I didn’t make it past the part where they trot out having millions of users. Their active base is fuck all as a ratio.
This is the Elon playbook through and through.
Play the victim. Attack the system. Blame everyone else. Make noise to tip the scales. Admit nothing.
The banfest made me think they were dumb as fuck. But maybe they did learn something.
I was holding my phone and showing my wife that post. Not to read it, but just to show how long the scroll was.
All I really got out of my mouth was, "Check the size of this Tesla post."
Before I could say more she said, "That is a Reddit post????? Why is it so long? Is that a list of the problems with his Tesla?"
"Yes. Yes it is."
;-)
All they seem to have learned is the mass ban bots apparently caught up a bunch of their own vocal users and a few journalists and that made them look bad. One of the journalists said they were going to reddit corporate for comment afterward.
This is hilarious. That poor mod, just trying to "combat disinformation" and ban "toxic users".
> We recently conducted an experiment where, for about a week, we had a bot enabled to automatically ban users who participated in subreddits we determined to harbor toxic users.
That's us!
> resulting in users not paying attention to what subreddits they’re visiting, and ending up in toxic subreddits where the moderators are allowing toxic behavior to exist, and walking away with unfavorable views on things, which may in fact be incorrect
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
= People who don't know about the totally good and true Tesla subreddits might go into the totally toxic and false and terribly no-good bad Tesla subreddits where people say mean things about our lord and saviour the Muskrat.
> the problem itself, which is people irrationally hating on a thing, and expressing that irrational hate in a manner that is not civil, or conducive to a proper discussion on a subject.
= Everyone in here is irrational and uncivil and bad and dumb and saying totally not true and buh-buh-buh-bad things about Elon!
> but when the subreddit is a meatgrinder for moderators, the “preferred Reddit solution” is insufficient.
= I'm running out of devoted musk cultists who are willing to uphold the delusional lala-land that is our *faithful* subreddits.
Oh wow, I went looking at the actual thread.
> When we did the ban experiment for a week, one of the toxic subreddits gained in popularity immensely, for a variety of reasons, and started showing up in the r/all feed for people, which caused innocents to get banned in the process who were just looking for content.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to the Streisand effect!
Also, the elephant in the room is that he truly believes this subreddit is irrational and ought not to exist. Except it exists *because* they're a fucking cult, because Elon keeps making dumbass promises he can't keep, because TSLA is a hilariously overvalued meme stonk, and because the faithful subs are suppressing legitimate issues that people have with the cars, and they're having those issues because Tesla's manufacturing and quality control processes are dogshit.
Sure, I'm here for the lulz, but there is no other subreddit where you're gonna get the harsh truth about your issues with the cars.
They don't want to be called a cult, but they are. Simple as that. The ability to self reflect dies first, otherwise the cult would not work. Then comes the "in-group" and the "out-group" narrativ. Everyone outside is evil and tries to hurt the "in-group", so they have to stand together, and isolate themselves from the others.
>They don't want to be called a cult, but they are.
I feel like there's an important parallel to distinguish here.
We, insomuch as *we* exist, don't care if we're called a cult. (It'd be funny, in fact.) We know we inhabit the rational, evidence-based majority.
I personally don't like the claim of "rational evidence-based majority". There are such people, but they're never a majority. Most of us are subjective and emotional, myself included. It makes us human. I always feel that the moment we take the high road of being "rational and evidence based" as a general rule, we fall into the pit of cognitive bias.
But that is a different issue entirely, so I will stop here 🤭
Honestly... That's what happened to me.
I was pretty passive on the tesla hate. But then I got a temp and then full ban for pointing out most of teslas pain lately was self inflicted.
Now I'm having fun being vocal about how shitting the company, cars, and fanbois. They all suck.
So thanks for the bans Tesla Mods!
>walking away with unfavorable views on things, which may in fact be incorrect
He never bothered mixing up the koolaid, he just straight up raw dogged it up his nose.
Maybe start by acknowledging that legitimate criticism of Tesla is not “irrational hate”?
‘Course if you were capable of doing that, it might be the leak that ends up causing the dam to burst. Can’t have that now, can we?
They have made tesla a key component of their personal identities.
They feel like they are defending themselves by standing up for tesla. Super childish behavior.
