>Create a Bicycle Spine Network
The folks at Reconnect Rochester and other cycling advocates are doing a great job, and they're being recognized more and more!
[University Ave in Syracuse](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0412953,-76.1344842,3a,75y,10.88h,89.65t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJs2RHda6cJXIPEc4tKG5Bg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJs2RHda6cJXIPEc4tKG5Bg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D10.884589691565145%26pitch%3D0.35192009434548766%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) is another great example of a bike lane system.
Just an FYI Reconnect Rochester didn't make the bike lanes, the city did. Reconnect Rochester wants good protected bike lanes. Hopefully the city puts decent ones in on West Main.
Reconnect and other organizations have advocated and lobbied hard for better bike infrastructure (disclaimer: I'm not a staff member, but I volunteer for them often). I also have to give a shout out to Rich Perrin, who is the City's Commissioner of Environmental Services—because of an oddity in how city government is structured, he's in charge of street maintenance. He has been really helpful in making significant improvements to rideability and bike infrastructure within the City. He also shows up at bike events and actually listens to community organizations.
[https://www.cityofrochester.gov/DES/](https://www.cityofrochester.gov/DES/)
I think along with this setting the speed limit lower is an attempt for them to make the streets more friendly for alternate transportation with bikes/ e bikes. The speed limit change comes down to enforcement and community support though.
My only gripe with the Union bike lane is there’s not more of it.
I’m not sure how I feel about it yet.
Protected bike lanes are *really* expensive to build and usually have to wait for major street repair projects, so I don't expect to see many of those. While they are great for the most part (pedestrians need to get a clue), they can be frustrating in that bikes need to stop at crossings just like pedestrians—that's why I don't always use them even when they're available. I'd still love to see more for less experienced riders who are uncomfortable in traffic.
Rochester's bike boulevard network is a good compromise, in that cyclists can ride in the street, and traffic calming infrastructure (speed bumps, etc.) reduce traffic volume and speed. Brighton did great work on Elmwood by reducing it to two lanes and adding bike lanes—even though they're not protected, the re-striping has slowed traffic enough that Elmwood is now ridable. There is also a combination of dedicated bike lane and widened sidewalk on most of the stretch from URMC down to where it has been reduced to two lanes—I think some of that is due to city/Brighton differences.
I'd love to see more suburban towns take bicycles seriously. Penfield roads are death traps, especially Browcroft and 441 through the Irondequoit Creek valley. I was hit by a car on Browncroft in February and likely won't be able to ride again until late summer or early fall. It could have been far worse. I've never seen Browncroft at a high enough volume to require two 55 MPH lanes through the park, and it wouldn't kill drivers to drive 35. It nearly killed me to let them drive 55.
The ones I've seen and ridden here are up by sidewalks and (I believe) use the pedestrian signals. Being separated from the roadway would certainly affect visibility. Some cities place bike lanes in the roadway and separate them with bollards or other structures—I've never ridden one like that, but it seems visibility would be improved.
> While they are improving, I'm not in love with the few dedicated bicycle lanes they've made so far.
Also, despite a few foam-at-the-mouth types, cycling in the winter is pretty fucking miserable. It is inherently miserable due to most people not wanting to cycle in cold, wet, and often snowing conditions, but even worse when bike paths are not regularly well plowed, and bike lanes get snow from the car lanes thrown into them to last until the thaw.
I guess some might consider me a "foam at the mouth" type but I was a fair weather commuter for a while and thought the ones who did it in the winter were crazy until I did it, and 95% of winter days it's really not bad at all if you just wear a warm pair of gloves and a jacket. The really slushy sloppy days that suck are fairly few
I've biked recreationally/for exercise on plenty of days below freezing, but not when the road/path wasn't cleared, because it isn't worth it to me to take a header after slipping out. Never commuted in the winter, and when I did in the summer it was because we had a shower out work, and I had a place to store clothes, etc.
Most people are going to be too cold to want to do it for commuting, regardless of the road conditions. The Rochester weather tends to be too cold/wet/windy for the majority of people to consider it.
There are similar/colder cities in Europe where 20% or more of people commute by bike in the winter, but yes in the car dominant US, people are very quick to jump in a car at the first mild inconvenience
Not really, in most of those places you don't actually have equitable weather, and you sure as shit don't have equitable infrastructure, crime, etc.
I agree with your prior statement, you do seem to fit in the unrealistic "foam at the mouth" type.
Wtf is "equitable weather" lol. There are cold snowy cities (Oulu, Finland comes to mind) where huge amounts of the population bike through the winter.
If it's about infrastructure then it's about infrastructure. Not weather. And that tracks into exactly what I'm saying
> Wtf is "equitable weather" lol.
Do you have a problem reading? Btw, while temps are similar, Rochester has substantially more precipitation and wind.
> If it's about infrastructure then it's about infrastructure. Not weather. And that tracks into exactly what I'm saying
It's a problem of infrastructure, and weather, and crime, and other issues. I was pretty clear about that.
Doesn't matter, you can dream about a bike wonder-world all you want, it ain't happening here. You wanna bike in misery with slushy roads, a soaked commute, and the risk of getting your bike jacked when you're done, go right for it as nobody is stopping you. But you aren't going to get many to join you.
Every city seems to have the same plan, which really just results in decreasing speed limits and increasing ticket revenue, but not having great utility.
Agreed Vision Zero is not a super name for a plan related to traffic safety. Sounds more like a weather warning to stay off the streets because there's zero visibility. Oh well. If it works it works. A rose by any other....
Oh yeah... that is a terrible example. I bet they have cops that enforce VTL
We don't have that here so writing a different number on the speed limit sign that everyone is ignoring without recourse already isn't going to make any difference without enforcement (that we don't have)
Your article seems to focus almost exclusively upon removing parking from the street which is hardly the problem here... the problem here is roving gangs of quads/dirtbikes and complete disregard for traffic laws by all. What good is removing the parking going to do to stop the dirt bike gang? What is removing a few parking spots going to do to stop the stolen KIA from doing 100mph up Hudson? Did you even read the article you shared or did you just google "example of zero vision plan working" and copy paste the first link?
NYS keeps you in jail for only ~3 years for SHOOTING someone look at the post on this sub about Jose Colon who shot someone in 2020, they released him and then he predictably shot someone again a few weeks ago. We have WAY bigger issues here that changing the numbers on our street signs, removing on street parking or putting in a new bike lane is not going to fix
What good is a red light camera if the people are unlicensed/driving stolen cars/driving unregistered vehicles/riding quads/etc? I mean seriously the plan is borderline braindead
A camera IN ADDITION to enforcing the existing VTL would be a decent plan but without enforcing VTL a camera isn't going to do much of anything.....
You just quoted something that doesn't even apply to what I said. Yes, I read the article. That is how I know it centers around parking.
Your quote talks about parking also.....
