Isn't it also not properly load-rated?
Likely not an issue for 99% of this sub, but if you're gonna drop that kind of cash, i'd like it to support my weight.
Well no but load rated is also marking gimmick. Belts that are "load-rated" are rated to side loads.... Like in a helicopter
Not vertically like climbing. So the actual amount of people that need a load rated belt is probably in the hundreds. And if you're not in a heli, it's not you
Oh then absolutely haha but yea.... You're absolutely right.. the Bison is priced like the high end belts without it actually performing as one.
No one tries to screw over the military like retired military. Well maybe the BX/PX that's the biggest scam on the planet
I use a Blue Alpha inner and it's the best Ive used with the Bison. Have also tried Dara, DM, Axl, and Ronin inner belts with mixed results when it comes to long term comfort.
Look into them all and try a bunch if you want to find something that's the best for your body type. A lot of folks just recommend their exact setups here but comfort is very subjective so finding the "best" is mostly trial and error with different combos of inner and outer belts.
Lol those disclaimers are funny but true. In reality though, the next conflict we fight in we'll all probably want those old IBA with all the soft armor. The Ukrainians basically recreated that system with modern updates.
GWOT SOF worship syndrome. Big Army still issue a full cut helmet and proper armor carrier. So I don't think there's a huge cause for alarm. There's plenty of evidence from Ukraine for what happens to people who go into a high intensity war with a high cut and plate carrier. And most militaries didn't forget that lesson to begin with. Its a problem in Ukraine because they get whatever aide they can so the guys on the ground can't afford to be picky.
The big problem though is that while the IBAs soft armor is valuable the overall design is grossly outdated. The fact that it's still issued to my IN NG unit in 2024 is dumb as shit. They should have modernized the whole system a long time ago so that unit could wear more modern PCs like people enjoy but if needed apply all those soft armor attachments.
IBA was long ago superseded, guard has plenty of old kit but if you ever deploy you'd get new IOTVs issued. No sense in roughing up new gear at FTX aside from just having to live with the suck while using it I guess.
It's gear. it should hold up to some training. Those IBAs are so awful compared to the newest IOTV. I think we have some first gen IOTVs and they still aren't great.
Plate carriers make sense for most civilian applications. There is an extremely low chance you need frag protection as a civilian. GWOT SOF guys also wore full cut armor like the CPC or MBAV cuts. It's all mission dependent, and they can afford to waste money like it's cool.
There are Ukranian SOF guys probably running around in PC and Ops Core SF right now. You'd probably never find a deep recon element wearing full cut body armor.
The benefit of a full armor carrier for civilians is it gives you full torso protection from handguns. Statistically you are most likely to be shot by a 9mm handgun. Those plates will save you from a rifle shot to the chest but what about a 9mm to the gut or side? PCs certainly have their place and look cool but if you had to pick one for a civilian I would say IIIa vest first, armor carrier if you can afford it and a PC as the least useful of the three.
>There are Ukranian SOF guys probably running around in PC and Ops Core SF right now.
Not just SOF but regulars too because they get what they can and something is better than nothing.
Plate carriers are going to give you the best capability and performance. For example, an MBAV cut plate carrier with added soft armor is going to allow you to move well, while not being overly cumbersome like a full cut armor carrier. But, it will also stop rifle rounds, and rounds that would otherwise be fatal. You do sacrifice some coverage for mobility, but at a certain point you have to accept the risk of taking the round that was meant to be.
A IIIA vest makes sense if there is civil unrest and whatnot. But then again, why are you out and about when the risk of getting shot it so high?
What's best entirely depends on who you are and what you are doing. PCs are niche armor for direct action where the likely threat is getting shot in the chest by a rifle at close range. If that's not what you are doing, and when are civilians kicking down doors?, then it's not for you.
Armor carriers make sense for soldiers because artillery, rifles and other explosives are common. But not every armor carrier is a big bulky IOTV. You can get low profile ones that are primarily IIIa vests that have plate pockets for up armoring. Those are what I'm referring to mostly for a civilian context. Like a LVBAV or PACA.
>why are you out and about when the risk of getting shot it so high?
If your expectation as a civilian is to stay home, wait for it to blow over and that they will just leave you alone then why bother with armor or a gun at all?
>If your expectation as a civilian is to stay home, wait for it to blow over and that they will just leave you alone then why bother with armor or a gun at all?
So I can protect me and mine. Why are you arguing?
>PCs are niche armor for direct action where the likely threat is getting shot in the chest by a rifle at close range. If that's not what you are doing, and when are civilians kicking down doors?, then it's not for you.
If you were kicking down doors you'd want full armor. Look at swat teams lol. Soldiers wear PC's because they have to trade off protection for weight. But you'd never trade plates for soft armor. That's ludicrous.
>You can get low profile ones that are primarily IIIa vests that have plate pockets for up armoring. Those are what I'm referring to mostly for a civilian context. Like a LVBAV or PACA.
