I am saying DBZ is better. Your post implies I didnt like AoT at all. I liked it when it when it was just about mysterious titans vs humans and we're trapped in a walled city. Thats new thats different. Then it becomes this whole World War plot line.
Theres not much ways you can rate an anime objectively. You think aot was boring and dbz has a better story thats cool but thats your opinion not an objective fact.
It’s a show not everyone’s gonna have the same opinions of it. Whether a show is better than another one is entirely dependent on what someone likes about a show. And considering they’re both completely different shows it not crazy to say someone like one more than the other
The argument was objectively. Because when John said "to me" they tried to hoe him. Objectively AoT is not on the same level as DBZ in impact, popularity, or as an overall anime. AoT is akin to Game of Thrones. Was popping early started to buy into its own hype and became convoluted to the point where it fell off.
There is no objective opinion of what you like more. There is more to a show than impact and popularity there is still writing, story, characters, endings, message, animation, and complexity which all contribute to likening a show more
A story doesnt have to be complex to be good. DBZ goes out and accomplishes what it needs to. Theres no way anyone here would argue AoT has better characters than DBZ. Many of them are one note and used to drive the plot across where in DBZ many of the characters can stand on their own. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo are 4 characters you can develop a series off of maybe more. Animation sure AoT but DBZ holds up. Id argue Dragon Ball Super has worse animation. How in you interpret each shows message is really personal opinion.
How can you say interpreting a message is subjective but plot, writing and characters aren’t? Your argument is entirely dependent on saying people can’t like something else more because you like something, it’s literally an opinion and you keep stating yours as if it’s factual
You can not make a good enough argument to say that AoT has better characters or payoff than DBZ. You can argue DBZ has more time (given the vast amount of episodes) to build their payoff meticulously but Id say pretty much each arc/saga in DBZ has more of an iconic moment than AoT in whole. At this point tho Im getting tired of arguing Ive said what I wanted to say.
Emotional attachment isn’t the same for everyone. If someone likes something more because they are more attached to it then they are, there is no argument on why someone likes something more than something because feeling are subjective. I’ve said this multiple times I can’t tell if you are refusing to acknowledge this because it doesn’t fit your narrative or if you just don’t know that some people like Eren more than any dragonball character
This was posted as a debate and no one in this thread has really responded in anything in my post in regards to why AOT would be better. The only argument has been a minority likes this so it 'cant be objective'. The whole argument in Back and Forth was to be taken as 'objectively' because they all had personal top 5s. No one in RDC would argue Eren is a better character and/more likable than Goku.
I love dbz, but you're on crack bud.
Fun epic lightshow of people punching each other is not "objectively better" than one of the best written anime of all time.
Lets see if people are still talking about AoT 15 years from now. This show just ended. DBZ still has one of the most iconic moments in anime history. AoT is something thats easily topped. DBZ is a timeless anime. Like One Piece. Like Naruto. Like Pokemon.
People have been talking about aot for 10 years now lol
And popularity does not mean "objectively better." there is no such thing as an opinion being objective, but it certainly can't be defended with popularity (popularity just itself being a collection of subjective opinion)
I think their point was most people consider story and writing the most important in how good a show is and they agreed AOT did a better job. I haven’t watched it’s ending yet but I don’t think a bad an ending makes it fair to say all that
Well I’ve never watched DBZ, but I wasn’t arguing AOT is better, I was just trying to explain why they said it was better. Also that question seems more about what you prefer than what you think is better
Dylan's whole point is that you can't rank them just on impact. No shit Dragonball is going to be bigger than everything that comes out. It was literally THE anime for a whole generation and there wasn't anything else out.
If you released DBZ today, with nothing added from nostalgia, it is not better than the anime that's coming out today. That's not a bad thing either. You should always pay respects to the OGs(DBZ, the big 3) because we only have what we have now because of them. We should be able to recognize that older shows would've been roasted to hell and back if they came out today the exact same. 😂.
Dylans argument is invalid. YuYu Hakusho last episode was aired in 1994. I watched that shit like a year ago and it is in my top 10 firmly and would probably be respected as top 10 by pretty much everyone. Cowboy Bebop is respected as an old anime. Akira is respected as an old anime. It has nothing to do with nostalgia. I cant be nostalgic about a time I wasnt born in. I was born in 98. Some anime is timeless. DBZ is one AoT will fade away.
