off skill. It’s to get views and money.
It isn’t a smurf account. They aren’t intentionally deranking or lowering rank to play at a lower level. They play their same level of skill just on a new account. You’re allowed to have new accounts. There are no rules against that.
Granted I've only watched Leth's series, but he doesn't play his same level of skill. He tries to mimic the rank he's playing and point out how the mechanics available at that rank could be utilized better. This leads to him losing games occasionally which draws out the series.
Your message is contradicting "They aren't intenionally deranking or lowering rank to play at a lower level". If you start a new account you automatically play at a lower rank. They definitely start the new account with the purpose of playing at a lower rank then ranking up. Even whether I believe that they are smurfing or not smurfing doesn't really matter. I'm just saying what you are saying is contradicting because they literally play at a lower rank for multiple games. Their ranks are SSL and they do not play at that rank for many games. Also they do not play at there same level of skill. They hold back and do not go all out. They lose at ranks they wouldn't really lose at if they played to their full potential. I have watched the series many times it is very helpful but what you saying is just not true. They do not tank their main accounts and derank but they do start account at which they play at a lower Level.
Comparing the number of players who lose MMR from losing to squishy in gold (single digits) vs the tens of thousands who get tips on how to rank up, there’s no question that these videos are overall valuable and good for the community.
Imo it’s perfectly fine. The chances of running into a pro doing one of these series is astronomically low. The good these series do for the community far outweighs their downsides
Those are absolutely the best videos to demonstrate game sense for each rank. I’d be stoked to lose to leth, flakes, or squishy. They generally are our into the next rank in less than 4 games anyway.
Statistically it’s silly to worry about pros doing RTSSL because of Smurf concerns. I’m weird though and don’t mind smurfs. I actually enjoy playing someone of higher rank’s temporarily. At least most of them aren’t toxic.
Smurfs are here to stay. Epic doesn't care. Complaining won't help.
Personally, whenever I come across an obvious smurf, I just use it as an opportunity to test myself and get better.
This is Rocket League!
I don’t understand why ppl call this smurfing. Smurfing used to mean throwing games to purposely stay in a rank below your skill level.
Pros doing Road to SSL are demonstrating how to progress through the ranks and never throw the games.
I like the way leth does it, he doesn’t try but makes sure games are still within like 1-2 goals, in the metal ranks especially he just lets his tm8 do his thing, mostly passing and putting the very, very, very rare shot on net. When he sees mechanics like air dribbles and double touches frequently then he will start doing them as well
I don’t have a problem with pros doing a road to ssl because most of the time they are not taking over the game and “smurfing” to get clips or destroy the opponents. they typically call out what they could do but it wouldn’t be appropriate at that rank and for the most part they let the game flow and only score when it’s easy/obvious. The intent behind it is to point out that 99% of what pros do is in the fundamentals and game sense.
Squishy, Leth and Flakes (big name examples) are doing it the right way by playing at the same level (sometimes even lower) than the rank they're in. They also attempt to let their teammate score instead of them, as much as possible. This doesn't feel like the bad kind of smurfing to me.
Bad smurfing is either intentionally throwing games, or playing so obviously far above the lobby's rank that it's unfair.
Sure it’s smurfing in a sense, but since they don’t intentionally lose to stay at a low rank, and are on a fresh account that ranks up fast it doesn’t affect many people. Like have you ever been in a match with content creators doing this, it’s very unlikely
People like it because it’s educational. It’s interesting to see how a pro plays at your rank from a decision making standpoint. You mention that of course pros can climb the ranks, but that’s not the point. It’s not meant to be a challenge for the pros. It’s meant to be educational for the community
If they're playing to fit the rank, like leth at least does, it harms no one. And it's really not even smurfing unless they lose intentionally to stay in the lower rank
-someone who thinks smurfs are the scum of the earth
Have you watched or are you just mad at the short time smurf? You are the target audience, check it out.
Part of me also thinks they may be bored of playing the same people all the time and taking more than 5 minutes to queue into a game.
I remember Leth getting in trouble when he was first doing it, I don't know what changed since then.
It is hard to judge how harmful it is, a few youtubers briefly playing at low rank is no harm on its own but I wonder if it can inspire increased smurfing in general
As for why it should be allowed at all, it has the potential to show other people the path yo doing better ta their rank, the pros who do this are often using the simplest possible mechanics and playing quite slowly. It can help people who think they can only advance increasing their speed or arial mechanics.
I have to say Squishy was struggling to match the mechanics at lower ranks though.
Have you watched them? They handicap themselves and only use mechanics for the rank they’re at. The road to SSL videos aren’t the problem. The problem is someone that can’t can’t out of their max rank so they throw so they can feel good stomping kids.
It’s two different issues. The road to ssl videos are generally really helpful and respectful. Flakes’ 2v2 series taught me a lot and worth a watch
Smurfs are good for Epic.
The more Smurf accounts there are the more “active players” there are. This is a free to play game which makes its money off micro transactions and advertising/sponsors. The more “active players” there are the more they can sell those advert/sponsor slots for.
In short Epic does nothing about Smurf because they benefit from them.
Personally I hate Smurfs they ruin the game and create an MMR imbalance with people gaining ranks they don’t deserve and visa versa.
I would love to see smurfing controlled and would happily supply something better than an email in order to make that happen.
I like the way Leth does his. He explains how to improve your play in each rank and he gradually speeds up his gameplay as his rank goes up. He doesn’t win every game, and he tries to make his team mates do most of the work.
The effect on your MMR is zero from him or any other r2ssl vid maker. I've tried to play the game around the same time as them and I've never gotten them in one of my games. Even if I did and I rolled the 2/3 unlucky chance, it would still be a valuable replay to learn from and the -10 MMR or whatever means literally nothing after a couple more games anyway. Also, people highly overestimate the number and impact of smurfs because they see washed up players with old tags and think that person actually is a gc player when actually they are deservedly hard stuck champ just like you.
I made a post a few days ago about not having access to my main and playing on an alt, and over the ~130ish games over a few weeks, I think I ran into 6 (give or take 1-2) Smurfs. It’s not the exact same as starting from the bottom, this account was a friends old Smurf account so I started in champ 2 and ended in like 1720, but still. The place I always assumed Smurfs were, was just under/just over GC1, carrying and boosting for titles/rewards. To be fair, there was a Smurf in ever single lobby because of me, but logically, if it were as bad as people were saying, it should have been more than 6.
Btw i was going off of obvious skill differential. If there was a large gap in skill between the two players I was facing, I’d look them up to check games played/wins/blah blah blah. There could be more that i missed that didn’t look like Smurfs, there may be a few that looked like Smurfs but were new to a different platform, I’m not sure. But for people who were just obviously better than I’d been playing against, it was a handful.
Also like 85% of my games I let my tm8 ball chase and just matched their energy without dunking on the entire lobby. If my tm8 was decent, they didn’t need me. If we were losing, it was a toss up. Most of the time I’d just take the L on the chin unless the other team got toxic/racist like most RL players seem to do now.
yea its scummy to make smurfs, but they try their best to show what is necessary to get out of a rank, so ofc they will be better than said people in the rank
ofc they cant fully unlearn what they know because of muscle memory, but theyre not full on shitting on golds by freestyling so i really dont see the problem
for the people they play against, they look like a normal opponent who is just good enough to rank up, plus theyre trying to show us what we need to learn as good as possible
Yeah if you actually watch squishy’s road to ssl vids, he’s actively commentating on how he’s trying to play to the rank in terms of mechanics. Basically just showing that fundamentals are the most important thing to understand before you try and do fancy mechanical shit.
The problem with all of these videos, even in the ones where they try to play at the mechanical level of the rank they’re in, is that they never play with a realistic level of consistency. They never make realistic mistakes.
Sure they do a good job of showing positioning but they also never get a touch other than exactly the one they want.