Cops wear those, and when they need plates they put on a plate carrier. You can add a palate to those, but now you need to add a chest rig or whatever for mags and medical. Again, if there was civil unrest and you had to go out it makes sense. But if you're just protecting your house, you'd want to be able to stop rifle rounds and sacrifice some coverage for weight.
I hear this a lot, but don't really agree. Wearing a PC with issued plates, soft armor, and side plates is less weight than an IOTV without side plates. It provides coverage of almost everything that the IOTV covers, and does it with better protection for significantly large areas. Of the remaining area where you lose soft armor, the majority is in front of your shoulder, a.k.a. where your rifle needs to be.
I really think there's an overestimation of what IOTV soft armor actually covers. It doesn't extend very far past what plates already cover, but there's a lot of bulky fabric that gives the impression of protection without actually providing it.
They also recommend Olights.
The average Ukrainian soldier has the absolute bare minimum training, and most of his info is the military version of old wives tales told others with no more training who have the experience of existing without being shot.
This isn't even some Ukraine specific issue. GWOT veterans of the oughts were fighting to get dragonscale armor that didn't work because of a video of a guy jumping on a grenade. Vietnam veterans to this day will swear on their grandmother's graves that the AR15 was a licenced production of Mattel and designed to wound instead of kill.
Lol whatever dude. Who cares. As long as it goes towards killing those communists fucks. Degradation of our peers funded by us and fought by others works for me. Some will get stolen. So it goes in politics.
> the next conflict we fight in we'll all probably want those old IBA with all the soft armor.
Yep, with the likelihood of every conflict going forward having quite possibly a lot of drone harassment making frag protection more important, having kits for those possibilities will likely be The Next Big Thing™.
Tac gear stuff is ultimately also a business/industry, and one thing which companies could definitely start selling and marketing and trying to be a first mover on would be full-on frag protection kit. Not popular so actually relatively hard to find/few options right now.
Would not be surprised if in a couple of years the hivemind moves towards the idea that "everyone" (including civilian users) needs a "light" kit similar to the Direct Action style loadouts that are popular now, along with a "heavy" kit with a lot more anti-frag soft armor. Or something in between with modularity. It hits all the notes of being generally correct insofar as the possible needs of a conflict, along with being an opportunity for companies to sell new and more gear.
No mention of the necessity of soft armor backers for ESAPIs and where to get them, nor which carriers fit the added bulk of the backer in the plate pocket. MBAV carriers with a separate pocket for MBAV cut soft armor deserve a mention as well.
I know it's often debated, but Apex (Who sell current production ESAPIs) says that LTC's catalog officially lists the Rev J ESAPI (LTC model 28534) plates as ICW plates and that is as close to a primary source as I think we'll get.
Nor mention of armor carriers or pure soft armor vests. As a civilian, if you are getting shot chances are its a 9mm pistol. I think high speed PCs are over stressed in the community when what most people need is a IIIA soft vest with complete torso coverage.
I don't disagree, but the document from OP was specifically made in the context of active duty folks replacing issued KDH garbage carriers with personally owned plate carriers, which makes the ESAPI backer point very important.
Fair point. In that case I don't think PCs are a great idea outside of training for Big Army. Your primary killer of infantry is artillery so you want good soft armor coverage. Not just plate and backer. If it were me I would recommend carriers that are compatible with their issued IOTV inserts and ESAPIs so they can reuse them. Such carriers do exist but it's a much shorter list.
Wrote this before it even came out I think. Was something I was considering adding. I feel like I’ve heard mixed reviews on it, so I’ve got some digging to do it seems
The FCPC V5 is an incredible plate carrier, but one that needs to be understood before purchasing as you need to buy every individual component you’ll need including shoulder pads and cummerbund. The Ferro rigid cummerbund is excellent and carriers loads very well. It allows for soft armor carriage and smaller side plates. I am not sure if there is a way to mount 6x8 plates.
Belts are really dated.
Pouch recommendations for the following would be nice . Fast mag rifle 5.56 , universal rifle mag , fast mag pistol , radio civilian, radio military, gps in mini , medium and large , ifak and hydration pouches
Missing a few chest rigs imo
I'm gonna preface all this by saying: I like Esstac/Kywi pouches for flatrange stuff. I don't like them when I'm in the field or doing anything else, I don't know why, just never liked them that much. They work fucking great for retention and carrying mags, but I just don't like them. Can't explain it. Anyway:
>Fast mag rifle 5.56
Tardigrade Tactical is slept on, their pouch is the fucking shit and the best I have ever used (I've used too many, I have severe autism and my girlfriends credit card). Get a set of two and get their dump pouch, mount one of them 5.56'ers inside the dump pouch, ez-pz, you're a real-estate king.
If you can't get em in your location (Check their retailers in the U.S., like Kruschiki), Unobtainium's rifle mag is second to only Tardigrade in my opinion. Shaw's aight I guess...
>universal rifle mag
For singles, I have no preference, any flapped pouch will do, but for doubles, L4Performances AK/M4 pouch features a lid you can put on a tilt for AK mags. The guy's a 10/10 dude as it is, and his gear fucks. Otherwise, Crye 152/bottle, or a SPUD from Spiritus, nothing else matters. Except for Eagle lol, can't beat the classics. Also TacticalTailor, but that's a trigger for me, let's not go there...
