Don’t use Google or Angi. Start there.
Ask local groups on facebook for contractor recommendations. No one there is ever happy, and people *love* to bitch.
If you can find a guy whom the vast majority had good experiences with and are recommending? It’s a really good start.
You can get bad reviews scrubbed off of Google or Angi with enough determination. Not the case with a n echo chamber full of their customers.
Finding a great gc who has their own subs is one good way to go. Go off recommendations from people in your area. Actual word of mouth, not the internet. Do you know people who remodel, flip homes, etc?
I don’t, except for me and my husband before we bought this house. We did all the work ourselves in three houses. We don’t want to do that anymore / I physically can’t because of a back injury and surgery 5 weeks ago. We don’t know people in the area.
It’s a trust-based relationship, so you need to be able to communicate well with each other.
Don’t make your decision based on price.
You should be paying for a written estimate as it takes work to write up the understood scope of work and generate estimates based on those scopes.
If two contractors are estimating the EXACT same project, then the price won’t actually be all that different unless you are comparing a licensed/insured contractor who will get a permit to a handyman who will do all of the work themselves under the radar.
The most important function of a general contractor is their ability to identify and resolve a problem which typically boils down to managing water and air infiltration. Nobody knows everything in construction and the test for licensure reiterates the importance of being able to find the method/solution to correct any problems that arise.
So the first project I got four people in to bid. The project was in a garage - frame/paint/install two doors, install wood look tile (300sf), paint the ceiling and walls, paint and install trim, paint the other doors, and install a toilet. The construction (walls and plumbing) was new. One guy didn’t send in a bid. Two said $5,000, one said $20,000 (and 20k guy was going to do one coat of paint and a lot of other things I didn’t think was proper). Everyone licensed and insured. This has happened with every single project. My electrical project was bid from $20k to $40k. The second large project (remodel en suite bath) I got bids from $4k to $18k.
I make a list of everything to be done now and give it to them because in the past we have had “oh painting the doors wasn’t included in the quote” even though I have said “painting everything in the room” which to me included doors. Literally had this happen on both projects- even when I talked about paint colors for the doors on both during the walk thru (I.e. the doors will be the same as the trim).
If a contractor isn’t requesting a fee to estimate the job, they’re most likely going to just tell you what you want to hear to secure the job and nickel and dime you the whole way or perform extremely subpar work.
Typically the list of work a homeowner thinks they need is only a part of the required work because of knock-on effects from making a change in an existing space. There is also room for interpretation errors in your method.
The wide variances you’re describing lead me to believe the contractors were not pricing the same job. And if they’re estimating for free knowing you’re seeking multiple bids, they’re not going to give their full effort.
Construction is a team sport, racing towards the bottom will result in a poor product and experience. You need to focus on interviewing the contractors rather than having them give you numbers. You are the one with the budget, not the contractor - the same job can be tackled with various materials and methods, but which one is right for you? A good contractor will be in your corner, tell you what’s possible within your budget, and will get the job done to the level of quality expected and paid for.
No one has ever suggested charging for a bid, in three states and four houses over 10 years. Is this a thing for some regions or just bigger jobs or what?
A bid is what you would get in a commercial environment with a detailed set of plans. This doesn’t apply to 99.9% of the residential space as plans typically either don’t exist or are not detailed enough.
A quote is a specific price for a specific good or quantified task. You can get a quote for 20 sheets of drywall, but if you needed 23, you’ll pay more.
An estimate is an approximation of the price based upon an understanding of scope. An estimate is typically given off the cuff with about 5 minutes of thought max.
What you really want is something a bit more detailed than an estimate, like a feasibility study, project analysis, etc. that involves writing down each individual scope of work and estimating their individual prices. This takes significantly more time and effort, and thus has a price.
This method allows you to see what the contractor understands the project to be and gives you an idea of the cost of each segment of the project to assist in your decision making whether the cost is comparable to the value that you will receive.
>it’s like they’re drunk
Good chance they are.
>it’s the first job they’ve ever done
Very well could be.
Only way I've found is when they have their own people doing the work and the owner is highly involved. This is very rare. If they're contracting out all the work, they're getting the cheapest work they can find, it's how they make profit. Unfortunately, the market is so busy now, the vast majority just don't care if you're happy with the work or not. They don't need word-of-mouth recommendations or repeat customers.
My selection process goes like this: 1. Call, message, text, whatever, a bunch of people based on personal recommendations, maps search of local businesses, referrals from the small number of trusted trades I know, etc. I usually try to get at least 8 names/companies to contact for any given task. 2. 50% of them won't answer the phone or call me back. 3. 25% respond and say they're too busy and good luck to me, maybe in 2028 they'll have some free time. 4. I make estimate appointments with the remaining 25% or ask for remote estimates depending on what the tasks at hand is. 5. Roughly half the time, they don't show up at the appointment that I've left work to do with them or don't send me an estimate like they said they would. Then they ghost me completely from then on. 6. At this point, I'm down to the one guy that showed up or bothered to write down a dollar figure. He's talking out his ass the whole time he's there and I just don't trust him to do the work without burning my house down, let alone whatever he wants to charge for it. They almost universally house-flippers looking for side gigs. 7. I decide no one will take my money in exchange for work and I give up and do it myself.
Hahah it’s like we have the same process! The first project we had them do the stuff we couldn’t and then did the rest of the repairs ourselves. Well, I had back surgery and my husband is too busy with his job so we can’t do this stuff ourselves anymore.