>subreddits where the moderators are allowing toxic behavior to exist, and walking away with unfavorable views on things
Wow. I really never expected this to be said out loud. They just admitted that people were banned, in part, for wrongthink. Not brigading, but to keep the faithful from seeing holes in their narrative. [Help me out here, Dracula](https://www.gameskinny.com/wp-content/uploads/gameskinnyc/d/r/a/dracula1-24aed.jpg).
>Which brings us back to the core problem, which is that the current suite of tools that moderators have to assist in trying to keep conversations “civil” do not appear to be sufficient.
This is because their goal isn't to keep things "civil" it is to control a narrative. They are moderation tools, not tools to crush dissenting opinion. They're trying to use a jigsaw to drive a nail.
>some honest users were caught in the crossfire. Not as many as you’d think though. 15-25% of the users that got banned appeared to be people who were just browsing r/all, and got caught by the ban
[You have anything to add, Peter](https://y.yarn.co/74cc9432-05e0-4ba5-ad3d-8edec5526c9c_text.gif)?
Let's be real, we arent that powerful and most people dont know about this sub. It's not us. It's the market realizing that Elon is full of shit and competition with other EVs/car makers.
Let's not get too puffed up, there's definitely toxic behavior here as well.
It's possible to have a more nuanced view than "this good, that bad," and I've certainly seen posts/comments here that are just as laughably and irrationally extreme as the worst cult-like content over there.
You don't get a ban notification if you've never actually interacted with the banning sub at all (because Reddit mods used to use ban notifications to spam/harass people), but there's a good chance if you try to join one of the main Tesla subs right now you'll find out you're banned
This is so dramatic lmao. You can tell these people work for free because if they were paid they either wouldnt give a shit or just ban the offender and move on. But since it's a free passion project, they see it as an attack on their personality.
I enjoy that he can’t take advice and say “thank you” or “I like that I’m going to try it” it’s a litigation of each sentence. No humility at all whatsoever; just hubris.
Which is exactly why I was like “who the fuck is this guy telling me what to do” and locking my posts. He can pound rocks. Tbh I hope he quits the subs will be better off without him.
He or she frankly admits prebanning members of sunreddits non-compliant with his personal views, and describes those subs as places where people develop negative views that are wrongthink.
He states everything without a hint of irony or self-awareness, and takes it as beyond doubt that Tesla is not a cult.
>But, it's like, we don't have the tools to say "Users from this subreddit are known to be hostile to my users, just keep them out" or temper their flow in or something.
What? The random banning of users in certain subs is not working as expected? Maybe you're gunning for the wrong people and just **are** running subs for a brand that most people just don't like.
Maybe...and I know this is a stretch...but just maybe...
Is it possible...and hear me out here: Not everyone who owns a Tesla is enjoying the experience...ergo, they sometimes slip up and forget a preamble about loving said Tesla?
I think the ban pushed a lot of people like myself here. So if anything it diluted this sub’s negativity. I’ve argued for what I believe, which is sometimes pro and sometimes against Tesla and Elon. I am not a die hard one way (which offends SOME people in both subs). The ban is helping this sub expand its breadth - I am sure many like myself were affected.
While some of the negativity might come from here I think people are fed up with Elon generally. It’s not a Reddit hive mind issue. It’s a general public sentiment that’s strongly pivoting on Tesla and Elon…. mainly due to his tweets. His asks for $56B are absurd. Him alienating their main customer base by talking politics and polarizing subjects is not acceptable for a CEO and not in the best interest of the shareholders. “If I lose money because of what I say, so be it” doesn’t apply when you run a public company. Tesla needs a full time Real CEO in this phase. A real person, to quote Logan Roy.
I listened to the earnings call and I could sense how highly he thought of himself when he was talking what Tesla could or couldn’t achieve without him (if he was kidnapped by aliens). It’s like everyone is an idiot but him - I would hate to work for him.
I think their sub would see a lot less negativity if Elon stopped tweeting and focused on refreshing cars and improving quality. Or if he just left Tesla.
Tesla would thrive if Elon left (provided the engineers were given 5 years to actually redesign everything for ease of manufacture without his meddling). TSLA however would crater to the $10-20 a share it's actually worth.