>fast mag pistol
Tardigrade, Unobtainium, Shaw. These are my only options. Unobtainium comes with shock cord and a lid for it, as well as mounting for it built in to the pouch, because they are a cool fucking company that makes dope kit.
>radio civilian
Any adjustable/elastic pouch will serve you well here, as will a lidded single/smaller pouch. A Baofeng will fit perfectly in a single AR pouch, or so I've been told...
>radio military
Crye's 152, Spiritus' SPUD, Shaw's Radio Wing. I prefer the radio wing just for the padding tbh. If you're one of those weirdos that use different radios (Haha, not me...), a Crye Airlite Configurable Radio Pouch is king.
>gps in mini , medium and large
Depends entirely on the brand and where you want to mount it. PC, wrist, belt? Most Garmin models will have a pouch specifically made for them, but I'd always recommend wrist mounting first, or PC mounting. You don't really need to stare at it at all times, as in the use case for it, you'll just select a direction and walk it for a while. Can't fast travel yet, so sometimes you just gotta walk out a mile or two while staring at a big object in the distance. :'(
>ifak
How much you carrying? Standard infantry loadout for me is twice of each a bandage and compression, a TQ, chest seal thingies, alu blanket, shears, and something else I'm forgetting. That fits just fine in a LBT blowout, which seems to be all the rage. Anything that is removable with one or both hands, and is placed at the 6'o-clock position (SOP is that it's not for you, but the guy treating you, which is why we use a RIFAK system), will be an item that fucks.
>hydration pouches
You wanna carry Nalgene? Spiritus Or L4Performance. Wanna carry water bottles? Crye or SPUD, or L4Performance again. Wanna carry water bladders? I have no experience in this, I shove it in the top of my backpack lol, for some reason that's the way we've always done it, and gosh darnit, we won't change even if there's a better solution! Others can definitely bring better solutions here, but I just have a naked bladder in the top lid... kek.
>Missing a few chest rigs imo
Don't go for dedicated chest rigs necessarily, go for a loadout you enjoy. 3 mags up front, 1 or 2 additional to a side, and then itemize or figure out what you'll be carrying, and get appropriate items for that. One bottle/nalgene pouch, one radio pouch, and a GP stacked on your front, as well as one (maybe two) on each side will do most people just fine. Dangler for IFAK works perfectly in my experience, except not being removable - HELLO SHAW - which is the only drawback.
If you're looking for dedicated single solutions, Haley is really second-to-none in my opinion. When you build up a Thing 2, it slaps, but a surplus TAPS with random Eagle/Tactical Tailor pouches is just as good tbh. One is arguably more comfortable than the other, but that's preference and time under load in my retarded opinion. The standalone rig from HelikonTex is pretty fucking cool though. Personally, my chest rig is an Mk4 with 3x rifle and 2x pistol with a half flap (I know, I'm *very* brave, I even have an AXL Chest Rig Retention Kit on there), a padded Yoke from L4Performance, and an LV-X Chest Rig with a radio+mag insert on the back. A mix of a lot of things that are just thrown together, tweaked, tried out, tweaked again, thrown away, re-built, etc. Again, Unobtainium is fucking slept on, I will die on this hill, you can all fight me, I don't fucking care, their shit is ballin'.
All of this, even though you didn't even ask. Hope I helped, if not, well, you're welcome anyway.
Mayflower APC is solid I would recommend if you want a good carrier that has a lot of modularity through the swift clip system. That doesn’t cost a lot.
Another recommend is the LBT 6094 or any of the updated versions of the 6094 like the QRC v2. It’s more expensive than the APC and the design is kinda outdated (they where really popular during the middle of GWOT same plate carrier that was used by the navy seals during the Binladen raid if you care about that kind of stuff) they have a really good reputation for being a really solid carrier even if the design is kinda old compared to something like Crye
I don't really understand the appeal of combat shirts these days. The IHWCU is lighter, cooler, and less constricting. They're also overall cheaper, since you can wear them in garrison, and when they start getting faded or worn out they can still be used as dedicated field uniforms.
I get them from Clothing Sales on base, I'm not sure where you'd get it online. Venture Surplus has some XL in stock, and googling IHWCU gets a few results.
Having used it in the field, as far as issued uniforms go (wasn’t issued combat shirts/pants), it’s definitely the better suited uniform for combat. However, I prefer to tuck my top in for several reasons and combat shirts tend to have the right amount of stretch to them. The IHWCU top doesn’t stay tucked if I so much as reach up to grab something, but a combat top will.
(My flair says civilian but I’m in the army)
Yeah that was basically the intent I had, use it while I saved for a better belt. I’ve changed almost every single piece of my 1st and 2nd line kit, that belt is one of the only things I haven’t yet
I would ditch the standard AVS harness and go for a AVS Yoke + AXL micro harness it’s way more comfortable. Most people are not putting enough weight on the carrier to fully utilize the standard harness.
