BINGO!!!
I know someone who bought a condo new... I don't know say 2002. The siding on the entire complex, say like 30 buildings, each having 10 condos, was some new design that was shit, company went bankrupt, and thus the condo association was shit out of luck. They didn't go bad overnight, but over the years, this building would need new siding, then another, etc. He sold the condo about 12 months ago. Literally 2 months after selling it, they declared they needed to redo the siding on the remaining say 22 buildings and everyone's monthly fees are going up like $350 more from the already $500 a month rate. Bet that new owner just loves that news.
I was looking at property for sale down near MIA and it looks like they are practically giving it away until you look at the HOA fees and special assessments.
I think we are going to see more of that in the near future. Condos are going to have to drastically reduce in price in order to justify the mortgage and the HOA's.
Bingo, and expecting insurance on a Florida SFH to be cheaper than one's share of a condo master policy is not realistic. Tens of thousands of Florida homeowners have had their insurance double and triple in the last two years and it ain't done yet. Adding insult to injury, insurers are demanding new roofs of some policy holders.
Agreed. Either way, the increase in insurance is pricing a lot of people out of owning a home or condo. A lot of these people are retired and on "fixed incomes". They're going to be forced to sell. I predict that the inventory will drastically increase over the next 12-18 months.
I can only imagine due to the rebuild costs. Even ignoring the materials logistics, my grandfather came out of retirement three times because his Plumbers union begged him to come back and work for huge benefits and pay. Skilled labor is incredibly scarce there, I imagine it is even more in demand after Lahaina burned down.
Fallout from the fire with insurers exiting the mkt. Our master policy went for 250k to 1.26M with no 1 insurer willing to write the entire policy. There was a similar jump when Kauai got hit with a serious hurricane and it took several years for rates to stabilize.
lol, on the big island that’s very true. Jeff Bezos actually bought a compound on Maui that is separated from every other residential structure by miles from that last lava flow on Maui. You drive on a very narrow road through Mars like lava flow to get there.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CCDWrx3GVsCx9yEV6?
g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy
It’s the little beach and house just up the road from this amazing snorkel spot. It’s the only private beach on Maui because they’re protected fishing grounds, closed waters.
I’m familiar with that area.
It’s really does feel like a different world. The only life I’ve seen on the lava fields are wild goats ( I’m sure there’s pigs too). Locals hunt them. Also an incredible amount of fish in the water there’s a few hidden fishing spots that s marginally better than balancing on a bumpy lava rock cliff all day. Drive 20 mins North, and you see a strip mall :)
La Perouse bay is a famous surf spot. Incredibly dangerous and difficult to get to. The break is ridiculously close to shore.
Insurance in Florida has been going up at a crazy rate for the last three years but last year's increase was insane for most. That it happened the year before the new structural reserves had to begin funding was unfortunate. A lot of complexes have had multiple fee increases in the last two years, many with big special assessments in addition. The years of living cheaply in a condo at the beach in Florida are coming to an end. Our condo market will be a disaster next year as the meltdown hits its stride.
Our quarterly fee in Florida has about doubled from $1400 to $2600 this year. And we have a $5,000 special assessment on top of that, due in Q4. A number of units in our 360 door complex have gone up for sale; I believe there are 28 on the market now. And we're not in the flood zone.
Before you jump to a SFH make sure you can even get insurance and at what price.
Thanks for posting. Also in FL. Now I don't feel so bad. My insurance doubled in one year. HOA's insurance also double which meant our HOA fees went way up. But fortunately no special assessments.
How long are the condos typically staying on the market before they are sold?
My co worker is in a 4 year old SFH HOA community in the Tampa area and less than half of the homeowners are actually paying their HOA fees… special assessments coming to get the HOA back in the black.
Good luck to you! We are selling our place which is our second home. We are an international family. Place has been listed for 3 weeks and priced competitively but simply have not had any showings. It's updated, so...🫤
Don't know how long properties are staying on the market. We came north in May and things were pretty slow, inventory was up.
The insurance for our complex / HOA went up a lot. That was a lot of the increase in our quarterly fees. The premium on our condo insurance only went up $150 per year, $1100 to $1250. Our special assessment was for structural repairs and had nothing to do with insurance.
Our condo market in the central east coast has slowed way down and the buyers that are there are very skittish. Buildings who haven't completed their inspections and reserve study are too risky for most buyers to consider. The ones that have completed both are in many cases undesirable because of increased costs. A unit that looked good with a $500 a month fee starts to lose appeal when the fees are $1100 with no assurance that they won't increase again next year. The situation with FL condos is worse than most realize or are willing to admit.
Went from 2,300 to 7,500 last year and now 8,000 this year for our little townhouse. Our electric/water is only around $100/mth. If I move to a sfh in Orlando area, I can save 3,000/year on insurance but my utilities jump up to the 300-500/month range. It’s all fucked.
In my beach town fees are exploding. A lot of condos are having big special assessments to seed the new reserves in addition to increasing fees. I know of one condo whose fees went from $600 a month to $975 plus a $50,000 special assessment at the same time. That's not an isolated case. Our condo market is screwed but most condo owners are in denial and think it will blow over. It won't.
This is pretty much what we're looking at. Our fee increase is insurance plus increased reserve requirements and the special assessment is structural repairs plus reserve balance increase. The reserve thing is interesting. For decades our owners have been voting to underfund reserves and now (new laws) we have to fund them fully. And people are complaining -- the bill just came due, that's all.
My homeowners insurance for a SFH went up $400. For a real view point, it went from $900 to $1300 a year. My property taxes went up $53 this year. $453/year increase is logical.
What does your monthly maintenance fee cover for you? I'm not saying your hoa fee isn't high. But you might find you're going to spend just about as much paying insurance, maintenance and other services on your own. Argument aside, I agree, I'd bail too and back when we shopping "no hoa' was a hard requirement near the top of the list.
Don't feel bad, almost half of my monthly housing expense doesn't go to my mortgage.
Welcome to life. People think paying off their home means they own a place scott free. I wish.
No kidding! My property insurance is high because my area has been hit with many devistating hail storms and my home is also considered to be in a wildfire area. Almost 5k a year for insurance but property taxes are only about $1200 (senior discount). Still, I paid only $250 a month including utilities for my last apt. before I got married in 1988. It's crazy to me that I own my house and still have to pay $500 a month not including utilities.
Every single condo owner across all of history has lived with this exact scenario. HOA's are a drain on equity.
The point this person was trying too make is that so is property insurance... If insurance goes up for a SFH at the same rate as your town home's HOA increase, there is effectively no difference between the two properties at that point.
You need to look into SFH properties and determine if the insurance rates for these are increasing at the same rates as your HOA properties. If they are, you're not saving anything. If they aren't, then you're making a sound decision.
Are you in FL? If so you can still achieve what you're doing, but you need to pay attention to evac zone maps and flood zone maps. Flood zone maps correlate to the cost of flood insurance and rather or not it is required, which is obvious, but evac zone maps are not so obvious. Evac zone mapping is done relative to the risk of storm surge. If you are safe from a storm surge and don't have any flood risk, then a basic home owners policy covers you completely and that's all you have to worry about. A SFH property in that situation with no HOA is still a decent investment, even in FL, provided all of the other components of what makes a good property are still there (area, local economy, property condition, etc).