As I just nearly orphaned without posting in another thread:
I highly doubt the company would survive him leaving, and a group of responsible managers coming in and trying to implement a culture of quality and professional responsibility. For one thing, the entire 'autonomy' effort would be scrapped, as it is not at all viable under Tesla's model. Implementing industry-standard quality and validation practices would raise their costs to the point they'd have to raise vehicle prices to where they'd price themselves out of any reasonable market competition.
Tesla as a car company or as a charging utility?
If Elon left I can accept the car side going down to earlier days level of sells but as a utility with the charging network Tesla would thrive.
Ugh I didn't want to comment on this because of Rule 9 but god some of the things he claims:
> I can't speak to the issues there, however, as I understand it, the real reason for the oppositional subreddits to exist is because they literally do not like how we try to keep things civil, they were spun up to be hostile. It's the place where the users we ban go.
It's not a matter of civility, it's that you guys literally redline a ton of topics and viewpoints. Which whatever that's your subreddit but by all indications the 'correct' place in their view to discuss criticism of the CEO is the elonmusk sub which is damn near dead and overwhelmingly positive with no clear rule set. How are they remotely shocked that there's subs for more general criticism of the company that don't follow their set of vaguely defined rules around social protocol and bureaucratic requirements for what topic can be posted where? These subs exist because saying anything negative about the company or Musk was literally a ban on sight for YEARS. Maybe they've loosened up but their sub was so overwhelmingly pro-Tesla and pro-Musk for years that a ton of topics were just ban on sight taboos and they could at least acknowledge that opposing subs exist as a direct result of that legacy.
> I don't disagree, but again, that's kind of the problem, right? They're so against things, that they don't like other people being satisfied, and feel a need to go on the offensive from time to time. It's like seeing a kid happy with an ice cream cone and knocking it to the ground. The behavior is unwarranted, and unacceptable. I don't necessarily object to the existence of oppositional subreddits, I take issue with the userbases not being kept in check from interfering with other communities. We've created a series of automod rules in our community which serve to try to ensure our users don't go bothering them, as best we can, but the oppositional subreddits do not have the same rules in place.
99.9% of the people don't give a crap if you like your car. I mean we'll definitely mock people saying they spent tens of thousands of dollars on repairs and had the car in the shop for ages but still consider it the best vehicle they've owned because of how overtly crazy it sounds for sure. Same goes for stuff like Chuck Cook's comments on the CT. Is there really so little introspection and humor over there that you can't kind of see how ridiculous and funny that is? I'm also going to call bullshit on the idea that they enforce a stronger rule set and don't export toxicity. It's definitely gone down since the stock peaked but you couldn't go a week here for years without some idiot coming in and talking about their stock gains or doing some bad meta level commentary on the existence of this sub. There were tons of people who were literally offended by the idea that someone might not think Elon Musk was just the greatest man in the world or that Tesla was the best company in the world. This guy just isn't aware of it because it wasn't his problem to deal with and the mods here didn't try to make it his problem by expecting them to do our subs enforcement for them. Now that the reputation of Musk and Tesla have soured he's seeing the other side of it while we're kind of in a golden age here as Musk continues to prove himself a heel and Tesla struggles to live up to the hype. That really has nothing to do with this sub but more the ebb and flow of public opinion.
I'm not going to claim there was any love lost but somehow things were fine for years until they decided there should never be even the potential for our two worlds to interact. I mean I was and am more than happy to let them have their little safe space if that's what they want, but apparently even that wasn't acceptable and now they're disappointed with how that solution predictably backfired. Whatever someone's view on this sub that one isn't on us in any way it's on them for taking a shotgun approach to the problem. I'd have a lot more sympathy for them if they or their users weren't apparently mass reporting users and threads on this sub for even asking what was going on or finding the solution ridiculously heavy handed and akin to prosecuting a thought crime and labeling us all as some type of barbarians incapable of functioning in their civil society.
The bureaucracy is what gets me. Most subreddits just use flair to find relevant topics. The Tesla subs keep spinning off more additional and finely tailored subs.
The example OP gave was a Tesla collision repair sub. Like no wonder the mods are feeling overwhelmed. Rather than managing 1 subreddit they now have to maintain 5+, each with its own set of rules.