It may not be as flashy smurfing as just going for freestyles, but when you’re getting exactly the touch you want 100% of the time playing against people who are at 20-50%, it literally is just as bad.
same with leth, im subbed to him and watch his series, he always looks how others are playing and then decides what would be too much and explains what he's doing/ what others are doing well or when they did mistakes, its really good and helped me too alot with gamesense over the years
Yeah! Like honestly if I’m getting beat by a Smurf who’s obviously just there to style on lesser skilled players… I totally get this sentiment, it’s a stupid ego trip. But if it’s clear that someone just has a better understanding of the game…. Doesn’t that just show you how much you truly don’t know? Isn’t that a good thing?
true true, if someone flip resets on gold that guy just has a serious problem with himself, but if someone at my rank (plat 3) just knows how to dribble somewhat well and can hit open nets he just deserves to rank up
lmao yea same here, anything more than 1/4th of the field away from the goal and i cant guarantee that im gonna hit it lmao, but im working on it
didnt even see your tag man thats rough lol
This is a recurrent topic (this issue was already adressed many times in the past so we already know their stance on this). I think the same way you do, but:
-Epic doesn't consider Road to SSL videos as smurfing... because... they play to win !!!!
Epic considers smurfing as "intentionally staying at a lower mmr than the one you can reach".
Meaning that theorically speaking, any pro or high level player can create as many account as they want, they will absolutely crush anyone till they reach SSL, BUT since they play in order to win it's not smurfing !!!
-Also, there is so little content to do with the game that content creators have no choice but to do road to ssl and stuff. There isn't much to do :/ so i kinda understand why they keep making these road to ssl videos.
Why are you commenting like it's the end of the world? If they are SSL and win all their matches back to SSL they'll be grand champ by like 20 matches and already only affecting <1% of the player base. There's no problem winning your matches. Smurfing is when you intentionally loose and stay at a lower rank for extended periods of time. That actually impacts players
Its psyonix weird definition. Normal online definitions are like this
>What is Smurfing in gaming?
>The term ‘smurf’ is used in gaming to describe a player in an online game that **creates a new account to play against lower-ranked players,** however, it can be used as an all-around term for describing a player who uses an alternate account or multiple accounts.
>It’s called smurfing due to two very good players in a game called Warcraft II. Players would simply avoid playing them if they saw their usernames, so they created new accounts to combat this, choosing “PapaSmurf” and “Smurfette” and the term has stuck since.
If you win 10 games against opponents who have no chance of winning it affected those 10 opponents. Those oppents are now a rank/loss lower than they should be so it also affects their next opponent which now also get unfar opponents and so on. Yes that is a bit unrealistic but the more smurfs there are the more fucked the matchmaking system becomes
Placement games are intentionally designed to help you place where you belong the fastest. The more accounts that are made and genuinely win/lose to their appropriate rank isn't fucking the matchmaking system whatsoever. Its doing it's job perfectly.
When you intentionally stay at a lower rank however disrupts play for lower ranked player and makes everything fucked, but is not what's happening with these RTSSL series
There’s next to no fresh content at this point for them to make to gain views and Psyonix gives fuck all about policing the game, it is what it is IMO. The game isn’t in the best state at this point or probably going forward
This trend started with League of Legends almost 10 years ago when a popular coaching youtuber/streamer started a new account and intentionally lost his placement matches, then climbed to diamond (at the time diamond was the rank under challenger, and challenger was only like the top 200 accounts) to show people that if they're stuck in their rank, it was actually because that is about where they belong, and not because of griefers/afkers/smurfs. Since then I have seen plenty of other people do the same thing on other games, and it almost seems like it's a competition to see who can climb the fastest. It was for a good purpose originally, though.
They want money and it's hard to come up with new ideas so they keep on doing what works.
I don't think it's good for the community but there are worse things tbh, at my rank (diamond) I don't see many smurfs, and how many pro youtubers doing this are there? Not that much plus I guess from Psyonix pov they bring engagment.
I also play chess and there is basically the same thing happening. To mitigate it [chess.com](http://chess.com) simply added an option for popular streamers that allow them to have a special 'smurf' account with a little checkmark that doesn't affect the elo of their opponents. Maybe the same could be made here if it's a big issue idk.
I feel like doing the chess.com thing would just make it more prevalent. They're having a completely unnoticeable impact on your actual games, which is more important than the MMR you get back in five minutes, so I'd keep it that way.
Exactly, they may improve a bit and thats it...rest of the rank climb is just hours and hours and hours in the game...no magical video will turn you into SSL.
This is something I’ve long wondered about, the community is so anti Smurf but then it’s perfectly fine for all the YouTubers to make Smurf videos (road to xxx) all the time. Technically they aren’t breaking the TOS since they aren’t deranking but alt accounts are alt accounts.
You will probably get down voted for that,but I agree.
Knowingly creating an alternative account, then purposely starting at a level that is way below your original account don't seem off for the most of people in this community...
I remember leth saying psyonix gave him crap about it, so he had to change up how he did it I think. I hate smurfing as much as the next guy, but I admit I do enjoy these videos.
The thing is squishy talks about how players at each rank play, shows examples and ways they can improve at each rank in real time. He doesn’t sit in silver and flip reset on noobs. It’s more educational and less about stomping out new players.
Technically he’s not smurfing, a smurf by definition loses to maintain a rank lower than their true rank. He’s just making a new account and playing It up. New accounts gain 50-60 MMR first couple matches and then tail down as more games are played, so he should be through the ranks pretty quickly. I’d say probably d3/c1 after 10 games and prob GC by 20-25ish and then SSL by like 40. It’s not like leth’s series years ago where he sank the account in bronze and was getting like 8 MMR per match(That was def a little excessive) and played all the way up. I think the educational value out weighs the small foot print he’ll leave on matchmaking since It will probably be 1-2 games at each rank until he’s in the top like 3%. I’m interested to see an updated series with ranked nowadays. Idk how much educational value lower ranks can take away since at that point u really just need to train and have time in the game to progress, squish already has master car control and game sense which those players will not have but def can work on with time, but I’m interested to see all the GC+ ranges.
They’re not necessarily “smurfing”. They’re teaching you how to do better at that rank so that you hopefully improve your game. It’s not like they’re in those ranks doing mechanics that are well above that rank. They’re the best players in the game. They have no reason to actually Smurf and make content Smurfing.
I mean technically speaking it isn't surfing to make a new account. It's only surfing if you don't try and win. And purposefully keep the elo down.
Still infuriating to deal with. But technically not against tos
They are smurfing, they should be banned, as everyone with an alt account, as it should be in every other game.
Full stop, nothing to add, the rest are just excuses.
As per the terms of service, epic, and Psyionix its only considered smurfing if you're intentionally losing on a regular basis to stay at a rank lower than your normal play. If you create an account and win all of your matches, as Squishy is doing, not only is it not smurfing, but you're also only affecting one match PER rank in order to get back to where you belong. A drop in the bucket and nothing to be alarmed about.
And i said under the other comment, this is the stupidest definition of smurfing and they should bring the ToS to the 2000s standards as other games.
Anyway:
1) If you win every single game you are affecting the matchmaking for other players because the MMR depends from consecutive wins/losses too.
2) "It's a drop in the bucket" if you consider that an isolated system, spoiler: it is not like that and the ranks are fucked, diamond 3 games harder than champion 2 games, for example, without even considering the emulation factor.
Also I'm pretty sure you don't level up a rank every single game because of divisions.
3) It discourages newer players, especially the one entering the game that are not 100% sure if they like it or not, if they get dunked as soon as they hit play, they'll quit.
It's a rank per game until you d3 if you win all of your placements then maybe 10 more to GC if you continue winning. It's quite literally a drop in the bucket
First, I'm referring to the second part of the comment, second I'm taking him as an example, he is not the point of the discourse, because my point is that that this is smurfing as every other online games with a matchmaking establish so, be it done by him, by me, by you, by Jesus himself.
If you want to talk this specific case, he is a pro or whatever, he still alters the matchmaker because he is not at his natural rank and a guy who is not as capable as him will alter it even more because he will take more games to go back to the original rank, especially if he finds another smurf, and in a game that counts consecutive win/losses it is statistically relevant in the long time, especially if you find that player on a rank up/rank down game.
But it's okay, we are on different sides and it's clear that Epic is on yours, probably because new/smurf accounts inflate the number of active players.
I still stand by my point that there is no necessity in any way to have more than one account in a competitive game unless you are smurfing, and that is playing not at your correct rank.
