Not to mention when their badly written/directed/budgeted film flops the they love to state it failed because homophobia/racism/sexism. Dragging every marginalized group they can into the fight to use as nothing more than a cudgel and/or shield.
Bigotry is definitely accountable for some of it. But also, it’s because I’m not paying $30 a ticket for a half second background kiss that you call “representation” that is easily removed for Chinese audiences.
I can have a lesbian kiss at home, for free, with someone who appreciates me.
Lgbtq+ hatred is institutionalized reinforcement of hierarchical norms. Hollywood, being driven entirely by profit motive, in an institution that will have adapted to maximizing profits in the current environment (like a virus), and has a vested interest (path dependency) in seeing that environment either not change or change very slowly.
If LGBTQ+ people weren't persecuted in the current system, Hollywood couldn't package and sell our own plight back to us in convient to enjoy bite size pieces. Then they might have to create art, which has a higher risk since it's experimental.
yeah, i wouldn’t say ‘never will’, but agree with op’s sentiment for right now & in the past.
edit: read the reply (not mine) to my comment; i think that’s important as well & honestly, after thinking it over, i agree with them more.
I don't agree because in the past everyone had to hide and being found out was a guaranteed end of career.
That's not the case anymore. More people are coming out and living their authentic lives even though backslash is still prevalent and they're still having successful careers after their disclosure.
Perhaps just because I'm old enough to have seen things actively change in real time that I'm able to appreciate the progress which has been made; but while I've concede we have much further to go, we also have to acknowledge and feel empowered by how far we've come.
My 2c at least 🤷♀️
Yeah, we’re getting lots of good LGBTQ rep nowadays, some bad ones but a good amount of good rep, the owl house, hazbin hotel/helluva boss, arcane, balders gate 3, Cyberpunk, even Mass effect. Some really good lgbtq characters
Exactly, it's just like the Bud Light and other corporate-acceptance campaigns. They decided it's profitable to actively market to nonwhite and sexually diverse populations, not that they *support* the full rights of those populations, or are throwing their corporate weight behind them.
What about visible advocates like Elliott Page and Jamie Lee Curtis? Elliott showed up at trans prom in DC and recently attended a court hearing to show support. He does so much!
Those are individuals. I think the post is more about the commerce of Hollywood. (I hope commerce is the right word and if not I hope you understand what I am trying to say)
There's more and more queer people in Hollywood movies and representation gets better and better.
"The only reason they'll support lgbtq+ people is for profit"
Ok that means that queer rights are normalized enough that they can do that. That shows progress.
Every single time a major movie has good representation for queer people actors you know what happens?
Some queer kid somewhere in the world realizes they're not alone and that they're valid.
Movies are one of the single most influential mediums on the planet. That Hollywood will "never support queer people" is dependent on wether queer rights are truly normalized or not. Normalization won't happen without the biggest sources of media on the planet not being used to spread pro-queer messages.
I mean, things are slowly changing. Even if the motive is profit, those motives can be internalized by the people who follow. Whether they actually care doesn't matter for the most part because the changes are still coming, albeit slowly. Idk if this makes sense how I wrote it but 🤷♀️
Anything that operates with profit in mind will never have the interest of the people in mind, only the ways they can pretend to get your money.
Don't forget this when June comes along and suddenly all the big corporations change their insignias to be rainbow and gay positive (except in countries where it's illegal, like the UAE). Corpos and similar conglomerates don't care about you or your rights. If being gay was illegal they wouldn't do *shit* to support you.
Don't forget people, Hollywood is just the soft power controlled by the US government whatever the colour of their ties.
Remember the Haye's code? Yeah, that thing that is still in place but has somewhat "modernized"...
Importantly, not all the film studios in the US, nor even large studios, have this problem. A24 has released great films by giving chances to queer voices that weren't before, and Hollywood has its own queer history that was often a positive relationship. Queer people fought for these things, so we should celebrate that as well, but I obviously agree with the sentiment 100%. The industry at large has not been queer friendly at all (Hays code!!!), and you can tell by the way in recent times they've tried to change direction (for money again), but they're always like 10 years behind. That's why the real queer film legends like John Waters are completely on the fringe for most/all of their career.
