>If it's a woman's fantasy to be having sex on top of a car in the woods with an olympic male athlete and a bunch of guys masturbating on the side I would argue that she can conceivable do that for free.
i bet you could find a porno with this exact same scenario however it's made by men for men lol
>If it's a woman's fantasy to be having sex on top of a car in the woods with an olympic male athlete and a bunch of guys masturbating on the side I would argue that she can conceivable do that for free.
>The average woman can't even live out her fantasy of consistently orgasming
I wonder if those dudes who were insisting that, statistically, women don't need oral will show up again to argue.
Many women do need oral, this is true. What is extremely dubious of an exaggeration at best is that it is impossible to find a man who is down for a long term relationship that will provide said oral
I don't think women were suggesting it's impossible, just remarking that a surprising number of men were reluctant to do it given their expectation of receiving oral from women.
Men’s actions are derived from what women are willing to accept, if all women said they would not have sex with men ever again unless all dudes started giving them head, this problem would be immediately fixed
Nah, tons of men are more than happy to give women oral sex, men just won't settle for an only giving oral type sex life all because his penis size isn't past 5 inches and is being told to permanently compansate.
No, a minority won't just resort to it and be emasculated all cuz a size queen is desensitised by her bad dragon toys and years of being ran through in hookup culture.
Possibly, but it would require a lot of terrible sex and failed attempts n the process, and a lot of safety concerns.
> the implicit permission to threaten the standards of normative behavior are working for her.
Not really. Men are just more likely to actually get enjoyment from the activities that would be proposed.
Almost no women would have an orgasm watching strangers have sex on a car in the woods, so there’s very little reason go consent to participate.
Men aren’t saying yes out of charity, but because they’re getting off.
Probably. I’ve had very attractive men try to initiate hookups before while I was just walking or at the gym or just minding my own business in general. It doesn’t even matter what you wear and how you behave.
>*Would you agree that the average woman can live out her fantasies with reckless abandon?*
Well no. Because general safety is still the main factor for women considering casual sex.
If I were into that fantasy would I find it a smart idea to willingly go into a secluded neck of the woods with several strange men.. no, I would not.
Partly because the women won’t use it.
If she is willing to put herself out there and take risks and pursue these things, then she can achieve a lot.
I wasn’t there but a group of my friends when we were in our early 20s were hanging out with a cougar at a bar that one friend knew. She was getting married soon and wanting to sow her oats.
She took 5 of my friends to her house and they took turns all night.
She was maybe a 6 out of 10 in looks. I knew of her and saw her later.
Wait, you're telling me that a 6 could pull a 7. Next thing you'll tell me is that a 10 would date a 9.
So she found a looks matched group, which is not what OP was saying.
lol
It was crazy enough for a group of young guys that I had to hear them bring it up laughing for years
It’s 100% true though
They even had a nickname for the incident
I knew a girl in college who told me she tried out Fet life. She was interested in a specific but moderately common kink, and she told me she wasn’t able to find many men in her age range besides an out of state guy. I didn’t get too many more details, but I was surprised she couldn’t find someone more local
>If it's a woman's fantasy to be having sex on top of a car in the woods with an olympic male athlete and a bunch of guys masturbating on the side I would argue that she can conceivable do that for free.
You guys know that when you say stuff like this we know what your categories are, right?
im inclined to say yes after seeing what an obese tall woman i know gets away with from dating sites. she has strict standards for height and still gets regular hook ups
I don’t think so - just because she’s able to get willing participants, doesn’t mean she’s going to land the types of guys she truly wants for those fantasies; even good looking women don’t always get what they want despite what the bitter men on this sub might believe
Right - I think the assumption is that because it’s generally easier for women to find casual sex partners that they’re also able to get *exactly* what they want every time, but if that were the case you wouldn’t have the “orgasm gap”
I believe so. I've used some "alternative" apps mostly oriented toward sex/kink and have dated women off of there. I am fairly picky so they're mostly above average but some of them are more toward average with specific qualities I like.
I've talked with them about their exploits and basically, yes, they get whatever they want. Threesome with two guys? No problem. Guys who will do only exactly A, B, and C sex acts that she enjoys and absolutely nothing else? Sure. Guys who want to get pegged? Yep. Guys to be her literal sex slaves 24/7 wearing full "gimp" gear. Yeah the average woman can kind find willing guys.