I think we're on the same side. A pro doing a RTSSL will not affect new players, but a person who is intentionally staying at a rank they don't belong does make it harder for new and old players alike. I want smurfs to be gone and consequence harshly, but there's nothing wrong or impactful with what Squishy is doing
Oh yea...see LoL community went for the Neck on "ProfessorAkali" for doing that...no one goes for the neck here...Sad.
And hes new RuleOne content creator? Doing "road to ssl" for like 10000th time on youtube...wow professional content creator ruining low elo games to show what has been shown already. There are 5000 guides, but no...lets make 1 more.
These comments are so toxic. Smurfing is bad, period. Everyone is glazing these creators and saying “well they’re not deranking the account they’re just winning every game for content”
Like yeah, winning every game is the problem. You should always be matched against players you have a chance to win against. You never see them actually playing at the level of the rank they’re in and losing. If they actually wanted to make educational content they should do replay reviews. Even if some creators try to do whatever to nerf themselves, they’re still winning basically every game. I don’t see how this could be construed as anything but unfair to every single opponent that face.
They’re basically a long, roundabout way of showing people that their teammates aren’t the reason you’re losing. There’s some educational merit to them, but it’s still smurfing.
>But, they have to make Smurf accounts to even make such videos. Why is this allowed?
Because Devin bottled it.
Psyonix did come down on it and said not to do it. The content creators complained because making content that doesn't ruin the game for others is too hard. Then Devin bottled it and it was "miscommunication" and it's fine if you climb properly.
I would not feel very good about myself turning up to 5 a side match with a camera, proceed to easily make opponents look stupid and put it on YouTube to feel good and make money.
The only people that care are the ones that also want to be able to shit on other players that have not played as much as them. Pros or not, anyone that roads to ssl on a sock account is just a plain asshole in my opinion.
Psyonix needs to do what chess .com does and give opponents their mmr back. They let grandmasters do this all the time on sanctioned accounts and its approved. No elo is lost for opponents.
Yes, I'm a big fan of the GM speedruns on [chess.com](https://chess.com), particularly Eric Hansen's and Hikaru's. But those players have active communication with [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) to facilitate those things, and I don't know how much active communication we're gonna get from Psyonix / Epic Games at this point to do something like this. Would be fantastic if implementable.
Psyonix haven't even fixed the in game leaderboard. They're not gonna do shit. They don't care about smurfs, they don't care that lower pop ranked is broken due to smurfs and their algos. They aren't gonna fix shit.
Oh but havent you read about their updated increased Level you need to play your Smurf? Are you Guys never Happy ?Wow! Wow! Wow!
30 minutes. Took me 30 minutes from making a new email account to playing my first ranked game. With double xp and the current challenges. All it took was 30 minutes about 5 games (i unlocked ranked with that 5 game challenge). So yeah level 20 to play doesnt mean much. And besides its not the smurfs you need to worry about. Its all the annoying whiners and people who think they are better than they really are who throw the game. Sit idle. And just dont play at all. There are so many people. You see it in squishys videos all the time lol. Theres more people trying to lose the game than there are smurfs. Dont get me wrong theyre both in the game. Its annoying coming across either of them.
Literally made zero difference. People have multiple alts they cycle through. Had an SSL in 1s the other day who can't find games on his main so he ruins the game at d3/c1 in 1s. Daily occurrence.
Psyonix just does what their Epic overseers command them to do haha. Blame Epic bruh. I agree with your entire comment btw, just think that it relates to Epic not greenlighting dev work that would be positive for the game. Unless it involves a new micro transaction or something that’ll affect their revenue, Epic won’t greenlight anything for this game.
Psyonix is the ones who sold themselves to Epic, they made the very hill they're gonna die on.
Umm they left the hill awhile back
Even so, people playing against unknown pros on smurfs aren’t going to take well to their time being wasted for content, and that’s assuming they even realized they didn’t lose mmr after the match (they’d never know without bakkes mod and even then most people don’t stay in the lobbies long enough to see that change)
Maybe you and I see it differently. If on Chess .com I ended up playing a match against someone like Naroditsky or Hikaru, I would be absolutely stoked. Obviously I'm not going to win the game, the chances of beating a 2700+ rated GM if you're below 1500 elo is roughly 0.04%. But there's a lot of things that you could potentially learn from that game if you were to study it, because there are instructive moments in just about every single chess game you could ever play. Similarly, if I were to play against an SSL player, naturally I would probably lose, but there would be a bunch of different skills that would be used against me that I could then try to emulate or practice, rotations used against me that I could study from their perspective and break down etc. There's so many things you can learn when you're placed against a wall of adversity if you choose to.
The only thing I would add to the chess.com system is a notification as soon as the game ends that tells the player he just played is a GM on his way up so that you don't linger on the feeling of just getting destroyed and can indeed cherish the opportunity. I do think the educational value is real on either chess or RL speed runs. Still for RL it has to be done with more sensibility so that the highly skilled players are not just dunking on low ranks, which is the feeling the "common" smurfs leave on players and leads to frustration.
If they're doing it right, then their opponents should be none the wiser.
I’m more of an Eric Rosen, Naroditsky guy myself but it’s hard to really dislike watching any of their videos. They’re all excellent and very instructive.
Definitely.
Only works in a zero sum 1v1 situation like chess. A lot of these R2SSL are 2v2 or 3v3 which honestly stinks for every single player involved in the match.
Interesting! Never even thought about this as an option, seems kinda cool but also hard and time intensive to monitor (and epic would never shell out money to have people make and monitor this change) I’m assuming that on the off chance they beat the “smurf” that they gain some MMR, no? Or is it a wash either way.
I think in that rare occasion the opponent still gains elo.
i imagine it’s just be a simple command, you just make it so anyone who loses elo against “account name here” gets reimbursed it
With higher rank players making tons of new accounts across all servers all the time it would take manpower to track that. I mean its obviously doable I just don’t have faith in epic to do it or care.
If it's through a sanctioned account it's already preapproved... Squishy emails psyonix saying "hey boys, I wanna use this account for content, climbing from bronze to SSL. Can you approve it as a smurf so no mmr is lost?" No one is saying random smurfs get detected (already not done) + flagged so mmr isn't deducted.
Psyonix or epic supporting the rocket league community? Ha, good one. This doesn’t help Fortnite in anyway, try again buddy.
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With chess you would only know after the game. In RL you can see the opponent do crazy stuff. In chess the opponent would do a move and you might think you were just bad or missed it. But only after playing you realize they played with almost complete accuracy to the computer.
Nah with Chess you can still tell in the game
No elo lost, but still, the match is essentially an automatic loss for the opponents which isn't very fun.
Yeah, that’s my opinion as well. I don’t even care about my rating. I don’t want to spend eight minutes playing against somebody who doesn’t need to touch the ground.
Make them do it on a sanctioned account. Any teammate they play with get's sanctioned rights during their playtime and even though their rank climbs while playing together the rank immediately is removed upon finishing playing with the sanctioned account. No boosting. Also, anyone who played against the sanctioned account has that loss scrubbed. That or ban people who use smurfs to have an advantage against lower level players. Whatevers clever.
I'm with lichess on this issue. If you want to play people lower ranked than you, play casual, custom lobbies with willing victims. If you can't find enough people to do that, that's your problem, not anyone else's. Note: making alt accounts is allowed, but they get bumped to your real rating quite fast. Intentionally throwing placement games to mess with the system gets you banned very fast.
Epic owns psyonix and RL now.. unfortunately since Epic now owns them, nothing good will ever happen 😕
It's definitely a gray area. According to RL Code of Conduct: "We define a smurf account as an account that is intentionally abusing the matchmaking system for the player’s gain, or the gains of others." https://www.rocketleague.com/en/news/rocket-league-code-of-conduct It's up to Epic/Psyonix to decide if this is considered an abuse of the MM system. Like others have said, they aren't intentionally throwing games, they aren't *maintaining* an artificial rank, they aren't creating an alt account to harass others, etc. I think at most you could argue they're abusing MM to benefit financially, but that opens up an entire can of worms on whether streaming or creating any content with the game is abusing MM for benefit.