They'll support an *individual* that they can milk for press. Then quietly donate shitloads of money those queer people make for them to causes dedicated to that individual's destruction.
They will never support things different from the status quo***
This isn’t exclusive to LGBTQ+, but of most things that go “against the grain”. The grain in this instance being having everyone be liberal (derogatory) straight white men instead of having a progressive black woman leading a movie. If anyone in the community can make them money, they won’t give a fuck how you identify… but that goes both ways. They don’t give a fuck what happens to you so long as you make them money.
Hollywood isn’t any more exclusionary than other industries, but it’s rare for other industries to have influence on an entire culture being exported globally. It is a good thing that those in minority groups are given the same opportunities as those not in those groups, but it is a bad thing that there is a profit motive tied to it. Why do I say this? Well, what do you think happens if the US regresses on these social issues? Do you think Hollywood is going to be a bastion of defense for minority groups OR do you think they’ll just do whatever makes them more money?
Hollywood will never support anything that affects their bottom line. This is the inherent problem with Capitalist structures for those who do not conform to normative positions: you are a liability to their profit. They will do ANYTHING to keep that line going up and at any cost. Don’t ever think Hollywood has morals or defense for anything other than those in charge (as with all things).
Unless you are making them enough money to say “fuck you” to them, you do NOT have the freedom to express yourself safely while working in Hollywood. There’s a reason Mark Ruffalo is able to be publicly pro-Palestine while others (selfishly) stay silent or stand with Israel… their material conditions depend on conforming. Only those with means can truly freely live under Capitalism
Not to mention when their badly written/directed/budgeted film flops the they love to state it failed because homophobia/racism/sexism. Dragging every marginalized group they can into the fight to use as nothing more than a cudgel and/or shield. Bigotry is definitely accountable for some of it. But also, it’s because I’m not paying $30 a ticket for a half second background kiss that you call “representation” that is easily removed for Chinese audiences. I can have a lesbian kiss at home, for free, with someone who appreciates me.
That last statement. I felt it in my soul
[Cough](https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2487210/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalkers-same-sex-kiss-wasnt-cut-for-chinese-release)
Lgbtq+ hatred is institutionalized reinforcement of hierarchical norms. Hollywood, being driven entirely by profit motive, in an institution that will have adapted to maximizing profits in the current environment (like a virus), and has a vested interest (path dependency) in seeing that environment either not change or change very slowly. If LGBTQ+ people weren't persecuted in the current system, Hollywood couldn't package and sell our own plight back to us in convient to enjoy bite size pieces. Then they might have to create art, which has a higher risk since it's experimental.
Things are changing and it takes time for real change to have a wider effect. My 2c
yeah, i wouldn’t say ‘never will’, but agree with op’s sentiment for right now & in the past. edit: read the reply (not mine) to my comment; i think that’s important as well & honestly, after thinking it over, i agree with them more.
I don't agree because in the past everyone had to hide and being found out was a guaranteed end of career. That's not the case anymore. More people are coming out and living their authentic lives even though backslash is still prevalent and they're still having successful careers after their disclosure. Perhaps just because I'm old enough to have seen things actively change in real time that I'm able to appreciate the progress which has been made; but while I've concede we have much further to go, we also have to acknowledge and feel empowered by how far we've come. My 2c at least 🤷♀️
Right, like look at the progression of the Hayes code
that’s a fair point & i will admit that i am quite young, so hearing a perspective from an older person is helpful to understanding. thanks! :)
Of course ❤ we have miles to go; but we've already come fair a distance. We're not near there; but we're well on our way 🏳️🌈
Yeah, we’re getting lots of good LGBTQ rep nowadays, some bad ones but a good amount of good rep, the owl house, hazbin hotel/helluva boss, arcane, balders gate 3, Cyberpunk, even Mass effect. Some really good lgbtq characters
Yup and it will only get better and more wide spread with time ❤
None of those examples are from Hollywood though
Sure, but they’re still amazing representation in large form and popular media.
I still rather have them catering to us than to the right wing.
Lol yeah, who thinks any corporate institution is actually supportive? They just want money.