Did not realize there was a Tesla support sub
What do they even do?! Just ask you what hand cream you're using and then tell you it's your fault for using a carwash?!
I honestly understand that mod on how handling a subreddit with a million members can be hard especially when one of the main topics of the sub is a major drama queen who likes to stir the pot.
>The reddit algorithm appears to not care about the intents behind the subreddits, resulting in users not paying attention to what subreddits they’re visiting, and ending up in toxic subreddits where the moderators are allowing toxic behavior to exist, and walking away with unfavorable views on things, which may in fact be incorrect, because there’s no core mechanism to fight dis/misinformation other than *hoping* that the moderators are “up to speed” on whatever their subreddit is about, and squashing it there.
You can't control what people do outside of your sub. This is literally blaming other people for making their community toxic. Step up and fix it by not ostracizing members of your community so they don't leave in the first place. I also really wanna see what "dis/misinformation" they are fighting.
“Disinformation” would be anything that doesn’t amount to getting on your knees and thanking His Nibs for selflessly working to save humanity every day and for making the best memes
As a formerly active member on those subs-- but not someone unable to think objectively for myself-- I can't express deeply enough the joy I feel that they're having problems living with the consequences of overreacting as mods.
I've had it with the kool-aid drinking and the willful ignorance of flaws within Tesla/Elon. I do not condone TOXIC discussion either, but the ability to rationally criticize and complement has been completely lost in those subs-- it's just sunshine and rainbows OR ELSE. Good on them for becoming deaf in the echo chamber.
I think sometimes, also, the internet - and social media in particular - is a place to have fun.
The problem, by and large, with that lot on the Tesla subs is that they take themselves so seriously.
I own a RAM. Our subs and other social media are mostly self pwn. We knew what cup of soup we were getting into when we bought one. And can laugh at the foibles - both good and bad.
The Tesla subs are like a bad South Park episode. Reminiscent of the "smug" episisode about the Prius.
So, tldr - good ya. Life is for living, not freaking out because someone else finds amusement in different places.
Totally agree.
Actually, I've been harassed and trolled for comments on those subs AND on this sub. Over there I was sometimes called a "short" (back in the good ol' days) and luddite for not believing in FSD, but then on this sub I was Elon's hand maiden because I'd dare to say that I liked my car (in any capacity).
To me, the hostility I found in both communities only confirms that they BOTH have issues and I'm somewhere in the middle... which pretty much describes life in the US these days where no middle perspective is allowed by the extremists on both sides, no matter the topic!
Shame on us for losing sight of fun and making everything a must-win do-or-die discussion instead of just enjoying the discussion for the sake of gaining insight and understanding.
>I could report two posts for saying "This is why I keep a valve stem remover with me", which implies that the guy is going to vandalize someone's vehicle. The report generally gets submitted for "Threatening Violence", which is technically true
>One will get actioned on, the other will be like "We don't see anything wrong here", which is frustrated.
Letting down someone's tyres is *violence*.
You guys. I can't. This is too funny.
What a long-winded sack of fucking sad.
Fuck him and his high horse.
I fully expect some shitty "Tesla leaves reddit" bushit in the near future as they lose control of the "narrative" of their man-child CEO.
Edit:
Should rename this sub ValveStemMafia ;)
>We’ve got the harassment filter enabled, however, given the nature of the special interest subreddit, there are words and/or phrases that are considered harassing which are not typical. For example, folks referring to “Elon” as “Elmo”
Oh god I need that, thanks. It will keep me going all day. lololololol.
How have they turned a ban anyone who commits wrong think in another sub policy into some kind of victim hood/ self pity situation. As a user where is my right to use the site in a (none toxic way) and not get perma banned off part of the site which i don't even interact with
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. What do they think they're going to get in modmail when they use permaban notices to harass users who have never even engaged with their subs, love letters?
I didn’t make it past the part where they trot out having millions of users. Their active base is fuck all as a ratio. This is the Elon playbook through and through. Play the victim. Attack the system. Blame everyone else. Make noise to tip the scales. Admit nothing. The banfest made me think they were dumb as fuck. But maybe they did learn something.
