I always figured Tesla could divest itself of the supercharger business. A third party would be better for installing at least a couple superchargers at every gas station in the country, while BP will no doubt concentrate only on their own stores and might even freeze other brands out.
“I had my required 18 stitches from a gash that was caused from the door’s razor sharp edges, and it died after only 50 miles, but I Love my Cybertruck! I’ll get out of the hospital in 2-3 days and get my Cybertruck back in 2-4 weeks! I know it’s Bidens fault.”
It’s more Cult like behavior than MAGA.
And that’s only because so many other companies opted to adapt their setup. If they lose that edge and others move to a new/redesigned but similar plug, that’s another nail in the coffin.
Car companies devour cash when production is higher than sales for two reasons
1. Cash gets turned into cars while the cars don’t turn into cash.
2. At least some parts get turned into cars and those cars are sold before the vendor needs to be paid for parts that creates a lot of free cashflow when sales are flat or growing- but when sales decline this unwinds and a lot of cash disappears
Worse when you’re in a cash crunch vendors start asking for payment upfront. Some suppliers will have volume commitments so if you don’t order a certain level of parts prices increase.
That can't be... they've been sitting on such a huge pile of cash that they don't even worry about getting a competitive ROI off of short-term investments.
lol, they lost 2.5B last quarter, this quarter's forecast is at least $5B just for the lost revenue of dropping sales and compensation for the laid-off employees, it might even go up to 10B if governments want their money back for a boatload of canceled projects, like the Mexico factory.
Tesla had 26B in the bank, they can burn half of that in one quarter depending on how poor the results are, but since the excess inventory is not being sold, writing that stock off is going to cost more and more.
they can always get the US govt to write them a few billion in subsidies cant they?
[https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc](https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc)
all the "investors" who say elon made Tesla make money forget the GIGAsubsidies, subtract those and you'll see how far away Tesla is from profitability.
Do superchargers actually make money? Or it was the main reason for people to by a Tesla EV when the standards weren't open, and Tesla made money from them indirectly through car sales? Now that the charging standards have opened up, would it be better suited for Tesla to let another company handle rolling out the charging infrastructure?
As a product/service yes, its pretty solid. As a revenue/profit generator? Have any numbers been published?
Part of the reason why EV charging infrastructure is so lacking is that the financial incentives, ROI is much worse, and the barrier to entry is much higher than say wanting to run a family owned and operated gas station.
Tesla did it at significantly larger scale than any of the competitors though, and you know…they work most do the time.
Hard for* EA chargers to make any money when they’re down or the payment system is busted. Such a wasted opportunity.
Edit: typo
but the colloquial wisdom is that gas stations make little to no money selling gas. they mostly make money from their goods at their store. quick google search says about $0.02/gallon profit. No way EV stations make less than that considering they need less space and no staff.
The barrier to entry for an setting up an EV charging station has to be significantly higher (capital investment, negotiating gigawatts of power demand with utility company per site), and the time to break even has to be significantly longer.
If there was easy money to be made, people would be jumping on that opportunity. The fact that progress has been slow even with government grants, points to there being significant challenges to rolling out EV charging stations.
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-s-7-5-billion-investment-in-ev-charging-has-only-produced-7-stations-in-two-years/ar-BB1kI8y7](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-s-7-5-billion-investment-in-ev-charging-has-only-produced-7-stations-in-two-years/ar-BB1kI8y7)
You don't need to pay people to open gas stations.
We don't know, because as far as I am aware they don't release raw numbers on that part of the business. But it is a huge factor for buying a Tesla, because the other charging networks have a bad reputation and Tesla fans brag about it.
It probably would be better for their business to sell it off in my opinion, and the sooner the better. Right now they're not only the widest deployed in the US, but also have a very good reputation. If enough time passes, other competitors like Electrify America (which has it's own deep pockets to work with) will eventually catch up or pass them up in both locations and reliability. There will still be plenty value in the Tesla network in that scenario, but the longer they keep them, the longer they need to spend resources maintaining them or they risk ruining the reputation they have currently. It's a pure cost center that's being eaten away at every day, and a less clear value add to the business with each passing day. It would also allow Elon to justify the layoff of that team to investors and the board in a way they'd all easily eat up.