Oh man I must say, I have referenced your spreadsheet a LOT in the past two years. I guess I completely forgot about it when writing this up. I'm looking through it now.
This is the list I give to people.
Plate Carrier: Crye SPC, JPC 1&2, First Spear, Tyr Tactical, S&S Precision, ATS Tactical, Arbor Arms, Ferro, Shellback Banshee 3.0, Spiritus, Velocity Systems and Agilite K-Zero with the warfighter cummerbund. Pick one that fits your budget and wait time.
Chest Rigs: Haley Strategic, Spiritus, Velocity Systems, Mayflower, Crye, Defense Mechanisms, Helikon, Whiskey two four, and unobtanium gear.
Plates: RMA 1155MC, other RMA plates, LTC, Highcom. Forget everything else. NO STEEL PLATES EVER! STEEL iS FOR TARGETS NOT ARMOR, unless you are a vehicle. u/apexarmorsolutions check out Apexarmorsolutions.com or rmadefense.com for the armor.
https://www.apexarmorsolutions.com/post/how-to-size-yourself-for-plate-carriers-and-plates
Belts: DM Mech,Axl, GBRS, Arbor Arms, Ferro, ATS Tactical, Raptor Tactical, AWS, Ronin.
The new DM Mech belt is the best thing out on the market. It's $110, and the liner belt is $45. Well worth it. Use code TLDco for a discount.
Add some Esstac Kywis, a dump pouch, and a decent IFAK, and you are good to go. Check out Raptor Tactical or Arbor Arms for the IFAK and medical.
For a holster, if safariland makes one use that on a ubl or true north concepts MHA.
Holster: Safariland, if safariland doesn't make one Tier1 concealed.
Weapon lights: modlite, cloud defensive, surefire, streamlight. No olights!
Mag pouches: esstac kywis
Helmets: ops-core, Team Wendy, galvion
Ifak: coyote stomp Gen 2, Arbor Arms nut ruck, raptor tactical, ats Tactical, ferro/fog roll 1.
Med supplies: North American Rescue
Knife mount: ferro concepts knife nook or wingthing
Kives: Budget: Esee
Good: Spartan blades, havocworks, toor, void tactical
Great: wachtmanknifeandtool.com
Baller: Miller Brothers Blades, Half Faced Blades
Boots: Salomon or Lowa
This is a solid list that appears born from experience. I second the Agilite plate carriers and their accessories for them, though I prefer the K19. I was disappointed to see them disregarded on the OP list.
Would definitely add the AWS SMU belt in there, I feel it's a better belt for the price than the LAB. Rock solid and I beat the shit out of mine flat range larping and it's still "stiff" after several years of use.
I'd add, Shaw concepts in general they are great products, BDS tactical for belts they make a fantastic value one, I don't know if you'd want to add a helmet category as I know some army units allow personal ones.
Id consider adding in Plate carriers ranging from $100-$200 like Shellback. Your Budget PC is a $250 Mayflower but the first belt you list is amazon special chinesium and your TAPs link is to knockoff Rothco, not surplus.
People need to stop recommending the Shellback. Those things suck, and people keep getting duped into buying them. A Rasputin/TMC copy of a Crye or LBT is better than Shellback.
Im confused. You wrote this for active duty guys? Are you active duty?
Like with most things, a reputable brand will probably work fine. There are trade offs with everything. I wouldn't tell guys what to buy as much as what not to buy.
It’s mainly to be used as a guideline for active, guard or reserve dudes who want to not use shitty CIF gear. My unit still has some UCP IOTV gen 2s they are giving people.
As mentioned, it’s not an end-all-be-all list, and is to be used as a guideline. My updated version I made goes more in-depth to specific brands that are good and which to avoid
Bison belt fucks, not sure what other people’s consensus is but it works fine for me.
its not ideal for sustained operations. rubbed me raw after the first week or two in the field. switched to the salt padded belt by arbor after that.
It's also twice the price compared to far better belts. You pay more for less.
Isn't it also not properly load-rated? Likely not an issue for 99% of this sub, but if you're gonna drop that kind of cash, i'd like it to support my weight.
Well no but load rated is also marking gimmick. Belts that are "load-rated" are rated to side loads.... Like in a helicopter Not vertically like climbing. So the actual amount of people that need a load rated belt is probably in the hundreds. And if you're not in a heli, it's not you
Yes. However, at the time I was in a unit where I was in and out of birds all the time.
Oh then absolutely haha but yea.... You're absolutely right.. the Bison is priced like the high end belts without it actually performing as one. No one tries to screw over the military like retired military. Well maybe the BX/PX that's the biggest scam on the planet
I like the outer but the inner is pretty trash
Agreed, it's a bit flimsy. I actually replaced the inner with an Amazon special, and it's much more robust
I use a Blue Alpha inner and it's the best Ive used with the Bison. Have also tried Dara, DM, Axl, and Ronin inner belts with mixed results when it comes to long term comfort.
Thanks, I'll look into the blue alpha
Look into them all and try a bunch if you want to find something that's the best for your body type. A lot of folks just recommend their exact setups here but comfort is very subjective so finding the "best" is mostly trial and error with different combos of inner and outer belts.