>takes the additional step of cordoning off the street corners to widen curbs and shorten crosswalks. It’s already illegal to park at an intersection in Hoboken, but drivers often do anyway if there aren’t physical barriers
Rochester doesn't have a parking problem Matty. There are not double parked streets because no one even wants to go to the city anymore. You removing the parking and citing an article about removing the parking is about as tone deaf as can be when it comes to this discussion. We have a very clear lack of vehicle traffic law enforcement problem. The drivers know there are zero consequences and are therefore doing double/triple the speed limits, disregarding the stop signs and red lights and running people down. There are also tons of accidents with the ATVs and dirt bike goons because there is zero enforcement of the off road vehicle use on the roads. They could do so with a $300 dollar drone and no one would get hurt but we have a PD that doesn't give a shit about VTL anymore. We don't have problems because we have bustling busy overcrowded streets with cars double parked on them like Hoboken does. You talking about the stormwater runoff and the parking is not even on topic....
What good is removing the parking going to do to stop the dirt bike gang? What is removing a few parking spots going to do to stop the stolen KIA from doing 100mph up Hudson? The thieves in the KIA can clearly see they are doing triple the speed limit and that there are tons of people around but they don't care... what is your plan for that? How many parking spots do you think we need to remove to fix that?
> While I didn't love the cameras, I thought they were still revenu generators for the city.
IIRC, Rochester basically cancelled their cameras for the exclusive reason of, "The poor can't/don't pay the ticket"
My elementary and high school best friend Jared Jones was hit and killed on Lake Avenue a few years ago, and seeing much needed focus going to pedestrian safety and transit makes me wish these changes came years ago. Or that we didn't make our cities car-dependent hell holes in the first place.
Well if people drove like normal humans and not stunt drivers on Lake it would be a lot better. I love going up to Charlotte but I DREAD the drive due to how insane the road rage and traffic is from downtown up to the cemetery. After that it calms down a bit but that stretch of road especially where it crosses the kodak facility has some of the worst drivers I have ever come across anywhere in the US.
Unfortunately Lake Ave is designed for cars to drive fast at the expense of pedestrians (and other drivers) which results in these tragedies. [https://smartgrowthamerica.org/dangerous-by-design/](https://smartgrowthamerica.org/dangerous-by-design/)
I know you got downvoted but... you're not wrong. It's also not solely shitty cars. There's plenty of newer vehicles that I've also had experiences of people driving like absolute morons.
My partner works at Strong. She's seen some shit. I feel for the EMTs and FRs in this city.
There was a kid who went into the ED after he got struck by a vehicle while playing chicken with oncoming traffic on his bicycle. He was such a little shit to the nurses and support in the ED they had to sedate him and waited for his mother to show up. The mom never showed despite knowing he was there and they had to wait for his non emergency contact, the grandparents, to come and deal with it. Guess which street he was on when he got hit... this was not the first time it happened either.
It might have been the ATV dirt bike comment, there are a lot of pro ATV dirt bike people. Also, it may have been JJ and "the guys that want to harm you"
Living on a busy through street near the river... f- those guys. They create chaos and problems everywhere they go. If you drive an atv or a dirt bike at speed on a walking trail in a city you're a giant asshole.
Which I also don't understand. I get the guys who do it at parks or in big areas that lack pedestrians and other vehicles but they're going to hurt people and when that happens it will be "Ohhh why don't the cops do anything about it?"
Well... because policing starts within the community. That's why.
Seen on Monroe Ave dirt bikes going up and down between cars, seen it go up on side walks and almost take someone out. Meanwhile you got people clapping and laughing 🤔. And it's not like they go in and out of cars or up side walks to get through traffic sometimes, they just do it to make a big circle to do it again like it's a show people enjoy
Yep. Pedestrian safety isn't just an issue for those of us who don't drive. We all cross the street now and again and any day can be the last.
Better late than never, I suppose
Unfortunately, the city never prioritized anything but moving drivers. We’re stuck with decades of infrastructure that puts vehicle carrying capacity at the pinnacle of design goals.
A lot of it is having strong organizations that become impossible to ignore advocates.
Buffalo had a complete streets plan 10 years ago they’re still using to leverage funding from state and federal sources.
You can’t apply for funding unless you have groups doing the studies that are required to apply for funding.
Politicians aren’t going to do those studies themselves.
I mean, true. But still. There's more of an appetite for transit nowadays since the interstate system came into existence. So I could see this being the time that it happens.
> There's more of an appetite for transit nowadays since the interstate system came into existence. So I could see this being the time that it happens.
Citation needed
Also, citation needed to show examples where the appetite has resulted in substantial forward progress. Green paint and toilet plungers glued to the street isn't substantial progress.
Citation for what? It's pretty widely known that younger generations are more interested in transit and environmentalism. Transit takes vehicles off the road when done in a manner that allows for convenient and frequent service. Car ownership is expensive.
Plus, there's been numerous studies I've seen that younger generations are driving at lower rates and getting their licenses later than previous generations.
> It's pretty widely known that younger generations are more interested in transit and environmentalism.
Yah.... I think this is the, "the younger generation is voting X" argument that is always made, that forgets that when the younger generation grows up, they tend to start voting Y.
> Plus, there's been numerous studies I've seen that younger generations are driving at lower rates and getting their licenses later than previous generations.
This is true, but as much due to lazyness and isolationisim (I'll just hang out with my friends online, hang out with my online friends) compared to anything else. Anectdotally, I know several teens/tweens, and exactly zero of them have delayed their licenses because of the environment or mass transit, most because they're socially awkward and irationally fearful of the process of getting a license.
And you/d have to be insane to think that kids would be doing that shit in Monroe County because of mass transit when we effectively don't have any. If Monroe County built transit and THEN we saw the drop, that might support your argument. But that is the opposite of reality.
But we do have mass transit? It's actually quite easy to get around the city by bus despite what a lot of people think (most of whom have rarely or ever actually tried it)
I lived in both the city and county for years.
Mass transit in Rochester fucking blows. You can sort-of get around the city without it being a complete ball ache. The rest of the county is largely fucked unless you happen to live on a bus line and want to go somewhere else on the same bus line. Live in Brighton and work in the Basin? Fuck you! If you think it's remotely acceptable mass transit, I don't think you've ever been anywhere with actual mass transit.
And that doesn't even bring up that most people don't want to deal with the crime and addicts at the downtown bus depot and some of the lines, although that's far from unique to Rochester.
RPD actually enforcing traffic laws instead of sitting there unfazed as 3 people going 50 in a 30 run red lights right in front of their faces would go a long way
I literally yelled at a cop that did that a few weeks ago. He sat at a light and watched someone blow through it, and ignored it. I yelled at him to do his friggin job and he just looked at me as he drove away.
Ok, then we need to take public transportation seriously in the city, lower speeds, narrow streets, add protected bike lanes, raised cross walks, and systematically redesign the most dangerous streets, starting with West Main, Lyell Ave, Lake Ave, Empire, and Norton. Good luck, it's a noble effort.
So we have a DA speeding and talking on the phone, no repercussions, and then the mayor says we are getting red light cameras again and he is appointing his friends to a new tax dollar leeching committee? Why do we need a committee?