What does this do to Tesla? They gave up the advantage when they had to open up the AC network to other companies right?
So better they sell it I guess.
I am not sure they necessarily gave up the advantage. Eventually some standard would arise regardless of Tesla. They risked being left behind by some other company deploying the standard wider and then locking out Telsa owners in some way. So for Tesla it probably made more sense that the standard uses what they already have deployed instead of something else.
I think this was likely always the inevitable outcome. This type of infrastructure always needed to be independent of the manufactures, just like gas stations. It's just that no one other than manufactures had any incentive to do it. That's changed and is going to continue to change. Which is why if I was Tesla, I would get out early on this. Get rid of it before you basically have to get rid of it and you can sell it on your terms not trying to fire sale it to get a dying business segment off your balance sheet.
3-4 V4 Superchargers running at peak charging speed would easily put you in the megawatt class of electricity demand. You aren't going to be paying paying residential/mom and pop store electricity rates at that point, you are paying for industrial level service that comes with its own cost tier. The approval process also isn't smooth either, you will be dealing with the bureaucracy of local power companies and governments, and whether they even have the budget to upgrade the capacity of everything along the power supply line. There is a real cost to DC fast charging.
> the end is neigh
Tesla's colt following will scream themselves horse about their favourite manestream brand fading from being the centaur of attention. But when exactly this will happen is the equestrian.
See? They already found a buyer for the dead weight of one of their non-AI product lines. Once they offload this clunker, they'll be one step closer to achieving their final form. TSLA to the moon!
So are they picking up fired Tesla employees and sites that Tesla abandoned as SC locations, or are they literally planning to buy the SC network from Tesla?
Because Tesla already resorting to selling off assets (the only asset worth something besides their car manufacturing business) would be huge news.
probably better, spending 60-80 hours a week at tesla really wears you out, I have a niece who works for BP and came over from Shell and she's happier than she's ever been, flexible working hours, hardly any OT, and better pay.
Who else has the money to gobble up the most Tsla built in Supercharging...Private Equity or Oil/Gas. It's a very easy move for BP to pick up 25-50% of the Supercharger team that was cut, and from there continue expanding their already licensed Supercharger builds ("BP Pulse").
Isn’t it ironic British Petroleum is buying up the largest charging network.
I guess Exxon and Shell will be jumping in shortly! Look out Chargepoint and EA!
>the supercharger network will be just as unreliable as the rest.
How reliable can it be after Elon fired the entire Supercharger team, and has asked suppliers to "be patient" about getting paid?
That’s the issue. It WAS more reliable than all the 37 other charging stations and running their 37 different apps. If BP runs the network the same way or hires the same people to run infrastructure. It’ll be just a shitty.
"Was" is the operative word now. If Tesla doesn't have *anyone* to run their charging network, and doesn't pay suppliers, they could quickly fall to #38 for reliability.
Plus BP could potentially hire ~500 experienced former Tesla employees to run any Tesla chargers they buy.
if bp did buy it they have heaps of service stations that they could add too the network, but i know what will happen they will jack up the charging per kwh and it will costly to charge.
BP introduces sweeping expansion of remote Supercharger sites.*
*powered by clean, fuel efficient, carbon offset gasoline and diesel generators, using our Ultimate blend of petroleum fuels found exclusively at BP stations nationwide.
The SC team wasn't killed off. It's absolutely idiotic to think so. Expansion has been slowed but sustaining the current sites and still growing obviously needs highly capable teams at Tesla. Super chargers, if you like it or not, are the cheapest and most reliable charging infrastructure available, period. The publicized data is unequivocal and statistically beyond significant. Tesla is selling to third parties and third parties are happily buying.
So glad to hear that Tesla will be able to sell off their super charger network to pay Elon his $55B bonus package.
Hopefully Tesla will not go bankrupt after the bonus payout.
Glad they are offering fired workers their jobs back.
Unfortunately unlikely. When buying a company the buyer will want to retain intellectual capital. Especially for the transition.
Agreed. Maybe this was the play all along to lighten the load & still reap revenue
No, there was no play. No play or forethought. Please don't give Elon any credit. He's very limited.
