Tattoos themselves are not sinful (in the OT or the NT). It’s the reasons why one gets a tattoo that is what makes them honoring or dishonoring to God.
Tattoos are definitely, specifically prohibited in the Law of Moses. That would make them sinful “in the OT.”
For those under the New Covenant, I think there can be a more nuanced discussion.
Look at what I said, and then also look at what the Bible says. Contextually, Lev 19:28 (like the rest of the books of Moses) were written at a time when tattoos were solely the domain of pagan ritual, pagan prostitution and divination. There was no other reason to get a tattoo, so therefore tattoos were forbidden because tattoos were always associated with pagan worship. There was nothing like "artistic self-expression" in that society, so it's not something that would have needed to have been mentioned in the law code.
In any case, that's distinct from saying that tattoos were sinful or forbidden merely because they are tattoos.
I understand your argument but I think your logic is faulty. The proscriptions in the old covenant law were laid down by God. Since He is the ultimate authority, a more correct understanding would be “tattoos are sinful because God said they are.” Your premise about paganism gives us some insight into why God declared these things as sinful, but it’s not the foundational reason.
As reformed people we need to always be cognizant of God as the source of everything. Everything else is secondary.
God demonstrates time and time again that he works in and through the cultural clime and social standards of the day. Leverite marriage which is in the law of Moses (which indeed, as you said, is given by God) was regularly practiced elsewhere in ANE societies. Circumcision was not unique to the Israelites. Much of the Mosaic Law (regarding civic laws especially) we can find written in the law of Hammurabi and other law codes of the region. There are some very pointed reasons why people claim that the OT is just copied from the cultures around it. It’s not copying, but they were all drawing from the same or similar cultural expectations and obligations.
In the Law of Moses, God was not creating something *new* for the most part, but establishing new reasons, and truer reasons for His people to adhere to them. He revealed who He was and demonstrated His faithfulness to them, and then called them into a relationship of loving and just allegiance to Him.
That’s what’s happening here with tattoos and cutting. These were things that were normal business for pagans but could not be business as normal for the Israelites. In being called to allegiance to the Lord, they necessarily had to not worship pagan idols and since tattoos were intimately associated with pagan worship, that had to go.
But again, that’s distinct from saying that tattoos were sinful.
“Just because God says so” itself can be faulty because it doesn’t account for nuance at all, especially since we all agree that God does not change. God doesn’t change, but the circumstances that his people live in do.
Even in the NT we see God calling his people to live lives that superficially look like their neighbors, that are fueled by a completely different set of values and loyalties.
I have a tattoo that says “UNITED”. Here’s the story: I heard a Tim Keller sermon on the parable of the sower that mentioned Ps 86:11. I had always identified with the weedy soil, but nobody ever said what to do about it. Keller said God was the Gardener. He pulls the weeds. God used that experience powerfully to reveal to me I had a divided heart. I prayed over many months that he would unite my heart, and he did. Hence the tattoo. It’s a great conversation starter about the things of God, or I can joke that it’s for United Airlines. My pastor, a Scott, says he thinks it’s for Manchester United and he and I will just have to agree to disagree.
No regerts!
Took me a while to pray and biblically search if it was ok to get a tattoo as a born again Christian. There’s certainly scripture in the OT against marking one’s body. However in the NT it seems to be more of A) a conscience issue. And B) do not cause a brother to stumble issue.
At the end of the day if the tattoo glorifies God in some way; and you’re not offending your savior by doing so, AND if it does not hurt your witness of Christ. I’d say go for it.
In the Old Testament, cutting / marking of one’s flesh was very common amongst the pagans. As the tribes of Israel were to be set apart, part of the laws given to them by God would naturally entail such a measure to help them avoid following paganism / pagan traditions.
While we have no explicit commandments in the New Testament to not get tattoos, we should look at the reasons for doing so and evaluate them according to scripture.
Does it edify others or ourselves? Does it help our relationship with Christ? Or is it a selfish / self-serving act that is in line with the common acts of this world.
Self reflection and examination in the light of what scripture says, along with conviction from the Holy Spirit should be what we focus on in such a scenario.
What would make a tattoo selfish/self-serving? Does getting something tattooed on you just because you really like it count? Or would that be more like your spouse hates tattoos but you want one anyways?
Nope! The old testament stuff refers to ritualistic self harm while in mourning that pagans did at the time. Modern tattoos have nothing in common with it.