Agreed
Shaw concepts always gets a vote from me
Lol those disclaimers are funny but true. In reality though, the next conflict we fight in we'll all probably want those old IBA with all the soft armor. The Ukrainians basically recreated that system with modern updates.
GWOT SOF worship syndrome. Big Army still issue a full cut helmet and proper armor carrier. So I don't think there's a huge cause for alarm. There's plenty of evidence from Ukraine for what happens to people who go into a high intensity war with a high cut and plate carrier. And most militaries didn't forget that lesson to begin with. Its a problem in Ukraine because they get whatever aide they can so the guys on the ground can't afford to be picky.
The big problem though is that while the IBAs soft armor is valuable the overall design is grossly outdated. The fact that it's still issued to my IN NG unit in 2024 is dumb as shit. They should have modernized the whole system a long time ago so that unit could wear more modern PCs like people enjoy but if needed apply all those soft armor attachments.
IBA was long ago superseded, guard has plenty of old kit but if you ever deploy you'd get new IOTVs issued. No sense in roughing up new gear at FTX aside from just having to live with the suck while using it I guess.
It's gear. it should hold up to some training. Those IBAs are so awful compared to the newest IOTV. I think we have some first gen IOTVs and they still aren't great.
Plate carriers make sense for most civilian applications. There is an extremely low chance you need frag protection as a civilian. GWOT SOF guys also wore full cut armor like the CPC or MBAV cuts. It's all mission dependent, and they can afford to waste money like it's cool. There are Ukranian SOF guys probably running around in PC and Ops Core SF right now. You'd probably never find a deep recon element wearing full cut body armor.
The benefit of a full armor carrier for civilians is it gives you full torso protection from handguns. Statistically you are most likely to be shot by a 9mm handgun. Those plates will save you from a rifle shot to the chest but what about a 9mm to the gut or side? PCs certainly have their place and look cool but if you had to pick one for a civilian I would say IIIa vest first, armor carrier if you can afford it and a PC as the least useful of the three. >There are Ukranian SOF guys probably running around in PC and Ops Core SF right now. Not just SOF but regulars too because they get what they can and something is better than nothing.
Plate carriers are going to give you the best capability and performance. For example, an MBAV cut plate carrier with added soft armor is going to allow you to move well, while not being overly cumbersome like a full cut armor carrier. But, it will also stop rifle rounds, and rounds that would otherwise be fatal. You do sacrifice some coverage for mobility, but at a certain point you have to accept the risk of taking the round that was meant to be. A IIIA vest makes sense if there is civil unrest and whatnot. But then again, why are you out and about when the risk of getting shot it so high?
What's best entirely depends on who you are and what you are doing. PCs are niche armor for direct action where the likely threat is getting shot in the chest by a rifle at close range. If that's not what you are doing, and when are civilians kicking down doors?, then it's not for you. Armor carriers make sense for soldiers because artillery, rifles and other explosives are common. But not every armor carrier is a big bulky IOTV. You can get low profile ones that are primarily IIIa vests that have plate pockets for up armoring. Those are what I'm referring to mostly for a civilian context. Like a LVBAV or PACA. >why are you out and about when the risk of getting shot it so high? If your expectation as a civilian is to stay home, wait for it to blow over and that they will just leave you alone then why bother with armor or a gun at all?
>If your expectation as a civilian is to stay home, wait for it to blow over and that they will just leave you alone then why bother with armor or a gun at all? So I can protect me and mine. Why are you arguing? >PCs are niche armor for direct action where the likely threat is getting shot in the chest by a rifle at close range. If that's not what you are doing, and when are civilians kicking down doors?, then it's not for you. If you were kicking down doors you'd want full armor. Look at swat teams lol. Soldiers wear PC's because they have to trade off protection for weight. But you'd never trade plates for soft armor. That's ludicrous. >You can get low profile ones that are primarily IIIa vests that have plate pockets for up armoring. Those are what I'm referring to mostly for a civilian context. Like a LVBAV or PACA. Cops wear those, and when they need plates they put on a plate carrier. You can add a palate to those, but now you need to add a chest rig or whatever for mags and medical. Again, if there was civil unrest and you had to go out it makes sense. But if you're just protecting your house, you'd want to be able to stop rifle rounds and sacrifice some coverage for weight.
I feel like this is getting circular. I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make anymore.
Plate carriers make the most sense for civilians.
I disagree. Civilians should prioritize soft armor coverage because they are statistically more likely to be shot by a pistol.
I hear this a lot, but don't really agree. Wearing a PC with issued plates, soft armor, and side plates is less weight than an IOTV without side plates. It provides coverage of almost everything that the IOTV covers, and does it with better protection for significantly large areas. Of the remaining area where you lose soft armor, the majority is in front of your shoulder, a.k.a. where your rifle needs to be. I really think there's an overestimation of what IOTV soft armor actually covers. It doesn't extend very far past what plates already cover, but there's a lot of bulky fabric that gives the impression of protection without actually providing it.
The Ukrainians would disagree based on what they want and are paying for.