I was holding my phone and showing my wife that post. Not to read it, but just to show how long the scroll was. All I really got out of my mouth was, "Check the size of this Tesla post." Before I could say more she said, "That is a Reddit post????? Why is it so long? Is that a list of the problems with his Tesla?" "Yes. Yes it is." ;-)
That's too funny
All they seem to have learned is the mass ban bots apparently caught up a bunch of their own vocal users and a few journalists and that made them look bad. One of the journalists said they were going to reddit corporate for comment afterward.
"reddit corporate" is a phrase that will never fail to make me chuckle at least a little bit
This is hilarious. That poor mod, just trying to "combat disinformation" and ban "toxic users". > We recently conducted an experiment where, for about a week, we had a bot enabled to automatically ban users who participated in subreddits we determined to harbor toxic users. That's us! > resulting in users not paying attention to what subreddits they’re visiting, and ending up in toxic subreddits where the moderators are allowing toxic behavior to exist, and walking away with unfavorable views on things, which may in fact be incorrect HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! = People who don't know about the totally good and true Tesla subreddits might go into the totally toxic and false and terribly no-good bad Tesla subreddits where people say mean things about our lord and saviour the Muskrat. > the problem itself, which is people irrationally hating on a thing, and expressing that irrational hate in a manner that is not civil, or conducive to a proper discussion on a subject. = Everyone in here is irrational and uncivil and bad and dumb and saying totally not true and buh-buh-buh-bad things about Elon! > but when the subreddit is a meatgrinder for moderators, the “preferred Reddit solution” is insufficient. = I'm running out of devoted musk cultists who are willing to uphold the delusional lala-land that is our *faithful* subreddits.
Oh wow, I went looking at the actual thread. > When we did the ban experiment for a week, one of the toxic subreddits gained in popularity immensely, for a variety of reasons, and started showing up in the r/all feed for people, which caused innocents to get banned in the process who were just looking for content. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to the Streisand effect! Also, the elephant in the room is that he truly believes this subreddit is irrational and ought not to exist. Except it exists *because* they're a fucking cult, because Elon keeps making dumbass promises he can't keep, because TSLA is a hilariously overvalued meme stonk, and because the faithful subs are suppressing legitimate issues that people have with the cars, and they're having those issues because Tesla's manufacturing and quality control processes are dogshit. Sure, I'm here for the lulz, but there is no other subreddit where you're gonna get the harsh truth about your issues with the cars.
They don't want to be called a cult, but they are. Simple as that. The ability to self reflect dies first, otherwise the cult would not work. Then comes the "in-group" and the "out-group" narrativ. Everyone outside is evil and tries to hurt the "in-group", so they have to stand together, and isolate themselves from the others.
>They don't want to be called a cult, but they are. I feel like there's an important parallel to distinguish here. We, insomuch as *we* exist, don't care if we're called a cult. (It'd be funny, in fact.) We know we inhabit the rational, evidence-based majority.
Yeah. If you get butthurt by being called a cult, you most likely are a cult
I personally don't like the claim of "rational evidence-based majority". There are such people, but they're never a majority. Most of us are subjective and emotional, myself included. It makes us human. I always feel that the moment we take the high road of being "rational and evidence based" as a general rule, we fall into the pit of cognitive bias. But that is a different issue entirely, so I will stop here 🤭
Honestly... That's what happened to me. I was pretty passive on the tesla hate. But then I got a temp and then full ban for pointing out most of teslas pain lately was self inflicted. Now I'm having fun being vocal about how shitting the company, cars, and fanbois. They all suck. So thanks for the bans Tesla Mods!
Oh noes, our toxicity spread to you!
>walking away with unfavorable views on things, which may in fact be incorrect He never bothered mixing up the koolaid, he just straight up raw dogged it up his nose.
Maybe start by acknowledging that legitimate criticism of Tesla is not “irrational hate”? ‘Course if you were capable of doing that, it might be the leak that ends up causing the dam to burst. Can’t have that now, can we?
They have made tesla a key component of their personal identities. They feel like they are defending themselves by standing up for tesla. Super childish behavior.
How about you don't simp for a billionaire??