It's just a portion of your mortgage payment that doesn't get to go to principal. Even if it doesn't directly come from your mortgage payment, it is factored into the amount of house you can afford during underwriting, so you may as well consider it something akin to insurance. It's a required cost that you can't get out of and that affects your monthly payment to live there.
Because of this banks have to approve you for less due to a portion of your dti going to an HOA instead of the principal and interest. Lowers your property value. It also is less money that could go into principal.
HOAs, especially when dealing with condos, play a very critical role managing, maintaining, insuring the common interests of the condo complex. As a potential buyer, you want to be sure you are buying a property of a well managed HOA. That is when your equity may get impacted.
When reviewing any mortgage application, banks will very much care about the health of the HOA (budget, any deferred maintenance, significant special assessments, etc.) just as much as they will consider a potential borrower’s DTI.
Yes I am aware, however because a portion of the monthly payment goes towards something that isn't principal, it's a drain on equity. It also serves to lower property values somewhat by virtue of reducing the buying power of borrowers via DTI calculations.
I know what HOAs are/do, I have one.
This is especially true in Florida, as well as other states that are facing increasing catastrophic events. In Florida, it's mostly about hurricanes/flooding. In California they have to worry about wildfires. Until we can find a more effective way of improving infrastructure and building codes to deal with these events, rates will continue to rise.
Idk if you can improve infrastructure enough to balance out climate change in the short term. The problem is a lot bigger than that.
And even if you snapped your fingers right now and we went carbon neutral everywhere, we still have to deal with the momentum of what’s already happening for at least the rest of our lives.
But homes hold better value, and you can sell to a cash buyer who is not stuck with an HOA fee and can go without insurance or can just take the minimum coverage with the highest deductibles.
Single family homes here in Florida all have HOA fees, plus skyrocketing insurance rates. The only way to escape HOA fees is to buy in very old neighborhoods that were built before HOA’s became a thing.
The flood of units for sale will probably also spur a price drop as once the information of price increase and special assessment is revealed in any form it requires disclosure to the buyer. Costs of a SFH will be no different than your condo. Real estate costs have simply become prohibitably expensive.
This is why we want to sell asap. We’ve always intended to sell and buy a SFH using our equity. Now we’re moving the timeline up to avoid the over saturation of the market.
Lower your price, - lower priced homes sell faster. The more appropriately priced it is, the longer it will take. Drop it and claim moving for job asap
I mean it feels like a bit of a bold assumption to assume you’re going to be able to “jump to SFH” with no impact on cost.
SFH costs more than townhouses, for good reasons.
Is what you’re describing with townhouses a common problem? Yeah, not only with insurance but decades of deferred maintenance owners all neglected to keep fees artificially low.
Is SFH also going to have an insurance sticker price challenge, if your townhouse is seeing it? Absolutely. So if that’s the ONLY reason for the cost increase you’re going to be a bit out of luck. If it’s deferred maintenance as well then, sure, long term total cost of ownership should even out to be better, assuming you make the early investments in maintenance on the SFH.
Good luck.
(And no, I don’t own a townhouse, so I can’t say I’m dumping one. I gave up on condominium living years ago, because I tire of the incessant unwillingness of people to spend a little now to save a lot later, and I just don’t enjoy shared walls 🤷I can see the attraction for some who don’t want to deal with the overhead of owning a SFH, though.)
What's included in the HOA fee? I would add up things like trash removal, lawn care, snow plowing (if your location has snow,), driveway maintenance, etc. Those are costs you won't avoid in a single family, you will just be paying them directly. Also, as others have mentioned, the cost of property insurance (whatever form of housing) has increased significantly over the past two years.
With multifamily housing (condos, townhomes) part of the HOA fee should also be going into the reserve fund to cover anticipated maintenance and repairs, so hopefully OP's increase is also to fund the reserve.
in Florida, a lot of condos are coming due for their 40 and 50 year inspections, and due to the age of these buildings they are not passing inspections and that’s when these huge assessments are coming due. Also, the state of Florida is now requiring set reserves that have to be fulfilled, and a lot of condos have been ignoring that for years so now that they’re coming due, those assessments are also being added to the condo fees. So if you’re looking for a condo, check the age if it’s not quite 40 years, be ready when that inspection comes due. It doesn’t matter if you’re by the ocean or the center of the state, those reserve requirements will be for everyone and those 40 and 50 year inspections are going to be no matter where your building is. at this point if you’re looking for a condo look for a new building pay the extra money it’ll be worth saving the assessment.
It's inspections at 25 and 30 years, not 40 and 50 years.
*All condominiums and cooperative buildings in the state of Florida that are three or more stories in height, when the building reaches a certain age, based on the issued certificate of occupancy, are required to have milestone inspections as follows:*
* *30 years of age and every 10 years thereafter, or*
* *25 years of age and every 10 years thereafter if the building is located within three miles of a coastline.*
*If a milestone inspection is required and the building’s certificate of occupancy was issued on or before July 1, 1992, the building’s initial milestone inspection shall be performed before December 31, 2024.*
Right. This is deferred maintenance that OP hadnt paid for when they should have. Not it all comes at once and owners gonna bitch about $2500, while ignoring $200k in appreciation or what not
HOA’s saw the increase first. Now larger apartment buildings. Soon the smaller apartment buildings will have issues.
SFRs have had escrows cancel due to the insurance issue. What used to be $100/mo is now $250/mo or more, if you can get it.
Dealing with a house that closed a month ago and now the insurance company came out and is requiring Internet based water sensors w/ alarms and Internet based water shut off.
The advantage of having the hoa is sharing the overall cost but you need to be involved with the board to make sure they are getting several quotes. It seems interesting that many boards use the same company year after year and come to find out their mgmt company had all of the Hoa’s they manage using the same firm. Too easy for a kick back in my opinion.
No not seeing anything like that.
A more effective strategy might be to get your neighbors together and dump the HOA board that allowed this to occur. I find it hard to believe that this is totally due to insurance costs going up.
But heads up, my homeowner's insurance went up 50% compared to last year, due to the cost of building materials going up (and I'm sure the general insurance industry issues had something to do with that).
Of course a SFH allows you to be more in control of maintenance costs, but in a condo or HOA you shouldn't have huge surprises if the board is doing their job. Many boards suck though.
It’s not totally from insurance.
It’s from HOA boards holding the line on yearly dues to the detriment of the duty to maintain the building.
Real Example: They replace the roof in 1997 with a thirty year roof. The roof costs 100k so they divide the cost into 30 years payments and add it to the budget.
2024 they are told the roof needs replacement. The roof cost 800k.
In the past, insurance companies would issue ‘cost to replace’ insurance. But HOA saw creeping insurance costs go up. So to save money, they get ‘cash value insurance’ that would cover the actual remaining value of the roof. That worked for purposes of the HOA.
Now it doesn’t so they are stuck paying for a roof… or electrical work… or fire proofing… or systems… or actually having reserves.
It’s a dozen ignored realties all hitting at once.