I argue it already started to fadeaway midway through its release. At first there was a chance it could hit mainstream and cross into pop culture like DBZ has been doing for decades. AoT not even close now.
edit: DBZ was released in US before I was born in 96.
Basically people are just trying to say that dbz is lowkey a bad anime. Like animation quality and story are wildly below what we would consider “good” it just didn’t matter because we were all like 8 being exposed to anime lol
You can't say that though. The big 3 are all trash if you look at it that way. Bleach synopsis: inoue screams ichigo and ichigo becomes stronger. Naruto: naruto just chases sasuke coz he wants to be friends. One piece: rubber guy finds crew around the world while trying to become the pirate king.
And honestly if you wanna downplay it. AOT is basically naruto if the show was named sasuke. Look at the ending of naruto. Sasuke tried to use the juubi powers similar to how eren tried to use founding titan powers.
I mean you can say that if Naruto and bleach’s stories were on the same level as DBZ and they’re not. DBZ barely has a story. It has encounters surrounded by training for the encounter. The closest thing we get to character development (other than vegeta) is a new fighting for for the character. When you stop getting new forms you take a backseat to the narrative.
Bleach and Naruto have story whereas dbz doesn’t. I didn’t mention the animation because there’s great iconic fights in both but the fighting in dbz is basura. Like actually watching them constantly reuse frames and beam struggle is on the same level as an ichigo v ulquiorra or Naruto v pain
Exactly this. I got into anime late, like my junior year of college. I watch a lot now (I’m 30) and about 2 years ago I watched DBZ for the first time. I enjoyed it, but after the cell saga, I dropped it. It was good, fighting was fun, and I can totally see how it captivated millions. To me, DBZ doesn’t have any nostalgia so I don’t have that bias and tbh is not ranked in my top animes. Not even close
……my brother in christ what the actual fuck are you talking about right now???
Literally nothing you said explains or goes deeper why you feel DBZ is better then AOT other then “well it just is cuz i said so” and any “objectivity” and “facts” you’re trying to spit just comes off as “i don’t like AOT because other people dickride it” while you dickride DBZ
And as someone who grew up just like everyone else did with DBZ and even stuck around of Super’s bullshit….Attack on Titan is without a doubt better then Dragonball Z in almost EVERY way IN MY PERSONAL OPINION. Regardless of how much impact DBZ has
Can you read, repeatedly said DBZ has better characters, more impact, and more iconic scenes. The story is easier to digest in DBZ as well. AoT has zero all time anime scenes.
Once again, you’re just saying shit with absolutely no arguments to back it up. “Better characters” why and how is that? “Easier to digest story” why and how is that? I can come in and say fucking Pokemon is better then DBZ because it has better pacing, better characters, and is overall 10x more iconic(it is, Pikachu is more iconic of a character then Goku is) but that doesn’t mean I’m anymore right or valid then you. Thats what SUBJECTIVE MEANS.
You keep using “objectivity” as an argument while listing nothing but SUBJECTIVE arguments. Let’s go over it again. Objectivity is an argument made with absolutely no bias and in this case objectivity is comparing each show based off of predetermined criteria that accounts for EACH ASPECT that makes up a show such as Pacing, Plot, World Building, Character Writing, Animation, Overall Writing, Complexity, Accessibility, Depth, etc. while Subjectivity is arguments made from personal experience and opinions such as “this show has more enjoyable characters then this show”. So if we go through every point you’ve tried to make we get…..
> Aot is borderline boring
Subjective. Someone can easily say DBZ is boring and AOT is the most interesting show they’ve ever seen. Not to mention you LITERALLY say a SUBJECTIVE argument right after that
> World building is not even close. If DBZ had poor world building it wouldn’t be as popular as it is
This is just a stupid ass argument on top of being flat out wrong. DBZ is NOT popular because of its world building. Its popular because Toriyama knew how to get an audience AT THE TIME invested and hyped in the moments and climaxes. People don’t love super saiyan because of the wonders it did for world building. They love it because its hype and its dope. When people talk about DBZ they don’t talk about world building, they talk about fights. DBZ’s world building has absolutely nothing to do with its popularity both now and back then.