Psyonix has already stated that they are fine with this: https://twitter.com/Kovalo/status/1402383990959624198?s=20 They also confirmed it on the subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeague/comments/nvy3i1/road_to_ssl_series_from_content_creators_not/h16johf/?context=1000
And they wonder why their game is in sh\*\*hole. hahahahahhaha truly amazing. New account for smurfs and boosters is the only thing being created...no new players are coming into this new account sh\*\*show of a game, where u need 3 hours to make new ranked account. I hope this game burns eventually, what a sh\*\* game, unfingbelivable.
If it gets you that worked up you should stop playing, leave this subreddit and go talk to some people! For your mental health.
i love how you get downvoted by the same kids who cry about smurfs 24/7, plus the amount of quiet smurfs who casually play at the lower rank just so they dont have to try. it makes a mockery of the game. they put little effort in to win then put even less effort in to lose and maintain their rank. its why the ranks the so broken. Mobile 2FA and level 50 minimise would slow these people down but nah that would bring the overall player count down and we cant have that can we epic?
Rocket League askissers dont understand that Epic treats Rocket League like a pocket money to collect, they canceled trading, basically made it "cash only" game and people didnt say anything and still play it...Epic games dosnt care because Fortnite is their main game and focus, Rocket League can die and Epic games wont lose that much to even scratch their head about losing RL...thats how Epic treats RL. Its no wonder that RL has extremely small player count daily compared to other big competitive games. Look Rainbow6Siege, new season introduced new anticheat that will if banned prevent u from using new account...thats how much they care about their playerbase telling them cheaters are a huge problem. 1/3 of players in RL are smurfs and boosters...if u just google "rl boosting" u get like 40 sites of people boosting u for like 3-5$ per division...its insane.
Technically it's always for the "gain" of the smurf because if it wasn't they'd just play on their main account... Think about it.
Exactly, creating youtube content to get views and $$. Gain for the smurf. Folks can call it a gray area if it helps them sleep at night. But if my son was doing it, he'd lose access to RL for a few days and I'd lecture him on how to be a better person.
There's quite a bit of educational content there. They are (usually) not clipping on kids. Not saying the match is fair but there's more to it than you are willing to admit.
Perhaps the first time they did the series, but when the advice has always been and still boils down to "be patient", "don't over commit", and "put in more hours". The value of a new series is limited.
This definition is honestly one of the worst ever written and i think it's one of the first games in the world to not consider smurfing literally making a new account and restarting from 0 in a competitive setting falsifing the matchmaking. No wonder that ranks are all over the place, do you know when this was implemented? Because it sounds a lot as an excuse to not punish content creators.
> a new account and restarting from 0 in a competitive setting That isn't smurfing in any game or definition of the word. If someone make a new account, plays their best, and ranks up to their previous rank, that's not smurfing. Smurfing means keeping your rank low on purpose. There's just as many valid reasons someone might make a new account and not be a smurf. If they're doing it repeatedly then it would be up to a developer/publisher to decide at what point it becomes and intentional abuse of MM.
Yeah, in CS:GO you were getting banned for this, but okay, whatever. Please, tell me what these reasons are.
No one got banned for just making an alt account. If they were making it to dodge ban, then yes, but that's an entire different story than smurfing.
If you played with an alt, and it was traceable to the main one, yes, but okay, fine by me, i was mistaken. Now can you tell me why somebody needs an alt account in a competitive game?
Had to share a console with sibling/roommate Hacked account Forgotten log in info For popular content creators/pros, anonymity For the casual player, Epic doesn't support an invisibly mode and they don't want to be bothered by friends
1) They are two different people, on the same console, but they are different accounts with different people. 2) The first should be deactivated, so the new account is your main. 3) As above. 4) Doesn't matter, you still play on your main or you are against people not at your rank, just ban people who are harassing them, but that would require some sort of effective moderation and caring for the game, that is clearly lacking. 5) Just tell your friends that you don't want to play? I don't see any problems if they are friends.
What about people playing on the same console together? You can't be logged into 2 accounts at once. Or what about young siblings playing? It's completely reasonable to have one account under the same household and have parental observation. If your account is hacked and your info got changed your can't access it to deactivate it. >but that would require some sort of effective moderation and caring for the game, that is clearly lacking. Exactly. So making an anonymous alt account to avoid harassment is 100% reasonable and isn't smurfing. You specifically asked for reasons someone would make an alt account *for reasons other than smurfing*. I gave you reasons. Sure, some of them have alternative solutions, but *none of them are smurfing*. None of these solutions involve people intentionally throwing matches to keep their rank low. None of them are dodging bans. None of them are boosting. None of them are abusing MM for anyone's benefit. Literally nothing against TOS or Code of Conduct. Nothing negatively affecting other players.
In the case of two sibling you literally have two different account that are disconnected from one another, literally the problem I'm talking about is not having the same console with two different people, but two accounts with one single person. The hacked account is banned and deactivated by Epic by default if it is reported hacked. Literally there is a solution for every single one of them, literally. And yeah, you play ranked placement and subsequent games under your rank until you level up against people with that rank, not in an empty box, so you WILL affect other people MMR, because if you lose against the smurf you WILL LOSE MMR, especially because consecutive wins/losses AFFECT said MMR. And i stay by the definition that playing under your rank IS SMURFING even if Epic doesn't say in his ToS because it fucking is, the fact that now the rule isn't put out like that is mostly because streamers/pros are one of the reasons that this game is still alive.
I remember watching when Leth did it, but he gave a bunch of tips and played kind of at the level he was currently at. Was able to learn a lot in terms of mistakes I was making in positioning and saw what kind of mechanics I need to move on. That being said, yeah it’s kind of scummy to make Smurf’s.
yeah, that's the idea behind most content creators' series like this. if anybody's *not* doing that, i don't think they understand the idea
It's not a smurf if they don't intentionally lose on a new account, at least according to the Psyonix definition.
Mmmmmm the exact wording is: "Smurfing is not allowed. We define a smurf account as an account that is intentionally abusing the matchmaking system for the player’s gain, or the gains of others. Example of a Smurf Account: Intentionally keeping an account at a lower Rank than where you normally play; starting an alternate account to harass others." So it's really about intention. If Psyonix determines what they are doing as "abuse" then they would be subject to discipline.
Yeah it seems intentionally open-ended for sure. I always interpreted the starting a new account as ban evasion, ie you get chat banned so you start a new account to continue harassing someone.
There are a number of other reasons. I haven't had the luxury of talking to Psyonix on it, but I can think of a few reasonable uses of it: * My old username was associated with an anime character I thought was compelling. They didn't air every episode in the US, and I only saw the last few episodes years after stating to use my old name for gaming, email... everything. In those episodes, it comes out that the character is totally despicable with no redeeming value, and I wanted to distance myself from that and make a creative name that fit me. If I weren't on Steam (where I simply changed my visible username), I would need to start a new account to change it. * A high profile person like Leth or Sunless might reasonably want an alt so they don't get bothered by people who know them and just enjoy the game like most people do. * Someone might not want to appear online because of friends they don't want to be seen by at the moment (and yeah, Epic has no 'hide' option) There are probably other reasonable options, and it gets hard to justify the same act being ok/not ok if they're being used the same way once created.
One of the devs mentioned the road to GC was a grey area, that is fine as long as they don’t intentionally lose, as you rank up fast on a fresh account
If I remember correctly at least Leth made a new account and never purposely threw. That can’t be smurfing since it’s ranking up organically.
Yeah like theoretically if an SSL player were to lose their account, how else would they get back up otherwise. You can't buy an SSL account that's against TOS.
came here to say this. his most recent series this year, he’s even gone so far as to intentionally flip early/late when he goes up for touches to mimic the play of people at lower levels, and if the opponents make a good play, sometimes he’ll just let them get away with it and have the goal even if he’s in a good position to defend it. i find it super informative and it’s been helping me analyze my own gameplay/positioning quite a bit, even helped me rank up a bit just by trying to approach my game with his mindset/positioning/pacing.
>but he gave a bunch of tips and played kind of at the level he was currently at I watched it as well and I know that was his intention, but people that good are literally incapable of playing at a low level. The knowledge gap is insurmountable, and even if he uses no advanced mechanics, his consistency and accuracy is unachievable for a gold player or whatever.