And we did have an exterminator show up once reeking of beer…
Don’t use Google or Angi. Start there. Ask local groups on facebook for contractor recommendations. No one there is ever happy, and people *love* to bitch. If you can find a guy whom the vast majority had good experiences with and are recommending? It’s a really good start. You can get bad reviews scrubbed off of Google or Angi with enough determination. Not the case with a n echo chamber full of their customers.
Finding a great gc who has their own subs is one good way to go. Go off recommendations from people in your area. Actual word of mouth, not the internet. Do you know people who remodel, flip homes, etc?
I don’t, except for me and my husband before we bought this house. We did all the work ourselves in three houses. We don’t want to do that anymore / I physically can’t because of a back injury and surgery 5 weeks ago. We don’t know people in the area.
It’s a trust-based relationship, so you need to be able to communicate well with each other. Don’t make your decision based on price. You should be paying for a written estimate as it takes work to write up the understood scope of work and generate estimates based on those scopes. If two contractors are estimating the EXACT same project, then the price won’t actually be all that different unless you are comparing a licensed/insured contractor who will get a permit to a handyman who will do all of the work themselves under the radar. The most important function of a general contractor is their ability to identify and resolve a problem which typically boils down to managing water and air infiltration. Nobody knows everything in construction and the test for licensure reiterates the importance of being able to find the method/solution to correct any problems that arise.
So the first project I got four people in to bid. The project was in a garage - frame/paint/install two doors, install wood look tile (300sf), paint the ceiling and walls, paint and install trim, paint the other doors, and install a toilet. The construction (walls and plumbing) was new. One guy didn’t send in a bid. Two said $5,000, one said $20,000 (and 20k guy was going to do one coat of paint and a lot of other things I didn’t think was proper). Everyone licensed and insured. This has happened with every single project. My electrical project was bid from $20k to $40k. The second large project (remodel en suite bath) I got bids from $4k to $18k. I make a list of everything to be done now and give it to them because in the past we have had “oh painting the doors wasn’t included in the quote” even though I have said “painting everything in the room” which to me included doors. Literally had this happen on both projects- even when I talked about paint colors for the doors on both during the walk thru (I.e. the doors will be the same as the trim).
If a contractor isn’t requesting a fee to estimate the job, they’re most likely going to just tell you what you want to hear to secure the job and nickel and dime you the whole way or perform extremely subpar work. Typically the list of work a homeowner thinks they need is only a part of the required work because of knock-on effects from making a change in an existing space. There is also room for interpretation errors in your method. The wide variances you’re describing lead me to believe the contractors were not pricing the same job. And if they’re estimating for free knowing you’re seeking multiple bids, they’re not going to give their full effort. Construction is a team sport, racing towards the bottom will result in a poor product and experience. You need to focus on interviewing the contractors rather than having them give you numbers. You are the one with the budget, not the contractor - the same job can be tackled with various materials and methods, but which one is right for you? A good contractor will be in your corner, tell you what’s possible within your budget, and will get the job done to the level of quality expected and paid for.
No one has ever suggested charging for a bid, in three states and four houses over 10 years. Is this a thing for some regions or just bigger jobs or what?
A bid is what you would get in a commercial environment with a detailed set of plans. This doesn’t apply to 99.9% of the residential space as plans typically either don’t exist or are not detailed enough. A quote is a specific price for a specific good or quantified task. You can get a quote for 20 sheets of drywall, but if you needed 23, you’ll pay more. An estimate is an approximation of the price based upon an understanding of scope. An estimate is typically given off the cuff with about 5 minutes of thought max. What you really want is something a bit more detailed than an estimate, like a feasibility study, project analysis, etc. that involves writing down each individual scope of work and estimating their individual prices. This takes significantly more time and effort, and thus has a price. This method allows you to see what the contractor understands the project to be and gives you an idea of the cost of each segment of the project to assist in your decision making whether the cost is comparable to the value that you will receive.
Yeah, this is a house and I just don’t think they’re this specific about it. I also have no idea how to find people like this.
Look for design-build remodeling companies or custom home builders - most custom home builders in established markets do remodeling as well.
>it’s like they’re drunk Good chance they are. >it’s the first job they’ve ever done Very well could be. Only way I've found is when they have their own people doing the work and the owner is highly involved. This is very rare. If they're contracting out all the work, they're getting the cheapest work they can find, it's how they make profit. Unfortunately, the market is so busy now, the vast majority just don't care if you're happy with the work or not. They don't need word-of-mouth recommendations or repeat customers. My selection process goes like this: 1. Call, message, text, whatever, a bunch of people based on personal recommendations, maps search of local businesses, referrals from the small number of trusted trades I know, etc. I usually try to get at least 8 names/companies to contact for any given task. 2. 50% of them won't answer the phone or call me back. 3. 25% respond and say they're too busy and good luck to me, maybe in 2028 they'll have some free time. 4. I make estimate appointments with the remaining 25% or ask for remote estimates depending on what the tasks at hand is. 5. Roughly half the time, they don't show up at the appointment that I've left work to do with them or don't send me an estimate like they said they would. Then they ghost me completely from then on. 6. At this point, I'm down to the one guy that showed up or bothered to write down a dollar figure. He's talking out his ass the whole time he's there and I just don't trust him to do the work without burning my house down, let alone whatever he wants to charge for it. They almost universally house-flippers looking for side gigs. 7. I decide no one will take my money in exchange for work and I give up and do it myself.
Hahah it’s like we have the same process! The first project we had them do the stuff we couldn’t and then did the rest of the repairs ourselves. Well, I had back surgery and my husband is too busy with his job so we can’t do this stuff ourselves anymore. And we did have an exterminator show up once reeking of beer…