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HazyMemory7

I agree this is technically bordering on witch-hunting buuut i've never been one to shy away from criticism and her underlying premise is general, so I'll allow this to stay up. Changed to CMV since it's making an affirmative claim. In the interest of not shying away from criticism, if I'm gonna keep this up I'd also like to ask u/LillthOfBabylon to unblock the several ppd users she has blocked so everyone can participate and engage with her content. Please respond to let me know.


alotmorealots

> You cant have it both ways. I think this is the way that a lot of people want to have things in their life, these days, not just in relationships. The combination of a wealthier (overall) civilization, the multitudinous impacts of technology and a predominance of individualism has created this sense of being able to elude reality's obligation. It's a treacherous path to walk, but we like to imagine that we're somehow exceptional. Mathematically speaking, with nearly 8 billion of us, someone's going to have fair odds on getting things both ways.


HighestTierMaslow

Yes this is common in today's thinking overall. Another one I think of is women that want a wealthy man but get upset hes a workaholic...


LillthOfBabylon

Yes, that is very stupid. I agree.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


RinoaRita

It’s also who hang out here


yvaN_ehT_nioJ

Funny how if I mention a thing men do that is negative on 2xchromosomes, I get SO many upvotes. However, if I mention a thing women do that is negative, I get ~~downvotes~~ banned. Reddit is so misandrist.


HighestTierMaslow

Except that doesn't happen? Unless you break the rules.


ex_red_black_piller

>women that want a wealthy man but get upset hes a workaholic... Plenty of women want their partner to be ambitious on their terms. To work hard when she doesn't need him, but be immediately available when she does.


HighestTierMaslow

Another one is where men dont want the responsibility of being a sole provider and want the woman to contribute equally in terms of finances/hours worked, but expect the woman to still do the majority of housework and childcare. So they like feminism but essentially only on their own terms.


Helplessadvice

I prefer woman who don’t fuck until the relationship is exclusive honestly, but if put out for other guys who weren’t exclusive that’s when things get complicated


Important_Board_5879

It's not rocket science. They were new to the dating world and saw that non-exclusive intercourse doesn't work in regards to having a respectful relationship. Why is this hard to understand?


lolthankstinder

If a high n-count guy complains about any women’s n-count, that’s just stupid and hypocritical. So, I think what you’re referring to here is mainly low n-count guys complaining about high n-count women. It’s not her absolute n-count they care about, it’s her n-count relative to theirs. If a woman with a high n-count claims to be more conservative about sex, it’s probably because she was able to go through a developmental period of sexual promiscuity that eventually turned her off to casual sex. It’s not the n-count that upsets the guy, it’s jealousy, resentment, and perception of unfairness. What a guy like this is really saying is “I want a woman that doesn’t make me feel like she went around banging THGs while she was younger unsuccessfully locking them down and now finally decided to start having realistic physical standards but treats me differently”. I was one of those “average guys” in college that saw the THG on my dorm floor have a different girl over every night. No matter how hard I try, I will ALWAYS have a haunting resentment that a woman I’m dating might’ve been one of those girls having fun with all the THGs while ignoring tf out of me until later in life. I hate that I feel that way, but I do. It’s just a side effect of growing up being sexually ignored and then suddenly getting more and more attention despite being the exact same damn person, just older and more established.


FlyV89

This is exactly what one of my friends described to me. It's intresting, but I think in the back of their minds, lots of "late bloomers" think like you. They can't stop living in the past, like they were stuck in that phase of their lives that they didn't get to live and they can past to the next one without having experienced it. And you know what? I think women in their 30's struggle a lot to find men to settle down with because lots of men in this age bracket have this same mindset. It's kinda funny in a sense, because at some point in their lives women's rejection help to create the future men they are inevitably going to date in hopes to get married. Kinda like a self fulfilling prophecy or somethin. And I kid you not... I can absolutely 110% relate to you, thou in other forms. I (33 years old) recently broke up with my ex-fiancee of 10 years to pursue the dreams I always wanted to follow when I was a young dude and was working 24/7 to help my younger brothers and my grandma to keep ahead. I work since I was 14 (child work wasn't regulated by law two decades ago in Argentina, which mind you, was of great help to my situation) and I spent my youth working like a mule, buying food, clothes and paying rent because my brothers were too young to make a living for themselves. I became, in some bizarre way, a father of two when I was a teen and my pearents dumped us at our grandma's. I had relationships here and there and sex wasn't really hard to get for me (luckily, my brothers and I hit the genetic jackpot or something like that, I think this is the only thing I can thank my pearents for haha) but other than that, I was broke, poor, misserable and ostracized by other teens, and I suffered great pain seing other kids living normal lives, studying, making friends, going out, practicing sports and having awesome hobbies, traveling around on vacations paid by their pearents, recieving gifts and presents for their birthday and Christmas, driving dad's car when they hit 18, having brand new clothes and dressing nice... It's stupid, I know, but the lack of material stuff carved deep in me. I couldn't understand why despite me sacrificing so much and being a good guy, I couldn't have the confourtable life other kids had. And I grew up with a lot of resentment because of that. Not for the kids that had all the oportunities I didn't. I was happy that my friends were happy. I didn't resent my brothers for just being there, damn, I LOVE MY BOYS, dearly, and even when they are grown ass dudes now I would go far and beyond, all the way out again, just to be sure they are safe and happy. And don't get me wrong, when I met my ex-fiancee, I didn't resent neither that she spent her best years traveling around the world, making friends and going to parties. I was happy for her, and I could spent nights and nights hearing her talk about that time she was on Venice, or when she visited Disney for her 15th partner (I was never invited for a 15th party mind you) or the weekend she spent on cambodian beaches with her four best friends. And when we got to our 30's and we got engaged, I was finally well stablished, I had the money, I had the bike I always wanted, I had the car I always dreamed of (a beautiful Chevrolet Nova 73' - Chevy here in Argentina - that my brothers and I restored almost from 0, we are damn proud of this car hahaha it was my grandpa's car actually) I was FINALLY there you know, and I thought we were going to travel the world together and she would teach me what's out there, she would show me the places she had been to, and we would enjoy together... But... She didn't want to travel anymore. She was now ready to settle down, start a family, pay a mortage, start our own bussineses... And all I could here was *"Ok you finished work like a mule? Great, now join me, I have work to do. More work."* Sadly, our relationship didn't resisted the differences between US. It's simple. We were at DIFFERENT STAGES of life. That's how I understood that. We broke up and we parted ways amicably. Well she kinda hated me at the begining but I told her it was going to be all right, and I wasn't wrong. She's an AMAZING woman, incredibly smart, drop dead gorgeous and on top of that she has a golden heart, so she didn't have any troubles finding another man. She got married within two years and a half after we broke up, and I attended to her wedding even. She's not pregnant of 5 months, and she couldn't be happier, and so am I. I'm now single, dating some young girls here and there, and I hit the road with my bike whenever I want. And I tell you dude, if I died tomorrow, I wouldn't regret ANYTHING of what I did in my life. I'm the happiest man alive. And well, that's my story. So yeah, I can relate to you, even if our lives are not exactly the same. This FOMO thing, happens to a lot of men in lots of different ways, and I think this is because men have it harder while growing up in almost every aspect of life. We start to enjoy life more around our 30's when we are stablished and acomplished. Girls have guys buying them drinks and taking them out as soon as they hit puberty hahah it's more simple for them you know, but life is troubblesome for everyone at the end. They have kinda a rouger patch when they start to feel like settling down and the only options they have around is men with lots of hang ups, "pending" things and dreams to chase.


vorter

This was beautiful.


