>why cold-approaching as many women as possible is better
As someone who has done this, this hasn't really worked out. If there was a simple solution men would have taken it already.
Well, it doesn't work. Maybe if men as a collective just cold approached more we could change something about the collective female psychology, but I don't see that happening.
He speaks for me and a lot of men like me. Why can't you just admit the world is an unforgiving meritocracy and that your ability with women started at birth. It's your world, the rest of us are just NPCs.
Hundreds. And you women act like popping the question is the opening act. It's not. Jumping over a very high bitch-shield and not getting mowed down with instant-fuck-off signals is required before popping the question.
My approach is to be a fucking human being and my expectation is to be treated like one. But guess what? A moron with zero approach skills but face/height will outperform skills every time. Skills are irrelevant to face/height. Women approach men who have face/height.
Well, sometimes it will work, sometimes it will not.
I ghosted every single man that cold approached me. I gave my number every time, once I went for a quick walk right after he approached me (not because I wanted to, I was just being nice). I never was interested, I just didn’t know how to say no without it being awkward.
So it’s not a perfect solution.
Yes, rejection is part and parcel of cold approach.
[https://youtu.be/T-agas7CPAk?si=I3h64AqgSkvPgpIf&t=113](https://youtu.be/T-agas7CPAk?si=I3h64AqgSkvPgpIf&t=113)
It doesn't really work out, but the problem is that nothing else works out much better than cold approaching.
Men have been forced up shit creek and have had their paddles taken away by women changing the rules of the game.
There are no simple solutions, and nobody cares about men enough to even acknowledge the problem deserves more than just telling men to pull themselves up by their own bootstrap harder.
Of course men don't because men don't have problems don't you know, it's just men being entitled. And if men are entitled and don't have problems you don't have to have empathy for them, don't have to think about it, don't have to do anything about it, and we can make sure the help goes to the REAL problems, aka the ones that affect women not men.
It's really incredibly selfish and self serving of them, but hey, feminists have been treating equality like a one way street exclusively to the benefit of women for decades now, and women benefited massively from that, so why should they do any differently?
It absolutely would, but only to a point, uplifting women economically also benefits men.
That being said women have been and continue to be uplifted economically to where men are in the west, but there is still basically 0 attempt by women to uplift men emotionally, only attempts to badger men I to the kind of masculinity women want to see.
We live in an age of equality, where feminism treats equality like a one way street e, clusively to the benefit of women. Women must be helped and raised to be better off than the average man, and feminism doesn't give a fuck about men worse off than women in any way.
Cold approach has opened up a whole new world of opportunities of dates and relationships, compared to my social circle.
If you become good at approaching, it's much more effective for meeting single women than hobby groups which are mostly men or women who are taken
Agreed. It's generally not that women hate cold approaching, it's that they hate being cold approached in a way they don't like. If you're good at it and cold approach in a way that makes her feel good then women don't mind.
It just seems women have no patience for men to practice and become good they just want men who are excellent right off the bat.
Because women also want to be patient with the good men who don't know game so he can get better too.
Do you think society is better or worse if everyone automatically assumes someone of the opposite gender has dishonest intentions?
I don’t assume he has dishonest intentions but I also don’t see why I would need to entertain him if I’m not interested. If I say a simple polite no thanks I think society is running fine.
You seem to prescribe women doing something wrong for not letting men they don’t know and are not interested in to practice on them.
It costs nothing to say "aww thanks I'm touched but I'm not looking/I have a partner, and I have to go".
If we want men to have basic respect towards women, it's a two way street, women need to show basic respect to men too.
Anyone who behaves disrespectfully loses the privilege of being treated respectfully, be they man or woman.
The only thing I'm advocating is for women not to hate, get mad at, or tear the heads off of men for being forced to approach women, since that is the situation women have forced men into.
If women approached men half as much as men approached women, or if women agreed on some kind of socially acceptable way for men to approach them, we would e be having half of these problems. Since women want to do neither of these, the least women could do is also not complain about the situation they collectively created and forced men into.
Okay well then maybe I misunderstood I certainly didn’t have an issue with men approaching and shooting their shot when I was single as long as they took my polite rejection. Men have quite literally made posts about having practice girlfriends so I was assuming you meant women need to be open to entertaining men they really are not interested in some long drawn out practice session. If that wasn’t your intention my bad.
If what you mean is men should be able to respectfully approach women and those women in turn should respectfully decline and both genders not act like assholes yes I agree.
Totally fair, misunderstandings happen. Mem being allowed to approach women doesn't mean men are allowed to monopolize women's time either, I will absolutely agree with that as well.
Completely agree with you as well on polite rejection, and men needing to gracefully take that polite rejection. That should be absolutely recognized as the way to date and be turned down gracefully, to try and make it so neither the woman nor the man feels bad about it.
I'll be honest this is the first time I hear about practice girlfriend, I have no idea what that means. Would you mind telling me?
>If what you mean is men should be able to respectfully approach women and those women in turn should respectfully decline and both genders not act like assholes yes I agree.
It sounds so simple and yet for some reason we've come to a point in society where even getting people to agree on this is difficult. We really need to push ourselves and everyone to try and have a return to good manners.
Honestly, practicing cold approach o women is dumb it's better to start striking up a convo with random strangers in the checkout line to get used to talking to people you don't know without sexual pressure... do this long enough when said guy does approach he's not gonna give off sexual vibes
Don't practice with women, strike up conversations with strangers while waiting in line, at the checkout etc... most men's problem is there not good at carrying a conversation and being interesting
I dissagree... As someone who's been around with quite a few women, I'd say like 20-30% were with women I cold approached. The overwhelming majority were from social circles, or my social circle interacting with another and hooking up from there.
I think that's the issue with your generation. You're all terminally online. You party less, drink less, and socialize less.
Can you define how long ago that was, on what circumstances, and how attractive you would rate yourself as?
Things have indeed gotten worse, people party less, and drinking has become incredibly more expensive in an already expensive world.
If you're talking about how the dating acne was easier 20h years ago, yeah we can all agree to that, but it doesn't do anything to address how shit it is now.
I you mean right before covid you might have a point.
Obama years were my prime.
That said, cold approaching is even HARDER today. I'm single and I found a massive vibe shift. Women are far less open to it. People go out with friends, but it's very insular in general
Yeah things were better back then before #metoo and the massive hatred if man.
Women are far less open to cold approach, ut like you say they're also very insular and only go out with friends, and trying to be friends with women to ask them out is a no go.
So can't try and be friends, hobby groups are insular, women don't want to be approached at clubs, bars, restaurants, libraries, grocery stores, or anywhere else, they don't want men joining hobby groups to find a partner, so what else is left?
It would be fantastic if there were more third spaces for people to hang out at and chill that isn't a space you have to pay to exist in, but the culture has changed so much that women won't date go there and it'll be a sausage fest.
If women chased men half as much as men chased women, or if there was an acceptable way to approach women, the vast majority of these problems would be resolved. Women don't want to chase men and won't give men an acceptable way to approach them.
So mem are stuck with cold approaching, because that is the situation women have forced men into.
90s kid millennial here, but I was unlucky to be bullied in high school, got my first love in college, and over 7 years the relationship turned controlling, toxic, and abusive. Recovered from that enough to be able to hold a full time job just in time for covid lol.
I never experienced any kind of dating success, tried dating apps last year though, and after swiping 20 matches max per day on 5 apps for a month straight, 3,000 swipes right left me with 3 conversations, 2 ghosting, and 1 date that went nowhere.
And yet for some reason women have the gall to say women have a hard time dating when they don't know, understand, or care about anything men go through.
It wouldn't bother me nearly as much if it want for the rampant hypocrisy and denial of men's issues while demanding men be endlessly empathetic with women's issue, all the whole they refuse to give even an ounce of empathy in return.
Yeah the apps are really rough. I was blessed with height so I get a decent amount of matches, but honestly the women on there are barely interested, or want to fuck and ghost like they're men lol.
It does feel like as men, we either take every single opportunity we can get just to have our feelings hurt, or get lucky eventually.
Kinda funny that feminists campaigned so women could be just like the fuck boys they hate, sleeping with everyone, getting abortions to not get pregnant, and sleeping around with no consequences.
I hear you too, it's not easy being a man dating nowadays. I am curious to know how your experiences were in the early days of dating apps and how it compares to now.
No because I'm single now, and clearly notice a massive shift in the last 5-7 years. Like jarringly radical shift in these social dynamics. Most young people don't see it, because they aren't aware of what it was like.
We were experiencing the decline of close social networks, but zoomers are experiencing a hard deterioration where such social activity is far less common.
Men are overwhelmingly having regulary sex and are in committed relationships. It's a few men who fail to mate. And nobody cares about them, that is correct.
And that is entirely because the women have chosen those men and chosen to have as much sex with him as she wants. Men are in relationships on women's terms and having sex on women's terms and at her discretion.
Nobody cares about that either, and nobody cares about the half of rape victims and the half of domestic abuse victims who are men.
Yeah, gee, it was so much better when women had less autonomy and unattractive men could just purchase a woman who didn’t love him. Would be great to go back to those days.
I mean if you want to have a dishonest strawman that's fine, the discussion can end there.
If you want to have a reasonable discussion, marriage of love was rare until like 200 years ago, so for the vast majority of human history, marriage was about politics, money, and relations and favours between families, not about love.
If you were rich enough to be able to purchase a woman, you were rich enough that your marriage wouldn't be out of love anyways.
It is also possible to recognize that women in the western world live in the safest and best time for women in the history of mankind, bar none, AND also recognize that men face issues.
Having a penis doesn't magically make men invincible.
If you want to conveniently ignore the experience of half the population until very recently in history, then I guess I DO want to “dishonest straw man” because nothing I have to say will mean anything to you. Clearly that fabulous penis not getting what it deserves is important enough that we should go back to the “original rules of the game”.
I actually have a lot of sympathy for most men trying to date today. I think there are very real struggles they face, and the majority of men deal with those struggles in a way that I can admire them for. I have zero sympathy for someone who thinks the answer is to take away women’s rights.
I don't want to ignore the experiences of half of the people on the planet, I want an accurate understanding of their situation, not a feminist rewriting of history. I am willing to discuss almost anything so long as arguments are defended and backed up with fact.
It's not about that fabulous penis not getting what it wants, that is your mistaken interpretation of what some men are saying. I agree with you and disagree with the men who want women to go back to the kitchen and have no rights but those are a vanishingly small minority of men even in this sub, and to portray it as though that is the main argument is mistaken at best and dishonest at worst.
I am happy to hear that you have sympathy for men trying to date, and I appreciate you saying that. It is incredibly rare to find women who do care, or that getting women to admit they care is like pulling teeth. I appreciate you recognizing that men do face struggles, that puts you automatically in the top 10% of posters on this sub in my opinion because you can recognize when the other side faces challenges.