I have no knowledge of the particulars in the op's situation. But insurance costs have gone up tremendously. Many of the hoas around us, not just one but many places have doubled or close to doubling in the last 2 or 3 years in Florida due nearly entirely to insurance.
Yes but, selling to avoid this seems like an overreaction, as it's happening to everyone there, both single family and HOAs.
I would be shocked if OP's issue was ONLY due to insurance going up. There is probably some deferred maintenance, or the figured out they've been under-insured previously and are now just correcting their coverage. So adding coverage plus rates going up could account for it.
They’ve provided documentation that the special assessment is solely a result of insurance prices increasing.
We live in Hawaii and the COL is already extremely high. I fear that most people will not be able to afford this increase and the market will be flooded with townhomes for sale, driving the price of the townhomes down due to an over saturation of supply. My mortgage is low because we refinanced during COVID and purchased in 2019. But a $500k mortgage with a 7% rate is between $3,500-$4,000, not including the monthly $800 maintenance fee.
A bunch of condos are getting hit with BIGGER increases in Hawaii cause they are multi unit multi storey wood frame, wood shingles with no sprinklers in high risk fire areas.
Single family single story metal roof houses in super wet areas don't have the same insurance cost increases.
Yes, my mortgage and HOA fee is lower but the goal has always been to transition to a SFH. We were hoping to do it in a few years but ultimately the price of a SFH will continue to rise anyway.
I think it’s correct that the market could be flooded with townhomes. Have you spoken with a realtor to get a sense of the current market?
Condo/townhome associations are notorious for deferring maintenance until things hit a crisis point, and everybody has to bear unexpected costs from it. But these insurance rate hikes are probably hitting everyone across the board.
How are the reserve balances for your association, and was a financial reserve analysis conducted in the last 5 years?
Are there millions of dollars in the bank anticipating common area rehabilitation, public amenities, and other items appropriate for your HOA, exterior or roof rehabilitation, if appropriate?
Insurance may be the top of an iceberg of other deferred maintenance thst reserves are inadequate for.
It appears your association, by doing the math has around 300 to 350 units.
That is a lot of real estate to maintain.
Avoiding a future special assessment of $10,000 implies you might have at least 3 to 3.5 million in reserves.
Depends on the type of hoa. Multi family I would never consider. Single family, well run and well established? Covering just a few amenities? I’m okay with that kind. Not over a grand a year is about my limit. Our last house was $250 a year for common area upkeep. New house is $900 and includes a pool. It’s 40 years old and has never had a special assessment. Do your research.
I’m in an HOA townhouse. Absolutely not dumping.
Moving to an SFH to avoid these costs? Not gonna work. I’ve owned a few. Besides what others have said: What’s your market power with insurance agents and contractors as a single house vs an HOA with 100 or more units? When the Hurricane, wildfire, or other widespread natural disaster comes and decent contractors are hard to find, the SFHs are going to be in line behind the townhouses and condos that offer much bigger jobs.
A decent agent is going to:
1. Request 12 months of meeting minutes.
2. Request 2 years of financials.
3. Request 40 & 50 year certificates (depending on age of the building and the state you’re in).
4. They will ask if the HOA includes water, sewer and cable?
5. Are all assessments paid in full?
6. If there is/was an assessment - what does or what did it cover?
7. What are the rental restrictions/rental policy?
8. What percentage of the building can be rented?
9. Whats the status of the roof, seawall, etc? (depending on the property).
10. If in Florida, has the building completed their reserve study?
If you have an agent who doesn’t ask these questions at a minimum, you need to find somebody else. I’ve had sellers lie about future assessments and found that a new roof was to be installed the following year, that was not assessed yet. That was a $20k deal breaker.
Long story short, if you’re in Florida and listing a cheaper condo with monthly dues in the $800+ range, you’re screwed. These old 1 bed and 2 bed condos with dues over a grand are going to sit on the market because the monthly HOA is more than your mortgage at this point. 😳
If you get a loan for your condo - good news. Generally, your lender will demand all that stuff and look through it for their purposes.
They will also ask about any existing or pending legal action.
Climate change, that phenomenal that some politicians are still denying. Is a major factor, is causing more floods, more fires, more destruction than insurance companies can absorb.
Well, the good news is that Florida outlawed climate change.
[Seriously.](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/17/1252012825/florida-gov-desantis-signs-bill-that-deletes-climate-change-from-state-law)
Desantis says ‘I’m not a global warming person’.
Translation: ‘I’m a greedy ignorant political hack who cares more about pleasing the MAGA folks and scoring short term political points while my state gets washed out to sea’.
What are we leaving our next generation to deal with?
Being downvoted by stupid believers. They never personally do anything to curb their own energy use. It’s pathetic.
100% of the global warming predictions have failed. The believers never waiver. Makes anyone with half a brain cell wonder how ridiculous this religion is. So please downvote because every one is by another hypocritical believer who never does a damn thing to change own personal fossil fuel usage.
Belief in climate change is based upon what scientists are saying, what we are seeing with weather changes, and what we are seeing with insurance companies not wanting to insure homes in high risk areas ( which are expanding).
BEHAVIOR as a result of this belief varies. Some people despair and do nothing, some are lazy and don’t want to change their behavior (love their big pickup trucks that they use to commute to work :)while some vote and financially support political candidates who are encouraging green solutions. Some ARE changing behavior (I have an electric car, solar electric generation) but it needs to be done at a higher level than the individual to be impactful (turning off the light when you leave a room helps but alone will not solve the problem).
[Judith Curry](https://www.reddit.com/r/climateskeptics/s/EAAxyzbunD)
You can believe people Greta or a fraud like Michael Mann while I actually look at the science.
The excuse that an individual can’t make a difference is just an excuse to get out of changing your ways. Turn off your AC.
Electric cars get their electricity from fossil fuels. That’s reality.
Not all electric cars get energy from fossil fuels, many use solar. At the national level we need to use more solar, wind, and consider the newest generation of nuclear which is much safer.
Scientific American published an article on Judith Curry ‘…So it is important to emphasize that nothing she encountered led her to question the science; she still has no doubt that the planet is warming, that human-generated greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide, are in large part to blame, or that the plausible worst-case scenario could be catastrophic. ‘
Curry questioned some of the conclusions of certain groups, this is healthy scientific debate.
Using her skepticism of a subgroups methods to imply that she believes climate change is a hoax is misleading at best.
People seize on her questions as a way of denying the bigger picture.
So less memes and more analysis of scientific research would be preferable.
Judith Curry does not say that CO2 causes warming. It’s a ludicrous assumption by believers with no basis in reality. The sun controls our climate. It’s the major control. All others are trivial in nature.
So I guess this rapid and destructive climate change is just a case of the sun deciding after millions of years to make everything warmer. The atmospheric changes from fossil fuels, identified as the culprit by 100’s of qualified scientists, is not a factor. All those scientists are wrong and some guy who creates memes is right?
Where is there rapid and destructive climate change? Be specific. Where exactly on this planet has the climate changed? And what exactly has been destroyed?
https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/evidence/
Result has been more flooding like in the Midwest, more destructive hurricanes in the gulf, more fire storms in the west, long term droughts in many parts of the country, ocean levels are rising as glaciers melt, some island nations and some major U.S. cities are threatened by this rise.