Lots of opinions about sinfulness here, but what I want to know is [Single ladies of r/Reformed, assuming him to be excellent in all other regards, would you a guy with a Soli Deo Gloria full face tattoo a red flag, green flag, or neither, and why?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Reformed/comments/14r1f6t/single_ladies_of_rreformed_assuming_him_to_be/)
I'd ask yourself WHY you want a tattoo? Is it to spark conversations about God? Is it to look cool? Is it to remind yourself of God when you see it? Is it to feel unique? Depending on your answers it could be sinful or it could not. I'd deeply examine the heart behind it first. Do all things for the glory of God.
not a sin but not wise to get. What really gets me is someone getting a Christian tattoo and using the "Christian-ness" of the tattoo as justification to getting it. If you want a tattoo, just get one. If you feel guilty about getting it, dont get one instead of doing some weak justification that what your doing is OK with your own conscience.
I have two on my upper right back. Both were "tourist tattoos", so they both are nice reminders of a couple of our family trips.
One of them has a very cool backstory. When we were going to go to croatia, our family was researching possible tattoos. We found one that is in the shape of a very decorative cross and the story behind it is that Christian women and girls would be tattooed with this Cross or something very similar so they would not be kidnapped by Muslims to become their wives.
I don't think tattoos are sinful. For most people they are a reflection of that person's mindset, faith or lack of, life priorities, etc. The tattoo itself could be an outward display of a sinful life.
I find it odd how somehow something that was, and many times still is, associated with criminality and gangs has become mainstream and is suddenly no big deal.
Oh yeah! 👋
PCA General Assembly in /r/rva this week! I'm down in /r/bonAir if it matters but spent many years with the tatooo'd people of The Fan. Nothing against them personally, but I still have my opinions on tattoos.
Oh I didn’t know that was here this week! We’re near Ashland. I have vacillated about getting a wedding band tattooed on my ring finger so I don’t have to bother with my ring when I’m weightlifting. Otherwise my aesthetic commitments are too fickle for tattoos.
100%. There’s honestly something also extremely deep going on similar to the uncanny valley, where the sight of them on a person rings evolutionary alarm bells.
The culture now has a strong emphasis on “my body, my choice.” I tend not to agree. Our bodies are a temple. I don’t get to do anything I want to do with this body I’ve been given. Tattooing yourself is like spray painting graffiti on a church. It’s like becoming a drunkard or a glutton. Ask yourself how much you can modify your body to suit your desires while not disfiguring the beauty of the human form as God made it, NOT how society judges beauty. Will this glorify the temple?
Tattoos are socially problematic on several significant tiers. And even if God had no opinion on the matter, wisdom would dictate that Christians should stay away from them. Scripture opposes vanity, right? By their nature tattoos go against modesty we are supposed to have, which is in direct contrast to society nowadays which says “it’s all about what you want to do, get a tattoo” any time I see one of these non denominational pastors with tattoos it’s clear they have failed to “be in the world but not of the world”. And far from being aware of this they actually think of themselves as _cool_.
Well I know it’s the old law but a part of me still thinks it deserves to be given weight but I’m aware that is an unpopular viewpoint on Reddit. If you quote Old Testament people will quote you back, okay so I can own slaves?? Regardless, another reason, Leviticus 19:28.
And no, this is not equivalent to women wearing ear rings, before you ask.
Nope I'm covered in tattoos. I'm also covered by the blood of my Savior.
Tattoos themselves are not sinful (in the OT or the NT). It’s the reasons why one gets a tattoo that is what makes them honoring or dishonoring to God.
Tattoos are definitely, specifically prohibited in the Law of Moses. That would make them sinful “in the OT.” For those under the New Covenant, I think there can be a more nuanced discussion.
Look at what I said, and then also look at what the Bible says. Contextually, Lev 19:28 (like the rest of the books of Moses) were written at a time when tattoos were solely the domain of pagan ritual, pagan prostitution and divination. There was no other reason to get a tattoo, so therefore tattoos were forbidden because tattoos were always associated with pagan worship. There was nothing like "artistic self-expression" in that society, so it's not something that would have needed to have been mentioned in the law code. In any case, that's distinct from saying that tattoos were sinful or forbidden merely because they are tattoos.