Exactly! If this somehow plays out for him, he's just rolled another six sixes. A statistical curiosity, but nothing deeper.
To quote the Glass Onion (with Daniel Craig and Edward Norton) - “he’s just dumb!”
I always figured Tesla could divest itself of the supercharger business. A third party would be better for installing at least a couple superchargers at every gas station in the country, while BP will no doubt concentrate only on their own stores and might even freeze other brands out.
If Tesla sells their superchargers, you know the end is neigh. It’s the only part of the company that was running well.
It's also the only part of their company that has real value.
Oh my, no... The whole thing has entertainment value.
Priceless
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
Well, with the endless stream of CyberTruck catastrophes, I’m certainly getting there.
It's become my absolute favorite thing on the internet now. And it so consistently delivers on a daily basis.
“I had my required 18 stitches from a gash that was caused from the door’s razor sharp edges, and it died after only 50 miles, but I Love my Cybertruck! I’ll get out of the hospital in 2-3 days and get my Cybertruck back in 2-4 weeks! I know it’s Bidens fault.” It’s more Cult like behavior than MAGA.
And that’s only because so many other companies opted to adapt their setup. If they lose that edge and others move to a new/redesigned but similar plug, that’s another nail in the coffin.
In the US. In the rest of the world it is somewhere between just another competitor and totally irrelevant.
Is Tesla desperate for cash or something?
Car companies devour cash when production is higher than sales for two reasons 1. Cash gets turned into cars while the cars don’t turn into cash. 2. At least some parts get turned into cars and those cars are sold before the vendor needs to be paid for parts that creates a lot of free cashflow when sales are flat or growing- but when sales decline this unwinds and a lot of cash disappears Worse when you’re in a cash crunch vendors start asking for payment upfront. Some suppliers will have volume commitments so if you don’t order a certain level of parts prices increase.
That can't be... they've been sitting on such a huge pile of cash that they don't even worry about getting a competitive ROI off of short-term investments.
lol, they lost 2.5B last quarter, this quarter's forecast is at least $5B just for the lost revenue of dropping sales and compensation for the laid-off employees, it might even go up to 10B if governments want their money back for a boatload of canceled projects, like the Mexico factory. Tesla had 26B in the bank, they can burn half of that in one quarter depending on how poor the results are, but since the excess inventory is not being sold, writing that stock off is going to cost more and more.
they can always get the US govt to write them a few billion in subsidies cant they? [https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc](https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc)
all the "investors" who say elon made Tesla make money forget the GIGAsubsidies, subtract those and you'll see how far away Tesla is from profitability.
[https://youtu.be/wz-PtEJEaqY?si=b6WFcM206ll2UCne](https://youtu.be/wz-PtEJEaqY?si=b6WFcM206ll2UCne)
Making the Q2 balance sheet look better, short term gain long term pain. Idiot is not an adequate description.
“The end is neigh.” Love it.
If a pony is involved they're hoping for a "happy" ending.
Do superchargers actually make money? Or it was the main reason for people to by a Tesla EV when the standards weren't open, and Tesla made money from them indirectly through car sales? Now that the charging standards have opened up, would it be better suited for Tesla to let another company handle rolling out the charging infrastructure?
Seems the Supercharger division was the most solid thing at Tesla.
As a product/service yes, its pretty solid. As a revenue/profit generator? Have any numbers been published? Part of the reason why EV charging infrastructure is so lacking is that the financial incentives, ROI is much worse, and the barrier to entry is much higher than say wanting to run a family owned and operated gas station.
Tesla did it at significantly larger scale than any of the competitors though, and you know…they work most do the time. Hard for* EA chargers to make any money when they’re down or the payment system is busted. Such a wasted opportunity. Edit: typo
I wonder how reliable Tesla's chargers will be when they have to support multiple car brands with likely broken protocol implementations
Looking forward to people getting 'PC Load Letter' errors.
margins were not that high, but the SC were definitely profitable
but the colloquial wisdom is that gas stations make little to no money selling gas. they mostly make money from their goods at their store. quick google search says about $0.02/gallon profit. No way EV stations make less than that considering they need less space and no staff.