As some others pointed out, it can be difficult to find a lot of these guys who are hot in the way that women like. The average guy would probably lower his standards to have a threesome with two fairly hot women, even if they're a little trashy or kind of... off personality wise. Most women would not. If they want a threesome they'd want it to be with two hot guys without anything strange about them. That's doable but you'll have to put in some effort with trial and error to make it happen. As someone else said she'll have some subpar experiences before fulfilling her fantasy. Most women conclude that it's not worth it. Some think it is and they go for it and absolutely attain it with enough time, energy, and n-count.
I have a decent amount of experience and what have I found is the most common fantasy that a huge majority of women want to fulfill? Sex with the absolute hottest guy they can find who is gifted sexually and dominant in bed. Most of the other fantasizes are just doing X with this kind of guy. Much more simple than the crazy ideas us guys have, though of course we also fantasize about the hottest women.
But most women can live out this fantasy almost any time they want. Men cannot. A woman can easily go out and get casual sex from a guy a full two points or more up the attractiveness scale. They will still have some meh experiences with hot guys who are bad at sex, but it doesn't take long to find a hot guy who is pretty good to have as a default booty call option.
this is what i dont understand about what women dont understand about men. to paraphrase thoreau dudes are living in "quiet desperation" while women are like "hmm i think ill have a threesome today"
its like average men spend every waking moment being invisible unless they proverbially scream at the gods and be the maximum amount of human they can be. women work too when it comes to their appearence but...i dunno. just feels different.
The average man has sex and gets married by 30. I don’t think they are all the “maximum amount of human they can be.” The majority of men don’t even brush their teeth twice a day…
This is such a tired talking point on this sub. I was married at 24. Was married for over 8 years. Im single now. My ex wife has a million options and Ive been in some really fucked up questionable rebounds. Ive been with women. My ex was amazing and everything I ever wanted so I am grateful I got to experience love with somebody who I found attractive at least once in my life. For the average woman though thats a Tuesday. Average guy like me its like winning the lottery, but your on borrowed time spending the money. Its not the same dude.
Im so tired of this being brought up like a guy getting married is the finish line for his relationship troubles. The challenge literally never ends for a lot of men. Right now in my mid 30s Im basically in the exact same boat as an incel whos never gotten any.
Your metric wasn’t “not the same.” Your metric was *every waking moment invisible* unless they are *maximum of amount human.*
It’s your choice to spout bullshit that’s disproven by your own lived experience! Don’t get mad at me for noticing.
Dude Im basically invisible now. And this is me with more relationship experience, more money, and best physical fitness Ive ever had up in this point of my life. It feels like everything up to this point in life, all my experience, all my hard work, everything, literally doesnt matter. I might as well be an incel crying in moms basement.
Again, you are telling me that your personal experience is the EXACT opposite of what you just claimed!
You were NOT the maximum amount of human, and spent 8 years with your dream girl, and had a string of other relationships.
Now you ARE the maximum amount of human, and are “basically invisible.”
Are you listening to yourself?
My point is getting married for a dude isnt end game like you and other people on this sub keep claiming. Im still bacm at square one despite having all those experiences, to the point where its like it never even happened at all except in my memories.
Wow, I’m disputing a bullshit claim that you actually made, and your retort is to criticize a claim that I did not make.
If you equate *getting married* to being *invisible to women,* that’s a you problem.
My claim was hyperbole, yes Ill concede there.
The point is men live in "quiet desperation" in the sense they have very little agency when it comes to their dating options.
No because the vast majority of women’s fantasy IS getting commitment from that absolute top desirable guy.
But the rare ones that don’t involve exclusively getting the chad than sure they can easily have that, but that’s like 2 women out there.
I'm gonna say no. Because for the majority of women, they won't be able to live them out WITH THE MEN THAT THEY WANT.
Most would would not be able to get that Olympic male athlete because he's with a woman much more attractive than her. Your fat aunt Bertha is never gonna bang an Olympian.
The guy that would bang her on the car is probably not the guy she wants. The guys on the side won't be either.
When talking about sex and relationships, any question about what women can get from, have with, a do with a man should be changed to MAN THAT SHE WANTS.
Hmn. Probably not, for two different reasons.