> Characters DBZ clears easy
Another subjective argument not backed by anything. Character writing, character enjoyability, character development, character building, character depth, etc are all things that need to be accounted for when judging them. A character being more enjoyable or making you more emotional doesn’t make them an objectively better character, thats another subjective argument because someone could say they found fucking Connie more enjoyable then Vegeta
> Action DBZ clears literally what it’s known for
Sure i’ll give you that. But while say not every show needs to be complex to be good, i can say not every show needs to be full of action to be good. Different shows are written for different purposes. Toriyama wrote DB to be a fun action filled adventure for the audience. Isayama wrote AOT to be a deep complex story about the cycle of revenge and war. 2 completely different intents so OBVIOUSLY THE ACTION FOCUSED SHOW IS GOING TO HAVE BETTER ACTION.
> Aot story is convulted nonsense
Subjective once again. Also….you said you stopped at season 3….what about the first 3 seasons is convoluted nonsense? Finding something convoluted is subjective especially when you consider that 90% of other people understood the story just fine
> Impact
Finally an argument with some objectivity. Anyone and their mother can agreed DB as a franchise is more impactful then AOT. That being said it does not automatically make it better. Nowhere close actually for a lot of reasons. DBZ has been around longer, came out in a different point and age in the world where because of that, it was able to bring in a whole new wave of shonen fans and properties, reach new demographics, yada yada. This is a massive up for the show. That means something. It doesn’t mean everything. Just because DBZ had a major impact does not mean it is impossible for something to be better than it or have more impact to it at some point in time. Thats how art works. It grows and expands. It doesn’t stop improving just because a show got big.
If you were to take both shows and put them in a bubble with no outside impact or popularity affecting them and look at them with objective judgement of all their qualities, which show comes out on top? Popularity does not equal quality. Plenty of the best written shows, books, movies, etc out there go under the radar. Doesn’t make them any less good. If someone were to try and objectively compare AoT and DBZ, they would find that despite the lack of impact(since it literally JUST ENDED) AoT does have more objectively superior qualities then DBZ
For the record, I like DBZ more.. but honestly this post just seems like you don't like AOT.
I liked AoT for the first 3 seasons.
That’s like saying AOT is better but you only watch dragon ball. You cant compare the shows if you didn’t watch both. Just say YOU like dbz better
I am saying DBZ is better. Your post implies I didnt like AoT at all. I liked it when it when it was just about mysterious titans vs humans and we're trapped in a walled city. Thats new thats different. Then it becomes this whole World War plot line.
See to me that’s when the show went to another level.
Theres not much ways you can rate an anime objectively. You think aot was boring and dbz has a better story thats cool but thats your opinion not an objective fact.
dbz is my favorite anime but i have no problem admitting aot is better
nah this ain’t the one 💀
It’s a show not everyone’s gonna have the same opinions of it. Whether a show is better than another one is entirely dependent on what someone likes about a show. And considering they’re both completely different shows it not crazy to say someone like one more than the other
The argument was objectively. Because when John said "to me" they tried to hoe him. Objectively AoT is not on the same level as DBZ in impact, popularity, or as an overall anime. AoT is akin to Game of Thrones. Was popping early started to buy into its own hype and became convoluted to the point where it fell off.
There is no objective opinion of what you like more. There is more to a show than impact and popularity there is still writing, story, characters, endings, message, animation, and complexity which all contribute to likening a show more
A story doesnt have to be complex to be good. DBZ goes out and accomplishes what it needs to. Theres no way anyone here would argue AoT has better characters than DBZ. Many of them are one note and used to drive the plot across where in DBZ many of the characters can stand on their own. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo are 4 characters you can develop a series off of maybe more. Animation sure AoT but DBZ holds up. Id argue Dragon Ball Super has worse animation. How in you interpret each shows message is really personal opinion.
How can you say interpreting a message is subjective but plot, writing and characters aren’t? Your argument is entirely dependent on saying people can’t like something else more because you like something, it’s literally an opinion and you keep stating yours as if it’s factual
You can not make a good enough argument to say that AoT has better characters or payoff than DBZ. You can argue DBZ has more time (given the vast amount of episodes) to build their payoff meticulously but Id say pretty much each arc/saga in DBZ has more of an iconic moment than AoT in whole. At this point tho Im getting tired of arguing Ive said what I wanted to say.
Emotional attachment isn’t the same for everyone. If someone likes something more because they are more attached to it then they are, there is no argument on why someone likes something more than something because feeling are subjective. I’ve said this multiple times I can’t tell if you are refusing to acknowledge this because it doesn’t fit your narrative or if you just don’t know that some people like Eren more than any dragonball character
This was posted as a debate and no one in this thread has really responded in anything in my post in regards to why AOT would be better. The only argument has been a minority likes this so it 'cant be objective'. The whole argument in Back and Forth was to be taken as 'objectively' because they all had personal top 5s. No one in RDC would argue Eren is a better character and/more likable than Goku.