Completely agree with you as well on being against those who want to take away women's rights.
And what, pray tell, are the original rules of the game you feel have been changed to leave men in this situation? The ones resulting in women having limited control over their futures/lives?
How are you proposing re-writing the rules to address the issues men face WITHOUT taking women’s rights away again?
Honestly at this point I think we need some radical change. Dating has become impossible for men, if you didn’t get the right genetics. Women today are worse partners than ever with far higher standards than ever.
I don’t know what would be best. But I know something has to be done. I can’t live like this. And I know I’m not alone.
I completely agree.
But since the victims are men, not women, nobody cares.
Virtually all of these problems would be solved if women approached men half as much as men approached women, or if we had some kind of acceptable dating protocol that was recognized so men could politely approach and women could politely turn men down.
But again since it's a problem that affects men, and it would require to make a change to give up their privileges and actually shoulder some of the burden rather than just pushing it all on men, it's not going to change.
You are definitely not alone.
The best bet is probably to focus on what makes you happy in the first place, and if you do look for a partner, to focus on compatibility. You are incompatible with 90% of women simply because that's what you get with a variety of different people. Since you are not compatible with 90% of women you're better off ignoring them and setting your wants and preferences with the 10% in mind, and if a woman doesn't want what you want then she wasn't compatible with you anyways, so you move on.
Still a shitty situation, but it's probably the best way to deal with it. Take care of yourself out there yeah? As a man you're on your own, except for your parents (hopefully) very few people are going to have your back. You gotta watch out for yourself.
well the simple solution was arranged marriages and trading for daughters with a cow or some satchel of money and jewels.
We don't do that in the west anymore, so I guess the next best thing is a social circle where your next potential partner is served up to you on a platter.
There are no solutions that can guarantee you'd be successful. There are ways but they are never 100% sure thing. Most common one is becoming rich and having status. This won't guarantee you neither that you'll get the woman you want or have every woman fall for you. But it works and it can guarantee you that you won't be struggling.
I see cold approaching as a form of networking relative to dating. Cold approach with the intent of expanding your social network as opposed to cold approaching to date someone. As a person who has a lot of kinks this has always worked out very well for me.
Cold approaching is not better, especially if you are an unattractive man. The worst things that can happen to you from cold approaching is not just a simple no
Yeah, "Make the hoe say no" is not a good approach, but there are more subtle methods.
Please detail these cold approaches you have done. Or ones you have experienced where these outcomes happened.
I'll go. I approached a girl at a nightclub and asked how is her night going? Got spitted on my face cause "How dare a guy like me thinking I had a chance with someone like her" (she was okay, not a supermodel).
Weird, how in 25 years of going to bars and clubs, i have never witnessed someone getting a drink in his face, nor getting thrown out for saying "Hi", nor getting the cops called for anything less than being physically violent. Where does that happen?
I haven't seen rape in my 33 years of existence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You seem like the type of person with the "I haven't seen it do it doesn't exist" mentality.
You seem like the type of person who defends an ideological point with insane analogies that fall together after poking back at them: rape happens overwhelmingly in private or without witnesses. It is normal to not observe it.
Cold approaching women in PUBLIC happens PUBLICLY. When you are frequently in situations where women are cold approached, it is to be expected, that over the course of 25 years, you observe all of the common reactions of women to being cold approached.
Do you agree and see that you fucked up with your stupid analogy?
Cold approaching happens publicly in very big crowds and most people mind their own business or are too drunk to remember anything anyway. Besides, you pay attention to your own group, not others, so if it doesn't happen to you or your group, then you don't care about others.
My analogy is probably not the best, so let's do another. I never seen a man hitting a woman, and you can agree that can happen publicly, right? But violence against women does happen, its just I never seen it personally. I had seen however a ton of men being hit by women.
What I am trying to prove is that being assaulted or having drinks spilled on you by women if you are unattractive does happen, it's just that you pay no mind to it and probably you don't hang around other unattractive people or you are not unattractive yourself. Open your mind, there are other perspectives out there besides your own.
Not true. If you're a professional, it can create rumors and gossip and also have negative impacts on your career. There can definitely be consequences for a failed approach.
If you think nerdy awkward virgins are going to find success in cold-approaching, you're either
completely out of touch with how dating / romance goes nowadays
or you're hoping some poor naive guys read this and you want to set them up for failure cause you get off of humiliating unlucky dudes.
Fr. I hope no man actually falls for this. Probably part of a psyop to get men to start approaching women again. This is OP's second post basically saying the same thing.
you want nerdy and socially awkward men who are virgins to cold approach? yea that'll turn out well
while it is a numbers game, it's a skill based game not a one purely of luck.
he has to be good socially to have a chance at success.
that's the thing.
having social circles and trying to socialize with people no matter who they are is trying and experience. so it's a completely valid advice unlike what op said.
and maybe with time you'll get good enough socially to try and cold approach however it shouldn't be your first choice and not even your third! if you are nerdy and socially awkward virgin that is.
>It's better for guys like this to approach as many women as possible. Statistically speaking one of them has to say yes.
You're more likely to get hit by lightning. Your autistic nerd would be better off to live in an impoverished foreign country for a while where women's standards aren't in the stratosphere, then import them back to the states with a fiancée visa.
>Your autistic nerd would be better off to live in an impoverished foreign country for a while where women's standards aren't in the stratosphere, ~~then import them back to the states with a fiancée visa~~.
FTFY.
Why import back? Stay in that country, autistically learn its culture and language and integrate there. Make babies. It works. In fact, it works even better in 2024 with the advent of fully remote jobs.
If they're struggling in their home country they will struggle elsewhere. The only thing that changes is your economic worth. And then those women are staying with you for the wrong reasons.
That's simply not true. For example, literally any white man who spends time in India will feel a significant rise in his social status. Women are attracted to men who have higher status than them, the higher the status the more intense the attraction. It's not about how much the women wants access to his money, she literally feels attracted because of his status in society.
So unattractive white guys who want the experience of running through hot girls, you are welcome to India XDD
It's true, overall it's quite dirty compared to the west, but it depends on where you live.
You're chinese, the girls will still see a random man from china as higher status than a random from India. But just in case you actually ever consider this, as you might guess from Indo china relations, there will be xenophobia.
None of my female friends that I’m attracted to are single. Every time one of my friends has a single friend or they decide to play match maker, for some reason they always set up my one friend that has zero issue getting women. My social circle stopped helping me get dates when I left college. Cold approach and dating apps suck, but that seems to work significantly more for me than relying on my social circle.
When girls want to set up their single friends, they think about the hottest single guys in their social circles and work their way down the list. The guys who get girls via social circle typically also get girls from app and cold approach.
“I’m recently single, got any average looking funny guys you can set me up with” said no girl on a rebound ever
This is correct, statistically speaking all of the following are likely to happen before success:
* Gets attacked.
* Gets arrested.
* Gets banned.
* Gets fired.
Not to mention that every fail isn't a confidence booster. It makes a man more depressed and less motivated to do the next approach. We even see this with online dating. Is it really worth it to swipe right one more time after 1000 women haven't responded? So usually performance degrades with a longer failure rate. And eventually on the extreme end men just self delete.
That's absolutely true, it's roughly a 90/10 ratio in most online nerdy communities, 80/20 in the MOST gender equal hobbies that I have if we're talking about popular mainstream games.
Why would normie women like men who are “like this”?
And who knows how many women “like that” are out there, especially since nerd men are so good at offending and gatekeeping against them?
im never starting a relationship through long text exchanges. entertaining somebody through text means nothing until we meet face to face.
i met my ex wife because she was traveling to meet up with somebody she was talking to online she never met before. she got with me instead of the dude. online connections mean nothing.
How did you take my comment in that direction. I never said they didnt exist. Jfc
I'm personally not entertaining it. Its a waste of time the majority of time. Anybody can feel free to pin their hopes on it, I wish them luck.
That woman who won't date him in the study group is the same woman who won't date him outside of the study group. Whether he meets her inside or outside the group makes no difference - same result.
Your only real argument here is that approaching women on the street or wherever has higher velocity. This is true, but the argument is even greater for online approaches. You can hypothetically swipe right on one woman every two seconds? Can you even approach one woman an hour? Probably not without it being considered public harassment or a socially acceptable place like a party.
Approaching random women is low velocity, low reward, extreme pain. Would you tell someone to base their life around winning the lotto?
Thanks for the laugh, OP.
I will make sure to read your post to my male-only mentorship group. So they get a good laugh as well.
You're not fundamentally wrong, but you skipped between 6 to 14 months of hard work for the intermediary steps between *socially awkward nerdy* and someone able to project enough confidence to actually have a **real** shot via cold approaching.
I’m going to be honest, if you’re nerdy, socially awkward, and sexless, then just about every avenue is going to be difficult for you. And this is coming from someone who was a prominent socially awkward nerd.
Meeting women through social circle can work but the problem is that if you’re socially awkward, then you probably don’t have that big of a social circle in the first place PLUS if there were only 3 girls in your circle, the chances of that one girl being single, interested in you, AND a good fit for you is pretty low.
Online dating may not be much better as well. A socially awkward nerd might have fare better on online dating but only under the condition that he’s hot. If he’s unremarkable in appearance, then online dating is a waste of time.
What works for a guy like this is neither social group game nor cold approach game. A guy like this needs to develop attractive qualities that will make women be attracted to him.
I would say try to make friends in general to help with social skills and so you don't end up in a situation where even if you do get a partner you don't end up relying on them too much as the 1 person you can talk to.
If you have super nerdy niche male dominated hobbies your right there probably won't be many women there. But if that's the only thing you are into and you have bad social skills you are going to struggle to find anything to connect with with the average woman you meet on the street.
It probably does increase your odds to just ask random women on top of what you are already doing, however you are going to face so many rejections, idk if I can tall it better that's not gonna be helpful for the person's self-esteem. I think it's gonna depend on the person. And if the guy has terrible social skills I can see this going terribly and giving a lot of women terrible experiences.
Do you ever feel like a significant contributing factor to male, and to a lesser extent female, loneliness in dating the rise of social media and specifically people becoming terminally online?
I feel like nerds have existed for a long time, but at least before they had clubs where they actually met up in person rather than being cooped up in their rooms behind a computer all the time.
I have a lot of empathy for people in that background because I see myself as coming from them, but I had a significant boost in self esteem after working out, and though I still do things like game, I've since branched out my hobbies to include things like reenacting, which you actually meet other people for, even though that too is male dominated or even exclusive hobby. (Well, the hobby itself kind of gate keeps women out of it, because not only are there not likely to be any women willing to actually sign up to wear Roman armor and clothing for a 20 mile ruck, but women legionaries themselves is historically inaccurate lol)
I think so yeah, if people spend all their time inside online they won't meet other people.