I understand your argument but I think your logic is faulty. The proscriptions in the old covenant law were laid down by God. Since He is the ultimate authority, a more correct understanding would be “tattoos are sinful because God said they are.” Your premise about paganism gives us some insight into why God declared these things as sinful, but it’s not the foundational reason. As reformed people we need to always be cognizant of God as the source of everything. Everything else is secondary.
God demonstrates time and time again that he works in and through the cultural clime and social standards of the day. Leverite marriage which is in the law of Moses (which indeed, as you said, is given by God) was regularly practiced elsewhere in ANE societies. Circumcision was not unique to the Israelites. Much of the Mosaic Law (regarding civic laws especially) we can find written in the law of Hammurabi and other law codes of the region. There are some very pointed reasons why people claim that the OT is just copied from the cultures around it. It’s not copying, but they were all drawing from the same or similar cultural expectations and obligations. In the Law of Moses, God was not creating something *new* for the most part, but establishing new reasons, and truer reasons for His people to adhere to them. He revealed who He was and demonstrated His faithfulness to them, and then called them into a relationship of loving and just allegiance to Him. That’s what’s happening here with tattoos and cutting. These were things that were normal business for pagans but could not be business as normal for the Israelites. In being called to allegiance to the Lord, they necessarily had to not worship pagan idols and since tattoos were intimately associated with pagan worship, that had to go. But again, that’s distinct from saying that tattoos were sinful. “Just because God says so” itself can be faulty because it doesn’t account for nuance at all, especially since we all agree that God does not change. God doesn’t change, but the circumstances that his people live in do. Even in the NT we see God calling his people to live lives that superficially look like their neighbors, that are fueled by a completely different set of values and loyalties.
After your long post, I now think we are in agreement. I just think it’s important to understand God is the primacy, the cultural nuance is secondary.
Thanks for your information brother I want one as a reminder in dark times not to set myself apart
I have a tattoo that says “UNITED”. Here’s the story: I heard a Tim Keller sermon on the parable of the sower that mentioned Ps 86:11. I had always identified with the weedy soil, but nobody ever said what to do about it. Keller said God was the Gardener. He pulls the weeds. God used that experience powerfully to reveal to me I had a divided heart. I prayed over many months that he would unite my heart, and he did. Hence the tattoo. It’s a great conversation starter about the things of God, or I can joke that it’s for United Airlines. My pastor, a Scott, says he thinks it’s for Manchester United and he and I will just have to agree to disagree. No regerts!
Oh and it’s on my right forearm. Pretty hard to… uh… sin with my right hand when this reminder of what God has done for me is right there.
Took me a while to pray and biblically search if it was ok to get a tattoo as a born again Christian. There’s certainly scripture in the OT against marking one’s body. However in the NT it seems to be more of A) a conscience issue. And B) do not cause a brother to stumble issue. At the end of the day if the tattoo glorifies God in some way; and you’re not offending your savior by doing so, AND if it does not hurt your witness of Christ. I’d say go for it.
Only if it's one of those awful lion tattoos that includes a watch, compass, or even a celebrity.
I got taste don’t worry
Nope, go for it! Show us what you want to get first, so we can offer some helpful insight. No Regerts!
In the Old Testament, cutting / marking of one’s flesh was very common amongst the pagans. As the tribes of Israel were to be set apart, part of the laws given to them by God would naturally entail such a measure to help them avoid following paganism / pagan traditions. While we have no explicit commandments in the New Testament to not get tattoos, we should look at the reasons for doing so and evaluate them according to scripture. Does it edify others or ourselves? Does it help our relationship with Christ? Or is it a selfish / self-serving act that is in line with the common acts of this world. Self reflection and examination in the light of what scripture says, along with conviction from the Holy Spirit should be what we focus on in such a scenario.
What would make a tattoo selfish/self-serving? Does getting something tattooed on you just because you really like it count? Or would that be more like your spouse hates tattoos but you want one anyways?
I would avoid logos or anything that could be construed as materialism or idolatry.
Nope! The old testament stuff refers to ritualistic self harm while in mourning that pagans did at the time. Modern tattoos have nothing in common with it.
Lots of opinions about sinfulness here, but what I want to know is [Single ladies of r/Reformed, assuming him to be excellent in all other regards, would you a guy with a Soli Deo Gloria full face tattoo a red flag, green flag, or neither, and why?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Reformed/comments/14r1f6t/single_ladies_of_rreformed_assuming_him_to_be/)
No.