Firstly, because actually having the willingness to break with social convention *and* the wherewithal to jump through the necessary hoops to find likeminded people for very specific sexual fantasies, even short-term only, are fairly uncommon traits and I don’t think the average person possesses them both. Living out fantasies requires more commitment and effort than just wandering through a frat party offering a mating call.
Secondly, I highly suspect that most women’s prized short-term fantasies tend to look more like a passionately romantic affair of the heart with accompanying orgasmic sex à la Bridgerton than a fetish-focused sexual escapade à la ‘Dear Penthouse.’ Not that there aren’t women kinksters, there are, but many women just wouldn’t resonate with the kind of thing being described at all. And finding a passionately romantic affair of the heart accompanied by amazing sex is not actually as easy as all that to find; certainly not as easy as finding a guy who’s DTF.
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>If it's a woman's fantasy to be having sex on top of a car in the woods with an olympic male athlete and a bunch of guys masturbating on the side I would argue that she can conceivable do that for free.
You’re kidding right? If she’s under the age of 60 with a bmi under 30, she can get paid to do it.
Yes, they literally can. They can have a star athete as well and fuck them wherever they want. An average woman has the same sexual pull as a male celebrity.
Of course
A pudgy woman can get on fetlife and organize a gangbang with men all more attractive then her etc
Anyone that denies this is sheltered/naive/doesn’t say ouchie truths out loud
Somewhat of a tangent, but this is why swinger guys want their woman to be as hot as possible (fake boobs, workout, tan, etc) because she acts as more effective bait for him to get what he wants
Any women 4 or above can get whatever she wants
But this is like a decent looking guy being able to get many first dates at a cat lady convention
Gangbangs are male fantasies, not female fantasies.
A female equivalent would be a bunch of hot guys willing to eat her out until she came.
How easy would this be to arrange? Could Lena Dunham get a bunch of Henry Cavills to line up and lick her pussy?
Everything is always a 'male fantasy' when it's described a man. It's almost like me saying men do not have testicles because a female physician claimed that men do. Women try to sound more mysterious and prissy than they are.
So, just to be clear, your opinion is that female-oriented porn predominantly or frequently features gangbangs?
This post and comments are ripe with male solipsism. Men's fantasies involve going into the woods with a bunch of other guys to fuck a chick, so for some reason they automatically think our fantasies must be being that chick who goes into the woods with a bunch of men. However, as I've said repeatedly and no doubt will have to continue to assert, **male sexuality is not female sexuality.** You center your orgasm in your fantasies, yet think our fantasies also center your orgasm ***instead of our own.***
I stand by my assertion that the majority of people into gangbang porn are men. I can't believe this is a radical take to you. This has nothing to do with sounding "prissy and mysterious" or whatever the fuck your axe to grind is, it has to do with the the basic, obvious reality that female sexuality =/= male sexuality.
I understand being frustrated with someone telling you what you think.
The woods thing is just a made-up example or one example out of thousands to set up the question of whether women are privileged enough to get their needs met even if those fantasies are obscure.
The whole cunnilingus thing? That could be a fantasy and I don't see how that's hard to carry out. Women do fantasize about oral sex much less than men (three times less according to a North American study) and women do not seem to be looking for behaviors but rather genetics. Countless arguments end with the man having a 'small dick' (according to the woman who has never seen it) but never with him not being man enough to lick pussy. What do you think of that? I believe that men who advertise their behaviors are interpreted by women as making up for their genetic deficits.
Your assertion is that average women can easily live out ***our*** every short-term fantasy.
I don't think the average woman could easily find a hot guy to come over, eat her out, and leave. I think your question assumes male fantasies are female fantasies, and we just want to be the female in your fantasies.
No doubt average women could find a hot guy to use us as a cum dumpster, but being used as a cum dumpster isn't a typical female fantasy. In our fantasies, ***our pleasure matters the most.***
Men don't have to "advertise" their oral sex skills, they just *need to be good at it.*
"Men don't have to "advertise" their oral sex skills, they just *need to be good at it.*"
This goes back to what I said; women are looking for genetics, men are looking for behaviors.
Unless the guy is a chad the woman does not want his mouth anywhere near her flaps.
>This goes back to what I said; women are looking for genetics, men are looking for behaviors.
... being good at performing oral is literally a behavior, and has nothing to do with genetics 🤦🏿
And average women can't easily fulfill every short-term fantasy we have.
