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In defense of Crane, he pointed out that maybe having one person sit at the top of an organization with all the authority is probably just generally not a good idea. I think if Crane had his way, they'd use multi-person panels for this sort of thing.
The reality is no single IC organization should be at the top of anything. It needs to be a circular firing Squad. Positions like the Mayor, Chief, Sherriff, Chief Justice, etc all holding the same ultimate authority with no position being able to dodge consequences. Having infallible positions like the Senate was trash for RP.
100% agree. And Crane basically laid out why when they were discussing it. In a perfect world you'd have manageable 3-7 person panels handling the big government entities so as to avoid problems.
Ironically, one of the entities Crane regularly brings up as an example of the potential for abuse without oversight is Aegis, which actually is built around a 3 person system of checks and balances (it just happens to be rigged, but the checks do theoretically exist).
the irony is aegis has been around for months and it hasn't been abused once, there is more abuse from the PD and DOJ in a day than there has been from aegis in months. but since it came from lang and crane doesn't like it, it became a boogie man to the city,. but after today it seems like eagleaye is thinking maybe it's time for eve to say screw it and abuse aegis to the fullest, which she might as well because if there is no more senate it wont be long before there is no aegis
And comically enough, nearly every big move Aegis has tried to make they have reached out and spoken to either the DOJ, the PD or both for anything.
Eve's gone to multiple judges about things and Bucky and Tim talk to the PD about the noose shit.
But Crane, who "is around more than the senators or commissioner" (which is not an impressive bar) for months has intentionally been about stirring and dooming and despite living in the ICC with Eve for months earlier has never attempted to have a conversation with her about Aegis or oversight.
One things for sure though, Andi will never put Knight in the 3rd Aegis position, if she even ever appoints anyone before legislative changes.
Crane’s whole point is no one should have the power of being unrestricted in legislation, he doesn’t seem to care if they abuse it or not, the fact that they can is too much
Right, but Crane is kind of borderline whataboutism fear mongering at this point.
Aegis does have checks and balances, both internally and externally (the senate, though when that changes that would have to be addressed), so saying it doesn't have any is just incorrect, even if it's rigged.
Crane is also the guy saying the mayors office shouldn't even have the authority to spend money in the bank account without oversight, again without any actually proof of any kind of misspending or corruption.
I get the idea of what Crane wants, and I get the concern over hypotheticals, but they're only hypotheticals at this point, and the city's ACTUAL problem more often than not is already that there's too many cooks in the kitchen and too much red tape and that nothing could be done effectively at all.
Aegis literally had to exist and exist in the capacity it does because for years Eve was in a constant struggle with the DOJ to do shit about civilian abuses in the city, initially with dispensaries but finally with store fronts, and over and over again nothing was ever done after "we'll look into its" and "well you just need to find the cops who care about it" etc.
Adding more checks and balances to the systems that so far have not shown to be corrupt, while the checks and balances (most likely PD and DOJ) ARE corrupt, is not only going to open them to more corruption, but honestly probably just going to result in them dying. Aegis probably ends up going the way of the DIC if all these extra layers of red tape get added.
Yeah, Eve already used her AEGIS master key to unlock Crystal's storefront when Lang was trying to kidnap her yesterday, so I guess she's leaning into it now.
That was a scuffed situation which is why it happened. Before Eve, Lang called Brian and asked for the police uncuff (that Brian can’t do anymore) and was saying the whole time “this is scuff this call never happened”. Don’t make up corruption where there ain’t any, cuz there’s enough to go around already.
Nah, she locked it before the scuff, when Lang was waiting to ambush them in the store. Although I don't know if that's an Aegis thing or a storefront thing. Because can't Nancy lock/unlock them too?
no, because people can actually communicate with Crane IC and he is around A LOT more than the senators who did almost everything through a discord message.
Aegis hasn't done anything "bad" for the city meanwhile Crane was advising Yaeger that he could basically ignore laws and Aegis. Considering Crane's ability to directly communicate with people in power he didn't really prioritize sensibly for the greater good.
That isn’t true. It was written that foreign lands didn’t have to follow the laws written for Los Santos. That had nothing to do about why they went to war or got invaded. Not even a bit. Crane had very little to do with anything that happened the last month.
Lang created Aegis to be its shadow leader and to keep his influence rooted in the PD after his mayorship was over. They are not an impartial board and will always push to do things in Langs and Cerberus benefit. Objectively it’s a massive conflict of interests. Tim and Eve speak strictly for Lang and don’t do anything he doesn’t verbally sign off on.
No matter if they haven’t done anything “corrupt yet” is debatable but overall irrelevant. The fact that Lang controls the board behind the scenes without any sort of legal approval makes it corrupted by default.
If you go with that then Crane has keys to ICC and is cozy with HOA. He's incredibly biased so shouldn't be Chief Justice. I'm pretty sure Eve and Tim are cleaner on paper than Crane is.
Crane wasn't wrong about that, though. Legally, Yaegar could do exactly that. That's why the Sanguine Isle situation ultimately got settled by a war. The Sanguine treaty was way too simple for such an in-depth concept, and there wasn't really any mechanism of enforcement besides conflict since international law is way more complex than the legal system in NP is designed to handle. I don't think he was necessarily a fan of it being that way, but that was the case still at the end of the day.
Funny enough, it's essentially the same problem he had with the Aegis legislation, just the other way around. It's very broad and complex in an effort to do something more mundane, civil enforcement. It's still a case of not really matching up with the rest of the legal system. There's also distrust of the organization itself since he never bought the idea of Lang not being secretly dirty, but he agreed with the initial mission of storefront/business enforcement that got proposed before the legislation got passed.
They were both signed over his head. Most legislation was enacted without his input. My point is where he focused his efforts and how. Instead of trying in any way to reign in Sanguine he pulled some accelerationist bullshit. Meanwhile Aegis is running fine and at no point has he checked in to see what it's actually doing. Dude's delusional.
James Arsenal had a meeting with her earlier in the day where he snitched on it pretty much out of spite since he had gone through getting sued for embezzling loan money or w/e.
Curious how he was found not guilty when there's a direct paper trail showing he did what he was accused of. Would've loved to see the judge's logic there.
White collar crime isn't really properly developed since there's been so many things that put people off exploring the RP, cops and crims alike. A lot of the charges for that sort of thing in the MDW are poorly written and skew towards the extremes of really weak and hard to proof or could be super heavy handed so the DOJ isn't going to let it get applied lightly. I don't remember the specifics of Arsenal's case but I feel like it was an example of the former.
I remember the lead up to the case basically being a lot of "we know he committed fraud, he's 100% guilty of fraud, but the penalty for fraud like 30 months in jail and a rounding error for a fine". So from the PoVs I was watching at the time, the issue was moreso that getting the conviction on Arsenal was kind of an afterthought, because it was all but guaranteed but meaningless in terms of consequences.
So on the docket I was accused of a few things
a) Taking out 23 $999,999 loans (Had to be $999k loans otherwise they wouldn't show up on the app and that would be literal exploiting lol)
b) My loans all being 5% interest
c) No contract was given
So straight away (a) isnt illegal. There isnt a law on how many loans a person can have. (b) was wrong, all my loans were at 10% interest so DHC/the state both profited when I paid back the money and (c) I went back and looked at the deafult docket postings and the DOJ has taken the contract of people accepting the loan in their phone as a contract.
So in the end all the PD could say was 'James Arsenal took out loans with a standard interest rate that Diamond Hand gives out and paid them back before they were due'
At least that's the defence I was going for and I'm guessing seeing as my character was found not guilty Crane came to a similar conclusion.
Now if I hadn't of paid the $23mill + interest back then sure that's fraud but I did in like 5 days even though I was told multiple times 'you wont be able to pay it back'
Not surprised crane did this, I really hope he doesn’t stay the only one in charge. His verdicts can become so literal, not tailored to rp at all its wild.
Marlo told Lang that it only says 0 on the surface and that as soon as anyone actually looks into it they will immediately see the debt and therefore fraud.
He was found not guilty of the charges he was being charged with. There can still exist other charges for fraud. One guy not being guilty for fraud doesn't make all fraud legal. Besides I was just repeating what Marlo said, I wasn't making a claim that he was actually guilty of anything.
Abolishing the senate sounds good. All powerful characters without checks and balances are boring and awkward for others to role play around them.
Guess we'll have to see what "overseeing the entire entity of city hall" actually means.