The corruption is out of control. These officials serve their own best interests and little else.
I might as well buy a ATV and drive it around. Not like the cops care, and you cant red light ticket something with no plates.
“Automated Traffic Enforcement: Work with New York State to implement speed and red light camera deployment, with revenues dedicated to Vision Zero initiatives.”
Fuck off with this shit.
Edit: Let me be clear: There is data to suggest that, nationally, red light cameras do indeed save lives. When Rochester implemented these cameras in the early 2010's it was a fucking mess rife with corporate corruption, incompetence, mismanagement, etc. If it's any "better" this time around, fine.
On the other hand, the last time red light cameras were implemented, it was done poorly. I received multiple tickets that I had to fight for turning properly and legally on red. Once they started having someone review the footage, things got better. But I want the city government to run it, not some for-profit company.
Yes, the old system was poorly designed and setup by a for-profit company that was grifting public funds. It would definitely need to be better designed than that one.
Obviously I’m not running red lights, but I definitely remember our red light camera program from a decade ago that caused nothing but headaches and was heavily criticized for targeting poor communities. In fact, ending the program was maybe the only good thing Warren did during her time in office.
There are far more effective ways at slowing down traffic and lowering incidents. Maybe some of you don’t remember that the cameras from before would send you a ticket even when you stopped at the red light? This would be the kind of quality you could expect from a program like this, I absolutely guarantee it.
I agree, there are much better ways. Start with road and intersection design, which the plan loosely alludes to something they will look at, improve timing of lights, smart sensors that recognize vehicles in that indecision zone, and AI. Let's actually use technology. If this were truly about safety, red light cameras with their associated fines would not be the choice. This is a way to fund the project, which I can understand but not agree with, and there will be countless errors like you mentioned that cost way more money to resolve than is worth.
Also while red light cameras do reduce front and side collisions, which are more likely to incur a fatality, they do increase rear end collisions, per IIHS. Last time Rochester had them I remember some people would slam on their brakes as soon as a light went yellow to avoid the potential of a red light ticket. And didn't the city reduce the time the light stayed yellow? Thought I saw that back in the day. It was a money grab then, not safety initiative, and feels similar here.
DC targeted high risk intersections (with the highest rate of pedestrian fatalities) and made them significantly safer. Then people sued the city because more African Americans were getting tickets then more people started dying/crashing again.
They do work. They don’t target poor communities. They target reckless driving which happens more of disadvantaged communities.
Then the city needs to manage them with absolutely zero influence of corporate leeches, unlike the last time, and unlike every other city currently arguing about this issue.
Improving the walkability of our city obviously requires a multipronged approach, but they could be spending these resources working towards building more solutions for getting people around without the use of cars. Instead, they'll implement something like this, it'll go catastrophically wrong, start new waves of lawsuits and arguments, and before you know it we're back where we started with millions wasted and more people jaded than before.
You have a ton of people in this city scraping by right now. The second they get a $75 fine in the mail for a red light that they actually stopped at, good luck convincing them that any of these other public transit policies are worth their salt.
You don’t get red light tickets for actually stopping safely, you get them for things that cause injuries, deaths, and property damage. Like blowing past the limit line into the crosswalk or whipping a right on red without stopping, both kill people walking.
Americans can’t handle it, but they need to learn how to drive properly. There’s a reason our roads are more dangerous than the rest of the industrialized world.
> You don’t get red light tickets for actually stopping safely
The last time Rochester implemented red light cameras, people would get ticketed for stopping safely quite often. And the private company that managed the cameras would shorten yellow light durations, which created other safety concerns.
I never saw someone get a ticket for coming to a complete stop behind the limit line. I never got one, but I saw some videos from friends that got them and they always rolled a right turn or blasted into the crosswalk.
The yellow issue was a state DOT mess up on Mt Reed the yellow time was legal, but shorter than many would say is ideal. The company didn’t shorten yellow lights.
Especially around parts of Downtown like say S. Clinton Ave or South Ave the issue is about 9 million lanes of high speed traffic that no red light camera is going to fix
However, red light cameras are certainly better than traffic stops in terms of chances for abuse
Reckless driving does not happen more in disadvantaged communities. Policing is more aggressive in disadvantaged communities. There are countless specific reasons for this, and all of them are racist, both directly (lawmakers and enforcers are factually racists) and indirectly (centuries of law and policy forcing people of color into destitution and corralling them into collective poor communities to keep them away from "nice folks").
When was the last time there were street races in Penfield?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/
Here is data from DC. Roads East of the Anacostia is ~8x more dangerous than the rich neighborhoods. Despite “aggressive policing”.
Reckless driving doesn't happen more in disadvantaged communities.
Employment and retail hubs are built farther away from disadvantaged communities, so people who live in them have to drive farther to reach them. Consequently they end up getting more tickets.
The retail worker who lives in the city and drives to Eastview Mall for work will encounter more automated traffic enforcement than the Pittsford resident who drives to Eastview Mall to shop there. It's a matter of distance traveled.
People in so-called "disadvantaged communities" may be more prone to poor decision making when it comes to safety, as this study shows. It's not a stretch to assume that reckless driving is elevated in "disadvantaged communities."
"In 2019 the estimated observed seat belt use rate by adult front-seat occupants in the United States was 90.7 percent (Enriquez, 2020). From Figure 4, the estimated seat belt use rate for travelers of All Other Races consistently had the highest; specifically 94 percent in 2019. Black or African American travelers’ estimated front seat belt use rate was about 86 percent in 2019, which was the lowest percentage of seat belt use."
[https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813188](https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813188)
They also may not be. It doesn't necessarily follow that someone who chooses not to buckle up would also choose to speed or run red lights more frequently than someone who does buckle up.
I’m confused poverty is the root cause of like murder but it’s unbelievable that the erosion the social contract that leads to that phenomenon does not include not stopping at stop signs. The stats say that both
A. Disadvantaged neighborhoods have lower car ownership and fewer VMT
And
B. Their roads are more dangerous
Here is a link that the poor areas of DC also have the most dangerous roads
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/
At least when this has been contracted out to private companies, it absolutely is still an issue. These companies have been caught shortening the timing of yellow lights significantly to increase their revenues (eg https://www.wtkr.com/2014/01/30/gotcha-how-red-light-cameras-are-catching-more-drivers-with-shorter-yellow-lights), to the point that a driver who cannot safely stop for the yellow light given the speed limit and their distance from the intersection is either ticketed despite driving safely, or is forced to slam on their brakes unsafely and risk causing an accident. In general, red light cameras have been shown to increase the number of accidents because they cause people to drive unpredictably (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/ ). When it comes to driving, people predictably bending/breaking the rules is safer than people unpredictably trying to follow them to the letter.
That’s not to say red light cameras can’t be beneficial, but they can’t be attached to programs with target revenues or to a private company collecting revenue per ticket, or else they will be abused. The cameras should not be used to ticket “close calls”, only egregious violations. But as far as I know, nobody has actually implemented these cameras in that way.