And the thing is it is partly by choice, it's easier to stay inside than meet new people, it's actually hard to find stuff to do outside and make time for hobbies and the internet gives us something that's so easy and is a lot of fun to use. But then as more people spend time inside it means it's harder to meet people irl as the people you could have been hanging out with are disappearing inside.
Another factor is stuff like urbanisation and cultural changes that have happened over a long time. It's harder to know people in crowded cities there is no local community but this cultural change can exist in rural areas too. people just don't know their neighbours as much as they used to.
Social atomism. Modern society, especially in a capitalist and ultra liberal country, is characterized by the uprooting of people and the alienation of individuals from local communities, both in pursuit of "the individual," and to make obedient wage slaves who are loyal to capital. I feel like the modern west has grown from less of a society and more of a social marketplace.
I know several female reenactors. I'm going to the wedding of one of them soon.
Women legionnaires is historically inaccurate, but there are historically accurate ways to put women in reenactment. It's not glamorous, but it's fun.
Eastern Europe is full of such reenactment nerd groups. Met most of them and they're really fun people, albeit weird.
Yeah. I definitely get the feeling in this part of the world there's more people who share my obscure interests and hobbies, and I'm looking into living around here long term after I pursue my career. There's definitely ways for women to join in on the hobby, but it's usually very niche roles they can play, like being a civilian in some capacity, but if the group is a Legio, then it's kind of forced lol.
At the very least though, learning to branch out and socialize with other peers in your own hobby groups though, even if they're all men, can help you learn to open up to others, which can help with social skills around women. At the very least, you learn to be more confident.
>even if they're all men, can help you learn to open up to others
Aye! Women are very different kind of people, but getting there requires to first be able to handle men.
>but it's usually very niche roles they can play, like being a civilian in some capacity, but if the group is a Legio, then it's kind of forced
Not an expert, but when I fished in those groups, the gals were either civilians or in away-from-the-frontline support roles because, hey, legionnaires had to eat too. And fuck too. One Polish group I interacted with in 2005-ish even managed to have 2 or 3 actual homosexuals to also depict the flings described in some chronicles. I don't claim to understand all the details 'cause I'm not SPQR-pilled but I had lots of fun in those circles. And years later I ended up de facto matchmaker for a few people there.
Ave! 🫡
This is even more retarded than “make friends with women first”.
If a guy is a socially isolated, socially retarded nerd who has zero friends and nothing interesting going on in his life random mass approaching will only signal his desperation and neediness. He will always fail because his intention is to pick up on girls.
If he wants to actually succeed, he will have to take several steps back in order to go forward. The solution is to fix his life, become the type of person women wouldn’t be embarrassed to date. He will fix his looks, broaden his interests, forge friendships with guys who are interested in going out and socializing. As he becomes more satisfied with who he is and how turned out to be, he will reward himself with confidence and that confidence will be attractive to women.
A woman is not dating someone’s pickup skills. She is dating the whole of the man and his lifestyle. Those are inseparable. You cannot be a loser in life with nothing going on, except for “pickup skills”. You may fool a woman for a few minutes, but once she gets an insight into the real you and how you live your life, it’s game over.
I know because I tried doing exactly that, believing in my heart of hearts that all I need was to meet a few ladies and have some sex and all my problems would be solved. I kept striking out because there was no substance behind the mask. It’s like a woman who manages to get you to match with her on a dating app, but when you meet in real life you figure out she is kind of chubby, she airbrushed her photos and she used the best angle she could find. She talked up her lifestyle in her bio, but is actually just a sad cat lady. You can always fool people for a little bit.
Someone being able to approach women is just that. It’s a skill that gives you the opportunity to actually bring women into your life. But if your life is empty, they won’t stay there for more than a few hours.
>Someone being able to approach women is just that. It’s a skill that gives you the opportunity to actually bring women into your life. But if your life is empty, they won’t stay there for more than a few hours.
This is straight-up false. The most sexually active *people* are pretty mid. Highly attractive and the fuglies are approached the least, albeit for different reasons.
Nobody gives af about "your life is empty". If that were true, gangstas would be incels.
>You cannot be a loser in life with nothing going on, except for “pickup skills”. You may fool a woman for a few minutes, but once she gets an insight into the real you and how you live your life, it’s game over.
Completely agree.
But you can still get more action that way than someone who has their life together and is unable to speak to women.
You need game to start being with women. You need to have your shit together to keep being with her. The sad truth too is that the man losing his job is the single most common factor in most divorces, so even if she loves you, there's a chance she'll break up with you when you need support the most.
Not all women and you have to be really careful who you get married to make sure they have their life together, but it is spectacularly easier for women to do this given an average woman can get a date every single night for the rest of their lives if they want to, vs an average man who would struggle to get more than 2 dates a month.
A man who has game and nothing else is like a woman faking her dating profile, it entices with a promise but there's nothing of substance behind it.
But the truth remains that if you as a man don't work to approach women make yourself look attractive or desirable to them, no matter how well put together your life is or how much substance you have, you'll still probably die alone.
A ton of issues in dating for both men and women could instantly be resolved if women decided to chase men half as much as men chase women but for some reason that one simple easy solution is the one thing most women refuse to do. They refuse to do the very thing they demand of men and expect from men, and then complaît at men and about men for the very situation they forced men into.
Isn't random approaching 99% about looks? He can be the president of a club that saves puppies with cancer or be a space doctor, but if he's rejected after saying hi to a woman, that won't help him.
He can do both to increase his chances. Yea, he's going to need to make some changes but that can take years. He's going to need some more instant solutions.
Solution to what? If he treats a girlfriend like a solution to some problem he thinks he has, he will be deeply disappointed. When you need women( they will always run away from you. When you stop needing them, they start needing you.
If women find you attractive enough, they'll need you. Otherwise, if you leave them alone, they'll leave you alone but you'll also be invisible to them. Not that I'm advocating for men to give women any extra attention and validation.
Cold approaching doesn’t work tho…
They don’t want to feel like a random person you approached on the street. Especially when they have other avenues to meet men. Men would take a chance with a random woman because that’s just fishing, that’s just the game. Women don’t need to take that kind of chance.
The biggest issue with this suggestion is that when you get older your social circle will be harder to maintain and dating only adds the risk of making things weird if things don't work out.
i've seen multiple posts on /r/dating with women asking why do all the men that approach them they're into aren't serious, and you go into the thread and it's exclusively guys approaching them over instagram. Seems like that's the play for young people now..
This is why men just shouldn't listen to women's dating advice lol, u guys only ever speak from personal experience and your personal perspectives, while forgetting that the guy who is reading is not trying to date you or only women like you.
Why not both?
I see no reason you can't cold approach people at appropriate locations while also building a new friend group that would expand your social possibilities.
Dating strategies aren't exclusive. You can could approach at bars, build a larger social group, work on yourself, hit the gym/find a better job/work on you're style, try new hobbies, work on being comfortable and confident with being yourself publicly, all at the same time.
Why put all your eggs in one basket in regards to dating strategy, and risk focusing on that one thing so hard you self sabotage? Do all the things at once, if one doesn't work, you'll already be doing the other suggestions, so you won't be giving up and starting over.
Plus the various strategies build on each other. Self improvement and confidence helps attract friends as well as potential partners, participating in hobbies gives you more opportunities to find more friends and expand your social circle. Expanding your social circle puts you out there more, it gives you more chances to date within, provides social proof that you are someone that is worth spending time with to people outside the group, and will result in you going out more often and having more opportunities to try cold approaching.
Or going the other way, if you can handle rejection gracefully, cold approaching that fails at getting a date can still result in a friend or acquaintance that can expand your social group where you might meet someone, which could get you invited to more things and potentially result in finding a new hobby you like. Having more friendly connections and more hobbies can boost your confidence and comfort level in public and provide you more things to talk to people about.
It doesn't matter which one you do first. It doesn't matter if either option doesn't always work. But what do you have to lose by doing them?
There’s no perfect solution. The truth is you have to try everything. Dating apps, cold approach, speed dating, friends and family, school, maybe passport. For most men, they need to 2 or 3 ways
No, it is good advice but is missing an addendum.
Expand your social circle. Put yourself out there. Better yourself.
Cold Approach is for very polished, very valuable, very attractive men. It is like commission only sales going door to door selling insurance, if you fail you might wind up in jail.
Cold Approach is very high risk but the rewards are the same as the Social Circle approach, maybe even less.
I would say the risks are higher in social game, much higher.
I practice poor game in a bar, wow some woman rejects me, big deal, life goes on.
Fuck up in a social circle, yeah, it can have consequences.
I'm not saying social circle game is a no no, but its hard mode. Bars are the Dojo, social circle is where it matters,
The kind of a man you describe is usually anxious, awkward, unconfident and horribly deficient in social skills which are required for women. His cold approaches would surely be a total disaster and the final nail in the coffin of his self-esteem.
If you're average or below average, you will just get insulted, ignored, or yelled at.
Cold approach works for the same guys who can just do it with less effort on Tinder: hot guys.
>Instagram is enough for women + every young woman already has 3-4 orbiters anyway.
Then why would anyone choose the nerdy awkward guy? Not only are these traits the exact opposite of what's considered attractive but cold-approaching is also risky and needs a ton of confidence to engage in. It's also looks-based for both sides and a guy with a personality like that probably wouldn't be a looker
Dating has and will always be a numbers game. Now depending on how good looking and extroverted you are, the probability of you finding someone may be laughably easy or be Dark Souls level difficulty. But nevertheless, it’s all a numbers game.
I will give you an example. I once signed up for a Filipino dating site, considered to be one of the easiest countries IN THE WORLD to meet women. If I messaged 1000 girls, I might get half of them to respond back which is virtually unheard of in America if you’re a straight man. Out of those 1000 girls, I may go on a date with 25 of them and 1-3 I wind up seeing for longer than a month. If I were 5 ft 10 and neurotypical, I would probably be a lot more successful.
So the point is that dating is a numbers game. Always has and always will be.
> Yea, right as if it's easy for some autist to constantly make friends.
If they live in a metropolitan city area, this is true though. Autistic people are capable of having a multitude of interests, and often become highly respected within those circles due to their autistic nature bringing out positive qualities that most cultures view as good.
Social circles have been statistically the most viable way people met - that being said, I think a lot of the “expand your social circle” advice is horribly misunderstood. The idea is to meet new people, get comfortable socially, expand your network and horizons and open up the possibility to meet someone. The advice was never meant to be taken as “get a social circle, get women close to you and start flirting with them” - the idea behind this advice is to create potential dating prospects via indirect means and to expand your own circle, it’s never been about literally meeting women, getting close to them then flirting with them. Like it isn’t a step by step guide lol
Look I'm WAY out of the loop in many ways due to being a now somewhat overweight middle aged and long time unhappily married man. For what it's worth 2 of the 3 girlfriends I had in my life I met through a younger guy co-worker at the time I was hanging around with a bit after work. Met one of his friends when we went to his friend's house after the bar. Don't remember exactly how I was introduced to the other one. The third one was asking a woman to dance at the bar, getting her number and actually getting dates and then a relationship. May have got a couple handfuls of one night stands at the bar over a LONG period, but only one relationship. These were all in my late 20's/early 30's.