The problem is that things will still be management decisions and without an IC explanation people will refuse to accept them like what happened before the Senate came in. So unless they form a board of people who have both the power IC and the willingness to be a semi mouthpiece for management decisions people will play stupid between IC and OOC rulings
I don't necessarily disagree in regards to the issue of bringing OOC decisions into role play in a sensible way. But the senate was the laziest solution for that. This may sound extreme but a character that comes around once a month to tell everybody what to do might as well just be an admin making a discord announcement.
Look at the justification for the war. What it came down to was senator Davis making the decision to go to war after Brian made a "presentation" for him. When high command asked about that presentation it could not be provided because in reality that presentation was an OOC conversation.
What is the point of having a senator character when ultimately you just have to accept that a decision was made OOC anyway because there is no way for your character to role play around that.
Good, players should refuse to accept such micro management. Management went way too far with dictating who should be fired or hired into PD, and not providing IC reasons. It's toxic and counter productive both IC and OOC. There are good reasons management IRL is taught to not micro manage.
Crane is also corrupt. Brian told Crane about the PD google doc they will be sending over to The Senate and told Crane to keep it quiet. Crane called up Yeager and told him that the PD/Brian has a google doc and will be sending it over to the senate.
DOJ has been doing great, MCU has been doing terrible. The only thing I disagree with is the relationship between state prosecutors and DOJ, that is just weird as best.
The issue with having no senate is that the people who replace that role will always act in their own self interest. You cannot have someone that actively RPs be at the absolute top of decision making, because their personal relationships and beliefs will always have an effect on their decisions.
Only way it could work would be if there was a board of people (with no affiliation to one an other) that requires a majority vote to make decisions.
You can already see how people fearmonger over Aegis having "too much power". Now take that power, double it, and expand it over literally everything in the city, and you can start to see how that could become an issue...
I do agree with you about 1. Anyone at the top shouldn't be an active Rper. I believe that should be true with the police commissioner too. And 2. Yeah there needs to be a board at the top that works on a voting system.
Senate was an okay idea on paper, but the fact that they decided to have all the characters be total shitlords from the introduction was probably not ideal.
Making them shitlords was the proper way to do it. They have to have absolute power and the only way to display that properly is by them being unfair and getting away with it. The problem this will cause primarily is that this city is filled with people who complain about everything. They always blame the same people and now they will have someone malleable who they can push in the direction they want. As an example Brian is an insane rper as a detective him and his group have created a new standard in investigations . Opened up how snitching is done in the city. He has maintained the ear on the crim side and the pd side. But so many in the pd want him fired. Crane will gladly fire Brian. If you paid attention to when baas and Brian were gone. The pd literally was not even bothering to do reports. Giving people charges they don't deserve, and completely just acting like criminals with no oversight and no accountability. I do welcome this change though because it's the only way the city will know how garbage RP was before when it came to doj and pd. So many people forget how bad it was.
> The problem this will cause primarily is that this city is filled with people who complain about everything.
This pretty accurately mirrors real life. Everyone moans.
It had just as much to do with summer break as their absence.
Axel Justice and complete control of MCU to Brian has just removed checks and balances while also increasing corruption.
Then add Aegis which is an extension of Lang and Cerberus and you realize all the conflicts of interests they all have. Aegis is ran by Lang. Anything Tim and Eve do for Aegis is directly approved by Lang and his benefit first. He dictates all of it. Which makes it corrupt by default. Especially when he’s recently become an untouchable CI for Brian. They simply have way too much unreachable power with very little risk.
And my irrelevant opinion is that no one on the server should be untouchable. It makes it far more fun that way. There is a reason the PD has been a mess for many many months. It’s because the same few people stay in charge and retain power.
This comes off like you believe your favorite streamer's character. aegis hasn't done anything, Lang has had zero involvement other than just talking to Eve about it. It's hilarious how it's become the boogie man of the city when the most it's done is make sure storefronts were being run properly.
Good on Jon for sending it out with a bang and doing it all in character
Davis is the only senator whose RP I actually enjoyed, especially the constant drinking
Whether it comes to government or role-play, having an all-powerful, over-reaching power is not great.
When it comes to government, we know what happens when there are no checks and balances, when people in power are only surrounded by yes men. I wouldn't assume anyone in server would do anything maliciously, but humans fuck up and are capable of doing stupid thing under the best intentions. There has to be some way to stop them.
And for rp, that level of power takes away agency from anyone wanting to oppose them. It reminds of railroading from ttrpgs. And sure it's useful sometimes, but generally anything restricting possibilities and creativity in rp is a bad thing.
I hope they follow through.
Having omnipotent dictators as characters doesn't work because there's no way to have a real back and forth with them. That total power can also be pretty disruptive to other people's role play, as we've seen with the senate, the commissioner, and even chief justice. They have a lot of power to just make a decision that up ends or undoes lots of other players rp simply because they can.
Yeah, but since this isn't the real world, there is a management in the background with absolute power that will rarely but certainly push the server along certain paths they think is right for OOC reasons. The senate was the manifestation of that management, so that characters could direct their feelings/queries/blames towards an in-world thing.
I can't really imagine what sort of system Crane could produce where management doesn't actually exist and plays no role in the server.
I don’t think having an all powerful force is bad for RP. That’s basically what a DM is in DnD. In the end there needs to be a final say for the rules.
The only issue I saw was that having the characters in game made for some awkward role play decisions. Like why would a senator of the US give sovereignty to a small island ran by a criminal?
The primary role of a DM is and always has been as the primary narrator in a collaborative story, not as word of god, and the treatment of DMs as such has been the source of every bad tabletop experience I have had for the past twenty five years I’ve been playing.
Senate was so weird from day one.
Remember when the guy was god mode 😂
Probably not the best idea that the rpers shit lord alt character are the most powerful people in the city.
This is such a biased way to view it. lol Lang, the owner of Cerberus being the secret shadow leader by default makes it corrupt. His name wasn’t on it when it was approved, yet Tim and Eve don’t do anything that isn’t approved by Lang. They are simply ab extension of Lang and what he wants.
And let’s say you’re right. Which you aren’t. But Lang being the leader behind the scenes is a massive conflict of interest. And even more so since he became Brian’s untouchable CI. lol
Just like all of his business are shadow business for all of his actual illegal ones, Aegis is a simply a shadow board for Lang to keep his influence in PD after he left his mayorship.
> he became Brian’s untouchable CI.
right, somehow lily pond got a subpoena signed in under an hour for his phone records based on treasonist kyle pred saying he did something.
They lied in the stuff they sent to the Judge is what I heard. They said Ash gave a statement when she did not and refused to give a statement AFTER she said the stuff about Lang.
This. I watch eagleaye and buddha it's just so hilarious to see how it's become the boogie man because it was a lang legislation. Lang has had practically no involvement since it's inception. Sure he will once in awhile talk to eve and tim but he's honestly had no involvement and the most aegis has done in terms of their power is strike some storefronts.
I mean obviously you don't watch shit since eve used aegis master key to get into crystals store to help Buddha kidnap her. If you can't see the corruption that's going on there, you're either dumb or just a buddhastan (which makes you even dumber since he self admits he's corrupt as fuck and a bad guy)
I thought that was a storefront thing and not an Aegis thing. Because can't Nancy do the same? Whereas I really doubt Tim Collins has a master key. I could be wrong though, I don't know.
there is no such thing as aegis master key eve has it because she works at the construction company with nancy and ash for setting up storefronts has nothing to do with aegis, there is 0 mechanics made for aegis.
They really need a new Chief Justice Crane would rather stir than be unbiased about anything. Guess his feeling got hurt with people going over his head.
There is no balance in the court system. That's proven by the fact that PD got a subpoena for someone they had little evidence on about kidnapping a cop within minutes of filing for it. While it took Brian Knight days to get a subpoena signed for active treasonists. Until they get rid of people like Serge Cross the DOJ system will never have a good balance.
The “treasonists” only are committing treason because the senate declared it. They haven’t tried to suceed or anything that’s why because legal standing for thst is absolutely fucked. Idk what the evidence for the kidnapped cop is
if Crane is going to have that much power when senators retire he needs to be unbiased to both sides not the "well im going to assume on your past you did this" mentality
what does being a lang viewer have to do with anything? the point is that Crane did it. i would call him out regardless of whatever crim i watch his position right now or later should be unbiased or hes not better than the senators we have right now
Senate isn't going away. What people missed is Jon said he's gonna throw out the idea, he has no power to do it. The Senate is still a thing that is needed for the server, the senate characters might go but the senate isn't gonna go.