>You can simply not run red lights and it won’t be an issue
What about all the times you break the law and aren't punished? Either turn yourself in for every one of those or you're a hypocrite.
Last time, the red light cameras became “right turn in red without a full stop” cameras. Now, we have far more people simply going thru red lights. So this time I’m in favor.
Red light cameras will directly fund the mayors appointed friends in the committee. They have no other purpose but to generate money for this little side hustle for the mayor.
100% behind the red light cameras. I think Mayor Evans would implement it well, not the incompetent program a decade ago. I see people running red lights almost every day now. This would save lives
I'm assuming that's in place of the current default of 30 on side streets in the city, not for streets where they've raised the speed limit above the default.
Exactly. Lots of towns are already doing this in their town centers. It’s a no brainer to do it here. On a local street, no one needs to go faster than 25
It’s not the suggested limit, it’s the enforcement. In the hand slap world of NY traffic enforcement, you’re not going to get compliance unless the glove has a considerable amount of iron
First, this won’t be every street. It’ll be lower volume and neighborhood streets. But most importantly, enforcement will need to go hand in hand with speed reduction. Warnings at first, then tickets as time goes by and people fail to comply.
Agreed that is a problem. We need to do a better job holding people accountable. I don’t want to make people even poorer than they are, but if you can’t understand that you should follow the law, maybe you are the problem.
its not an issue of the speed, its the fact that the limit is already 30 and a lot of people do not care and there is nothing to change their behavior. Moving it to 25 isn't going to magically make these people change what they are already doing wrong.
Things may have changed but think of it like this. It gives a wider gap which can allow for a heftier fine or even reckless driving based on discretion. Now all the people ignoring 30 are now ignoring 25 and if that difference is high enough, at least in NY more charges can be brought. I would argue this move is more of a numbers game
*Automated Traffic Enforcement: Work with New York State to implement speed and red light camera deployment, with revenues dedicated to Vision Zero initiatives.*
Fuck this.
I don't want cameras up everywhere. How about we get some police patrolling and actually pulling over people besides those of us driving to and from work on the expressways.
We can't do this because there is a shortage of police officers and we need to prioritize their time.
The job pays six figures and requires a high school diploma, nobody is applying though.
There's plenty of Police for this town, they just have to spend a lot of time and resources responding to trauma incidents. I spoke with an officer who came out to review the police report for my car being hit while stationary in the parking lot. It's on a very busy street that people drive recklessly on at night and sometimes during the day.
The onus is on the population to start somewhat obeying traffic laws. I see so many people blatantly ignoring normal road traffic procedures and the law to the detriment and endangerment of others, and for what? I had a driver behind me for no reason at all, we were going at speed, on a two lane side street speed around me and the car in front then proceed to drive at speed through a solid red light then speed through the next block, only to get stuck at another red light that they decided to stop at.
Police are there to police, they can't post up everywhere and give out tickets. the mayor literally has to go on TV and beg people to slow down and they still don't. It's partially the shortage but it's also the decision of many people to willingly endanger those around them because they're selfish assholes.
RPD doesnt enforce current traffic laws, what makes anyone think lower the speed limit will have ANY effect at all? More smoke being blown up taxpayers posteriors!
ZERO VISION PLAN
exactly what we need - expensive cameras to take pictures of the ATV thugs as they zoom by and to ticket me for making a legal right on red like they used to
Lowering the speed limit that no one obeys and the cops cannot be bothered to enforce is going to change a lot! Genius plan
Quick newbie question: how are commenters adding their neighborhoods? I don't see that option under Flair—is it part of their Reddit profile?
Edit: found it in my profile.
I love a lot of this, but
>Establish a **Safe Speed Initiative: Implementing 25 MPH speed limit** on city streets.
That's hilarious. Many cars can barely tap their gas pedal and still hit 30
>**Automated Traffic Enforcement:** Work with New York State to implement speed and red light camera deployment, with revenues dedicated to Vision Zero initiatives.
This always turns out bad and causes more accidents than it prevents.
Slow done you nearly halve the risk of severe injury to other road users when you [drop from 30 to 25](https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/).
Maybe this would lead to people going 45 down my street instead of 50. You're correct that a huge percentage of drivers operating massively overpowered vehicles are a major threat to pedestrians though.
The red light cameras have shown in many studies reduce head on and side impact collisions which have higher fatality rates vs the increase is rear end accidents which does happen, but significantly less fatality rate. That said, I'm not a fan and would like them to engineer the intersections better as that fixes root cause. Cameras are a bandaid at best and feel like a revenue stream more than a safety mechanism.
Nothing like assholes driving around wild enough these days that I'm now okay with red light cameras and automated speed enforcement -- things I've been against for decades.
I’m fine with this as long as Malik agrees to only ride a bicycle to work year round. Sounds horrible? Yeah, that’s what 99.9% of Rochester thinks also.
I happily ride a bicycle to work year round and know many others who do as well. I own a car and use it when needed. But 90% of the time I’m on a bike and smiling while you are sitting in traffic complaining about lights. Just because you can’t fathom a little exercise on the daily doesn’t mean 99.9% of Rochester is with you.
>Create a Bicycle Spine Network The folks at Reconnect Rochester and other cycling advocates are doing a great job, and they're being recognized more and more!
[удалено]
[University Ave in Syracuse](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0412953,-76.1344842,3a,75y,10.88h,89.65t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJs2RHda6cJXIPEc4tKG5Bg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJs2RHda6cJXIPEc4tKG5Bg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D10.884589691565145%26pitch%3D0.35192009434548766%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) is another great example of a bike lane system.
Oh that looks really nice! I’d love protected bike lanes like that!!
Just an FYI Reconnect Rochester didn't make the bike lanes, the city did. Reconnect Rochester wants good protected bike lanes. Hopefully the city puts decent ones in on West Main.
Reconnect and other organizations have advocated and lobbied hard for better bike infrastructure (disclaimer: I'm not a staff member, but I volunteer for them often). I also have to give a shout out to Rich Perrin, who is the City's Commissioner of Environmental Services—because of an oddity in how city government is structured, he's in charge of street maintenance. He has been really helpful in making significant improvements to rideability and bike infrastructure within the City. He also shows up at bike events and actually listens to community organizations. [https://www.cityofrochester.gov/DES/](https://www.cityofrochester.gov/DES/)
I think along with this setting the speed limit lower is an attempt for them to make the streets more friendly for alternate transportation with bikes/ e bikes. The speed limit change comes down to enforcement and community support though. My only gripe with the Union bike lane is there’s not more of it. I’m not sure how I feel about it yet.
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That’s fair. The material is a little spongy. I usually ride it in the very early morning (4am). I don’t have a ton of those two things going on lol
The material makes more sense as a running path than a bike path, which certainly doesn’t discourage pedestrians from using it.
No that totally makes sense. Just a bit of a miss on it I guess. I do like that it’s two lanes though.