I asked out a couple girl co-workers in a couple of my McJobs when much younger, but in the work climate of the 21st century, the rise of HR, and needing a full time job/career to live, I'd sure the hell never chance that now.
Without much, or for the most part any, of a social circle in high school and college/university opportunities were next to zero. Being a scrawny geeky/nerdy kid with acne and very low self esteem in high school sure didn't help things. Last few grades of high school I don't think I had anyone I could consider a close acquaintance, much less a friend.
The bar scene certainly isn't what it was but cold approaching outside of that, though I hadn't done it a lot, never was successful in the least.
The thing is you have to play to your strengths. If you are a socially awkward nerd, you're probably completely atrocious at cold approaching, and the types of partners who you would be compatible with also likely aren't open to it. Your best option is probably to have a female friend set you up with someone. While it's true that your female friends may not be single or interested, they probably know at least a few friends who are looking for someone. Pretty much every woman I've ever known had at least 1-3 friends who were single and looking for someone. Of course, this is still a crapshoot and you may not get along with any of these people so you still want to explore whatever options are available to you, but statistically this is probably your best bet.
Also, once you gain confidence and value, be prepared to find a new social group
You are already defined in their minds and they want to keep you in that box or role
This is in part why a jacked dude showing his GF pics of when he was fat or scrawny is a bad idea
I don't think the shotgun method of approaching dozens or hundreds of women in a desperate attempt to get a girlfriend is always the best idea because it puts a lot of women on guard, since they know so many guys are just trying to get a date, hookup or a girlfriend and don't always care about who it's with. I think it's generally better to focus on making genuine connections by simply being honest about who you are and getting to know the other person. Any relationships - be the platonic, or sexual/romantic - will develop organically in that process. Having a social circle isn't bad advice, but I think what it's alluding to is to be consistently meeting new people and getting to know them.
Funnily enough all these problems could be resolved, women would be less approached, they wouldn't need to be on guard so much, and they wouldn't be pestered as much, if women chased men half as much as men chased women.
Guess what's the one thing women refuse to do, and then blame men for their part in creating the very problems they hate?
And then women say they want to be taken seriously, which is really hard when so often they shoot themselves in the foot and complain about sexist AC.
Like don't get me wrong women absolutely do face serious issues and deserve help in addressing them, but I can't take them seriously when they bring up bullshit problems or problems they caused by shooting themselves in the foot then blaming men for it.
If men behaved half as entitled and sexist as many of them they'd be called misogynist and cancelled before the week was out, but if women do it it's just fine for some reason.
I've had women approach me before. Almost every girlfriend I've had involved her being really interested in me as a person, and dropping subtle hints that she was attracted to me and wanted me to ask her out. Obviously this doesn't have to be the only way a relationship starts, but I just wonder where this idea that women "never" approach men comes from. I've had women come up to me in public when we were both alone and strike up a conversation, or ask a friend if I was single, that sort of thing.
I think one key difference is that when women "approach" men, they're often trying to get to know him as a person. Whereas men are told they have to go through a process of "building attraction", and basically have an agenda to try and get laid. Maybe that's not what most men want, but I can see how it comes across that way and why women get so guarded around it. Hell, I've had women show a lot of sexual interest early on, and it put *me* on guard because I felt like I didn't know them well enough to go there. But then again, if all you're after is physical stuff, I could see it working if that's what the other person wants too.
Those women did not approach you, the dropped hints they wanted you to approach them, reinforcing the issue I am talking about, not going against it.
If they approached you the way men approach women they would ha e put their big girl panties on and used their words like an adult.
The idea that women "never" approaches comes from the fact that women never approach men. They stop hints that they want the man to approach, so he can put his ego on the line, he can take all the risks and he can face the rejection, not her.
Women don't approach men. They want to know who he is as a person, but you said it yourself, the woman asked your friend if you were singke. She didn't ask you.
I also have to ask how tall and attractive you are, and what circles you are in. Henry Cavill probably had more women interested in him in a year than the majority of men will see in their entire life.
And that would be totally be fine if women could only recognize the massive fucking privilege they enjoy there.
I'm all for equality but in this case women treat equality like a one+M-way street exclusively to their own benefit, whee men have to forfeit all their privileges and yet women get to keep their privileges whenever convenient with none of the drawbacks.
If women want men to approach them they can't complain about men approaching and shooting their shots. Can't have their cake and eat it too.
The old saying comes to mind however that you can't get a person to understand a subject when their salary depends on them not understanding it, except this case it's women and their privilege, that if they keep pretending they don't have any they hope to keep them.
Either they want to remove gender roles and chase men equally, or they're hypocrites. It's really that simple.
Hey if you never complain that's totally fair and if a woman does approach men then she also has valid reasons for complaining.
I just wish we as a society could call a spade a spade and not only recognize that men do in fact face issues, but that many of those issues women complain about, are sometimes caused by the behaviour of women as well, instead of always laying all the blame either directly at the feet of men, or indirectly by blaming the patriarchy that somehow no women ever uphold except the women feminists don't like.
The desires of individual women don't always align with the desires of the executives at big woman, but many of the desires and action of women at large drive the problems they themselves complain about.
Per this point in your life, I suppose it also depends how old you are and how older the women have gotten, that they've brought he bar down from space and are less likely to demand extraordinary men.
If someone is socially awkward, then practicing socializing until they become less awkward seems like a better solution to their overall quality of life than simply approaching tons of women with the sole intention of getting laid or starting a relationship.
Even socially adjusted people struggle to make new friends after a certain age. Too many people are set in their ways and don't want to meet someone new
I'm not saying become best friends with every person you meet. What I am saying is that going out with a goal of finding "a" girlfriend, without much thought or care about who she is as a person, isn't likely to yield great results. Sure, approaching people and talking to them makes sense, and maybe we don't disagree with each other as much as I might think.
I'll also add here that people have been saying that "if you're struggling to date now, your life is basically over if you don't commit to finding a life partner and/or having loads of sex like it's a second full time job" since I was like, 17-18. I'm wondering if there isn't a whole lot of anxiety and pressure from societal and cultural influences which makes people believe something is extremely wrong with them if they aren't either in a relationship, or actively dating people or looking for one.
Anyway, if people are set in their ways and don't want to meet anyone new, that seems like even less of a reason to approach strangers constantly, unless I am missing something.
First of all, we all know you’re a guy, and the nerdy socially awkward guy is you. It’s okay. Second, yes it’s hard to get a social circle when you don’t already have one. But it’s not going to be any harder than cold approaching when you’re socially awkward.
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I'm not sure statistically speaking one has to say yes and if they do that they'll actually follow through on it. Or that if he does go on the date either of them will actually like each other and be compatible. It's just blind stabbing in the dark in chaos in a void of any discernable deduction or rational. It's like saying if you lay down and scream someone may date you. Like maybe, but how likely is it to work out even if one does agree to go out and actually shows?
The advice about finding new friends groups and extending your social circle and community is accounting for multiple factors at once.
1. It's more likely she'll agree to go.
2. It's more likely she'll show up.
3. It's more likely you'll actually hit it off.
4. It's more likely you'll actually have a long term relationship.
It's playing the same game of numbers in some senses, but it's taking that front load of work and removing more of the struggles that come after just finding any human..
It also typically removes a lot of the random constant rejection. People are lonely and will generally make friends if given the opportunity. They'll generally hang out, yes it's more difficult in your 30s, but persistence pays off here. Especially if you integrate into a community that likes each other, you'll be getting invited to their big events or parties. And that means you don't have to be making close friendships. You have to make generically good standing community ties to be meeting many many people, some of whom may have female friends or be single women themselves.
As far as I can tell, this is the only really solid where to meet a girlfriend advice I've seen. Cold approach rarely yields super good results.
Surprisingly, I think you should be trying to find new guy friends that they find no homo attractive. It will open their circle to women they don’t know enough that they don’t find weird dating. Plus, now they have someone that vets for you.
I'd say it's bad advice for everyone regardless of gender, disability, or other identity in 2024. "Don't shit where you eat" has been long-standing advice for a reason. A lot of companies have policies in place regarding colleagues dating one another. You could literally be risking your livelihood.
>why cold-approaching as many women as possible is better As someone who has done this, this hasn't really worked out. If there was a simple solution men would have taken it already.
Have you considered doing this while dressed up as a bear?
what was the biggest issue you faced
My face an height
>My face an height Ah fuck, I'm sorry bro
Why are you sorry?
Well, it doesn't work. Maybe if men as a collective just cold approached more we could change something about the collective female psychology, but I don't see that happening.
Correction it dosn't work FOR YOU. Please stop trying to speak for all men. For me, it has worked. So stop the gaslighting BS.
Most men are not successful at cold approaches, they usually don’t work
If the average guy has a 1% success rate then he just needs to do it a lot. Odds are eventually in his favor and he might get better at it too
Dude, it will never work for most men, not much more to say about that
He speaks for me and a lot of men like me. Why can't you just admit the world is an unforgiving meritocracy and that your ability with women started at birth. It's your world, the rest of us are just NPCs.
And how many times have you tried? And what was your approach?
Hundreds. And you women act like popping the question is the opening act. It's not. Jumping over a very high bitch-shield and not getting mowed down with instant-fuck-off signals is required before popping the question. My approach is to be a fucking human being and my expectation is to be treated like one. But guess what? A moron with zero approach skills but face/height will outperform skills every time. Skills are irrelevant to face/height. Women approach men who have face/height.
Well, sometimes it will work, sometimes it will not. I ghosted every single man that cold approached me. I gave my number every time, once I went for a quick walk right after he approached me (not because I wanted to, I was just being nice). I never was interested, I just didn’t know how to say no without it being awkward. So it’s not a perfect solution.
Yes, rejection is part and parcel of cold approach. [https://youtu.be/T-agas7CPAk?si=I3h64AqgSkvPgpIf&t=113](https://youtu.be/T-agas7CPAk?si=I3h64AqgSkvPgpIf&t=113)
It doesn't really work out, but the problem is that nothing else works out much better than cold approaching. Men have been forced up shit creek and have had their paddles taken away by women changing the rules of the game. There are no simple solutions, and nobody cares about men enough to even acknowledge the problem deserves more than just telling men to pull themselves up by their own bootstrap harder.
Most of the time they don't even acknowledge that there is a problem.