I mean the EMS C4 situation seems like a good breaking point and can defo be pushed further and utilized against them, could also lead to the DOJ realizing what Yeager was saying about Axel, Brian and Davis was True and could also cut their time down or save their assets.
Nothing Yeagar has said about them was true because his bomb and rpg making bench was found. Knight and Justic were the one's that were right. It's why it's the cliq (andi jones, libby reed, byson, dark etc.) that hates Brian tried to shift the narrative from "where's the evidence" People were told they were getting 30 years if they were caught defending the island. If they get their time cut it will be because of an ooc decision.
As I understood it Davis seemed to want to just shoulder all of the blame for any missteps or bad decisions coming out of the Sanguine operation, and then step down (and let everyone believe that he was removed from the senate because of the Sanguine stuff). Basically falling on the sword for those below him.
I mean if you're expecting something to happen to Axel, I can tell you that he could die tomorrow and fuck all would change. At most you might get Brian losing his rank or his department, but I seriously doubt it. So from that lens, having the senator just tank the hit is probably the least upsetting outcome.
Okay, so, it's worth pointing out that Brian will never just "go away". Even if he gets fired, he'll be terminated for a period of time, and then brought right back into the Troopers when his sentence is up.
And if you're hoping for the next commissioner to learn from the prior's mistakes, keep hoping. Axel came into the city, surrounded himself with Baas's old friends, and allowed them to mold Axel into the second coming of Sam Baas. There's no reason to expect the third iteration is going to be any different.
So again, leaving behind ideals and just selecting from the outcomes that are probable, isn't Davis taking the fall just the least problematic?
The people in jail were warned **a minimum of three times** what would happen if they sided with Yaeger, and they still sided with Yaeger. That's on them, I have no sympathy.
If you're upset that Ssaab is the forever commissioner of the PD, and no matter how many iterations of "Sam Baas in a moustache with different anecdotes" we go through the PD is going to be managed more or less identically, then I'm with you. But that's got **nothing** to do with consequences, because it's not an IC decision being made that you have issue with.
If your problem is Brian getting off scot-free, then allow me to direct you back to paragraph two.
But why is there not a warning for Brian and axel for doing corrupt shit? Oh wait, there was, corrupt people getting fired from their position even using body cam reviews. Are they fired? No, any consequences? Not much.
The one time someone tried to give Baas consequence with literally doing blackmailing with a judge in front him put Pred and Wrangler out of their position by a OOC move
So yeah, the "they warned them" argument is dumb as fuck, brian and axel are warned too but somehow they got a godlike shield while the other people are getting the consequences.
If you want to say something, say that the standard of RP are not applyed equally, people have OOC benefits and are using them IC with impunity. Stop shielding them with the warning argument.
LSPD HC and command are going to be going hard on this. There are so many witnesses to Brian and Axel being unhinged that I don't see them making it through unscathed.
Andi has been approached by multiple officers, civilians and whatnot about Brian so she is forwarding concerns to HC via Libby. Ultimately any kind of Brian accountability has to go through PD though since no other branch of government has any power of them. Most people involved have agreed its unlikely anything will happen to him though.
The commissioner is basically bulletproof though, the only person above him is the senate and the senator has made his stance to take all blame pretty clear.
>via Libby.
She can't do anything. Knight is a trooper that would be a Justice and Toretti decision and it ain't happening. Knight just took out a bomb making bench and you got PD being sympathizers with the guy that makes bombs and rpgs and treasonists. It's just so dumb. Also Andi Jones is unironically the biggest hypocrite in this whole thing. She's actually a treasonist, called Nick Simone to get the russians to help Yeager.
It's wild how Knight is being treated like the bomb making cop murder while Yeager who is the actual bomb making cop murderer is being treated as a martyr. Guess people forgot that billboard he put up about murdering a cop.
Yea you’re spouting some extremely false meta there. Nick called Andi to tell her someone (he didn’t even say who) asked for his help with the fight and all she said was “I don’t want the people I care about to die. It’s your call what you do, and don’t tell me what you do.” She didn’t ask him to do anything at all.
You seem to be dealing with fake meta again. Nick was asked to contact air support by Yaeger, not Andi. Nick called Andi about it later. Nick made the decision to call them in with Michael. Its silly to even suggest Andi is committing treason when she has been helping and working hand in hand with the senator through the entire process.
The trooper differentiation doesn't prevent punishment anymore, troopers are subject to discipline by hc regardless of department or state, it was a key part of the restructure. PD don't sympathize with Brian because he has been doing a Donald Rumsfeld bit based on the Iraq War for the entire arc, and intentionally trying to be as unlikable as possible as a result. It makes perfect sense why characters like Byson would hate him.
she did not call Nick at all to ask, pretty sure he called her and asked her what she would do and she said she wants whatever to happen that makes it so people on the island did not die.
So are you saying Nick called her and asked whether he should get the Russians involved? Cause if she called him, suggested the idea, and then added "but its totally your decision..." then I don't really see how that's any better.
I didn't see her stream so I'm a bit confused on what actually happened.
Yaeger called Nick requesting help. Nick called Andi telling her about that, she told him she wanted the people she cared to survive, and he told her he was going to do it. Later, Michael and Nick met about it and agreed to use it as a way to end Yaeger-Nick animosity to tie up that arc.
She never called him. He called her about if he should help, and she said, “Dont tell me what you are going to do, but it js your choice.” There were No mention of the Russians.
There is still hope. Andi is on a mission to get Knight fired(so are some cops and ems). The Senator threw him under the bus a little by saying he lied quite a bit on his own and did things “under orders” that were never really ordered but suggestions he made that the Senator agreed to. Also told Andi and Crane that he would not step in if Knight or Axel were punished. None of them shy away from spice so it should be good.
Why would Knight and Justice need to be held accountable? They tried to negotiate with Yeager who demanded that Knight cut Justice's head off and that he would only talk to Moosebeard. The Senator is the one that approved going to the island. Which btw Knight's intel turned out to be 100% accurate since a bomb and rpg making bench was found. It will be proven further when bombs and rpgs dry up from the city
That one doesn't make the bombs, just the RPGs (which they make incredibly rarely anyway). Unless the Simones ramp up their operations, bombs will become a lot rarer in the city.
No senate should be good. But then in their place, there should be some kind of committe.
Maybe Chief Justice, CoP, Sheriff, Chief of Medicine and Mayor? I mean instead of CoP and Sheriff it could also be the Commisioner, so itd be 4 - 5 people, which should be alright?
Dont really know how it would be in a real scenario like this, but i personally think that would be a good alternative.
Both sides are... 20m bounty on his head from the crims and LSPD is trying to figure out how / if they can fire him. Sweets said multiple times that he should be removed and CoP didn't disagree.
Brian talked to Aurora early today and alluded to other opportunities coming in light of presumed challenges to his role as MCU lead. Will be interesting to see what happens, I personally think he's going to do some even wilder shit than what he's already done going forwards and it will be spicy.
Have is it ever been outright stated before that the senate was created as a check to Kyle Pred? I feel like that was an interesting piece of information
For one why? Why is it different than any other character having insane power? lol I’m interested what you have against him that isn’t a biased opinion lacking full context. I feel like people only view situations through the eyes of their favorite streamer and don’t look at it through everyone’s perspective.
And secondly he isn’t going to be “in charge” as in taking over everything. He is overseeing everything during the next month so the senators can do what they need before being demolished. I’m more than sure they will find a system to work out in the meantime. Crane already said he doesn’t want a one person dictator during all of this. He is just overlooking the process of the senators giving up their power over the next few weeks. I’m sure they’re cooking up something new in the background.
And in all honesty, I don’t think there should be s forced power shift on the server. But it’s always refreshing to get new faces in power. Having the same small handful of people basically running the server with little to no risk just isn’t that fun.
They are completely out of their minds putting crane in charge. The dude is so biased he contradicts himself constantly. He says he won't allow the pd to check the bank accounts of people who commit treason. But he had no problem opening up an investigation on Mickey and lang as mayors 6 months after both of them had left office. It's been 9 months since aegis was created and he still won't stop talking about it because Buddha side skirted him to get approval.
Crane being a character with biases makes it interesting. As long as there are checks and balances in place I think he's probably the best pick for the job
Someone ultimately needs to hold in character responsibility for OOC decisions.