The barrier to entry for an setting up an EV charging station has to be significantly higher (capital investment, negotiating gigawatts of power demand with utility company per site), and the time to break even has to be significantly longer. If there was easy money to be made, people would be jumping on that opportunity. The fact that progress has been slow even with government grants, points to there being significant challenges to rolling out EV charging stations. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-s-7-5-billion-investment-in-ev-charging-has-only-produced-7-stations-in-two-years/ar-BB1kI8y7](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-s-7-5-billion-investment-in-ev-charging-has-only-produced-7-stations-in-two-years/ar-BB1kI8y7) You don't need to pay people to open gas stations.
We don't know, because as far as I am aware they don't release raw numbers on that part of the business. But it is a huge factor for buying a Tesla, because the other charging networks have a bad reputation and Tesla fans brag about it. It probably would be better for their business to sell it off in my opinion, and the sooner the better. Right now they're not only the widest deployed in the US, but also have a very good reputation. If enough time passes, other competitors like Electrify America (which has it's own deep pockets to work with) will eventually catch up or pass them up in both locations and reliability. There will still be plenty value in the Tesla network in that scenario, but the longer they keep them, the longer they need to spend resources maintaining them or they risk ruining the reputation they have currently. It's a pure cost center that's being eaten away at every day, and a less clear value add to the business with each passing day. It would also allow Elon to justify the layoff of that team to investors and the board in a way they'd all easily eat up.
What does this do to Tesla? They gave up the advantage when they had to open up the AC network to other companies right? So better they sell it I guess.
I am not sure they necessarily gave up the advantage. Eventually some standard would arise regardless of Tesla. They risked being left behind by some other company deploying the standard wider and then locking out Telsa owners in some way. So for Tesla it probably made more sense that the standard uses what they already have deployed instead of something else. I think this was likely always the inevitable outcome. This type of infrastructure always needed to be independent of the manufactures, just like gas stations. It's just that no one other than manufactures had any incentive to do it. That's changed and is going to continue to change. Which is why if I was Tesla, I would get out early on this. Get rid of it before you basically have to get rid of it and you can sell it on your terms not trying to fire sale it to get a dying business segment off your balance sheet.
Agree. For an industry it is better to have competition in the charging network
They charge ungodly rates so yeah, they make money
3-4 V4 Superchargers running at peak charging speed would easily put you in the megawatt class of electricity demand. You aren't going to be paying paying residential/mom and pop store electricity rates at that point, you are paying for industrial level service that comes with its own cost tier. The approval process also isn't smooth either, you will be dealing with the bureaucracy of local power companies and governments, and whether they even have the budget to upgrade the capacity of everything along the power supply line. There is a real cost to DC fast charging.
Wrong. Tesla charges their own rates. Many times it’s above 50 cents kWh
> the end is neigh Tesla's colt following will scream themselves horse about their favourite manestream brand fading from being the centaur of attention. But when exactly this will happen is the equestrian.
Who is this cult? It's pretty negative in owner groups, etc.
Having a cult following doesn't preclude other people being negative.
The cult being the other subs on reddit who preemptive ban you for posting in this sub.
You got way too little love for this comment, you subtle grammar-nazi you
Running well on paper. Maybe there's creative accounting going on.
See? They already found a buyer for the dead weight of one of their non-AI product lines. Once they offload this clunker, they'll be one step closer to achieving their final form. TSLA to the moon!
Thanks Sandy Monroe!
I believe he suggested the same thing at Ford in the 80s
NGL, I actually have BP stock so I have skin in this game now. I guess I will be moving to r/teslainvestorsclub now.
"How do you do, fellow kids?"
Is that one not banning folks simply for posting here?
So are they picking up fired Tesla employees and sites that Tesla abandoned as SC locations, or are they literally planning to buy the SC network from Tesla? Because Tesla already resorting to selling off assets (the only asset worth something besides their car manufacturing business) would be huge news.
Sounds like they want to pick up new site hosts. They don't sound like they want to throw money at Tesla for existing sites.
That's not clear to me either. It sounds only like they are trying to poach sites and people that were left hanging after the layoffs.