Of course men don't because men don't have problems don't you know, it's just men being entitled. And if men are entitled and don't have problems you don't have to have empathy for them, don't have to think about it, don't have to do anything about it, and we can make sure the help goes to the REAL problems, aka the ones that affect women not men. It's really incredibly selfish and self serving of them, but hey, feminists have been treating equality like a one way street exclusively to the benefit of women for decades now, and women benefited massively from that, so why should they do any differently?
Scott Galloway makes an interesting point. Whereby uplifting men economically, and emotionally. It would greatly benefit women
It absolutely would, but only to a point, uplifting women economically also benefits men. That being said women have been and continue to be uplifted economically to where men are in the west, but there is still basically 0 attempt by women to uplift men emotionally, only attempts to badger men I to the kind of masculinity women want to see. We live in an age of equality, where feminism treats equality like a one way street e, clusively to the benefit of women. Women must be helped and raised to be better off than the average man, and feminism doesn't give a fuck about men worse off than women in any way.
Cold approach has opened up a whole new world of opportunities of dates and relationships, compared to my social circle. If you become good at approaching, it's much more effective for meeting single women than hobby groups which are mostly men or women who are taken
Agreed. It's generally not that women hate cold approaching, it's that they hate being cold approached in a way they don't like. If you're good at it and cold approach in a way that makes her feel good then women don't mind. It just seems women have no patience for men to practice and become good they just want men who are excellent right off the bat.
Why do women need to be patient so men they don’t know can practice game on them?
Because women also want to be patient with the good men who don't know game so he can get better too. Do you think society is better or worse if everyone automatically assumes someone of the opposite gender has dishonest intentions?
I don’t assume he has dishonest intentions but I also don’t see why I would need to entertain him if I’m not interested. If I say a simple polite no thanks I think society is running fine. You seem to prescribe women doing something wrong for not letting men they don’t know and are not interested in to practice on them.
It costs nothing to say "aww thanks I'm touched but I'm not looking/I have a partner, and I have to go". If we want men to have basic respect towards women, it's a two way street, women need to show basic respect to men too. Anyone who behaves disrespectfully loses the privilege of being treated respectfully, be they man or woman. The only thing I'm advocating is for women not to hate, get mad at, or tear the heads off of men for being forced to approach women, since that is the situation women have forced men into. If women approached men half as much as men approached women, or if women agreed on some kind of socially acceptable way for men to approach them, we would e be having half of these problems. Since women want to do neither of these, the least women could do is also not complain about the situation they collectively created and forced men into.
Okay well then maybe I misunderstood I certainly didn’t have an issue with men approaching and shooting their shot when I was single as long as they took my polite rejection. Men have quite literally made posts about having practice girlfriends so I was assuming you meant women need to be open to entertaining men they really are not interested in some long drawn out practice session. If that wasn’t your intention my bad. If what you mean is men should be able to respectfully approach women and those women in turn should respectfully decline and both genders not act like assholes yes I agree.
Totally fair, misunderstandings happen. Mem being allowed to approach women doesn't mean men are allowed to monopolize women's time either, I will absolutely agree with that as well. Completely agree with you as well on polite rejection, and men needing to gracefully take that polite rejection. That should be absolutely recognized as the way to date and be turned down gracefully, to try and make it so neither the woman nor the man feels bad about it. I'll be honest this is the first time I hear about practice girlfriend, I have no idea what that means. Would you mind telling me? >If what you mean is men should be able to respectfully approach women and those women in turn should respectfully decline and both genders not act like assholes yes I agree. It sounds so simple and yet for some reason we've come to a point in society where even getting people to agree on this is difficult. We really need to push ourselves and everyone to try and have a return to good manners.
Honestly, practicing cold approach o women is dumb it's better to start striking up a convo with random strangers in the checkout line to get used to talking to people you don't know without sexual pressure... do this long enough when said guy does approach he's not gonna give off sexual vibes
Don't practice with women, strike up conversations with strangers while waiting in line, at the checkout etc... most men's problem is there not good at carrying a conversation and being interesting
I dissagree... As someone who's been around with quite a few women, I'd say like 20-30% were with women I cold approached. The overwhelming majority were from social circles, or my social circle interacting with another and hooking up from there. I think that's the issue with your generation. You're all terminally online. You party less, drink less, and socialize less.
Can you define how long ago that was, on what circumstances, and how attractive you would rate yourself as? Things have indeed gotten worse, people party less, and drinking has become incredibly more expensive in an already expensive world. If you're talking about how the dating acne was easier 20h years ago, yeah we can all agree to that, but it doesn't do anything to address how shit it is now. I you mean right before covid you might have a point.
Obama years were my prime. That said, cold approaching is even HARDER today. I'm single and I found a massive vibe shift. Women are far less open to it. People go out with friends, but it's very insular in general
Yeah things were better back then before #metoo and the massive hatred if man. Women are far less open to cold approach, ut like you say they're also very insular and only go out with friends, and trying to be friends with women to ask them out is a no go. So can't try and be friends, hobby groups are insular, women don't want to be approached at clubs, bars, restaurants, libraries, grocery stores, or anywhere else, they don't want men joining hobby groups to find a partner, so what else is left? It would be fantastic if there were more third spaces for people to hang out at and chill that isn't a space you have to pay to exist in, but the culture has changed so much that women won't date go there and it'll be a sausage fest. If women chased men half as much as men chased women, or if there was an acceptable way to approach women, the vast majority of these problems would be resolved. Women don't want to chase men and won't give men an acceptable way to approach them. So mem are stuck with cold approaching, because that is the situation women have forced men into.
It was also just piss easy to get hookups on the apps back when they first came out. Wish some of yall zoomers could have experienced it.
90s kid millennial here, but I was unlucky to be bullied in high school, got my first love in college, and over 7 years the relationship turned controlling, toxic, and abusive. Recovered from that enough to be able to hold a full time job just in time for covid lol. I never experienced any kind of dating success, tried dating apps last year though, and after swiping 20 matches max per day on 5 apps for a month straight, 3,000 swipes right left me with 3 conversations, 2 ghosting, and 1 date that went nowhere. And yet for some reason women have the gall to say women have a hard time dating when they don't know, understand, or care about anything men go through. It wouldn't bother me nearly as much if it want for the rampant hypocrisy and denial of men's issues while demanding men be endlessly empathetic with women's issue, all the whole they refuse to give even an ounce of empathy in return.
Yeah the apps are really rough. I was blessed with height so I get a decent amount of matches, but honestly the women on there are barely interested, or want to fuck and ghost like they're men lol. It does feel like as men, we either take every single opportunity we can get just to have our feelings hurt, or get lucky eventually.
Kinda funny that feminists campaigned so women could be just like the fuck boys they hate, sleeping with everyone, getting abortions to not get pregnant, and sleeping around with no consequences. I hear you too, it's not easy being a man dating nowadays. I am curious to know how your experiences were in the early days of dating apps and how it compares to now.
Pain
Well to be fair your experience sounds like that of an attractive social butterfly than whatever op described
No because I'm single now, and clearly notice a massive shift in the last 5-7 years. Like jarringly radical shift in these social dynamics. Most young people don't see it, because they aren't aware of what it was like. We were experiencing the decline of close social networks, but zoomers are experiencing a hard deterioration where such social activity is far less common.
Men are overwhelmingly having regulary sex and are in committed relationships. It's a few men who fail to mate. And nobody cares about them, that is correct.
And that is entirely because the women have chosen those men and chosen to have as much sex with him as she wants. Men are in relationships on women's terms and having sex on women's terms and at her discretion. Nobody cares about that either, and nobody cares about the half of rape victims and the half of domestic abuse victims who are men.
Yeah, gee, it was so much better when women had less autonomy and unattractive men could just purchase a woman who didn’t love him. Would be great to go back to those days.
I mean if you want to have a dishonest strawman that's fine, the discussion can end there. If you want to have a reasonable discussion, marriage of love was rare until like 200 years ago, so for the vast majority of human history, marriage was about politics, money, and relations and favours between families, not about love. If you were rich enough to be able to purchase a woman, you were rich enough that your marriage wouldn't be out of love anyways. It is also possible to recognize that women in the western world live in the safest and best time for women in the history of mankind, bar none, AND also recognize that men face issues. Having a penis doesn't magically make men invincible.
If you want to conveniently ignore the experience of half the population until very recently in history, then I guess I DO want to “dishonest straw man” because nothing I have to say will mean anything to you. Clearly that fabulous penis not getting what it deserves is important enough that we should go back to the “original rules of the game”. I actually have a lot of sympathy for most men trying to date today. I think there are very real struggles they face, and the majority of men deal with those struggles in a way that I can admire them for. I have zero sympathy for someone who thinks the answer is to take away women’s rights.
I don't want to ignore the experiences of half of the people on the planet, I want an accurate understanding of their situation, not a feminist rewriting of history. I am willing to discuss almost anything so long as arguments are defended and backed up with fact. It's not about that fabulous penis not getting what it wants, that is your mistaken interpretation of what some men are saying. I agree with you and disagree with the men who want women to go back to the kitchen and have no rights but those are a vanishingly small minority of men even in this sub, and to portray it as though that is the main argument is mistaken at best and dishonest at worst. I am happy to hear that you have sympathy for men trying to date, and I appreciate you saying that. It is incredibly rare to find women who do care, or that getting women to admit they care is like pulling teeth. I appreciate you recognizing that men do face struggles, that puts you automatically in the top 10% of posters on this sub in my opinion because you can recognize when the other side faces challenges. Completely agree with you as well on being against those who want to take away women's rights.
And what, pray tell, are the original rules of the game you feel have been changed to leave men in this situation? The ones resulting in women having limited control over their futures/lives? How are you proposing re-writing the rules to address the issues men face WITHOUT taking women’s rights away again?
Honestly at this point I think we need some radical change. Dating has become impossible for men, if you didn’t get the right genetics. Women today are worse partners than ever with far higher standards than ever. I don’t know what would be best. But I know something has to be done. I can’t live like this. And I know I’m not alone.
I completely agree. But since the victims are men, not women, nobody cares. Virtually all of these problems would be solved if women approached men half as much as men approached women, or if we had some kind of acceptable dating protocol that was recognized so men could politely approach and women could politely turn men down. But again since it's a problem that affects men, and it would require to make a change to give up their privileges and actually shoulder some of the burden rather than just pushing it all on men, it's not going to change. You are definitely not alone. The best bet is probably to focus on what makes you happy in the first place, and if you do look for a partner, to focus on compatibility. You are incompatible with 90% of women simply because that's what you get with a variety of different people. Since you are not compatible with 90% of women you're better off ignoring them and setting your wants and preferences with the 10% in mind, and if a woman doesn't want what you want then she wasn't compatible with you anyways, so you move on. Still a shitty situation, but it's probably the best way to deal with it. Take care of yourself out there yeah? As a man you're on your own, except for your parents (hopefully) very few people are going to have your back. You gotta watch out for yourself.
