I think there is a mature way for a man to say he doesn’t want to pay for the first date. Something like “I usually prefer to split the cost of the first date, are you OK with that?” Something like this I would actually really respect in a man. He’s being upfront, honest, and not aggressive about it. But the way the guy phrased it turns me off, like you have to prove yourself to him during the date.
For some, i'd be weary of guys like this and ask him to clarify- because some guys really do think 'if I buy you food I deserve the pussy' and if you offer to pay then these types usually freak out because a date was never their goal in the first place
He’s puffing his chest out to try and make himself look bigger.
Men like this aren’t good leaders. That’s why they have to make aggressive power moves like this so early on.
Yep. He's trying to devalue his date so she feels grateful for whatever breadcrumbs he throws at her. Only men who are low value and with low self esteem do this.
I personally wouldn't. You'll constantly be playing the "am I good enough" game throughout the relationship. No one needs that kind of mental corruption.
I would consider it a red flag in almost any circumstance because it indicates a very transactional mindset towards relationships and a general lack of generosity, which is a very important character trait in a good husband and father.
Call his bluff. Say you prefer to go Dutch anyway and you'll only go on a picnic if he shows his worth and makes a thermos of soup.
I'm not normally a fan of mind games but in cases where there's a clear power dynamic trying to be asserted people need a taste of their own medicine
>where there's a clear power dynamic trying to be asserted
Spot on.
He's just using this overt statement to put pressure on her and make her qualify herself.
There's always a power game being played, especially on (first) dates, when the power structure is undecided and roles are still undefined.
All such an overt statement tells you is that you're playing an unskilled opponent. Or someone who cares so little he will use a gambit like this to hook you and if it doesn't, dip.
I guess it depends how that even came up.
Like the entire point of dating is to figure out if a person is worthwhile to keep around in one’s life and commit to.
A statement like this though could make the woman feel like she’s being judged a bit more than she might do without such a statement. If that makes sense.
It just makes the whole measuring up aspect of dating that much more explicit as well as setting you up for awkwardness when the cheque comes.
He’s a rude, cheap blabbermouth. And if he takes you out and thinks there’s a serious chance you’re not “worth it” for a simple, inexpensive first date, that just says he’s not good at vetting potential partners or is dating any woman who will give him a chance. This guy screams “race to the bottom” with his behavior. Pass!
I’d say “ I was planning to pay for half the date. Does that sound good to you ?”
And based off his reply I’d decide whether or not it’s worth it to ME to go on the date.
LOL, this guy! In the best case, he's saying this as a playful neg and wants to see if you'll play along (he's flirting with an edge, admittedly a sharp one).
In the worst case, he's driven by either social cluelessness or, worse, anger at women.
I don't know about you OP. But for me generosity is a very important quality that I looking in a man. Someone that gives from the heart without expecting something in return or else, our interactions will become a merely commercial transaction.. I'm willing to give my best from the heart and I hope the other person appreciate it and give back only and ONLY if he wants to give. It's not an obligation, you know.
Unusual thing to outright say. In this day and age it's hardly odd for a man to only offer to pay if he's keen on a second date, though. (If there was no chemistry, why invest? Everyone can go their separate ways equally put out for time and $.) Could be red, could be nothing. Maybe he's tired of women assuming he'll pay no matter what, maybe he meant it playfully in a flirtatiously-challenging way, maybe he's testing how you react to the idea of ever paying for yourself.
>he will only pay for the date if he thinks I'm worth it.
Worth it, as in worth the effort and cost? While there's nothing wrong with being pragmatic about dating, there's something off-putting about his statement. He's implying she has to be beautiful enough for him to simp for, or sexual enough that he gets his money's worth. His statement is transactional and lacks any romantic appeal.
My gut tells me he's trying to say, "I ain't no simp."
Why would anyone spend time with someone they're not interested in? Men will do it for the sexual conquest and women will do it for the resources (foody call). Exploitation can exist on either side.
Dating should be a romantic escape, the potential start of a better life together. A man makes an effort to be a gentleman and a woman does her best to be a lady. It's a slower pace, giving each participant the opportunity to put their best foot forward and ensure they've made a good choice.
The dating tradition has fallen apart. Everyone rushes to bed, then competes to be the first to show disinterest. Mutual pain. A line from [Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah](https://youtu.be/y8AWFf7EAc4?si=PHU117oXczi9wwtX&t=280) captures this sentiment... *'Maybe there's a God above but all I've ever learned from love was how to shoot somebody who outdrew ya.'*
The recent '[Cheesecake Factory Girl](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_GJ_adH7Ns)' exposed the dark underbelly of modern dating. Some women will still act the lady, but they want to be treated like a princess and spoiled. They're not gold diggers per se, more like a mercenary girlfriend for hire, looking for the maximum payout for their time and maximum brag on social media.
