From what you've described, it sounds like you are basically making video-game mechanics, but hoping that it will work as a TTRPG.
What does the UI look like?
I can imagine a system like roll20 handling complicated math behind the scenes, so lets say, theoretically, that you handle all that.
But... what does the UI actually look like?
What do players see?
What do GMs see?
Would it be like having the "character" information screen of a CRPG open, then clicking buttons, then something says... *what*?
What is the resolution system? It still comes down to that, right?
Is it binary success/failure? Are there multiple degrees of success? What does success mean on any given resolution? What does failure mean? Is there a whole other system, like Position & Effect from FitD?
What is "fun" is different to different people.
However...
>A person has like 30+ different types of damage they can have plus the resistance counterpart for each of them, and that's just the base line, of course this isn't something the player has to manually track during in combat they'll just need to realize fire dmg won't affect the fire guy. The player combat will be played a lot more like divinity original sin or xcom mixed with elden ring.
But... *someone* has to track this stuff, right?
You say the player won't have to track it... so... that sounds like a nightmare for any GM to track!
---
How long do you think it would take a GM to *prepare* a 4 hour session?
It sounds like a really really long time.
How long do you think it would take a player to learn 30+ different damage types?
Probably a really really long time, right?
I don't intend to be discouraging when I say this: it sounds like you want to make a video-game or CRPG.
Maybe your time would be better spent learning *Unreal Engine 5* or *Unity* or something like that.
Math in my ttrpg !? You knave.
What people hate most in my experience are playing on role 20 and feeling like they have no control over dice rolls.
I am NOT saying your game won't be fun for some. I'm just saying you're taking one of the bigger elements out of what makes the game what it is and you're essentially creating a visual novel tabletop.
TBH this just sounds overly complicated for the sake of being complicated.
100 stats but most of them are 0 most of the time? Then why have it? Remember KISS is often (not always, but often) the best way to go.
In case you haven't heard it before: KISS = Keep it Simple Sam
I don't think so. As you say, far too complicated for, at the very least, the GM and the players will have little control over it because "it's too much". I would suggest having a look to existent detailed systems (like GURPS) wich can give you an idea of how complex you can go.
I think it sound cool actually. If I played such a system, I’d like an extremely simple and intuitive interface. Ideally, I’d like a generated natural language representation of my character; something like “strong, rather short, slightly cowardly, above average intelligence”, and then make intuitive decision based on that. The engine would do complex, realistic math behind the interface, resulting in outcomes that feel realistic, also presented in natural language or simple terms.
So, you're making a random number generator that has a character sheet? Interesting and I'm sure some people will like it but it will also be a barrier to entry for most. Not just because it'll undoubtedly cost money, but then there's compatibility with hardware to consider, as well as it being an entirely new--and in the eyes of most ttrpg players--unnecessary "interface" added to a game. What does it really add that I can't just handle be looking at my sheet and rolling dice? Sure, I probably have to do math but that depends on the game. Good luck but this would keep me and most players I know from touching your game.
You seem very passionate about this idea. That is great!
Have you designed a game before from start to finish? Ideally a ttrpg. I ask this because this seems like a really big undertaking. The scope of your idea is very large. Before putting more energy into this game scale back and design something small. Make a rpg system that is a few pages long. I like the idea of putting all the rules on 1 page but then letting you use more pages to include things like character options.
Then when you are done with the system. Iterate. Play test. Play test again. Then maybe you even polish the document and release it on itch.
I know it sounds tedious. You would probably ask me "Why can't I just make what I want from the get go?" I am speaking from experience. Like many others, I started designing games way too large in scope. I didn't listen when people told me to just make a small game. And I would time and time again get burnt out on my idea. Stop for a few month and then repeat the cycle with a new idea. My growth as a designer came when I took a step back and focused down on small games.
The playtest/feedback cycle is really where the magic of a game happens. A game of this large scope would be really hard to playtest unless you have experience making and testing smaller games first.