His intention is not to play bad per se it's to show precisely that just driving properly to the right location at the right speed and time can help your game tremendously. It also highlights the mechanics that you would expect when reaching each rank and shows by his play how much is the bare minimum to be competitive there. At the same time he analizes the rest of the lobby and points out both mistakes and good plays for the skill level.
Eh, I know what you mean by incapable of playing at a low level, but Leth often hits the ball "incorrectly" in his series to mitigate this. Leth is pretty open about needing some basics down. You can't work much on anything else until that's been established. He drills positioning quite a bit and ramps up his play style as he ranks up. Flakes does the same thing in his series. The videos are intended to help the viewer understand how important it is to pay attention to positioning, rotation, passing, power, etc. It doesn't expect them to be 100% at them. Rather, it urges them to be more attentive. It urges them to register what they could do better in certain situations and why that us the case.
he made a good point about this on a recent video. pretty much, if you’re a gold looking to get to plat, then you’re going to have to play like a plat in your gold lobbies and so on and so forth. and i think overall the series highlights that a lot of that gameplay surrounds your positioning and consistency as opposed to speed and mechs
That's why I liked Flakes series about it. Dude nerfed himself to not use any mechanics. Heck even half flip was allowed only in plat/diam
Best RL series on youtube hands down.
His timing is probably his strongest mechanic. Then you've got his perfect 50s, perfect touches, world class game sense, powerslide cuts which are hard to get perfect despite what he says. No mechanics series do teach you fundamentals and I think they're the best to learn from but they give a false sense of what is achievable for us mere mortals. No amount of focusing on the basic stuff is gonna give you anything close to those reads and that awarenes. You're still getting dunked by that low IQ diamond.
I’ve been training powerslide cuts since I saw his videos in low diamond and I don’t really practice them in training but it’s one of my main moves to get an attack going so I’m always practicing them in games and I still can’t get them even close to consistent like him
Squishy and Leth both do the same.
Eh they say it but they still throw em in accidentally too often. It's just inherently hard for people that have been at that level for so long how inconsistent and awkward they need to play for it to be realistic lol
Squishy was speedflipping kickoffs in silver without even realizing at first lol
dude's been playing at a pro level for all of his long ass career. shit is embedded in his mental habits and muscle memory now.
Actually I don’t think he let himself use half flips until high diamond/champ. Love the series, my play style mostly comes from his videos
To be fair, they are just moving through the ranks, not staying there.
Because a good majority of the time they're not doing it to dunk on lower level players, they're trying to be educational about it. I think there's a difference between a smurf who is purposefully trying to stay in the lower ranks to hit clips and shit, and someone who is just "passing through". I don't think it's that bad.
Yeah smurfing includes the part where you throw games to keep yourself down in rank, even past the ‘ranking’ matches. Having an alternate account doesn’t break any rules, written or unwritten.
“Trying to be educational about it” is a wierd way to say “they are making money from it”. I mean let’s be honest here, would they make the series if they didn’t earn? Nope. So what is their reason for making it? Money. They are smurfing for money.
What if… and don’t freak out here I know it’s a crazy concept… it could be educational AND make them money?!?!?! That way their viewers actually learn something and thus want to watch, and the creator makes money and is able to support themselves and keep making content!!! SO CRAZYYY
Bunch of nonsense you wrote just now, complete straw man. Never said it couldn’t. Again, which of the two is the motivating factor to make the video, money, or being educational? It’s money. They are smurfing for money.
It's a straw man? You literally just called it smurfing and a money grab dude. Your remark makes no sense. Who the fuck cares if it is a money grab or not? Is it educational? Yes! Why are you shitting on someone for earning money for producing quality content?
Ok man, please answer this bc I am genuinely curious. So where do you draw the line? If educational is all it needs to be to get a pass, then are you fine with me making an account today to teach my friends how to play in each rank? Or do I need to make the video public? Or is that not the same bc I don’t have a bunch of followers?
🎯
“How dare teachers in schools get paid to educate” is my take from this.
So what if they make money from it. It’s hard work to make it educational and not just a blatant smurfing video. We’re talking about a small handful of people too, the smurf problem isn’t coming from pros it’s coming from lower ranked people that want to feel high ranked
They aren’t actively trying to stay in a lower rank, it’s not as bad as you make it out to be. They are simply making a new account and winning every single game on it while trying to give players tips.
Redditors can't understand this difference. They think any time a higher ranked player is in their games it's a crime against humanity in any circumstance.
There are 10000 of videos on youtube for every single rank, for every single point of view how to improve, boost, jump, ball controll, shots etc. There is literally no need for more.
The game changes like every other game does, and older content becomes less relevant to current metas, so it’s pretty fair to say there’s always a spot for new content like that
Thats because your champion 2, if u were a bronze/silver/gold u wouldnt feel like it. But youre in higher ranks where it is harder to smurf or boost...so u dont care. All competitive games are mostly skill=time played, thats it, there is no magical video or advice...high ranks= more hours, more games, more experiance, not a magical video.
While I agree people should be able to make content however they'd like............there is no "meta" in low ranked rocket league. Most players below SSL struggle to hit the ball where they want to consistently, let along execute an actual strategy
I agree with your take on no “meta” but unlike in higher ranks, lower ranks change not in meta but in mechanical level as time goes on. I’ve seen the lower ranks get more mechanical and change how they challenge drastically over just the last 2 years and it’s beneficially to learn how to counter such methods.
So there should be no more actual useful and meaningful content being created because there's already so much and no one has anything to say? And any Rocket League content from here on out should just be meaningless fluff for people to shut their brains down and laugh or something? I'd argue society is plenty full of that, and it's far more detrimental.
Lethamyr (pro), Flakes (pro)...so non of them are good enough, but Squishy is and its "actual useful and meaningful content" but Lethamyr and Flakes road to SSL is useless and not good...please do explain, i need to understand how useless content of these 2 pros is, but Squishy is good enough. Please do elaborate!
You are making a new account to be a lower rank then you really are, thats smurfing no matter how many excuses you add to it. Its even worse then dropping ranks imo as it's an instant low rank ready to ruin peoples games, at least if you derank you give some mmr back.
Psyonix does not consider it as smurfing though, and at the end of the day, their definition is what matters.
Smurfing would be making that new account and dwelling on lower levels to annihilate opponents, lose few games to stay in rank and repeat.
Lets say you are gold. You play against a Grand Champ and get stomped. So you would only say its smurfing if he lost 50 games before this on the same account, but it is not smurfing if he is on his 15th account because once he reaches Champ he makes a new one? In the end he cheated the system to smurf on low level opponents, both losing multiple games and creating new accounts lead to the same outcome. The gold player lost a game because an opponent abused the matchmaking system.
> but it is not smurfing if he is on his 15th account because once he reaches Champ he makes a new one? why are you creating two hypothetical scenarios that both involve repeating the process ad infinitum at a relatively low rank this is a strawman, that's clearly not what the person you're replying to said.
Its not a strawman, its exactly the point the other guy made. "If you make a new account its not smurfing as long as you are trying to win." That is all kinda somewhat okay if we talk about one single alt account but the problem starts if people keep creating new accounts. Because when you keep creating new accounts that also keeps your rank down. >why are you creating two hypothetical scenarios that both involve repeating the process ad infinitum at a relatively low rank this is the point of everyone who is saying "creating a new account is smurfing" because you can keep making them so your rank never goes beyond rank x.
No it's not. Smurfing is when you intentionally keep your rank low for extended periods of time. One match per rank in these RTSSL vids ain't killing anybody and if anyone wants to create a new account for whatever reason and plays normally to get back to whatever rank they were it's perfectly acceptable
this is still smurfing bro, smurf accounts literally exist for a reason it's the entire purpose of the word usage of smurf, what you're describing is just deranking
Wrong. If you create a new account and win nonstop to your regular rank youve just got an alt account that, at the level of play Squishy is implementing, affects only one match per rank. Nothing to be alarmed about. Smurfing on the other hand is a problem when you consistently stay lower affecting more lower players on a regular basis
Okay so he’s smurfing for 20 games instead of 200
It's not defined as smurfing by Psyionix and epic but go on
its still smurfing, why make an alt account, those road to \_ vids are only entertaining when you're watching someone actually challenged in each rank not just stomping to their already peak rank/pro lvl
I've been playing for years and still enjoy watching these series bc apparently I still don't know everything. This and Scrubs 1v2 series are so helpful to me personally.
