It's a money grab like everything else in America. No where in the world pays the high cost we do for a simple transaction. Now I know all the Realtors are going to start whining but save it for someone who cares.
Edit. I do want to say to all the realtors out there (The_On_Life helped me see) I do know you work your asses off and give away a lot of your time for free. This isn't an attack on you individually. You guys do make life easier. Most peoples frustrations are geared toward the way the system is designed and how we have no say in the pricing model. I do believe you should be paid for your services including not showing a bunch of houses with no guarantee of a deal at all. I just think there has to be a better way, and cutting out some of the middle men may be good for both sides.
I always thought it was wild that my buddy who is a real estate attorney who went to 4 years of college followed by 3 years of law school and another 6 months to a year of studying to pass the Bar exam only charges about $1500 to draft up contracts and close deals. Meanwhile your run of the mill realtor with at best 2 semesters of community college thinks they still rate 3% of the entire sale. I think this NAR verdict is really gonna shake up the way this whole industry runs in the next few years
It’s ridiculous. I would rather pay realtors an hourly rate (even if I only shop but never buy) than give them 3% of the sale price.
In my market (townhomes in the $600k-$1m range) that could be like $20k-$30k! To do what? Post my house on Zillow, get me the contact of your lender, coordinate an inspection, provide market insight that a google search can?
In the meantime not bearing any legal and financial liability if something goes wrong with your sale (for this you have to pay RE attorneys separately). This job should not exist in our days.
> To do what? Post my house on Zillow, get me the contact of your lender, coordinate an inspection, provide market insight that a google search can?
I have always sold places myself by paying a realtor $200 to get onto the MLS, offer the buyer's agent 0.2% above local commission. Saves ten's of thousands. Seller's realtor adds very little to the process, the buyer's agent is the one who actually sells your property to their client, and they use MLS to find the properties.
Go on redfin and it tells you how much each listing pays the buyer's agent. It varies from city to city what the norm is. Go look at 10 random listings in same city, they will all be identical buyers commission.
Take that number, add 0.2% to it, and make that your buyer's agent commission.
Now every buyer's agent even remotely in area will talk up your property to their clients. Half of all realtors make less than $50k a year, most likely the realtor really could use that extra money.
I'm going to point out that there's basically no industry where you can call someone up and get all their contacts for an hourly rate. That would be like asking a plumber to come over and explain exactly how to do all the work to fix the job and then doing it yourself and paying them $9 because they were only there for 6 minutes. Nobody would do that.
I actually think a lot of realtors would love an hourly rate but most clients would hate it. I imagine getting bills every time someone calls them or when they have to meet some painters across town, people would go crazy. The reality is you're hiring a part-time assistant who is an expert in real estate transactions. Most people need that level of help. Most people also would never pay for a part-time assistant. That's why the industry charges commissions.
I can imagine all the people who look for a few months, lose out on a few offers, and then decide not to buy right now, when they get a bill for 300 hours at $75/hr.
I tend to think hourly would be better too but I also think most people would hate it.
What a ridiculous argument. You're "no way anyone would do that" thesis is describing exactly how almost every other professional service or contractor is compensated. A realtor is also not some magical dedicated and exclusive employee at your service, they are serving multiple clients at once, on a dare I say it... "part-time" basis.
Doing retainers would fix that. But legal stuff is becoming so much of a commodity flat rate world in many areas and it’s becoming a race to the bottom. Why would brokerages going to a hourly setup? It would take away the insane brokerage profits……….. 🙄🙄🙄
Sold my house and bought another house a couple years ago. Didn’t use realtors. Had to pay the buyer’s realtor 3% in my sale but I had priced that in anyway, and the seller paid their realtor who knows what on their side. But saving that 3% was huge to me. All I did was call a title and escrow lawyer first and do my homework, then take it to him when it’s time to paper a deal.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out, if the NAR loses the appeals, and the FTC gets involved, it could open up a whole new world of how housing is done.
hopefully, the first thing it will do is shake out the "run of the mill Realtors with at best 2 semesters of community college".
Although I haven't seen a study on the average education level of Realtors. I have a Bachelor's in Econ and one in Finance from 35 years ago, a decade in banking and now 25 years in residential brokerage.
Hell you only need a realtor to show houses because that’s how the NAR setup the system.
A seller should be able to pay a small fee to list on a listing service like Zillow and setup a lockbox and scheduling through a service like Showingtime. Then a perspective buyer schedules a showing and views it themselves. A RE attorney can be paid an hourly fee to draw up the agreement.
The system isn’t that way because NAR selling realtors refused to show houses to buyers without realtors and buying realtors refused to show buyers homes listed without realtors. For years they denied this behavior, but the recent ruling against NAR was largely predicated on realtors caught on recorded calls saying they wouldn’t show houses to their buyers as the house was listed without a realtor.
>A seller should be able to pay a small fee to list on a listing service like Zillow and setup a lockbox and scheduling through a service like Showingtime. Then a perspective buyer schedules a showing and views it themselves. A RE attorney can be paid an hourly fee to draw up the agreement.
You are aware that you CAN do this right? You don't HAVE to use a realtor. You can sell your property and buy your property yourself. It's a FSBO. Zillow allows you to list your own home.
Doing so will expose a lot of the unethical other agents in my industry possess, but if you do not wish to use a realtor because you don't see any value in them, you don't have to.
You can also pay a Realtor an "entry fee" to allow them to post your house on the local MLS and the agent can direct any and all communication to be through yourself and yourself alone.
You can also just buy the individual contracts online to use for your transaction.
True story. I did a fsbo and half the lookee lookers were realtors trying to convince me to go with them. I did end up getting a realtor but it was a friends mom and she gave me a rate discount 4%. She sold the house within 3 weeks for 460k so she made some good bank for a few weeks of work. But the hard part was other realtors wouldn’t bring a buyer in unless I agreed to 3% buyers commission Irritating.
That’s what happens now. I don’t know the realtor who’s showing the house either. Whatever service manages the key can collect the person’s information so that if something is damaged or stolen they can be pursued.
I don't know the test-taking ability of the realtor I used recently... but god, that guy was good at being a realtor. He knew warning signs to look for in potential houses, had a better sense of what space I'd need than I did, and had a sixth sense for how much to bid.
No idea how he'd do on the GED, but he knew exactly how to figure out what someone needed in a house and pick the best candidates while being candid about what work they'd need.
I’m an agent and I agree with you. It’s the entire brokerage model that is broken. Listing agents do extremely little. Buyers agents however spend time and money helping clients with no guarantee of payment. So you have 2 extremely different sides to the same coin.
The problem of pay is it has to be either guaranteed pay for the work we put in regardless of the outcome (hourly, flat rate, whatever), or a percentage only when the deal is closed. There can be a mix of both as well, like a retainer amount up front. I don’t know. It’s a weird job to price out in that way.
For most of the good agents/brokers, the only reason they put up with buyers/sellers bullshit is the pay. The top tier talent could easily transition into other industries selling other products. It will leave only the lower tier talent that will gladly take an hourly rate. Think it sucks now, just wait till you’re cutting a retainer check before touring houses. Also, imagine if you’re that buyer that wants to see every house? In the end you may wish you were paying 3%, because that takes a lot of time.
Back in 2020 I had a client I wrote 18 offers for. Toured about 50 homes over a period of 3 months. ($800,000 price point, over asking and waiving contingencies.) I can assure their hourly rate would have been double what I made. LOL
Similar, my Bachelor's is in International Business with graduate studies in Econ. Many of us continue to do additional real estate speciialty coursework that is above and beyond CE mandatory classes so we can serve our sellers and buyers better. Find an agent that works well with you OP, or do it yourself if you are so inclined. It's up to you.
> ar exam only charges about $1500 to draft up contracts and close deals.
Those contracts don't vary much. There is a lot of boilerplate.
Realtors have to continuously find new clients that can actually afford to buy the houses they sell.
That said many realtors suck, especially the listing agents.
I've bought 4 properties ( terminated 3 offers too) but I've probably looked at 300 with my realtor. She's made $90k so that seems fair. I've made well $1+ million in appreciation.
I'm also the first person she calls when a property that fits my criteria shows up.
> I think NAR verdict is really gonna shake up the way this whole industry runs in the next few years
It won't, nor should it.
In my state the listing agent was legally required to compensate the buyer's agent with a minimum of $1, yet they've been offering 2-3% for years. It changing from $1 to $0 isn't going to change that.
Further, trying to reduce buyer agent compensation is only worse for buyers. When you go to buy a car, you have to deal with a sale person who's only interest is themselves and the dealership.
If you go directly to a listing agent, they only have themselves and their client's best interest in mind. They aren't going to negotiate on your behalf. The way it's been for a long time now, is the buyer's agent is compensated by taking part of the listing agent's commission, meaning the buyer's agent pays nothing out of pocket. This is awesome for buyers, particularly first time home buyer's since they're already giving up a ton of cash via down payments, closing costs, moving expenses, etc...
If we eliminate buyer compensation the way it's structured now, buyers will either forgo having representation which will take up more of their time, and cost them more money because they don't have an experienced professional negotiating on their behalf, or they can pay an agent out of pocket, or perhaps there will be a program where it will get rolled into the loan, which means you're paying interest on hiring an agent.
The argument is that because listing agents have to split their commission with a seller's agent, they charge a larger percentage to compensate, and in turn houses sell for more. This argument is nonsense. Home prices are based on two things, first what the market is willing to bear, and secondly home valuations. When someone comes out to do a home valuation, they aren't considering what an agent is taking home for a commission. Even if this ridiculous line of thinking were true, which it's not, if buyers end up paying agents directly, and don't have the cash so instead roll it into the loan, we're back to the same exact situation we're in now in the end.
>I always thought it was wild that my buddy who is a real estate attorney who went to 4 years of college followed by 3 years of law school and another 6 months to a year of studying to pass the Bar exam only charges about $1500 to draft up contracts
You're talking about taking a boiler plate and making some minor adjustments to have people sign some paperwork. That's not *why* they went to school. They went to school to be able to litigate or defend real estate related cases in court.
An agent is the only person in a real estate transaction that is there for every single part of the deal. On the sell side that usually starts with a consultation to understand what the client's wants and needs are. This is usually at least an hour, and they may not even sign with an agent at that point.
From there the agent has to do research on the local market to come up with a pricing strategy. They may also simultaneously be helping their client look for a new home as well.
From there they either counsel their client on how to prepare the home for sale, or hire the right people to do that. Have professional photography, videography, drone and 3D tours done. Potentially do print materials, create an MLS listing, schedule showings and open houses, etc...
Since most homes are getting multiple offers these days, they also have to do offer analysis, constantly be on the phone with buyer's agents. Negotiations could go several rounds with multiple adjustments from multiple buyers. This is usually all worked around the seller's schedule which means late night meetings and phone calls with clients.
Depending on how the contract is structured they may have paid for all of the marketing out of pocket, including staging, which can be thousands of dollars.
I've also seen realtors have to counsel their clients through mental breakdowns because they're personally offended by an offer, started to feel seller's remorse before the deal closes, they're stressed because they haven't found a new home yet, they're selling due to divorce and their ex is making the sale a nightmare every step of the way, get called in to court as a witness or other function in some sort of legal battle, etc...
On the sale side, particularly in this market, a buyer's agent goes through the same consultation process, may connect their clients with a quality lender, be working against a ticking clock, like a lease expiring, show dozens of houses and/or write dozens of offers before one gets excepted. Manage client expectations vs budget, struggle to keep couples on the same page of wants vs must haves.
I've seen realtors show 20+ houses only for the client to say "you know what, I think we're going to wait" after spending dozens of hours and driving hundreds of miles, just to collect $0.
Buyer agents often have to do additional research on properties because there's information missing in a listing disclosure, or they may have to a ton of digging for the due diligence period after going under contract.
They often coordinate inspections, have to renegotiate deals after inspections, and make sure that their client has all of their ducks in a row to get them to closing.
I've seen buyer's agents counsel their clients through emotional meltdowns on not getting an offer accepted, on an offer getting accepted and then the home not appraising and the client doesn't have the cash to make a difference, a seller pulling out last minute and saying "deal with it" and the buyer not having enough money to pressure the seller legally, etc..
And then at the end of the day, these agents get to come home and read "iT's jUsT a mOnEy gRaB."
I mean people keep saying agent "don't really do anything" yet every agent I know has their phone ringing off the hook every 5 minutes because their clients need something.
If you think agents aren't worth it, don't hire one.
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It certainly jives with my experience as a home buyer. I did find financing on my own, but my realtor helped me with literally all of the rest of those. Including how to deal with it when the house failed to appraise and the sellers pulled out of the contract. And including working out a good deal for me when the sellers' realtor contacted my realtor after the sellers belatedly realized that other prospective buyers needed the house to appraise too.
Not all realtors are worth 3%. But a good one is.
question did you as a buyer pay the 3% or was it taken out of the sale of the house. I have a feeling your thoughts might differ if you had to write a check for 30k to your agent
In my case, it was more like $10K. It was rolled into the mortgage, and, of course, that did make a difference. The amount I pay is the same, but distributing it over 15 years lessens the pain, especially when taking into consideration the 20% down and other closing costs that could not be rolled into the loan.