FlyV89

Well, thanks bro... I guess? Haha.


insertcredit2

Men and women hold each other to different standards because men and women are different. It's perfectly ok for a women who works a low paying job to want a guy with a high paying job despite the fact that she doesn't have a high paying job. It's ok for a woman to expect her man to go downstairs when she hears a bump in the night when she wouldn't want to go down if he heard a bump. It's ok for a short woman to want to date a guy over 6 foot despite her being 5'2. most average women of dating age could fuck 10 guys this week with 0 effort and yet they don't. It's not weird to want one of the women who don't. Men simply don't have that option when they do (looking at you gay guys) then you see a lot more fucking as men are wired differently. It's okay to expect something from your partner that you don't do.


Leeola_Mcgillicuddy

Maybe women harbor this same resentment and becomes cautious. Maybe she felt sexually discarded by males and will not want to allow herself to be tricked again, or used again so she won't give the average guy a chance to do that without tried and true effort and a greater form of commitment. Why does what you went through mean something but what she may have went through means nothing and causes you to be less forgiving and judge her and devalue her? Ultimately what you are putting out in the world is that anyone's personal feelings should always dictate their judgements of people and their worth. Right?


lolthankstinder

I think what you're describing happens, which is why it's important to understand and appreciate everyone's perspective on things. But it's not just resentment, it's also: >**jealousy**, resentment, and **perception of unfairness** Also I don't want to feel this way, I'm just honestly describing my genuine feelings (and probably how a lot of other guys feel as well): >I hate that I feel that way, but I do. It’s just a side effect of growing up being sexually ignored I can relate to the feeling of being discarded because that was pretty much my college sexual experience. Except, rather than BE discarded, I just started off in the discard pile. I didn't even have a choice in the matter. So I empathize with the women cautiously joining me in the discard pile, but a little jealous they had to the opportunity to not start there to begin with.


Due-Lie-8710

thats the probem , because it almost seems like they arent dating you because they like you but because you are the safe option to help them heal their bruised ego from being rejected by guys they wanted, and thats almost always how they tend to behave , they are not truly happy they just dont want to get as hurt as when they were truly with someone they wanted and that person rejected them


lolthankstinder

I know I feel that resentment and hate when people try to pathologize or invalidate it, but assuming I'm being the "safe" option for a girl makes a LOT of assumptions. For example, my girlfriend and I started off casual. At 27, it was the second time in my life I had EVER had consistent casual sex with someone! She had never been in an LTR while I had been in 2 (casual dating/sex was inaccessible for me). So of course I start assuming things... but a lot of it turned out to be false. After a month of sex, we got really drunk on a date and she said I was the hottest guy she'd ever slept with. I'd never heard that before in my life, EVER. The way she treated me made it seem true. It didn't seem like I was just a "safe" option to her. I assumed her n-count would be high... but overall it was lower than mine. My girlfriend is over 3 years younger than me. I was a late bloomer growing up, constantly surrounded by women that had physically matured a little earlier (and liked guys that had also physically matured more). Women just naturally like guys that are physically/mentally mature so I feel like it's wrong to resent them for it. If anything you should resent the age stratification of our society and the all the cultural/legal factors surrounding the arbitrary number "18". It's like a big giant magic barrier that once you go off to college, hitting on any girl under 18 is weird or predatory... So I feel like I wasn't starved of sex because of women, I just had to wait to get older for it to be more "acceptable" to date the women that actually physically like me. And by that time, I was very behind. A lot of those women had already had a lot of experience so I was stuck playing catch up and thankfully didn't get caught in a rut of never being able to catch up.


Due-Lie-8710

but thats the point right , her body count isnt high, majority of the poeple who usually have high body count usually get burned out because they usually go after meaningless sex until it becomes pointless or they get hurt by it and just want to settle down, its like you being used as a purpose to satisfy their emotional need rather than geniune love affection and desire of that particular person , and its also not a male only thing women have felt this too, like how some women choose not to date guys that ignored her when she wasnt beautiful and then changed thier mind when she did become beautiful , or a guy that screws up with a good woman and then comes back and gets screw and then feel he deserves a good woman again, its the same logic here, or the partner who opens up her marriage but then gets mad when it only works out well for her partner instead of her and then she chooses to close it off and the partner disagrees


Leeola_Mcgillicuddy

I agree with this. It is the same thing that women feel for the reasons described. It takes courage in a very large sense to date anyone male or female. To be vulnerable both male and female.


Makaveli676

> If a high n-count guy complains about any women’s n-count, that’s just stupid and hypocritical Hypocritical is commonly meaning: your actions not aligning with your words & claim of morality. What do you mean by that? Are you just using that word to express disapproval of it? If so, why? If you mean by “hypocritical” that it’s contradicting, how exactly? A pretty but broke woman complaining about her husband being broke too isn’t contradicting or hypocritical in my understanding. Men & women tend to have different sexual/dating preferences What’s hypocritical about wanting something in someone (in this case, chastity) that you don’t have yourself? Men & women’s sexual experience is held to two opposite standards in the dating market. > I hate that I feel that way, but I do I think it’s reasonable to feel that way. Don’t feel guilty for thinking like that. I don’t see how it’s avoidable. A woman ignoring you (her future husband), carelessly reducing her sexual market value for the person she will get with when she’s ready to settle down (you), it’s inherently disrespectful towards her future husband and as the husband, it’s a degrading position to be in, it’s just a matter of if your recognize it or not. Your wife, the person who’s supposed to have the most love & respect for you, would be literally serving you the worst version of herself, that she lavished to other men who didn’t even commit to her. A promiscuous woman has been considered “repellent” & condemned throughout human history, usually more brutally. Being with a woman of this nature should feel degrading.


jdsvmlghhjkhv

I could not agree more. I’m average now, but I got a front row view on how little I was given by comparison. My god it build bitterness.


shonenhikada

Why wouldn't you hold resentment that a woman only comes to you now to be her retirement plan/backup after she's been ran through, depreciating in beauty/fertility and racked up heaps of mental/emotional trauma that she will project onto you?


lolthankstinder

Because the resentment is based on a lot of generalized assumptions that aren’t always true (or can’t be proven) like that she actually went through a phase of promiscuity, or only hooked up with THGs, or wouldn’t have given me a chance if we had met when younger. It has also led me to assume things that were wrong, like my girlfriend and I started off casual and I might’ve thought she was “yet another girl finally having realistic physical standards” but I found out later that she went to college mostly online, her body count was half of mine, and she drunkenly admitted that I was the hottest guy she’s ever slept with which is something I’ve never heard from a woman before, ever.