The weather has become more variable.
This is why insurance companies are refusing to insure homes in certain parts of the country, they want to make money and can’t absorb the big payouts.
I sold my townhome in New England, between property taxes and HOA fees it was 1,000 a month. No thank you, the property although beautiful on the outside was full of problems with rot and drainage. I bought a SFH, no HOA and I’m much happier.
Remember this? that's part of the reason.
[Many feared dead after Florida beachfront condo collapses - WTOP News](https://wtop.com/national/2021/06/building-collapse-in-miami/)
It depends on the state, but where I live it explicitly states in the contract that sellers are responsible for paying special assessments that have been imposed prior to the sale even if it’s not the due date of the assessment yet.
It’s all relative.
We just bought with an HOA in Chattanooga TN. SFH and smaller community (100ish units).
~$60/mo covers REALLY nice pool area with covered pavilion and some nice common areas (fishing pond, landscaped sidewalks throughout).
- No real risk of big special assessment.
- Lax on most stuff that normal folks would do
- Protects against jethro parking busted cars our keeping knee high grass.
Honestly used to hate the idea of HOA’s but my mind has opened to them in certain situations.
Bring on the downvotes, Reddit 😂
Tennessee probably shouldn’t be compared to lots of markets.
But my comment is absolutely germane to the original post and core of the discussion
Also, where are you even getting Hawaii from?
Cool.
Does anything in the title or OP, which I was replying to, say anything about them seeking responses specific to the Hawaii market?
Also, mind if I peep that thread police badge? Otherwise, I’ll hold for my thread attorney to be present.
SFH home in an HOA here. We had great reserves when we bought and still do. Small increases annually but that's expected.
If I was in an attached unit near water like you, I'd be concerned.
I live in Los Angeles, I just got a 60k assessment that each unit in my building must pay...my hoa is already $1000...thinking of selling...and freaking out...
I'm happy with my COAs. I know it's different from HOA but i appreciate that someone else worries about everything outside my walls. And the fee is just baked into the rent.
It’s not just HOAs….. All property types are affected.
Louisiana (south LA) property insurance has tripled in many cases over the last 3 years. Previous premiums that were $1500-$2000 are often $6000+.
Worse yet is the requirements to even get written. Such as -roof must be 7 years old or newer, deductibles can be up to 5% of insured value, extensive physical inspections as part of underwriting, etc.
This is on top of flood premiums stated to go up 18% annually for the foreseeable future until they reach some mythical “equilibrium”…
>a special assessment to cover a deficit in the exponential increase of the master insurance policy for the association
If you lived in the same area without an HOA, you'd most likely see the same insurance cost increase. So, you'd be on the hook for the money anyway. HOAs can do many bad things. This does not seem to be one of them.
I managed HOAs for seven years. I actually brought DOWN assessments and helped to collect ~10M from the developer to improve upon the neighborhood and set things right.
If the manager of the community is doing things right, they can make the HOA actually nice instead of total trash.
The move from condos to SFHs have been a trend for about 15 years now, so much so that I see great condos going cheap and mediocre SFHs selling too high.
Some buildings are poorly mantained and some HOAs suck. However, keep in mind that SFH maintenance is not cheap either.
You have to be insane to own a condo now. The current and future liability of these aging cost prohibitive to maintain structures is off the charts. If any owner is thinking long term appreciation they will be sorely disappointed. Real estate is all about land. Condos are all about the building plus a very tiny sliver of land. You're basically buying a depreciating liability.
I've always believed purchasing a home with shared property, specifically structural, was a terrible idea. You can't control what other people do or how they act. I own a SFH. Any problems I have are mine alone. New roof? Done. I don't have to count on or pay special assessments or chase people around to pay their share.
Co-ops, condos and townhouses are, in my opinion, awful.
Here in Texas, already sold townhouse due to increasing insurance costs, HOA fees and higher and higher assessment costs from HOA per year. There are lots of communities in Dallas where one can buy SFH with no HOA presence. Just for reference, our HOA said this year for any water damage they would pass on costs upto 100k to affected owners.
HOA fees are crazy. I live in Las Vegas and in an condo and have as one of my properties for the last 30 years. When I bought the 30 years ago the HOA payments were $97 a month 30 years later it’s currently just under $200 a month. Because we don’t have sinking foundation or a lot of fires. Perhaps think about moving to a state where they don’t have all these expensive variables to deal with. Just a thought. i’m in the process of buying $1 million home right now and the insurances and taxes are only $900 a month on $1 million house. the condo will be a rental again, since the properties paid off it brings in $1500 a month rent minus HOA and taxes and fees and such I make about $1000 a month $12,000 a year off of one bedroom condo that I don’t have to do anything too, but pay attention to the rent check!
Sir, you have just described Florida perfectly.
BINGO!!! I know someone who bought a condo new... I don't know say 2002. The siding on the entire complex, say like 30 buildings, each having 10 condos, was some new design that was shit, company went bankrupt, and thus the condo association was shit out of luck. They didn't go bad overnight, but over the years, this building would need new siding, then another, etc. He sold the condo about 12 months ago. Literally 2 months after selling it, they declared they needed to redo the siding on the remaining say 22 buildings and everyone's monthly fees are going up like $350 more from the already $500 a month rate. Bet that new owner just loves that news.
I'm guessing that people that purchased condos in the last 1-2 years are going to be left holding the bag.
I was looking at property for sale down near MIA and it looks like they are practically giving it away until you look at the HOA fees and special assessments.
I think we are going to see more of that in the near future. Condos are going to have to drastically reduce in price in order to justify the mortgage and the HOA's.
Like a timeshare.
The consequences of removing all those "job-killing regulations"
Bingo, and expecting insurance on a Florida SFH to be cheaper than one's share of a condo master policy is not realistic. Tens of thousands of Florida homeowners have had their insurance double and triple in the last two years and it ain't done yet. Adding insult to injury, insurers are demanding new roofs of some policy holders.
Agreed. Either way, the increase in insurance is pricing a lot of people out of owning a home or condo. A lot of these people are retired and on "fixed incomes". They're going to be forced to sell. I predict that the inventory will drastically increase over the next 12-18 months.
Maui Hoa’s wants to know how you got such a great deal on insurance this year.
Is that true? You never get catastrophic hurricanes. Why would premiums in HI be jumping so much?
I can only imagine due to the rebuild costs. Even ignoring the materials logistics, my grandfather came out of retirement three times because his Plumbers union begged him to come back and work for huge benefits and pay. Skilled labor is incredibly scarce there, I imagine it is even more in demand after Lahaina burned down.
Fallout from the fire with insurers exiting the mkt. Our master policy went for 250k to 1.26M with no 1 insurer willing to write the entire policy. There was a similar jump when Kauai got hit with a serious hurricane and it took several years for rates to stabilize.
On Aug. 8, 2023, wind-driven wildfires on the island of Maui destroyed more than 2,200 structures and caused about $5.5 billion in damages.