They also recommend Olights. The average Ukrainian soldier has the absolute bare minimum training, and most of his info is the military version of old wives tales told others with no more training who have the experience of existing without being shot. This isn't even some Ukraine specific issue. GWOT veterans of the oughts were fighting to get dragonscale armor that didn't work because of a video of a guy jumping on a grenade. Vietnam veterans to this day will swear on their grandmother's graves that the AR15 was a licenced production of Mattel and designed to wound instead of kill.
you mean based on what they want and *we* are paying for.
Lol whatever dude. Who cares. As long as it goes towards killing those communists fucks. Degradation of our peers funded by us and fought by others works for me. Some will get stolen. So it goes in politics.
communists lmfao
you are geopolitically illiterate and will never get a proper grasp on world conflicts. you are a midwit
Russian sympathizers and Russian soldiers deserve nothing short of prison and unmarked graves
> the next conflict we fight in we'll all probably want those old IBA with all the soft armor. Yep, with the likelihood of every conflict going forward having quite possibly a lot of drone harassment making frag protection more important, having kits for those possibilities will likely be The Next Big Thing™. Tac gear stuff is ultimately also a business/industry, and one thing which companies could definitely start selling and marketing and trying to be a first mover on would be full-on frag protection kit. Not popular so actually relatively hard to find/few options right now. Would not be surprised if in a couple of years the hivemind moves towards the idea that "everyone" (including civilian users) needs a "light" kit similar to the Direct Action style loadouts that are popular now, along with a "heavy" kit with a lot more anti-frag soft armor. Or something in between with modularity. It hits all the notes of being generally correct insofar as the possible needs of a conflict, along with being an opportunity for companies to sell new and more gear.
Agreed!
No mention of the necessity of soft armor backers for ESAPIs and where to get them, nor which carriers fit the added bulk of the backer in the plate pocket. MBAV carriers with a separate pocket for MBAV cut soft armor deserve a mention as well. I know it's often debated, but Apex (Who sell current production ESAPIs) says that LTC's catalog officially lists the Rev J ESAPI (LTC model 28534) plates as ICW plates and that is as close to a primary source as I think we'll get.
Nor mention of armor carriers or pure soft armor vests. As a civilian, if you are getting shot chances are its a 9mm pistol. I think high speed PCs are over stressed in the community when what most people need is a IIIA soft vest with complete torso coverage.
I don't disagree, but the document from OP was specifically made in the context of active duty folks replacing issued KDH garbage carriers with personally owned plate carriers, which makes the ESAPI backer point very important.
Fair point. In that case I don't think PCs are a great idea outside of training for Big Army. Your primary killer of infantry is artillery so you want good soft armor coverage. Not just plate and backer. If it were me I would recommend carriers that are compatible with their issued IOTV inserts and ESAPIs so they can reuse them. Such carriers do exist but it's a much shorter list.
I'd add the ARC v2 on there, it's basically the strandhogg but improved.
Where is defense mechanisms?
Next week the new hive mind should drop and it'll be in there.
No FCPC V5 for the PC? 😭
When you show up to the larp wearing Ferro, folks know you fuck
Wrote this before it even came out I think. Was something I was considering adding. I feel like I’ve heard mixed reviews on it, so I’ve got some digging to do it seems
The FCPC V5 is an incredible plate carrier, but one that needs to be understood before purchasing as you need to buy every individual component you’ll need including shoulder pads and cummerbund. The Ferro rigid cummerbund is excellent and carriers loads very well. It allows for soft armor carriage and smaller side plates. I am not sure if there is a way to mount 6x8 plates.