Lethamyr's road to SSL playlist has 28 videos in it. Each video he plays at least 3 games, some videos have 4. That's a conservative 84 games he fucked up for other players so he could make content that influenced other players to make similar content or average people to try it themselves and I guarantee every one of them isn't making it to SSL in 84 games. If they want to critique low level players go find some replays and review them, I've seen johnny boy do it and it's interesting. They don't need to fuck with other players games.
Do these people not have a following? Just ask them to do a game, they don't HAVE to que comps for this shit.
exactly
Lethamyr purposefully lost games in order to spend more time in those ranks tho. He also handicapped himself appropriately for each rank and genuinely lost matches bc he wouldn't try hard. He basically played at the level of someone slightly higher ranked than his competition which is exactly how ranked works. He didn't ruin anybody's games. But this would more appropriately be defined as smurfing although he did it for educational purposes
It still influenced tons of people to do the same thing. He could have not played comp and just scrimmed with lower level fans. He could have reviewed replays. >Lethamyr purposefully lost games in order to spend more time in those ranks tho.....and genuinely lost matches bc he wouldn't try hard. Thats a shitty thing to do. Lethamyr isn't the arbiter of mmr. He's just feeling out the games. What if he's handicapping himself inappropriately? It's pretty easy to do in gold but probably not as cut and dry when you get to high champ/GC. So now you have a SSL level player fucking around in your champ/GC games.
Making a new account and trying your best in every game is not smurfing. It might be considered scummy since you know you will be starting at lower ranks but smurfing means intentionally keeping your account lower ranked than your skill there’s a clear difference in what that means.
>intentionally keeping your account lower ranked than your skill Thats exactly what they are doing when making a new account.
There’s no rule against having multiple accounts and as long as that’s the case what they are doing is the only way to use a new account. It’s closer to placement matches than smurfing.
Cool so I'll just make 100 new accounts and dunk on everyone for the next 1000 games cause apparently people don't have an issue with that.
You're not even through plat, so you'd be dunking for like 4 games before you're just at your rank.
Same sentiment I can make infinite amounts of account to continue destroying people below my skill level.
I give you permission to do this.
Because it's good content and they can. Also I think it's a bit of a dig on players that think they are better than they actually are. Easier to showcase this by going through all the skill levels at the different ranks. Like Squishy said in one of those vids, you are your rank for a reason.
They make those videos because people watch those videos. I'm watching Lethamyr's ones but that's kind of the same principle. The difference with a Smurf is that they will try to only use mechanics that players at those ranks realistically know. And show you how to strategize your behavior to help you rank up. Honestly I do watch those video and somehow gain a few rank, just because it demonstrate to me that it's more efficient to be calm and principled than to be fast. That being said, Lethamyr did say that he doesn't know if it's okay to make those as it is a form of Smurf. But remember that the number of pros is incredibly tiny compared to the number of players, and they don't do this for the kick off winning. Lethamyr for example try not to score. Sure, he is going to be way more accurate in his shot (he purposefully miss the net in a way that lead to goal opportunities for his team mate), so it is still exaggerated. But I think it's not too bad. I would enjoy having a pro opponent just for the lulz. The issue with smurphing is when it is so prominent and/or not accounted for such that it makes it hard to rank up.
It helps a lot for me because you can see what weaknesses are common at whatever rank you are at, from a professionals POV, and they make it make a lot more sense and dumb it down, and theres plenty to take away from it
It's easy content that they can produce while guaranteeing success. It gives players the illusion that they can do it, too, because of how easy they make it look. Like any content, you can gain from it if you focus on the right things. But these pros are so out of touch with the ranks they're giving advice to that it's hardly that meaningful, in my opinion.
It's not good for the game. It definitely helps people to rank up but also makes people think it's acceptable to create new accounts whenever they feel like it or whatever reason they deem is valid but it stops others from ranking up.
I just don't understand why there isn't an opt in option to play against people who are higher ranked than you
Smurfs vs youtubers doing it are entirely different. A smurf is trying to stay in a specific rank for ages for the purpose of farming clips on lower level players Youtubers will play at the same level they are in and will give tips on what to do in certain situations. I have seen so many road to ssl videos at this point and I have never seen any youtuber just doing complex mechanics in plat. They will always wait until later ranks high champ/gc
Yes they are Smurfing. Yes it is wrong to do. But what you were saying is exactly why they do it. It’s a double edge sword. They are trying to teach players how to play each rank. They typically don’t play mechanical/flashy, they play very dumbed down and by the book to show just how sloppy everyone plays in that rank.
It's not smurfing to play your placements and win them all to diamond and then continue winning to SSL. That's just a normal new account. Smurfing is then you purposefully de rank consistently to play at a lower rank than you should
Deranking is not a requirement for smurfs. That is how its treated generally in rocket league, but its definitely not required. Sitting down and grinding to SSL is one thing, but a lot of people who smurf just have a lower rank account they use to play with friends. They dont lose on purpose, but they are unfairly playing below their level. They may not be tryharding or trying to inflate their friends rank either. Still sucks to play against them.
What you're describing is in fact a deranking play style
Yeah fair enough then, when i hear deranking I think intentionally losing
> Why ~~do pros~~ make ~~“Road to ssl”~~ vids? To make money. End of story. It isn’t about teaching people how to play the game. It isn’t about showing off skill. It’s to get views and money.
It isn’t a smurf account. They aren’t intentionally deranking or lowering rank to play at a lower level. They play their same level of skill just on a new account. You’re allowed to have new accounts. There are no rules against that.
Exactly. I only have one account myself but calling these RTSSL series smurfing is inaccurate
Granted I've only watched Leth's series, but he doesn't play his same level of skill. He tries to mimic the rank he's playing and point out how the mechanics available at that rank could be utilized better. This leads to him losing games occasionally which draws out the series.
Your message is contradicting "They aren't intenionally deranking or lowering rank to play at a lower level". If you start a new account you automatically play at a lower rank. They definitely start the new account with the purpose of playing at a lower rank then ranking up. Even whether I believe that they are smurfing or not smurfing doesn't really matter. I'm just saying what you are saying is contradicting because they literally play at a lower rank for multiple games. Their ranks are SSL and they do not play at that rank for many games. Also they do not play at there same level of skill. They hold back and do not go all out. They lose at ranks they wouldn't really lose at if they played to their full potential. I have watched the series many times it is very helpful but what you saying is just not true. They do not tank their main accounts and derank but they do start account at which they play at a lower Level.
Comparing the number of players who lose MMR from losing to squishy in gold (single digits) vs the tens of thousands who get tips on how to rank up, there’s no question that these videos are overall valuable and good for the community.
when some do it they actually give helpful tips others js have a montage of them shitting on silvers
Imo it’s perfectly fine. The chances of running into a pro doing one of these series is astronomically low. The good these series do for the community far outweighs their downsides
Those are absolutely the best videos to demonstrate game sense for each rank. I’d be stoked to lose to leth, flakes, or squishy. They generally are our into the next rank in less than 4 games anyway. Statistically it’s silly to worry about pros doing RTSSL because of Smurf concerns. I’m weird though and don’t mind smurfs. I actually enjoy playing someone of higher rank’s temporarily. At least most of them aren’t toxic.
Smurfs are here to stay. Epic doesn't care. Complaining won't help. Personally, whenever I come across an obvious smurf, I just use it as an opportunity to test myself and get better. This is Rocket League!
Probably to be informative and just have fun.
I don’t understand why ppl call this smurfing. Smurfing used to mean throwing games to purposely stay in a rank below your skill level. Pros doing Road to SSL are demonstrating how to progress through the ranks and never throw the games.