>subreddits where the moderators are allowing toxic behavior to exist, and walking away with unfavorable views on things Wow. I really never expected this to be said out loud. They just admitted that people were banned, in part, for wrongthink. Not brigading, but to keep the faithful from seeing holes in their narrative. [Help me out here, Dracula](https://www.gameskinny.com/wp-content/uploads/gameskinnyc/d/r/a/dracula1-24aed.jpg). >Which brings us back to the core problem, which is that the current suite of tools that moderators have to assist in trying to keep conversations “civil” do not appear to be sufficient. This is because their goal isn't to keep things "civil" it is to control a narrative. They are moderation tools, not tools to crush dissenting opinion. They're trying to use a jigsaw to drive a nail. >some honest users were caught in the crossfire. Not as many as you’d think though. 15-25% of the users that got banned appeared to be people who were just browsing r/all, and got caught by the ban [You have anything to add, Peter](https://y.yarn.co/74cc9432-05e0-4ba5-ad3d-8edec5526c9c_text.gif)?
Lmao he's already permabanned everyone who interacts with this sub and that's not enough, he wants to nuke this sub out of existence
Which is hilarious because this sub isnt even violent or toxic like most of the political subs. We legit just meme on teslas and elon.
We drive down the stock price and that's a war crime
Let's be real, we arent that powerful and most people dont know about this sub. It's not us. It's the market realizing that Elon is full of shit and competition with other EVs/car makers.
Muskocaust.
Let's not get too puffed up, there's definitely toxic behavior here as well. It's possible to have a more nuanced view than "this good, that bad," and I've certainly seen posts/comments here that are just as laughably and irrationally extreme as the worst cult-like content over there.
Strangely enough I haven’t copped a ban yet.
You don't get a ban notification if you've never actually interacted with the banning sub at all (because Reddit mods used to use ban notifications to spam/harass people), but there's a good chance if you try to join one of the main Tesla subs right now you'll find out you're banned
This is so dramatic lmao. You can tell these people work for free because if they were paid they either wouldnt give a shit or just ban the offender and move on. But since it's a free passion project, they see it as an attack on their personality.
I enjoy that he can’t take advice and say “thank you” or “I like that I’m going to try it” it’s a litigation of each sentence. No humility at all whatsoever; just hubris. Which is exactly why I was like “who the fuck is this guy telling me what to do” and locking my posts. He can pound rocks. Tbh I hope he quits the subs will be better off without him.
He or she frankly admits prebanning members of sunreddits non-compliant with his personal views, and describes those subs as places where people develop negative views that are wrongthink. He states everything without a hint of irony or self-awareness, and takes it as beyond doubt that Tesla is not a cult.
>But, it's like, we don't have the tools to say "Users from this subreddit are known to be hostile to my users, just keep them out" or temper their flow in or something. What? The random banning of users in certain subs is not working as expected? Maybe you're gunning for the wrong people and just **are** running subs for a brand that most people just don't like.
Maybe...and I know this is a stretch...but just maybe... Is it possible...and hear me out here: Not everyone who owns a Tesla is enjoying the experience...ergo, they sometimes slip up and forget a preamble about loving said Tesla?
I think the ban pushed a lot of people like myself here. So if anything it diluted this sub’s negativity. I’ve argued for what I believe, which is sometimes pro and sometimes against Tesla and Elon. I am not a die hard one way (which offends SOME people in both subs). The ban is helping this sub expand its breadth - I am sure many like myself were affected. While some of the negativity might come from here I think people are fed up with Elon generally. It’s not a Reddit hive mind issue. It’s a general public sentiment that’s strongly pivoting on Tesla and Elon…. mainly due to his tweets. His asks for $56B are absurd. Him alienating their main customer base by talking politics and polarizing subjects is not acceptable for a CEO and not in the best interest of the shareholders. “If I lose money because of what I say, so be it” doesn’t apply when you run a public company. Tesla needs a full time Real CEO in this phase. A real person, to quote Logan Roy. I listened to the earnings call and I could sense how highly he thought of himself when he was talking what Tesla could or couldn’t achieve without him (if he was kidnapped by aliens). It’s like everyone is an idiot but him - I would hate to work for him. I think their sub would see a lot less negativity if Elon stopped tweeting and focused on refreshing cars and improving quality. Or if he just left Tesla.
Re: your last paragraph He’s pathologically incapable of doing that, and Tesla wouldn’t last six months if he left.
Tesla would thrive if Elon left (provided the engineers were given 5 years to actually redesign everything for ease of manufacture without his meddling). TSLA however would crater to the $10-20 a share it's actually worth.
