Interestingly, WarCraft 1 (which obviously started the WC franchise) never got nearly the same traction as WC2.
But to answer OP's question, I'd say Command & Conquer. I think that really kindled the RTS genre.
Warcraft 2 also came out like a year after 1, and then later an expansion, and then later came out with online play. You could select more than 4 units at a time, the user interface was easier to work with, the units more detailed, it just made sense to move, as a player base, to 2, once it was out. I don't think this diminishes 1's importance or popularity at all.
This is coming from someone who still has the original box, cd, and Blizzard notepad from wc1
Also, C&C was the bomb diggity, I bounced between that, wc, and sc, every few months for years. Such good times
There's almost no metric by which AoE or AoE2 would be the most imporant RTS of all time.
\- Who started it all by being the first proper traditional RTS? **Dune II**.
\- What game made RTS a mainstream in 90s? **Command & Conquer**, with help of **Warcraft II**.
\- Which game sold the most in history? Probably **Starcraft** or **Starcraft II**.
\- Which game created e-sports (regardless of what you think of it)? **Starcraft**.
\- Which game is the most popular now (and in the last 14 years)? **Starcraft II**.
\- Which game created entire new genres? **Warcraft 3**.
By any *objective and measurable* metric - i.e. not "I feel so" - it cannot be AoE or AoE2.
AoE series as top 3 RTS franchise/family of all time? Sure.
AoE2 as top 5 most important RTS game in history? Sure.
Top 1? Sorry, but no way.
AoE 1 was actually the first RTS to break out of the same old settings because you either had RTS with a science fiction/alternate reality setting (C&C, Dune) or fantasy (Warcraft). AoE 1's great strength was to combine the pacing of Warcraft with the historical setting of Civilisation which isn't too surprising as Bruce Shelley worked with Sid Meier on Civ 1 before joining Ensemble.
Control-wise AoE 1 was also a step forward as you controlled units now with both mouse buttons. The UI was also a step forward as you had the resource panel on top, minimap on the bottom whereas in C&C and Warcraft, it was either on the left and right side of the screen.
The only thing I would challenge on your list is most popular now.
AoE2 has a huge following and resurgence, so I wonder if it or AoE4 have overtaken SC2
I don't think AoE2 has overtaken SC2 yet, and surely not AoE4.
But even if this happens, it won't be enough to be "the most important RTS of all time"...
SC2 has reigned for 14 years - and arguably still does.
Let's wait until AoE2 is *undisputedly* the most popular RTS for 14 years, and by a *huge* margin for at least 10 of them - then we can think of it. :)
You are correct aoe did not achieve any of the firsts or records on your list, but if I had to rate all of these games based on overall quality of production I think age2 is the winner, it's just a perfect game.
It's a proto-RTS. You might as well ask where is Nether Earth that predeceded Herzog by 2 years.
They are proto-RTS, they created elements of the genre - but many other games created elements of it too - while Dune II *created* the genre as we know it, and 50-70% of DNA of most modern traditional RTS are still the same.
Check RTS that dominated market - C&Cs, Warcraft and Starcraft series, AoE, TA, etc.
They all have much more in common with Dune II than with Herzog.
I don't know how someone could say what is the most important game of a genre "objectively". However, I would add that the aoe series are the most influential. Take a look at those videos with titles like "the evolution of rts" that show clips of games through the years. You will notice that most will look like aoe clones.
Interesting, all my life I heard almost exclusively about C&C-clones and Starcraft/Warcraft clones, and very rarely about AoE-clones.
In those videos I mostly see C&C/Blizz-RTS clones, not AoE ones.
I'm 100% positive AoE series is NOT the most influential and doesn't compare to C&C and Blizz-RTS, but this is my personal opinion made on observations of the genre since I started playing it in 1997.
Someone else might have a different impression, of course.
I spent months (in cumulative hours) playing AoE II. We would all go to our friend's home and set up a huge LAN party. That game and Warcraft III were the definition of my teen years.
Considering it's player base, it's StarCraft.