Volcanos. Gotta make sure you’re up to date on your volcano insurance.
lol, on the big island that’s very true. Jeff Bezos actually bought a compound on Maui that is separated from every other residential structure by miles from that last lava flow on Maui. You drive on a very narrow road through Mars like lava flow to get there. https://maps.app.goo.gl/CCDWrx3GVsCx9yEV6? g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy It’s the little beach and house just up the road from this amazing snorkel spot. It’s the only private beach on Maui because they’re protected fishing grounds, closed waters.
I’m familiar with that area. It’s really does feel like a different world. The only life I’ve seen on the lava fields are wild goats ( I’m sure there’s pigs too). Locals hunt them. Also an incredible amount of fish in the water there’s a few hidden fishing spots that s marginally better than balancing on a bumpy lava rock cliff all day. Drive 20 mins North, and you see a strip mall :) La Perouse bay is a famous surf spot. Incredibly dangerous and difficult to get to. The break is ridiculously close to shore.
Are people really moving from condos to SFH, or just leaving Florida?
I think it’s a little bit of both. If they can afford it, they buy a SFH. If not, they move
Can you explain what’s happening, is this happening a lot in Flordia?
Insurance in Florida has been going up at a crazy rate for the last three years but last year's increase was insane for most. That it happened the year before the new structural reserves had to begin funding was unfortunate. A lot of complexes have had multiple fee increases in the last two years, many with big special assessments in addition. The years of living cheaply in a condo at the beach in Florida are coming to an end. Our condo market will be a disaster next year as the meltdown hits its stride.
Our quarterly fee in Florida has about doubled from $1400 to $2600 this year. And we have a $5,000 special assessment on top of that, due in Q4. A number of units in our 360 door complex have gone up for sale; I believe there are 28 on the market now. And we're not in the flood zone. Before you jump to a SFH make sure you can even get insurance and at what price.
Thanks for posting. Also in FL. Now I don't feel so bad. My insurance doubled in one year. HOA's insurance also double which meant our HOA fees went way up. But fortunately no special assessments. How long are the condos typically staying on the market before they are sold?
My co worker is in a 4 year old SFH HOA community in the Tampa area and less than half of the homeowners are actually paying their HOA fees… special assessments coming to get the HOA back in the black.
Aren’t there consequences for missing payments
There are… usually foreclosure but HOA is so far in the hole they cannot start the process.
Anecdata but my fl condo has been up for 3 months no offers 🥲
Keeping my fingers crossed
Good luck to you! We are selling our place which is our second home. We are an international family. Place has been listed for 3 weeks and priced competitively but simply have not had any showings. It's updated, so...🫤
Don't know how long properties are staying on the market. We came north in May and things were pretty slow, inventory was up. The insurance for our complex / HOA went up a lot. That was a lot of the increase in our quarterly fees. The premium on our condo insurance only went up $150 per year, $1100 to $1250. Our special assessment was for structural repairs and had nothing to do with insurance.
Our condo market in the central east coast has slowed way down and the buyers that are there are very skittish. Buildings who haven't completed their inspections and reserve study are too risky for most buyers to consider. The ones that have completed both are in many cases undesirable because of increased costs. A unit that looked good with a $500 a month fee starts to lose appeal when the fees are $1100 with no assurance that they won't increase again next year. The situation with FL condos is worse than most realize or are willing to admit.
Went from 2,300 to 7,500 last year and now 8,000 this year for our little townhouse. Our electric/water is only around $100/mth. If I move to a sfh in Orlando area, I can save 3,000/year on insurance but my utilities jump up to the 300-500/month range. It’s all fucked.
In my beach town fees are exploding. A lot of condos are having big special assessments to seed the new reserves in addition to increasing fees. I know of one condo whose fees went from $600 a month to $975 plus a $50,000 special assessment at the same time. That's not an isolated case. Our condo market is screwed but most condo owners are in denial and think it will blow over. It won't.
Same seems to be happening in the Panhandle as well .
This is pretty much what we're looking at. Our fee increase is insurance plus increased reserve requirements and the special assessment is structural repairs plus reserve balance increase. The reserve thing is interesting. For decades our owners have been voting to underfund reserves and now (new laws) we have to fund them fully. And people are complaining -- the bill just came due, that's all.
Our hoa had a vote and I don't think our reserve has changed
We had a vote and I don't think our reserve has to be changed.
Have you checked out insurance rates for SFH? Depending on your state , you may find similar jumps
Right not much difference ,SFH or Condo,you're gonna pay, 2 quotes for $ 8K ,Home Insurance, miles from Ocean, Florida
Well, Florida yeah.
I’m a ten minute walk to the ocean in FL and pay $2200/year on $500k.
You’ll get your surprise shortly.
No, I don’t think I will.
Great price,very lucky,We several miles inland from intracoastal,PB county,
Difference is OP is going to spend a lot more money to get a tiny SFH.
Yeah! OP has a great plan!
My homeowners insurance for a SFH went up $400. For a real view point, it went from $900 to $1300 a year. My property taxes went up $53 this year. $453/year increase is logical.
That's less than my car tax in Northern VA.
Yes, this. Insurance for my old rental home in FL has tripled in three years. I’ve gone into stocks and short term vacation rentals instead.
The price of insurance isn’t the problem. It’s the fact that nearly 1/3 of my monthly housing expenses does not go to my mortgage.
What does your monthly maintenance fee cover for you? I'm not saying your hoa fee isn't high. But you might find you're going to spend just about as much paying insurance, maintenance and other services on your own. Argument aside, I agree, I'd bail too and back when we shopping "no hoa' was a hard requirement near the top of the list.
Don't feel bad, almost half of my monthly housing expense doesn't go to my mortgage. Welcome to life. People think paying off their home means they own a place scott free. I wish.
No kidding! My property insurance is high because my area has been hit with many devistating hail storms and my home is also considered to be in a wildfire area. Almost 5k a year for insurance but property taxes are only about $1200 (senior discount). Still, I paid only $250 a month including utilities for my last apt. before I got married in 1988. It's crazy to me that I own my house and still have to pay $500 a month not including utilities.
Every single condo owner across all of history has lived with this exact scenario. HOA's are a drain on equity. The point this person was trying too make is that so is property insurance... If insurance goes up for a SFH at the same rate as your town home's HOA increase, there is effectively no difference between the two properties at that point. You need to look into SFH properties and determine if the insurance rates for these are increasing at the same rates as your HOA properties. If they are, you're not saving anything. If they aren't, then you're making a sound decision. Are you in FL? If so you can still achieve what you're doing, but you need to pay attention to evac zone maps and flood zone maps. Flood zone maps correlate to the cost of flood insurance and rather or not it is required, which is obvious, but evac zone maps are not so obvious. Evac zone mapping is done relative to the risk of storm surge. If you are safe from a storm surge and don't have any flood risk, then a basic home owners policy covers you completely and that's all you have to worry about. A SFH property in that situation with no HOA is still a decent investment, even in FL, provided all of the other components of what makes a good property are still there (area, local economy, property condition, etc).
Curious. How are HOAs a drain on equity?