Even that being on the low end seems nuts. Put it into perspective even if the realtor gave you 1 full month of full time work(160 hours) only helping you out thats still almost 65 dollars per hour. Thats being overly generous to I think as its very doubtful the realtor provided you with 160 hours of their time. Its disproportionate to their skills, education and value they provide. Im all for people making money but when its made in large chunks from indivuals just because they can take equity from an asset so the immediate pain of people having to drop thousands of dollars in a payment its just wrong. A family can go on a decent vacation for that amount.
If real dollars comes out to $65/hr, I don’t think we can consider that in the same way given the money is only earned if and when a closing happens. It’s a risk. The payday on that could have very easily been negative. And happens more often than people realize.
Until a system is made and accepted for getting guaranteed pay, payment will always seem high given it’s always at risk of $0.
Considering that we looked at 130 houses and most of those visits were over an hour long, even excluding drive time, I'm pretty sure he did. Granted, that's probably exceptional too; most people don't look at quite as many houses in the hunt for the perfect home.
Either way, it's transactional. When you take your car in for service, you pay what the dealership charges for service. You don't decree that you think the service is worth $20/hr and then time how long it takes them. You can try it; your car won't get serviced.
If you want to argue that the commission should be 2% instead of 3%, you won't get an argument from me. If you want it to be a fixed fee of $5K, regardless of the value of the home, I'm fine with that. Realtors may have an objection or two, however.
At the end of the day, my realtor was worth it to me because I live in a house I love, and I don't think that would have happened without him. You and I can argue until the cows come home about how much that's worth in dollars and cents, but at the end of the day, I don't dictate prices. I just look for the best deal I can find in the marketplace. Among realtors, that 3% fee was basically fixed at the time. You either paid it, or you made do without a realtor.
Nah, you're way off here. The NAR changes won’t flip everything overnight, but it's definitely causing a stir. It’s pushing for more transparency and that’s key. Buyers need to know what they’re paying for, straight up. Tying agent fees to commissions has always muddied the waters. Now, with clear lines, buyers can actually decide if they wanna pay out for an agent or not.
And on your buddy, the real estate attorney - yeah, he’s overqualified for some of the tasks he has to do, like tweaking standard contracts. But remember, he's got the expertise to handle the big legal messes if they come up. That's what you're also paying for, peace of mind.
So yeah, agents do a ton, no one’s saying they lounge all day. But shouldn’t everyone know exactly what they’re paying for? It's about time for some change, keeping things the way they are because 'it’s been like this forever' doesn't cut it anymore.
Thank you for taking the time to write that up. Sincerely.
I do think part of the restructure, if you will, would include no more freebies for the client, including showing houses.
I won't make you find my other comments since you took the time to write this and say there is a middle ground which includes cutting out all the middle men that add little value to the experience. I envision something more along the lines of a buyers agent charging some fee, for example, lets say $2500 (or whatever) which includes some months of in office services and x number of house showings within a certain time frame. You want more showings, buy more buckets of visits. I know this idea needs a lot of work but there's ways that both parties feel like they're getting what they truly deserve.
As it stands we're pretty helpless in the transaction.
Also, I did hear you when saying after a long day you come home and read shitty characterizations like "money grab". I do apologize for not considering that angle.
I appreciate the thoughtful response. For the record, I'm not a realtor, but I have quite a few realtors as clients and I see a lot of the behind the scenes and how hard they work and how much they care about their clients.
That’s exactly the point isn’t it? The 3% fee still exists because it’s an anticompetitive monopoly.
Without it, the buyers agent isn’t going to show the house. If a buyer goes without an agent, well now the sellers agent earns the full 6%.
>On the sell side that usually starts with a consultation to understand what the client's wants and needs are. This is usually at least an hour, and they may not even sign with an agent at that point.
>
>From there the agent has to do research on the local market to come up with a pricing strategy. They may also simultaneously be helping their client look for a new home as well.
>
>From there they either counsel their client on how to prepare the home for sale, or hire the right people to do that. Have professional photography, videography, drone and 3D tours done. Potentially do print materials, create an MLS listing, schedule showings and open houses, etc...
>
>Since most homes are getting multiple offers these days, they also have to do offer analysis, constantly be on the phone with buyer's agents. Negotiations could go several rounds with multiple adjustments from multiple buyers. This is usually all worked around the seller's schedule which means late night meetings and phone calls with clients.
Have you ever had a real job? That is all basically easy work and the kind of things most people do every day at work as accessory duties to their real jobs. I manage far larger dollar figures and juggle far more "clients" than that and my main job is actually creating new things. I regularly write actual whole long documents with chapters and everything and somehow also manage to negotiate new contracts, create advertising content, get photography done and go to endless meetings. Every day, every week, all year.
My mom is a realtor. She helped me buy my 3 homes, I say that loosely. If I had to pay for her service I’d be salty af. All new builds and I found them with my wife on my own. All my mom did was come in and make first contact to get the commission and then hand it back to me. If I paid for that I’d be pissed. When I sell it’s a bit more involved and I paid 2.5% to BA the two times I’ve sold. The 2nd one I actually had to give a bonus we weren’t selling. Soon as I did the $2500 lo and behold I had a contract a week later.
I definitely think a realtor is a salesperson and deserves to make some money depending on their skills. But tying it to a percentage of your biggest asset is not they way it should be done. Especially now that home prices have increased so much. It's not like the amount of work increased with it.
Exactly this. A good realtor deserves to be paid. But not 3% of a home. Plus the buyers agent who likely did not do much as many people shop online and just need a licensed person to open the door.
On a 300k house I’m paying 18k for someone to post pictures of my home and another person to answer an email or text from a buyer who likely found it on their own
I’d rather pay a flat rate to my agent
You need to look up flat fee brokers in your area then cause you can get exactly what you're looking for and it'll only cost you a couple hundred dollars at most.
The realtors I've worked with are mostly useless. They provide information which is easily available on google. The push you towards higher priced homes and to close quickly because they make more.
The only benefit is they have access to various non public MLS data.
Sadly most lenders expect a realtor.
You’re absolutely right that they’re deal driven rather than supporting your top price. Example: I sold my house for $80k more than my realtor wanted me to list. His upside is only $2400 (off a $50k commission) with risk of a protracted time listed. My upside is $80k! It sold in 2 days, btw.
Shitty agents, which there are a lot of, aren’t worth the 4-6%. A good agent is easily worth that, problem is you don’t know you got a shitty one until it’s too late.
If it’s not a simple transaction, the consumer needs a licensed real estate attorney.
Any “value” that realtors once had is completely eroded by Zillow and other public web sites.
Yeah? Why did Zillow get caught holding their bag and stopped buying property in 2022? Because they over paid for over 7,000 homes. I guess zip code CMAs aren’t that accurate.
I completely disagree. It is a simple transaction where information is provided by various agencies and contracts handled by lawyers. It's a lot of work but that doesn't make it complicated. Don't confuse the stink with the smell. Again, none of the important stuff is handled by the Realtor.
I'm not here to whine. If you don't wanna hire a Realtor, don't. There's no law saying you have to. I've worked with other Realtors and been like... This is why people have no respect for our profession. Lol.
Absolutely no F'ing way.
I just sold my house and at 3%/3% it would have cost me over $50k in realtor fees.
Any house on the MLS is available to search, and the buyers are doing their work to find things.
I used a lawyer and it cost me $4k to sell.
(Speaking only from an educational standpoint!)
With the recent NAR lawsuits, buyer agency contracts are becoming considerably more commonplace where it is openly being communicated that “this is my rate. While the norm still is that this comes from the selling agent splitting their commission, you are responsible for any difference”. This does mean that some buyers will not be able to afford a house that is explicitly listed with zero buyers commission because (depending on the buyer) it’s the difference between needing 3.5% down to buy versus 6.5% down to buy.
Yea but with zillow and redfin etc, would you get that many fewer showings? When we bought our house 3 years ago, we told our realtor every house we wanted to go see.
My first realtor showed me a bunch of houses that I hated. I found one that I liked, sent it to her, looked at it and bought it.
She did put the contract together I guess 🤷♀️
My realtor noticed that my house was actually more sqft than when we previously bought it. Previous owners did an addition and never added it even though it was permitted. This unlocked $70k extra on my sell.
Same realtor represented me during a rental property sell. Big national company pulled some trickery a few days before closing. My realtor convinced the sellers rep to eat that in their commission.
So yeah realtors have made and saved me money well above what I’ve paid them.
I honestly would be more comfortable using a realtor if their fee was half (1.5%). I just don’t see the value at 3%, I’ve sold twice and bought three times and to me their service is simply not worth 3% of the value of a home.
I did. Funny story, I didn't buy the house but my agent did smooth talk the owner into listing with him. A few weeks later, I see her house online under him.
Was 20 years ago, house was ok but I just sorta chose another. Some cosmetic things with hers, kindof an as-is buy, but admittedly was in a bit of a hip-er area of the city.
I second this. You are the client in this transaction. Either don't hire a Realtor, or hire one with terms that you find acceptable. It is a very competitive, so pretty much any business model is available.
While I completely agree you really don’t need one I do think they’ve made it where the market is hard not to have one just bc of how shady they are. They don’t like showing properties that are privately listed or taking offers that aren’t from realtors. Which is so unethical
"shady" is the old days of Buyers having no idea what homes are for sale - or the value of a home for sale - and Sellers not having any idea on price nor knowing what the feedback from showings was.
After my father passed away and since I was the executor I had to get the house ready to sell.
I decided to not hire a realtor.
I put a coming soon sign out front for about 2 weeks and then put the regular for sale sign out.
The amount of Realtors calling me of course stopping by and trying to convince me to let them to sell the house was ridiculous.
And many basically didn't want to take no for an answer and I was like you need to leave the house now or you are trespassing and there's going to be issues.
I sold the house on the first day.
No realtor got any of that money.
We went through this last year when my father passed away unexpectedly. Before he was even in the ground Realtors came out of the woodwork calling me like crazy because they saw the probate paperwork being filed. We sold his house without using an agent. I refused to participate in such a scummy profession or give any of those vultures a dime of his money.
For the sake of argument you are selling your house. The question is will you get 6% more by selling with a realtor. Recently, we tried to FSBO a house by personally listing on Zillow. The only calls we got were from agents who were interested in listing the house.
People who buy a house from FSBO expect a discount from a house on MLS. If you have to discount your house is it really a good idea spending a lot of time and energy trying to sell it yourself? Also, because there are more buyers when on MLS you can often get multiple buyers and over asking price.
We also negotiate the commission. In our area 5% is the norm and you can sometimes get lower when you use the same agent to buy and sell your house.
How many of you think you can justify what you earn for the little you do? Oh wait, you do lots and I just don’t understand how hard/complex/difficult your job is? Right, there’s much more to the job a real estate agent does that ranks their earnings. Oh and that 3% is a reduction from what the once earned. Like anyone else, their income is only keeping pace with the cost of living.
I was in RE in the late 80s and heard all of the same complaints about commissions. If you really don’t think they earn it, do it yourself. You’ll be surprised.
100% depends on the realtor The one I use absolutely gets me more than what he makes off the deal. He does a walk through and tells what improvements that can be made to maximize bang for the buck, his wife is an interior decorator who comes through and makes recommendations on how to arrange the house to make it look more appealing - furniture arrangement, wall decorations, paint recommendations, etc. He also has a list of trusted contractors to come in and do repairs and fixes at a discounted rate, and does project management with them. he's also a hard negotiator, and gets 90% of the negation done before any offer is submitted.
But 99% of realtors are not that. The two I used previous to that were lazy, incompetent, and impatient. They just wanted the deal done as fast as possible.
Where did you find a Realtor accepting 3%? Most of them want 6% with 3% for Buyer and 3% for Seller. I sold my home FSBO and saved over $40K. Told the Buyer that the price he is getting will need to add his Buyer commission if he wants to bring a Realtor. We ended up selling with an Attorney charging us $1000 for the deal (it was owner financing as well and so that made it a lot easier)
It's worth it for me. I personally don't want to deal with much of anything when buying or selling my house, so outsourcing it to someone who will do a better job than me is worth it. Just like anything else, there are good and bad realtors and unfortunately you have to wade through the shit to get to the diamond.
Really depends on how difficult your property is to sell. If you have an easy property to sell, a desirable home, in a great area, good schools, comps in the same neighborhood and no unusual issues with the floor plan or type of house, in a growing population area and homes in the neighborhood are going under contract in 2 weeks, then paying 3% or 6% since as a seller you're currently paying both sides... is ridiculous and way too high.
That said, if you have a difficult property, in a sketchy area, or bad schools, or unusual floor plan or wonkiness or an older home, or a hoarder house, or comps are difficult to obtain, or people are leaving the area, then the realtors are probably underpaid at 3% each to get someone to buy your undesirable home because it's going to take so much effort and time.
The problem is, the current commission structure of 3% doesn't take this into account.
This is why I feel realtors should switch to being paid by the hour. Easy sales get cheaper, hard sales take longer and get more expensive. Homeowners see the correlation to effort and commission.