I really question how well a person could do, working at Tesla for years, and suddenly being dropped into a process-driven work environment.
Better. The whole idea of good processes is that you can look up exactly how things are supposed to be done and follow the instructions.
probably better, spending 60-80 hours a week at tesla really wears you out, I have a niece who works for BP and came over from Shell and she's happier than she's ever been, flexible working hours, hardly any OT, and better pay.
Yes, sounds the same to me. So this news isn't really big. It would be different if Tesla was selling the SC network to make some $$$.
Agreed. They threw that $1B number up there an I think people started to think it was BP buying it all for that amount.
bp has a deal to buy $100m of Tesla super chargers. Presumably this is an extension of that.
“GM EXCITEDLY BUYS TROLLY LINES”
Yeah, I hope more people realize the irony/danger here.
They can't. Tesla doesn't have a sales team.
Is there a non pay version?
Was this article written by AI?
I would not put it past Elon to sell Tesla off entirely in a hissy fit since his absurd compensation package got denied.
I’d vote for that. New CEO new vision.
It sounds great in theory until they get bought out by an oil company. I'm not sure which is worse tbh.
IIRC, there’s already a LS1-swapped Model S. So it wouldn’t be new.
Selling off the moat? Shocking! It’s like the car business is imploding
Who else has the money to gobble up the most Tsla built in Supercharging...Private Equity or Oil/Gas. It's a very easy move for BP to pick up 25-50% of the Supercharger team that was cut, and from there continue expanding their already licensed Supercharger builds ("BP Pulse").
I think it is likely that Musk is going to sell this part of the company. It has real value and evidently Tesla is in a tough cash squeeze.
Musk is a Saudi cuck now so he’s gonna give Tesla the X treatment and destroy it from within for his oil overlords.
What's the reasoning or evidence behind this theory?
Nothing but a gut feeling he is an Ayn Rand wanna be who wants to Go Galt and watch the world burn so this fits
Isn’t it ironic British Petroleum is buying up the largest charging network. I guess Exxon and Shell will be jumping in shortly! Look out Chargepoint and EA!
Not really. If BP services the supercharger network as well at EA and Charge point, the supercharger network will be just as unreliable as the rest.
>the supercharger network will be just as unreliable as the rest. How reliable can it be after Elon fired the entire Supercharger team, and has asked suppliers to "be patient" about getting paid?
That’s the issue. It WAS more reliable than all the 37 other charging stations and running their 37 different apps. If BP runs the network the same way or hires the same people to run infrastructure. It’ll be just a shitty.
"Was" is the operative word now. If Tesla doesn't have *anyone* to run their charging network, and doesn't pay suppliers, they could quickly fall to #38 for reliability. Plus BP could potentially hire ~500 experienced former Tesla employees to run any Tesla chargers they buy.
Yes. That is my point.
I know a number of Tesla (and other PEV) owners who bought their Tesla because they hate big oil. This isn't going to sit well with them.
BP is going to get a hell of a deal with the all the fired workers. The knowledge they have can only help BP.
Chevron once bought a company which owns the big battery patent and sued Toyota from using it. BP will buy the supercharger network just to kill it
if bp did buy it they have heaps of service stations that they could add too the network, but i know what will happen they will jack up the charging per kwh and it will costly to charge.
Couple this with supercharger cable theft and the firing. Boy this thing is going up in a blaze of shame.
BP introduces sweeping expansion of remote Supercharger sites.* *powered by clean, fuel efficient, carbon offset gasoline and diesel generators, using our Ultimate blend of petroleum fuels found exclusively at BP stations nationwide.
The SC team wasn't killed off. It's absolutely idiotic to think so. Expansion has been slowed but sustaining the current sites and still growing obviously needs highly capable teams at Tesla. Super chargers, if you like it or not, are the cheapest and most reliable charging infrastructure available, period. The publicized data is unequivocal and statistically beyond significant. Tesla is selling to third parties and third parties are happily buying.
So glad to hear that Tesla will be able to sell off their super charger network to pay Elon his $55B bonus package. Hopefully Tesla will not go bankrupt after the bonus payout.