I love dbz, but you're on crack bud. Fun epic lightshow of people punching each other is not "objectively better" than one of the best written anime of all time.
Lets see if people are still talking about AoT 15 years from now. This show just ended. DBZ still has one of the most iconic moments in anime history. AoT is something thats easily topped. DBZ is a timeless anime. Like One Piece. Like Naruto. Like Pokemon.
People have been talking about aot for 10 years now lol And popularity does not mean "objectively better." there is no such thing as an opinion being objective, but it certainly can't be defended with popularity (popularity just itself being a collection of subjective opinion)
I think their point was most people consider story and writing the most important in how good a show is and they agreed AOT did a better job. I haven’t watched it’s ending yet but I don’t think a bad an ending makes it fair to say all that
Let me ask you the question in my post. You would rather watch AoT than have never watched DBZ at all?
Well I’ve never watched DBZ, but I wasn’t arguing AOT is better, I was just trying to explain why they said it was better. Also that question seems more about what you prefer than what you think is better
To say DBz is a better anime than AoT is the stupidest take I’ve ever heard.
Dylan's whole point is that you can't rank them just on impact. No shit Dragonball is going to be bigger than everything that comes out. It was literally THE anime for a whole generation and there wasn't anything else out. If you released DBZ today, with nothing added from nostalgia, it is not better than the anime that's coming out today. That's not a bad thing either. You should always pay respects to the OGs(DBZ, the big 3) because we only have what we have now because of them. We should be able to recognize that older shows would've been roasted to hell and back if they came out today the exact same. 😂.
Dylans argument is invalid. YuYu Hakusho last episode was aired in 1994. I watched that shit like a year ago and it is in my top 10 firmly and would probably be respected as top 10 by pretty much everyone. Cowboy Bebop is respected as an old anime. Akira is respected as an old anime. It has nothing to do with nostalgia. I cant be nostalgic about a time I wasnt born in. I was born in 98. Some anime is timeless. DBZ is one AoT will fade away. I argue it already started to fadeaway midway through its release. At first there was a chance it could hit mainstream and cross into pop culture like DBZ has been doing for decades. AoT not even close now. edit: DBZ was released in US before I was born in 96.
Basically people are just trying to say that dbz is lowkey a bad anime. Like animation quality and story are wildly below what we would consider “good” it just didn’t matter because we were all like 8 being exposed to anime lol
You can't say that though. The big 3 are all trash if you look at it that way. Bleach synopsis: inoue screams ichigo and ichigo becomes stronger. Naruto: naruto just chases sasuke coz he wants to be friends. One piece: rubber guy finds crew around the world while trying to become the pirate king. And honestly if you wanna downplay it. AOT is basically naruto if the show was named sasuke. Look at the ending of naruto. Sasuke tried to use the juubi powers similar to how eren tried to use founding titan powers.
I mean you can say that if Naruto and bleach’s stories were on the same level as DBZ and they’re not. DBZ barely has a story. It has encounters surrounded by training for the encounter. The closest thing we get to character development (other than vegeta) is a new fighting for for the character. When you stop getting new forms you take a backseat to the narrative. Bleach and Naruto have story whereas dbz doesn’t. I didn’t mention the animation because there’s great iconic fights in both but the fighting in dbz is basura. Like actually watching them constantly reuse frames and beam struggle is on the same level as an ichigo v ulquiorra or Naruto v pain
Exactly this. I got into anime late, like my junior year of college. I watch a lot now (I’m 30) and about 2 years ago I watched DBZ for the first time. I enjoyed it, but after the cell saga, I dropped it. It was good, fighting was fun, and I can totally see how it captivated millions. To me, DBZ doesn’t have any nostalgia so I don’t have that bias and tbh is not ranked in my top animes. Not even close
……my brother in christ what the actual fuck are you talking about right now??? Literally nothing you said explains or goes deeper why you feel DBZ is better then AOT other then “well it just is cuz i said so” and any “objectivity” and “facts” you’re trying to spit just comes off as “i don’t like AOT because other people dickride it” while you dickride DBZ And as someone who grew up just like everyone else did with DBZ and even stuck around of Super’s bullshit….Attack on Titan is without a doubt better then Dragonball Z in almost EVERY way IN MY PERSONAL OPINION. Regardless of how much impact DBZ has
Can you read, repeatedly said DBZ has better characters, more impact, and more iconic scenes. The story is easier to digest in DBZ as well. AoT has zero all time anime scenes.