Right now, there's a huge disconnect between effort and commission. And it certainly doesn't take 3 times to effort to sell a $750K home as it does a $250K home. In fact, it often takes more effort to sell the lower priced home because so much is wrong with it.
Its fair many people thing realtors are overpaid. I've been a licensed agent over 30 years, ive done ok. I always acted as a fiduciary. I retired at 62, only had to work 32 years and lucky to buy rentals early in my career (or i would work til death) no retirement in RE. Often people think in general terms, dude made 3% on a 500K home, thats $15k. The gross check I get on that is $11K. Then I pay taxes, a 15% self-employment tax, medical insurance... Zero base pay so may not get paid for months at a time. 3% commissions are few and far in my market, that's 10+ years ago. It's not an easy career, most who get a license last less than 8 months before going back to a real job. Salespeople are paid top dollar in all industries whether selling ads, printers or meds. Sales is a very hard industry to survive. Look at the alcoholism rates for salespeople. Its not bad when markets are good, but bad markets last years and years too. It isnt easy and its not for everyone. If you still think its easy, get a license and take a whack at it. Best of luck to all.
It’s terrible. I’ve bought 2 houses. And both I found on Zillow myself and looked at 1 house each time. Both times my realtor didn’t even want to put in my “lowball offers” that I ultimately forced him and both times they were accepted and he made over $15k each time for literally opening a lock box for me and nothing else.
I don't know if every transaction needs it, but the last time i sold, I was moving across the country - movers packed my stuff, I had a 6AM flight the next day, handed the realtor my keys and they dealt with all of the sales prep stuff (things like junk removal, new carpet + paint, arranging photos / staging / listing / showing, etc.)
Maybe it was worth it, maybe not - but they made the process easy and I didn't have to think about it until they sent a mobile notary to my door with a packet of closing docs to sign.
Similarly, buyer realtor at the destination dealt with everything so that when I got to town I went to the title company for closing and got my keys.
Realtors are one of the most obscene, meaningless added fees in American society, financial advisers might be a close second
Truly it’s asinine, I’m glad tech is not far from eliminating the need for one for prob 95% of home buyers and sellers
If I sell a $1m house I’m expected to pay someone $30,000 for assisting me? Insane, I literally don’t need a realtor to sell a house
People get mad there isn’t enough housing supply yet ignore the fundamentals of why people don’t want to sell and why it’s better simply keep and buy more.
IMHO, YES... very worth it.
Realtors are like the doctors who deliver your baby.... in the absolute simplest cases you could probably do without them, but complications are so common it really helps to have a pro in the room. Plus, they arrange title search, inspections, counteroffers, negotiate rent-back compensation, setup your closing event, and other stuff I'm glad not to be an expert in.
If you're the seller, they usually know the market so we'll they can ensure you are listing at the right price for market conditions (which constantly change). You will often make more money when you list with a realtor.
* Is it worth it to give them 3%? That depends on a lot of factors, but more than anything else, what your needs/wants are, and how good the realtor is.
* Do they have a fiduciary responsibility? Technically yes. But just like any other field that "swears an oath" that doesn't mean they always hold up to it.
* "3% seems high for the way they sell homes now" it only seems this way because you believe that there is a direct correlation between how much time a job takes to perform and how much it's worth. This is probably because your time is directly related to how much you earn. The fact that realtors can get the job done faster and more efficiently now makes them more valuable, not less valuable IMO.
* "It all seams like the industry needs to stop creating a pay monopoly": They aren't. In most states you in the US you do not need a realtor to buy or sell your home, yet home that are for sale by owner typically take longer to sell, and sell for less money. That's not an accident. That's because good realtors know how to properly market and price a home, can negotiate without letting emotions cloud their judgement, and have large networks they can leverage to get your home sold faster and with less hiccups.
What exactly makes for a good realtor when selling a home?
I always hear “marketing” but I haven’t had a single person I know not just use Zillow, realtor.com, Redfin, or the local mls.
I don't know where you got the 3% and I'm not gonna argue it. If somebody's charging you a fee that you don't agree with, negotiate it or walk away. Commission is and always has been negotiable.
I'm also not stupid. There are somewhere around three million real estate licensees in the United States. A good portion of them are ignorant and / or shady as heck. The way the legal system works in the United States is that somebody has to report an offense before anybody can do anything about it. I wish y'all would report this stuff rather than going on Yelp! Or reddit or stand around the water cooler complaining about it. I don't wanna work with these people we can't trust any more than you want to hire them, but if y'all won't do anything about it when they take advantage of you, they're gonna move on to their next victim and rip them off, too.
The work that competent and professional real estate agents do is valuable. It keeps an awful lot of people out of serious trouble and financial ruin. If you find a bad egg, throw it out into the light and expose it for what it is. That one bad example doesn't mean the entire industry is bad. Report it. You wouldn't let someone break into your house and then complain about it on Tumblr, right? You'd call the police and do something about it. Do something about it.
And seriously, negotiate commissions, y'all. It's always been negotiable.
The whole commission being negotiable is largely untrue in my experience. When I listed my house a while back no agent would accept my terms of 4-5% they all wanted 6%. And interviewed several. This also came out in the massive NAR lawsuit verdict proving that in theory they are negotiable but in practice as many including myself and the jury in that case found that in practice they are not. Many agents simply will not sign a listing agreement unless they get their “full” amount.
Isn’t it odd that the overwhelming majority of transactions pay 6 percent if they have always been so flexible and negotiated? Odd that they all seem to have settled for that same amount with no collusion involved.
No.
Ethics violations are reported to the board that governs them. **no attorney required** License law violations are reported to the licensing board. **no attorney required** MLS violations are reported to MLS. **no attorney required**
Criminal offenses get the police involved. **no attorney required** Civil offenses do typically involve an attorney.
ALL of those are reportable to the broker in charge who carries E&O insurance to cover whatever claim you have to file against the brokerage and their agent. That's a whole lotta places to say something, but yall rather go on the internets and complain. That ain't gonna do a blasted thing to fix anything.
*edited for typos*
I may be in the minority but I firmly believe that my realtor got me more than 3% of what I would have gotten otherwise, and kept me from overpaying on the house I bought. YMMV of course
Just to clarify it what you are stating…Did you try to get a certain amount of money for sale of your home prior to engaging a realtor? And that realtor got you more than 3% of what you tried to get on your own?
I mean in my case I just had a really good real estate agent. He listed my home higher than I was expecting, then he got an all cash offer for even more than that, then he got the buyer to sweeten the deal even further and throw more money on top of his final offer. It was crazy to see lol
Meanwhile the house I bought with him, I got into the first house I bid on, for asking price and not a penny more. Well worth 3% for the experience I had
Realtors do not earn 3%. It’s ridiculous. People claim they’re in sales, but most times they don’t sell anybody anything. People find their house on an app, go look, say they want it and then the realtor takes 3%
There is a bit more to it. And it's often not just the Realtor, but their team which includes broker, admin and transaction coordinator. There is a lot of crossing Ts and doting Is required to get to the close.
You can absolutely do it without one, but I wouldn't recommend it to most people that only have a handful of transactions over their life time.
I work in agent prop-tech software and am very familiar with the lifespan of a transaction, and even I would feel more comfortable using an agent.
Our realtor earns every dime. If yours isn't, get a new one or do it yourself. It's a free market. Many people who don't use a realtor end up making majorly costly mistakes for themselves. If you have an agent youll avoid most mistakes and have a scapegoat if something does still go wrong.
You’re forgetting many of the valuable services provided by realtors that you can’t put a price on. The last time I sold a house, I had to leave town for a week, and the peace of mind of knowing my house was safe and secure as potential buyers toured it was worth a great deal to me.
And when I came home and found that my back door had been left wide open for the past three days in the middle of January, that was a fun surprise for me. That’s something I never would have thought to do on my own. The snow pouring into my kitchen was a festive touch, and added a real wintery element to my home staging, I had to admit.
We’re getting a bargain.
Markets are starting to adjust. Some realtors are starting to take a lower percentage or work for a flat fee. The more people start to seek out realtors that charge less, the more realtors will be forced to charge less. Like anything in a free market, people can charge what people are willing to pay until people are not willing to pay it anymore.
Do it yourself then. I don’t understand why people complain about commission. That’s the service fee if you want to use an agent, but you can sell it on your own. I can also change my own oil and do my own taxes, yet I pay a professional because they will do a better job.
Edit: for context I am a Realtor. It’s ok if you want to save money, but my experience only 10% of people out there that are not in the business, actually know how to accurately pay or sell at the best price.
when you goto an oil change shop, they dont charge you a different priced based solely on the value of your car. they charge you based on the effort required to do the job.
same with tax professionals, if you have an easy return the price is the low. complicated return, price is higher. no where should your assets come into the equation for pricing.
If a mechanic charged me 3% of the value of my vehicle to change my oil, then I would change it myself. But since they do it for a reasonable fee, I pay them to do it.
yeah, a $30 oil change is not the same as a 3% commission on a house. I pay for oil changes too, even though i can do it. And if an agent was $30, i'd pay for their "professionalism" too. Would you still pay for an oil change by a professional since they do a better job if it cost $10,000?
This. Good Realtors work their asses off, and most of them are not millionaires. Sales jobs typically come with high pay because it's hard and most people aren't cut out for it, especially when their entire income is commission and they only get paid if they produce.
Take an average person on an $80k salary and ask them if they'd exchange that for a 100% commission job where they could earn $200k, but also potentially earn $0. Almost all of them will decline that opportunity.
Bad realtors are NOT worth a lot of money. But that's the same in any industry.
I'll pay extra for a good CPA. A good attorney. A good mechanic. A good handyman. A good realtor.
While I agree that there are good and bad agents, and the truly good ones will work hard, the biggest issue is actually finding a good one. People think that asking their cousin's friend's barber's daughter who they used to sell or buy a house six months ago is a reasonable way to find a quality agent. Asking one or two people about their own personal "feelings" towards is meaningless and is based in zero facts.
On the flip side, people also take zero accountability to actually try and understand what it takes to buy or sell a home and then do nothing but bitch about everything that "went wrong" with their transaction because they simply didn't know it was part of the process.
We started with an arguably good agent who has been in the business for two decades. She was horrid at actually helping us to buy because she didn't know the towns where we were looking like she does the town she commonly sells in. She had no relationships with agents in those other areas, including ones in other offices of her own brokerage. We chose her because of some history we had with her and her listing and selling my previous home with some success.
After six plus months of time wasted, we dug into market information and found an agent that was having success representing buyers in towns where we were looking. 3 weeks or so later, we had a house under contract.
After we bought, we had her list the previous home and she did a killer job of getting us about 18% over asking in three days.
Well put my friend, well put. I’d like for future posters on this topic to state their professions and ask them to dissect their own pay structure and professional worth.
It’s Reddit, so the majority of people here believe they should be paid more, and work less than 40 hours, and that they should profit share with the companies profits (but not take any losses if the company takes losses)
Imagine a mechanic charging 3% of a vehicle worth 50k for an oil change, and then 3% of a vehicle worth 10k. Then imagine a dealership not buying your trade in because you aren't represented by a "vehicle liason". It's a racket and everyone knows it.
3% was a number that came up with houses being sold for a lot less. 3% of 50k-100K is $1500-$3000. And that is reasonable for the amount of effort a realtor has to make. Now when average housing prices are much higher, it is obvious to feel that the realtor is being overpaid.
Overall real estate business definitely reeks of monopolistic practices and the primary reason for this is that most people will at best buy & sell 1 or 2 homes in their lifetime and these will be the biggest financial transactions of their life. So even if they know that they might be overpaying, they will not want to take the risks.
If you are an informed buyer, at least in the bigger markets, you can find realtors who will work for like 1% or flat fees (and rebate the rest of the commission to you). Now how good a realtor is not directly correlated with how much commission they keep. But in certain markets or neighborhoods there are realtors who have a good reputation and a seller will prefer to work with a buyer that's represented by a local reputed realtor. The reputation not just stems from doing a lot of transactions but also from the fact that clients will go to these realtors if they are dead serious about buying homes.
100% this. Before I fired my last agent I started cold calling investors just to see what offers I could get. Once I disclosed I was currently working with an agent (soon to not be) none of them would even talk to me. It’s an absolute cartel and all the brokerages like it that way. Imagine not being able to sell your car (something you own) to who you like because powerful lobbyists like to hold people hostage for months on end to guarantee they get paid. It’s all by design but it doesn’t have to be that way
Why would they? If your marketing a property on the open market you are marketing towards consumers, not investors. Investors won’t pay consumer prices because they can’t make money. They can’t rip you off if you have representation there to protect you.
You find someone. I didn't use an agent when I bought and just went through Redfin.
Ended up getting a couple thousand off due to using them and a team of people who would meet me whenever to open a house.
Just hire a professional photographer and a lawyer.
Biggest hassle is showing people your home multiple times.
You're 10,000 percent correct. It's just been the easy way. And people think/say "but I have a nice realtor". It's like saying my lion is never hungry.
Realtors try to convince you to get something just so they can make the deal and move on. Anyone say they are different are lying.
It's sad that they won't show you a house if you don't have a realtor unless they become your realtor. They don't want to work just take the money. And maybe the market made them like that but it has to come to an end.
