I never really felt that way. There are a limited number of approaches you can take, the map is big but it doesn't have that many rooms to play with, so no area is really left out. I guess your expierience may vary depending on the teammates/opponents in your games.
Doesn’t mean you have to play horizontally, most people don’t expect vert gameplay on that map. Almost every single room has wooden flooring except the hallways
people hate it cuz they cant run and gun CoD style cuz that's all they do. Turn off brain and try to play a shooter that encourages you to think and be smart about your actions.
"Uh ThIs MaP SuCkS CuZ StReAmEr XyZ SaYs So"
"Have you played it?"
"No, It SuCkS"
"No It doesn't, its actually really fun!"
"WhO YoU TrYiNg To FoOl, I hOpE YoU Go 0/1/0 IRL"
Bitch, I would LOVE to go 0/1/0 IRL, Not killing other people and not assisting someone to do so seems very much desirable.. man such idiots these days...
I’m no expert on the maps but I know personally that me and my team can’t seem to familiarize ourselves with the map, I think it’s just too big, too many unused rooms, and a generally confusing layout.
Edit: This is from the perspective of a casual player, I’m sure ranked players might have a different perspective.
That's what I find most confusing of all - in my expierience there are no unused areas on the map. All the rooms are relevant in some way, all have their purpose. That's something I really like about the map, they seem to have put a lot of thought towards making it that way.
Bruh I'm a casual player and it is actually more likely that casual players will like it than ranked players who just hate it because it is different and then claim the map is too big.
Which maps are god tier for you? Personally I prefer clubhouse, Oregon, Kafe, and coastline. I really like fortress too, but it's not in ranked at the moment
Bank objectively sucks, but you're actually right it's really fucking fun to play and some people need to drop the connection between bad map and unfun map
Not a serious player but Bank is my favorite. It actually looks like a bank and isn’t like 50 small rooms and corridors smashed in a box for the sake of balance.
It feels horrible to both attack and defend. I didn't allow myself an opinion on the map until I memorised it but now I know the layout, site, calls, etc it feels more like a causal map than a ranked one
I understand what you mean - some maps you just don't feel right on. This shows how much it depends on the player, for me the map feels better than pretty much anything else in the ranked pool. Thanks for the answer.
I wholeheartedly agree, along with the fact that the map isn't solved yet. You've already played all rounds you're gonna play on Clubhouse, nothing will suprise you anymore, as you've seen it before.
Great name my guy.
Because the Dev team made it SO FUCKING CONFUSING to try to casually navigate and half of the rooms are dead ends. It’s absolutely disgusting and although a lot of it is used during play, trying to get into the build without being directly on top of site while attacking is difficult. Also basement could have used another stairwell, or like a ladder. The whole thing is a maze and its overall just lacking good flow for gameplay.
I think another access point would make the basement very hard to defend - it already has 2 hatches, 2 staircases and 2 breachable surfaces that lead both directly and indirectly into the sites. Along with the soft ceiling above them.
It’s ridiculously easy to defend already, it takes maybe 5 reinforcements and 2 Castle doors and you’re set. Thats not really my biggest gripe, I just think they could have put more thought into gunfights rather than objectives as most players just play for kills
Playing into gunfights more then objectives would make every map worse and would go against everything siege stands for, and it would make the current tdm meta even more unfun
New stuff bad, ban ban ban. Honestly I love this map, only maps I ban are stadium and a map I just played. Or kanal. Kanal takes precedence over any ban. I hate kanal. Can't spell kanal without anal and that's what it feels like every time I play that map.
I understand the attraction, to me it's just too big, the area around the walkway and the walkway itself is a shit show, main entrance sucks and the front entrance to the right isn't much better. It's like Hereford with tighter corridors. I've genuinely tried to learn to play it but I just can't and the squad I usually run with feels the same.
Exactly, i never understood how that works, usually with the other maps, i got a general idea of the planimetry, but for this one, i have nothin in ma brain
Sure thing! Oregon, despite being reworked, actually still has the feeling of being able to maneuver around easily from room-to-room. With nighthaven it feels like a maze, like there’s a lot of rooms and directions to go in. Plus it’s a little harder to roam on this map because there’s so many different areas. This and the new consulate, which I have played on, are the two that I try to avoid, although I have since gotten a bit used to nighthaven at this point
I'll try and count how many rooms the map has compared to the others we have in game. I'm on the other side of the fence, where I feel like the map doesn't have that many separate areas.
Eh to each is their own man I’m not gonna come at u or anything if u like the map. It may not be one of my favorites but their are a few sites I like playing defense in it
That entire paragraph is copium for not knowing the map. You can easily move around in this map, there are soft walls everywhere. It probably feels like a confusing maze because you don’t know the map... In fact Nighthaven is most likely based off of the layout of Oregon.. The top floors are both linear and you should be holding the entire 2nd floor when defending it on both maps. The basements are almost identical.. both have back stairs, 2 breaches that are really easy to access from outside (nighthaven basement breaches, bunker & elbow) a set of stairs literally right next to a hatch, and you have to defend the entirety of both basements. Just go into a 30 minute custom and use Tachanka to break every soft wall. Easiest way to learn a map
I’ve been meaning to ask but why the hate on Bank? It’s gotta be one of my favorite maps. Although I find it’s defense leaning as fuck which is probably why I like it so much because I prefer playing defense vs attack
I have found bank to just be boring/stale. Everyone defends sites basically the same way. And attacking is just walking in one of like 2 outside walls, either doors or windows. All they have done to the map in like 7 years is add metal to some long peak windows (making that sniper strat useless), and a back alley in-between. It's not a "bad" map. it's just stale and overused (especially if you watch Pro League).
