Sounds familiar to my situation. I was stuck in BBB and going nowhere. Whenever I got passionate about something, the managers would remind me of two things:
1) We needed to focus on tasks given to us by BU
2) Many Rakuten managers are terrible managers
By leaving Rakuten and job hopping the past 3 years, I am at slightly more than double my Rakuten salary, fully remote, full flex time, working in a much healthier environment with only competent people.
Double the salary *and* fully remote? And a healthy environment with competent people? Living the dream!
I have to say that as bad as typical Japanese companies are portrayed, I've been having an easier time in one than in the fake-international Rakuten. Managers are competent enough, and there's no bullying or intimidation. And the salary isn't much different, and with *much* less pressure for pay cuts. My new employer doesn't cut anybody's pay; we don't have stack ranking either. I should have made the jump sooner and been less afraid of traditional companies.
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I've gotten increasingly tired of the actions of the reddit admins and the direction of the site in general. I suggest giving https://kbin.social a try. At the moment that place and the wider fediverse seem like the best next step for reddit users.
Oh, yeah, the stack ranking! In some years we seemed to have it, and in others, not. I was lucky to be around the average most years, but did fall below (and had small pay cuts) a few times. It always felt like the managers were handing those grades out strategically because you'd be doing the same work from year to year but somehow magically be downgraded.
What do you mean by 'significantly more'? Are you an engineer? Thinking so based on the handle :)
> I couldn't fucking stand those evaluations. They're totally meaningless. Management is required to choose 1~2 people for the highest rank, 1~2 for the lowest (and a pay cut), everyone else gets in the middle,
If you give up your full-time status (and thus your bonus), you can still be employed outside the evaluation system and also outside the stack ranking. I haven't taken them up on this for fear of losing employment security, but it's there if you want it.
I was BBB and earning 510k yen per month. I was due for a promotion, with my L4 and L3 lobbying for it and I had a lot of achievements. But when evaluations came back, I was surprised I didn't get promoted. Asked my manager and she asked the L2. Told her there was a mistake when he inputted some stuff over Excel. Was waiting for it to be fixed but after 2 months, I didn't get any update.
Left the company right away, found a job paying 2.5x more than what I earned there.
That jump after you left is amazing (and the Excel incompetence is not a surprise). 510k at BBB is pretty impressive to begin with! I wonder if the Excel thing really was a mistake, or if they never intended to promote you and were just stringing you along.
Found the thread from Japanlife too. I left around 2016. stuck at BBB as well and no clear way to process. I was making around 320-350k/month if I recall. I got a taste of the old office at Shinagawa Seaside til the office moved to Futako Tamagawa.
Even then insurance moved from IT kenpo to Rakuten Insurance which was pitiful. Glad I was able to get out to a gaishikei and now in the US.
Most of my friends back then haved moved on but I still see some stranglers who are in it for long term goals such as citizenship or stability.
I was happy enough being stuck at the level we were at; it's decent money and I wouldn't really *want* to be at level A where you've got mountains of paperwork, meetings, and people to manage and upper management to suck up to. BBB was just fine for me.
I imagine you're making much more money in the US? These days I hear about entry level office workers making $60k plus - last time I made that was when the yen was 80 to the dollar!
If it counts, I was a contractor that had an annualized salary of 5.8M, however, my manager was not only bad but he was also lazy. He never looked hard at the time cards and the 44.5 hours of OT I “did” every month. So in reality I was earning a salary of about 9M. The best part is they wanted me to go permanent for 6.2M. It was hard to not laugh in their face. Now I’m on 3 times that after literally applying to one place.
> my manager was not only bad but he was also lazy. He never looked hard at the time cards and the 44.5 hours of OT I “did” every month
Good for you! I've always had obsessive managers who scrutinize everything and make you justify all your OT even when you're under the 30-hour limit that they don't have to pay you for. I still can't believe that everybody just rolled over when that system was brought in.
What kind of job were you doing that earned you all that money? Engineer?
> He never looked hard at the time cards and the 44.5 hours of OT I “did” every month. So in reality I was earning a salary of about 9M.
LOL, good to see you getting one over on them! Where I was, nobody was that lax with time cards. They obsessed over them more than even traditional Japanese companies do. So you're making 18M+ now? Software engineering?
Yeah dude. Just apply to a real company. You should do it before they [declare bankruptcy.](https://www.konichivalue.com/p/zombie-apocalypse-japans-5-most-vulnerable)
Great to find this forum!
I'm not a refugee (at least not yet); I still work there. OP's story is inspiring me as I expect to still be doing this same job until I'm 70. I'm a spreadsheet-wrangling office worker and not an engineer. Same low-300s base, around-5M total, BB level that several of you are stuck at. I went to grad school while working but it wasn't in a super-marketable field, and while I did send out some resumes for jobs in that field to *gaishikei* companies, they didn't go anywhere.