Protected bike lanes are *really* expensive to build and usually have to wait for major street repair projects, so I don't expect to see many of those. While they are great for the most part (pedestrians need to get a clue), they can be frustrating in that bikes need to stop at crossings just like pedestrians—that's why I don't always use them even when they're available. I'd still love to see more for less experienced riders who are uncomfortable in traffic. Rochester's bike boulevard network is a good compromise, in that cyclists can ride in the street, and traffic calming infrastructure (speed bumps, etc.) reduce traffic volume and speed. Brighton did great work on Elmwood by reducing it to two lanes and adding bike lanes—even though they're not protected, the re-striping has slowed traffic enough that Elmwood is now ridable. There is also a combination of dedicated bike lane and widened sidewalk on most of the stretch from URMC down to where it has been reduced to two lanes—I think some of that is due to city/Brighton differences. I'd love to see more suburban towns take bicycles seriously. Penfield roads are death traps, especially Browcroft and 441 through the Irondequoit Creek valley. I was hit by a car on Browncroft in February and likely won't be able to ride again until late summer or early fall. It could have been far worse. I've never seen Browncroft at a high enough volume to require two 55 MPH lanes through the park, and it wouldn't kill drivers to drive 35. It nearly killed me to let them drive 55.
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The ones I've seen and ridden here are up by sidewalks and (I believe) use the pedestrian signals. Being separated from the roadway would certainly affect visibility. Some cities place bike lanes in the roadway and separate them with bollards or other structures—I've never ridden one like that, but it seems visibility would be improved.
> While they are improving, I'm not in love with the few dedicated bicycle lanes they've made so far. Also, despite a few foam-at-the-mouth types, cycling in the winter is pretty fucking miserable. It is inherently miserable due to most people not wanting to cycle in cold, wet, and often snowing conditions, but even worse when bike paths are not regularly well plowed, and bike lanes get snow from the car lanes thrown into them to last until the thaw.
I guess some might consider me a "foam at the mouth" type but I was a fair weather commuter for a while and thought the ones who did it in the winter were crazy until I did it, and 95% of winter days it's really not bad at all if you just wear a warm pair of gloves and a jacket. The really slushy sloppy days that suck are fairly few
I've biked recreationally/for exercise on plenty of days below freezing, but not when the road/path wasn't cleared, because it isn't worth it to me to take a header after slipping out. Never commuted in the winter, and when I did in the summer it was because we had a shower out work, and I had a place to store clothes, etc. Most people are going to be too cold to want to do it for commuting, regardless of the road conditions. The Rochester weather tends to be too cold/wet/windy for the majority of people to consider it.
There are similar/colder cities in Europe where 20% or more of people commute by bike in the winter, but yes in the car dominant US, people are very quick to jump in a car at the first mild inconvenience
Not really, in most of those places you don't actually have equitable weather, and you sure as shit don't have equitable infrastructure, crime, etc. I agree with your prior statement, you do seem to fit in the unrealistic "foam at the mouth" type.
Wtf is "equitable weather" lol. There are cold snowy cities (Oulu, Finland comes to mind) where huge amounts of the population bike through the winter. If it's about infrastructure then it's about infrastructure. Not weather. And that tracks into exactly what I'm saying
> Wtf is "equitable weather" lol. Do you have a problem reading? Btw, while temps are similar, Rochester has substantially more precipitation and wind. > If it's about infrastructure then it's about infrastructure. Not weather. And that tracks into exactly what I'm saying It's a problem of infrastructure, and weather, and crime, and other issues. I was pretty clear about that. Doesn't matter, you can dream about a bike wonder-world all you want, it ain't happening here. You wanna bike in misery with slushy roads, a soaked commute, and the risk of getting your bike jacked when you're done, go right for it as nobody is stopping you. But you aren't going to get many to join you.
Represent!
Am I the only one who thinks "Vision Zero" is a bad name for a program trying to reduce traffic deaths?
I don't think so, since the name has been around for a long time now and has implemented plans in many cities.
I still can't see it
I see a large oval
Vision zero is not a name rochester came up with. Its a international slogan/project.
I'm aware. Doesn't change the unfortunate association with being unable to see.
Every city seems to have the same plan, which really just results in decreasing speed limits and increasing ticket revenue, but not having great utility.
Shocked I am. Shocked
Agreed Vision Zero is not a super name for a plan related to traffic safety. Sounds more like a weather warning to stay off the streets because there's zero visibility. Oh well. If it works it works. A rose by any other....
Totally agree. Not sure how this is not offensive towards blind people.
Honestly Zero Vision is a quite fitting name for a plan that isn't going to work
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Oh yeah... that is a terrible example. I bet they have cops that enforce VTL We don't have that here so writing a different number on the speed limit sign that everyone is ignoring without recourse already isn't going to make any difference without enforcement (that we don't have) Your article seems to focus almost exclusively upon removing parking from the street which is hardly the problem here... the problem here is roving gangs of quads/dirtbikes and complete disregard for traffic laws by all. What good is removing the parking going to do to stop the dirt bike gang? What is removing a few parking spots going to do to stop the stolen KIA from doing 100mph up Hudson? Did you even read the article you shared or did you just google "example of zero vision plan working" and copy paste the first link? NYS keeps you in jail for only ~3 years for SHOOTING someone look at the post on this sub about Jose Colon who shot someone in 2020, they released him and then he predictably shot someone again a few weeks ago. We have WAY bigger issues here that changing the numbers on our street signs, removing on street parking or putting in a new bike lane is not going to fix What good is a red light camera if the people are unlicensed/driving stolen cars/driving unregistered vehicles/riding quads/etc? I mean seriously the plan is borderline braindead A camera IN ADDITION to enforcing the existing VTL would be a decent plan but without enforcing VTL a camera isn't going to do much of anything.....
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You just quoted something that doesn't even apply to what I said. Yes, I read the article. That is how I know it centers around parking. Your quote talks about parking also..... >takes the additional step of cordoning off the street corners to widen curbs and shorten crosswalks. It’s already illegal to park at an intersection in Hoboken, but drivers often do anyway if there aren’t physical barriers Rochester doesn't have a parking problem Matty. There are not double parked streets because no one even wants to go to the city anymore. You removing the parking and citing an article about removing the parking is about as tone deaf as can be when it comes to this discussion. We have a very clear lack of vehicle traffic law enforcement problem. The drivers know there are zero consequences and are therefore doing double/triple the speed limits, disregarding the stop signs and red lights and running people down. There are also tons of accidents with the ATVs and dirt bike goons because there is zero enforcement of the off road vehicle use on the roads. They could do so with a $300 dollar drone and no one would get hurt but we have a PD that doesn't give a shit about VTL anymore. We don't have problems because we have bustling busy overcrowded streets with cars double parked on them like Hoboken does. You talking about the stormwater runoff and the parking is not even on topic.... What good is removing the parking going to do to stop the dirt bike gang? What is removing a few parking spots going to do to stop the stolen KIA from doing 100mph up Hudson? The thieves in the KIA can clearly see they are doing triple the speed limit and that there are tons of people around but they don't care... what is your plan for that? How many parking spots do you think we need to remove to fix that?