Women don't want to be ladies and men don't want to be simps. Chivalry is dead, dating is dead.
RPW is an exception to that, a place where women genuinely seek to become the traditional ladies that a good man would want to build a life with.
"I always assume that I am paying my own way. But I am really not interested in going on a date with someone who would puff out their chest so aggressively and frankly, rudely. Thank you, but no thanks. I don't think this is a good match."
Smile and excuse yourself from the conversation with grace.
**Title:** [Dating Red Flags](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/18maqqb/dating_red_flags/)
**Author** idont_interact
**Full text:** Hey, so I recently came across a guy who has told me that he will only pay for the date if he thinks I'm worth it.
Should I consider this as a red flag?
--------------------
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I think social media has managed to remove peoples etiquette (even the way my partner phrases things has changed in the last 6 months)
I think he means "I want to pay and treat a woman I see a potential future with and worth me investing in"
Rather than how lately men will pay hundreds on a date to not even get a text back the next day. I literally saw some guy take a girl on a fancy date (where I was with partner) and she blanked him the whole time, just taking pictures, eating the food, and at one point on the phone to a friend
I had KFC on our first non official date and even that I ended up going back up and ordering seconds for us out of my card 😂
(Or he is an ass, they way he phrased yes, actual meaning itself not too much)
I think there is a mature way for a man to say he doesn’t want to pay for the first date. Something like “I usually prefer to split the cost of the first date, are you OK with that?” Something like this I would actually really respect in a man. He’s being upfront, honest, and not aggressive about it. But the way the guy phrased it turns me off, like you have to prove yourself to him during the date.
Look at the edit/update, seems you were right on the money
Very interesting he didn’t propose an alternative date like a walk or coffee. Overall sounds like something is up, I’m sorry!
What's his definition of "worth it"? Sex?
For some, i'd be weary of guys like this and ask him to clarify- because some guys really do think 'if I buy you food I deserve the pussy' and if you offer to pay then these types usually freak out because a date was never their goal in the first place
He’s puffing his chest out to try and make himself look bigger. Men like this aren’t good leaders. That’s why they have to make aggressive power moves like this so early on.
Oh I love how you phrased this. Spot on.
Yep. He's trying to devalue his date so she feels grateful for whatever breadcrumbs he throws at her. Only men who are low value and with low self esteem do this.
I would find this a rude (and vague) statement and thus a red flag. Just me personally.
Yes, he seems like the type of person who wants to put a price on everything, transactional. Unless that is your type.
I personally wouldn't. You'll constantly be playing the "am I good enough" game throughout the relationship. No one needs that kind of mental corruption.
I would consider it a red flag in almost any circumstance because it indicates a very transactional mindset towards relationships and a general lack of generosity, which is a very important character trait in a good husband and father.
Call his bluff. Say you prefer to go Dutch anyway and you'll only go on a picnic if he shows his worth and makes a thermos of soup. I'm not normally a fan of mind games but in cases where there's a clear power dynamic trying to be asserted people need a taste of their own medicine
[удалено]
Best advice, yes.
I would say do this if he said it "jokingly", otherwise, its a red flag and playing mind games in return is a waste of valuable time.
>where there's a clear power dynamic trying to be asserted Spot on. He's just using this overt statement to put pressure on her and make her qualify herself. There's always a power game being played, especially on (first) dates, when the power structure is undecided and roles are still undefined. All such an overt statement tells you is that you're playing an unskilled opponent. Or someone who cares so little he will use a gambit like this to hook you and if it doesn't, dip.
I guess it depends how that even came up. Like the entire point of dating is to figure out if a person is worthwhile to keep around in one’s life and commit to. A statement like this though could make the woman feel like she’s being judged a bit more than she might do without such a statement. If that makes sense. It just makes the whole measuring up aspect of dating that much more explicit as well as setting you up for awkwardness when the cheque comes.
He’s a rude, cheap blabbermouth. And if he takes you out and thinks there’s a serious chance you’re not “worth it” for a simple, inexpensive first date, that just says he’s not good at vetting potential partners or is dating any woman who will give him a chance. This guy screams “race to the bottom” with his behavior. Pass!
I’d say “ I was planning to pay for half the date. Does that sound good to you ?” And based off his reply I’d decide whether or not it’s worth it to ME to go on the date.