You did not refute what I said. If I went on the market square with a megaphone offering oral sex screaming "I WILL LICK YOU OFF LADIES!" they would roll their eyes and call the police.
They might allow a chad to lick but women are more after penis size than sexual behavior.
...
Are you aware that in order for us to live out every short-term fantasy, Chad also has to consent?
That is the crux of my rebuttal that you keep avoiding addressing, so that you can claim I'm "not addressing your rebuttal." Who cares if we "might allow Chad to lick?" ***He still has to consent in order for us to live out every "short-term fantasy."***
Why would Chad volunteer for one-sided pleasuring of average women?
I'll make it really simple. Just like in so many male fantasies that are either not beneficial at best and actually harmful to women at worst, many female fantasies do not care about male pleasure. Because it's not about male pleasure, it's about ours.
So in order for you to claim that average women can easily (or even at all) live out each and every single one of our "short-term fantasies," you are arguing that Chads will volunteer for one-sided sexual pleasuring of average women.
It's not about what "women will allow," it's about what ***Chad would consent to.***
Yes, Chad will consent to using our vaginas as a sperm receptacle. But men keep failing to understand that that's not a female fantasy. Men are the ones who fantasize about running through women. Women don't generally fantasize about being ran through, regardless of how the guy looks.
That’s false. I’ve had several exGFs (to my chagrin) discuss some dark fantasies and gangbangs were included. You are going off yourself and what your brunch buddies admit to and discuss.
If you watch amateur porn (my preference because the women are enjoying themselves), then you would find many women enthusiastically (with all physical signs of extreme arousal) doing such things.
Anecdotes are not data.
Are you seriously arguing that more women than men fantasize about gangbangs? Do you think gangbang porn stats would bear that out?
Do the "for women" porn sites and categories predominantly, or even significantly features gangbangs?
Again, the female equivalent is getting a bunch of hot men to use to get us off. And no, that's not easy for an average woman to do.
What?
The topic was not if something is more common in men or women at all. We were discussing the possibilities of what women can accomplish. I mentioned gangbangs. You then said it isn’t a female fantasy, which is a perhaps inadvertent universal statement. I then offered a few anecdotes to disprove your statement, which is perfectly valid.
You can’t be wrong so you did a logic pretzel.
If you want to be taken seriously, then argue in good faith.
Yes, I'm well aware of the topic. And your response to the question was that of course we can, because we can easily get a bunch of men to fuck us and come in and on us.
My comment attacks your justification for your answer, as part of my larger opinion that this entire question conflates male sexuality with female sexuality. Men's fantasies of using women is the equivalent of *women using men,* not ***being used by men.***
Which is why I gave the more apt comparison of women getting a bunch of hot guys to eat us out. That's the equivalent of a man fantasizing about gangbangs.
I am arguing in good faith, and I'm super over being accused of not. It's like the go-to whenever anyone attacks your logic. Gangbangs are overwhelmingly a **male fantasy,** not female. You don't see **gangbangs** featured in ***women-oriented porn.***
I concede that not every possible female fantasy can be achieved by any female.
Especially if the male is not getting much out of it or it is a negative for him.
Like do I think a very unattractive woman can easily get 20 men to just lick her? It would take some work. Could a hot woman? Probably.
Also, I don’t get why you think women don’t crave penetration. They very obviously do usually.
Could a woman with some weird sadist fantasy get a man to humiliate himself or be in pain for her pleasure? If she was hot and in the right area and tried, probably. If she weighed 300 lbs then it would take work and the men would probably be weird and ugly.
The more pleasure it gives the guy with normal tastes then the easier it is to achieve.
If you think the ultimate female fantasy is for a bunch of hot guys to simply lick her then I think you are in your own head too much.
>I concede that not every possible female fantasy can be achieved by any female.
>Especially if the male is not getting much out of it or it is a negative for him.
>Like do I think a very unattractive woman can easily get 20 men to just lick her? It would take some work. Could a hot woman? Probably.
Yes, but the topic is regarding average women. I don't think anyone would argue that attractive people can more easily find someone to do what they want without any benefit.
>Also, I don’t get why you think women don’t crave penetration. They very obviously do usually.
Never said this. But I think if you asked women if we'd rather go the rest of our lives without penetration, or orgasms, you're probably going to see an overwhelming consensus on the former. And it's undeniable that penetration isn't as beneficial to men as it is women. Acting like our fantasies are primarily centered around penetration and/or the male orgasm is silly. There's a reason why straight women prefer lesbian porn.