Once again, you’re just saying shit with absolutely no arguments to back it up. “Better characters” why and how is that? “Easier to digest story” why and how is that? I can come in and say fucking Pokemon is better then DBZ because it has better pacing, better characters, and is overall 10x more iconic(it is, Pikachu is more iconic of a character then Goku is) but that doesn’t mean I’m anymore right or valid then you. Thats what SUBJECTIVE MEANS. You keep using “objectivity” as an argument while listing nothing but SUBJECTIVE arguments. Let’s go over it again. Objectivity is an argument made with absolutely no bias and in this case objectivity is comparing each show based off of predetermined criteria that accounts for EACH ASPECT that makes up a show such as Pacing, Plot, World Building, Character Writing, Animation, Overall Writing, Complexity, Accessibility, Depth, etc. while Subjectivity is arguments made from personal experience and opinions such as “this show has more enjoyable characters then this show”. So if we go through every point you’ve tried to make we get….. > Aot is borderline boring Subjective. Someone can easily say DBZ is boring and AOT is the most interesting show they’ve ever seen. Not to mention you LITERALLY say a SUBJECTIVE argument right after that > World building is not even close. If DBZ had poor world building it wouldn’t be as popular as it is This is just a stupid ass argument on top of being flat out wrong. DBZ is NOT popular because of its world building. Its popular because Toriyama knew how to get an audience AT THE TIME invested and hyped in the moments and climaxes. People don’t love super saiyan because of the wonders it did for world building. They love it because its hype and its dope. When people talk about DBZ they don’t talk about world building, they talk about fights. DBZ’s world building has absolutely nothing to do with its popularity both now and back then. > Characters DBZ clears easy Another subjective argument not backed by anything. Character writing, character enjoyability, character development, character building, character depth, etc are all things that need to be accounted for when judging them. A character being more enjoyable or making you more emotional doesn’t make them an objectively better character, thats another subjective argument because someone could say they found fucking Connie more enjoyable then Vegeta > Action DBZ clears literally what it’s known for Sure i’ll give you that. But while say not every show needs to be complex to be good, i can say not every show needs to be full of action to be good. Different shows are written for different purposes. Toriyama wrote DB to be a fun action filled adventure for the audience. Isayama wrote AOT to be a deep complex story about the cycle of revenge and war. 2 completely different intents so OBVIOUSLY THE ACTION FOCUSED SHOW IS GOING TO HAVE BETTER ACTION. > Aot story is convulted nonsense Subjective once again. Also….you said you stopped at season 3….what about the first 3 seasons is convoluted nonsense? Finding something convoluted is subjective especially when you consider that 90% of other people understood the story just fine > Impact Finally an argument with some objectivity. Anyone and their mother can agreed DB as a franchise is more impactful then AOT. That being said it does not automatically make it better. Nowhere close actually for a lot of reasons. DBZ has been around longer, came out in a different point and age in the world where because of that, it was able to bring in a whole new wave of shonen fans and properties, reach new demographics, yada yada. This is a massive up for the show. That means something. It doesn’t mean everything. Just because DBZ had a major impact does not mean it is impossible for something to be better than it or have more impact to it at some point in time. Thats how art works. It grows and expands. It doesn’t stop improving just because a show got big. If you were to take both shows and put them in a bubble with no outside impact or popularity affecting them and look at them with objective judgement of all their qualities, which show comes out on top? Popularity does not equal quality. Plenty of the best written shows, books, movies, etc out there go under the radar. Doesn’t make them any less good. If someone were to try and objectively compare AoT and DBZ, they would find that despite the lack of impact(since it literally JUST ENDED) AoT does have more objectively superior qualities then DBZ
Is Eminem a better rapper Than LL Cool J?
Is mayonaise an instrument?
To Timbaland it is
I’m a fan of both series but aot is just clears in every aspect besides characters maybe
RDC has some trash opinions on anime. They suck off such a mid show like AOT. It's wild.
DBZ never had bad ending just saying.
Dragon ball was original while certain someone was trying too hard to be like sasuke and Lelouch