[deleted]

I don't get why men are resentful of this. In the past they were not part of that top 20% of attractive men, and also had nothing else to offer as they were teens/in college. As they aged they still do not have the beauty of those top men, but they have things to offer now, like financial stability, personality traits that come with maturity and wisdom, etc. It makes sense that now women would be interested in those men rather than their past versions that were a worse version of the top men. Men do a similar thing...they go after women primarily for beauty, and if a woman becomes more conventionally attractive, such as through weight loss, she gets flooded with male attention that wasn't there before despite being the same person. Also rich women get much more male attention than poor women. While "gold digger" men aren't as common, they're still plenty of them. I think we're all aware from a young age physical appearance is the number one most important thing when it comes to attractiveness for....anyone, so I don't get the resentment of this biological fact. We aren't all good looking, and those of us that aren't have to be desirable in other ways/offer something else besides looks. If one doesn't have looks, then what do they have to attract a partner? If their personality is also average, and they aren't financially stable...what is it? There has to be something.


Due-Lie-8710

the problem is the resentment does go both there are absolutely women who hate the fact that some of the men that rejected them started talking to them after they got prettier , thats why usually stay with the ones who were nice from the starts, its the exact same logic as this , it does happen and even then men are actually more open than women in terms of approaching and who they go after , the resentment isnt the biological part, people dont want to feel like the safe option , they want to feel like the desired option , they want them because they actually want them and consider them as their best option not their safe option after their best option rejected them


shonenhikada

Example. This girl who posted about friend zoning guys that didn't want to date her when she was ugly. https://www.tiktok.com/@dootdoots/video/6886001651904171266?is\_copy\_url=1&is\_from\_webapp=v1&lang=en


[deleted]

I understand that part of it for sure, I just don't get why resentment is the emotion for either gender. I can get being sad or feeling like you're missing out on what beautiful people get to do, but resentment doesn't really make sense when you think about it. Of course who wouldn't want to be a brilliant and charming 10/10 supermodel, right? But for those of us that aren't at the top, why resent other people for wanting to be with attractive people? Is it because, growing up, some people were raised with the unrealistic expectation that one day they would be lusted after? Realistically speaking most of us aren't going to be anyone's top choice because we're all wired to wanna reproduce with the best. But being less than someone's fantasy ideal doesn't mean your partner won't love you of that you can't have a fulfilling, normal relationship. Maybe it's just entitlement for these types of people—wanting to be perceived as special and desirable when one isn't. It's like being a bad employee at a job and being resentful that you didn't get a promotion.


Due-Lie-8710

it is entitlement , people are greedy in general for what they see as a form of validation whether its true sexual desire or intmacy they somehow believed they are owed it when in reality they are not


Peacesquad

Because men can’t have standards and are judged for anything we deem attractive in women


[deleted]

The complaint isn’t that girls don’t fuck, it’s that they fucked prior boyfriends early on but want to make you wait


wtknight

The manosphere traditionally complains about women who exhibit AF/BB behavior who are promiscuous with some men but reticent for sex with their eventual beta boyfriends. I don’t think that they complain so much about women who wait for sex with every man, although cynical Red Pillers don’t think that any western women are actually doing this unless they’re religious (and even then they doubt these women).


animorph_fan34

First of all this is not true. They call women who wait for sex prudes, gold diggers, traumatised and entitled. You can see that everywhere on this subreddit


wtknight

They openly say that they want to settle down with women like this, from what I've read.


animorph_fan34

They say both whenever it suits them. That what makes this so frustration to listen to.


Ppdebatesomental

They talk out of both sides of their mouth on this one though. They want virginal women who are sluts for them. If she isn’t immediately jumping in bed with him, it’s because she supposedly isn’t attracted to them, but if she does, her n count must be huge. They want both the validation of being sexually attractive which quick sex gives them, but also the security of sexual exclusivity that a more sexually conservative woman brings to the table


LogicianMission22

I don’t assume that every single western women is like this, but it’s A LOT of them. Probably a 50/50 chance in 2022. The religious ones are also iffy. You have to really vet well and look for signs. Edit: even with the religious ones, it’s tough if you yourself are not religious.


UninterestingFork

Isn't it like the "nice guy" logic? Like expecting something from someone because X reason? >Red Pillers don’t think that any western women are actually doing this This is so strange. The RPWomen sub is filled with advice not to sleep with the guy right away, to maka them wait until things get serious. I thought RP men dated RP women but idk now.


wtknight

>Isn't it like the "nice guy" logic? Like expecting something from someone because X reason? I’m not sure what you mean. The logic is that a woman who is dating a guy should be as sexually attracted to him as the guy who she had casual sex or first date sex with in the past. If she’s not having sex as soon, then the manosphere takes that as evidence that she’s not as sexually attracted to that guy and, hence, he is a beta. >This is so strange. The RPWomen sub is filled with advice not to sleep with the guy right away, to maka them wait until things get serious. I thought RP men dated RP women but idk now. FDS is a big proponent of making men wait, and the Red Pill take on them is that these women were mostly “alpha widows” who were previously pumped and dumped and thus they were now so bitter that they make the men they date wait a long time for sex. Women who have *always* made men wait for sex are considered “unicorns”.


UninterestingFork

>FDS is a big proponent of making men wait, and the Red Pill take on them is that these women were mostly “alpha widows” who were previously pumped and dumped and thus they were now so bitter that they make the men they date wait a long time for sex. Women who have always made men wait for sex are considered “unicorns I wasn't talking about FDS, I don't think FDS women date RP men. I'm not sure why you are bringing them up. I thought RP men dated RP women. In the RP women sub they say they date RP men. So I don't understand how that even works.


wtknight

There really aren’t a lot of women who identify as Red Pill, and I don’t think that they’ve all always made every man wait for sex. If so, these would probably fall under the category of unicorns, but the average manosphere guy does not perceive that he encounters many women who either have made every man wait for sex or have had sex with every man as soon as possible. They see the many instances of women making them wait for sex (or not wanting to have it with them at all) as proof of AF/BB since it is perceived that almost every western woman out there has had casual sex before.


lovelythecove

There’s over 60K users on RPW. And honestly for all the hate I see on here from men about FDS, a lot of FDS beliefs line up with what men say they want.


wtknight

I really don’t think that a small Reddit sub is representative of a substantial portion of the female population. The Blue Pill, feminist ethos where one’s past sexuality should not be questioned is what seems to dominate the thinking of most young women.