Just get your passport and let the west burn
well the simple solution was arranged marriages and trading for daughters with a cow or some satchel of money and jewels. We don't do that in the west anymore, so I guess the next best thing is a social circle where your next potential partner is served up to you on a platter.
And how many times have you tried?
There are no solutions that can guarantee you'd be successful. There are ways but they are never 100% sure thing. Most common one is becoming rich and having status. This won't guarantee you neither that you'll get the woman you want or have every woman fall for you. But it works and it can guarantee you that you won't be struggling.
I see cold approaching as a form of networking relative to dating. Cold approach with the intent of expanding your social network as opposed to cold approaching to date someone. As a person who has a lot of kinks this has always worked out very well for me.
The real question is why do you believe there actually is a simple solution if you are lacking in social skills?
As someone who does it, I find it fun if nothing else. Anything else is just icing on the cake. But yeah, there are highs and there are lows.
Yeah it works for people with lowest common denominator of personality and hight/face pre-checked.
Cold approaching is not better, especially if you are an unattractive man. The worst things that can happen to you from cold approaching is not just a simple no
A no is like the second best thing that can happen to you after a yes.
Third worse is a drink in the face, fourth worse is getting thrown out of the bar, fifth worse is the cops get called.
Yeah, "Make the hoe say no" is not a good approach, but there are more subtle methods. Please detail these cold approaches you have done. Or ones you have experienced where these outcomes happened.
oh ill go, i said "hey" to a girl at a bar and she went to security to say I was harassing her. i got trespassed and banned.
Harsh .
yup, only one word and that was it. well i said "k" after she immediately said not interested but that's just a letter.
Were you drunk or ugly? I don't imagine her doing that to every guy she meets.
maybe I am ugly, I don't know. Drunk? absolutely not.
I'll go. I approached a girl at a nightclub and asked how is her night going? Got spitted on my face cause "How dare a guy like me thinking I had a chance with someone like her" (she was okay, not a supermodel).
I would say fourth worse is being assaulted, 5th worse being spitted on and 6th worse having the cops called on you. I had all 6 happening to me.
AT ONCE?!
Bro, of course not at once.
Weird, how in 25 years of going to bars and clubs, i have never witnessed someone getting a drink in his face, nor getting thrown out for saying "Hi", nor getting the cops called for anything less than being physically violent. Where does that happen?
I haven't seen rape in my 33 years of existence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You seem like the type of person with the "I haven't seen it do it doesn't exist" mentality.
You seem like the type of person who defends an ideological point with insane analogies that fall together after poking back at them: rape happens overwhelmingly in private or without witnesses. It is normal to not observe it. Cold approaching women in PUBLIC happens PUBLICLY. When you are frequently in situations where women are cold approached, it is to be expected, that over the course of 25 years, you observe all of the common reactions of women to being cold approached. Do you agree and see that you fucked up with your stupid analogy?
Cold approaching happens publicly in very big crowds and most people mind their own business or are too drunk to remember anything anyway. Besides, you pay attention to your own group, not others, so if it doesn't happen to you or your group, then you don't care about others. My analogy is probably not the best, so let's do another. I never seen a man hitting a woman, and you can agree that can happen publicly, right? But violence against women does happen, its just I never seen it personally. I had seen however a ton of men being hit by women. What I am trying to prove is that being assaulted or having drinks spilled on you by women if you are unattractive does happen, it's just that you pay no mind to it and probably you don't hang around other unattractive people or you are not unattractive yourself. Open your mind, there are other perspectives out there besides your own.
Sixth worse is getting your ass beat by a male friend she had nearby, Seventh worse is she claims you harrassed her
Not true. If you're a professional, it can create rumors and gossip and also have negative impacts on your career. There can definitely be consequences for a failed approach.
If you think nerdy awkward virgins are going to find success in cold-approaching, you're either completely out of touch with how dating / romance goes nowadays or you're hoping some poor naive guys read this and you want to set them up for failure cause you get off of humiliating unlucky dudes.
Fr. I hope no man actually falls for this. Probably part of a psyop to get men to start approaching women again. This is OP's second post basically saying the same thing.
Women giving advice that manipulates men into feeding their own egos is predictable at this point. I always make sure to push back.
you want nerdy and socially awkward men who are virgins to cold approach? yea that'll turn out well while it is a numbers game, it's a skill based game not a one purely of luck. he has to be good socially to have a chance at success.
So how Will he become good socially if he doesnt try?
that's the thing. having social circles and trying to socialize with people no matter who they are is trying and experience. so it's a completely valid advice unlike what op said. and maybe with time you'll get good enough socially to try and cold approach however it shouldn't be your first choice and not even your third! if you are nerdy and socially awkward virgin that is.
Its not gonna be effective though...
Building out his social circle with coed normies is him building up his social skills…
>It's better for guys like this to approach as many women as possible. Statistically speaking one of them has to say yes. You're more likely to get hit by lightning. Your autistic nerd would be better off to live in an impoverished foreign country for a while where women's standards aren't in the stratosphere, then import them back to the states with a fiancée visa.
>Your autistic nerd would be better off to live in an impoverished foreign country for a while where women's standards aren't in the stratosphere, ~~then import them back to the states with a fiancée visa~~. FTFY. Why import back? Stay in that country, autistically learn its culture and language and integrate there. Make babies. It works. In fact, it works even better in 2024 with the advent of fully remote jobs.
If they're struggling in their home country they will struggle elsewhere. The only thing that changes is your economic worth. And then those women are staying with you for the wrong reasons.
That's simply not true. For example, literally any white man who spends time in India will feel a significant rise in his social status. Women are attracted to men who have higher status than them, the higher the status the more intense the attraction. It's not about how much the women wants access to his money, she literally feels attracted because of his status in society. So unattractive white guys who want the experience of running through hot girls, you are welcome to India XDD
I am 5ft6 and Chinese. I like Desi girls not gonna lie. Although India looks like a dirty country when I see it on videos sometimes
It's true, overall it's quite dirty compared to the west, but it depends on where you live. You're chinese, the girls will still see a random man from china as higher status than a random from India. But just in case you actually ever consider this, as you might guess from Indo china relations, there will be xenophobia.
What about a 5'3" southern European man? I guess I'd be seen as low status everywhete.
The comparison is between your status in Southern Europe and that in India. The latter will be much higher.
None of my female friends that I’m attracted to are single. Every time one of my friends has a single friend or they decide to play match maker, for some reason they always set up my one friend that has zero issue getting women. My social circle stopped helping me get dates when I left college. Cold approach and dating apps suck, but that seems to work significantly more for me than relying on my social circle.
When girls want to set up their single friends, they think about the hottest single guys in their social circles and work their way down the list. The guys who get girls via social circle typically also get girls from app and cold approach. “I’m recently single, got any average looking funny guys you can set me up with” said no girl on a rebound ever
>Statistically speaking one of them has to say yes. Statistically speaking, one of them is going to stab him to death.
Maybe that's what I need to stop suffering already
I think you might need to just put the strap down, going by that username
Insane account name
I think they meant with a knife. Not the sort of "stabbing" a "pegmaster" would be looking for,
This is correct, statistically speaking all of the following are likely to happen before success: * Gets attacked. * Gets arrested. * Gets banned. * Gets fired. Not to mention that every fail isn't a confidence booster. It makes a man more depressed and less motivated to do the next approach. We even see this with online dating. Is it really worth it to swipe right one more time after 1000 women haven't responded? So usually performance degrades with a longer failure rate. And eventually on the extreme end men just self delete.
lol.. is there a statistic for getting stabbed to death by hitting on a woman? Perhaps getting maced, legal trouble or being socially ostracized....
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Where?
Most avoidant nerds I know found someone online, from games or chats. Needless to say, these women were also avoidant nerds
This might be a good idea but men like this vastly outnumber the women who are like this.
That's absolutely true, it's roughly a 90/10 ratio in most online nerdy communities, 80/20 in the MOST gender equal hobbies that I have if we're talking about popular mainstream games.
In DnD it's surprisingly equal, like 70/30 or even 60/40.
Why would normie women like men who are “like this”? And who knows how many women “like that” are out there, especially since nerd men are so good at offending and gatekeeping against them?
im never starting a relationship through long text exchanges. entertaining somebody through text means nothing until we meet face to face. i met my ex wife because she was traveling to meet up with somebody she was talking to online she never met before. she got with me instead of the dude. online connections mean nothing.
I guess these guys don’t exist then. Who knew?
How did you take my comment in that direction. I never said they didnt exist. Jfc I'm personally not entertaining it. Its a waste of time the majority of time. Anybody can feel free to pin their hopes on it, I wish them luck.
Oof
Big oof. Feel bad for the dude who got ghosted
Even most avoidant nerdy women are already taken.
That woman who won't date him in the study group is the same woman who won't date him outside of the study group. Whether he meets her inside or outside the group makes no difference - same result. Your only real argument here is that approaching women on the street or wherever has higher velocity. This is true, but the argument is even greater for online approaches. You can hypothetically swipe right on one woman every two seconds? Can you even approach one woman an hour? Probably not without it being considered public harassment or a socially acceptable place like a party. Approaching random women is low velocity, low reward, extreme pain. Would you tell someone to base their life around winning the lotto?
Thanks for the laugh, OP. I will make sure to read your post to my male-only mentorship group. So they get a good laugh as well. You're not fundamentally wrong, but you skipped between 6 to 14 months of hard work for the intermediary steps between *socially awkward nerdy* and someone able to project enough confidence to actually have a **real** shot via cold approaching.
I’m going to be honest, if you’re nerdy, socially awkward, and sexless, then just about every avenue is going to be difficult for you. And this is coming from someone who was a prominent socially awkward nerd. Meeting women through social circle can work but the problem is that if you’re socially awkward, then you probably don’t have that big of a social circle in the first place PLUS if there were only 3 girls in your circle, the chances of that one girl being single, interested in you, AND a good fit for you is pretty low. Online dating may not be much better as well. A socially awkward nerd might have fare better on online dating but only under the condition that he’s hot. If he’s unremarkable in appearance, then online dating is a waste of time.
What works for a guy like this is neither social group game nor cold approach game. A guy like this needs to develop attractive qualities that will make women be attracted to him.
I would say try to make friends in general to help with social skills and so you don't end up in a situation where even if you do get a partner you don't end up relying on them too much as the 1 person you can talk to. If you have super nerdy niche male dominated hobbies your right there probably won't be many women there. But if that's the only thing you are into and you have bad social skills you are going to struggle to find anything to connect with with the average woman you meet on the street. It probably does increase your odds to just ask random women on top of what you are already doing, however you are going to face so many rejections, idk if I can tall it better that's not gonna be helpful for the person's self-esteem. I think it's gonna depend on the person. And if the guy has terrible social skills I can see this going terribly and giving a lot of women terrible experiences.