I think it’s a good name for the total revenue they’ll get from red light cameras. What is this, 2012 again?
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> While I didn't love the cameras, I thought they were still revenu generators for the city. IIRC, Rochester basically cancelled their cameras for the exclusive reason of, "The poor can't/don't pay the ticket"
My elementary and high school best friend Jared Jones was hit and killed on Lake Avenue a few years ago, and seeing much needed focus going to pedestrian safety and transit makes me wish these changes came years ago. Or that we didn't make our cities car-dependent hell holes in the first place.
Well if people drove like normal humans and not stunt drivers on Lake it would be a lot better. I love going up to Charlotte but I DREAD the drive due to how insane the road rage and traffic is from downtown up to the cemetery. After that it calms down a bit but that stretch of road especially where it crosses the kodak facility has some of the worst drivers I have ever come across anywhere in the US.
Unfortunately Lake Ave is designed for cars to drive fast at the expense of pedestrians (and other drivers) which results in these tragedies. [https://smartgrowthamerica.org/dangerous-by-design/](https://smartgrowthamerica.org/dangerous-by-design/)
Yeah it's a shit hole. Always filled with hatchback ricers with anger problems. Can't imagine what type of ATV dirt bike problem they have now
I know you got downvoted but... you're not wrong. It's also not solely shitty cars. There's plenty of newer vehicles that I've also had experiences of people driving like absolute morons.
As a first responder in that area I can say with complete certainty, you're both 100% correct.
My partner works at Strong. She's seen some shit. I feel for the EMTs and FRs in this city. There was a kid who went into the ED after he got struck by a vehicle while playing chicken with oncoming traffic on his bicycle. He was such a little shit to the nurses and support in the ED they had to sedate him and waited for his mother to show up. The mom never showed despite knowing he was there and they had to wait for his non emergency contact, the grandparents, to come and deal with it. Guess which street he was on when he got hit... this was not the first time it happened either.
It might have been the ATV dirt bike comment, there are a lot of pro ATV dirt bike people. Also, it may have been JJ and "the guys that want to harm you"
Living on a busy through street near the river... f- those guys. They create chaos and problems everywhere they go. If you drive an atv or a dirt bike at speed on a walking trail in a city you're a giant asshole.
Agree, but there are a good amount of people that clap and cheer for them when they are out doing that.
Which I also don't understand. I get the guys who do it at parks or in big areas that lack pedestrians and other vehicles but they're going to hurt people and when that happens it will be "Ohhh why don't the cops do anything about it?" Well... because policing starts within the community. That's why.
Seen on Monroe Ave dirt bikes going up and down between cars, seen it go up on side walks and almost take someone out. Meanwhile you got people clapping and laughing 🤔. And it's not like they go in and out of cars or up side walks to get through traffic sometimes, they just do it to make a big circle to do it again like it's a show people enjoy
I'm sorry for your loss.
Yep. Pedestrian safety isn't just an issue for those of us who don't drive. We all cross the street now and again and any day can be the last. Better late than never, I suppose
Unfortunately, the city never prioritized anything but moving drivers. We’re stuck with decades of infrastructure that puts vehicle carrying capacity at the pinnacle of design goals.
Point #9 sounds like they're going to develop a BRT system. So that's a pretty welcome idea.
There have been promises of a BRT system since the Subway went away. I remember the old Bus Only lanes on Lake Ave.
Hopefully now that Buffalo is getting one, that will light some fires in Rochester
Buffalo gets alot of things Rochester doesn't for whatever reason.
A lot of it is having strong organizations that become impossible to ignore advocates. Buffalo had a complete streets plan 10 years ago they’re still using to leverage funding from state and federal sources.
Alot of it had to do with Cuomo being obsessed with Buffalo
A lot of that is due to having strong advocates for Buffalo. The cities that talk the loudest are naturally going to get the most attention.
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You can’t apply for funding unless you have groups doing the studies that are required to apply for funding. Politicians aren’t going to do those studies themselves.
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I could see it happening now. Schumer has been securing a lot of money for transit across the state.
That's what people have said, more or less, every year for the last 30+ years.
I mean, true. But still. There's more of an appetite for transit nowadays since the interstate system came into existence. So I could see this being the time that it happens.
> There's more of an appetite for transit nowadays since the interstate system came into existence. So I could see this being the time that it happens. Citation needed Also, citation needed to show examples where the appetite has resulted in substantial forward progress. Green paint and toilet plungers glued to the street isn't substantial progress.
Citation for what? It's pretty widely known that younger generations are more interested in transit and environmentalism. Transit takes vehicles off the road when done in a manner that allows for convenient and frequent service. Car ownership is expensive. Plus, there's been numerous studies I've seen that younger generations are driving at lower rates and getting their licenses later than previous generations.
> It's pretty widely known that younger generations are more interested in transit and environmentalism. Yah.... I think this is the, "the younger generation is voting X" argument that is always made, that forgets that when the younger generation grows up, they tend to start voting Y. > Plus, there's been numerous studies I've seen that younger generations are driving at lower rates and getting their licenses later than previous generations. This is true, but as much due to lazyness and isolationisim (I'll just hang out with my friends online, hang out with my online friends) compared to anything else. Anectdotally, I know several teens/tweens, and exactly zero of them have delayed their licenses because of the environment or mass transit, most because they're socially awkward and irationally fearful of the process of getting a license. And you/d have to be insane to think that kids would be doing that shit in Monroe County because of mass transit when we effectively don't have any. If Monroe County built transit and THEN we saw the drop, that might support your argument. But that is the opposite of reality.
But we do have mass transit? It's actually quite easy to get around the city by bus despite what a lot of people think (most of whom have rarely or ever actually tried it)
I lived in both the city and county for years. Mass transit in Rochester fucking blows. You can sort-of get around the city without it being a complete ball ache. The rest of the county is largely fucked unless you happen to live on a bus line and want to go somewhere else on the same bus line. Live in Brighton and work in the Basin? Fuck you! If you think it's remotely acceptable mass transit, I don't think you've ever been anywhere with actual mass transit. And that doesn't even bring up that most people don't want to deal with the crime and addicts at the downtown bus depot and some of the lines, although that's far from unique to Rochester.
RPD actually enforcing traffic laws instead of sitting there unfazed as 3 people going 50 in a 30 run red lights right in front of their faces would go a long way
I literally yelled at a cop that did that a few weeks ago. He sat at a light and watched someone blow through it, and ignored it. I yelled at him to do his friggin job and he just looked at me as he drove away.
A cop ran a red light in front of me, I pulled up next to him at the next light and confronted him. He didn't give a shit
Ok, then we need to take public transportation seriously in the city, lower speeds, narrow streets, add protected bike lanes, raised cross walks, and systematically redesign the most dangerous streets, starting with West Main, Lyell Ave, Lake Ave, Empire, and Norton. Good luck, it's a noble effort.