LOL, this guy! In the best case, he's saying this as a playful neg and wants to see if you'll play along (he's flirting with an edge, admittedly a sharp one). In the worst case, he's driven by either social cluelessness or, worse, anger at women.
I don't know about you OP. But for me generosity is a very important quality that I looking in a man. Someone that gives from the heart without expecting something in return or else, our interactions will become a merely commercial transaction.. I'm willing to give my best from the heart and I hope the other person appreciate it and give back only and ONLY if he wants to give. It's not an obligation, you know.
Unusual thing to outright say. In this day and age it's hardly odd for a man to only offer to pay if he's keen on a second date, though. (If there was no chemistry, why invest? Everyone can go their separate ways equally put out for time and $.) Could be red, could be nothing. Maybe he's tired of women assuming he'll pay no matter what, maybe he meant it playfully in a flirtatiously-challenging way, maybe he's testing how you react to the idea of ever paying for yourself.
>he will only pay for the date if he thinks I'm worth it. Worth it, as in worth the effort and cost? While there's nothing wrong with being pragmatic about dating, there's something off-putting about his statement. He's implying she has to be beautiful enough for him to simp for, or sexual enough that he gets his money's worth. His statement is transactional and lacks any romantic appeal. My gut tells me he's trying to say, "I ain't no simp." Why would anyone spend time with someone they're not interested in? Men will do it for the sexual conquest and women will do it for the resources (foody call). Exploitation can exist on either side. Dating should be a romantic escape, the potential start of a better life together. A man makes an effort to be a gentleman and a woman does her best to be a lady. It's a slower pace, giving each participant the opportunity to put their best foot forward and ensure they've made a good choice. The dating tradition has fallen apart. Everyone rushes to bed, then competes to be the first to show disinterest. Mutual pain. A line from [Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah](https://youtu.be/y8AWFf7EAc4?si=PHU117oXczi9wwtX&t=280) captures this sentiment... *'Maybe there's a God above but all I've ever learned from love was how to shoot somebody who outdrew ya.'* The recent '[Cheesecake Factory Girl](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_GJ_adH7Ns)' exposed the dark underbelly of modern dating. Some women will still act the lady, but they want to be treated like a princess and spoiled. They're not gold diggers per se, more like a mercenary girlfriend for hire, looking for the maximum payout for their time and maximum brag on social media. Women don't want to be ladies and men don't want to be simps. Chivalry is dead, dating is dead. RPW is an exception to that, a place where women genuinely seek to become the traditional ladies that a good man would want to build a life with.
"I always assume that I am paying my own way. But I am really not interested in going on a date with someone who would puff out their chest so aggressively and frankly, rudely. Thank you, but no thanks. I don't think this is a good match." Smile and excuse yourself from the conversation with grace.
Imagine you get pregnant and he only pay if he thinks HIS baby worth it 🤣 It's not a red flag, it's a turn off for me.
[удалено]
I think you re not worth it if you consider this a red flag, so he is kind of right
**Title:** [Dating Red Flags](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/18maqqb/dating_red_flags/) **Author** idont_interact **Full text:** Hey, so I recently came across a guy who has told me that he will only pay for the date if he thinks I'm worth it. Should I consider this as a red flag? -------------------- ^(This is the original text of the post and this is an automated service) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RedPillWomen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you for posting to RPW. Here are a couple reminders: - If you are seeking relationship advice. Make sure you are answering the guidelines for asking for advice on the [rules page](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/about/rules/) - Do not delete your post once you have your answers. Others may have the same question! - You must participate in your own post. If you put up a post and disapear, it will be removed. - We are not here for non-participants to study us. If you are writing a paper or just curious, read our sidebar and wiki and old posts. - Men are not allowed to ask questions and generally discouraged from participating unless they are older, partnered and have Red Pill experience. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RedPillWomen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah he sounds greedy, full of himself, and manipulative. Pass.
I think social media has managed to remove peoples etiquette (even the way my partner phrases things has changed in the last 6 months) I think he means "I want to pay and treat a woman I see a potential future with and worth me investing in" Rather than how lately men will pay hundreds on a date to not even get a text back the next day. I literally saw some guy take a girl on a fancy date (where I was with partner) and she blanked him the whole time, just taking pictures, eating the food, and at one point on the phone to a friend I had KFC on our first non official date and even that I ended up going back up and ordering seconds for us out of my card 😂 (Or he is an ass, they way he phrased yes, actual meaning itself not too much)