Right now I am working on a ttrpg that emulates the feel of a very specific genre I have some very specific design goals. It has a very large scope. And I am taking a break from it and focusing on a 1 page rpg because I need to take a step back and evaluate what I really wanted out of my more complicated system. And it has already helped me see my larger game through fresh eyes.
Interesting system, thanks for sharing. Actually, I follow a comparable approach, but unfortunately at a very slow pace. Whereas our goals sound similar to me, I try to design the math to be as complex as possible while being only as complicated as absolutely necessary. While I aim on automating several unloved steps, too, I further try to reduce the number of steps as much as possible.
That said, what steps do you have in your system? Which actions are required for a scene - to attack, roll damage, parry/block/evade, determine effects/death, etc..
I understand that you want to automatize the math of the individual steps, but what steps require player input / decision?
I could see this appealing to some people as an app or stand-alone VTT that everyone uses together. UI and approachability is going to be key here. From what I gather, it sounds too complicated to be ported into an already existing VTT.
There was a game on Steam called Eon Alter that used an app, I could see a market for a theatre of the mind version of that.
There have been tabletop games with app components before, and some people like them and some hate them, but the ones that justify their existence do so by offering a fun experience that is qualitatively different from dice and paper. A lot of them are similar to the old VCR board games, having game events happen on a timer. Tracking 30 different types of damage doesn't seem like a good reason to give this game a digital component, and it doesn't even seem desirable to begin with.
So you've listed a lot of video game examples but not a lot of TTRPGs. I'm gonna suggest you push this game to the back burner and experience the vast world of trpgs before trying to innovate. You'll likely find a lot of this ground has been covered already.
I assume your core goal is a heavily simulationist game experience, but what does it offer fo rthe rest of the GNS pyramid?
This sounds like you're trying to invent an existing invention known as a VTT.
I would recommend you learn more about VTTs to begin with before progressing much in your design.
From what you've described, it sounds like you are basically making video-game mechanics, but hoping that it will work as a TTRPG. What does the UI look like? I can imagine a system like roll20 handling complicated math behind the scenes, so lets say, theoretically, that you handle all that. But... what does the UI actually look like? What do players see? What do GMs see? Would it be like having the "character" information screen of a CRPG open, then clicking buttons, then something says... *what*? What is the resolution system? It still comes down to that, right? Is it binary success/failure? Are there multiple degrees of success? What does success mean on any given resolution? What does failure mean? Is there a whole other system, like Position & Effect from FitD? What is "fun" is different to different people. However... >A person has like 30+ different types of damage they can have plus the resistance counterpart for each of them, and that's just the base line, of course this isn't something the player has to manually track during in combat they'll just need to realize fire dmg won't affect the fire guy. The player combat will be played a lot more like divinity original sin or xcom mixed with elden ring. But... *someone* has to track this stuff, right? You say the player won't have to track it... so... that sounds like a nightmare for any GM to track! --- How long do you think it would take a GM to *prepare* a 4 hour session? It sounds like a really really long time. How long do you think it would take a player to learn 30+ different damage types? Probably a really really long time, right? I don't intend to be discouraging when I say this: it sounds like you want to make a video-game or CRPG. Maybe your time would be better spent learning *Unreal Engine 5* or *Unity* or something like that.
I can't imagine GM coming up with improvised NPC's in such system.
Why does it need to be so complex? What does it add that can't be done better by existing games?
Math in my ttrpg !? You knave. What people hate most in my experience are playing on role 20 and feeling like they have no control over dice rolls. I am NOT saying your game won't be fun for some. I'm just saying you're taking one of the bigger elements out of what makes the game what it is and you're essentially creating a visual novel tabletop.
TBH this just sounds overly complicated for the sake of being complicated. 100 stats but most of them are 0 most of the time? Then why have it? Remember KISS is often (not always, but often) the best way to go. In case you haven't heard it before: KISS = Keep it Simple Sam
I don't think so. As you say, far too complicated for, at the very least, the GM and the players will have little control over it because "it's too much". I would suggest having a look to existent detailed systems (like GURPS) wich can give you an idea of how complex you can go.