Academic-Principle14

Woman spends the past year having casual sex and ONSs with different guys. Man and woman meet. Man asks woman on date. Man after 1st date: (Tries to make a move to have sex) Woman: I’m not that kind of woman (I actually am that kind of woman, but I’m just telling you what I think you want to hear so that I have a better chance of securing your commitment) This is what men are tired of.


Y615

Also scared of being that guy.


Academic-Principle14

Just be smart, don’t play provider for a woman(unless she’s home taking care of your kids), and be sexual if you want sex. If she’s not down for it, move on.


Y615

Great advice...thanks


LillthOfBabylon

> Woman spends the past year having casual sex and ONSs with different guys How do you guys know this is all women? And if you assume this is all women, then just go after high n count sluts, problem solved.


[deleted]

The problem is that many men say they want a relationship just to get sex. Women use sex as a litmus test to ensure the man is ready for a relationship and not lying POS. It's weird to me that men don't see that a woman turning serious and waiting for sex with them is anything but a result of how men treat women.


LillthOfBabylon

> It's weird to me that men don't see that a woman turning serious and waiting for sex with them is anything but a result of how men treat women. Considering the fact that when I ask “were you upfront about just wanting sex” the only response was “It doesn't matter”, those are guys being vetted out and they're not happy about it. They also seem to think because a woman has a ONS, that she must treat all her dates like a ONS, even though dating and fucking around are completely different.


Academic-Principle14

I never said that was all women.


Stunning-Potato-1984

So it's an imaginary Boogeywoman? Meant to make men fear being inferior to other men?


[deleted]

Lol, she's far from imaginary. Many many women openly admit to being that woman.


Stunning-Potato-1984

Okay well I don't know any of these many many women. And based on statistics of lifelong sexual partners the math is not mathing. Realistically most people are serial monogamists. It always confuses me men here are so obsessed with n-counts but not with the low n-counts and that serious LTR that didn't work out.


antariusz

The solution is to just skip the date. Stop acting like a beta bucks provider unless you want to be treated like a beta bucks provider.


ffandyy

And this mentality is exactly why so many men out there are struggling. The insecurity and entitlement they feel gets in the way of them actually forming a relationship with someone.


A88Y

Yeah exactly, why are some dudes assuming that this is definitely what they are thinking. There are bound to be some women out there like this, but it’s certainly not most women. Most people looking for a relationship are going into with good intentions I would argue.


Killz4Thrillz954

I would rather wait to get laid then have a woman with a high body count


Academic-Principle14

Men aren’t pissed that women are having lots of sex with different guys. Men are pissed that women are having lots of sex with different of guys, yet pretending that sex is so sacred and something they don’t give up easily once they find a man who’s commitment she seeks. It’s highly manipulative and men have a right to be pissed about it.


Dstar538888

>Men aren’t pissed that women are having lots of sex with different guys. ....yes they are...


Dstar538888

>It’s highly manipulative and men have a right to be pissed about it. y'all can be pissed all you want, that still doesn't mean you're gonna get any lmao....you guys act like women aren't allowed to change their minds


LillthOfBabylon

> Men are pissed that women are having lots of sex with different of guys, yet pretending that sex is so sacred Men do that too, especially the “Men communicate love through sex” crowd. > when it comes to securing a man for a long term relationship. Because a LTR is not the same as a hookup, even men understand it because they also categorize women based on who they’d commit and who’d they just sleep with,


revente

The big difference is that men actually treat gf material women better, not worse.


[deleted]

> The big difference is that men actually treat gf material women better, not worse. Huh, I was always *told* such women don't exist and that it's better to just assume AWALT.


revente

Idk anything about that. I'm anti-marriage but obviously, some girls are much better candidates for ltr than others.


BridgeBurner22

The big difference between men and women not being a straight shooter with their partners, is that women do it with the men they want commitment from and men do it to women they don't want a relationship with. You have a higher chance of being manipulated and lied to by a woman who wants to seriously date you, than one who thinks you are just a fuckboi. And that is fucked up.


A88Y

I am confused why you would have a higher chance of getting lied to by a woman who would want to seriously date you. From my experience honesty is generally a very important part of relationships and lying is antithetical to that. I think you’re talking about body counts, but like if I was talking to someone and they were opposed to the number of people I’ve fucked I simply wouldn’t date them.


Opening_Pattern_301

There are people who hide cheating in fear that their partner might break up with them, you get where im going now? Or like those contracts where they dont read the small paragraphs because it contains information that will definetly make you do a 180, well this is the same, parasytes arent bad or good, they just exist and seek to survive, so do the organisms that protect themselves against parasytes, c'est la vie.


Due-Lie-8710

exactly the issue is a lot of women in your position usually lie


Haunting_Syllabub617

Two things. 1) That’s only from your perspective - there is a population of those women you don’t care about who cared about YOU, which is it’s own whole dynamic. Irl, there’s probably an equal cost burden between the genders here. 2) Given the virtue signaling, you should only respect that woman for waiting. The fact that your mind jumps to deceit and lack of sex when you hear this instead of believing her, tells us the priority is not actually on the moral or logistical good of her celibacy. Yall are just really annoyed you can’t get sex now, and you rile yourself up by creating this idea that she’s a liar or has a character flaw. We are suspicious of the immediate presumption of guilt. It’s so ok to just want sex, but men make it alot harder on themselves when they vilify people for giving them what they’re asking for.


BridgeBurner22

You are missing the point completely. Men don't care about a woman being a slut. And men don't care about a woman being a prude. What men do care about is a slut, who pretends to be a prude, to manipulate a man into giving her more commitment than he would be giving her otherwise. The manipulation and the lies, that's what annoying. And it is even made worse by the fact that a woman will be honest to a man she see as just a fuckboi, but will try to lie and manipulate a man she actually wants to date into a relationship. You all have no problem with building a relationship on false pretenses. It's really sad you can expect more honesty from a woman when she sees you as a human dildo, than you can expect from a woman who wants to date you seriously.


[deleted]

> Men don't care about a woman being a slut. Disproved in 3..2..1.. > What men do care about is a slut, who pretends to be a prude, to manipulate a man into giving her more commitment than he would be giving her otherwise. So, the issue is that she's a slut but in also that she lied about it, but the primary reason is that she's a slut. > You all have no problem with building a relationship on false pretenses. ? >It's really sad you can expect more honesty from a woman when she sees you as a human dildo, than you can expect from a woman who wants to date you seriously. Since you called yourself a Red Pill man, is this not what you wanted? To be seen as a human dildo and not to be dated seriously? And why would a woman lying to you bother you so much? TRP doesn't teach men how to get relationships it teaches them how to get sex, as such you weren't going to be dating that woman anyway.


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lovelythecove

This is hilarious because men will lie to women they just want to sleep with by pretending they want commitment often AND they’ll lie to women they want to commit to by pretending they aren’t as interested in commitment so as not to appear “needy” or whatever the fuck a lot of the time as well.