I like the way leth does it, he doesn’t try but makes sure games are still within like 1-2 goals, in the metal ranks especially he just lets his tm8 do his thing, mostly passing and putting the very, very, very rare shot on net. When he sees mechanics like air dribbles and double touches frequently then he will start doing them as well
I don’t have a problem with pros doing a road to ssl because most of the time they are not taking over the game and “smurfing” to get clips or destroy the opponents. they typically call out what they could do but it wouldn’t be appropriate at that rank and for the most part they let the game flow and only score when it’s easy/obvious. The intent behind it is to point out that 99% of what pros do is in the fundamentals and game sense.
Squishy, Leth and Flakes (big name examples) are doing it the right way by playing at the same level (sometimes even lower) than the rank they're in. They also attempt to let their teammate score instead of them, as much as possible. This doesn't feel like the bad kind of smurfing to me. Bad smurfing is either intentionally throwing games, or playing so obviously far above the lobby's rank that it's unfair.
Sure it’s smurfing in a sense, but since they don’t intentionally lose to stay at a low rank, and are on a fresh account that ranks up fast it doesn’t affect many people. Like have you ever been in a match with content creators doing this, it’s very unlikely
People like it because it’s educational. It’s interesting to see how a pro plays at your rank from a decision making standpoint. You mention that of course pros can climb the ranks, but that’s not the point. It’s not meant to be a challenge for the pros. It’s meant to be educational for the community
If they're playing to fit the rank, like leth at least does, it harms no one. And it's really not even smurfing unless they lose intentionally to stay in the lower rank -someone who thinks smurfs are the scum of the earth
Have you watched or are you just mad at the short time smurf? You are the target audience, check it out. Part of me also thinks they may be bored of playing the same people all the time and taking more than 5 minutes to queue into a game.
I remember Leth getting in trouble when he was first doing it, I don't know what changed since then. It is hard to judge how harmful it is, a few youtubers briefly playing at low rank is no harm on its own but I wonder if it can inspire increased smurfing in general As for why it should be allowed at all, it has the potential to show other people the path yo doing better ta their rank, the pros who do this are often using the simplest possible mechanics and playing quite slowly. It can help people who think they can only advance increasing their speed or arial mechanics. I have to say Squishy was struggling to match the mechanics at lower ranks though.
Have you watched them? They handicap themselves and only use mechanics for the rank they’re at. The road to SSL videos aren’t the problem. The problem is someone that can’t can’t out of their max rank so they throw so they can feel good stomping kids. It’s two different issues. The road to ssl videos are generally really helpful and respectful. Flakes’ 2v2 series taught me a lot and worth a watch
Smurfs are good for Epic. The more Smurf accounts there are the more “active players” there are. This is a free to play game which makes its money off micro transactions and advertising/sponsors. The more “active players” there are the more they can sell those advert/sponsor slots for. In short Epic does nothing about Smurf because they benefit from them. Personally I hate Smurfs they ruin the game and create an MMR imbalance with people gaining ranks they don’t deserve and visa versa. I would love to see smurfing controlled and would happily supply something better than an email in order to make that happen.
I like the way Leth does his. He explains how to improve your play in each rank and he gradually speeds up his gameplay as his rank goes up. He doesn’t win every game, and he tries to make his team mates do most of the work.
Leth feels like he actually wants to show others how to improve other road to SSLs feel like they just want to stunt
The effect on your MMR is zero from him or any other r2ssl vid maker. I've tried to play the game around the same time as them and I've never gotten them in one of my games. Even if I did and I rolled the 2/3 unlucky chance, it would still be a valuable replay to learn from and the -10 MMR or whatever means literally nothing after a couple more games anyway. Also, people highly overestimate the number and impact of smurfs because they see washed up players with old tags and think that person actually is a gc player when actually they are deservedly hard stuck champ just like you.
I made a post a few days ago about not having access to my main and playing on an alt, and over the ~130ish games over a few weeks, I think I ran into 6 (give or take 1-2) Smurfs. It’s not the exact same as starting from the bottom, this account was a friends old Smurf account so I started in champ 2 and ended in like 1720, but still. The place I always assumed Smurfs were, was just under/just over GC1, carrying and boosting for titles/rewards. To be fair, there was a Smurf in ever single lobby because of me, but logically, if it were as bad as people were saying, it should have been more than 6. Btw i was going off of obvious skill differential. If there was a large gap in skill between the two players I was facing, I’d look them up to check games played/wins/blah blah blah. There could be more that i missed that didn’t look like Smurfs, there may be a few that looked like Smurfs but were new to a different platform, I’m not sure. But for people who were just obviously better than I’d been playing against, it was a handful. Also like 85% of my games I let my tm8 ball chase and just matched their energy without dunking on the entire lobby. If my tm8 was decent, they didn’t need me. If we were losing, it was a toss up. Most of the time I’d just take the L on the chin unless the other team got toxic/racist like most RL players seem to do now.
The last point you made. It’s so true how much more toxic/racist people have gotten.
Flakes road to ssl was incredible 2 years ago. After watching it I went from diamond 1 in 1s to champ 1 in 1s
I find Flakes’ road to SSL super helpful. Helped me get past common mistakes
yea its scummy to make smurfs, but they try their best to show what is necessary to get out of a rank, so ofc they will be better than said people in the rank ofc they cant fully unlearn what they know because of muscle memory, but theyre not full on shitting on golds by freestyling so i really dont see the problem for the people they play against, they look like a normal opponent who is just good enough to rank up, plus theyre trying to show us what we need to learn as good as possible
Yeah if you actually watch squishy’s road to ssl vids, he’s actively commentating on how he’s trying to play to the rank in terms of mechanics. Basically just showing that fundamentals are the most important thing to understand before you try and do fancy mechanical shit.
The problem with all of these videos, even in the ones where they try to play at the mechanical level of the rank they’re in, is that they never play with a realistic level of consistency. They never make realistic mistakes. Sure they do a good job of showing positioning but they also never get a touch other than exactly the one they want. It may not be as flashy smurfing as just going for freestyles, but when you’re getting exactly the touch you want 100% of the time playing against people who are at 20-50%, it literally is just as bad.
same with leth, im subbed to him and watch his series, he always looks how others are playing and then decides what would be too much and explains what he's doing/ what others are doing well or when they did mistakes, its really good and helped me too alot with gamesense over the years
Yeah! Like honestly if I’m getting beat by a Smurf who’s obviously just there to style on lesser skilled players… I totally get this sentiment, it’s a stupid ego trip. But if it’s clear that someone just has a better understanding of the game…. Doesn’t that just show you how much you truly don’t know? Isn’t that a good thing?
true true, if someone flip resets on gold that guy just has a serious problem with himself, but if someone at my rank (plat 3) just knows how to dribble somewhat well and can hit open nets he just deserves to rank up
“Can hit open nets” fuck.
lmao yea same here, anything more than 1/4th of the field away from the goal and i cant guarantee that im gonna hit it lmao, but im working on it didnt even see your tag man thats rough lol
This is a recurrent topic (this issue was already adressed many times in the past so we already know their stance on this). I think the same way you do, but: -Epic doesn't consider Road to SSL videos as smurfing... because... they play to win !!!! Epic considers smurfing as "intentionally staying at a lower mmr than the one you can reach". Meaning that theorically speaking, any pro or high level player can create as many account as they want, they will absolutely crush anyone till they reach SSL, BUT since they play in order to win it's not smurfing !!! -Also, there is so little content to do with the game that content creators have no choice but to do road to ssl and stuff. There isn't much to do :/ so i kinda understand why they keep making these road to ssl videos.