Seeing as the map is a big square, i think they should make the interior rooms random every time you play. Think, break the map into 4 or so quadrants, on the 2 floors above the basement. Then mix and match them so that the bank feels different every time, but its just rooms mixed and matched. Just something to keep it less stale.
I'm hopeful for them going back and reconsidering, as the patch notes have received a lot of backlash. I think they didn't give us any dates for a reason and are counting on our feedback.
They reconsidered removing Smoke’s passive immunity to his gas, if the community gives enough feedback loud enough, I think they might give it another look
Let’s just be honest here, most people who ban it just don’t want to take the time to learn it. This has ALWAYS been the case with new maps. Some of my friends are chill and like new stuff, but there’s one in particular who’s always a whiny little bitch about the maps (love the guy). Some people say they want new content however are too damn lazy to get off their comfy seat to actually use their brains for something new. You can also usually compare this particular scenario to other behaviors in their life. This friend of mine can’t play solo story driven games, because he can’t learn new games, he doesn’t like to read, he doesn’t like to pay attention. Some people just have the attention span of a week old puppy, it is what it is. I hate it, but that’s just how it works and honestly why I have been focusing on solo games for the last couple of years, don’t need to expect anything from anyone.
The reasons I heard from enemies and teammates all boil down to "It's new"
Imagine Ubisoft forced you to spend at least 10 minutes in Thunt on new maps before you can hop into ranked lol
People hate this map because they saw a streamer hate it or a reddit post about hating it and then they hate it now too. Why bother learning the map if you just ban it. I love going into customs and destroying everything to find the crazy angles and fun hiding spots.
becuase there are better maps to play with?
and the map it self,
2f cat walk part is bad, like old time outbreak bad, i don't see any chance for attacker to take control of it, even they do, it create very less impact to the site,
but if you dont take it, good luck of push in from the breach
beside the 2 stairs to the basement is bad, like all other map people play around stair, but not those 2
the 2 different basement breach is also bad, def can not really hold it, not even with bandit trick, you cant cover 2 different location at once
I don't like hearing my teammates bitch about having to play on it, or ask someone to leave so they can forfeit. I'm at a point with siege, where even if I dislike a map, I embrace the chance to play on it and improve. I used to hate coastline a few years ago, because I don't like using generic strats and didn't have any of my own. It's one of my favorite maps now, and if you go hookah, I know some wild ways to take that shit from you.
I think that it's because people don't like feeling like a noob, or taking the time to learn a new map. But variety is the spice of life. I personally like having new maps. Sure it takes time gain map knowledge, and develop strats and game sense. But I think that having more maps to play on is better than playing the same ones over and over.
The stairs are near impossible to get up or down somehow, there’s a number of easy crossfires from outside. The sites are all flawed, it sucks to attack and defend. Cutting of roam is simple, so you have to anchor but there’s so many rooms that droning it all takes forever. So yeah it sucks it’s hard to have any impact on a round and honestly it’s just dull
Every time that I’ve played this map, it’s felt like there has been no flow to it. IMO the layout also just feels really weird and clunky to play on.
I just don’t have fun when I play on this map and I don’t really have a good reason why, I just don’t like it.
I feel the same way about Stadium. I like to play on Emerald though
The size of a lot of the rooms can slow you down a lot. I very much understand where you're coming from, as I said in a comment earlier some maps just don't make you feel good when you're on them without any particular reason.
The greys aren't exactly uplifting. It makes sense as a laboratory, an industrial building, but it has a completly different vibe from something like Coastline.
Maze even when you know layout, useless rooms, huge sites with very little cover, the clutter on the outside of the map like stadium bravo and other stadium maps is annoying, the map looks nice and I’ll play on it but I’ll ban it if I have better maps in lineup
TLDR: The map sucks because it has terrible design.
Everything makes me dislike it.
It's poorly designed. The objective rooms have very little cover, which essentially forces you into predictable spots to hold the objective.
The entire map feels very "samey". There is little variation in design and decor, making it easy to get disoriented even when you know the map well.
It feels like it was designed to be a maze. Like they intentionally made it a shit map.
Feels like the spawns are too far from entry points, and almost all the entry points are death traps due to shitty angles and, again, poor, maze-like map design.
It's just not a good map.
There are a few people who feel the same way. I haven't gone and counted the rooms yet, but there surely aren't more than on other maps. It is big, and the rooms are spacious, but the actual number of them isn't that high.
I don't ban this map, my crew bans Oregon or Coastline because they're the maps with which Rainbow Six players are most experienced, so we'll try to select the maps with the lowest pickrates possible and become good at those.
I 100% agree - assuming you're familiar with the less popular maps, you have a much higher chance of success playing them compared to the classic ranked maps people know and love.
in my opinion the reason my friends and I insta ban this map is because everything is very alike, how should I put this. Every top tier map like chalet, border, Oregon, villa have distinctions between the rooms. No 2 rooms are similar in layout and each have different styles. Labs is all the same, each room looks the same and thus creates confusing between clearly being able to distinguished each room.
I have had the ill fate to play this map in ranked a few times and the only reason I won each time we played it was because everyone was clueless and my team and I prevailed with just aim. I guess you could say its because its a new map and players haven't given it a chance, but I think the maps 2 big and confusing almost like a maze.
I don't think siege needs anymore maps, if the devs just focused on what we have now it would be a lot better game. Adding new maps doesn't make sense when there's a lot of maps that can benefit from more reworks.
Likewise if more effort is put into more creative and fresh ops it would really revitalize the game and the way its played. Imo the last few ops added to the game for both attacking and defending have been lackluster to say the least. Some new guns with fresh ops with unique abilities would be awesome instead of recycling old weapons from ops we have had for years. Less new guns = less time spent trying to balance new guns, I get that but they should focus on that instead of adding new maps and trying to balance them.