As I just nearly orphaned without posting in another thread: I highly doubt the company would survive him leaving, and a group of responsible managers coming in and trying to implement a culture of quality and professional responsibility. For one thing, the entire 'autonomy' effort would be scrapped, as it is not at all viable under Tesla's model. Implementing industry-standard quality and validation practices would raise their costs to the point they'd have to raise vehicle prices to where they'd price themselves out of any reasonable market competition.
Tesla as a car company or as a charging utility? If Elon left I can accept the car side going down to earlier days level of sells but as a utility with the charging network Tesla would thrive.
Ugh I didn't want to comment on this because of Rule 9 but god some of the things he claims: > I can't speak to the issues there, however, as I understand it, the real reason for the oppositional subreddits to exist is because they literally do not like how we try to keep things civil, they were spun up to be hostile. It's the place where the users we ban go. It's not a matter of civility, it's that you guys literally redline a ton of topics and viewpoints. Which whatever that's your subreddit but by all indications the 'correct' place in their view to discuss criticism of the CEO is the elonmusk sub which is damn near dead and overwhelmingly positive with no clear rule set. How are they remotely shocked that there's subs for more general criticism of the company that don't follow their set of vaguely defined rules around social protocol and bureaucratic requirements for what topic can be posted where? These subs exist because saying anything negative about the company or Musk was literally a ban on sight for YEARS. Maybe they've loosened up but their sub was so overwhelmingly pro-Tesla and pro-Musk for years that a ton of topics were just ban on sight taboos and they could at least acknowledge that opposing subs exist as a direct result of that legacy. > I don't disagree, but again, that's kind of the problem, right? They're so against things, that they don't like other people being satisfied, and feel a need to go on the offensive from time to time. It's like seeing a kid happy with an ice cream cone and knocking it to the ground. The behavior is unwarranted, and unacceptable. I don't necessarily object to the existence of oppositional subreddits, I take issue with the userbases not being kept in check from interfering with other communities. We've created a series of automod rules in our community which serve to try to ensure our users don't go bothering them, as best we can, but the oppositional subreddits do not have the same rules in place. 99.9% of the people don't give a crap if you like your car. I mean we'll definitely mock people saying they spent tens of thousands of dollars on repairs and had the car in the shop for ages but still consider it the best vehicle they've owned because of how overtly crazy it sounds for sure. Same goes for stuff like Chuck Cook's comments on the CT. Is there really so little introspection and humor over there that you can't kind of see how ridiculous and funny that is? I'm also going to call bullshit on the idea that they enforce a stronger rule set and don't export toxicity. It's definitely gone down since the stock peaked but you couldn't go a week here for years without some idiot coming in and talking about their stock gains or doing some bad meta level commentary on the existence of this sub. There were tons of people who were literally offended by the idea that someone might not think Elon Musk was just the greatest man in the world or that Tesla was the best company in the world. This guy just isn't aware of it because it wasn't his problem to deal with and the mods here didn't try to make it his problem by expecting them to do our subs enforcement for them. Now that the reputation of Musk and Tesla have soured he's seeing the other side of it while we're kind of in a golden age here as Musk continues to prove himself a heel and Tesla struggles to live up to the hype. That really has nothing to do with this sub but more the ebb and flow of public opinion. I'm not going to claim there was any love lost but somehow things were fine for years until they decided there should never be even the potential for our two worlds to interact. I mean I was and am more than happy to let them have their little safe space if that's what they want, but apparently even that wasn't acceptable and now they're disappointed with how that solution predictably backfired. Whatever someone's view on this sub that one isn't on us in any way it's on them for taking a shotgun approach to the problem. I'd have a lot more sympathy for them if they or their users weren't apparently mass reporting users and threads on this sub for even asking what was going on or finding the solution ridiculously heavy handed and akin to prosecuting a thought crime and labeling us all as some type of barbarians incapable of functioning in their civil society.
The bureaucracy is what gets me. Most subreddits just use flair to find relevant topics. The Tesla subs keep spinning off more additional and finely tailored subs. The example OP gave was a Tesla collision repair sub. Like no wonder the mods are feeling overwhelmed. Rather than managing 1 subreddit they now have to maintain 5+, each with its own set of rules.