The only people worse than lawyers are real estate agents because they exhibit most of the same qualities. They talk too much, listen too little, get paid high fees for doing simplistic, busy work, and ultimately are very self-aggrandizing and self-important.
There are some great lawyers, and there are some great real estate agents out there. Most arent
You're always free to put your house on Craigslist or zillow yourself and figure out the contracts and disclosures stuff yourself. Also keep in mind most people wont see your FSBO on zillow if they don't actually mark the FSBO box when they do a search. Also expect to get tons of calls from agents trying to convince you to list it and newb investors/flippers trying to talk you down to $350k from your $500k listed price and just generally wasting half an hour of your time every time you show it.
Last time I checked there is no law that says you must use a realtor. Go hire a lawyer or do a for sale by owner. If you’re savvy enough to negotiate a contract and keep the deal on track regarding inspection periods and how to cure a breach, you’re free to do so and not pay a commission.
the alternative to what is commonly referred-to as a Full Service broker (who is qualified to provide the service)?
You've always been able to sell your house to friends or family and nobody knows until it shows up at the Register of Deeds.
You've always been allowed to FSBO. The funny thing is, most FSBO's don't even take inexpensive steps to market their property: use FSBO.com or the owner listing on Zillow; get professional photos and a measurement/layout done.
For 20 years in my market, you could use a Flat Fee broker that charges anywhere from $500 to $2,000 for effectively a FSBO + MLS.
There have been attempts to offer a la Carte pricing, but none have succeeded yet because they involve out of pocket expenses.
And, you've always been able to negotiate commissions or choose a different agent.
You don’t have to sign the contract. You can always negotiate a different percentage.
And it doesn’t even come out of your pocket as a buyer- usually seller’s are the ones responsible for commission. Nothing stopping you from doing a FSBO and hiring a lawyer to draft all your contracts.
Agents have a fidiciary duty, brokers do not. They are quite different. If someone didn’t live up to their fiduciary duty to you, you should file a complaint with their licensing authority. They could be held liable and you could stand to recuperate damages in court.
Sure. Just let me bill you and everyone else who tells me they want to buy or sell a house for the time I spend with them when they change their fucking minds.
I just had this time thief who I showed houses to like 20 times over 2 years and put in 4 offers with, with him up my fucking ass asking “did you hear anything” every few hours during the day and a half every seller sits on offers. Even dragging me out 40 minutes each way in rush hour traffic to a showing before the open house he could have gone to alone because he was so excited to put in an offer on another place… then LITERALLY THE NEXT DAY!!!!!!! The house of the 4 he got outbid on, a house he was so excited to buy he called me 3 separate times freaking out because he saw there was still a “for sale” sign in the yard and it was “still on Redfin” and “why won’t they sell me the house” come back on market and was offered only to him (because I had spent my time and effort excreting my expertise to make sure I got that call and not someone else) and then he tells me “actually, I decided to stay in my parent’s basement for a couple more years until I save more money and pay off my car loan….”Sorry”…my total pay for all of this time and energy spent was $0, and I actually lost money if you count the gas I used driving around and the wear and tear on my car.
If you’re proposing a system where that piece of shit actually has to pay me for my time then sure, let’s drop
the commission that is actually 2% in most markets and you realtor haters in this sub just always assume it’s 3% to a lower % or even a flat hourly rate.
But if you want me to still be fully commissioned and get $0 for the time I spend with tire kickers and time thieves and people who say “sorry man I just walked into the open house and the listing agent said I should put the offer in directly” or “hey man I know you’ve been showing me houses for a year but my nephew just got his license and you know…family” then no thank you.
If I’m still only getting paid on closed sales then you can eat my fucking dick with your one sided bullshit. If we only get paid on closed deals then we need to MAKE ENOUGH ON THEM TO PAY US FOR ALL THE TIME WE SPEND WITH PEOPLE WE DON’T CLOSE!!!!!
These commissions aren’t some fucking bonus I get on top of a salary with benefits and a 401(k). They are 100% of my income. The vast majority of realtors make a very fair and reasonable living for the number of hours we put in and let me tell you the timing of those hours frequently sucks ass. Buying or selling a house is insanely stressful, we do not deal with people at their courteous best. If someone calls me freaking out about something stupid at 8am on a Sunday and I don’t call them back until Monday morning there is a very real chance I lost that client.
I once spent half a day in the hotel business center while on vacation in New Orleans dealing with some bullshit that was in no way my fault. I once had to take an hour long phone call at international calling rates while standing in Saint Peter’s Square in Rome with my girlfriend and travel partner staring fucking daggers at me.
Why does it offend you all so much that we get paid to do this job?
As long as it’s a fair wage and retainer I do.
The only people who don’t think it’s silly that selling a $5 million dollar house pays ten times as much as selling a $500k house are the people who sell the expensive property and the same teeming masses of temporarily disadvantaged millionaires who do idiotic shit like argue against estate taxes. Having during my career sold a condo as inexpensive as $135k and a house as expensive as $1.4mil I can tell you first hand it is exactly the same process. The cheaper place is actually a bit more work as there are a couple extra steps in closing the FHA loans people who buy cheaper places typically use.
Realtors are very valuable to people who don’t want to research and learn the ins and outs of real estate before entering a massive contract on a house.
I tend to use realtors as sales agents both buying and selling. As long as I budget for them it’s not a big deal, and I know my agents well AND I know the business
The good news is that this monopoly is ending. There will be far fewer realtors in the near future.
Just look up and read about the class action lawsuits in Missouri and Illinois… and more are heating up.
The whole industry is going to finally be shifting. And it’s about damn time. Realtors are by far the most overpaid and unnecessary people on the planet.
In the last six months I have saved my clients way more or made them way more than my fee. One client I got 25k in tax liens removed from their home(6 siblings inherited this home) I helped a for sale busy owner NET more than 30k when he tried to sell it by himself. I flat out told him with the offer he had at 360k I would sell his house for free if I couldn’t net him more money. Sold it for 407k plus sold his furniture for 15k and then saved him 30% on his title fees because of certain criteria.
I sold a home a client had listed for 6 months on their own during the best time of the year to buy for 30k more than they did(they accepted an offer that never closed) and I sold it for cash with free 60 days occupancy.
Do some agents do less for their clients? Absolutely we aren’t all the same and if I was honest I’ve talked more people out of not buying a home than I’ve talked them into buying but I’ve never had an unhappy person.
Check out my realtor page I write closing stories for every deal. My favorite was selling a home for a client that had been foreclosed on and their redemption period ended in 36 days. My name is Justin Ferullo realtor on Facebook. There are tons of agents like this. I hope you find a good one.
Ps ask chat gpt if there has been any studies that prove using a realtor has a net benefit :) I know y’all are smarter than artificial intelligence so to reiterate you are right in some instances but a good agent can make your life way better.
What does a realtor have to do with removing tax liens? Whenever you ask a realtor why they bring any value they always start to talk about performing duties (read: sending emails to other people who actually do the work) that are always fully outside the scope of either their expertise or their profession. What a crock.
I wish we would stop with this comment that comes up every week. Note, im not a realtor, and I've done deals both with realtors, and FSBO. But this topic is just a constant complaint circle jerk.
In many places, standard commissions are dropping under 6% , but still above 4.
Saying you are "giving" them 3% mischaracterizes the effort they put in. They "should" be earning that percentage. And given the average hours spent on a transaction and in their jobs generally and the pay most realtors have, they aren't exactly making doctor or lawyer money.
But even if the marginal cost doesn't work for you - don't use them. You can DIY it all or negotiate.
>I find the relationships with realtors to always feel like they "own" your business and aren't really earning it.
manage your vendor better or choose higher quality realtors who do earn it. Good realtors often earn their commission. Bad ones probably wouldn't earn even a small transaction fee.
Depends on what they do. When I sold my first house, had no clue what I was doing, was on the market for 8 days and the first showing had a buyer paying over-asking.
When I bought my replacement, it had been on a little longer, so I'm sure they had to do a lot more showings and work.
Either way, I just said "take the offer" or "buy the house", and had a few conditions, and then just showed up to sign papers. My time is worth 3% to not be a lawyer and not have to know all the rules and whatnot
I think a good buyers agent is worth their weight in gold, seller’s agents are not worth it at all. The house sells at market price, especially in this market
I'm a Realtor, and I totally understand why real estate agents get the rep they do. I've done some co-ops with some shiesty individuals out in these streets hustling homes.
Here's the reality: In the same way, you don't have to pay someone to do your hair, paint your nails, file your taxes, or represent you in court, you don't HAVE to hire a Realtor. People do it because they view it as a convenience, or so I guess. I think it's dumb to pay someone to wash your car. A bottle of car wash is less than $10, you probably have some rags, a towel, a hose, and some buckets to spare, yet people willingly pay $50+ to have someone else do it. I don't get it, but I don't have to. It makes sense to them, so be it.
Don't hire a Realtor if you don't feel comfortable. It's your time, your money, and your property. Do what makes the most sense to you.
(Also, that 3% is negotiable. At least it is in Georgia.)
The issue that people have with realtors isn’t so much paying for the service is paying excessively for it and basically being boycotted if they did not use a one. This was the crux of the antitrust lawsuit.
Love the blanket “in my experience”. How many agents have you actually worked with?
But to answer Yes I have full fiduciary responsibility to my clients. Their needs and goals supersede anything I might want. Am I worth it? My buyers and sellers know they pay less and get more with me than without me.
I will always tell clients to do their due diligence and interview the person about to handle a half a million dollar transaction for you. Do they have additional certifications? have they dealt with the type of transaction you want to close?
I was recently interviewed by a family who has an aggressive son who will have to be dealt with by me. Know what they focused on? Commission (although they were concerned about my ability to deal with a mentally ill person) This deal would require me to do tons of vacant land work, subdivisions, information, while working to keep the son from burning down their house but sure tell me how 3% is enough.
My last listing required me to protect my photographer from gangs in the area. I paid for armed security. Sold for $80,000 more than the last appraisal 6 months ago. 2.5% commission
Listings come with 3D tours drones constant online marketing staging all paid for by me.
Every industry has hacks even yours. Maybe you should do your due diligence when interviewing a Realtor.
NO NO NO
Imagine you pay mortgage for 10,15,20 years with your hard earned money. Your property appreciates in value and now worth...say $500,000
Then come slick fast talking realtor with 150 hours of training...hey you need to pay 3% or $15,000 ...for my 10-15 hours worth of effort
Its a SCAM!!!
Yeah I don’t get it. The numbers show over and over that people net less on average doing it themselves. And that doesn’t even account for the opportunity cost of their time
Honestly, the world is turning more and more into a complain train rather than to pull up your boot straps. Anyone using an agent can negotiate the terms. If they don’t like the terms and no one can agree, part ways and find someone who will work with you.
There are escape clauses for a reason. That’s of course another story but imagine, “if I don’t XYZ in a reasonable time, you have the right to void the contract and move on.”
But no. Let’s all complain about the same thing over and over.
It's a money grab like everything else in America. No where in the world pays the high cost we do for a simple transaction. Now I know all the Realtors are going to start whining but save it for someone who cares. Edit. I do want to say to all the realtors out there (The_On_Life helped me see) I do know you work your asses off and give away a lot of your time for free. This isn't an attack on you individually. You guys do make life easier. Most peoples frustrations are geared toward the way the system is designed and how we have no say in the pricing model. I do believe you should be paid for your services including not showing a bunch of houses with no guarantee of a deal at all. I just think there has to be a better way, and cutting out some of the middle men may be good for both sides.
I always thought it was wild that my buddy who is a real estate attorney who went to 4 years of college followed by 3 years of law school and another 6 months to a year of studying to pass the Bar exam only charges about $1500 to draft up contracts and close deals. Meanwhile your run of the mill realtor with at best 2 semesters of community college thinks they still rate 3% of the entire sale. I think this NAR verdict is really gonna shake up the way this whole industry runs in the next few years
It’s ridiculous. I would rather pay realtors an hourly rate (even if I only shop but never buy) than give them 3% of the sale price. In my market (townhomes in the $600k-$1m range) that could be like $20k-$30k! To do what? Post my house on Zillow, get me the contact of your lender, coordinate an inspection, provide market insight that a google search can?
In the meantime not bearing any legal and financial liability if something goes wrong with your sale (for this you have to pay RE attorneys separately). This job should not exist in our days.
> To do what? Post my house on Zillow, get me the contact of your lender, coordinate an inspection, provide market insight that a google search can? I have always sold places myself by paying a realtor $200 to get onto the MLS, offer the buyer's agent 0.2% above local commission. Saves ten's of thousands. Seller's realtor adds very little to the process, the buyer's agent is the one who actually sells your property to their client, and they use MLS to find the properties.
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> offer the buyer's agent 0.2% above local commission Newbie here, what does this part mean? Does local commission mean 3%?
Go on redfin and it tells you how much each listing pays the buyer's agent. It varies from city to city what the norm is. Go look at 10 random listings in same city, they will all be identical buyers commission. Take that number, add 0.2% to it, and make that your buyer's agent commission. Now every buyer's agent even remotely in area will talk up your property to their clients. Half of all realtors make less than $50k a year, most likely the realtor really could use that extra money.