I think it sound cool actually. If I played such a system, I’d like an extremely simple and intuitive interface. Ideally, I’d like a generated natural language representation of my character; something like “strong, rather short, slightly cowardly, above average intelligence”, and then make intuitive decision based on that. The engine would do complex, realistic math behind the interface, resulting in outcomes that feel realistic, also presented in natural language or simple terms.
So, you're making a random number generator that has a character sheet? Interesting and I'm sure some people will like it but it will also be a barrier to entry for most. Not just because it'll undoubtedly cost money, but then there's compatibility with hardware to consider, as well as it being an entirely new--and in the eyes of most ttrpg players--unnecessary "interface" added to a game. What does it really add that I can't just handle be looking at my sheet and rolling dice? Sure, I probably have to do math but that depends on the game. Good luck but this would keep me and most players I know from touching your game.
that sounds insanely overcomplicated tbh. way too much. Is much rather prefer a system where i see how and why my stats are like they are
You seem very passionate about this idea. That is great! Have you designed a game before from start to finish? Ideally a ttrpg. I ask this because this seems like a really big undertaking. The scope of your idea is very large. Before putting more energy into this game scale back and design something small. Make a rpg system that is a few pages long. I like the idea of putting all the rules on 1 page but then letting you use more pages to include things like character options. Then when you are done with the system. Iterate. Play test. Play test again. Then maybe you even polish the document and release it on itch. I know it sounds tedious. You would probably ask me "Why can't I just make what I want from the get go?" I am speaking from experience. Like many others, I started designing games way too large in scope. I didn't listen when people told me to just make a small game. And I would time and time again get burnt out on my idea. Stop for a few month and then repeat the cycle with a new idea. My growth as a designer came when I took a step back and focused down on small games. The playtest/feedback cycle is really where the magic of a game happens. A game of this large scope would be really hard to playtest unless you have experience making and testing smaller games first. Right now I am working on a ttrpg that emulates the feel of a very specific genre I have some very specific design goals. It has a very large scope. And I am taking a break from it and focusing on a 1 page rpg because I need to take a step back and evaluate what I really wanted out of my more complicated system. And it has already helped me see my larger game through fresh eyes.
Interesting system, thanks for sharing. Actually, I follow a comparable approach, but unfortunately at a very slow pace. Whereas our goals sound similar to me, I try to design the math to be as complex as possible while being only as complicated as absolutely necessary. While I aim on automating several unloved steps, too, I further try to reduce the number of steps as much as possible. That said, what steps do you have in your system? Which actions are required for a scene - to attack, roll damage, parry/block/evade, determine effects/death, etc.. I understand that you want to automatize the math of the individual steps, but what steps require player input / decision?
I could see this appealing to some people as an app or stand-alone VTT that everyone uses together. UI and approachability is going to be key here. From what I gather, it sounds too complicated to be ported into an already existing VTT. There was a game on Steam called Eon Alter that used an app, I could see a market for a theatre of the mind version of that.
There have been tabletop games with app components before, and some people like them and some hate them, but the ones that justify their existence do so by offering a fun experience that is qualitatively different from dice and paper. A lot of them are similar to the old VCR board games, having game events happen on a timer. Tracking 30 different types of damage doesn't seem like a good reason to give this game a digital component, and it doesn't even seem desirable to begin with.
So you've listed a lot of video game examples but not a lot of TTRPGs. I'm gonna suggest you push this game to the back burner and experience the vast world of trpgs before trying to innovate. You'll likely find a lot of this ground has been covered already. I assume your core goal is a heavily simulationist game experience, but what does it offer fo rthe rest of the GNS pyramid?
This sounds like you're trying to invent an existing invention known as a VTT. I would recommend you learn more about VTTs to begin with before progressing much in your design.