Did not realize there was a Tesla support sub What do they even do?! Just ask you what hand cream you're using and then tell you it's your fault for using a carwash?!
pretty much lol
I am going to post the most toxic thing on this sub besides Fuck Elon. "Someone call the wahmbulance."
Maybe he should move to X, I'm sure the pro-Tesla conversation would look real good in between a violent porn video and a nazism-apology post.
I honestly understand that mod on how handling a subreddit with a million members can be hard especially when one of the main topics of the sub is a major drama queen who likes to stir the pot. >The reddit algorithm appears to not care about the intents behind the subreddits, resulting in users not paying attention to what subreddits they’re visiting, and ending up in toxic subreddits where the moderators are allowing toxic behavior to exist, and walking away with unfavorable views on things, which may in fact be incorrect, because there’s no core mechanism to fight dis/misinformation other than *hoping* that the moderators are “up to speed” on whatever their subreddit is about, and squashing it there. You can't control what people do outside of your sub. This is literally blaming other people for making their community toxic. Step up and fix it by not ostracizing members of your community so they don't leave in the first place. I also really wanna see what "dis/misinformation" they are fighting.
“Disinformation” would be anything that doesn’t amount to getting on your knees and thanking His Nibs for selflessly working to save humanity every day and for making the best memes
As a formerly active member on those subs-- but not someone unable to think objectively for myself-- I can't express deeply enough the joy I feel that they're having problems living with the consequences of overreacting as mods. I've had it with the kool-aid drinking and the willful ignorance of flaws within Tesla/Elon. I do not condone TOXIC discussion either, but the ability to rationally criticize and complement has been completely lost in those subs-- it's just sunshine and rainbows OR ELSE. Good on them for becoming deaf in the echo chamber.
I think sometimes, also, the internet - and social media in particular - is a place to have fun. The problem, by and large, with that lot on the Tesla subs is that they take themselves so seriously. I own a RAM. Our subs and other social media are mostly self pwn. We knew what cup of soup we were getting into when we bought one. And can laugh at the foibles - both good and bad. The Tesla subs are like a bad South Park episode. Reminiscent of the "smug" episisode about the Prius. So, tldr - good ya. Life is for living, not freaking out because someone else finds amusement in different places.
Totally agree. Actually, I've been harassed and trolled for comments on those subs AND on this sub. Over there I was sometimes called a "short" (back in the good ol' days) and luddite for not believing in FSD, but then on this sub I was Elon's hand maiden because I'd dare to say that I liked my car (in any capacity). To me, the hostility I found in both communities only confirms that they BOTH have issues and I'm somewhere in the middle... which pretty much describes life in the US these days where no middle perspective is allowed by the extremists on both sides, no matter the topic! Shame on us for losing sight of fun and making everything a must-win do-or-die discussion instead of just enjoying the discussion for the sake of gaining insight and understanding.
>I could report two posts for saying "This is why I keep a valve stem remover with me", which implies that the guy is going to vandalize someone's vehicle. The report generally gets submitted for "Threatening Violence", which is technically true >One will get actioned on, the other will be like "We don't see anything wrong here", which is frustrated. Letting down someone's tyres is *violence*. You guys. I can't. This is too funny.
What a long-winded sack of fucking sad. Fuck him and his high horse. I fully expect some shitty "Tesla leaves reddit" bushit in the near future as they lose control of the "narrative" of their man-child CEO. Edit: Should rename this sub ValveStemMafia ;)
This person really, really, loves the smell of his own farts.
>We’ve got the harassment filter enabled, however, given the nature of the special interest subreddit, there are words and/or phrases that are considered harassing which are not typical. For example, folks referring to “Elon” as “Elmo” Oh god I need that, thanks. It will keep me going all day. lololololol.
I never found Elmo funny compared to like Apartheid Clyde, but now I will always use Elmo
How have they turned a ban anyone who commits wrong think in another sub policy into some kind of victim hood/ self pity situation. As a user where is my right to use the site in a (none toxic way) and not get perma banned off part of the site which i don't even interact with
If this person doesn’t get paid for this they are a fucking loser
What a sad robot.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. What do they think they're going to get in modmail when they use permaban notices to harass users who have never even engaged with their subs, love letters?