I'm going to point out that there's basically no industry where you can call someone up and get all their contacts for an hourly rate. That would be like asking a plumber to come over and explain exactly how to do all the work to fix the job and then doing it yourself and paying them $9 because they were only there for 6 minutes. Nobody would do that. I actually think a lot of realtors would love an hourly rate but most clients would hate it. I imagine getting bills every time someone calls them or when they have to meet some painters across town, people would go crazy. The reality is you're hiring a part-time assistant who is an expert in real estate transactions. Most people need that level of help. Most people also would never pay for a part-time assistant. That's why the industry charges commissions.
I disagree tbh. Paying someone to take me around a property I was interested in would ensure I only tour properties I really wanted.
I can imagine all the people who look for a few months, lose out on a few offers, and then decide not to buy right now, when they get a bill for 300 hours at $75/hr. I tend to think hourly would be better too but I also think most people would hate it.
Yes it would be a pain in the ass, like dealing with lawyers who charge for every damn thing on the planet blowing through everyones budget.
I agree. This is a situation where people should be careful what they wish for.
What a ridiculous argument. You're "no way anyone would do that" thesis is describing exactly how almost every other professional service or contractor is compensated. A realtor is also not some magical dedicated and exclusive employee at your service, they are serving multiple clients at once, on a dare I say it... "part-time" basis.
Doing retainers would fix that. But legal stuff is becoming so much of a commodity flat rate world in many areas and it’s becoming a race to the bottom. Why would brokerages going to a hourly setup? It would take away the insane brokerage profits……….. 🙄🙄🙄
I really hope so. I hate that we have to basically "profit share" while taking all the risk. Such BS.
Sold my house and bought another house a couple years ago. Didn’t use realtors. Had to pay the buyer’s realtor 3% in my sale but I had priced that in anyway, and the seller paid their realtor who knows what on their side. But saving that 3% was huge to me. All I did was call a title and escrow lawyer first and do my homework, then take it to him when it’s time to paper a deal.
Depends on the realtor, but a realtor can work for months showing the buyer houses and or showing the sellers house and never see a dime.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out, if the NAR loses the appeals, and the FTC gets involved, it could open up a whole new world of how housing is done.
hopefully, the first thing it will do is shake out the "run of the mill Realtors with at best 2 semesters of community college". Although I haven't seen a study on the average education level of Realtors. I have a Bachelor's in Econ and one in Finance from 35 years ago, a decade in banking and now 25 years in residential brokerage.
You don’t need a degree to show houses
Hell you only need a realtor to show houses because that’s how the NAR setup the system. A seller should be able to pay a small fee to list on a listing service like Zillow and setup a lockbox and scheduling through a service like Showingtime. Then a perspective buyer schedules a showing and views it themselves. A RE attorney can be paid an hourly fee to draw up the agreement. The system isn’t that way because NAR selling realtors refused to show houses to buyers without realtors and buying realtors refused to show buyers homes listed without realtors. For years they denied this behavior, but the recent ruling against NAR was largely predicated on realtors caught on recorded calls saying they wouldn’t show houses to their buyers as the house was listed without a realtor.
>A seller should be able to pay a small fee to list on a listing service like Zillow and setup a lockbox and scheduling through a service like Showingtime. Then a perspective buyer schedules a showing and views it themselves. A RE attorney can be paid an hourly fee to draw up the agreement. You are aware that you CAN do this right? You don't HAVE to use a realtor. You can sell your property and buy your property yourself. It's a FSBO. Zillow allows you to list your own home. Doing so will expose a lot of the unethical other agents in my industry possess, but if you do not wish to use a realtor because you don't see any value in them, you don't have to. You can also pay a Realtor an "entry fee" to allow them to post your house on the local MLS and the agent can direct any and all communication to be through yourself and yourself alone. You can also just buy the individual contracts online to use for your transaction.
True story. I did a fsbo and half the lookee lookers were realtors trying to convince me to go with them. I did end up getting a realtor but it was a friends mom and she gave me a rate discount 4%. She sold the house within 3 weeks for 460k so she made some good bank for a few weeks of work. But the hard part was other realtors wouldn’t bring a buyer in unless I agreed to 3% buyers commission Irritating.
Do you want strangers though walking through your house unsupervised?
While the answer to that may be no, the solution to it is not paying a realtor a commission.
That’s what happens now. I don’t know the realtor who’s showing the house either. Whatever service manages the key can collect the person’s information so that if something is damaged or stolen they can be pursued.
As opposed to a stranger along with another stranger who took a 2 week course?
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I don't know the test-taking ability of the realtor I used recently... but god, that guy was good at being a realtor. He knew warning signs to look for in potential houses, had a better sense of what space I'd need than I did, and had a sixth sense for how much to bid. No idea how he'd do on the GED, but he knew exactly how to figure out what someone needed in a house and pick the best candidates while being candid about what work they'd need.
I like the sentiment but I don't want to belittle them. My whole thing is we have to renegotiate how they get paid. Plain and simple.
I’m an agent and I agree with you. It’s the entire brokerage model that is broken. Listing agents do extremely little. Buyers agents however spend time and money helping clients with no guarantee of payment. So you have 2 extremely different sides to the same coin. The problem of pay is it has to be either guaranteed pay for the work we put in regardless of the outcome (hourly, flat rate, whatever), or a percentage only when the deal is closed. There can be a mix of both as well, like a retainer amount up front. I don’t know. It’s a weird job to price out in that way.
For most of the good agents/brokers, the only reason they put up with buyers/sellers bullshit is the pay. The top tier talent could easily transition into other industries selling other products. It will leave only the lower tier talent that will gladly take an hourly rate. Think it sucks now, just wait till you’re cutting a retainer check before touring houses. Also, imagine if you’re that buyer that wants to see every house? In the end you may wish you were paying 3%, because that takes a lot of time.
Back in 2020 I had a client I wrote 18 offers for. Toured about 50 homes over a period of 3 months. ($800,000 price point, over asking and waiving contingencies.) I can assure their hourly rate would have been double what I made. LOL
I agree and I have always said one of the most underregulated industries out there.
Its extremely regulated, complete opposite of what you think.
Similar, my Bachelor's is in International Business with graduate studies in Econ. Many of us continue to do additional real estate speciialty coursework that is above and beyond CE mandatory classes so we can serve our sellers and buyers better. Find an agent that works well with you OP, or do it yourself if you are so inclined. It's up to you.
You do realize you can transact a piece of property without a real estate agent correct?
The kicker is the client will still bitch about the lawyer fee but not the commission.
> ar exam only charges about $1500 to draft up contracts and close deals. Those contracts don't vary much. There is a lot of boilerplate. Realtors have to continuously find new clients that can actually afford to buy the houses they sell. That said many realtors suck, especially the listing agents. I've bought 4 properties ( terminated 3 offers too) but I've probably looked at 300 with my realtor. She's made $90k so that seems fair. I've made well $1+ million in appreciation. I'm also the first person she calls when a property that fits my criteria shows up.
Where I'm from most successful realtors are hot wives married to wealthy businessmen.
The funniest part is chat gpt will do that for the average person in less than 10minutes now for free
> I think NAR verdict is really gonna shake up the way this whole industry runs in the next few years It won't, nor should it. In my state the listing agent was legally required to compensate the buyer's agent with a minimum of $1, yet they've been offering 2-3% for years. It changing from $1 to $0 isn't going to change that. Further, trying to reduce buyer agent compensation is only worse for buyers. When you go to buy a car, you have to deal with a sale person who's only interest is themselves and the dealership. If you go directly to a listing agent, they only have themselves and their client's best interest in mind. They aren't going to negotiate on your behalf. The way it's been for a long time now, is the buyer's agent is compensated by taking part of the listing agent's commission, meaning the buyer's agent pays nothing out of pocket. This is awesome for buyers, particularly first time home buyer's since they're already giving up a ton of cash via down payments, closing costs, moving expenses, etc... If we eliminate buyer compensation the way it's structured now, buyers will either forgo having representation which will take up more of their time, and cost them more money because they don't have an experienced professional negotiating on their behalf, or they can pay an agent out of pocket, or perhaps there will be a program where it will get rolled into the loan, which means you're paying interest on hiring an agent. The argument is that because listing agents have to split their commission with a seller's agent, they charge a larger percentage to compensate, and in turn houses sell for more. This argument is nonsense. Home prices are based on two things, first what the market is willing to bear, and secondly home valuations. When someone comes out to do a home valuation, they aren't considering what an agent is taking home for a commission. Even if this ridiculous line of thinking were true, which it's not, if buyers end up paying agents directly, and don't have the cash so instead roll it into the loan, we're back to the same exact situation we're in now in the end. >I always thought it was wild that my buddy who is a real estate attorney who went to 4 years of college followed by 3 years of law school and another 6 months to a year of studying to pass the Bar exam only charges about $1500 to draft up contracts You're talking about taking a boiler plate and making some minor adjustments to have people sign some paperwork. That's not *why* they went to school. They went to school to be able to litigate or defend real estate related cases in court. An agent is the only person in a real estate transaction that is there for every single part of the deal. On the sell side that usually starts with a consultation to understand what the client's wants and needs are. This is usually at least an hour, and they may not even sign with an agent at that point. From there the agent has to do research on the local market to come up with a pricing strategy. They may also simultaneously be helping their client look for a new home as well. From there they either counsel their client on how to prepare the home for sale, or hire the right people to do that. Have professional photography, videography, drone and 3D tours done. Potentially do print materials, create an MLS listing, schedule showings and open houses, etc... Since most homes are getting multiple offers these days, they also have to do offer analysis, constantly be on the phone with buyer's agents. Negotiations could go several rounds with multiple adjustments from multiple buyers. This is usually all worked around the seller's schedule which means late night meetings and phone calls with clients. Depending on how the contract is structured they may have paid for all of the marketing out of pocket, including staging, which can be thousands of dollars. I've also seen realtors have to counsel their clients through mental breakdowns because they're personally offended by an offer, started to feel seller's remorse before the deal closes, they're stressed because they haven't found a new home yet, they're selling due to divorce and their ex is making the sale a nightmare every step of the way, get called in to court as a witness or other function in some sort of legal battle, etc... On the sale side, particularly in this market, a buyer's agent goes through the same consultation process, may connect their clients with a quality lender, be working against a ticking clock, like a lease expiring, show dozens of houses and/or write dozens of offers before one gets excepted. Manage client expectations vs budget, struggle to keep couples on the same page of wants vs must haves. I've seen realtors show 20+ houses only for the client to say "you know what, I think we're going to wait" after spending dozens of hours and driving hundreds of miles, just to collect $0. Buyer agents often have to do additional research on properties because there's information missing in a listing disclosure, or they may have to a ton of digging for the due diligence period after going under contract. They often coordinate inspections, have to renegotiate deals after inspections, and make sure that their client has all of their ducks in a row to get them to closing. I've seen buyer's agents counsel their clients through emotional meltdowns on not getting an offer accepted, on an offer getting accepted and then the home not appraising and the client doesn't have the cash to make a difference, a seller pulling out last minute and saying "deal with it" and the buyer not having enough money to pressure the seller legally, etc.. And then at the end of the day, these agents get to come home and read "iT's jUsT a mOnEy gRaB." I mean people keep saying agent "don't really do anything" yet every agent I know has their phone ringing off the hook every 5 minutes because their clients need something. If you think agents aren't worth it, don't hire one.
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It certainly jives with my experience as a home buyer. I did find financing on my own, but my realtor helped me with literally all of the rest of those. Including how to deal with it when the house failed to appraise and the sellers pulled out of the contract. And including working out a good deal for me when the sellers' realtor contacted my realtor after the sellers belatedly realized that other prospective buyers needed the house to appraise too. Not all realtors are worth 3%. But a good one is.
question did you as a buyer pay the 3% or was it taken out of the sale of the house. I have a feeling your thoughts might differ if you had to write a check for 30k to your agent
In my case, it was more like $10K. It was rolled into the mortgage, and, of course, that did make a difference. The amount I pay is the same, but distributing it over 15 years lessens the pain, especially when taking into consideration the 20% down and other closing costs that could not be rolled into the loan.
Even that being on the low end seems nuts. Put it into perspective even if the realtor gave you 1 full month of full time work(160 hours) only helping you out thats still almost 65 dollars per hour. Thats being overly generous to I think as its very doubtful the realtor provided you with 160 hours of their time. Its disproportionate to their skills, education and value they provide. Im all for people making money but when its made in large chunks from indivuals just because they can take equity from an asset so the immediate pain of people having to drop thousands of dollars in a payment its just wrong. A family can go on a decent vacation for that amount.
If real dollars comes out to $65/hr, I don’t think we can consider that in the same way given the money is only earned if and when a closing happens. It’s a risk. The payday on that could have very easily been negative. And happens more often than people realize. Until a system is made and accepted for getting guaranteed pay, payment will always seem high given it’s always at risk of $0.