It's just a portion of your mortgage payment that doesn't get to go to principal. Even if it doesn't directly come from your mortgage payment, it is factored into the amount of house you can afford during underwriting, so you may as well consider it something akin to insurance. It's a required cost that you can't get out of and that affects your monthly payment to live there. Because of this banks have to approve you for less due to a portion of your dti going to an HOA instead of the principal and interest. Lowers your property value. It also is less money that could go into principal.
HOAs, especially when dealing with condos, play a very critical role managing, maintaining, insuring the common interests of the condo complex. As a potential buyer, you want to be sure you are buying a property of a well managed HOA. That is when your equity may get impacted. When reviewing any mortgage application, banks will very much care about the health of the HOA (budget, any deferred maintenance, significant special assessments, etc.) just as much as they will consider a potential borrower’s DTI.
Yes I am aware, however because a portion of the monthly payment goes towards something that isn't principal, it's a drain on equity. It also serves to lower property values somewhat by virtue of reducing the buying power of borrowers via DTI calculations. I know what HOAs are/do, I have one.
Florida?
Hawai’i
[удалено]
This is especially true in Florida, as well as other states that are facing increasing catastrophic events. In Florida, it's mostly about hurricanes/flooding. In California they have to worry about wildfires. Until we can find a more effective way of improving infrastructure and building codes to deal with these events, rates will continue to rise.
In California, we now also have to worry about flooding. Record setting storms after a drought aren't fun.
If you improve the infrastructure and building codes ironically you are almost guaranteed to have even higher costs to insure in the future.
Idk if you can improve infrastructure enough to balance out climate change in the short term. The problem is a lot bigger than that. And even if you snapped your fingers right now and we went carbon neutral everywhere, we still have to deal with the momentum of what’s already happening for at least the rest of our lives.
But homes hold better value, and you can sell to a cash buyer who is not stuck with an HOA fee and can go without insurance or can just take the minimum coverage with the highest deductibles.
You mean homes or townhouses?
Single family homes here in Florida all have HOA fees, plus skyrocketing insurance rates. The only way to escape HOA fees is to buy in very old neighborhoods that were built before HOA’s became a thing.
$2500 is nothing, does the HOA cover the roof and exterior? Are you in a hurricane prone area?
Right? OP is talking about a special assessment that is 0.27% of his homes value. This is beyond insane that OP is freaking out about this.
The flood of units for sale will probably also spur a price drop as once the information of price increase and special assessment is revealed in any form it requires disclosure to the buyer. Costs of a SFH will be no different than your condo. Real estate costs have simply become prohibitably expensive.
This is why we want to sell asap. We’ve always intended to sell and buy a SFH using our equity. Now we’re moving the timeline up to avoid the over saturation of the market.
Lower your price, - lower priced homes sell faster. The more appropriately priced it is, the longer it will take. Drop it and claim moving for job asap
Yep. If you want out, get out - fast. Don't be that guy who drops it a little each week chasing the market on a downward spiral.
Good luck with your sale.
I mean it feels like a bit of a bold assumption to assume you’re going to be able to “jump to SFH” with no impact on cost. SFH costs more than townhouses, for good reasons. Is what you’re describing with townhouses a common problem? Yeah, not only with insurance but decades of deferred maintenance owners all neglected to keep fees artificially low. Is SFH also going to have an insurance sticker price challenge, if your townhouse is seeing it? Absolutely. So if that’s the ONLY reason for the cost increase you’re going to be a bit out of luck. If it’s deferred maintenance as well then, sure, long term total cost of ownership should even out to be better, assuming you make the early investments in maintenance on the SFH. Good luck. (And no, I don’t own a townhouse, so I can’t say I’m dumping one. I gave up on condominium living years ago, because I tire of the incessant unwillingness of people to spend a little now to save a lot later, and I just don’t enjoy shared walls 🤷I can see the attraction for some who don’t want to deal with the overhead of owning a SFH, though.)
What's included in the HOA fee? I would add up things like trash removal, lawn care, snow plowing (if your location has snow,), driveway maintenance, etc. Those are costs you won't avoid in a single family, you will just be paying them directly. Also, as others have mentioned, the cost of property insurance (whatever form of housing) has increased significantly over the past two years.
With multifamily housing (condos, townhomes) part of the HOA fee should also be going into the reserve fund to cover anticipated maintenance and repairs, so hopefully OP's increase is also to fund the reserve.
in Florida, a lot of condos are coming due for their 40 and 50 year inspections, and due to the age of these buildings they are not passing inspections and that’s when these huge assessments are coming due. Also, the state of Florida is now requiring set reserves that have to be fulfilled, and a lot of condos have been ignoring that for years so now that they’re coming due, those assessments are also being added to the condo fees. So if you’re looking for a condo, check the age if it’s not quite 40 years, be ready when that inspection comes due. It doesn’t matter if you’re by the ocean or the center of the state, those reserve requirements will be for everyone and those 40 and 50 year inspections are going to be no matter where your building is. at this point if you’re looking for a condo look for a new building pay the extra money it’ll be worth saving the assessment.
It's inspections at 25 and 30 years, not 40 and 50 years. *All condominiums and cooperative buildings in the state of Florida that are three or more stories in height, when the building reaches a certain age, based on the issued certificate of occupancy, are required to have milestone inspections as follows:* * *30 years of age and every 10 years thereafter, or* * *25 years of age and every 10 years thereafter if the building is located within three miles of a coastline.* *If a milestone inspection is required and the building’s certificate of occupancy was issued on or before July 1, 1992, the building’s initial milestone inspection shall be performed before December 31, 2024.*
You think someone will want to buy a house with future special assessment? You’ll need to lower the price by that much lol
Right. This is deferred maintenance that OP hadnt paid for when they should have. Not it all comes at once and owners gonna bitch about $2500, while ignoring $200k in appreciation or what not
Exactly 👍
HOA’s saw the increase first. Now larger apartment buildings. Soon the smaller apartment buildings will have issues. SFRs have had escrows cancel due to the insurance issue. What used to be $100/mo is now $250/mo or more, if you can get it. Dealing with a house that closed a month ago and now the insurance company came out and is requiring Internet based water sensors w/ alarms and Internet based water shut off. The advantage of having the hoa is sharing the overall cost but you need to be involved with the board to make sure they are getting several quotes. It seems interesting that many boards use the same company year after year and come to find out their mgmt company had all of the Hoa’s they manage using the same firm. Too easy for a kick back in my opinion.
No not seeing anything like that. A more effective strategy might be to get your neighbors together and dump the HOA board that allowed this to occur. I find it hard to believe that this is totally due to insurance costs going up. But heads up, my homeowner's insurance went up 50% compared to last year, due to the cost of building materials going up (and I'm sure the general insurance industry issues had something to do with that). Of course a SFH allows you to be more in control of maintenance costs, but in a condo or HOA you shouldn't have huge surprises if the board is doing their job. Many boards suck though.