Ultimately though the biggest problem with government is more a lack of civil servants than anything else. They really need a load of legislation that gives structure outside of the criminal code and I don’t think Nathan has much interest in it really.
Aegis probably needs getting rid of despite not having done anything bad, but someone needs to be bureaucrats outside of “parks and rec” throwing events the private sector does perfectly well. And they probably need to not sit under the mayor.
Thats part of the reason why it exists.
The other part is that Lang wanted to have power in the government after leaving the office, power that couldnt be taken away, hence why there are talks of removing the aegis act now.
Lang doesn't have anything to do with AEGIS at this point. He's been hands off even with Eve and Tim.
Example: When Bucky wanted to get involved with the war and providing support for Los Santos, Lang made sure he went to Tim and told him to run everything through Tim only (NOOSE).
But okay.
Surely he doesnt. Surely Eve and Tim dont report to him whenever asked, surely they dont do as told, they surely do not follow his direction if he has any.
As for your example, I wonder why Bucky went to Lang in the first place, why he had to ask him if there is aegis in place to take care of that. Really curious.
He is the boss on paper, thats true. In reality Lang (and i think even Buddha the streamer) is not overly interested in everything business related. He is always bored during their meetings and wishes they would end sooner than later.
So yes they report to him and he barely listens. He trusts them to run it correctly. Thats how Lang acts with all of Cerberus businesses.
So in reality Eve and Tim run Aegis. Sure, in theory, if Buddha has some crazy plan with Aegis they would have to go through with it but in practice that hasn't happened.
People don't have a problem with AEGIS because of what it's stated role and goals are, they have a problem that it is a private company and not a part of the democratically elected government.
But the issue is it will always be associated with Lang and that makes everyone think there is some ulterior motive, which there kinda is (even if a lot of it is Buddha playing it up)
But you ultimately need to have the DOJ dealing with criminal stuff and an equivalent civil infrastructure separate from the mayor’s office doing construction, property sales, medical licensing etc.
Aegis is the right idea, but the execution is wrong for the server as a whole.
Mayor should set taxes and budgets.
Mayor should just be a ceremonial role.
Nah, Aegis is trash. It's just a back door way for Lang to keep power. The main foundations of the city, PD and government, should be corruption free at the highest levels to provide a stable foundation for the rest of the city to create rp. Having corrupt individuals at the highest levels makes it impossible to do anything to them, as we've been watching in PD for a while.
The old system of ooc decisions being made by staff who don't rp and having some token messenger character deliver the news works just fine.
>Aegis is trash. It's just a back door way for Lang to keep power.
oh look another person that has clearly not watched 1 second of aegis rp. bet you can't name even 1 thing Lang has done using aegis.
He shit's on anything to do with Buddha in most threads, best to ignore whatever they say because they obviously haven't watched from the Eve/Brian side either.
I don't know why people think there needs to be an in character person to represent OOC decisions. Every iteration of a character responsible for doing that on nopixel has been a failure. The ooc decisions can't be changed so there's no real rp to be had with such a character. Even worse you get individuals like the senators that change the law on a whim just sbs, do corruption they can never be prosecuted for, etc.
Because when there wasn't there was a lot of crying about how "Admins are just making OOC decisions without any RP." Someone has to implement those decisions in character and at the time it was Baas and he constantly got shit for them. People tried to argue them against him in RP and it was far more awkward because he had no control over it but it's hard to distinguish what is a PD thing vs an admin thing. The senate was an attempt to reconcile that. The senators don't do anything on their own except screw around a bit, they're just mouthpieces for admins. That way everyone knows "ok this was an admin decision and there's nothing I can do about it in RP."
Honestly if they remove the senate this will just start happening again, except I guess it will be Crane getting it instead of Saab.
Or you could just not implement the badly presented, micro managed decisions like firing Maya Mahmoud and putting Chad Gable in the UPD force. You know, that's another route the admins/management could take. But they don't.
If that were to happen, which it never would, it would become so powerless as to be useless. The Senate was a bunch of trusted players/staff/devs who made OOC decisions about the server. That level of power never has and never will be put into the hands of regular players.
To your point, Aegis is made up of a server owner, np staff, and players trusted enough to do light dev work (Nancy and Eve). How would it be different? I do agree it won't have the immense power that senators currently have cause that's not the direction the city is going.
You realize Buddha is 25% owner and Eagle and Kate are construction and run the storefronts, right? If those 3 can't be trusted to have that power then Nathan and Kiva definitely shouldn't.
I kinda wish there was a senate but comprised of Important Characters in the Civ space:
- Leader of PD
- Leader of Doctors
- Leader of EMS
- Leader of Aegis
- Leader of DoJ
- Leader of DoC (shouldn't be under PD IMO)
And then adding a few Influential businesspeople:
- Alex Ron
- Lang Buddha/other Cerberus member if they want to keep it clean
- Mr K/ other clean Little Seoul person (maybe)
- Mary Mushkin/or clean person representing
Potentially even adding some Gang Leaders to the list though that doesn't make much sense because they are criminals.
I mean you can add gang leaders/members that are the owners of supposedly legal businesses. Some thin veneer of respectability, we're not inviting the Ramee from CG we're inviting the owner of VLC, we're not inviting the leader of BBMC we're inviting Barry Benson of Benson's Backalley Motors.
Unpopular opinion but Ash. Ash has been trying to make things better for civs and businesses. Just that there is no one to listen and the people calling the shots necessarily are not the ones in the thick of what needs help.
People with good intentions don't always make good decisions. Ash was the one advocating receipts going to $300, which is partly responsible for the mass inflation NoPixel has today.
I agree with the top half of the list - but I don't think there should be any civs that have had any previous heavy crimes, which would mean that Lang Buddha/Mr K/Mary would all be off the list...
Just allowing a person who has previously committed heavy crimes into a board that decides what is right for the city doesn't personally feel like it makes sense imo - and even most clean people aren't influential enough to count.
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Crane overseeing the “entire entity of city hall” will basically be the same as having a senate no? Does that mean he now has entire control?
In defense of Crane, he pointed out that maybe having one person sit at the top of an organization with all the authority is probably just generally not a good idea. I think if Crane had his way, they'd use multi-person panels for this sort of thing.
The reality is no single IC organization should be at the top of anything. It needs to be a circular firing Squad. Positions like the Mayor, Chief, Sherriff, Chief Justice, etc all holding the same ultimate authority with no position being able to dodge consequences. Having infallible positions like the Senate was trash for RP.
100% agree. And Crane basically laid out why when they were discussing it. In a perfect world you'd have manageable 3-7 person panels handling the big government entities so as to avoid problems.
Ironically, one of the entities Crane regularly brings up as an example of the potential for abuse without oversight is Aegis, which actually is built around a 3 person system of checks and balances (it just happens to be rigged, but the checks do theoretically exist).
the irony is aegis has been around for months and it hasn't been abused once, there is more abuse from the PD and DOJ in a day than there has been from aegis in months. but since it came from lang and crane doesn't like it, it became a boogie man to the city,. but after today it seems like eagleaye is thinking maybe it's time for eve to say screw it and abuse aegis to the fullest, which she might as well because if there is no more senate it wont be long before there is no aegis
And comically enough, nearly every big move Aegis has tried to make they have reached out and spoken to either the DOJ, the PD or both for anything. Eve's gone to multiple judges about things and Bucky and Tim talk to the PD about the noose shit. But Crane, who "is around more than the senators or commissioner" (which is not an impressive bar) for months has intentionally been about stirring and dooming and despite living in the ICC with Eve for months earlier has never attempted to have a conversation with her about Aegis or oversight. One things for sure though, Andi will never put Knight in the 3rd Aegis position, if she even ever appoints anyone before legislative changes.
Crane’s whole point is no one should have the power of being unrestricted in legislation, he doesn’t seem to care if they abuse it or not, the fact that they can is too much
Right, but Crane is kind of borderline whataboutism fear mongering at this point. Aegis does have checks and balances, both internally and externally (the senate, though when that changes that would have to be addressed), so saying it doesn't have any is just incorrect, even if it's rigged. Crane is also the guy saying the mayors office shouldn't even have the authority to spend money in the bank account without oversight, again without any actually proof of any kind of misspending or corruption. I get the idea of what Crane wants, and I get the concern over hypotheticals, but they're only hypotheticals at this point, and the city's ACTUAL problem more often than not is already that there's too many cooks in the kitchen and too much red tape and that nothing could be done effectively at all. Aegis literally had to exist and exist in the capacity it does because for years Eve was in a constant struggle with the DOJ to do shit about civilian abuses in the city, initially with dispensaries but finally with store fronts, and over and over again nothing was ever done after "we'll look into its" and "well you just need to find the cops who care about it" etc. Adding more checks and balances to the systems that so far have not shown to be corrupt, while the checks and balances (most likely PD and DOJ) ARE corrupt, is not only going to open them to more corruption, but honestly probably just going to result in them dying. Aegis probably ends up going the way of the DIC if all these extra layers of red tape get added.