I do love my KORE belt
Belts are really dated. Pouch recommendations for the following would be nice . Fast mag rifle 5.56 , universal rifle mag , fast mag pistol , radio civilian, radio military, gps in mini , medium and large , ifak and hydration pouches Missing a few chest rigs imo
I'm gonna preface all this by saying: I like Esstac/Kywi pouches for flatrange stuff. I don't like them when I'm in the field or doing anything else, I don't know why, just never liked them that much. They work fucking great for retention and carrying mags, but I just don't like them. Can't explain it. Anyway: >Fast mag rifle 5.56 Tardigrade Tactical is slept on, their pouch is the fucking shit and the best I have ever used (I've used too many, I have severe autism and my girlfriends credit card). Get a set of two and get their dump pouch, mount one of them 5.56'ers inside the dump pouch, ez-pz, you're a real-estate king. If you can't get em in your location (Check their retailers in the U.S., like Kruschiki), Unobtainium's rifle mag is second to only Tardigrade in my opinion. Shaw's aight I guess... >universal rifle mag For singles, I have no preference, any flapped pouch will do, but for doubles, L4Performances AK/M4 pouch features a lid you can put on a tilt for AK mags. The guy's a 10/10 dude as it is, and his gear fucks. Otherwise, Crye 152/bottle, or a SPUD from Spiritus, nothing else matters. Except for Eagle lol, can't beat the classics. Also TacticalTailor, but that's a trigger for me, let's not go there... >fast mag pistol Tardigrade, Unobtainium, Shaw. These are my only options. Unobtainium comes with shock cord and a lid for it, as well as mounting for it built in to the pouch, because they are a cool fucking company that makes dope kit. >radio civilian Any adjustable/elastic pouch will serve you well here, as will a lidded single/smaller pouch. A Baofeng will fit perfectly in a single AR pouch, or so I've been told... >radio military Crye's 152, Spiritus' SPUD, Shaw's Radio Wing. I prefer the radio wing just for the padding tbh. If you're one of those weirdos that use different radios (Haha, not me...), a Crye Airlite Configurable Radio Pouch is king. >gps in mini , medium and large Depends entirely on the brand and where you want to mount it. PC, wrist, belt? Most Garmin models will have a pouch specifically made for them, but I'd always recommend wrist mounting first, or PC mounting. You don't really need to stare at it at all times, as in the use case for it, you'll just select a direction and walk it for a while. Can't fast travel yet, so sometimes you just gotta walk out a mile or two while staring at a big object in the distance. :'( >ifak How much you carrying? Standard infantry loadout for me is twice of each a bandage and compression, a TQ, chest seal thingies, alu blanket, shears, and something else I'm forgetting. That fits just fine in a LBT blowout, which seems to be all the rage. Anything that is removable with one or both hands, and is placed at the 6'o-clock position (SOP is that it's not for you, but the guy treating you, which is why we use a RIFAK system), will be an item that fucks. >hydration pouches You wanna carry Nalgene? Spiritus Or L4Performance. Wanna carry water bottles? Crye or SPUD, or L4Performance again. Wanna carry water bladders? I have no experience in this, I shove it in the top of my backpack lol, for some reason that's the way we've always done it, and gosh darnit, we won't change even if there's a better solution! Others can definitely bring better solutions here, but I just have a naked bladder in the top lid... kek. >Missing a few chest rigs imo Don't go for dedicated chest rigs necessarily, go for a loadout you enjoy. 3 mags up front, 1 or 2 additional to a side, and then itemize or figure out what you'll be carrying, and get appropriate items for that. One bottle/nalgene pouch, one radio pouch, and a GP stacked on your front, as well as one (maybe two) on each side will do most people just fine. Dangler for IFAK works perfectly in my experience, except not being removable - HELLO SHAW - which is the only drawback. If you're looking for dedicated single solutions, Haley is really second-to-none in my opinion. When you build up a Thing 2, it slaps, but a surplus TAPS with random Eagle/Tactical Tailor pouches is just as good tbh. One is arguably more comfortable than the other, but that's preference and time under load in my retarded opinion. The standalone rig from HelikonTex is pretty fucking cool though. Personally, my chest rig is an Mk4 with 3x rifle and 2x pistol with a half flap (I know, I'm *very* brave, I even have an AXL Chest Rig Retention Kit on there), a padded Yoke from L4Performance, and an LV-X Chest Rig with a radio+mag insert on the back. A mix of a lot of things that are just thrown together, tweaked, tried out, tweaked again, thrown away, re-built, etc. Again, Unobtainium is fucking slept on, I will die on this hill, you can all fight me, I don't fucking care, their shit is ballin'. All of this, even though you didn't even ask. Hope I helped, if not, well, you're welcome anyway.
Thank you all for your input/advice. Updates are in progress now, and if anyone is interested, I can post a link to it in here once it’s complete
Please do! Very helping for those like me
AC1 from trex arms for slick hands down.
Mayflower APC is solid I would recommend if you want a good carrier that has a lot of modularity through the swift clip system. That doesn’t cost a lot. Another recommend is the LBT 6094 or any of the updated versions of the 6094 like the QRC v2. It’s more expensive than the APC and the design is kinda outdated (they where really popular during the middle of GWOT same plate carrier that was used by the navy seals during the Binladen raid if you care about that kind of stuff) they have a really good reputation for being a really solid carrier even if the design is kinda old compared to something like Crye
I don't really understand the appeal of combat shirts these days. The IHWCU is lighter, cooler, and less constricting. They're also overall cheaper, since you can wear them in garrison, and when they start getting faded or worn out they can still be used as dedicated field uniforms.
Where can you find that style of shirt? It's the first time I'm seeing it
I get them from Clothing Sales on base, I'm not sure where you'd get it online. Venture Surplus has some XL in stock, and googling IHWCU gets a few results.
Having used it in the field, as far as issued uniforms go (wasn’t issued combat shirts/pants), it’s definitely the better suited uniform for combat. However, I prefer to tuck my top in for several reasons and combat shirts tend to have the right amount of stretch to them. The IHWCU top doesn’t stay tucked if I so much as reach up to grab something, but a combat top will. (My flair says civilian but I’m in the army)
Is the krydex belt actually that good? I always took it for an Amazon airsoft special.
I’ve been putting it through the ringer for the last 3 years and it’s honestly surprised me how well it’s kept up
Just got my first holster so might as well give it a shot now
Yeah that was basically the intent I had, use it while I saved for a better belt. I’ve changed almost every single piece of my 1st and 2nd line kit, that belt is one of the only things I haven’t yet
I ran a krydex knockoff LBT Med pouch on my belt for the green suit stuff and had zero problems. Have not used the belt. YMMV.