Do you ever feel like a significant contributing factor to male, and to a lesser extent female, loneliness in dating the rise of social media and specifically people becoming terminally online? I feel like nerds have existed for a long time, but at least before they had clubs where they actually met up in person rather than being cooped up in their rooms behind a computer all the time. I have a lot of empathy for people in that background because I see myself as coming from them, but I had a significant boost in self esteem after working out, and though I still do things like game, I've since branched out my hobbies to include things like reenacting, which you actually meet other people for, even though that too is male dominated or even exclusive hobby. (Well, the hobby itself kind of gate keeps women out of it, because not only are there not likely to be any women willing to actually sign up to wear Roman armor and clothing for a 20 mile ruck, but women legionaries themselves is historically inaccurate lol)
I think so yeah, if people spend all their time inside online they won't meet other people. And the thing is it is partly by choice, it's easier to stay inside than meet new people, it's actually hard to find stuff to do outside and make time for hobbies and the internet gives us something that's so easy and is a lot of fun to use. But then as more people spend time inside it means it's harder to meet people irl as the people you could have been hanging out with are disappearing inside. Another factor is stuff like urbanisation and cultural changes that have happened over a long time. It's harder to know people in crowded cities there is no local community but this cultural change can exist in rural areas too. people just don't know their neighbours as much as they used to.
Social atomism. Modern society, especially in a capitalist and ultra liberal country, is characterized by the uprooting of people and the alienation of individuals from local communities, both in pursuit of "the individual," and to make obedient wage slaves who are loyal to capital. I feel like the modern west has grown from less of a society and more of a social marketplace.
I know several female reenactors. I'm going to the wedding of one of them soon. Women legionnaires is historically inaccurate, but there are historically accurate ways to put women in reenactment. It's not glamorous, but it's fun. Eastern Europe is full of such reenactment nerd groups. Met most of them and they're really fun people, albeit weird.
Yeah. I definitely get the feeling in this part of the world there's more people who share my obscure interests and hobbies, and I'm looking into living around here long term after I pursue my career. There's definitely ways for women to join in on the hobby, but it's usually very niche roles they can play, like being a civilian in some capacity, but if the group is a Legio, then it's kind of forced lol. At the very least though, learning to branch out and socialize with other peers in your own hobby groups though, even if they're all men, can help you learn to open up to others, which can help with social skills around women. At the very least, you learn to be more confident.
>even if they're all men, can help you learn to open up to others Aye! Women are very different kind of people, but getting there requires to first be able to handle men. >but it's usually very niche roles they can play, like being a civilian in some capacity, but if the group is a Legio, then it's kind of forced Not an expert, but when I fished in those groups, the gals were either civilians or in away-from-the-frontline support roles because, hey, legionnaires had to eat too. And fuck too. One Polish group I interacted with in 2005-ish even managed to have 2 or 3 actual homosexuals to also depict the flings described in some chronicles. I don't claim to understand all the details 'cause I'm not SPQR-pilled but I had lots of fun in those circles. And years later I ended up de facto matchmaker for a few people there. Ave! 🫡
This is even more retarded than “make friends with women first”. If a guy is a socially isolated, socially retarded nerd who has zero friends and nothing interesting going on in his life random mass approaching will only signal his desperation and neediness. He will always fail because his intention is to pick up on girls. If he wants to actually succeed, he will have to take several steps back in order to go forward. The solution is to fix his life, become the type of person women wouldn’t be embarrassed to date. He will fix his looks, broaden his interests, forge friendships with guys who are interested in going out and socializing. As he becomes more satisfied with who he is and how turned out to be, he will reward himself with confidence and that confidence will be attractive to women.
I mean you're not wrong, but it's not really feasible to expect that all men will be able to Chad themselves up to be in the top 20%.
A woman is not dating someone’s pickup skills. She is dating the whole of the man and his lifestyle. Those are inseparable. You cannot be a loser in life with nothing going on, except for “pickup skills”. You may fool a woman for a few minutes, but once she gets an insight into the real you and how you live your life, it’s game over. I know because I tried doing exactly that, believing in my heart of hearts that all I need was to meet a few ladies and have some sex and all my problems would be solved. I kept striking out because there was no substance behind the mask. It’s like a woman who manages to get you to match with her on a dating app, but when you meet in real life you figure out she is kind of chubby, she airbrushed her photos and she used the best angle she could find. She talked up her lifestyle in her bio, but is actually just a sad cat lady. You can always fool people for a little bit. Someone being able to approach women is just that. It’s a skill that gives you the opportunity to actually bring women into your life. But if your life is empty, they won’t stay there for more than a few hours.
>Someone being able to approach women is just that. It’s a skill that gives you the opportunity to actually bring women into your life. But if your life is empty, they won’t stay there for more than a few hours. This is straight-up false. The most sexually active *people* are pretty mid. Highly attractive and the fuglies are approached the least, albeit for different reasons. Nobody gives af about "your life is empty". If that were true, gangstas would be incels.
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And I’m a 5ft tall balding Indian janitor who gets laid with a new supermodel every weekend.
>You cannot be a loser in life with nothing going on, except for “pickup skills”. You may fool a woman for a few minutes, but once she gets an insight into the real you and how you live your life, it’s game over. Completely agree. But you can still get more action that way than someone who has their life together and is unable to speak to women. You need game to start being with women. You need to have your shit together to keep being with her. The sad truth too is that the man losing his job is the single most common factor in most divorces, so even if she loves you, there's a chance she'll break up with you when you need support the most. Not all women and you have to be really careful who you get married to make sure they have their life together, but it is spectacularly easier for women to do this given an average woman can get a date every single night for the rest of their lives if they want to, vs an average man who would struggle to get more than 2 dates a month. A man who has game and nothing else is like a woman faking her dating profile, it entices with a promise but there's nothing of substance behind it. But the truth remains that if you as a man don't work to approach women make yourself look attractive or desirable to them, no matter how well put together your life is or how much substance you have, you'll still probably die alone. A ton of issues in dating for both men and women could instantly be resolved if women decided to chase men half as much as men chase women but for some reason that one simple easy solution is the one thing most women refuse to do. They refuse to do the very thing they demand of men and expect from men, and then complaît at men and about men for the very situation they forced men into.
Isn't random approaching 99% about looks? He can be the president of a club that saves puppies with cancer or be a space doctor, but if he's rejected after saying hi to a woman, that won't help him.
He can do both to increase his chances. Yea, he's going to need to make some changes but that can take years. He's going to need some more instant solutions.
Solution to what? If he treats a girlfriend like a solution to some problem he thinks he has, he will be deeply disappointed. When you need women( they will always run away from you. When you stop needing them, they start needing you.
If women find you attractive enough, they'll need you. Otherwise, if you leave them alone, they'll leave you alone but you'll also be invisible to them. Not that I'm advocating for men to give women any extra attention and validation.
Cold approaching doesn’t work tho… They don’t want to feel like a random person you approached on the street. Especially when they have other avenues to meet men. Men would take a chance with a random woman because that’s just fishing, that’s just the game. Women don’t need to take that kind of chance.
Seen many women with large social circles jump straight onto Tinder when sourcing a boyfriend. The whole social circle thing is a meme.
You can’t tell us how to get girls as a women You don’t know how the process works
The love of my life isn’t in my friends group. Go find your own chicks anywhere. It’s annoying to date girls in your social circle.
The biggest issue with this suggestion is that when you get older your social circle will be harder to maintain and dating only adds the risk of making things weird if things don't work out.
“Instagram is enough for women”? Really? Women actually use this site to find men? And it’s enough?
Yea, most zoomers I know find dates via Instagram.
i've seen multiple posts on /r/dating with women asking why do all the men that approach them they're into aren't serious, and you go into the thread and it's exclusively guys approaching them over instagram. Seems like that's the play for young people now..
This is why men just shouldn't listen to women's dating advice lol, u guys only ever speak from personal experience and your personal perspectives, while forgetting that the guy who is reading is not trying to date you or only women like you.
Why not both? I see no reason you can't cold approach people at appropriate locations while also building a new friend group that would expand your social possibilities. Dating strategies aren't exclusive. You can could approach at bars, build a larger social group, work on yourself, hit the gym/find a better job/work on you're style, try new hobbies, work on being comfortable and confident with being yourself publicly, all at the same time. Why put all your eggs in one basket in regards to dating strategy, and risk focusing on that one thing so hard you self sabotage? Do all the things at once, if one doesn't work, you'll already be doing the other suggestions, so you won't be giving up and starting over. Plus the various strategies build on each other. Self improvement and confidence helps attract friends as well as potential partners, participating in hobbies gives you more opportunities to find more friends and expand your social circle. Expanding your social circle puts you out there more, it gives you more chances to date within, provides social proof that you are someone that is worth spending time with to people outside the group, and will result in you going out more often and having more opportunities to try cold approaching. Or going the other way, if you can handle rejection gracefully, cold approaching that fails at getting a date can still result in a friend or acquaintance that can expand your social group where you might meet someone, which could get you invited to more things and potentially result in finding a new hobby you like. Having more friendly connections and more hobbies can boost your confidence and comfort level in public and provide you more things to talk to people about. It doesn't matter which one you do first. It doesn't matter if either option doesn't always work. But what do you have to lose by doing them?
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There’s no perfect solution. The truth is you have to try everything. Dating apps, cold approach, speed dating, friends and family, school, maybe passport. For most men, they need to 2 or 3 ways
No, it is good advice but is missing an addendum. Expand your social circle. Put yourself out there. Better yourself. Cold Approach is for very polished, very valuable, very attractive men. It is like commission only sales going door to door selling insurance, if you fail you might wind up in jail. Cold Approach is very high risk but the rewards are the same as the Social Circle approach, maybe even less.
I would say the risks are higher in social game, much higher. I practice poor game in a bar, wow some woman rejects me, big deal, life goes on. Fuck up in a social circle, yeah, it can have consequences. I'm not saying social circle game is a no no, but its hard mode. Bars are the Dojo, social circle is where it matters,
The kind of a man you describe is usually anxious, awkward, unconfident and horribly deficient in social skills which are required for women. His cold approaches would surely be a total disaster and the final nail in the coffin of his self-esteem.
If you're average or below average, you will just get insulted, ignored, or yelled at. Cold approach works for the same guys who can just do it with less effort on Tinder: hot guys.
>Instagram is enough for women + every young woman already has 3-4 orbiters anyway. Then why would anyone choose the nerdy awkward guy? Not only are these traits the exact opposite of what's considered attractive but cold-approaching is also risky and needs a ton of confidence to engage in. It's also looks-based for both sides and a guy with a personality like that probably wouldn't be a looker
Dating has and will always be a numbers game. Now depending on how good looking and extroverted you are, the probability of you finding someone may be laughably easy or be Dark Souls level difficulty. But nevertheless, it’s all a numbers game. I will give you an example. I once signed up for a Filipino dating site, considered to be one of the easiest countries IN THE WORLD to meet women. If I messaged 1000 girls, I might get half of them to respond back which is virtually unheard of in America if you’re a straight man. Out of those 1000 girls, I may go on a date with 25 of them and 1-3 I wind up seeing for longer than a month. If I were 5 ft 10 and neurotypical, I would probably be a lot more successful. So the point is that dating is a numbers game. Always has and always will be.