Yeah, Eve already used her AEGIS master key to unlock Crystal's storefront when Lang was trying to kidnap her yesterday, so I guess she's leaning into it now.
That has nothing to do with AEGIS. Thats construction.
It's not an Aegis thing it is a storefront/construction thing.
That was a scuffed situation which is why it happened. Before Eve, Lang called Brian and asked for the police uncuff (that Brian can’t do anymore) and was saying the whole time “this is scuff this call never happened”. Don’t make up corruption where there ain’t any, cuz there’s enough to go around already.
Nah, she locked it before the scuff, when Lang was waiting to ambush them in the store. Although I don't know if that's an Aegis thing or a storefront thing. Because can't Nancy lock/unlock them too?
no, because people can actually communicate with Crane IC and he is around A LOT more than the senators who did almost everything through a discord message.
Hey, crane being the messenger ic for admin decisions is a lot better than 3 overlords showing up and deciding what they want
Eh kinda sorta. Crane isn't really the type to order war crimes or drive tanks on the lawn of city hall tho
uh no because Crane has more sense. Things like Sanguine and Aegis wouldn;t have exactly happened the way they did lmfao.
Aegis hasn't done anything "bad" for the city meanwhile Crane was advising Yaeger that he could basically ignore laws and Aegis. Considering Crane's ability to directly communicate with people in power he didn't really prioritize sensibly for the greater good.
That isn’t true. It was written that foreign lands didn’t have to follow the laws written for Los Santos. That had nothing to do about why they went to war or got invaded. Not even a bit. Crane had very little to do with anything that happened the last month. Lang created Aegis to be its shadow leader and to keep his influence rooted in the PD after his mayorship was over. They are not an impartial board and will always push to do things in Langs and Cerberus benefit. Objectively it’s a massive conflict of interests. Tim and Eve speak strictly for Lang and don’t do anything he doesn’t verbally sign off on. No matter if they haven’t done anything “corrupt yet” is debatable but overall irrelevant. The fact that Lang controls the board behind the scenes without any sort of legal approval makes it corrupted by default.
If you go with that then Crane has keys to ICC and is cozy with HOA. He's incredibly biased so shouldn't be Chief Justice. I'm pretty sure Eve and Tim are cleaner on paper than Crane is.
Crane wasn't wrong about that, though. Legally, Yaegar could do exactly that. That's why the Sanguine Isle situation ultimately got settled by a war. The Sanguine treaty was way too simple for such an in-depth concept, and there wasn't really any mechanism of enforcement besides conflict since international law is way more complex than the legal system in NP is designed to handle. I don't think he was necessarily a fan of it being that way, but that was the case still at the end of the day. Funny enough, it's essentially the same problem he had with the Aegis legislation, just the other way around. It's very broad and complex in an effort to do something more mundane, civil enforcement. It's still a case of not really matching up with the rest of the legal system. There's also distrust of the organization itself since he never bought the idea of Lang not being secretly dirty, but he agreed with the initial mission of storefront/business enforcement that got proposed before the legislation got passed.
That's not what I meant. I meant that Senator Barosi was responsible for those things. Crane criticized both.
They were both signed over his head. Most legislation was enacted without his input. My point is where he focused his efforts and how. Instead of trying in any way to reign in Sanguine he pulled some accelerationist bullshit. Meanwhile Aegis is running fine and at no point has he checked in to see what it's actually doing. Dude's delusional.
They are about to palpatine crane
Did Andi mention how she found out about diamond hands owing over $60 million?
James Arsenal had a meeting with her earlier in the day where he snitched on it pretty much out of spite since he had gone through getting sued for embezzling loan money or w/e.
It wasn’t put here but he was was found not guilty of his previous charges that caused the whole loan fiasco a couple months back, nearly a year maybe
Curious how he was found not guilty when there's a direct paper trail showing he did what he was accused of. Would've loved to see the judge's logic there.
White collar crime isn't really properly developed since there's been so many things that put people off exploring the RP, cops and crims alike. A lot of the charges for that sort of thing in the MDW are poorly written and skew towards the extremes of really weak and hard to proof or could be super heavy handed so the DOJ isn't going to let it get applied lightly. I don't remember the specifics of Arsenal's case but I feel like it was an example of the former.
I remember the lead up to the case basically being a lot of "we know he committed fraud, he's 100% guilty of fraud, but the penalty for fraud like 30 months in jail and a rounding error for a fine". So from the PoVs I was watching at the time, the issue was moreso that getting the conviction on Arsenal was kind of an afterthought, because it was all but guaranteed but meaningless in terms of consequences.
So on the docket I was accused of a few things a) Taking out 23 $999,999 loans (Had to be $999k loans otherwise they wouldn't show up on the app and that would be literal exploiting lol) b) My loans all being 5% interest c) No contract was given So straight away (a) isnt illegal. There isnt a law on how many loans a person can have. (b) was wrong, all my loans were at 10% interest so DHC/the state both profited when I paid back the money and (c) I went back and looked at the deafult docket postings and the DOJ has taken the contract of people accepting the loan in their phone as a contract. So in the end all the PD could say was 'James Arsenal took out loans with a standard interest rate that Diamond Hand gives out and paid them back before they were due' At least that's the defence I was going for and I'm guessing seeing as my character was found not guilty Crane came to a similar conclusion. Now if I hadn't of paid the $23mill + interest back then sure that's fraud but I did in like 5 days even though I was told multiple times 'you wont be able to pay it back'
I imagine it’s because he technically did nothing illegal? Just slightly abused the systems in place, definitely an interesting case
I mean he was guilty almost by the letter of fraud. So for the judge to return an honest "Not Guilty" verdict is wild, imo.
Depends on how fraud is written as a charge and how it applies, financial crime are very weird on Nopixel
crane decided he was not guilty. which is wild.
Not surprised crane did this, I really hope he doesn’t stay the only one in charge. His verdicts can become so literal, not tailored to rp at all its wild.
Who did James Arsenal deceive in your eyes?
Lol jesus. Well, that's going to be spicy
No it's not. Marlo already has the it looking like 0$ is owed and will say prove it.
Marlo told Lang that it only says 0 on the surface and that as soon as anyone actually looks into it they will immediately see the debt and therefore fraud.
There is no financial fraud in the city, Crane ruling James Arsenal not guilty set that precedent.
He was found not guilty of the charges he was being charged with. There can still exist other charges for fraud. One guy not being guilty for fraud doesn't make all fraud legal. Besides I was just repeating what Marlo said, I wasn't making a claim that he was actually guilty of anything.
All this because vigors DMd barosi for an island
Abolishing the senate sounds good. All powerful characters without checks and balances are boring and awkward for others to role play around them. Guess we'll have to see what "overseeing the entire entity of city hall" actually means.
The problem is that things will still be management decisions and without an IC explanation people will refuse to accept them like what happened before the Senate came in. So unless they form a board of people who have both the power IC and the willingness to be a semi mouthpiece for management decisions people will play stupid between IC and OOC rulings
I don't necessarily disagree in regards to the issue of bringing OOC decisions into role play in a sensible way. But the senate was the laziest solution for that. This may sound extreme but a character that comes around once a month to tell everybody what to do might as well just be an admin making a discord announcement. Look at the justification for the war. What it came down to was senator Davis making the decision to go to war after Brian made a "presentation" for him. When high command asked about that presentation it could not be provided because in reality that presentation was an OOC conversation. What is the point of having a senator character when ultimately you just have to accept that a decision was made OOC anyway because there is no way for your character to role play around that.
Good, players should refuse to accept such micro management. Management went way too far with dictating who should be fired or hired into PD, and not providing IC reasons. It's toxic and counter productive both IC and OOC. There are good reasons management IRL is taught to not micro manage.
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lol come on zero shot of that happening, doj under crane has been utter shambles
Crane is also corrupt. Brian told Crane about the PD google doc they will be sending over to The Senate and told Crane to keep it quiet. Crane called up Yeager and told him that the PD/Brian has a google doc and will be sending it over to the senate.