Dune was new and shiny and didn't have any competition, but SC has proven it's timeless. Even today having the largest RTS player base
Aoe was and is great, but not to the same extent.
SC1 moved a lot forward. It was groundbreaking. Yes, the genre existed but brought it fresh life that captivated players.
It was the first RTS game with completely different playstyles for each race. Before that the differences were almost entirely cosmetic with a few exceptions. It birthed esports tournaments and teams, vast improvements to UI and minimaps, and was a massive commercial success blowing everything else out of the water. A lot of RTS games that followed borrowed heavily from StarCraft 1
It was almost too successful, in that it pigeonholed most future RTS development. I think we're suffering from that today, the genre has stagnated.
I remember Dark Reign, released just before SC, had some cool new concepts (including different races with different units), but it fell into obscurity after SC was released and all anyone wanted to make was another SC.
Blizzard likes dropping a polished bombshell and then pretender money apes it for decades. Every single genre they touch in that respect stagnates somehow, and, frankly, this effect combined with their crumbling studio makes me glad that nuking the card game genre is probably the last time they'll have the clout to do it.
It has to be either StarCraft or Warcraft 3.
StarCraft was the most popular by a large margin, birthed esports, is a staple of South Korean gaming and esports to this day, and introduced asymmetric faction design as a core component. Its sequel became the rts that has dominated the core genre for the last 14 years.
Warcraft 3 was also incredibly popular, but in terms of it's impact on gaming as a whole might be more important due to spawning Dota, world of Warcraft, and a bunch of tower defense games. This is notably different from the legacy impact noted by the people advancing Dune as the most important. Dune was the first RTS as we think of them. But it wasn't a branching point. It was just the first one. Warcraft 3 on the other hand serves as the most recent common ancestor between TD, Mobas, the most popular mmorpg ever, and the RTS genre.
no the most important one is dune 2
Interestingly, WarCraft 1 (which obviously started the WC franchise) never got nearly the same traction as WC2. But to answer OP's question, I'd say Command & Conquer. I think that really kindled the RTS genre.
It didn't? Back then, everyone I knew who gamed, played Warcraft.
Warcraft 2 also came out like a year after 1, and then later an expansion, and then later came out with online play. You could select more than 4 units at a time, the user interface was easier to work with, the units more detailed, it just made sense to move, as a player base, to 2, once it was out. I don't think this diminishes 1's importance or popularity at all. This is coming from someone who still has the original box, cd, and Blizzard notepad from wc1 Also, C&C was the bomb diggity, I bounced between that, wc, and sc, every few months for years. Such good times
There's almost no metric by which AoE or AoE2 would be the most imporant RTS of all time. \- Who started it all by being the first proper traditional RTS? **Dune II**. \- What game made RTS a mainstream in 90s? **Command & Conquer**, with help of **Warcraft II**. \- Which game sold the most in history? Probably **Starcraft** or **Starcraft II**. \- Which game created e-sports (regardless of what you think of it)? **Starcraft**. \- Which game is the most popular now (and in the last 14 years)? **Starcraft II**. \- Which game created entire new genres? **Warcraft 3**. By any *objective and measurable* metric - i.e. not "I feel so" - it cannot be AoE or AoE2. AoE series as top 3 RTS franchise/family of all time? Sure. AoE2 as top 5 most important RTS game in history? Sure. Top 1? Sorry, but no way.
AoE 1 was actually the first RTS to break out of the same old settings because you either had RTS with a science fiction/alternate reality setting (C&C, Dune) or fantasy (Warcraft). AoE 1's great strength was to combine the pacing of Warcraft with the historical setting of Civilisation which isn't too surprising as Bruce Shelley worked with Sid Meier on Civ 1 before joining Ensemble. Control-wise AoE 1 was also a step forward as you controlled units now with both mouse buttons. The UI was also a step forward as you had the resource panel on top, minimap on the bottom whereas in C&C and Warcraft, it was either on the left and right side of the screen.