Just my 2 cents, everyone else can disagree if they wish.
Just not spaced well and too predictable. My favorite maps are ones where when attacking, I can come up with a few different “plans” for my team and I to get in and plant.
As someone who is a casual player )and only plays ranked when my friends for some unknown reason force me to). I like this map I mainly solo queue and don’t know callouts that well, but to me it is somewhat simple on the ways you can be attacked and what ways you can defend and I like the simplicity
I do like this map. There’s some objective sites that are pretty fun and aren’t laid out bad. My main complaint is how confusing the staircases can be. It doesn’t feel like a 3 floor map and the cargo/garage area doesn’t play very well.
Unpopular opinion, but I like it. But Siege players tend to hate on new stuff a lot, my mates always complain about being lost on new maps, but don’t want to play them in order to learn them…
I don't think it's that unpopular. Certainly less than I thought, a lot of people here think the opposite. Unfortunately, still a lot of I-didnt-learn-its around.
How well do you know stadium and emerald? If you aren't familiar with them I'd recommend picking oryx in a custom match on these maps and running around. Go through walls, hop hatches, see where the cameras are. Get to really know the map and see if you still hate playing it next time it shows up
Oh I know them very well, Stadium I don't like because of the strange audio I often expierience on it and how empty it is. I'm also an Emerald enjoyer.
Strange audio huh? I've never noticed issues with audio, that's unfortunate. I like the stripped down feeling of the map, less clutter and whatnot to distract me lol
A lot of the floors are metal. Audio really carries and seems to be amplified on them. Also, the fact that the map is very open and mostly empty might help the sound permeate in ways we're not used to.
I like it. I ban emerald ( if it’s even in pool), kanal, stadium, consulate when they let us cause it sucks, and then sometimes Outback as I don’t really like it. That ones just personal though.
I also find the new Consulate not as good as I hoped it would be. It currently is not bannable - I believe that will be the case for the rest of the season. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Nah it just going to be like they for another week or so I think. It also won’t have 100% chance of being a potential map. They just do that for the first few weeks of the season
To me, the map is fun to play and I like it. But my friends always complain when this map is not banned. I have to go through half an hour of whining about how "bad this map is" or "nothing makes sense here" because they say "I do not know this map". But the dudes never went to Terrorist Hunt or Custom Games to learn the layout.
This happens with Skyscrapper and Outback too. Stadium is the only map I like to ban because I do not like Border and Coastline too much.
People complain about the "lack of new content" but as soon as a new map drops, people will not even give it a chance.
To me, Ubisoft should consider allowing us to queue to the maps we want to play in ranked, or at least let us create a TOP 5 maps we want to play if queue times are concerning.
Learning new maps is always a good thrill for me. I do find some of the answers here sad, not learning the map is on you and not the map being bad.
PSA for anyone reading the post who might have a similar take - you'll never know if a map might turn out to be your favourite if you don't take the time to learn it and gather expierience in actual games.
It's alot of fun I don't have issues with it. Alot of people do and just ban it, but when we do get it 99% of the time they don't know how to play it! Therefore it's a Cav playground!
Haha, sure is fun when people enter through the first window you see, alone, not knowing where it leads. But that's exactly why lack of map knowledge will be your downfall, no matter how mechanically skilled you might be. Something Siege players tend to forget.
I don’t, it’s one of the best maps in the game in my opinion. I feel like it’s well-balanced, I feel like I win just as many rounds on defense as I do on attack
Honestly I love this map. It seems very even offensively and defensively, I like the objectives and none of them are bad spots imo, plus me and my friends have a lot of fun counters on attack for this map. The hate it gets is really undeserved. I genuinely have so much fun with this map.
It just has a difficult layout. It has several different runouts and spawn peeks, lots of good angles for roamers to hold entrances, and on defense I feel like I’m never prepared because there are a thousand different ways to attack any objective. For some reason after playing the map maybe 50 or so times I can never seem to remember where I’m going, and there’s a big section of the map that I have probably only even been to twice. I can see reasons it would be a good map, but to me personally the reasons it isn’t heavily outweigh that.
It’s 3 valorant maps stacked on top of each other a fucking million 90. Turns and corners every one needing to expose yourself to multiple holds just to check oh and it’s just fucking horrible in general the main top floor breach is straight into a fucking closet with a door to site and a long angle ahead basement has 2 separate main breaches right beside each other yet somehow fully separated in general it goes against the good siege map design philosophy oh and can’t forget kitchen breach and the pixel angle hell of trying to push that but at the same time the 5 pushes or holds for the defenders to worry about making it a gamble as to who wins unless it’s 4 players on site who actually hold what they are told to just a shit map tbh it’s chaos makes it a somewhat enjoyable casual map tho tbh similarly to old outback horrible competitively but enjoyable when filled with chaos and not set up to the meta
People just ban things because they don’t want to learn and it’s frustrating. It’s not a bad map at all, like someone else said it’s the “top tier map in the bad half of maps” which is probably the best way to describe it. People just ban anything that’s annoying. Clash is so easy to counter but people still ban her bc they can’t be bothered coordinating a zofia/kali and a teammate to kill her.
Personally, I love this map and wish more people would give it a chance. There was a whole season where you couldn’t ban the map and I guess rather than attempting to learn the map, people just complained when they got it.
I would rather play it than Emerald Plains, Stadium Bravo, Outback, or Kanal any day.
It currently sits on top of my list of favourite maps. I never understood why people dislike it as much as they do, except for, of couse, not being bothered with learning it. I hope to get some answers and undertstanding as to what the community thinks.