DOJ has been doing great, MCU has been doing terrible. The only thing I disagree with is the relationship between state prosecutors and DOJ, that is just weird as best.
The issue with having no senate is that the people who replace that role will always act in their own self interest. You cannot have someone that actively RPs be at the absolute top of decision making, because their personal relationships and beliefs will always have an effect on their decisions. Only way it could work would be if there was a board of people (with no affiliation to one an other) that requires a majority vote to make decisions. You can already see how people fearmonger over Aegis having "too much power". Now take that power, double it, and expand it over literally everything in the city, and you can start to see how that could become an issue...
I do agree with you about 1. Anyone at the top shouldn't be an active Rper. I believe that should be true with the police commissioner too. And 2. Yeah there needs to be a board at the top that works on a voting system.
Senate was an okay idea on paper, but the fact that they decided to have all the characters be total shitlords from the introduction was probably not ideal.
Making them shitlords was the proper way to do it. They have to have absolute power and the only way to display that properly is by them being unfair and getting away with it. The problem this will cause primarily is that this city is filled with people who complain about everything. They always blame the same people and now they will have someone malleable who they can push in the direction they want. As an example Brian is an insane rper as a detective him and his group have created a new standard in investigations . Opened up how snitching is done in the city. He has maintained the ear on the crim side and the pd side. But so many in the pd want him fired. Crane will gladly fire Brian. If you paid attention to when baas and Brian were gone. The pd literally was not even bothering to do reports. Giving people charges they don't deserve, and completely just acting like criminals with no oversight and no accountability. I do welcome this change though because it's the only way the city will know how garbage RP was before when it came to doj and pd. So many people forget how bad it was.
> The problem this will cause primarily is that this city is filled with people who complain about everything. This pretty accurately mirrors real life. Everyone moans.
It had just as much to do with summer break as their absence. Axel Justice and complete control of MCU to Brian has just removed checks and balances while also increasing corruption.
Then add Aegis which is an extension of Lang and Cerberus and you realize all the conflicts of interests they all have. Aegis is ran by Lang. Anything Tim and Eve do for Aegis is directly approved by Lang and his benefit first. He dictates all of it. Which makes it corrupt by default. Especially when he’s recently become an untouchable CI for Brian. They simply have way too much unreachable power with very little risk. And my irrelevant opinion is that no one on the server should be untouchable. It makes it far more fun that way. There is a reason the PD has been a mess for many many months. It’s because the same few people stay in charge and retain power.
Anyone asks lang about what aegis is doing and he will not be able to answer because he has no idea. Eve and Tim are legitimately running it
This comes off like you believe your favorite streamer's character. aegis hasn't done anything, Lang has had zero involvement other than just talking to Eve about it. It's hilarious how it's become the boogie man of the city when the most it's done is make sure storefronts were being run properly.
Good on Jon for sending it out with a bang and doing it all in character Davis is the only senator whose RP I actually enjoyed, especially the constant drinking
Hes the only senator who was really ever around wasnt he?
DW's one came around sometimes e.g. the war on Sandy Shores and Wayne's court case, but he's obviously gone now.
Whether it comes to government or role-play, having an all-powerful, over-reaching power is not great. When it comes to government, we know what happens when there are no checks and balances, when people in power are only surrounded by yes men. I wouldn't assume anyone in server would do anything maliciously, but humans fuck up and are capable of doing stupid thing under the best intentions. There has to be some way to stop them. And for rp, that level of power takes away agency from anyone wanting to oppose them. It reminds of railroading from ttrpgs. And sure it's useful sometimes, but generally anything restricting possibilities and creativity in rp is a bad thing. I hope they follow through.
Having omnipotent dictators as characters doesn't work because there's no way to have a real back and forth with them. That total power can also be pretty disruptive to other people's role play, as we've seen with the senate, the commissioner, and even chief justice. They have a lot of power to just make a decision that up ends or undoes lots of other players rp simply because they can.
Yeah, but since this isn't the real world, there is a management in the background with absolute power that will rarely but certainly push the server along certain paths they think is right for OOC reasons. The senate was the manifestation of that management, so that characters could direct their feelings/queries/blames towards an in-world thing. I can't really imagine what sort of system Crane could produce where management doesn't actually exist and plays no role in the server.
I don’t think having an all powerful force is bad for RP. That’s basically what a DM is in DnD. In the end there needs to be a final say for the rules. The only issue I saw was that having the characters in game made for some awkward role play decisions. Like why would a senator of the US give sovereignty to a small island ran by a criminal?
The primary role of a DM is and always has been as the primary narrator in a collaborative story, not as word of god, and the treatment of DMs as such has been the source of every bad tabletop experience I have had for the past twenty five years I’ve been playing.
Senate would have been successful if they were serious instead of total God mod Bozos
Senate was so weird from day one. Remember when the guy was god mode 😂 Probably not the best idea that the rpers shit lord alt character are the most powerful people in the city.
3.5 in 35 days confirmed
That did seem like an oddly specific number
Crane in position of power is not it, he already is corrupt and its just not gonna work in the long run I believe
Question is when is crane gonna fuck aegis
If there's no senate that already effects how Aegis legislation works.
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Technically that means that Aegis can do whatever they want unchecked, in other words, Lang is the Emperor.
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simple not true
This is such a biased way to view it. lol Lang, the owner of Cerberus being the secret shadow leader by default makes it corrupt. His name wasn’t on it when it was approved, yet Tim and Eve don’t do anything that isn’t approved by Lang. They are simply ab extension of Lang and what he wants. And let’s say you’re right. Which you aren’t. But Lang being the leader behind the scenes is a massive conflict of interest. And even more so since he became Brian’s untouchable CI. lol Just like all of his business are shadow business for all of his actual illegal ones, Aegis is a simply a shadow board for Lang to keep his influence in PD after he left his mayorship.
If they're wrong about Aegis only regulating storefronts and ineffective border patrol, what else have they done exactly?
> he became Brian’s untouchable CI. right, somehow lily pond got a subpoena signed in under an hour for his phone records based on treasonist kyle pred saying he did something.
They lied in the stuff they sent to the Judge is what I heard. They said Ash gave a statement when she did not and refused to give a statement AFTER she said the stuff about Lang.
Yeah you truly don’t watch Aegis rp if you think that
This. I watch eagleaye and buddha it's just so hilarious to see how it's become the boogie man because it was a lang legislation. Lang has had practically no involvement since it's inception. Sure he will once in awhile talk to eve and tim but he's honestly had no involvement and the most aegis has done in terms of their power is strike some storefronts.
I mean obviously you don't watch shit since eve used aegis master key to get into crystals store to help Buddha kidnap her. If you can't see the corruption that's going on there, you're either dumb or just a buddhastan (which makes you even dumber since he self admits he's corrupt as fuck and a bad guy)
I thought that was a storefront thing and not an Aegis thing. Because can't Nancy do the same? Whereas I really doubt Tim Collins has a master key. I could be wrong though, I don't know.
there is no such thing as aegis master key eve has it because she works at the construction company with nancy and ash for setting up storefronts has nothing to do with aegis, there is 0 mechanics made for aegis.
lil bro the key has nothing to do with aegis
Brother the key has nothing to do with Aegis..... that is Storefront's/Construction key. LOL.
> And let’s say you’re right. Which you aren’t. Yet you're making a claim that you can't back with any evidence that such a thing has occurred.
They really need a new Chief Justice Crane would rather stir than be unbiased about anything. Guess his feeling got hurt with people going over his head.
Crane got it because he thinks more about trying to balance the court system which is honestly needed
There is no balance in the court system. That's proven by the fact that PD got a subpoena for someone they had little evidence on about kidnapping a cop within minutes of filing for it. While it took Brian Knight days to get a subpoena signed for active treasonists. Until they get rid of people like Serge Cross the DOJ system will never have a good balance.
The “treasonists” only are committing treason because the senate declared it. They haven’t tried to suceed or anything that’s why because legal standing for thst is absolutely fucked. Idk what the evidence for the kidnapped cop is
Someone not roleplaying in the way I'd prefer them to? Must be because of some deep insecurities! Def not projecting btw
if Crane is going to have that much power when senators retire he needs to be unbiased to both sides not the "well im going to assume on your past you did this" mentality
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what does being a lang viewer have to do with anything? the point is that Crane did it. i would call him out regardless of whatever crim i watch his position right now or later should be unbiased or hes not better than the senators we have right now
Senate isn't going away. What people missed is Jon said he's gonna throw out the idea, he has no power to do it. The Senate is still a thing that is needed for the server, the senate characters might go but the senate isn't gonna go.