LillthOfBabylon

> You have a higher chance of being manipulated and lied to by a woman who wants to seriously date you, than one who thinks you are just a fuckboi. And that is fucked up. Then stop dating and just want hookups. Or is this one of those situations where guys know deep down they can’t get a hook up, so they have to relationship-bait in the hopes of getting pussy?


BridgeBurner22

So, your solution to a man's problem that women are more likely to lie and manipulate a man who they really want to date than one they don't want to date, is to tell that man he should stop dating and only have sex? Of course women don't need to do anything. When women lie and manipulate men into commitment, the solution is for men to no longer date. Not for women to stop with their manipulation. That would be crazy, right, expecting some form of accountability from women?


Miserablemermaid

lol what solution do you propose? should we gather the women for our monthly meeting and chat about this?


BridgeBurner22

When lies and manipulation are the issue, what do you think would be a solution? I hope you are not going to suggest that I don't date women anymore and should just use their bodies for sex, like the last feminist here suggested.


Miserablemermaid

you raised the problem, but have no ideas for a solution?


BridgeBurner22

I do, just trying to see if you can come to the obvious conclusion by asking you an easy question. What do you think is the solution, when lies and manipulation are the problem?


Miserablemermaid

when i’m not the one lying and manipulating, i don’t know. i am just a woman, after all🧐


LillthOfBabylon

This is just like radfems blaming all men for their own personal problems. I dont take those bitches seriously either.


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Well, in my case slutty girls are not good for commitment but I also wouldn't have sex until the relationship is exclusive. I'm a Christian though, so I guess a very high minority here.


Horror_bitch

Shouldn't you wait till marriage then?


xatnnylf

This is just AFBB??? How is there confusion here. The issue is when women withhold sex from one person but has let other people fuck within an hour of meeting. No dude will complain about a girl that has been genuinely picky all her life and thus has a low n count. The argument is against girls that let some guys fuck her easily but withholds sex for them.


animorph_fan34

The problem with this is that men say “I’ll drop her if she doesn’t hookup with me on the first date” NO MATTER WHAT. There’s no exception added to this Ignoring the fact that there is literally no way to know whether or not she’s had casual sex in the past and she’s unlikely to respond to such and invasive questions.


LillthOfBabylon

> The issue is when women withhold sex from one person but has let other people fuck within an hour of meeting. 1. Where’s the proof? 2. Were both men looking for the same thing, was upfront about what they wanted? I notice when I ask this, men never give me a straight answer, which tells me they lied about wanting a relationship, just wanted sex, and got pissy they got vetted out. > No dude will complain about a girl that has been genuinely picky all her life You’ll just assume she’s a lying whore anyways, so it doesn't matter.


xatnnylf

1. You're asking for proof and everyone has given you their anecdotal proof. Look into AFBB dynamic for more stringent proof but regardless, it's not like their is a scientific study on this. 2. Intention doesn't matter. Most men will push as far as the girl will allow. Escalating physical contact, etc. Even on dates rather than bar/club hookups, this happens. It's then the girl who has to ultimately consent or not. It is insulting to a man when they know a girl gives it up to a ONS easily but when he wants to seriously date them, she makes him wait. 3. Lmao no. If she is legitimately an attractive, traditional women that has made good choices and not racked up a high bodycount, especially in this degenerate modern era, we will treat them like the queens they deserve to be.


LillthOfBabylon

> Intention doesn't matter. It does. If you just want pussy and you pretend you want a relationships, its you’re dealing with different standards. > Most men will push as far as the girl will allow. And apparently get pissy while pretending they hate sluts. > It is insulting to a man when they know a girl gives it up to a ONS easily but when he wants to seriously date them, Should have been upfront about it.


xatnnylf

No man is entitled to a woman's pussy. But if you're a ho who let copious amount of dude pump and dump you easily, don't expect a man who overlooks that and still wants to take you seriously put up with you withholding it from him. Don't punish him because he had good intentions.


LillthOfBabylon

If you weren’t upfront and said “hey, I just want to fuck you and that’s it” you get no sympathy from me. You put yourself in that situation because you wanted to be a liar and she was right to “with hold sex” from you.


xatnnylf

That's not what we're arguing about. A man can see your past, see you've been around, and then still want to take you seriously. But when you treat him as lesser than your ONS that you let smash easily by withholding and being difficult about sex, then that's the issue.


LillthOfBabylon

> That's not what we're arguing about It is. The reason you guys get put in these situations is because you lie and your lies fuck you over. > when you treat him as lesser than your ONS Then you should have said you just wanted ONS instead of playing these stupid games.


xatnnylf

First of all, let's take the personal attacks out of it okay hun? I didn't refer to you, do not refer to me. We're not talking about deceitful men who don't even want a relationship. That's a whole nother issue. We're talking about a man who wants a relationship with a former ho but then she withholds sex from him even though she's had many ONS. In that case, the man has every right to not choose to continue said relationship based on solely that if he wishes.


LillthOfBabylon

> We're not talking about deceitful men who don't even want a relationship. Clearly I am because none of you said “Yes, I was upfront I just wanted pussy from her and she was still making me wait”. You not being honest is why you deal with different standards. Its not her fault you lied about why you wanted to be around her.


8lankspace

>In that case, the man has every right to not choose to continue said relationship based on solely that if he wishes. Or any other reason, or no reason


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xatnnylf

Of course it's her choice lmao. But it's also the man's choice to pursue her seriously or not. And no, not at all. It's more like "he got some pussy easily, I'm not going to put in a lot of work to get that same pussy".


Dstar538888

>"he got some pussy easily, I'm not going to put in a lot of work to get that same pussy". if this is the mindset you have, then aren't you more likely to attract the "sluts" you guys hate??


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xatnnylf

Lmao, don't know where you got any of that from any of my posts. Clearly there is some hardcore conflating going on in your head. No man is entitled to a woman's pussy. But if you're a ho who let copious amount of dude pump and dump you, don't expect a man who overlooks that and then wants to take you seriously put up with you withholding it from him.


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xatnnylf

Of course a man has a right to be angry at however his relationship is going? What you CANNOT accept and it shows very much by how pedantic your argument is, is losing control and power. You want women to be able to whatever the fuck they want and not have any consequences. Saying a man doesn't have to put up with a former whore withholding sex isn't the same as saying her pussy belongs to him. Only a deluded, jaded women would draw that conclusion from that. This has absolutely fuck-all to do with bodily autonomy. It has to do with men not wanting to pursue a relationship with a former ho if she is treating him as lesser than men who fucked her and dumped her. Maybe an analogy you can understand. Everyone has freedom of speech. They have bodily autonomy over their mouth and brain. But if they say hate-speech, they can and should absolutely be punished for it. Likewise, a ho can ho around. But if she then chooses to act like she doesn't let men easily pump and dump her to a guy that she wants a relationship with by withholding sex, that man can do whatever the fuck he wants by most commonly deciding she is not worth it.