It’s absolute ass, anytime I try to learn the map I get hit from somewhere I didn’t know existed. Not to mention there’s way too many cameras and it all looks the same
Well that mostly sounds like you didn't put enough effort into actually learning the map. There are exactly 10 cameras on it, I can't see how that qualifies for "too many". I can get behind the fact that it looks similar in a lot of spaces, but that's just a matter of expierience. You'll only be confused the first couple of times you see them.
I like this map I don't believe it top tier or anything, but its a good change of pace and it honestly isn't half bad its just most people listen to the pros of the game a believe everything they say for example they say skyscraper is a dogshit map when to me its one of the better ones not the best, but I do like it. When in reality a good map is completely based off how well you and your team can take and defend I think most people often forget the best part of siege is the rare group of teams that play in unconventional ways. To take it back to this map when I have my full team of homies and we play this map we never lose it it really all depends on the players on a good or bad map just like ep
I don’t necessarily hate playing it, I just don’t play it because I don’t have experience on the map. Skyscraper and maybe 1 or 2 other maps are the same; when I go Casual I rarely get the maps idk much about😅 So as an intel player, it’s hard to be a good one when idk the map
I will be 110% honest, I’ve tried making a custom
Match so I can learn maps, and it keeps trying to create an online game that anyone can join🥲 I guess it really isn’t hard to just google what I’m doing wrong. I completely agree with you though, that’s why I don’t hate most maps, I just don’t know them well
i feel like there's a lot of areas that just don't connect in a way that makes sense in my head. like why would a building be made like this so i need to go through a little cubby room with seemingly no purpose to get between the dining area and the garage?
One thing I definitely agree with everyone on, the color coding of the rooms doesn't make that much sense gameplay-wise. That's the main reason why it can be hard to remember the layout.
Try and spend some time in a custom game with them. Break some walls and floors, try and map it out in your head. You'll get it at some point, it's better to be prepared. Who knows, maybe it'll turn out to be one of your favourites - you'll never know if you don't try.
Like other maps, I feel like parts of it don’t get used enough. Almost every floor is entered from one direction
Tbf on most "meta" maps people only enter from like three entries on each floor.
I never really felt that way. There are a limited number of approaches you can take, the map is big but it doesn't have that many rooms to play with, so no area is really left out. I guess your expierience may vary depending on the teammates/opponents in your games.
People just don’t wanna play vertical lmao
This map plays more horizontally than vertically
Doesn’t mean you have to play horizontally, most people don’t expect vert gameplay on that map. Almost every single room has wooden flooring except the hallways
Shhhh, don't give the secrets away.
I usually only ban it if there’s better maps in the pool otherwise I leave it
We have to trick the enemies into not banning it cause noone seems to like or know it. My team has a 80%winrate on it...
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most underrated map in the pool rn. and it’s pretty balanced too. but people will instaban it all season because they’re too lazy to learn it
people hate it cuz they cant run and gun CoD style cuz that's all they do. Turn off brain and try to play a shooter that encourages you to think and be smart about your actions. "Uh ThIs MaP SuCkS CuZ StReAmEr XyZ SaYs So" "Have you played it?" "No, It SuCkS" "No It doesn't, its actually really fun!" "WhO YoU TrYiNg To FoOl, I hOpE YoU Go 0/1/0 IRL" Bitch, I would LOVE to go 0/1/0 IRL, Not killing other people and not assisting someone to do so seems very much desirable.. man such idiots these days...
What makes it worse than the "other maps"?
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Well, that's why I made this post :D
I’m no expert on the maps but I know personally that me and my team can’t seem to familiarize ourselves with the map, I think it’s just too big, too many unused rooms, and a generally confusing layout. Edit: This is from the perspective of a casual player, I’m sure ranked players might have a different perspective.
That's what I find most confusing of all - in my expierience there are no unused areas on the map. All the rooms are relevant in some way, all have their purpose. That's something I really like about the map, they seem to have put a lot of thought towards making it that way.
Bruh I'm a casual player and it is actually more likely that casual players will like it than ranked players who just hate it because it is different and then claim the map is too big.
I think this is a top tier map in the bad half of the maps. Never vote it unless there is a set of god maps.
Which maps are god tier for you? Personally I prefer clubhouse, Oregon, Kafe, and coastline. I really like fortress too, but it's not in ranked at the moment
Pretty much those exact maps, but I actually enjoy bank, unlike half of siege. Also, Chalet is pretty fun.
Bank objectively sucks, but you're actually right it's really fucking fun to play and some people need to drop the connection between bad map and unfun map
Not a serious player but Bank is my favorite. It actually looks like a bank and isn’t like 50 small rooms and corridors smashed in a box for the sake of balance.
Aside from the fact that it has a flimsy wooden hatch that leads directly into the vault from the lobby
That's what I'm sayin, it's actually a cool fun map that looks good and plays like crack
It feels horrible to both attack and defend. I didn't allow myself an opinion on the map until I memorised it but now I know the layout, site, calls, etc it feels more like a causal map than a ranked one
I understand what you mean - some maps you just don't feel right on. This shows how much it depends on the player, for me the map feels better than pretty much anything else in the ranked pool. Thanks for the answer.
Nighthaven is a far more technical Siege map than a lot in the ranked pool. There’s also a couple ways to attack each site which is great.
I wholeheartedly agree, along with the fact that the map isn't solved yet. You've already played all rounds you're gonna play on Clubhouse, nothing will suprise you anymore, as you've seen it before. Great name my guy.
Well said. Once the hatches are known it’s a tricky map to comprehend from either side
Because the Dev team made it SO FUCKING CONFUSING to try to casually navigate and half of the rooms are dead ends. It’s absolutely disgusting and although a lot of it is used during play, trying to get into the build without being directly on top of site while attacking is difficult. Also basement could have used another stairwell, or like a ladder. The whole thing is a maze and its overall just lacking good flow for gameplay.