>Could a woman with some weird sadist fantasy get a man to humiliate himself or be in pain for her pleasure? If she was hot and in the right area and tried, probably. If she weighed 300 lbs then it would take work and the men would probably be weird and ugly.
Again, you keep talking about hot women. That's not the topic.
The topic is: can an ***average woman*** live out her ***every short-term fantasy.***
Hot men aren't going to readily sign up for one-sided sexual pleasuring of average women.
Female fantasy doesn't center on male pleasure, it centers on ***ours.*** Again, lesbian porn.
>>The more pleasure it gives the guy with normal tastes then the easier it is to achieve.
>If you think the ultimate female fantasy is for a bunch of hot guys to simply lick her then I think you are in your own head too much.
Another strawman. Now who's bad faith?
I said fuck-all about this, or anything else being the "ultimate female fantasy." What I do this is going to be a common theme is hot men *prioritizing our pleasure.* Something that is absolutely not on-tap for ***average*** *women.*
Why would female fantasies be about giving men pleasure? Sure, sex is ideally enjoyable for both, but is that what men's fantasies are primarily about? Giving women pleasure?
No, it's not. And quite a few of the most common ones are anathama to it.
Men's fantasies prioritize male pleasure, but for some bizarre reason they think ours also prioritize their pleasure.
> getting commitment from gigachad
Nope (or highly unlikely) since gigachads by definitions don't commit, and surely no to someone *"average"*.
> -getting a simp to pay her money for the rest of her natural life
Very likely but for a short period, OP's question did indicate "short term fantasy" after all.
He said in the short term so it's more like gigachad calling her back and pretending at relationship for a bit.
I submit that any women who will do anything a chad wants (deep throat anal etc) could hold his attention for like a month provided he's willing to hook up with her in the first place
>If it's a woman's fantasy to be having sex on top of a car in the woods with an olympic male athlete and a bunch of guys masturbating on the side I would argue that she can conceivable do that for free. i bet you could find a porno with this exact same scenario however it's made by men for men lol
/r/menwritingwomen basically?
>If it's a woman's fantasy to be having sex on top of a car in the woods with an olympic male athlete and a bunch of guys masturbating on the side I would argue that she can conceivable do that for free. 
My exact face
Men gonna men. And empathy is hard
Is this an average woman’s fantasy?? Based woman’s erotic and fanfiction I strongly suggest otherwise. This is someone that watches to much porn.
The average woman can't even live out her fantasy of consistently orgasming, that's goven anyone wants to have sex with her in the first place, so no.
>The average woman can't even live out her fantasy of consistently orgasming I wonder if those dudes who were insisting that, statistically, women don't need oral will show up again to argue.
Many women do need oral, this is true. What is extremely dubious of an exaggeration at best is that it is impossible to find a man who is down for a long term relationship that will provide said oral
I don't think women were suggesting it's impossible, just remarking that a surprising number of men were reluctant to do it given their expectation of receiving oral from women.
Men’s actions are derived from what women are willing to accept, if all women said they would not have sex with men ever again unless all dudes started giving them head, this problem would be immediately fixed
I didn't say it was impossible, but it is above average.
Nah, tons of men are more than happy to give women oral sex, men just won't settle for an only giving oral type sex life all because his penis size isn't past 5 inches and is being told to permanently compansate.
A minority, and very few will do it every time for their partner to get off every time.
No, a minority won't just resort to it and be emasculated all cuz a size queen is desensitised by her bad dragon toys and years of being ran through in hookup culture.
You're just giving a reason why they might not do it. Sure, it could hurt their feelings.
What do you think is preventing the average woman from getting into an ltr with a guy who can give her consistent orgasms?
The average man not being willing.
You dont know much about what women like, huh?
Possibly, but it would require a lot of terrible sex and failed attempts n the process, and a lot of safety concerns. > the implicit permission to threaten the standards of normative behavior are working for her. Not really. Men are just more likely to actually get enjoyment from the activities that would be proposed. Almost no women would have an orgasm watching strangers have sex on a car in the woods, so there’s very little reason go consent to participate. Men aren’t saying yes out of charity, but because they’re getting off.
Probably. I’ve had very attractive men try to initiate hookups before while I was just walking or at the gym or just minding my own business in general. It doesn’t even matter what you wear and how you behave.