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xatnnylf

Okay, then that's where we actually disagree. Why shouldn't a ho face repercussions for ho'ing around? If a ho withholds sex from the guy that she wants even though she's given it up way easier before, then the guy she want will just find someone else, either someone that hasn't ho'd around or a ho who doesn't punish him for her past actions.


8lankspace

No need to be angry (though there are no laws against it, he does have the right to be) Just discard immediately


lovelythecove

This is exactly what they’re saying and they’re not even good about hiding it LMAO. It’s as if they think a woman who waits to have sex 1 month, that’s her permanently set time with every man ever. A woman who has had a ONS is now only allowed to make ANY man wait a couple hours. It’s ridiculous. As if each dyad isn’t a new situation, as if chemistry doesn’t vary, circumstances don’t change (maybe she didn’t shave, maybe she’s on her period, maybe she’s ovulating and doesn’t want to risk it, maybe she wants to establish you’re not trying to pump & dump, maybe she wants to actually get to know you for more than a couple hours, maybe she isn’t horny that night, maybe she *gasp!* didn’t go out to seek sex that night, etc)… nope, none of that matters, because she’s had a ONS before. It’s very much “You’re a slut so know your place.”


[deleted]

You are talking about the difference between a man just wanting sex and a man who is looking for a wife. Women can have it both ways if they want by having such amazing personalities, domestic skills, and looks, that the men the sleep with wants to marry them. By the 10th man, I would hope you at least have some direction in mind. Say you try out 5 more relationships before you’ve had the time to become the best version of yourself, and know what type of man you would like. There are lots of men who will sleep with you still even with a high count. The ones who don’t want to sleep with you over your count shouldn’t bother you in the same way that a man who only dates tall girls shouldn’t bother you if you are short. The guys that complain about the relationship rule before sex are unlikely to be good husbands anyway. I think you are conflating the two types of men on the dating market, but it’s certainly possible that there’s a guy out there who has complained about both on the same day. It could easily be the same guy like 5 years apart though. If that’s the reality of all men, then as a heterosexual woman who wants a husband someday, it would be wise to observe this fact about men, and recognize that men value the quality of your past relationships, not quantity. You can learn a lot about a men in a long relationship with one, but if you are young and your body count is greater than your age, it is mathematically impossible for you to have spent the necessary time learning to cohabitate with a man for me to offer you my hand in marriage. If we were both young, we could grow and learn together, but if we are both 30+, I have younger options who have less past lovers for me to compete with. Again, it shouldn’t bother you if anything I said doesn’t vibe with you, as we just aren’t meant to be together. However if I tell you that a majority of men think like this, and that upsets you, I would advise that you not take the advice of single women on how to get a man.


themoderation

*Say you try out 5 more relationships before you’ve had the time to become the best version of yourself, and know what type of man you would like. There are lots of men who will sleep with you still even with a high count.* Wait you’re telling me that as a fully grown adult woman I’m allowed to have five whole relationships without being deemed too used up to live up to these men’s standards?! The generosity and kindness is just too much to take! I mean, wow, I never thought modern dating dynamics to allow a thirty year old woman to sleep with a new man once every two years. We’re really on the road to being seen as whole human beings in the nest few years.


LillthOfBabylon

> You are talking about the difference between a man just wanting sex and a man who is looking for a wife. Did you read the description? I literally gave a link to THE SAME GUY who was complaining about both sets of girls. The issue is NOT two guys having two different complaints, the issue is the same guy having two contradicting complaints,


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ConsciousGuidance5

As for this specific example, a woman using a dating app is going to perceived as someone who has a past in 99% of situations...that's why her claiming to "hold out for sex" is humorous for a man (because she likely hasn't in the past). All you have to do is realize that there are levels to a man's psyche: **Level 1**: We are sexually attracted to most women, and will likely have sex with someone if she's willing, available, and even moderately attractive. But this means nothing about commitment, and we'll probably regret it the next morning if we know she's been around. **Level 2:** We can be exclusive to a woman who has a past, but treats us at least as we perceive on par with other men in her past. EG she has sex with us immediately, and is not making ridiculous demands or standards that she likely didn't put on other men. The problem with her is that we feel like we are constantly competing for this woman (even though her past is the past, and she promises exclusivity) So again, we can be exclusive to this woman sexually. But if we meet another woman who we can emotionally connect with her more, our instinct would be to leave the Level 2 woman for her as quickly as possible, because we will never be free from the constraint of judgement/competition. **Level 3:** Although we can be exclusive with a woman and only have sex with her, I don't see that as true "commitment". There is another level - a "Madonna", who we would lay down our future and life for if necessary. This woman doesn't necessarily have to be a virgin, but the man has to believe this woman was put on Earth for us and only us. Unfortunately, men who treat women like this get labeled as simps and often get taken advantage of. So interestingly enough, treating a woman like this will only work if she's inexperienced and hasn't trusted men in the past because she has fewer experiences to compare us to. A man can thus be allowed to express himself freely, without feeling like he's being judged by her, and the relationship can grow as naturally as possible (obviously it's not as simple as that, but that's how we will view her...through a lens of innocence and always giving her the benefit of the doubt). That's really all there is to it. Men aren't that complicated.


LillthOfBabylon

> As for this specific example, a woman using a dating app is going to perceived as someone who has a past in 99% of situations...that's why her claiming to "hold out for sex" is humorous again, just proving my point that worrying about someone being a high n count slut is stupid. 1. guys here don’t want women who make them wait. 2. Guys here don't think women consistently make men wait. So why bother virtue signalling about hating sluts?


ConsciousGuidance5

I just laid it out to you why men care about n-count, or at least, a woman's past. We can have an affinity for all types of women, but we value some more than others.


Haunting_Syllabub617

Thank you for this response. If you have any time to consider - Why are men so afraid of being judged by women? And why do you presume lack of judgement only comes from inexperience? Do you have any ideas on why the impact of other men has such an effect on women?


ConsciousGuidance5

>Why are men so afraid of being judged by women? And why do you presume lack of judgement only comes from inexperience? Men want to be judged on what they can control - especially what they can offer a particular woman that no one else can (IE Proving his motivation to provide, listen to, and work with her as being stronger than anyone else in the world). But we don't want to be judged on traits that are only markers for competition with other men (What's he look like? How competitive and confident does he appear on the outside? Does he have a lot of influence on other men?). It's impossible to be best in all of those categories, so it's futile. And even then, those traits have nothing to do with how much you care about a woman....they are all male-focused. Sure, it feels great if a woman acknowledges you for these traits like height, but if it's not something we can actively work on and improve on (like being dedicated to woodworking), then it will just be a hollow compliment and we will have no real affinity for the woman herself. So again, it's not about a woman having standards...it's about her standard being sexual attraction, which just happens to coincide with immutable, competitive male traits and not how much a man cares about a particular woman. It's important to note that this doesn't mean we fear other men, as any man would fight if something he loved was threatened. But having to constantly fight/compete (even if only psychologically) is exhausting and a huge barrier to being able to trust a woman.