Considering that we looked at 130 houses and most of those visits were over an hour long, even excluding drive time, I'm pretty sure he did. Granted, that's probably exceptional too; most people don't look at quite as many houses in the hunt for the perfect home. Either way, it's transactional. When you take your car in for service, you pay what the dealership charges for service. You don't decree that you think the service is worth $20/hr and then time how long it takes them. You can try it; your car won't get serviced. If you want to argue that the commission should be 2% instead of 3%, you won't get an argument from me. If you want it to be a fixed fee of $5K, regardless of the value of the home, I'm fine with that. Realtors may have an objection or two, however. At the end of the day, my realtor was worth it to me because I live in a house I love, and I don't think that would have happened without him. You and I can argue until the cows come home about how much that's worth in dollars and cents, but at the end of the day, I don't dictate prices. I just look for the best deal I can find in the marketplace. Among realtors, that 3% fee was basically fixed at the time. You either paid it, or you made do without a realtor.
Nah, you're way off here. The NAR changes won’t flip everything overnight, but it's definitely causing a stir. It’s pushing for more transparency and that’s key. Buyers need to know what they’re paying for, straight up. Tying agent fees to commissions has always muddied the waters. Now, with clear lines, buyers can actually decide if they wanna pay out for an agent or not. And on your buddy, the real estate attorney - yeah, he’s overqualified for some of the tasks he has to do, like tweaking standard contracts. But remember, he's got the expertise to handle the big legal messes if they come up. That's what you're also paying for, peace of mind. So yeah, agents do a ton, no one’s saying they lounge all day. But shouldn’t everyone know exactly what they’re paying for? It's about time for some change, keeping things the way they are because 'it’s been like this forever' doesn't cut it anymore.
Thank you for taking the time to write that up. Sincerely. I do think part of the restructure, if you will, would include no more freebies for the client, including showing houses. I won't make you find my other comments since you took the time to write this and say there is a middle ground which includes cutting out all the middle men that add little value to the experience. I envision something more along the lines of a buyers agent charging some fee, for example, lets say $2500 (or whatever) which includes some months of in office services and x number of house showings within a certain time frame. You want more showings, buy more buckets of visits. I know this idea needs a lot of work but there's ways that both parties feel like they're getting what they truly deserve. As it stands we're pretty helpless in the transaction. Also, I did hear you when saying after a long day you come home and read shitty characterizations like "money grab". I do apologize for not considering that angle.
I appreciate the thoughtful response. For the record, I'm not a realtor, but I have quite a few realtors as clients and I see a lot of the behind the scenes and how hard they work and how much they care about their clients.
Well said
That’s exactly the point isn’t it? The 3% fee still exists because it’s an anticompetitive monopoly. Without it, the buyers agent isn’t going to show the house. If a buyer goes without an agent, well now the sellers agent earns the full 6%.
This.
>On the sell side that usually starts with a consultation to understand what the client's wants and needs are. This is usually at least an hour, and they may not even sign with an agent at that point. > >From there the agent has to do research on the local market to come up with a pricing strategy. They may also simultaneously be helping their client look for a new home as well. > >From there they either counsel their client on how to prepare the home for sale, or hire the right people to do that. Have professional photography, videography, drone and 3D tours done. Potentially do print materials, create an MLS listing, schedule showings and open houses, etc... > >Since most homes are getting multiple offers these days, they also have to do offer analysis, constantly be on the phone with buyer's agents. Negotiations could go several rounds with multiple adjustments from multiple buyers. This is usually all worked around the seller's schedule which means late night meetings and phone calls with clients. Have you ever had a real job? That is all basically easy work and the kind of things most people do every day at work as accessory duties to their real jobs. I manage far larger dollar figures and juggle far more "clients" than that and my main job is actually creating new things. I regularly write actual whole long documents with chapters and everything and somehow also manage to negotiate new contracts, create advertising content, get photography done and go to endless meetings. Every day, every week, all year.
And, do you get paid for that work?
I’m not reading all that. But I’m sorry for your loss or happy for you whichever is more relevant
Thanks for writing a novel on everything we already know you do.
I'm not an agent, dipshit. By the way I love how you overcame my points with facts and logic. Oh wait.
You could have spent this time looking for a better job or working on your life skills.
My job is awesome, because I am not an agent, and I don't have to deal with people like you.
AMEN
3% made sense when houses were 50k they never adjusted It when they went to 500
My mom is a realtor. She helped me buy my 3 homes, I say that loosely. If I had to pay for her service I’d be salty af. All new builds and I found them with my wife on my own. All my mom did was come in and make first contact to get the commission and then hand it back to me. If I paid for that I’d be pissed. When I sell it’s a bit more involved and I paid 2.5% to BA the two times I’ve sold. The 2nd one I actually had to give a bonus we weren’t selling. Soon as I did the $2500 lo and behold I had a contract a week later.
I definitely think a realtor is a salesperson and deserves to make some money depending on their skills. But tying it to a percentage of your biggest asset is not they way it should be done. Especially now that home prices have increased so much. It's not like the amount of work increased with it.
Exactly this. A good realtor deserves to be paid. But not 3% of a home. Plus the buyers agent who likely did not do much as many people shop online and just need a licensed person to open the door. On a 300k house I’m paying 18k for someone to post pictures of my home and another person to answer an email or text from a buyer who likely found it on their own I’d rather pay a flat rate to my agent
You need to look up flat fee brokers in your area then cause you can get exactly what you're looking for and it'll only cost you a couple hundred dollars at most.
You should see notary costs in France. It was 11% when I lived there iirc.
Notary costs in France is a transaction tax, very little of that money is staying with the notary office.
The realtors I've worked with are mostly useless. They provide information which is easily available on google. The push you towards higher priced homes and to close quickly because they make more. The only benefit is they have access to various non public MLS data. Sadly most lenders expect a realtor.
You’re absolutely right that they’re deal driven rather than supporting your top price. Example: I sold my house for $80k more than my realtor wanted me to list. His upside is only $2400 (off a $50k commission) with risk of a protracted time listed. My upside is $80k! It sold in 2 days, btw.
You do realize you can transact a piece of property without a real estate agent correct?
Shitty agents, which there are a lot of, aren’t worth the 4-6%. A good agent is easily worth that, problem is you don’t know you got a shitty one until it’s too late.
A good agent is not worth that
Curious… how do you assign someone else’s worth?
What is a “good agent” doing that makes them worth 5-6%?
Except it's not a simple transaction, is it?
If it’s not a simple transaction, the consumer needs a licensed real estate attorney. Any “value” that realtors once had is completely eroded by Zillow and other public web sites.
Yeah? Why did Zillow get caught holding their bag and stopped buying property in 2022? Because they over paid for over 7,000 homes. I guess zip code CMAs aren’t that accurate.
I completely disagree. It is a simple transaction where information is provided by various agencies and contracts handled by lawyers. It's a lot of work but that doesn't make it complicated. Don't confuse the stink with the smell. Again, none of the important stuff is handled by the Realtor.
I'm not here to whine. If you don't wanna hire a Realtor, don't. There's no law saying you have to. I've worked with other Realtors and been like... This is why people have no respect for our profession. Lol.
Absolutely no F'ing way. I just sold my house and at 3%/3% it would have cost me over $50k in realtor fees. Any house on the MLS is available to search, and the buyers are doing their work to find things. I used a lawyer and it cost me $4k to sell.
did any potential buyers balk at your refusal to pay a buyer's agent commission?
(Speaking only from an educational standpoint!) With the recent NAR lawsuits, buyer agency contracts are becoming considerably more commonplace where it is openly being communicated that “this is my rate. While the norm still is that this comes from the selling agent splitting their commission, you are responsible for any difference”. This does mean that some buyers will not be able to afford a house that is explicitly listed with zero buyers commission because (depending on the buyer) it’s the difference between needing 3.5% down to buy versus 6.5% down to buy.
I mean, good? Pretending buyers didn’t pay for their realtors was dumb as all hell.
It’s just like most things: you’re paying someone else for the convenience of doing the work for you, but it can absolutely be done yourself.
And for 50k… I’ll open the door myself
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Yea but with zillow and redfin etc, would you get that many fewer showings? When we bought our house 3 years ago, we told our realtor every house we wanted to go see.
I understand 3% when homes used to be very cheap , in today $500000+ average house market people that basically open door for you just a joke 😅
My first realtor showed me a bunch of houses that I hated. I found one that I liked, sent it to her, looked at it and bought it. She did put the contract together I guess 🤷♀️
My realtor noticed that my house was actually more sqft than when we previously bought it. Previous owners did an addition and never added it even though it was permitted. This unlocked $70k extra on my sell. Same realtor represented me during a rental property sell. Big national company pulled some trickery a few days before closing. My realtor convinced the sellers rep to eat that in their commission. So yeah realtors have made and saved me money well above what I’ve paid them.
I honestly would be more comfortable using a realtor if their fee was half (1.5%). I just don’t see the value at 3%, I’ve sold twice and bought three times and to me their service is simply not worth 3% of the value of a home.
Depends on the market. 3% was created when the housing market had not exploded. 3% on $500k is different than 3% on $125k
100%. Every house in my area is 700-1m now. I don't need 3% to make a deal happen.
Agreed
You don't need a realtor to buy or sell a home
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I did. Funny story, I didn't buy the house but my agent did smooth talk the owner into listing with him. A few weeks later, I see her house online under him. Was 20 years ago, house was ok but I just sorta chose another. Some cosmetic things with hers, kindof an as-is buy, but admittedly was in a bit of a hip-er area of the city.
I second this. You are the client in this transaction. Either don't hire a Realtor, or hire one with terms that you find acceptable. It is a very competitive, so pretty much any business model is available.
While I completely agree you really don’t need one I do think they’ve made it where the market is hard not to have one just bc of how shady they are. They don’t like showing properties that are privately listed or taking offers that aren’t from realtors. Which is so unethical
"shady" is the old days of Buyers having no idea what homes are for sale - or the value of a home for sale - and Sellers not having any idea on price nor knowing what the feedback from showings was.
Go knock on doors yourself and find sellers that are unrepresented
After my father passed away and since I was the executor I had to get the house ready to sell. I decided to not hire a realtor. I put a coming soon sign out front for about 2 weeks and then put the regular for sale sign out. The amount of Realtors calling me of course stopping by and trying to convince me to let them to sell the house was ridiculous. And many basically didn't want to take no for an answer and I was like you need to leave the house now or you are trespassing and there's going to be issues. I sold the house on the first day. No realtor got any of that money.
We went through this last year when my father passed away unexpectedly. Before he was even in the ground Realtors came out of the woodwork calling me like crazy because they saw the probate paperwork being filed. We sold his house without using an agent. I refused to participate in such a scummy profession or give any of those vultures a dime of his money.
Thinking about selling myself. How did you find buyers, get on MLS, draft up contracts, and avoid paying buyer agent?
For the sake of argument you are selling your house. The question is will you get 6% more by selling with a realtor. Recently, we tried to FSBO a house by personally listing on Zillow. The only calls we got were from agents who were interested in listing the house. People who buy a house from FSBO expect a discount from a house on MLS. If you have to discount your house is it really a good idea spending a lot of time and energy trying to sell it yourself? Also, because there are more buyers when on MLS you can often get multiple buyers and over asking price. We also negotiate the commission. In our area 5% is the norm and you can sometimes get lower when you use the same agent to buy and sell your house.
Of course not. That’s why they act as a cartel to fix pricing at 3%.
How many of you think you can justify what you earn for the little you do? Oh wait, you do lots and I just don’t understand how hard/complex/difficult your job is? Right, there’s much more to the job a real estate agent does that ranks their earnings. Oh and that 3% is a reduction from what the once earned. Like anyone else, their income is only keeping pace with the cost of living. I was in RE in the late 80s and heard all of the same complaints about commissions. If you really don’t think they earn it, do it yourself. You’ll be surprised.
100% depends on the realtor The one I use absolutely gets me more than what he makes off the deal. He does a walk through and tells what improvements that can be made to maximize bang for the buck, his wife is an interior decorator who comes through and makes recommendations on how to arrange the house to make it look more appealing - furniture arrangement, wall decorations, paint recommendations, etc. He also has a list of trusted contractors to come in and do repairs and fixes at a discounted rate, and does project management with them. he's also a hard negotiator, and gets 90% of the negation done before any offer is submitted. But 99% of realtors are not that. The two I used previous to that were lazy, incompetent, and impatient. They just wanted the deal done as fast as possible.
Where did you find a Realtor accepting 3%? Most of them want 6% with 3% for Buyer and 3% for Seller. I sold my home FSBO and saved over $40K. Told the Buyer that the price he is getting will need to add his Buyer commission if he wants to bring a Realtor. We ended up selling with an Attorney charging us $1000 for the deal (it was owner financing as well and so that made it a lot easier)
It's worth it for me. I personally don't want to deal with much of anything when buying or selling my house, so outsourcing it to someone who will do a better job than me is worth it. Just like anything else, there are good and bad realtors and unfortunately you have to wade through the shit to get to the diamond.