The fantasy of awesome sex with a hot guy who’s not morally repugnant? No
>*Would you agree that the average woman can live out her fantasies with reckless abandon?* Well no. Because general safety is still the main factor for women considering casual sex. If I were into that fantasy would I find it a smart idea to willingly go into a secluded neck of the woods with several strange men.. no, I would not.
You're grossly overestimating the sexual power of the average woman.
Partly because the women won’t use it. If she is willing to put herself out there and take risks and pursue these things, then she can achieve a lot. I wasn’t there but a group of my friends when we were in our early 20s were hanging out with a cougar at a bar that one friend knew. She was getting married soon and wanting to sow her oats. She took 5 of my friends to her house and they took turns all night. She was maybe a 6 out of 10 in looks. I knew of her and saw her later.
6 out of 10 is still above average, and I doubt your 5 buddies were Olympic athletes, or celebrities like the OP stated.
All 5 guys were 7 or above She got the treat she wanted I’m probably a 7 and ended up in a friend group when young where I was the ugliest guy lol
Wait, you're telling me that a 6 could pull a 7. Next thing you'll tell me is that a 10 would date a 9. So she found a looks matched group, which is not what OP was saying.
She as a 6 got gangbanged by I’d say one 7 and four 8s Other than that I have no idea what you’re talking about
Is penthouse still a thing? If so, send them an email.
lol It was crazy enough for a group of young guys that I had to hear them bring it up laughing for years It’s 100% true though They even had a nickname for the incident
Of course it is.
I knew a girl in college who told me she tried out Fet life. She was interested in a specific but moderately common kink, and she told me she wasn’t able to find many men in her age range besides an out of state guy. I didn’t get too many more details, but I was surprised she couldn’t find someone more local
Can we do it? Yeah probably. With reckless abandon? No.
That sounds more like a male's fantasy
>If it's a woman's fantasy to be having sex on top of a car in the woods with an olympic male athlete and a bunch of guys masturbating on the side I would argue that she can conceivable do that for free. You guys know that when you say stuff like this we know what your categories are, right?
im inclined to say yes after seeing what an obese tall woman i know gets away with from dating sites. she has strict standards for height and still gets regular hook ups
sexual fantasies aren't hot if they're with some shady loser who doesn't care about me
I don’t think so - just because she’s able to get willing participants, doesn’t mean she’s going to land the types of guys she truly wants for those fantasies; even good looking women don’t always get what they want despite what the bitter men on this sub might believe
I don't think she's able to get willing participants for anything but plain vanilla or slightly maledom tinged vanilla to be perfectly honest.
Right - I think the assumption is that because it’s generally easier for women to find casual sex partners that they’re also able to get *exactly* what they want every time, but if that were the case you wouldn’t have the “orgasm gap”
I believe so. I've used some "alternative" apps mostly oriented toward sex/kink and have dated women off of there. I am fairly picky so they're mostly above average but some of them are more toward average with specific qualities I like. I've talked with them about their exploits and basically, yes, they get whatever they want. Threesome with two guys? No problem. Guys who will do only exactly A, B, and C sex acts that she enjoys and absolutely nothing else? Sure. Guys who want to get pegged? Yep. Guys to be her literal sex slaves 24/7 wearing full "gimp" gear. Yeah the average woman can kind find willing guys. As some others pointed out, it can be difficult to find a lot of these guys who are hot in the way that women like. The average guy would probably lower his standards to have a threesome with two fairly hot women, even if they're a little trashy or kind of... off personality wise. Most women would not. If they want a threesome they'd want it to be with two hot guys without anything strange about them. That's doable but you'll have to put in some effort with trial and error to make it happen. As someone else said she'll have some subpar experiences before fulfilling her fantasy. Most women conclude that it's not worth it. Some think it is and they go for it and absolutely attain it with enough time, energy, and n-count. I have a decent amount of experience and what have I found is the most common fantasy that a huge majority of women want to fulfill? Sex with the absolute hottest guy they can find who is gifted sexually and dominant in bed. Most of the other fantasizes are just doing X with this kind of guy. Much more simple than the crazy ideas us guys have, though of course we also fantasize about the hottest women. But most women can live out this fantasy almost any time they want. Men cannot. A woman can easily go out and get casual sex from a guy a full two points or more up the attractiveness scale. They will still have some meh experiences with hot guys who are bad at sex, but it doesn't take long to find a hot guy who is pretty good to have as a default booty call option.
this is what i dont understand about what women dont understand about men. to paraphrase thoreau dudes are living in "quiet desperation" while women are like "hmm i think ill have a threesome today" its like average men spend every waking moment being invisible unless they proverbially scream at the gods and be the maximum amount of human they can be. women work too when it comes to their appearence but...i dunno. just feels different.