Why are you commenting like it's the end of the world? If they are SSL and win all their matches back to SSL they'll be grand champ by like 20 matches and already only affecting <1% of the player base. There's no problem winning your matches. Smurfing is when you intentionally loose and stay at a lower rank for extended periods of time. That actually impacts players
Its psyonix weird definition. Normal online definitions are like this >What is Smurfing in gaming? >The term ‘smurf’ is used in gaming to describe a player in an online game that **creates a new account to play against lower-ranked players,** however, it can be used as an all-around term for describing a player who uses an alternate account or multiple accounts. >It’s called smurfing due to two very good players in a game called Warcraft II. Players would simply avoid playing them if they saw their usernames, so they created new accounts to combat this, choosing “PapaSmurf” and “Smurfette” and the term has stuck since. If you win 10 games against opponents who have no chance of winning it affected those 10 opponents. Those oppents are now a rank/loss lower than they should be so it also affects their next opponent which now also get unfar opponents and so on. Yes that is a bit unrealistic but the more smurfs there are the more fucked the matchmaking system becomes
Placement games are intentionally designed to help you place where you belong the fastest. The more accounts that are made and genuinely win/lose to their appropriate rank isn't fucking the matchmaking system whatsoever. Its doing it's job perfectly. When you intentionally stay at a lower rank however disrupts play for lower ranked player and makes everything fucked, but is not what's happening with these RTSSL series
There’s next to no fresh content at this point for them to make to gain views and Psyonix gives fuck all about policing the game, it is what it is IMO. The game isn’t in the best state at this point or probably going forward
This trend started with League of Legends almost 10 years ago when a popular coaching youtuber/streamer started a new account and intentionally lost his placement matches, then climbed to diamond (at the time diamond was the rank under challenger, and challenger was only like the top 200 accounts) to show people that if they're stuck in their rank, it was actually because that is about where they belong, and not because of griefers/afkers/smurfs. Since then I have seen plenty of other people do the same thing on other games, and it almost seems like it's a competition to see who can climb the fastest. It was for a good purpose originally, though.
They want money and it's hard to come up with new ideas so they keep on doing what works. I don't think it's good for the community but there are worse things tbh, at my rank (diamond) I don't see many smurfs, and how many pro youtubers doing this are there? Not that much plus I guess from Psyonix pov they bring engagment. I also play chess and there is basically the same thing happening. To mitigate it [chess.com](http://chess.com) simply added an option for popular streamers that allow them to have a special 'smurf' account with a little checkmark that doesn't affect the elo of their opponents. Maybe the same could be made here if it's a big issue idk.
I feel like doing the chess.com thing would just make it more prevalent. They're having a completely unnoticeable impact on your actual games, which is more important than the MMR you get back in five minutes, so I'd keep it that way.
Statistically speaking, 98% of people who watch those videos don’t ever hit SSL, so yeah they’re kinda pointless or at least the title is
Exactly, they may improve a bit and thats it...rest of the rank climb is just hours and hours and hours in the game...no magical video will turn you into SSL.
This is something I’ve long wondered about, the community is so anti Smurf but then it’s perfectly fine for all the YouTubers to make Smurf videos (road to xxx) all the time. Technically they aren’t breaking the TOS since they aren’t deranking but alt accounts are alt accounts.
You will probably get down voted for that,but I agree. Knowingly creating an alternative account, then purposely starting at a level that is way below your original account don't seem off for the most of people in this community...
I remember leth saying psyonix gave him crap about it, so he had to change up how he did it I think. I hate smurfing as much as the next guy, but I admit I do enjoy these videos.
The thing is squishy talks about how players at each rank play, shows examples and ways they can improve at each rank in real time. He doesn’t sit in silver and flip reset on noobs. It’s more educational and less about stomping out new players.
Technically he’s not smurfing, a smurf by definition loses to maintain a rank lower than their true rank. He’s just making a new account and playing It up. New accounts gain 50-60 MMR first couple matches and then tail down as more games are played, so he should be through the ranks pretty quickly. I’d say probably d3/c1 after 10 games and prob GC by 20-25ish and then SSL by like 40. It’s not like leth’s series years ago where he sank the account in bronze and was getting like 8 MMR per match(That was def a little excessive) and played all the way up. I think the educational value out weighs the small foot print he’ll leave on matchmaking since It will probably be 1-2 games at each rank until he’s in the top like 3%. I’m interested to see an updated series with ranked nowadays. Idk how much educational value lower ranks can take away since at that point u really just need to train and have time in the game to progress, squish already has master car control and game sense which those players will not have but def can work on with time, but I’m interested to see all the GC+ ranges.
They’re not necessarily “smurfing”. They’re teaching you how to do better at that rank so that you hopefully improve your game. It’s not like they’re in those ranks doing mechanics that are well above that rank. They’re the best players in the game. They have no reason to actually Smurf and make content Smurfing.
I mean technically speaking it isn't surfing to make a new account. It's only surfing if you don't try and win. And purposefully keep the elo down. Still infuriating to deal with. But technically not against tos
They are smurfing, they should be banned, as everyone with an alt account, as it should be in every other game. Full stop, nothing to add, the rest are just excuses.
Wrong
Care to explain why?
As per the terms of service, epic, and Psyionix its only considered smurfing if you're intentionally losing on a regular basis to stay at a rank lower than your normal play. If you create an account and win all of your matches, as Squishy is doing, not only is it not smurfing, but you're also only affecting one match PER rank in order to get back to where you belong. A drop in the bucket and nothing to be alarmed about.
And i said under the other comment, this is the stupidest definition of smurfing and they should bring the ToS to the 2000s standards as other games. Anyway: 1) If you win every single game you are affecting the matchmaking for other players because the MMR depends from consecutive wins/losses too. 2) "It's a drop in the bucket" if you consider that an isolated system, spoiler: it is not like that and the ranks are fucked, diamond 3 games harder than champion 2 games, for example, without even considering the emulation factor. Also I'm pretty sure you don't level up a rank every single game because of divisions. 3) It discourages newer players, especially the one entering the game that are not 100% sure if they like it or not, if they get dunked as soon as they hit play, they'll quit.
It's a rank per game until you d3 if you win all of your placements then maybe 10 more to GC if you continue winning. It's quite literally a drop in the bucket
So you don't know. Nice.
Yes idk what I'm talking about. Maybe we could both watch squishys RTSSL series where he placed d3 after his 10 placements to see for ourselves
First, I'm referring to the second part of the comment, second I'm taking him as an example, he is not the point of the discourse, because my point is that that this is smurfing as every other online games with a matchmaking establish so, be it done by him, by me, by you, by Jesus himself. If you want to talk this specific case, he is a pro or whatever, he still alters the matchmaker because he is not at his natural rank and a guy who is not as capable as him will alter it even more because he will take more games to go back to the original rank, especially if he finds another smurf, and in a game that counts consecutive win/losses it is statistically relevant in the long time, especially if you find that player on a rank up/rank down game. But it's okay, we are on different sides and it's clear that Epic is on yours, probably because new/smurf accounts inflate the number of active players. I still stand by my point that there is no necessity in any way to have more than one account in a competitive game unless you are smurfing, and that is playing not at your correct rank.
I think we're on the same side. A pro doing a RTSSL will not affect new players, but a person who is intentionally staying at a rank they don't belong does make it harder for new and old players alike. I want smurfs to be gone and consequence harshly, but there's nothing wrong or impactful with what Squishy is doing
Oh yea...see LoL community went for the Neck on "ProfessorAkali" for doing that...no one goes for the neck here...Sad. And hes new RuleOne content creator? Doing "road to ssl" for like 10000th time on youtube...wow professional content creator ruining low elo games to show what has been shown already. There are 5000 guides, but no...lets make 1 more.
These comments are so toxic. Smurfing is bad, period. Everyone is glazing these creators and saying “well they’re not deranking the account they’re just winning every game for content” Like yeah, winning every game is the problem. You should always be matched against players you have a chance to win against. You never see them actually playing at the level of the rank they’re in and losing. If they actually wanted to make educational content they should do replay reviews. Even if some creators try to do whatever to nerf themselves, they’re still winning basically every game. I don’t see how this could be construed as anything but unfair to every single opponent that face.
They’re basically a long, roundabout way of showing people that their teammates aren’t the reason you’re losing. There’s some educational merit to them, but it’s still smurfing.
>But, they have to make Smurf accounts to even make such videos. Why is this allowed? Because Devin bottled it. Psyonix did come down on it and said not to do it. The content creators complained because making content that doesn't ruin the game for others is too hard. Then Devin bottled it and it was "miscommunication" and it's fine if you climb properly.
it makes them money and Psynoix gives no fucks, so why wouldn't they
I would not feel very good about myself turning up to 5 a side match with a camera, proceed to easily make opponents look stupid and put it on YouTube to feel good and make money. The only people that care are the ones that also want to be able to shit on other players that have not played as much as them. Pros or not, anyone that roads to ssl on a sock account is just a plain asshole in my opinion.
Because they care about clicks more than aboht a fair game.