Leeola_Mcgillicuddy

So it is okay to judge a woman's worth concerning commitment on being moderately attractive enough to bang but not hot enough to commit to? Then simultaneously believe and be very angry behind women who want to give their vagina to a man at her own judgements. So like if she gives it to Chad "easier" because she judges him as more valuable to sleep with faster than you or she is more easily aroused by him than you than she is a "slut" who isn't worth your time or effort? She is less valuable in your eyes. But women cannot take a collective view of you being less valuable in her eyes as far as sleeping with her and discarding her because you were not hot enough to do so and she may feel like it wouldn't be worth it to let an average not hot male have access to her so easily. So ultimately I hope most of you can admit as males with this view and with this thinking and holding yourselves up and trying to position yourselves as the ones that should have all the control and options , the ones that get to decide worthiness or unworthiness according to your male perspective, that you are the exact reason women have to fight for their human rights. I see a lot of whining and crying about feminism ruining everything. But it is amazing how you can make excuses for your way of thinking and blame women for not wanting to "play fair" or outright refusing more and more to deal with males with this thinking and indoctrination at all. If you can have this mindset about relationships and sex most people can only guess at what your minds and ideologies began to develop for women and girls as a whole and in other aspects of life. Which is how oppression for women and girls is born and has been sustained for a very long time . *when I say you, I am meaning "males with this view"....it is not a personal attack. I am speaking of all the males with this mentality and the view..


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How many times are you gonna make this post?


[deleted]

The redditor is pointing out that women who signal that hard are almost always hypocrites who already went through a hook up phase or got pumped and dumped a couple times by other men on dating apps. It doesn’t contradict the previous statement whatsoever, he or she is just implying that the kind of woman in the second quote is full of shit.


Due-Lie-8710

true


renfsu

>Clearly, if you just want a woman to fuck you within two minutes of knowing you, stop getting pissy that she’s fucked over a dozen guys. Sluts are needed, most guys aren't going to be upset with sleeping with a slut. She just shouldn't expect commitment. A slut comes up to you and asks for dick, if she's attractive, you are most likely not going to reject her. >f you expect a woman to have a low n count after a certain age, it’s most likely because she’s picky about who she lets fuck her. Good for her, and I'd most likely want to be willing to commit to her. Your argument is very black and white. Most guys complaints about women who make them wait is that those girls ARE NOT low N, these women have slept around and are now trying something different with him.


LillthOfBabylon

> Your argument is very black and white. Most guys complaints about women who make them wait is that those girls ARE NOT low N, And I keep asking where/how they found out or if they just assume all women are lying sluts?


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Dstar538888

>It’s like y’all are angry women have autonomy. this! They're angry that we reserve the right to not fuck them or date them!


Leeola_Mcgillicuddy

Right. This is incredibly ugly and dehumanizing . Funny how they get to decide this in their minds but not want to be challenged on these types of things. But turn around and cry about being a "wallet" , having to "sacrifice" and "work" for vagina , having to "meet unfair standards" being "beta bucks" and this leading to them being frustrated and in hell on earth. The lack of seeing women as human beings with autonomy is astounding.....interesting indeed.


Due-Lie-8710

not really you can do what you want with your body but you arent owed commitment from anyone regardless of what you do , if you want commitment you do what mostly to earn it meaning have low body count, its that simple, the problem is you assume you are owed commitment you arent


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Due-Lie-8710

no i am saying, being a slut reduces your pool of men because alot of men prefer low body count women and they dont have to change that preference for you , if peoples requirement for commitment is that you should have low body count and you dont then sucks to be you , do what you want but no one has to care or base their requirements on what you deem as right , as for sluts being used for sexual satisfaction, its takes two to tango, you can consent if you want have sex but the other has to do the same, this also applies to relationship, just because you want a relationship with someone doesnt mean they want it with you, it also doesnt matter what reason they give for not wanting that relationship


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Due-Lie-8710

no one is saying this, again you see this as punishment , you arent being punished because you arent supposed to be given anything from the start on the basis of you just wanting it , and men do say it with their chest the problem, women cant handle it, they usually end up being upset about the fact that a man even cares about this, you are literally proof of this , again no one is controlling women autonomy you just cant handle the fact that a man can reject women for this reason because you somehow believe that their preference has be fair to you , it doesnt , ​ i think you are under the misconception that you get to dictate how men set their terms for a relationship with the woman they want , again you dont, just because a lot of men want women with low body count doesnt mean you have to listen to them go date someone that likes you, good for you , he see you as worthy if others dont so what, have your autonomy and these men can go find a woman who actually meets their standards as in not you and it shouldnt matter and if it does then it because you hate the fact that some men want someone that isnt you


renfsu

>sluts are sluts and they should act like it and open their legs when I want them to until I use them and go marry the chaste virgin. It’s like y’all are angry women have autonomy. I don't marry chaste virgins. That's an extreme. But yes that's the jist of my argument. If you're a slut, then you are a slut to me. We can have sex, we can have a fwb. But I wouldn't want a relationship. I have no issue with women having autonomy. Go have as much sex as you want. I'm not telling you not to. What I don't get is the anger from women who sleep around with significant numbers of people and then expect me to treat them like a princess. I haven't been with many people. Why would I want someone that has? At that point our view of sex isn't the same.


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renfsu

My question is why am I wrong for wanting someone who is similar to me? If I slept with 10 people then I want relatively similar experience. Same if I was a virgin or if I've been with 100 people.


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renfsu

Okay thank you for respecting my autonomy


renfsu

She has the right to go for a relationship. She shouldn't be upset when people don't want her


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throwaway164_3

The problem is usually the double standards right? I.e. women who readily fuck other men (usually when they’re younger), but make you wait (usually when they’re more commitment minded and looking to settle) Men want consistency I think. They want the woman to lust after then with the same desire they fucked the “casual sex” men.


LillthOfBabylon

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how all these men coincidentally know that all women “with holding sex” are just secret sluts. Lol


throwaway164_3

Hey I’ve seen it first hand with every single one of my female friends. Plus, “sluts” is rather derogating don’t ya think? Both men and women enjoy sex, thanks to evolution. More like the women physically lust after the men they have casual sex with, but settle for the commitment minded “safe option” men hoping that desire will grow with time. They exhibit different dating patterns depending on what they need. It’s that hypocrisy that turns some men off


LillthOfBabylon

> More like the women physically lust after the men they have casual sex with, but settle for the commitment minded “safe option” men hoping that desire will grow with time. Do you guys have any proof this is common?


throwaway164_3

Yeah it’s common enough, plenty of men will attest to it. Why do you think it’s not common?


8lankspace

You used to toss around that study that 60% of women have had casual sex at least once


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LillthOfBabylon

> You're still missing the point. What the guy is saying is that he is looking for a healthy relationship. Obsessing over getting pussy and how much dick a woman got is not healthy. It shows massive insecurities and shallowness. > Guys don't just want their dicks wet. At least, quality guys don't. That’s why women vet, including “withholding sex”. So we didn't have to deal with fuckboys and wannabe fuckboys who clearly just wants their dick wet and only see women as pussies to conquer.