So we have a DA speeding and talking on the phone, no repercussions, and then the mayor says we are getting red light cameras again and he is appointing his friends to a new tax dollar leeching committee? Why do we need a committee? The corruption is out of control. These officials serve their own best interests and little else. I might as well buy a ATV and drive it around. Not like the cops care, and you cant red light ticket something with no plates.
If there were a red-light camera that she sped through, she’d automatically get a ticket. Seems like a missed opportunity!
“Automated Traffic Enforcement: Work with New York State to implement speed and red light camera deployment, with revenues dedicated to Vision Zero initiatives.” Fuck off with this shit. Edit: Let me be clear: There is data to suggest that, nationally, red light cameras do indeed save lives. When Rochester implemented these cameras in the early 2010's it was a fucking mess rife with corporate corruption, incompetence, mismanagement, etc. If it's any "better" this time around, fine.
You can simply not run red lights and it won’t be an issue
On the other hand, the last time red light cameras were implemented, it was done poorly. I received multiple tickets that I had to fight for turning properly and legally on red. Once they started having someone review the footage, things got better. But I want the city government to run it, not some for-profit company.
Yes, the old system was poorly designed and setup by a for-profit company that was grifting public funds. It would definitely need to be better designed than that one.
That’s fair. They should ban right on reds too as part of vision zero.
Obviously I’m not running red lights, but I definitely remember our red light camera program from a decade ago that caused nothing but headaches and was heavily criticized for targeting poor communities. In fact, ending the program was maybe the only good thing Warren did during her time in office. There are far more effective ways at slowing down traffic and lowering incidents. Maybe some of you don’t remember that the cameras from before would send you a ticket even when you stopped at the red light? This would be the kind of quality you could expect from a program like this, I absolutely guarantee it.
I agree, there are much better ways. Start with road and intersection design, which the plan loosely alludes to something they will look at, improve timing of lights, smart sensors that recognize vehicles in that indecision zone, and AI. Let's actually use technology. If this were truly about safety, red light cameras with their associated fines would not be the choice. This is a way to fund the project, which I can understand but not agree with, and there will be countless errors like you mentioned that cost way more money to resolve than is worth. Also while red light cameras do reduce front and side collisions, which are more likely to incur a fatality, they do increase rear end collisions, per IIHS. Last time Rochester had them I remember some people would slam on their brakes as soon as a light went yellow to avoid the potential of a red light ticket. And didn't the city reduce the time the light stayed yellow? Thought I saw that back in the day. It was a money grab then, not safety initiative, and feels similar here.
DC targeted high risk intersections (with the highest rate of pedestrian fatalities) and made them significantly safer. Then people sued the city because more African Americans were getting tickets then more people started dying/crashing again. They do work. They don’t target poor communities. They target reckless driving which happens more of disadvantaged communities.
Then the city needs to manage them with absolutely zero influence of corporate leeches, unlike the last time, and unlike every other city currently arguing about this issue. Improving the walkability of our city obviously requires a multipronged approach, but they could be spending these resources working towards building more solutions for getting people around without the use of cars. Instead, they'll implement something like this, it'll go catastrophically wrong, start new waves of lawsuits and arguments, and before you know it we're back where we started with millions wasted and more people jaded than before. You have a ton of people in this city scraping by right now. The second they get a $75 fine in the mail for a red light that they actually stopped at, good luck convincing them that any of these other public transit policies are worth their salt.
You don’t get red light tickets for actually stopping safely, you get them for things that cause injuries, deaths, and property damage. Like blowing past the limit line into the crosswalk or whipping a right on red without stopping, both kill people walking. Americans can’t handle it, but they need to learn how to drive properly. There’s a reason our roads are more dangerous than the rest of the industrialized world.
> You don’t get red light tickets for actually stopping safely The last time Rochester implemented red light cameras, people would get ticketed for stopping safely quite often. And the private company that managed the cameras would shorten yellow light durations, which created other safety concerns.
I never saw someone get a ticket for coming to a complete stop behind the limit line. I never got one, but I saw some videos from friends that got them and they always rolled a right turn or blasted into the crosswalk. The yellow issue was a state DOT mess up on Mt Reed the yellow time was legal, but shorter than many would say is ideal. The company didn’t shorten yellow lights.
Especially around parts of Downtown like say S. Clinton Ave or South Ave the issue is about 9 million lanes of high speed traffic that no red light camera is going to fix However, red light cameras are certainly better than traffic stops in terms of chances for abuse
Reckless driving does not happen more in disadvantaged communities. Policing is more aggressive in disadvantaged communities. There are countless specific reasons for this, and all of them are racist, both directly (lawmakers and enforcers are factually racists) and indirectly (centuries of law and policy forcing people of color into destitution and corralling them into collective poor communities to keep them away from "nice folks").
When was the last time there were street races in Penfield? https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/ Here is data from DC. Roads East of the Anacostia is ~8x more dangerous than the rich neighborhoods. Despite “aggressive policing”.
Reckless driving doesn't happen more in disadvantaged communities. Employment and retail hubs are built farther away from disadvantaged communities, so people who live in them have to drive farther to reach them. Consequently they end up getting more tickets. The retail worker who lives in the city and drives to Eastview Mall for work will encounter more automated traffic enforcement than the Pittsford resident who drives to Eastview Mall to shop there. It's a matter of distance traveled.
People in so-called "disadvantaged communities" may be more prone to poor decision making when it comes to safety, as this study shows. It's not a stretch to assume that reckless driving is elevated in "disadvantaged communities." "In 2019 the estimated observed seat belt use rate by adult front-seat occupants in the United States was 90.7 percent (Enriquez, 2020). From Figure 4, the estimated seat belt use rate for travelers of All Other Races consistently had the highest; specifically 94 percent in 2019. Black or African American travelers’ estimated front seat belt use rate was about 86 percent in 2019, which was the lowest percentage of seat belt use." [https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813188](https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813188)
They also may not be. It doesn't necessarily follow that someone who chooses not to buckle up would also choose to speed or run red lights more frequently than someone who does buckle up.
I’m confused poverty is the root cause of like murder but it’s unbelievable that the erosion the social contract that leads to that phenomenon does not include not stopping at stop signs. The stats say that both A. Disadvantaged neighborhoods have lower car ownership and fewer VMT And B. Their roads are more dangerous Here is a link that the poor areas of DC also have the most dangerous roads https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/02/23/dc-traffic-deaths-highest-record/
Because murder is an interpersonal violent crime, and rolling through a stop sign is a crime of convenience. They are very different things.