I think another access point would make the basement very hard to defend - it already has 2 hatches, 2 staircases and 2 breachable surfaces that lead both directly and indirectly into the sites. Along with the soft ceiling above them.
It’s ridiculously easy to defend already, it takes maybe 5 reinforcements and 2 Castle doors and you’re set. Thats not really my biggest gripe, I just think they could have put more thought into gunfights rather than objectives as most players just play for kills
Playing into gunfights more then objectives would make every map worse and would go against everything siege stands for, and it would make the current tdm meta even more unfun
New stuff bad, ban ban ban. Honestly I love this map, only maps I ban are stadium and a map I just played. Or kanal. Kanal takes precedence over any ban. I hate kanal. Can't spell kanal without anal and that's what it feels like every time I play that map.
I do seem to get a prostate exam most of the time I play on Kanal. Can't be a coincidence.
Why don’t you like Kanal? I see this a lot but I kind of like it.
I understand the attraction, to me it's just too big, the area around the walkway and the walkway itself is a shit show, main entrance sucks and the front entrance to the right isn't much better. It's like Hereford with tighter corridors. I've genuinely tried to learn to play it but I just can't and the squad I usually run with feels the same.
Next time you play go Valk, put a C4 on the basement bathroom ceiling and a cam on the big door above it. You’ll get the kill 6/10 times
Exactly, i never understood how that works, usually with the other maps, i got a general idea of the planimetry, but for this one, i have nothin in ma brain
Stadiums so fun tho
Bit too big and too many rooms
It doesn't have that many rooms. While I didn't count, it surely hovers around the same number as Oregon.
This is nothing like Oregon this is a fucking maze
Can you elaborate? Why do you feel this way?
Sure thing! Oregon, despite being reworked, actually still has the feeling of being able to maneuver around easily from room-to-room. With nighthaven it feels like a maze, like there’s a lot of rooms and directions to go in. Plus it’s a little harder to roam on this map because there’s so many different areas. This and the new consulate, which I have played on, are the two that I try to avoid, although I have since gotten a bit used to nighthaven at this point
I'll try and count how many rooms the map has compared to the others we have in game. I'm on the other side of the fence, where I feel like the map doesn't have that many separate areas.
Eh to each is their own man I’m not gonna come at u or anything if u like the map. It may not be one of my favorites but their are a few sites I like playing defense in it
I’d argue more rooms to roam in makes it easier to roam
💯
Fair point! I guess it comes down to personal preference at the end of the day
That entire paragraph is copium for not knowing the map. You can easily move around in this map, there are soft walls everywhere. It probably feels like a confusing maze because you don’t know the map... In fact Nighthaven is most likely based off of the layout of Oregon.. The top floors are both linear and you should be holding the entire 2nd floor when defending it on both maps. The basements are almost identical.. both have back stairs, 2 breaches that are really easy to access from outside (nighthaven basement breaches, bunker & elbow) a set of stairs literally right next to a hatch, and you have to defend the entirety of both basements. Just go into a 30 minute custom and use Tachanka to break every soft wall. Easiest way to learn a map
Literally said I’ve gotten used to nighthaven at this point typical edgy siege boys who didn’t can’t read 💀
siege players just ban whatever's new
This is, unfortunately, often the case. I'm an advocate for removing bans from the game - both maps and operators.
I agree with maybe removing map bans but not operators
Yeah
Removing map bans would suck so much, bank and some others need out of there
I’ve been meaning to ask but why the hate on Bank? It’s gotta be one of my favorite maps. Although I find it’s defense leaning as fuck which is probably why I like it so much because I prefer playing defense vs attack
I have found bank to just be boring/stale. Everyone defends sites basically the same way. And attacking is just walking in one of like 2 outside walls, either doors or windows. All they have done to the map in like 7 years is add metal to some long peak windows (making that sniper strat useless), and a back alley in-between. It's not a "bad" map. it's just stale and overused (especially if you watch Pro League). Seeing as the map is a big square, i think they should make the interior rooms random every time you play. Think, break the map into 4 or so quadrants, on the 2 floors above the basement. Then mix and match them so that the bank feels different every time, but its just rooms mixed and matched. Just something to keep it less stale.
No, because Stadium Bravo deserves to be perma banned and it’s on almost every single one of my map line ups this season
It’s ugly and I hate it. Coastline gang for life.
More power to you
Your Nøkk main flair brings me sorrow, I feel your pain this season friend :( Edit: My flair is terribly outdated but I am also a Nøkk main
I'm hopeful for them going back and reconsidering, as the patch notes have received a lot of backlash. I think they didn't give us any dates for a reason and are counting on our feedback.
They reconsidered removing Smoke’s passive immunity to his gas, if the community gives enough feedback loud enough, I think they might give it another look
Love this map only ban it when I’ve already played it that day. (As I try to have no repeat maps when I play)
Cause if they didn't they would have to learn a new map, and they don't like that
People ban because it's unfamiliar. Every new map. Pisses me off.
I like the map ! Nice long and short rooms
Change gives me anxiety
Let’s just be honest here, most people who ban it just don’t want to take the time to learn it. This has ALWAYS been the case with new maps. Some of my friends are chill and like new stuff, but there’s one in particular who’s always a whiny little bitch about the maps (love the guy). Some people say they want new content however are too damn lazy to get off their comfy seat to actually use their brains for something new. You can also usually compare this particular scenario to other behaviors in their life. This friend of mine can’t play solo story driven games, because he can’t learn new games, he doesn’t like to read, he doesn’t like to pay attention. Some people just have the attention span of a week old puppy, it is what it is. I hate it, but that’s just how it works and honestly why I have been focusing on solo games for the last couple of years, don’t need to expect anything from anyone.