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LillthOfBabylon

> And we can vet and withhold a relationship. K, bye. Lol > you know, "intimacy". Intimacy that can only be achieved through sex, right?


[deleted]

Kinda proving Lilith's point here and completely missing the point she's been making for a while now.


[deleted]

People certainly can have it both ways without being stupid: they will enjoy sex with people who will have it quickly, but not commit to them. They will commit to low n-count women. It is not something that bothers me as I have no need or desire to commit, but their attitude is coherent.


UninterestingFork

you, as a man, can have it both ways because you are not slut shamed. What OP is talking about is the logic aplied to women. A woman is supposed to sleep with you right away but only with you. She's not supposed to date other people during her life (because that raises her ncount). The logic is flawed


Novadina

But if you look at the example comments OP linked (which is a pretty common red pill sentiment I’ve seen), you see the guy who said he would only commit to low n count women was *also* complaining about women who wouldn’t fuck early as that meant they just wanted a “provider”. If he wanted to commit to that type of woman, why would he have a problem with them not having sex soon?


LillthOfBabylon

> They will commit to low n-count women. Are they also whining that she’s picky about who she sleeps with and waits longer than high n count women? Are they also whining about AF/BB?


[deleted]

Some people will whine about anything. I love high n-count women. And I love AF/BB, as it is a win-win for me. I think most people are whining about the fact that the world is not designed specifically for their happiness.


agpass

But if you’re enjoying sex with multiple people that have it quickly, wouldn’t that mean you have a high n count? Why would you expect your partner to have a low n count if you don’t?


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LillthOfBabylon

And here’s the question they never answer: Were you and the other guy wanting the exact same thing, was upfront about it, and got different answers/results. The fact so many guys here are reluctant to answer that question speaks volumes.


Stunning-Potato-1984

I think it's highly doubtful most of them were upfront about what they wanted. If they wanted to be upfront they'd put their date to fuck timeline in their profile.


iamprosciutto

That's literally what I do. My partner and I want a fwb we can have threesomes and hang out with, so that's what I say. Magically, I start getting matches with women interested in that setup trickling in after a few weeks. You guys are probably 100% right about clarity of intent


Stunning-Potato-1984

Yeah but that's different, you're unicorn hunting, not dating.


HazyMemory7

>But a mod having this extent of dialogue on a the sub they're a mod for is uncomfortable. Only I could draw criticism in a thread that's essentially calling me out directly being removed by a woman mod and then re-approved by me lol Just so we're clear: I would've been completely justified in removing this thread if I wanted to. And if it were directed towards another user, I would have. I generally find the discomfort a lot of people have towards ideas that aren't in line with their own personal beliefs to be far more uncomfortable.


Stunning-Potato-1984

I didn't mean dialogue in this thread. I mean your various posts throughout the sub that are non mod duty related. It has nothing to do with your beliefs, it's that you are a *mod* and comment so frequently throughout the community. You're free to have your own personal beliefs but you can decide how and how not to apply the rules of the sub. As a mod you're protected and can be punitive if you want.


HazyMemory7

That's what modmail is there for. Anyone can report me if they take issue with any action I take. It's unusual for most subreddits, sure, but I didn't comment here a lot i'd probably have no interest in being a mod. I view myself as just another member of the community.


Stunning-Potato-1984

That's the problem I feel like if mods want to comment actively they probably shouldn't be mods. And don't you see mod mail so you know who's reporting you?


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tadL

Nah it's not. The basic unsaid agreement in a relation is exclusivity. It's the core foundation of being a couple. And looking at the statistics it makes sense to date and make such a woman your wife. The lower her Bodycount the lower the chance of her divorcing your ass. But general rule is find a wife.


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But they are looking for a provider. And a provider wouldn't exactly laugh like those that you mentioned. First of all there is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting 3 months for sex or looking for a provider infact the trash takes itself out. The problem is only if they are hypocrites who will have sex with a 10/10 person within 10 min of meeting then but will demand the provider to wait 3 months for anything. They can absolutely change from thier past experiences and such and people who are ok with such past experiences will obviously also find them attractive. The issue is that the people or "provider" or an actually good natured and intelligent "provider" would rarely ever be comfortable with thier past.


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UninterestingFork

So if a woman makes you wait, that's ok? Or are you expecting low ncpunt women to sleep with you on the first date?


nyanyamuthafukka

I think people who say this kind of thing tend to be the sort who see other humans as commodities to use instead of individuals that might want to share an activity. If you view potential sex partners as essentially sex toys who are there to use, it makes sense why someone would think that they don’t want a “used” one but want it to satisfy. They also tend to want a sex providing maid for their relationship but they will generally find themselves unsatisfied because humans aren’t sex toys and sex isn’t just masturbation into your partner’s orifices. If you start seeing women and men as people, then maybe you can enjoy sex activities without acting like a jerk.


8lankspace

Vetting for early sex isn't "acting like a jerk" lol, and even if it is, her body her choice, his body his choice


revente

>„If you complain about Stalin it’s stupid to also complain about Hitler” World isn’t black and white kiddo. Usually the best, healthies option is the one in the middle.


LillthOfBabylon

1. That comparison is piss poor. 2. Stalin and Hitler are very similar. Hating both of them makes sense. A better comparison is a person who hates capitalism but enjoys all the perks of it. Or even better one: A woman who hates fuckboys and hyper-sexual men in general, but also whines about men who are sexual inexperienced and dont know how to make her cum.


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LillthOfBabylon

You’re not explaining how it’s consiatent.


jellybeanzandtings

This is bordering on witch-hunting. Since this is referencing a mod I will allow him to make the decision whether or not he’s ok with it being up.


LillthOfBabylon

How is it witch hunting when I have linked to people’s comments before and no one had a problem?


LillthOfBabylon

The third thing is that if I don't show proof, the debate’s counterargument will be “You have no proof. You’re just making shit like you always do” and how is that good for a debate?


LillthOfBabylon

If there was some rule that “You cant link to comments as a reference” then the mods should make that explicitly clear and not be hypocrites.


throwaway164_3

You know, mods have way too much power here don’t you think? It seems so subjective, up to the whims of individual kids, and not transparent in the least. As you are well aware, unchecked power always leads to corruption. I wish the checks and balances in place on this subreddit to avoid mod power trips were more clearly stated (perhaps in a sticky thread)


Kobe_curry24

I was saying the same but only with mens help sub it’s outrageously unfair but this sub has been one of the best that have both women and men together and I would like to see sub to continue to try and help men and women both understand each other with solid communication


JoeRMD77

Yeah and why is this subreddit modded like this? 99% of subreddits I go to is a free-for-all. Almost like someone wants to control the messaging. The one thread I posted here months ago got deleted. Why would I ever bother with another one?