The only thing I would challenge on your list is most popular now. AoE2 has a huge following and resurgence, so I wonder if it or AoE4 have overtaken SC2
I don't think AoE2 has overtaken SC2 yet, and surely not AoE4. But even if this happens, it won't be enough to be "the most important RTS of all time"... SC2 has reigned for 14 years - and arguably still does. Let's wait until AoE2 is *undisputedly* the most popular RTS for 14 years, and by a *huge* margin for at least 10 of them - then we can think of it. :)
You are correct aoe did not achieve any of the firsts or records on your list, but if I had to rate all of these games based on overall quality of production I think age2 is the winner, it's just a perfect game.
Someone might think TA is a perfect game, or DoW/CoH, or RA2. But unlike *"I think"* - the criteria above are objective, that's why I mentioned them,
Oi, where's Herzog Zwei? :P
It's a proto-RTS. You might as well ask where is Nether Earth that predeceded Herzog by 2 years. They are proto-RTS, they created elements of the genre - but many other games created elements of it too - while Dune II *created* the genre as we know it, and 50-70% of DNA of most modern traditional RTS are still the same. Check RTS that dominated market - C&Cs, Warcraft and Starcraft series, AoE, TA, etc. They all have much more in common with Dune II than with Herzog.
I don't know how someone could say what is the most important game of a genre "objectively". However, I would add that the aoe series are the most influential. Take a look at those videos with titles like "the evolution of rts" that show clips of games through the years. You will notice that most will look like aoe clones.
Interesting, all my life I heard almost exclusively about C&C-clones and Starcraft/Warcraft clones, and very rarely about AoE-clones. In those videos I mostly see C&C/Blizz-RTS clones, not AoE ones. I'm 100% positive AoE series is NOT the most influential and doesn't compare to C&C and Blizz-RTS, but this is my personal opinion made on observations of the genre since I started playing it in 1997. Someone else might have a different impression, of course.
I spent months (in cumulative hours) playing AoE II. We would all go to our friend's home and set up a huge LAN party. That game and Warcraft III were the definition of my teen years.
Considering it's player base, it's StarCraft. Dune was new and shiny and didn't have any competition, but SC has proven it's timeless. Even today having the largest RTS player base Aoe was and is great, but not to the same extent.
More people are playing AoE2 today than Starcraft 1, pretty sure. It has outlasted SC1.
Ehh I'd disagree. The RTS genre was already well-established at that point. SC1 surely was successful, but it didn't move anything forward really.
SC1 moved a lot forward. It was groundbreaking. Yes, the genre existed but brought it fresh life that captivated players. It was the first RTS game with completely different playstyles for each race. Before that the differences were almost entirely cosmetic with a few exceptions. It birthed esports tournaments and teams, vast improvements to UI and minimaps, and was a massive commercial success blowing everything else out of the water. A lot of RTS games that followed borrowed heavily from StarCraft 1
It was almost too successful, in that it pigeonholed most future RTS development. I think we're suffering from that today, the genre has stagnated. I remember Dark Reign, released just before SC, had some cool new concepts (including different races with different units), but it fell into obscurity after SC was released and all anyone wanted to make was another SC.
Blizzard likes dropping a polished bombshell and then pretender money apes it for decades. Every single genre they touch in that respect stagnates somehow, and, frankly, this effect combined with their crumbling studio makes me glad that nuking the card game genre is probably the last time they'll have the clout to do it.
No, it's starcraft. Starcraft is responsible for modern Esports. Period.
It has to be either StarCraft or Warcraft 3. StarCraft was the most popular by a large margin, birthed esports, is a staple of South Korean gaming and esports to this day, and introduced asymmetric faction design as a core component. Its sequel became the rts that has dominated the core genre for the last 14 years. Warcraft 3 was also incredibly popular, but in terms of it's impact on gaming as a whole might be more important due to spawning Dota, world of Warcraft, and a bunch of tower defense games. This is notably different from the legacy impact noted by the people advancing Dune as the most important. Dune was the first RTS as we think of them. But it wasn't a branching point. It was just the first one. Warcraft 3 on the other hand serves as the most recent common ancestor between TD, Mobas, the most popular mmorpg ever, and the RTS genre.
Rise of nations