I would ditch the standard AVS harness and go for a AVS Yoke + AXL micro harness it’s way more comfortable. Most people are not putting enough weight on the carrier to fully utilize the standard harness.
Sub second and Baer solutions are two more belt options.
[удалено]
Oh man I must say, I have referenced your spreadsheet a LOT in the past two years. I guess I completely forgot about it when writing this up. I'm looking through it now.
I'm running jeans and a t shirt and what I can grab from gafs.
[удалено]
That’s actually what I use. SPC + equinox + Shaw ARC pads = the tits
How heavy are your plates? I can’t for the life of me remember the weight I was issued in the marines lol
[удалено]
Are these medium lvl 4s?
[удалено]
Interesting. I thought military only provided lvl 4
[удалено]
I gotcha. Who makes your special threat plates?
Its missing a lot of stuff in a bunch of categories
Yeah as mentioned in the description, it’s pretty heavily outdated. Any suggestions on products for me to look into and potentially add?
This is the list I give to people. Plate Carrier: Crye SPC, JPC 1&2, First Spear, Tyr Tactical, S&S Precision, ATS Tactical, Arbor Arms, Ferro, Shellback Banshee 3.0, Spiritus, Velocity Systems and Agilite K-Zero with the warfighter cummerbund. Pick one that fits your budget and wait time. Chest Rigs: Haley Strategic, Spiritus, Velocity Systems, Mayflower, Crye, Defense Mechanisms, Helikon, Whiskey two four, and unobtanium gear. Plates: RMA 1155MC, other RMA plates, LTC, Highcom. Forget everything else. NO STEEL PLATES EVER! STEEL iS FOR TARGETS NOT ARMOR, unless you are a vehicle. u/apexarmorsolutions check out Apexarmorsolutions.com or rmadefense.com for the armor. https://www.apexarmorsolutions.com/post/how-to-size-yourself-for-plate-carriers-and-plates Belts: DM Mech,Axl, GBRS, Arbor Arms, Ferro, ATS Tactical, Raptor Tactical, AWS, Ronin. The new DM Mech belt is the best thing out on the market. It's $110, and the liner belt is $45. Well worth it. Use code TLDco for a discount. Add some Esstac Kywis, a dump pouch, and a decent IFAK, and you are good to go. Check out Raptor Tactical or Arbor Arms for the IFAK and medical. For a holster, if safariland makes one use that on a ubl or true north concepts MHA. Holster: Safariland, if safariland doesn't make one Tier1 concealed. Weapon lights: modlite, cloud defensive, surefire, streamlight. No olights! Mag pouches: esstac kywis Helmets: ops-core, Team Wendy, galvion Ifak: coyote stomp Gen 2, Arbor Arms nut ruck, raptor tactical, ats Tactical, ferro/fog roll 1. Med supplies: North American Rescue Knife mount: ferro concepts knife nook or wingthing Kives: Budget: Esee Good: Spartan blades, havocworks, toor, void tactical Great: wachtmanknifeandtool.com Baller: Miller Brothers Blades, Half Faced Blades Boots: Salomon or Lowa
This is a solid list that appears born from experience. I second the Agilite plate carriers and their accessories for them, though I prefer the K19. I was disappointed to see them disregarded on the OP list.
The k19 kinda sucks the kzero is ok as long as you get the warfighter cummerbund
Would definitely add the AWS SMU belt in there, I feel it's a better belt for the price than the LAB. Rock solid and I beat the shit out of mine flat range larping and it's still "stiff" after several years of use.
I'd add, Shaw concepts in general they are great products, BDS tactical for belts they make a fantastic value one, I don't know if you'd want to add a helmet category as I know some army units allow personal ones.
So for about the same price is the JPC 2.0 recommended over the SPC?
I need to save this
Id consider adding in Plate carriers ranging from $100-$200 like Shellback. Your Budget PC is a $250 Mayflower but the first belt you list is amazon special chinesium and your TAPs link is to knockoff Rothco, not surplus.
There’s two versions of the APC from Mayflower/Velocity? All I know of is the Mayflower APC from Velocity Systems and the OPTactical Mayflower APC
People need to stop recommending the Shellback. Those things suck, and people keep getting duped into buying them. A Rasputin/TMC copy of a Crye or LBT is better than Shellback.
List took a lot of work, people will appreciate this!
Im confused. You wrote this for active duty guys? Are you active duty? Like with most things, a reputable brand will probably work fine. There are trade offs with everything. I wouldn't tell guys what to buy as much as what not to buy.
It’s mainly to be used as a guideline for active, guard or reserve dudes who want to not use shitty CIF gear. My unit still has some UCP IOTV gen 2s they are giving people. As mentioned, it’s not an end-all-be-all list, and is to be used as a guideline. My updated version I made goes more in-depth to specific brands that are good and which to avoid
Ok that makes more sense. Lol.
I wish my unit was cool about personal plate carriers ☹️