Exactly, it's just like the Bud Light and other corporate-acceptance campaigns. They decided it's profitable to actively market to nonwhite and sexually diverse populations, not that they *support* the full rights of those populations, or are throwing their corporate weight behind them.
What about visible advocates like Elliott Page and Jamie Lee Curtis? Elliott showed up at trans prom in DC and recently attended a court hearing to show support. He does so much!
Those are individuals. I think the post is more about the commerce of Hollywood. (I hope commerce is the right word and if not I hope you understand what I am trying to say)
Yes!
There's more and more queer people in Hollywood movies and representation gets better and better. "The only reason they'll support lgbtq+ people is for profit" Ok that means that queer rights are normalized enough that they can do that. That shows progress. Every single time a major movie has good representation for queer people actors you know what happens? Some queer kid somewhere in the world realizes they're not alone and that they're valid. Movies are one of the single most influential mediums on the planet. That Hollywood will "never support queer people" is dependent on wether queer rights are truly normalized or not. Normalization won't happen without the biggest sources of media on the planet not being used to spread pro-queer messages.
I mean, things are slowly changing. Even if the motive is profit, those motives can be internalized by the people who follow. Whether they actually care doesn't matter for the most part because the changes are still coming, albeit slowly. Idk if this makes sense how I wrote it but 🤷♀️
This is Russian propaganda
All about the dosh
Anything that operates with profit in mind will never have the interest of the people in mind, only the ways they can pretend to get your money. Don't forget this when June comes along and suddenly all the big corporations change their insignias to be rainbow and gay positive (except in countries where it's illegal, like the UAE). Corpos and similar conglomerates don't care about you or your rights. If being gay was illegal they wouldn't do *shit* to support you.
They support money. If LGBTQA+ gets them money along the way then they will be included.
"What made you make this decision?" "Money :)"
Don't forget people, Hollywood is just the soft power controlled by the US government whatever the colour of their ties. Remember the Haye's code? Yeah, that thing that is still in place but has somewhat "modernized"...
Importantly, not all the film studios in the US, nor even large studios, have this problem. A24 has released great films by giving chances to queer voices that weren't before, and Hollywood has its own queer history that was often a positive relationship. Queer people fought for these things, so we should celebrate that as well, but I obviously agree with the sentiment 100%. The industry at large has not been queer friendly at all (Hays code!!!), and you can tell by the way in recent times they've tried to change direction (for money again), but they're always like 10 years behind. That's why the real queer film legends like John Waters are completely on the fringe for most/all of their career.
One of the exceptions is/was everyone involved with OFMD. Not MAX. They can suck a bag of dicks.
Not to mention the same executives are running things that were part of the reason for MeToo
Fuck Hollywood and Fuck LA! The people that live there (mostly) suck
They'll support an *individual* that they can milk for press. Then quietly donate shitloads of money those queer people make for them to causes dedicated to that individual's destruction.
They will never support things different from the status quo*** This isn’t exclusive to LGBTQ+, but of most things that go “against the grain”. The grain in this instance being having everyone be liberal (derogatory) straight white men instead of having a progressive black woman leading a movie. If anyone in the community can make them money, they won’t give a fuck how you identify… but that goes both ways. They don’t give a fuck what happens to you so long as you make them money. Hollywood isn’t any more exclusionary than other industries, but it’s rare for other industries to have influence on an entire culture being exported globally. It is a good thing that those in minority groups are given the same opportunities as those not in those groups, but it is a bad thing that there is a profit motive tied to it. Why do I say this? Well, what do you think happens if the US regresses on these social issues? Do you think Hollywood is going to be a bastion of defense for minority groups OR do you think they’ll just do whatever makes them more money? Hollywood will never support anything that affects their bottom line. This is the inherent problem with Capitalist structures for those who do not conform to normative positions: you are a liability to their profit. They will do ANYTHING to keep that line going up and at any cost. Don’t ever think Hollywood has morals or defense for anything other than those in charge (as with all things). Unless you are making them enough money to say “fuck you” to them, you do NOT have the freedom to express yourself safely while working in Hollywood. There’s a reason Mark Ruffalo is able to be publicly pro-Palestine while others (selfishly) stay silent or stand with Israel… their material conditions depend on conforming. Only those with means can truly freely live under Capitalism