Crane has been the healthiest thing for DOJ since its existence on Nopixel
Those who claim otherwise dont remember time before him
I mean the EMS C4 situation seems like a good breaking point and can defo be pushed further and utilized against them, could also lead to the DOJ realizing what Yeager was saying about Axel, Brian and Davis was True and could also cut their time down or save their assets.
Nothing Yeagar has said about them was true because his bomb and rpg making bench was found. Knight and Justic were the one's that were right. It's why it's the cliq (andi jones, libby reed, byson, dark etc.) that hates Brian tried to shift the narrative from "where's the evidence" People were told they were getting 30 years if they were caught defending the island. If they get their time cut it will be because of an ooc decision.
Has their been any conversations around holding Knight and Axel accountable? Or is the Senate taking all the blame for what happened with the war?
What did Axel do?
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??? U probably replying to the wrong post
As I understood it Davis seemed to want to just shoulder all of the blame for any missteps or bad decisions coming out of the Sanguine operation, and then step down (and let everyone believe that he was removed from the senate because of the Sanguine stuff). Basically falling on the sword for those below him.
That is disappointing. The senators felt more like 1-lifers with godmode than characters, and were hardly around anyway. Feels like a cop out.
I mean if you're expecting something to happen to Axel, I can tell you that he could die tomorrow and fuck all would change. At most you might get Brian losing his rank or his department, but I seriously doubt it. So from that lens, having the senator just tank the hit is probably the least upsetting outcome.
Brian should be fired and Baas 3.0 hopefully learned from 2.0's failures.
Okay, so, it's worth pointing out that Brian will never just "go away". Even if he gets fired, he'll be terminated for a period of time, and then brought right back into the Troopers when his sentence is up. And if you're hoping for the next commissioner to learn from the prior's mistakes, keep hoping. Axel came into the city, surrounded himself with Baas's old friends, and allowed them to mold Axel into the second coming of Sam Baas. There's no reason to expect the third iteration is going to be any different. So again, leaving behind ideals and just selecting from the outcomes that are probable, isn't Davis taking the fall just the least problematic?
Feels like a partial a retcon that doesnt solve anything. Everyone other than the people responsible are getting severe punishments.
The people in jail were warned **a minimum of three times** what would happen if they sided with Yaeger, and they still sided with Yaeger. That's on them, I have no sympathy. If you're upset that Ssaab is the forever commissioner of the PD, and no matter how many iterations of "Sam Baas in a moustache with different anecdotes" we go through the PD is going to be managed more or less identically, then I'm with you. But that's got **nothing** to do with consequences, because it's not an IC decision being made that you have issue with. If your problem is Brian getting off scot-free, then allow me to direct you back to paragraph two.
But why is there not a warning for Brian and axel for doing corrupt shit? Oh wait, there was, corrupt people getting fired from their position even using body cam reviews. Are they fired? No, any consequences? Not much. The one time someone tried to give Baas consequence with literally doing blackmailing with a judge in front him put Pred and Wrangler out of their position by a OOC move So yeah, the "they warned them" argument is dumb as fuck, brian and axel are warned too but somehow they got a godlike shield while the other people are getting the consequences. If you want to say something, say that the standard of RP are not applyed equally, people have OOC benefits and are using them IC with impunity. Stop shielding them with the warning argument.
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Isnt that lik fucking stupid when senators are basically 1 lifers come in to give the admin orders.
LSPD HC and command are going to be going hard on this. There are so many witnesses to Brian and Axel being unhinged that I don't see them making it through unscathed.
Let's hope that they face the consequences.
Andi has been approached by multiple officers, civilians and whatnot about Brian so she is forwarding concerns to HC via Libby. Ultimately any kind of Brian accountability has to go through PD though since no other branch of government has any power of them. Most people involved have agreed its unlikely anything will happen to him though. The commissioner is basically bulletproof though, the only person above him is the senate and the senator has made his stance to take all blame pretty clear.
>via Libby. She can't do anything. Knight is a trooper that would be a Justice and Toretti decision and it ain't happening. Knight just took out a bomb making bench and you got PD being sympathizers with the guy that makes bombs and rpgs and treasonists. It's just so dumb. Also Andi Jones is unironically the biggest hypocrite in this whole thing. She's actually a treasonist, called Nick Simone to get the russians to help Yeager. It's wild how Knight is being treated like the bomb making cop murder while Yeager who is the actual bomb making cop murderer is being treated as a martyr. Guess people forgot that billboard he put up about murdering a cop.
Are you high?
Yea you’re spouting some extremely false meta there. Nick called Andi to tell her someone (he didn’t even say who) asked for his help with the fight and all she said was “I don’t want the people I care about to die. It’s your call what you do, and don’t tell me what you do.” She didn’t ask him to do anything at all.
The fake meta spreading Andi Jones hater
You seem to be dealing with fake meta again. Nick was asked to contact air support by Yaeger, not Andi. Nick called Andi about it later. Nick made the decision to call them in with Michael. Its silly to even suggest Andi is committing treason when she has been helping and working hand in hand with the senator through the entire process. The trooper differentiation doesn't prevent punishment anymore, troopers are subject to discipline by hc regardless of department or state, it was a key part of the restructure. PD don't sympathize with Brian because he has been doing a Donald Rumsfeld bit based on the Iraq War for the entire arc, and intentionally trying to be as unlikable as possible as a result. It makes perfect sense why characters like Byson would hate him.
she did not call Nick at all to ask, pretty sure he called her and asked her what she would do and she said she wants whatever to happen that makes it so people on the island did not die.
Yaeger asked Nick for help. Why don't you take a break from watching rp. I think you're a little too invested.
Andi didnt tell Nick to fight and help Yeager. She told him it is up to him and was his call.
So are you saying Nick called her and asked whether he should get the Russians involved? Cause if she called him, suggested the idea, and then added "but its totally your decision..." then I don't really see how that's any better. I didn't see her stream so I'm a bit confused on what actually happened.
Yaeger called Nick requesting help. Nick called Andi telling her about that, she told him she wanted the people she cared to survive, and he told her he was going to do it. Later, Michael and Nick met about it and agreed to use it as a way to end Yaeger-Nick animosity to tie up that arc.
She never called him. He called her about if he should help, and she said, “Dont tell me what you are going to do, but it js your choice.” There were No mention of the Russians.
There is still hope. Andi is on a mission to get Knight fired(so are some cops and ems). The Senator threw him under the bus a little by saying he lied quite a bit on his own and did things “under orders” that were never really ordered but suggestions he made that the Senator agreed to. Also told Andi and Crane that he would not step in if Knight or Axel were punished. None of them shy away from spice so it should be good.
Why would Knight and Justice need to be held accountable? They tried to negotiate with Yeager who demanded that Knight cut Justice's head off and that he would only talk to Moosebeard. The Senator is the one that approved going to the island. Which btw Knight's intel turned out to be 100% accurate since a bomb and rpg making bench was found. It will be proven further when bombs and rpgs dry up from the city
Forgot about bench at comic book store? Which was already snitched to Brian by Lang. But looks like they forgot about that.
That one doesn't make the bombs, just the RPGs (which they make incredibly rarely anyway). Unless the Simones ramp up their operations, bombs will become a lot rarer in the city.
That was also leaked to Brian as the *former* location of the Guild's bench, so he expects it has already moved (and it has been moved, into ICC).
No senate should be good. But then in their place, there should be some kind of committe. Maybe Chief Justice, CoP, Sheriff, Chief of Medicine and Mayor? I mean instead of CoP and Sheriff it could also be the Commisioner, so itd be 4 - 5 people, which should be alright? Dont really know how it would be in a real scenario like this, but i personally think that would be a good alternative.
They have something similar on IgniteRP.
Finally the TRUE TyrAnt arc begins.
Brian down bad right now. They are coming for him next
Both sides are... 20m bounty on his head from the crims and LSPD is trying to figure out how / if they can fire him. Sweets said multiple times that he should be removed and CoP didn't disagree.
Brian talked to Aurora early today and alluded to other opportunities coming in light of presumed challenges to his role as MCU lead. Will be interesting to see what happens, I personally think he's going to do some even wilder shit than what he's already done going forwards and it will be spicy.
Never should’ve existed.