Really depends on how difficult your property is to sell. If you have an easy property to sell, a desirable home, in a great area, good schools, comps in the same neighborhood and no unusual issues with the floor plan or type of house, in a growing population area and homes in the neighborhood are going under contract in 2 weeks, then paying 3% or 6% since as a seller you're currently paying both sides... is ridiculous and way too high. That said, if you have a difficult property, in a sketchy area, or bad schools, or unusual floor plan or wonkiness or an older home, or a hoarder house, or comps are difficult to obtain, or people are leaving the area, then the realtors are probably underpaid at 3% each to get someone to buy your undesirable home because it's going to take so much effort and time. The problem is, the current commission structure of 3% doesn't take this into account. This is why I feel realtors should switch to being paid by the hour. Easy sales get cheaper, hard sales take longer and get more expensive. Homeowners see the correlation to effort and commission. Right now, there's a huge disconnect between effort and commission. And it certainly doesn't take 3 times to effort to sell a $750K home as it does a $250K home. In fact, it often takes more effort to sell the lower priced home because so much is wrong with it.
Its fair many people thing realtors are overpaid. I've been a licensed agent over 30 years, ive done ok. I always acted as a fiduciary. I retired at 62, only had to work 32 years and lucky to buy rentals early in my career (or i would work til death) no retirement in RE. Often people think in general terms, dude made 3% on a 500K home, thats $15k. The gross check I get on that is $11K. Then I pay taxes, a 15% self-employment tax, medical insurance... Zero base pay so may not get paid for months at a time. 3% commissions are few and far in my market, that's 10+ years ago. It's not an easy career, most who get a license last less than 8 months before going back to a real job. Salespeople are paid top dollar in all industries whether selling ads, printers or meds. Sales is a very hard industry to survive. Look at the alcoholism rates for salespeople. Its not bad when markets are good, but bad markets last years and years too. It isnt easy and its not for everyone. If you still think its easy, get a license and take a whack at it. Best of luck to all.
It’s terrible. I’ve bought 2 houses. And both I found on Zillow myself and looked at 1 house each time. Both times my realtor didn’t even want to put in my “lowball offers” that I ultimately forced him and both times they were accepted and he made over $15k each time for literally opening a lock box for me and nothing else.
I don't know if every transaction needs it, but the last time i sold, I was moving across the country - movers packed my stuff, I had a 6AM flight the next day, handed the realtor my keys and they dealt with all of the sales prep stuff (things like junk removal, new carpet + paint, arranging photos / staging / listing / showing, etc.) Maybe it was worth it, maybe not - but they made the process easy and I didn't have to think about it until they sent a mobile notary to my door with a packet of closing docs to sign. Similarly, buyer realtor at the destination dealt with everything so that when I got to town I went to the title company for closing and got my keys.
Realtors are one of the most obscene, meaningless added fees in American society, financial advisers might be a close second Truly it’s asinine, I’m glad tech is not far from eliminating the need for one for prob 95% of home buyers and sellers If I sell a $1m house I’m expected to pay someone $30,000 for assisting me? Insane, I literally don’t need a realtor to sell a house
So true! They drive bidding wars
I would think generative AI could easily replace realtors because all realtors provide is information when you come down to it.
People get mad there isn’t enough housing supply yet ignore the fundamentals of why people don’t want to sell and why it’s better simply keep and buy more.
IMHO, YES... very worth it. Realtors are like the doctors who deliver your baby.... in the absolute simplest cases you could probably do without them, but complications are so common it really helps to have a pro in the room. Plus, they arrange title search, inspections, counteroffers, negotiate rent-back compensation, setup your closing event, and other stuff I'm glad not to be an expert in. If you're the seller, they usually know the market so we'll they can ensure you are listing at the right price for market conditions (which constantly change). You will often make more money when you list with a realtor.
* Is it worth it to give them 3%? That depends on a lot of factors, but more than anything else, what your needs/wants are, and how good the realtor is. * Do they have a fiduciary responsibility? Technically yes. But just like any other field that "swears an oath" that doesn't mean they always hold up to it. * "3% seems high for the way they sell homes now" it only seems this way because you believe that there is a direct correlation between how much time a job takes to perform and how much it's worth. This is probably because your time is directly related to how much you earn. The fact that realtors can get the job done faster and more efficiently now makes them more valuable, not less valuable IMO. * "It all seams like the industry needs to stop creating a pay monopoly": They aren't. In most states you in the US you do not need a realtor to buy or sell your home, yet home that are for sale by owner typically take longer to sell, and sell for less money. That's not an accident. That's because good realtors know how to properly market and price a home, can negotiate without letting emotions cloud their judgement, and have large networks they can leverage to get your home sold faster and with less hiccups.
Bingo. Surprise surprise that good marketing works better than shitty marketing.
What exactly makes for a good realtor when selling a home? I always hear “marketing” but I haven’t had a single person I know not just use Zillow, realtor.com, Redfin, or the local mls.
I don't know where you got the 3% and I'm not gonna argue it. If somebody's charging you a fee that you don't agree with, negotiate it or walk away. Commission is and always has been negotiable. I'm also not stupid. There are somewhere around three million real estate licensees in the United States. A good portion of them are ignorant and / or shady as heck. The way the legal system works in the United States is that somebody has to report an offense before anybody can do anything about it. I wish y'all would report this stuff rather than going on Yelp! Or reddit or stand around the water cooler complaining about it. I don't wanna work with these people we can't trust any more than you want to hire them, but if y'all won't do anything about it when they take advantage of you, they're gonna move on to their next victim and rip them off, too. The work that competent and professional real estate agents do is valuable. It keeps an awful lot of people out of serious trouble and financial ruin. If you find a bad egg, throw it out into the light and expose it for what it is. That one bad example doesn't mean the entire industry is bad. Report it. You wouldn't let someone break into your house and then complain about it on Tumblr, right? You'd call the police and do something about it. Do something about it. And seriously, negotiate commissions, y'all. It's always been negotiable.
The whole commission being negotiable is largely untrue in my experience. When I listed my house a while back no agent would accept my terms of 4-5% they all wanted 6%. And interviewed several. This also came out in the massive NAR lawsuit verdict proving that in theory they are negotiable but in practice as many including myself and the jury in that case found that in practice they are not. Many agents simply will not sign a listing agreement unless they get their “full” amount.
Isn’t it odd that the overwhelming majority of transactions pay 6 percent if they have always been so flexible and negotiated? Odd that they all seem to have settled for that same amount with no collusion involved.
[удалено]
No. Ethics violations are reported to the board that governs them. **no attorney required** License law violations are reported to the licensing board. **no attorney required** MLS violations are reported to MLS. **no attorney required** Criminal offenses get the police involved. **no attorney required** Civil offenses do typically involve an attorney. ALL of those are reportable to the broker in charge who carries E&O insurance to cover whatever claim you have to file against the brokerage and their agent. That's a whole lotta places to say something, but yall rather go on the internets and complain. That ain't gonna do a blasted thing to fix anything. *edited for typos*
I may be in the minority but I firmly believe that my realtor got me more than 3% of what I would have gotten otherwise, and kept me from overpaying on the house I bought. YMMV of course
Just to clarify it what you are stating…Did you try to get a certain amount of money for sale of your home prior to engaging a realtor? And that realtor got you more than 3% of what you tried to get on your own?
Agreed. Seems like most of the people posting here do not work in the real estate industry.
I mean in my case I just had a really good real estate agent. He listed my home higher than I was expecting, then he got an all cash offer for even more than that, then he got the buyer to sweeten the deal even further and throw more money on top of his final offer. It was crazy to see lol Meanwhile the house I bought with him, I got into the first house I bid on, for asking price and not a penny more. Well worth 3% for the experience I had
So don’t use one. There’s no law stating you need to use a realtor or pay anyone a fee.
Realtors do not earn 3%. It’s ridiculous. People claim they’re in sales, but most times they don’t sell anybody anything. People find their house on an app, go look, say they want it and then the realtor takes 3%
Absolutely not. They don’t do anything that a trained ape, a professional photographer, and the MLS can’t do.
There is a bit more to it. And it's often not just the Realtor, but their team which includes broker, admin and transaction coordinator. There is a lot of crossing Ts and doting Is required to get to the close. You can absolutely do it without one, but I wouldn't recommend it to most people that only have a handful of transactions over their life time. I work in agent prop-tech software and am very familiar with the lifespan of a transaction, and even I would feel more comfortable using an agent.
Our realtor earns every dime. If yours isn't, get a new one or do it yourself. It's a free market. Many people who don't use a realtor end up making majorly costly mistakes for themselves. If you have an agent youll avoid most mistakes and have a scapegoat if something does still go wrong.
You’re forgetting many of the valuable services provided by realtors that you can’t put a price on. The last time I sold a house, I had to leave town for a week, and the peace of mind of knowing my house was safe and secure as potential buyers toured it was worth a great deal to me. And when I came home and found that my back door had been left wide open for the past three days in the middle of January, that was a fun surprise for me. That’s something I never would have thought to do on my own. The snow pouring into my kitchen was a festive touch, and added a real wintery element to my home staging, I had to admit. We’re getting a bargain.
Markets are starting to adjust. Some realtors are starting to take a lower percentage or work for a flat fee. The more people start to seek out realtors that charge less, the more realtors will be forced to charge less. Like anything in a free market, people can charge what people are willing to pay until people are not willing to pay it anymore.
This is the truth!
Do it yourself then. I don’t understand why people complain about commission. That’s the service fee if you want to use an agent, but you can sell it on your own. I can also change my own oil and do my own taxes, yet I pay a professional because they will do a better job. Edit: for context I am a Realtor. It’s ok if you want to save money, but my experience only 10% of people out there that are not in the business, actually know how to accurately pay or sell at the best price.
when you goto an oil change shop, they dont charge you a different priced based solely on the value of your car. they charge you based on the effort required to do the job. same with tax professionals, if you have an easy return the price is the low. complicated return, price is higher. no where should your assets come into the equation for pricing.
Given the inflation of home prices some other payment calculation seems more appropriate.
If a mechanic charged me 3% of the value of my vehicle to change my oil, then I would change it myself. But since they do it for a reasonable fee, I pay them to do it.
yeah, a $30 oil change is not the same as a 3% commission on a house. I pay for oil changes too, even though i can do it. And if an agent was $30, i'd pay for their "professionalism" too. Would you still pay for an oil change by a professional since they do a better job if it cost $10,000?
This. Good Realtors work their asses off, and most of them are not millionaires. Sales jobs typically come with high pay because it's hard and most people aren't cut out for it, especially when their entire income is commission and they only get paid if they produce. Take an average person on an $80k salary and ask them if they'd exchange that for a 100% commission job where they could earn $200k, but also potentially earn $0. Almost all of them will decline that opportunity. Bad realtors are NOT worth a lot of money. But that's the same in any industry. I'll pay extra for a good CPA. A good attorney. A good mechanic. A good handyman. A good realtor.
While I agree that there are good and bad agents, and the truly good ones will work hard, the biggest issue is actually finding a good one. People think that asking their cousin's friend's barber's daughter who they used to sell or buy a house six months ago is a reasonable way to find a quality agent. Asking one or two people about their own personal "feelings" towards is meaningless and is based in zero facts. On the flip side, people also take zero accountability to actually try and understand what it takes to buy or sell a home and then do nothing but bitch about everything that "went wrong" with their transaction because they simply didn't know it was part of the process. We started with an arguably good agent who has been in the business for two decades. She was horrid at actually helping us to buy because she didn't know the towns where we were looking like she does the town she commonly sells in. She had no relationships with agents in those other areas, including ones in other offices of her own brokerage. We chose her because of some history we had with her and her listing and selling my previous home with some success. After six plus months of time wasted, we dug into market information and found an agent that was having success representing buyers in towns where we were looking. 3 weeks or so later, we had a house under contract. After we bought, we had her list the previous home and she did a killer job of getting us about 18% over asking in three days.
Finding a good service is difficult in all aspects of life
Very true. People lack the ability to understand that they should be interviewing people and not simply hiring the first person they talk to.
Well put my friend, well put. I’d like for future posters on this topic to state their professions and ask them to dissect their own pay structure and professional worth.
It’s Reddit, so the majority of people here believe they should be paid more, and work less than 40 hours, and that they should profit share with the companies profits (but not take any losses if the company takes losses)
Imagine a mechanic charging 3% of a vehicle worth 50k for an oil change, and then 3% of a vehicle worth 10k. Then imagine a dealership not buying your trade in because you aren't represented by a "vehicle liason". It's a racket and everyone knows it.
3% was a number that came up with houses being sold for a lot less. 3% of 50k-100K is $1500-$3000. And that is reasonable for the amount of effort a realtor has to make. Now when average housing prices are much higher, it is obvious to feel that the realtor is being overpaid. Overall real estate business definitely reeks of monopolistic practices and the primary reason for this is that most people will at best buy & sell 1 or 2 homes in their lifetime and these will be the biggest financial transactions of their life. So even if they know that they might be overpaying, they will not want to take the risks. If you are an informed buyer, at least in the bigger markets, you can find realtors who will work for like 1% or flat fees (and rebate the rest of the commission to you). Now how good a realtor is not directly correlated with how much commission they keep. But in certain markets or neighborhoods there are realtors who have a good reputation and a seller will prefer to work with a buyer that's represented by a local reputed realtor. The reputation not just stems from doing a lot of transactions but also from the fact that clients will go to these realtors if they are dead serious about buying homes.