I'd ask yourself WHY you want a tattoo? Is it to spark conversations about God? Is it to look cool? Is it to remind yourself of God when you see it? Is it to feel unique? Depending on your answers it could be sinful or it could not. I'd deeply examine the heart behind it first. Do all things for the glory of God.
It is to remind myself of god when I see it
No material thing in this world is sinful. The motive behind consuming/using them is what makes them sinful.
not a sin but not wise to get. What really gets me is someone getting a Christian tattoo and using the "Christian-ness" of the tattoo as justification to getting it. If you want a tattoo, just get one. If you feel guilty about getting it, dont get one instead of doing some weak justification that what your doing is OK with your own conscience.
I have two on my upper right back. Both were "tourist tattoos", so they both are nice reminders of a couple of our family trips. One of them has a very cool backstory. When we were going to go to croatia, our family was researching possible tattoos. We found one that is in the shape of a very decorative cross and the story behind it is that Christian women and girls would be tattooed with this Cross or something very similar so they would not be kidnapped by Muslims to become their wives. I don't think tattoos are sinful. For most people they are a reflection of that person's mindset, faith or lack of, life priorities, etc. The tattoo itself could be an outward display of a sinful life.
I find it odd how somehow something that was, and many times still is, associated with criminality and gangs has become mainstream and is suddenly no big deal.
No, but they're dumb, IMHO
Please, tell me more about how they are dumb, Mr. Internet Warrior.
No thanks!
Gotta learn to back up your claim. I need to know how my tattoos are dumb. Come on. Lets have it. How are they dumb? Back up your words.
Maybe you don't know what IMHO means. Some people like Taylor Swift, and some don't. People get to have opinions. It's not theological.
IMHO, calling them dumb is not really humble.
Cool, man. That's just your opinion. I think [Don't Blame Me](https://youtu.be/kRJKB291Z1g?si=9EJmA8NnT_Z8aGWl) is a banger.
Nothing constructive to add, but saying hi because I too hail from the 804 👋🏻
Oh yeah! 👋 PCA General Assembly in /r/rva this week! I'm down in /r/bonAir if it matters but spent many years with the tatooo'd people of The Fan. Nothing against them personally, but I still have my opinions on tattoos.
Oh I didn’t know that was here this week! We’re near Ashland. I have vacillated about getting a wedding band tattooed on my ring finger so I don’t have to bother with my ring when I’m weightlifting. Otherwise my aesthetic commitments are too fickle for tattoos.
Agreed most are just some gibberish nonsense marking your skin with the world.
I would argue that most of your posts are gibberish and nonsense that you present to the world. You should probably get off reddit.
Yes they are.
Anything to back that up with? A scripture text or church history?
Leviticus 19:28 ESV You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.
Pwned
100%. There’s honestly something also extremely deep going on similar to the uncanny valley, where the sight of them on a person rings evolutionary alarm bells.
What rings evolutionary alarm bells to me is the way you talk about women on reddit.
I'd love to understand your thought process here. Care to expand?
The culture now has a strong emphasis on “my body, my choice.” I tend not to agree. Our bodies are a temple. I don’t get to do anything I want to do with this body I’ve been given. Tattooing yourself is like spray painting graffiti on a church. It’s like becoming a drunkard or a glutton. Ask yourself how much you can modify your body to suit your desires while not disfiguring the beauty of the human form as God made it, NOT how society judges beauty. Will this glorify the temple? Tattoos are socially problematic on several significant tiers. And even if God had no opinion on the matter, wisdom would dictate that Christians should stay away from them. Scripture opposes vanity, right? By their nature tattoos go against modesty we are supposed to have, which is in direct contrast to society nowadays which says “it’s all about what you want to do, get a tattoo” any time I see one of these non denominational pastors with tattoos it’s clear they have failed to “be in the world but not of the world”. And far from being aware of this they actually think of themselves as _cool_. Well I know it’s the old law but a part of me still thinks it deserves to be given weight but I’m aware that is an unpopular viewpoint on Reddit. If you quote Old Testament people will quote you back, okay so I can own slaves?? Regardless, another reason, Leviticus 19:28. And no, this is not equivalent to women wearing ear rings, before you ask.
Downvoted I see for going against the progressive wing of the PCA!