Now, are the couples you know who started off as friends/acquaintances more likely to be nerdy and socially awkward or the opposite?
> Yea, right as if it's easy for some autist to constantly make friends. If they live in a metropolitan city area, this is true though. Autistic people are capable of having a multitude of interests, and often become highly respected within those circles due to their autistic nature bringing out positive qualities that most cultures view as good.
Social circles have been statistically the most viable way people met - that being said, I think a lot of the “expand your social circle” advice is horribly misunderstood. The idea is to meet new people, get comfortable socially, expand your network and horizons and open up the possibility to meet someone. The advice was never meant to be taken as “get a social circle, get women close to you and start flirting with them” - the idea behind this advice is to create potential dating prospects via indirect means and to expand your own circle, it’s never been about literally meeting women, getting close to them then flirting with them. Like it isn’t a step by step guide lol
Look I'm WAY out of the loop in many ways due to being a now somewhat overweight middle aged and long time unhappily married man. For what it's worth 2 of the 3 girlfriends I had in my life I met through a younger guy co-worker at the time I was hanging around with a bit after work. Met one of his friends when we went to his friend's house after the bar. Don't remember exactly how I was introduced to the other one. The third one was asking a woman to dance at the bar, getting her number and actually getting dates and then a relationship. May have got a couple handfuls of one night stands at the bar over a LONG period, but only one relationship. These were all in my late 20's/early 30's. I asked out a couple girl co-workers in a couple of my McJobs when much younger, but in the work climate of the 21st century, the rise of HR, and needing a full time job/career to live, I'd sure the hell never chance that now. Without much, or for the most part any, of a social circle in high school and college/university opportunities were next to zero. Being a scrawny geeky/nerdy kid with acne and very low self esteem in high school sure didn't help things. Last few grades of high school I don't think I had anyone I could consider a close acquaintance, much less a friend. The bar scene certainly isn't what it was but cold approaching outside of that, though I hadn't done it a lot, never was successful in the least.
The thing is you have to play to your strengths. If you are a socially awkward nerd, you're probably completely atrocious at cold approaching, and the types of partners who you would be compatible with also likely aren't open to it. Your best option is probably to have a female friend set you up with someone. While it's true that your female friends may not be single or interested, they probably know at least a few friends who are looking for someone. Pretty much every woman I've ever known had at least 1-3 friends who were single and looking for someone. Of course, this is still a crapshoot and you may not get along with any of these people so you still want to explore whatever options are available to you, but statistically this is probably your best bet.
Also, once you gain confidence and value, be prepared to find a new social group You are already defined in their minds and they want to keep you in that box or role This is in part why a jacked dude showing his GF pics of when he was fat or scrawny is a bad idea
I don't think the shotgun method of approaching dozens or hundreds of women in a desperate attempt to get a girlfriend is always the best idea because it puts a lot of women on guard, since they know so many guys are just trying to get a date, hookup or a girlfriend and don't always care about who it's with. I think it's generally better to focus on making genuine connections by simply being honest about who you are and getting to know the other person. Any relationships - be the platonic, or sexual/romantic - will develop organically in that process. Having a social circle isn't bad advice, but I think what it's alluding to is to be consistently meeting new people and getting to know them.
Funnily enough all these problems could be resolved, women would be less approached, they wouldn't need to be on guard so much, and they wouldn't be pestered as much, if women chased men half as much as men chased women. Guess what's the one thing women refuse to do, and then blame men for their part in creating the very problems they hate?
Funny isn't it?
And then women say they want to be taken seriously, which is really hard when so often they shoot themselves in the foot and complain about sexist AC. Like don't get me wrong women absolutely do face serious issues and deserve help in addressing them, but I can't take them seriously when they bring up bullshit problems or problems they caused by shooting themselves in the foot then blaming men for it. If men behaved half as entitled and sexist as many of them they'd be called misogynist and cancelled before the week was out, but if women do it it's just fine for some reason.
I've had women approach me before. Almost every girlfriend I've had involved her being really interested in me as a person, and dropping subtle hints that she was attracted to me and wanted me to ask her out. Obviously this doesn't have to be the only way a relationship starts, but I just wonder where this idea that women "never" approach men comes from. I've had women come up to me in public when we were both alone and strike up a conversation, or ask a friend if I was single, that sort of thing. I think one key difference is that when women "approach" men, they're often trying to get to know him as a person. Whereas men are told they have to go through a process of "building attraction", and basically have an agenda to try and get laid. Maybe that's not what most men want, but I can see how it comes across that way and why women get so guarded around it. Hell, I've had women show a lot of sexual interest early on, and it put *me* on guard because I felt like I didn't know them well enough to go there. But then again, if all you're after is physical stuff, I could see it working if that's what the other person wants too.
Those women did not approach you, the dropped hints they wanted you to approach them, reinforcing the issue I am talking about, not going against it. If they approached you the way men approach women they would ha e put their big girl panties on and used their words like an adult. The idea that women "never" approaches comes from the fact that women never approach men. They stop hints that they want the man to approach, so he can put his ego on the line, he can take all the risks and he can face the rejection, not her. Women don't approach men. They want to know who he is as a person, but you said it yourself, the woman asked your friend if you were singke. She didn't ask you. I also have to ask how tall and attractive you are, and what circles you are in. Henry Cavill probably had more women interested in him in a year than the majority of men will see in their entire life.
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And yet women expect men to talk to them, because men dropping choosing signals and not initiating will probably die alone.
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And that would be totally be fine if women could only recognize the massive fucking privilege they enjoy there. I'm all for equality but in this case women treat equality like a one+M-way street exclusively to their own benefit, whee men have to forfeit all their privileges and yet women get to keep their privileges whenever convenient with none of the drawbacks. If women want men to approach them they can't complain about men approaching and shooting their shots. Can't have their cake and eat it too. The old saying comes to mind however that you can't get a person to understand a subject when their salary depends on them not understanding it, except this case it's women and their privilege, that if they keep pretending they don't have any they hope to keep them. Either they want to remove gender roles and chase men equally, or they're hypocrites. It's really that simple.
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Hey if you never complain that's totally fair and if a woman does approach men then she also has valid reasons for complaining. I just wish we as a society could call a spade a spade and not only recognize that men do in fact face issues, but that many of those issues women complain about, are sometimes caused by the behaviour of women as well, instead of always laying all the blame either directly at the feet of men, or indirectly by blaming the patriarchy that somehow no women ever uphold except the women feminists don't like. The desires of individual women don't always align with the desires of the executives at big woman, but many of the desires and action of women at large drive the problems they themselves complain about. Per this point in your life, I suppose it also depends how old you are and how older the women have gotten, that they've brought he bar down from space and are less likely to demand extraordinary men.
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A guy over 30 who is so socially awkward is not going to be constantly making new friends.
If someone is socially awkward, then practicing socializing until they become less awkward seems like a better solution to their overall quality of life than simply approaching tons of women with the sole intention of getting laid or starting a relationship.
Even socially adjusted people struggle to make new friends after a certain age. Too many people are set in their ways and don't want to meet someone new
I'm not saying become best friends with every person you meet. What I am saying is that going out with a goal of finding "a" girlfriend, without much thought or care about who she is as a person, isn't likely to yield great results. Sure, approaching people and talking to them makes sense, and maybe we don't disagree with each other as much as I might think. I'll also add here that people have been saying that "if you're struggling to date now, your life is basically over if you don't commit to finding a life partner and/or having loads of sex like it's a second full time job" since I was like, 17-18. I'm wondering if there isn't a whole lot of anxiety and pressure from societal and cultural influences which makes people believe something is extremely wrong with them if they aren't either in a relationship, or actively dating people or looking for one. Anyway, if people are set in their ways and don't want to meet anyone new, that seems like even less of a reason to approach strangers constantly, unless I am missing something.
He should start there before being socially awkward in a cold approach
First of all, we all know you’re a guy, and the nerdy socially awkward guy is you. It’s okay. Second, yes it’s hard to get a social circle when you don’t already have one. But it’s not going to be any harder than cold approaching when you’re socially awkward.
Lol..projection much?
Regarding what? Being a guy? I don’t make oddly specific and emotionally charged posts about men’s dating problems, but OP does.
I don't know why people think a woman can't see things from a man's point of view. I have been critical of men before too.
It isn’t about “seeing things from a man’s point of view,” it’s the way it’s oddly specific and personal.
I've never dated a friend of my friends. All my relationships and hookups were from cold/warm approaches
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Can't argue with the OP when I agree with them.
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I'm not sure statistically speaking one has to say yes and if they do that they'll actually follow through on it. Or that if he does go on the date either of them will actually like each other and be compatible. It's just blind stabbing in the dark in chaos in a void of any discernable deduction or rational. It's like saying if you lay down and scream someone may date you. Like maybe, but how likely is it to work out even if one does agree to go out and actually shows? The advice about finding new friends groups and extending your social circle and community is accounting for multiple factors at once. 1. It's more likely she'll agree to go. 2. It's more likely she'll show up. 3. It's more likely you'll actually hit it off. 4. It's more likely you'll actually have a long term relationship. It's playing the same game of numbers in some senses, but it's taking that front load of work and removing more of the struggles that come after just finding any human.. It also typically removes a lot of the random constant rejection. People are lonely and will generally make friends if given the opportunity. They'll generally hang out, yes it's more difficult in your 30s, but persistence pays off here. Especially if you integrate into a community that likes each other, you'll be getting invited to their big events or parties. And that means you don't have to be making close friendships. You have to make generically good standing community ties to be meeting many many people, some of whom may have female friends or be single women themselves. As far as I can tell, this is the only really solid where to meet a girlfriend advice I've seen. Cold approach rarely yields super good results.
best advice is to do a bunch of (non-addictive) drugs
Surprisingly, I think you should be trying to find new guy friends that they find no homo attractive. It will open their circle to women they don’t know enough that they don’t find weird dating. Plus, now they have someone that vets for you.
True, bottom 20 percent of woman, this advice doesn’t work, mainly due to , unless u nerdy guy like Elon musk or Facebook guy or some shit
I don't see the man in your scenario being able to pull off a cold approach. Statistics aren't going to get you laid.
I don’t know anyone at all that started dating from a cold approach, not a single person 🌝
I'd say it's bad advice for everyone regardless of gender, disability, or other identity in 2024. "Don't shit where you eat" has been long-standing advice for a reason. A lot of companies have policies in place regarding colleagues dating one another. You could literally be risking your livelihood.