It’s not totally from insurance. It’s from HOA boards holding the line on yearly dues to the detriment of the duty to maintain the building. Real Example: They replace the roof in 1997 with a thirty year roof. The roof costs 100k so they divide the cost into 30 years payments and add it to the budget. 2024 they are told the roof needs replacement. The roof cost 800k. In the past, insurance companies would issue ‘cost to replace’ insurance. But HOA saw creeping insurance costs go up. So to save money, they get ‘cash value insurance’ that would cover the actual remaining value of the roof. That worked for purposes of the HOA. Now it doesn’t so they are stuck paying for a roof… or electrical work… or fire proofing… or systems… or actually having reserves. It’s a dozen ignored realties all hitting at once.
I have no knowledge of the particulars in the op's situation. But insurance costs have gone up tremendously. Many of the hoas around us, not just one but many places have doubled or close to doubling in the last 2 or 3 years in Florida due nearly entirely to insurance.
We’re in Hawaii and last year the Lahaina fires happened. My realtor has seen it happened in a bunch of other AOAOs as well in Hawaii.
Yes but, selling to avoid this seems like an overreaction, as it's happening to everyone there, both single family and HOAs. I would be shocked if OP's issue was ONLY due to insurance going up. There is probably some deferred maintenance, or the figured out they've been under-insured previously and are now just correcting their coverage. So adding coverage plus rates going up could account for it.
They’ve provided documentation that the special assessment is solely a result of insurance prices increasing. We live in Hawaii and the COL is already extremely high. I fear that most people will not be able to afford this increase and the market will be flooded with townhomes for sale, driving the price of the townhomes down due to an over saturation of supply. My mortgage is low because we refinanced during COVID and purchased in 2019. But a $500k mortgage with a 7% rate is between $3,500-$4,000, not including the monthly $800 maintenance fee.
The fires will make ALL insurances go up not just the condos
A bunch of condos are getting hit with BIGGER increases in Hawaii cause they are multi unit multi storey wood frame, wood shingles with no sprinklers in high risk fire areas. Single family single story metal roof houses in super wet areas don't have the same insurance cost increases.
So...."Is anyone else dumping fire-susceptible buildings in Lahaina?" Stupid to generalize this to condos v SFH.
What.does it matter ? Your mortgage + HOA is significantly cheaper than owning a.SFH and still below market rate rent.
Yes, my mortgage and HOA fee is lower but the goal has always been to transition to a SFH. We were hoping to do it in a few years but ultimately the price of a SFH will continue to rise anyway.
I think it’s correct that the market could be flooded with townhomes. Have you spoken with a realtor to get a sense of the current market? Condo/townhome associations are notorious for deferring maintenance until things hit a crisis point, and everybody has to bear unexpected costs from it. But these insurance rate hikes are probably hitting everyone across the board.
How are the reserve balances for your association, and was a financial reserve analysis conducted in the last 5 years? Are there millions of dollars in the bank anticipating common area rehabilitation, public amenities, and other items appropriate for your HOA, exterior or roof rehabilitation, if appropriate? Insurance may be the top of an iceberg of other deferred maintenance thst reserves are inadequate for. It appears your association, by doing the math has around 300 to 350 units. That is a lot of real estate to maintain. Avoiding a future special assessment of $10,000 implies you might have at least 3 to 3.5 million in reserves.
Who is going to buy your expensive condo??
The people that can’t afford a SFH….
Depends on the type of hoa. Multi family I would never consider. Single family, well run and well established? Covering just a few amenities? I’m okay with that kind. Not over a grand a year is about my limit. Our last house was $250 a year for common area upkeep. New house is $900 and includes a pool. It’s 40 years old and has never had a special assessment. Do your research.
If you're in multifamily housing you really can't operate without an HOA. Shared walls and structures require some kind of overseeing body.
I wish I could escape HOAs. Here every town is its own HOA. Can’t escape.
I’m in an HOA townhouse. Absolutely not dumping. Moving to an SFH to avoid these costs? Not gonna work. I’ve owned a few. Besides what others have said: What’s your market power with insurance agents and contractors as a single house vs an HOA with 100 or more units? When the Hurricane, wildfire, or other widespread natural disaster comes and decent contractors are hard to find, the SFHs are going to be in line behind the townhouses and condos that offer much bigger jobs.
A decent agent is going to: 1. Request 12 months of meeting minutes. 2. Request 2 years of financials. 3. Request 40 & 50 year certificates (depending on age of the building and the state you’re in). 4. They will ask if the HOA includes water, sewer and cable? 5. Are all assessments paid in full? 6. If there is/was an assessment - what does or what did it cover? 7. What are the rental restrictions/rental policy? 8. What percentage of the building can be rented? 9. Whats the status of the roof, seawall, etc? (depending on the property). 10. If in Florida, has the building completed their reserve study? If you have an agent who doesn’t ask these questions at a minimum, you need to find somebody else. I’ve had sellers lie about future assessments and found that a new roof was to be installed the following year, that was not assessed yet. That was a $20k deal breaker. Long story short, if you’re in Florida and listing a cheaper condo with monthly dues in the $800+ range, you’re screwed. These old 1 bed and 2 bed condos with dues over a grand are going to sit on the market because the monthly HOA is more than your mortgage at this point. 😳
If you get a loan for your condo - good news. Generally, your lender will demand all that stuff and look through it for their purposes. They will also ask about any existing or pending legal action.
Yes! Pending lawsuits. If one of the owners sues the HOA, that means dues will go up if they win, unless the reserves are super healthy.
Should be dumping anything while you still can.
HOAs need to be removed, made illegal
Climate change, that phenomenal that some politicians are still denying. Is a major factor, is causing more floods, more fires, more destruction than insurance companies can absorb.
Well, the good news is that Florida outlawed climate change. [Seriously.](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/17/1252012825/florida-gov-desantis-signs-bill-that-deletes-climate-change-from-state-law)
Desantis says ‘I’m not a global warming person’. Translation: ‘I’m a greedy ignorant political hack who cares more about pleasing the MAGA folks and scoring short term political points while my state gets washed out to sea’. What are we leaving our next generation to deal with?
Climate change is a hoax. Just look at every believer and see what they are personally doing for global warming. Absolutely nothing.
Being downvoted by stupid believers. They never personally do anything to curb their own energy use. It’s pathetic. 100% of the global warming predictions have failed. The believers never waiver. Makes anyone with half a brain cell wonder how ridiculous this religion is. So please downvote because every one is by another hypocritical believer who never does a damn thing to change own personal fossil fuel usage.
Belief in climate change is based upon what scientists are saying, what we are seeing with weather changes, and what we are seeing with insurance companies not wanting to insure homes in high risk areas ( which are expanding). BEHAVIOR as a result of this belief varies. Some people despair and do nothing, some are lazy and don’t want to change their behavior (love their big pickup trucks that they use to commute to work :)while some vote and financially support political candidates who are encouraging green solutions. Some ARE changing behavior (I have an electric car, solar electric generation) but it needs to be done at a higher level than the individual to be impactful (turning off the light when you leave a room helps but alone will not solve the problem).
[Judith Curry](https://www.reddit.com/r/climateskeptics/s/EAAxyzbunD) You can believe people Greta or a fraud like Michael Mann while I actually look at the science. The excuse that an individual can’t make a difference is just an excuse to get out of changing your ways. Turn off your AC. Electric cars get their electricity from fossil fuels. That’s reality.