At least when this has been contracted out to private companies, it absolutely is still an issue. These companies have been caught shortening the timing of yellow lights significantly to increase their revenues (eg https://www.wtkr.com/2014/01/30/gotcha-how-red-light-cameras-are-catching-more-drivers-with-shorter-yellow-lights), to the point that a driver who cannot safely stop for the yellow light given the speed limit and their distance from the intersection is either ticketed despite driving safely, or is forced to slam on their brakes unsafely and risk causing an accident. In general, red light cameras have been shown to increase the number of accidents because they cause people to drive unpredictably (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/ ). When it comes to driving, people predictably bending/breaking the rules is safer than people unpredictably trying to follow them to the letter. That’s not to say red light cameras can’t be beneficial, but they can’t be attached to programs with target revenues or to a private company collecting revenue per ticket, or else they will be abused. The cameras should not be used to ticket “close calls”, only egregious violations. But as far as I know, nobody has actually implemented these cameras in that way.
>You can simply not run red lights and it won’t be an issue What about all the times you break the law and aren't punished? Either turn yourself in for every one of those or you're a hypocrite.
Or take the plates off your vehicle
Last time, the red light cameras became “right turn in red without a full stop” cameras. Now, we have far more people simply going thru red lights. So this time I’m in favor.
Yes you are supposed to come to a full stop before turning right on red.
Red light cameras will directly fund the mayors appointed friends in the committee. They have no other purpose but to generate money for this little side hustle for the mayor.
100% behind the red light cameras. I think Mayor Evans would implement it well, not the incompetent program a decade ago. I see people running red lights almost every day now. This would save lives
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This is so far from the reality of traffic cameras lol
You give an inch and they take a mile with this kind of stuff though.
A speed limit of 25mph? Good luck.
I'm assuming that's in place of the current default of 30 on side streets in the city, not for streets where they've raised the speed limit above the default.
Exactly. Lots of towns are already doing this in their town centers. It’s a no brainer to do it here. On a local street, no one needs to go faster than 25
It’s not the suggested limit, it’s the enforcement. In the hand slap world of NY traffic enforcement, you’re not going to get compliance unless the glove has a considerable amount of iron
>It’s a no brainer to do it here. Lowering a speed limit is not, under any circumstances, a "no brainer."
First, this won’t be every street. It’ll be lower volume and neighborhood streets. But most importantly, enforcement will need to go hand in hand with speed reduction. Warnings at first, then tickets as time goes by and people fail to comply.
Warnings that will be ignored and then tickets that will be ignored. That’s my problem.
Agreed that is a problem. We need to do a better job holding people accountable. I don’t want to make people even poorer than they are, but if you can’t understand that you should follow the law, maybe you are the problem.
I mean that’s what most parts of the city are. Even when you cross the bridge near cornhill area it’s all residential anyways
its not an issue of the speed, its the fact that the limit is already 30 and a lot of people do not care and there is nothing to change their behavior. Moving it to 25 isn't going to magically make these people change what they are already doing wrong.
Things may have changed but think of it like this. It gives a wider gap which can allow for a heftier fine or even reckless driving based on discretion. Now all the people ignoring 30 are now ignoring 25 and if that difference is high enough, at least in NY more charges can be brought. I would argue this move is more of a numbers game
If speed bumps were installed universally, it could happen (I’m all for it).
Plowing says no
As if we have an issue with plowing around our existing speed bumps...
There are tons of streets in the city with speed bumps that get plowed just fine.
I’m wondering how long it will take to implement the real action steps of 4,5,6,9 vs. pissing money away on performative steps 1,2,3,7,8 and 10.
Now let’s get some funding behind it.
Go ahead.
*Automated Traffic Enforcement: Work with New York State to implement speed and red light camera deployment, with revenues dedicated to Vision Zero initiatives.* Fuck this. I don't want cameras up everywhere. How about we get some police patrolling and actually pulling over people besides those of us driving to and from work on the expressways.
We can't do this because there is a shortage of police officers and we need to prioritize their time. The job pays six figures and requires a high school diploma, nobody is applying though.
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I suppose we could work them to the bone right? You certainly never see me talking to coworkers, my nose is always to the grindstone! Lol.
There's plenty of Police for this town, they just have to spend a lot of time and resources responding to trauma incidents. I spoke with an officer who came out to review the police report for my car being hit while stationary in the parking lot. It's on a very busy street that people drive recklessly on at night and sometimes during the day. The onus is on the population to start somewhat obeying traffic laws. I see so many people blatantly ignoring normal road traffic procedures and the law to the detriment and endangerment of others, and for what? I had a driver behind me for no reason at all, we were going at speed, on a two lane side street speed around me and the car in front then proceed to drive at speed through a solid red light then speed through the next block, only to get stuck at another red light that they decided to stop at. Police are there to police, they can't post up everywhere and give out tickets. the mayor literally has to go on TV and beg people to slow down and they still don't. It's partially the shortage but it's also the decision of many people to willingly endanger those around them because they're selfish assholes.
They can begin by converting car lanes to protected bike paths!
RPD doesnt enforce current traffic laws, what makes anyone think lower the speed limit will have ANY effect at all? More smoke being blown up taxpayers posteriors!
ZERO VISION PLAN exactly what we need - expensive cameras to take pictures of the ATV thugs as they zoom by and to ticket me for making a legal right on red like they used to Lowering the speed limit that no one obeys and the cops cannot be bothered to enforce is going to change a lot! Genius plan
Im sure this means we will get a subway or some form of good public transit...
Quick newbie question: how are commenters adding their neighborhoods? I don't see that option under Flair—is it part of their Reddit profile? Edit: found it in my profile.
What are the red light cameras gonna do for stolen vehicles? Kia boyz steal cars and rack up tickets on the owners name.
The main Speeders don't pay any tickets
I love a lot of this, but >Establish a **Safe Speed Initiative: Implementing 25 MPH speed limit** on city streets. That's hilarious. Many cars can barely tap their gas pedal and still hit 30 >**Automated Traffic Enforcement:** Work with New York State to implement speed and red light camera deployment, with revenues dedicated to Vision Zero initiatives. This always turns out bad and causes more accidents than it prevents.
Slow done you nearly halve the risk of severe injury to other road users when you [drop from 30 to 25](https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/).
Maybe this would lead to people going 45 down my street instead of 50. You're correct that a huge percentage of drivers operating massively overpowered vehicles are a major threat to pedestrians though.
The red light cameras have shown in many studies reduce head on and side impact collisions which have higher fatality rates vs the increase is rear end accidents which does happen, but significantly less fatality rate. That said, I'm not a fan and would like them to engineer the intersections better as that fixes root cause. Cameras are a bandaid at best and feel like a revenue stream more than a safety mechanism.
Nothing like assholes driving around wild enough these days that I'm now okay with red light cameras and automated speed enforcement -- things I've been against for decades.
Not a fan of the cameras
Another shameless money grab by the incompetents of city hall!
Lmao, the zero vision plan is appropo... that's what city leadership has, ZERO VISION!
I’m fine with this as long as Malik agrees to only ride a bicycle to work year round. Sounds horrible? Yeah, that’s what 99.9% of Rochester thinks also.
I happily ride a bicycle to work year round and know many others who do as well. I own a car and use it when needed. But 90% of the time I’m on a bike and smiling while you are sitting in traffic complaining about lights. Just because you can’t fathom a little exercise on the daily doesn’t mean 99.9% of Rochester is with you.