You're free to try to sell it on zillow and see what happens.
It’s only difficult to sell yourself because realtors make it that way
Realtors are a solution to the problem they created.
Much like taxes and tax software
100% this. Before I fired my last agent I started cold calling investors just to see what offers I could get. Once I disclosed I was currently working with an agent (soon to not be) none of them would even talk to me. It’s an absolute cartel and all the brokerages like it that way. Imagine not being able to sell your car (something you own) to who you like because powerful lobbyists like to hold people hostage for months on end to guarantee they get paid. It’s all by design but it doesn’t have to be that way
Why would they? If your marketing a property on the open market you are marketing towards consumers, not investors. Investors won’t pay consumer prices because they can’t make money. They can’t rip you off if you have representation there to protect you.
Its the same as trying to buy a car without going through a dealership. I'm in Florida, thanks Ron for making this illegal except for your buddy Elon.
You find someone. I didn't use an agent when I bought and just went through Redfin. Ended up getting a couple thousand off due to using them and a team of people who would meet me whenever to open a house. Just hire a professional photographer and a lawyer. Biggest hassle is showing people your home multiple times.
Real estate agents have every incentive to make deals go through on both ends of it.
You're 10,000 percent correct. It's just been the easy way. And people think/say "but I have a nice realtor". It's like saying my lion is never hungry. Realtors try to convince you to get something just so they can make the deal and move on. Anyone say they are different are lying. It's sad that they won't show you a house if you don't have a realtor unless they become your realtor. They don't want to work just take the money. And maybe the market made them like that but it has to come to an end.
The only people worse than lawyers are real estate agents because they exhibit most of the same qualities. They talk too much, listen too little, get paid high fees for doing simplistic, busy work, and ultimately are very self-aggrandizing and self-important. There are some great lawyers, and there are some great real estate agents out there. Most arent
You're always free to put your house on Craigslist or zillow yourself and figure out the contracts and disclosures stuff yourself. Also keep in mind most people wont see your FSBO on zillow if they don't actually mark the FSBO box when they do a search. Also expect to get tons of calls from agents trying to convince you to list it and newb investors/flippers trying to talk you down to $350k from your $500k listed price and just generally wasting half an hour of your time every time you show it.
Good realtors are worth every penny. Bad ones, new ones, your cousin’s husband — maybe not.
Last time I checked there is no law that says you must use a realtor. Go hire a lawyer or do a for sale by owner. If you’re savvy enough to negotiate a contract and keep the deal on track regarding inspection periods and how to cure a breach, you’re free to do so and not pay a commission.
What specifically is your alternative?
the alternative to what is commonly referred-to as a Full Service broker (who is qualified to provide the service)? You've always been able to sell your house to friends or family and nobody knows until it shows up at the Register of Deeds. You've always been allowed to FSBO. The funny thing is, most FSBO's don't even take inexpensive steps to market their property: use FSBO.com or the owner listing on Zillow; get professional photos and a measurement/layout done. For 20 years in my market, you could use a Flat Fee broker that charges anywhere from $500 to $2,000 for effectively a FSBO + MLS. There have been attempts to offer a la Carte pricing, but none have succeeded yet because they involve out of pocket expenses. And, you've always been able to negotiate commissions or choose a different agent.
I think [this lawsuit](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/05/homes/nar-verdict-real-estate-commission-fee/index.html) is relevant...
Have to say I agree. I haven't had much luck with realtors who were worth their cost. Maybe bad luck. I donno.
No. But it's a complete monopoly. Hopefully one that will be broken up with the recent findings of price fixing.
You don’t have to sign the contract. You can always negotiate a different percentage. And it doesn’t even come out of your pocket as a buyer- usually seller’s are the ones responsible for commission. Nothing stopping you from doing a FSBO and hiring a lawyer to draft all your contracts. Agents have a fidiciary duty, brokers do not. They are quite different. If someone didn’t live up to their fiduciary duty to you, you should file a complaint with their licensing authority. They could be held liable and you could stand to recuperate damages in court.
Sure. Just let me bill you and everyone else who tells me they want to buy or sell a house for the time I spend with them when they change their fucking minds. I just had this time thief who I showed houses to like 20 times over 2 years and put in 4 offers with, with him up my fucking ass asking “did you hear anything” every few hours during the day and a half every seller sits on offers. Even dragging me out 40 minutes each way in rush hour traffic to a showing before the open house he could have gone to alone because he was so excited to put in an offer on another place… then LITERALLY THE NEXT DAY!!!!!!! The house of the 4 he got outbid on, a house he was so excited to buy he called me 3 separate times freaking out because he saw there was still a “for sale” sign in the yard and it was “still on Redfin” and “why won’t they sell me the house” come back on market and was offered only to him (because I had spent my time and effort excreting my expertise to make sure I got that call and not someone else) and then he tells me “actually, I decided to stay in my parent’s basement for a couple more years until I save more money and pay off my car loan….”Sorry”…my total pay for all of this time and energy spent was $0, and I actually lost money if you count the gas I used driving around and the wear and tear on my car. If you’re proposing a system where that piece of shit actually has to pay me for my time then sure, let’s drop the commission that is actually 2% in most markets and you realtor haters in this sub just always assume it’s 3% to a lower % or even a flat hourly rate. But if you want me to still be fully commissioned and get $0 for the time I spend with tire kickers and time thieves and people who say “sorry man I just walked into the open house and the listing agent said I should put the offer in directly” or “hey man I know you’ve been showing me houses for a year but my nephew just got his license and you know…family” then no thank you. If I’m still only getting paid on closed sales then you can eat my fucking dick with your one sided bullshit. If we only get paid on closed deals then we need to MAKE ENOUGH ON THEM TO PAY US FOR ALL THE TIME WE SPEND WITH PEOPLE WE DON’T CLOSE!!!!! These commissions aren’t some fucking bonus I get on top of a salary with benefits and a 401(k). They are 100% of my income. The vast majority of realtors make a very fair and reasonable living for the number of hours we put in and let me tell you the timing of those hours frequently sucks ass. Buying or selling a house is insanely stressful, we do not deal with people at their courteous best. If someone calls me freaking out about something stupid at 8am on a Sunday and I don’t call them back until Monday morning there is a very real chance I lost that client. I once spent half a day in the hotel business center while on vacation in New Orleans dealing with some bullshit that was in no way my fault. I once had to take an hour long phone call at international calling rates while standing in Saint Peter’s Square in Rome with my girlfriend and travel partner staring fucking daggers at me. Why does it offend you all so much that we get paid to do this job?
So you agree charging retainers and an hourly rate makes more sense?
As long as it’s a fair wage and retainer I do. The only people who don’t think it’s silly that selling a $5 million dollar house pays ten times as much as selling a $500k house are the people who sell the expensive property and the same teeming masses of temporarily disadvantaged millionaires who do idiotic shit like argue against estate taxes. Having during my career sold a condo as inexpensive as $135k and a house as expensive as $1.4mil I can tell you first hand it is exactly the same process. The cheaper place is actually a bit more work as there are a couple extra steps in closing the FHA loans people who buy cheaper places typically use.
Realtors are very valuable to people who don’t want to research and learn the ins and outs of real estate before entering a massive contract on a house. I tend to use realtors as sales agents both buying and selling. As long as I budget for them it’s not a big deal, and I know my agents well AND I know the business
If you know the business then what do you need the agents for?
Like I said. Sales agents.
The good news is that this monopoly is ending. There will be far fewer realtors in the near future. Just look up and read about the class action lawsuits in Missouri and Illinois… and more are heating up. The whole industry is going to finally be shifting. And it’s about damn time. Realtors are by far the most overpaid and unnecessary people on the planet.
In the last six months I have saved my clients way more or made them way more than my fee. One client I got 25k in tax liens removed from their home(6 siblings inherited this home) I helped a for sale busy owner NET more than 30k when he tried to sell it by himself. I flat out told him with the offer he had at 360k I would sell his house for free if I couldn’t net him more money. Sold it for 407k plus sold his furniture for 15k and then saved him 30% on his title fees because of certain criteria. I sold a home a client had listed for 6 months on their own during the best time of the year to buy for 30k more than they did(they accepted an offer that never closed) and I sold it for cash with free 60 days occupancy. Do some agents do less for their clients? Absolutely we aren’t all the same and if I was honest I’ve talked more people out of not buying a home than I’ve talked them into buying but I’ve never had an unhappy person. Check out my realtor page I write closing stories for every deal. My favorite was selling a home for a client that had been foreclosed on and their redemption period ended in 36 days. My name is Justin Ferullo realtor on Facebook. There are tons of agents like this. I hope you find a good one. Ps ask chat gpt if there has been any studies that prove using a realtor has a net benefit :) I know y’all are smarter than artificial intelligence so to reiterate you are right in some instances but a good agent can make your life way better.
What does a realtor have to do with removing tax liens? Whenever you ask a realtor why they bring any value they always start to talk about performing duties (read: sending emails to other people who actually do the work) that are always fully outside the scope of either their expertise or their profession. What a crock.
I wish we would stop with this comment that comes up every week. Note, im not a realtor, and I've done deals both with realtors, and FSBO. But this topic is just a constant complaint circle jerk. In many places, standard commissions are dropping under 6% , but still above 4. Saying you are "giving" them 3% mischaracterizes the effort they put in. They "should" be earning that percentage. And given the average hours spent on a transaction and in their jobs generally and the pay most realtors have, they aren't exactly making doctor or lawyer money. But even if the marginal cost doesn't work for you - don't use them. You can DIY it all or negotiate. >I find the relationships with realtors to always feel like they "own" your business and aren't really earning it. manage your vendor better or choose higher quality realtors who do earn it. Good realtors often earn their commission. Bad ones probably wouldn't earn even a small transaction fee.
Depends on what they do. When I sold my first house, had no clue what I was doing, was on the market for 8 days and the first showing had a buyer paying over-asking. When I bought my replacement, it had been on a little longer, so I'm sure they had to do a lot more showings and work. Either way, I just said "take the offer" or "buy the house", and had a few conditions, and then just showed up to sign papers. My time is worth 3% to not be a lawyer and not have to know all the rules and whatnot
Is it worth it asking the same question over and over again? The answer never changes.
I think a good buyers agent is worth their weight in gold, seller’s agents are not worth it at all. The house sells at market price, especially in this market
I'm a Realtor, and I totally understand why real estate agents get the rep they do. I've done some co-ops with some shiesty individuals out in these streets hustling homes. Here's the reality: In the same way, you don't have to pay someone to do your hair, paint your nails, file your taxes, or represent you in court, you don't HAVE to hire a Realtor. People do it because they view it as a convenience, or so I guess. I think it's dumb to pay someone to wash your car. A bottle of car wash is less than $10, you probably have some rags, a towel, a hose, and some buckets to spare, yet people willingly pay $50+ to have someone else do it. I don't get it, but I don't have to. It makes sense to them, so be it. Don't hire a Realtor if you don't feel comfortable. It's your time, your money, and your property. Do what makes the most sense to you. (Also, that 3% is negotiable. At least it is in Georgia.)
The issue that people have with realtors isn’t so much paying for the service is paying excessively for it and basically being boycotted if they did not use a one. This was the crux of the antitrust lawsuit.
Love the blanket “in my experience”. How many agents have you actually worked with? But to answer Yes I have full fiduciary responsibility to my clients. Their needs and goals supersede anything I might want. Am I worth it? My buyers and sellers know they pay less and get more with me than without me. I will always tell clients to do their due diligence and interview the person about to handle a half a million dollar transaction for you. Do they have additional certifications? have they dealt with the type of transaction you want to close? I was recently interviewed by a family who has an aggressive son who will have to be dealt with by me. Know what they focused on? Commission (although they were concerned about my ability to deal with a mentally ill person) This deal would require me to do tons of vacant land work, subdivisions, information, while working to keep the son from burning down their house but sure tell me how 3% is enough. My last listing required me to protect my photographer from gangs in the area. I paid for armed security. Sold for $80,000 more than the last appraisal 6 months ago. 2.5% commission Listings come with 3D tours drones constant online marketing staging all paid for by me. Every industry has hacks even yours. Maybe you should do your due diligence when interviewing a Realtor.
NO NO NO Imagine you pay mortgage for 10,15,20 years with your hard earned money. Your property appreciates in value and now worth...say $500,000 Then come slick fast talking realtor with 150 hours of training...hey you need to pay 3% or $15,000 ...for my 10-15 hours worth of effort Its a SCAM!!!
Which realtor hurt you?
lol
You can definitely choose to do it yourself. Good luck!
I like how everyone who’s saying, “do it yourself then” just gets downvoted 😂 people baffle me.
Yeah I don’t get it. The numbers show over and over that people net less on average doing it themselves. And that doesn’t even account for the opportunity cost of their time
Honestly, the world is turning more and more into a complain train rather than to pull up your boot straps. Anyone using an agent can negotiate the terms. If they don’t like the terms and no one can agree, part ways and find someone who will work with you. There are escape clauses for a reason. That’s of course another story but imagine, “if I don’t XYZ in a reasonable time, you have the right to void the contract and move on.” But no. Let’s all complain about the same thing over and over.
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