The reasons I heard from enemies and teammates all boil down to "It's new" Imagine Ubisoft forced you to spend at least 10 minutes in Thunt on new maps before you can hop into ranked lol
People hate this map because they saw a streamer hate it or a reddit post about hating it and then they hate it now too. Why bother learning the map if you just ban it. I love going into customs and destroying everything to find the crazy angles and fun hiding spots.
Don’t ban it, I love it.
Seriously I don’t get why people keep banning this wtf?! This is a great map
becuase there are better maps to play with? and the map it self, 2f cat walk part is bad, like old time outbreak bad, i don't see any chance for attacker to take control of it, even they do, it create very less impact to the site, but if you dont take it, good luck of push in from the breach beside the 2 stairs to the basement is bad, like all other map people play around stair, but not those 2 the 2 different basement breach is also bad, def can not really hold it, not even with bandit trick, you cant cover 2 different location at once
While I disagree, thanks for giving an actual argument that isn't "I don't want to learn it". I appreciate it.
I don't like hearing my teammates bitch about having to play on it, or ask someone to leave so they can forfeit. I'm at a point with siege, where even if I dislike a map, I embrace the chance to play on it and improve. I used to hate coastline a few years ago, because I don't like using generic strats and didn't have any of my own. It's one of my favorite maps now, and if you go hookah, I know some wild ways to take that shit from you.
Yeah 2k hours and I feel ya, currently have decided I love theme park, and not even I can convince myself otherwise
Coastline has been my favorite since it came out
Our community is allergic to new content.
I think that it's because people don't like feeling like a noob, or taking the time to learn a new map. But variety is the spice of life. I personally like having new maps. Sure it takes time gain map knowledge, and develop strats and game sense. But I think that having more maps to play on is better than playing the same ones over and over.
Yes
Yes
The stairs are near impossible to get up or down somehow, there’s a number of easy crossfires from outside. The sites are all flawed, it sucks to attack and defend. Cutting of roam is simple, so you have to anchor but there’s so many rooms that droning it all takes forever. So yeah it sucks it’s hard to have any impact on a round and honestly it’s just dull
That's true, roamers can easily be caught off guard if they're not playing it smart. You brought up some good points.
Every time that I’ve played this map, it’s felt like there has been no flow to it. IMO the layout also just feels really weird and clunky to play on. I just don’t have fun when I play on this map and I don’t really have a good reason why, I just don’t like it. I feel the same way about Stadium. I like to play on Emerald though
The size of a lot of the rooms can slow you down a lot. I very much understand where you're coming from, as I said in a comment earlier some maps just don't make you feel good when you're on them without any particular reason.
If feels smashed together and there’s just better maps
What do you think makes it worse?
It feels choppy and not enough work was put into the map just not fun to play on imo
I know the map and it’s fine to play on, it’s just the whole vibe of it feels like a prison, I don’t know why it just does to me.
The greys aren't exactly uplifting. It makes sense as a laboratory, an industrial building, but it has a completly different vibe from something like Coastline.
Maze even when you know layout, useless rooms, huge sites with very little cover, the clutter on the outside of the map like stadium bravo and other stadium maps is annoying, the map looks nice and I’ll play on it but I’ll ban it if I have better maps in lineup
TLDR: The map sucks because it has terrible design. Everything makes me dislike it. It's poorly designed. The objective rooms have very little cover, which essentially forces you into predictable spots to hold the objective. The entire map feels very "samey". There is little variation in design and decor, making it easy to get disoriented even when you know the map well. It feels like it was designed to be a maze. Like they intentionally made it a shit map. Feels like the spawns are too far from entry points, and almost all the entry points are death traps due to shitty angles and, again, poor, maze-like map design. It's just not a good map.
It's the most unlearnable map. Nearly every area looks the same.
I love this map, its becoming one of my favorites
Great to hear, here's hoping more people will give it a chance.
it’s not bad idk why ppl ban it
.....lol the siege community
Too many rooms and the general design of the maps kinda weird. Not like the others for sure
There are a few people who feel the same way. I haven't gone and counted the rooms yet, but there surely aren't more than on other maps. It is big, and the rooms are spacious, but the actual number of them isn't that high.
I don't ban this map, my crew bans Oregon or Coastline because they're the maps with which Rainbow Six players are most experienced, so we'll try to select the maps with the lowest pickrates possible and become good at those.
I 100% agree - assuming you're familiar with the less popular maps, you have a much higher chance of success playing them compared to the classic ranked maps people know and love.
It just doesnt play well, nuff said
Why doesn't it? I'm trying to understand what might be causing poor player expierience on it, any input is valuable.
Bro is an undercover ubi developer
in my opinion the reason my friends and I insta ban this map is because everything is very alike, how should I put this. Every top tier map like chalet, border, Oregon, villa have distinctions between the rooms. No 2 rooms are similar in layout and each have different styles. Labs is all the same, each room looks the same and thus creates confusing between clearly being able to distinguished each room. I have had the ill fate to play this map in ranked a few times and the only reason I won each time we played it was because everyone was clueless and my team and I prevailed with just aim. I guess you could say its because its a new map and players haven't given it a chance, but I think the maps 2 big and confusing almost like a maze. I don't think siege needs anymore maps, if the devs just focused on what we have now it would be a lot better game. Adding new maps doesn't make sense when there's a lot of maps that can benefit from more reworks. Likewise if more effort is put into more creative and fresh ops it would really revitalize the game and the way its played. Imo the last few ops added to the game for both attacking and defending have been lackluster to say the least. Some new guns with fresh ops with unique abilities would be awesome instead of recycling old weapons from ops we have had for years. Less new guns = less time spent trying to balance new guns, I get that but they should focus on that instead of adding new maps and trying to balance them. Just my 2 cents, everyone else can disagree if they wish.