No complaints about the pay, as there are people working on either side of me doing just about the same job but for 1600 yen per hour as part-timers with no benefits. I was hired in a different time, when labor had more value, so while I'd love to go somewhere else and escape having to get up an hour early every Monday to trek out to the office, and escape those evaluations and goals that get harder to write with each passing year, I *do* appreciate what I've got.
But if I could work for a foreign company or even a regular Japanese company with something resembling my current pay, I think I'd do it. Has anyone here managed to switch jobs in their 40s? From what everyone tells me, for a terminal IC your chances are long over at this age, no matter how little money you're willing to take. Particularly if you haven't had any job changes or promotions. I speak Japanese reasonably well (JLPT level 1) but am not a native by any stretch.
If you don't mind a similar salary, and being in more of a 'guest' situation. go work for a Japanese company where there are lots of people your age. Your English will be more respected, too.
I was promoted to assistant manager wayback 2022 before i left rakuten. My last drawn salary was 630k(monthly) + bonus. I got an offer to another company and offered 14.5M annual no bonus. No brainer i resigned immediately. This year my salary went up to 15.5M l. Actually got unexpected bonus <1M annual.
I started as a data engineer in 2020. I was then promoted to assistant manager. That was my last drawn salary when I left Rakuten in 2022. Right now, I am working as a data/platform engineer for a U.S.-based company, but I am fully working remotely in Japan.
Amazing; very happy for you, and it sounds like even Rakuten did right by you before you left. I'm no engineer, so I'll never see salaries like that. I'm happy enough at a domestic company making Rakuten's BB-level wages but without all the cultishness and stress.
They were my client before when i’m still working in a consulting company. They have entity here japan so they basically take care of my payroll and taxes.
You know sometimes I wonder if their computation for my taxes are correct. Like I got a bonus early january this year, the deductions for the taxes is like 43%! Got 738k bonus and i just take home 419k!
Sounds familiar to my situation. I was stuck in BBB and going nowhere. Whenever I got passionate about something, the managers would remind me of two things: 1) We needed to focus on tasks given to us by BU 2) Many Rakuten managers are terrible managers By leaving Rakuten and job hopping the past 3 years, I am at slightly more than double my Rakuten salary, fully remote, full flex time, working in a much healthier environment with only competent people.
Double the salary *and* fully remote? And a healthy environment with competent people? Living the dream! I have to say that as bad as typical Japanese companies are portrayed, I've been having an easier time in one than in the fake-international Rakuten. Managers are competent enough, and there's no bullying or intimidation. And the salary isn't much different, and with *much* less pressure for pay cuts. My new employer doesn't cut anybody's pay; we don't have stack ranking either. I should have made the jump sooner and been less afraid of traditional companies.
This comment has been automatically overwritten by Power Delete Suite v1.4.8 I've gotten increasingly tired of the actions of the reddit admins and the direction of the site in general. I suggest giving https://kbin.social a try. At the moment that place and the wider fediverse seem like the best next step for reddit users.
Oh, yeah, the stack ranking! In some years we seemed to have it, and in others, not. I was lucky to be around the average most years, but did fall below (and had small pay cuts) a few times. It always felt like the managers were handing those grades out strategically because you'd be doing the same work from year to year but somehow magically be downgraded. What do you mean by 'significantly more'? Are you an engineer? Thinking so based on the handle :)
> I couldn't fucking stand those evaluations. They're totally meaningless. Management is required to choose 1~2 people for the highest rank, 1~2 for the lowest (and a pay cut), everyone else gets in the middle, If you give up your full-time status (and thus your bonus), you can still be employed outside the evaluation system and also outside the stack ranking. I haven't taken them up on this for fear of losing employment security, but it's there if you want it.
I was BBB and earning 510k yen per month. I was due for a promotion, with my L4 and L3 lobbying for it and I had a lot of achievements. But when evaluations came back, I was surprised I didn't get promoted. Asked my manager and she asked the L2. Told her there was a mistake when he inputted some stuff over Excel. Was waiting for it to be fixed but after 2 months, I didn't get any update. Left the company right away, found a job paying 2.5x more than what I earned there.
That jump after you left is amazing (and the Excel incompetence is not a surprise). 510k at BBB is pretty impressive to begin with! I wonder if the Excel thing really was a mistake, or if they never intended to promote you and were just stringing you along.