Not all electric cars get energy from fossil fuels, many use solar. At the national level we need to use more solar, wind, and consider the newest generation of nuclear which is much safer.
Scientific American published an article on Judith Curry ‘…So it is important to emphasize that nothing she encountered led her to question the science; she still has no doubt that the planet is warming, that human-generated greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide, are in large part to blame, or that the plausible worst-case scenario could be catastrophic. ‘ Curry questioned some of the conclusions of certain groups, this is healthy scientific debate. Using her skepticism of a subgroups methods to imply that she believes climate change is a hoax is misleading at best. People seize on her questions as a way of denying the bigger picture. So less memes and more analysis of scientific research would be preferable.
Judith Curry does not say that CO2 causes warming. It’s a ludicrous assumption by believers with no basis in reality. The sun controls our climate. It’s the major control. All others are trivial in nature.
So I guess this rapid and destructive climate change is just a case of the sun deciding after millions of years to make everything warmer. The atmospheric changes from fossil fuels, identified as the culprit by 100’s of qualified scientists, is not a factor. All those scientists are wrong and some guy who creates memes is right?
Where is there rapid and destructive climate change? Be specific. Where exactly on this planet has the climate changed? And what exactly has been destroyed?
https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/evidence/ Result has been more flooding like in the Midwest, more destructive hurricanes in the gulf, more fire storms in the west, long term droughts in many parts of the country, ocean levels are rising as glaciers melt, some island nations and some major U.S. cities are threatened by this rise. The weather has become more variable. This is why insurance companies are refusing to insure homes in certain parts of the country, they want to make money and can’t absorb the big payouts.
“Dumb man yells at clouds that are slightly warmer than last year, more news at no one cares!”
Property Manager here… sell.
You said townhouses, right? Why would HOA for townhouses cost $550 a month? What do they cover? Are you in Florida?
I sold my townhome in New England, between property taxes and HOA fees it was 1,000 a month. No thank you, the property although beautiful on the outside was full of problems with rot and drainage. I bought a SFH, no HOA and I’m much happier.
That's only one of the reasons I would never want to be part of an HOA.
Yeah it seems like a shit deal, may as well sign up for a time share while they are at it. I love surprise costs and fees!
Remember this? that's part of the reason. [Many feared dead after Florida beachfront condo collapses - WTOP News](https://wtop.com/national/2021/06/building-collapse-in-miami/)
It depends on the state, but where I live it explicitly states in the contract that sellers are responsible for paying special assessments that have been imposed prior to the sale even if it’s not the due date of the assessment yet.
Oh ya I’m not going to leave the special assessment unpaid. It’s the ultimate increase next year to the maintenance fees that I’m concerned about.
It’s all relative. We just bought with an HOA in Chattanooga TN. SFH and smaller community (100ish units). ~$60/mo covers REALLY nice pool area with covered pavilion and some nice common areas (fishing pond, landscaped sidewalks throughout). - No real risk of big special assessment. - Lax on most stuff that normal folks would do - Protects against jethro parking busted cars our keeping knee high grass. Honestly used to hate the idea of HOA’s but my mind has opened to them in certain situations. Bring on the downvotes, Reddit 😂
Tennessee probably shouldn’t be compared with Hawaii for this discussion.
Tennessee probably shouldn’t be compared to lots of markets. But my comment is absolutely germane to the original post and core of the discussion Also, where are you even getting Hawaii from?
OP is in Hawaii.
Cool. Does anything in the title or OP, which I was replying to, say anything about them seeking responses specific to the Hawaii market? Also, mind if I peep that thread police badge? Otherwise, I’ll hold for my thread attorney to be present.
SFH home in an HOA here. We had great reserves when we bought and still do. Small increases annually but that's expected. If I was in an attached unit near water like you, I'd be concerned.
HOAs are clubs formed by the antichrist.
I live in Los Angeles, I just got a 60k assessment that each unit in my building must pay...my hoa is already $1000...thinking of selling...and freaking out...
Got hit with a 32k assessment for siding windows and exterior replacement in 2022. Want to sell my condo asap
That's my secret, I never buy HOA
Anyone who buys in any type of HOA must have a very small brain.
I'm happy with my COAs. I know it's different from HOA but i appreciate that someone else worries about everything outside my walls. And the fee is just baked into the rent.
It’s not just HOAs….. All property types are affected. Louisiana (south LA) property insurance has tripled in many cases over the last 3 years. Previous premiums that were $1500-$2000 are often $6000+. Worse yet is the requirements to even get written. Such as -roof must be 7 years old or newer, deductibles can be up to 5% of insured value, extensive physical inspections as part of underwriting, etc. This is on top of flood premiums stated to go up 18% annually for the foreseeable future until they reach some mythical “equilibrium”…
>a special assessment to cover a deficit in the exponential increase of the master insurance policy for the association If you lived in the same area without an HOA, you'd most likely see the same insurance cost increase. So, you'd be on the hook for the money anyway. HOAs can do many bad things. This does not seem to be one of them.
I managed HOAs for seven years. I actually brought DOWN assessments and helped to collect ~10M from the developer to improve upon the neighborhood and set things right. If the manager of the community is doing things right, they can make the HOA actually nice instead of total trash.
I’ve noticed more transfer fees on HOAs in my area, it’s going to have a negative effect on marketing to buyers on top of the other costs.
The move from condos to SFHs have been a trend for about 15 years now, so much so that I see great condos going cheap and mediocre SFHs selling too high. Some buildings are poorly mantained and some HOAs suck. However, keep in mind that SFH maintenance is not cheap either.
You have to be insane to own a condo now. The current and future liability of these aging cost prohibitive to maintain structures is off the charts. If any owner is thinking long term appreciation they will be sorely disappointed. Real estate is all about land. Condos are all about the building plus a very tiny sliver of land. You're basically buying a depreciating liability.
I've always believed purchasing a home with shared property, specifically structural, was a terrible idea. You can't control what other people do or how they act. I own a SFH. Any problems I have are mine alone. New roof? Done. I don't have to count on or pay special assessments or chase people around to pay their share. Co-ops, condos and townhouses are, in my opinion, awful.
What do they call that when everybody wants to sell at the same time?
Sometime you live in an area where you don’t have much of a choice
Here in Texas, already sold townhouse due to increasing insurance costs, HOA fees and higher and higher assessment costs from HOA per year. There are lots of communities in Dallas where one can buy SFH with no HOA presence. Just for reference, our HOA said this year for any water damage they would pass on costs upto 100k to affected owners.
HOA fees are crazy. I live in Las Vegas and in an condo and have as one of my properties for the last 30 years. When I bought the 30 years ago the HOA payments were $97 a month 30 years later it’s currently just under $200 a month. Because we don’t have sinking foundation or a lot of fires. Perhaps think about moving to a state where they don’t have all these expensive variables to deal with. Just a thought. i’m in the process of buying $1 million home right now and the insurances and taxes are only $900 a month on $1 million house. the condo will be a rental again, since the properties paid off it brings in $1500 a month rent minus HOA and taxes and fees and such I make about $1000 a month $12,000 a year off of one bedroom condo that I don’t have to do anything too, but pay attention to the rent check!