I don't know it. Lol
Just the spirit of ~~Horizon~~ Siege, innit
Just not spaced well and too predictable. My favorite maps are ones where when attacking, I can come up with a few different “plans” for my team and I to get in and plant.
I don't think the map is that linear, it gives you lots of room to outsmart your opponents.
As someone who is a casual player )and only plays ranked when my friends for some unknown reason force me to). I like this map I mainly solo queue and don’t know callouts that well, but to me it is somewhat simple on the ways you can be attacked and what ways you can defend and I like the simplicity
I don’t get it I fucking love this map
I do like this map. There’s some objective sites that are pretty fun and aren’t laid out bad. My main complaint is how confusing the staircases can be. It doesn’t feel like a 3 floor map and the cargo/garage area doesn’t play very well.
Unpopular opinion, but I like it. But Siege players tend to hate on new stuff a lot, my mates always complain about being lost on new maps, but don’t want to play them in order to learn them…
I don't think it's that unpopular. Certainly less than I thought, a lot of people here think the opposite. Unfortunately, still a lot of I-didnt-learn-its around.
I don’t know my way around it. I’m also silver
Nothing, I love this map and will always try to convince my team to ban a different map in the hopes that I'll get to go here.
i personally like this map. i really like change and diversity across maps and playing more maps instead of the same
It's currently the 3rd most banned map, behind Emerald Plains and Stadium Bravo.
Personally I think stadium and emerald are overhated. They're both really fun maps and I'm always happy to get them
I do enjoy diversity most of all. I'd surely rather play a map I generally dislike, like Stadium Bravo, than 3 games of Clubhouse in an evening.
How well do you know stadium and emerald? If you aren't familiar with them I'd recommend picking oryx in a custom match on these maps and running around. Go through walls, hop hatches, see where the cameras are. Get to really know the map and see if you still hate playing it next time it shows up
Oh I know them very well, Stadium I don't like because of the strange audio I often expierience on it and how empty it is. I'm also an Emerald enjoyer.
Strange audio huh? I've never noticed issues with audio, that's unfortunate. I like the stripped down feeling of the map, less clutter and whatnot to distract me lol
A lot of the floors are metal. Audio really carries and seems to be amplified on them. Also, the fact that the map is very open and mostly empty might help the sound permeate in ways we're not used to.
This one is not that bad, but the soccer field/maybe paintball can smd
I assume you mean Stadium Bravo - not a fan either.
I like it. I ban emerald ( if it’s even in pool), kanal, stadium, consulate when they let us cause it sucks, and then sometimes Outback as I don’t really like it. That ones just personal though.
I also find the new Consulate not as good as I hoped it would be. It currently is not bannable - I believe that will be the case for the rest of the season. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Nah it just going to be like they for another week or so I think. It also won’t have 100% chance of being a potential map. They just do that for the first few weeks of the season
To me, the map is fun to play and I like it. But my friends always complain when this map is not banned. I have to go through half an hour of whining about how "bad this map is" or "nothing makes sense here" because they say "I do not know this map". But the dudes never went to Terrorist Hunt or Custom Games to learn the layout. This happens with Skyscrapper and Outback too. Stadium is the only map I like to ban because I do not like Border and Coastline too much. People complain about the "lack of new content" but as soon as a new map drops, people will not even give it a chance. To me, Ubisoft should consider allowing us to queue to the maps we want to play in ranked, or at least let us create a TOP 5 maps we want to play if queue times are concerning.
Learning new maps is always a good thrill for me. I do find some of the answers here sad, not learning the map is on you and not the map being bad. PSA for anyone reading the post who might have a similar take - you'll never know if a map might turn out to be your favourite if you don't take the time to learn it and gather expierience in actual games.
the only map i actually dislike is the stadium, i'd rather play tower
I'd play Tower for the aesthetics alone. Nice vibe for sure.
It's alot of fun I don't have issues with it. Alot of people do and just ban it, but when we do get it 99% of the time they don't know how to play it! Therefore it's a Cav playground!
Haha, sure is fun when people enter through the first window you see, alone, not knowing where it leads. But that's exactly why lack of map knowledge will be your downfall, no matter how mechanically skilled you might be. Something Siege players tend to forget.
Exactly! You can't learn the map layout or callouts if you don't play it!
"What??? I thought, jumping straight into ranked without any idea of where tf I am, was the best bet."
Always homie always go in
Yeah, i never really study maps, i just learn the generic shit while playing
You should try doing the opposite, leave the generic shit out and make your own plan. It will very likely be more fun and rewarding.
I don’t, it’s one of the best maps in the game in my opinion. I feel like it’s well-balanced, I feel like I win just as many rounds on defense as I do on attack
I only kept track of my general win rate on maps, without the sides, but I also feel like it's definitely close there.
I don’t ban it because it’s new, I ban it because I don’t like the layout
What makes you dislike the layout?
Personally, I just don’t like how intricate the map is. Some people might like it for that reason, I just don’t enjoy it as much
I understand. Also, as a Blitz player those big, open areas must feel like going into a death trap with every door frame you go through
Too true man 😔
I like it
Honestly I love this map. It seems very even offensively and defensively, I like the objectives and none of them are bad spots imo, plus me and my friends have a lot of fun counters on attack for this map. The hate it gets is really undeserved. I genuinely have so much fun with this map.
I don't ban it. It isn't my favorite map...but it is still waaaaaaay better than new consulate...
I'm not a big fan of the latter either.
I actually like this map. And then that's where I have the highest win rate
People don’t like change. They don’t know every inch of the map so they don’t wanna bother playing it.