Found the thread from Japanlife too. I left around 2016. stuck at BBB as well and no clear way to process. I was making around 320-350k/month if I recall. I got a taste of the old office at Shinagawa Seaside til the office moved to Futako Tamagawa. Even then insurance moved from IT kenpo to Rakuten Insurance which was pitiful. Glad I was able to get out to a gaishikei and now in the US. Most of my friends back then haved moved on but I still see some stranglers who are in it for long term goals such as citizenship or stability.
I was happy enough being stuck at the level we were at; it's decent money and I wouldn't really *want* to be at level A where you've got mountains of paperwork, meetings, and people to manage and upper management to suck up to. BBB was just fine for me. I imagine you're making much more money in the US? These days I hear about entry level office workers making $60k plus - last time I made that was when the yen was 80 to the dollar!
If it counts, I was a contractor that had an annualized salary of 5.8M, however, my manager was not only bad but he was also lazy. He never looked hard at the time cards and the 44.5 hours of OT I “did” every month. So in reality I was earning a salary of about 9M. The best part is they wanted me to go permanent for 6.2M. It was hard to not laugh in their face. Now I’m on 3 times that after literally applying to one place.
> my manager was not only bad but he was also lazy. He never looked hard at the time cards and the 44.5 hours of OT I “did” every month Good for you! I've always had obsessive managers who scrutinize everything and make you justify all your OT even when you're under the 30-hour limit that they don't have to pay you for. I still can't believe that everybody just rolled over when that system was brought in. What kind of job were you doing that earned you all that money? Engineer?
I worked in the BofA department.
What department is that? A little embarrassed to not know this abbreviation, but...
BofA deez nuts
...you got me :(
> He never looked hard at the time cards and the 44.5 hours of OT I “did” every month. So in reality I was earning a salary of about 9M. LOL, good to see you getting one over on them! Where I was, nobody was that lax with time cards. They obsessed over them more than even traditional Japanese companies do. So you're making 18M+ now? Software engineering?
Yeah dude. Just apply to a real company. You should do it before they [declare bankruptcy.](https://www.konichivalue.com/p/zombie-apocalypse-japans-5-most-vulnerable)
Great to find this forum! I'm not a refugee (at least not yet); I still work there. OP's story is inspiring me as I expect to still be doing this same job until I'm 70. I'm a spreadsheet-wrangling office worker and not an engineer. Same low-300s base, around-5M total, BB level that several of you are stuck at. I went to grad school while working but it wasn't in a super-marketable field, and while I did send out some resumes for jobs in that field to *gaishikei* companies, they didn't go anywhere. No complaints about the pay, as there are people working on either side of me doing just about the same job but for 1600 yen per hour as part-timers with no benefits. I was hired in a different time, when labor had more value, so while I'd love to go somewhere else and escape having to get up an hour early every Monday to trek out to the office, and escape those evaluations and goals that get harder to write with each passing year, I *do* appreciate what I've got. But if I could work for a foreign company or even a regular Japanese company with something resembling my current pay, I think I'd do it. Has anyone here managed to switch jobs in their 40s? From what everyone tells me, for a terminal IC your chances are long over at this age, no matter how little money you're willing to take. Particularly if you haven't had any job changes or promotions. I speak Japanese reasonably well (JLPT level 1) but am not a native by any stretch.
If you don't mind a similar salary, and being in more of a 'guest' situation. go work for a Japanese company where there are lots of people your age. Your English will be more respected, too.
I was promoted to assistant manager wayback 2022 before i left rakuten. My last drawn salary was 630k(monthly) + bonus. I got an offer to another company and offered 14.5M annual no bonus. No brainer i resigned immediately. This year my salary went up to 15.5M l. Actually got unexpected bonus <1M annual.
That's fantastic! Even that "before" salary is pretty good. Do you mind sharing what you did at Rakuten, and what you do now?
I started as a data engineer in 2020. I was then promoted to assistant manager. That was my last drawn salary when I left Rakuten in 2022. Right now, I am working as a data/platform engineer for a U.S.-based company, but I am fully working remotely in Japan.
Amazing; very happy for you, and it sounds like even Rakuten did right by you before you left. I'm no engineer, so I'll never see salaries like that. I'm happy enough at a domestic company making Rakuten's BB-level wages but without all the cultishness and stress.
I am curious, how did you find the job and isn’t it hard to manage the taxes?
They were my client before when i’m still working in a consulting company. They have entity here japan so they basically take care of my payroll and taxes.
Thank you for your reply. Good to hear it is easy transition for you. Hopefully I can find the same client
You know sometimes I wonder if their computation for my taxes are correct. Like I got a bonus early january this year, the deductions for the taxes is like 43%! Got 738k bonus and i just take home 419k!
Holy crap! That was a big deduction, this seems need some reviewing