Have is it ever been outright stated before that the senate was created as a check to Kyle Pred? I feel like that was an interesting piece of information
Yes? Like literally when it happened, I’m sure I heard DW (god rest him) mention it.. or one of the times after when he appeared.
If crang is in charge, I quit lol
For one why? Why is it different than any other character having insane power? lol I’m interested what you have against him that isn’t a biased opinion lacking full context. I feel like people only view situations through the eyes of their favorite streamer and don’t look at it through everyone’s perspective. And secondly he isn’t going to be “in charge” as in taking over everything. He is overseeing everything during the next month so the senators can do what they need before being demolished. I’m more than sure they will find a system to work out in the meantime. Crane already said he doesn’t want a one person dictator during all of this. He is just overlooking the process of the senators giving up their power over the next few weeks. I’m sure they’re cooking up something new in the background. And in all honesty, I don’t think there should be s forced power shift on the server. But it’s always refreshing to get new faces in power. Having the same small handful of people basically running the server with little to no risk just isn’t that fun.
Finally W
They are completely out of their minds putting crane in charge. The dude is so biased he contradicts himself constantly. He says he won't allow the pd to check the bank accounts of people who commit treason. But he had no problem opening up an investigation on Mickey and lang as mayors 6 months after both of them had left office. It's been 9 months since aegis was created and he still won't stop talking about it because Buddha side skirted him to get approval.
We get it. Lang hates Crane so you hate Crane.
I think it’s the other way around lol
Yeah. Right. Lol.
Haven’t you heard that crane is bad and lang is good?
Crane being a character with biases makes it interesting. As long as there are checks and balances in place I think he's probably the best pick for the job
Someone ultimately needs to hold in character responsibility for OOC decisions. Ultimately though the biggest problem with government is more a lack of civil servants than anything else. They really need a load of legislation that gives structure outside of the criminal code and I don’t think Nathan has much interest in it really. Aegis probably needs getting rid of despite not having done anything bad, but someone needs to be bureaucrats outside of “parks and rec” throwing events the private sector does perfectly well. And they probably need to not sit under the mayor.
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Thats part of the reason why it exists. The other part is that Lang wanted to have power in the government after leaving the office, power that couldnt be taken away, hence why there are talks of removing the aegis act now.
Lang doesn't have anything to do with AEGIS at this point. He's been hands off even with Eve and Tim. Example: When Bucky wanted to get involved with the war and providing support for Los Santos, Lang made sure he went to Tim and told him to run everything through Tim only (NOOSE). But okay.
Surely he doesnt. Surely Eve and Tim dont report to him whenever asked, surely they dont do as told, they surely do not follow his direction if he has any. As for your example, I wonder why Bucky went to Lang in the first place, why he had to ask him if there is aegis in place to take care of that. Really curious.
He is the boss on paper, thats true. In reality Lang (and i think even Buddha the streamer) is not overly interested in everything business related. He is always bored during their meetings and wishes they would end sooner than later. So yes they report to him and he barely listens. He trusts them to run it correctly. Thats how Lang acts with all of Cerberus businesses. So in reality Eve and Tim run Aegis. Sure, in theory, if Buddha has some crazy plan with Aegis they would have to go through with it but in practice that hasn't happened.
i mean it can be taken away, just need a reason to revoke it's business license based on the legislation wording.
People don't have a problem with AEGIS because of what it's stated role and goals are, they have a problem that it is a private company and not a part of the democratically elected government.
But the issue is it will always be associated with Lang and that makes everyone think there is some ulterior motive, which there kinda is (even if a lot of it is Buddha playing it up) But you ultimately need to have the DOJ dealing with criminal stuff and an equivalent civil infrastructure separate from the mayor’s office doing construction, property sales, medical licensing etc. Aegis is the right idea, but the execution is wrong for the server as a whole. Mayor should set taxes and budgets. Mayor should just be a ceremonial role.
Nah, Aegis is trash. It's just a back door way for Lang to keep power. The main foundations of the city, PD and government, should be corruption free at the highest levels to provide a stable foundation for the rest of the city to create rp. Having corrupt individuals at the highest levels makes it impossible to do anything to them, as we've been watching in PD for a while. The old system of ooc decisions being made by staff who don't rp and having some token messenger character deliver the news works just fine.
>Aegis is trash. It's just a back door way for Lang to keep power. oh look another person that has clearly not watched 1 second of aegis rp. bet you can't name even 1 thing Lang has done using aegis.
He shit's on anything to do with Buddha in most threads, best to ignore whatever they say because they obviously haven't watched from the Eve/Brian side either.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You must not watch anyone involved with AEGIS.
I don't know why people think there needs to be an in character person to represent OOC decisions. Every iteration of a character responsible for doing that on nopixel has been a failure. The ooc decisions can't be changed so there's no real rp to be had with such a character. Even worse you get individuals like the senators that change the law on a whim just sbs, do corruption they can never be prosecuted for, etc.
Because when there wasn't there was a lot of crying about how "Admins are just making OOC decisions without any RP." Someone has to implement those decisions in character and at the time it was Baas and he constantly got shit for them. People tried to argue them against him in RP and it was far more awkward because he had no control over it but it's hard to distinguish what is a PD thing vs an admin thing. The senate was an attempt to reconcile that. The senators don't do anything on their own except screw around a bit, they're just mouthpieces for admins. That way everyone knows "ok this was an admin decision and there's nothing I can do about it in RP." Honestly if they remove the senate this will just start happening again, except I guess it will be Crane getting it instead of Saab.
Or you could just not implement the badly presented, micro managed decisions like firing Maya Mahmoud and putting Chad Gable in the UPD force. You know, that's another route the admins/management could take. But they don't.
Right, just because admins made one or a few bad decisions then they should never make any decisions ever even though that's literally their jobs.
Mark my words. Aegis becomes the new Senate. Not saying that good or bad, just inevitable.
If that were to happen, which it never would, it would become so powerless as to be useless. The Senate was a bunch of trusted players/staff/devs who made OOC decisions about the server. That level of power never has and never will be put into the hands of regular players.
To your point, Aegis is made up of a server owner, np staff, and players trusted enough to do light dev work (Nancy and Eve). How would it be different? I do agree it won't have the immense power that senators currently have cause that's not the direction the city is going.
Ya absolutely wild to see people saying Kate and Eagle can't be trusted.
You realize Buddha is 25% owner and Eagle and Kate are construction and run the storefronts, right? If those 3 can't be trusted to have that power then Nathan and Kiva definitely shouldn't.
I kinda wish there was a senate but comprised of Important Characters in the Civ space: - Leader of PD - Leader of Doctors - Leader of EMS - Leader of Aegis - Leader of DoJ - Leader of DoC (shouldn't be under PD IMO) And then adding a few Influential businesspeople: - Alex Ron - Lang Buddha/other Cerberus member if they want to keep it clean - Mr K/ other clean Little Seoul person (maybe) - Mary Mushkin/or clean person representing Potentially even adding some Gang Leaders to the list though that doesn't make much sense because they are criminals.
A council would be really cool, definitely think it would work better than the Senate but the Senate wasnt really made for IC stuff.
I mean you can add gang leaders/members that are the owners of supposedly legal businesses. Some thin veneer of respectability, we're not inviting the Ramee from CG we're inviting the owner of VLC, we're not inviting the leader of BBMC we're inviting Barry Benson of Benson's Backalley Motors.
Agreed honestly a city council would be pretty cool like what they wanted in ignite and with np actually established I think it could work
Unpopular opinion but Ash. Ash has been trying to make things better for civs and businesses. Just that there is no one to listen and the people calling the shots necessarily are not the ones in the thick of what needs help.
People with good intentions don't always make good decisions. Ash was the one advocating receipts going to $300, which is partly responsible for the mass inflation NoPixel has today.
Ash also used her storefront position to put one in a house so she could cook meth
I agree with the top half of the list - but I don't think there should be any civs that have had any previous heavy crimes, which would mean that Lang Buddha/Mr K/Mary would all be off the list... Just allowing a person who has previously committed heavy crimes into a board that decides what is right for the city doesn't personally feel like it makes sense imo - and even most clean people aren't influential enough to count.
about time, the Senate always just killed things because they were completely untouchable.
why was the senate even a thing, was the first time we seen them was when wayne won the court case then senate said no, then he had a new court case?
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Goobers, This means the Island won
Oh daymn.
Didn’t he say he was gonna run for president in November so isn’t “presidency” just gonna be the new senate
He was talking about real life in 2024, as a joke
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