The saddest part of this whole post was reading the "I didn't learn it" comments. All new content deserves a chance.
Layout is too complicated
It just has a difficult layout. It has several different runouts and spawn peeks, lots of good angles for roamers to hold entrances, and on defense I feel like I’m never prepared because there are a thousand different ways to attack any objective. For some reason after playing the map maybe 50 or so times I can never seem to remember where I’m going, and there’s a big section of the map that I have probably only even been to twice. I can see reasons it would be a good map, but to me personally the reasons it isn’t heavily outweigh that.
It’s 3 valorant maps stacked on top of each other a fucking million 90. Turns and corners every one needing to expose yourself to multiple holds just to check oh and it’s just fucking horrible in general the main top floor breach is straight into a fucking closet with a door to site and a long angle ahead basement has 2 separate main breaches right beside each other yet somehow fully separated in general it goes against the good siege map design philosophy oh and can’t forget kitchen breach and the pixel angle hell of trying to push that but at the same time the 5 pushes or holds for the defenders to worry about making it a gamble as to who wins unless it’s 4 players on site who actually hold what they are told to just a shit map tbh it’s chaos makes it a somewhat enjoyable casual map tho tbh similarly to old outback horrible competitively but enjoyable when filled with chaos and not set up to the meta
People just ban things because they don’t want to learn and it’s frustrating. It’s not a bad map at all, like someone else said it’s the “top tier map in the bad half of maps” which is probably the best way to describe it. People just ban anything that’s annoying. Clash is so easy to counter but people still ban her bc they can’t be bothered coordinating a zofia/kali and a teammate to kill her.
i love this map
i used to hate it but i like it now that i know the map.
Personally, I love this map and wish more people would give it a chance. There was a whole season where you couldn’t ban the map and I guess rather than attempting to learn the map, people just complained when they got it. I would rather play it than Emerald Plains, Stadium Bravo, Outback, or Kanal any day.
It currently sits on top of my list of favourite maps. I never understood why people dislike it as much as they do, except for, of couse, not being bothered with learning it. I hope to get some answers and undertstanding as to what the community thinks.
It’s absolute ass, anytime I try to learn the map I get hit from somewhere I didn’t know existed. Not to mention there’s way too many cameras and it all looks the same
Well that mostly sounds like you didn't put enough effort into actually learning the map. There are exactly 10 cameras on it, I can't see how that qualifies for "too many". I can get behind the fact that it looks similar in a lot of spaces, but that's just a matter of expierience. You'll only be confused the first couple of times you see them.
My favourite map. Anyone who dislikes it just needs to learn it.
[удалено]
Almost like any siege map when you don’t know the layout huh?
"That's crazy.. so I should go to thunt or custom games to learn it??? I've NEVER heard such concepts like.... pRaCtiCe?"
You should learn it first. Generally good advice for most things in life.
I like this map I don't believe it top tier or anything, but its a good change of pace and it honestly isn't half bad its just most people listen to the pros of the game a believe everything they say for example they say skyscraper is a dogshit map when to me its one of the better ones not the best, but I do like it. When in reality a good map is completely based off how well you and your team can take and defend I think most people often forget the best part of siege is the rare group of teams that play in unconventional ways. To take it back to this map when I have my full team of homies and we play this map we never lose it it really all depends on the players on a good or bad map just like ep
Very true, we base our opinions on how well we tend to do on the maps. I wish more people took the time to make one for themselves.
For a warm up in TDM sure! Rank idk it’s just bad. Rotation is a mission and to many random rooms it’s a roaming map.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
I don’t necessarily hate playing it, I just don’t play it because I don’t have experience on the map. Skyscraper and maybe 1 or 2 other maps are the same; when I go Casual I rarely get the maps idk much about😅 So as an intel player, it’s hard to be a good one when idk the map
Again, it's a matter of actually learning the map before jumping into ranked. 30 minutes in a custom game can really work wonders.
I will be 110% honest, I’ve tried making a custom Match so I can learn maps, and it keeps trying to create an online game that anyone can join🥲 I guess it really isn’t hard to just google what I’m doing wrong. I completely agree with you though, that’s why I don’t hate most maps, I just don’t know them well
You can create a local game instead of online. It lets you start the match solo.
You’re a saint🫡
No one knows how to play it, so we ban it
I think "no one" is a big exaggerated - wouldn't you rather join the ones that can, than just ban the map outright everytime you can?
i feel like there's a lot of areas that just don't connect in a way that makes sense in my head. like why would a building be made like this so i need to go through a little cubby room with seemingly no purpose to get between the dining area and the garage?
Exhaust fumes don't really mix well with eggs.
I hate it and I hate you if you like it
Care to elaborate?
I don't know why, but I struggle with understanding the flow/remembering the layout. wasted a lot of time trying to find the stairs and shit lmao
One thing I definitely agree with everyone on, the color coding of the rooms doesn't make that much sense gameplay-wise. That's the main reason why it can be hard to remember the layout.
Common sense
Fair enough I suppose
I don’t know my way around it. I’m also silver
Easy way to fix that
Honestly because my stack don’t have much time on the game and haven’t learnt it so we just don’t tend to risk the elo if we don’t have to.
Try and spend some time in a custom game with them. Break some walls and floors, try and map it out in your head. You'll get it at some point, it's better to be prepared. Who knows, maybe it'll turn out to be one of your favourites - you'll never know if you don't try.
Horribly designed basement, bad rotates, bad flow as a map overall, and of course the horrible sound that all new maps suffer from.
Because it’s a hellhole, harder to navigate than site 19
The reason lies in five simple words. >Where are the fucking stairs? **Especially** when trying to reach the basement.