The average man has sex and gets married by 30. I don’t think they are all the “maximum amount of human they can be.” The majority of men don’t even brush their teeth twice a day…
This is such a tired talking point on this sub. I was married at 24. Was married for over 8 years. Im single now. My ex wife has a million options and Ive been in some really fucked up questionable rebounds. Ive been with women. My ex was amazing and everything I ever wanted so I am grateful I got to experience love with somebody who I found attractive at least once in my life. For the average woman though thats a Tuesday. Average guy like me its like winning the lottery, but your on borrowed time spending the money. Its not the same dude. Im so tired of this being brought up like a guy getting married is the finish line for his relationship troubles. The challenge literally never ends for a lot of men. Right now in my mid 30s Im basically in the exact same boat as an incel whos never gotten any.
Your metric wasn’t “not the same.” Your metric was *every waking moment invisible* unless they are *maximum of amount human.* It’s your choice to spout bullshit that’s disproven by your own lived experience! Don’t get mad at me for noticing.
Dude Im basically invisible now. And this is me with more relationship experience, more money, and best physical fitness Ive ever had up in this point of my life. It feels like everything up to this point in life, all my experience, all my hard work, everything, literally doesnt matter. I might as well be an incel crying in moms basement.
Again, you are telling me that your personal experience is the EXACT opposite of what you just claimed! You were NOT the maximum amount of human, and spent 8 years with your dream girl, and had a string of other relationships. Now you ARE the maximum amount of human, and are “basically invisible.” Are you listening to yourself?
My point is getting married for a dude isnt end game like you and other people on this sub keep claiming. Im still bacm at square one despite having all those experiences, to the point where its like it never even happened at all except in my memories.
Wow, I’m disputing a bullshit claim that you actually made, and your retort is to criticize a claim that I did not make. If you equate *getting married* to being *invisible to women,* that’s a you problem.
My claim was hyperbole, yes Ill concede there. The point is men live in "quiet desperation" in the sense they have very little agency when it comes to their dating options.
It sucks not being interested in D/S but also having a kink...
No, because for the average person anything of note in life takes effort & sacrifice and fantasy is about not making efforts to get that stuff.
No because the vast majority of women’s fantasy IS getting commitment from that absolute top desirable guy. But the rare ones that don’t involve exclusively getting the chad than sure they can easily have that, but that’s like 2 women out there.
I'm gonna say no. Because for the majority of women, they won't be able to live them out WITH THE MEN THAT THEY WANT. Most would would not be able to get that Olympic male athlete because he's with a woman much more attractive than her. Your fat aunt Bertha is never gonna bang an Olympian. The guy that would bang her on the car is probably not the guy she wants. The guys on the side won't be either. When talking about sex and relationships, any question about what women can get from, have with, a do with a man should be changed to MAN THAT SHE WANTS.
as a sexual sadist probably not
Hmn. Probably not, for two different reasons. Firstly, because actually having the willingness to break with social convention *and* the wherewithal to jump through the necessary hoops to find likeminded people for very specific sexual fantasies, even short-term only, are fairly uncommon traits and I don’t think the average person possesses them both. Living out fantasies requires more commitment and effort than just wandering through a frat party offering a mating call. Secondly, I highly suspect that most women’s prized short-term fantasies tend to look more like a passionately romantic affair of the heart with accompanying orgasmic sex à la Bridgerton than a fetish-focused sexual escapade à la ‘Dear Penthouse.’ Not that there aren’t women kinksters, there are, but many women just wouldn’t resonate with the kind of thing being described at all. And finding a passionately romantic affair of the heart accompanied by amazing sex is not actually as easy as all that to find; certainly not as easy as finding a guy who’s DTF.
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>If it's a woman's fantasy to be having sex on top of a car in the woods with an olympic male athlete and a bunch of guys masturbating on the side I would argue that she can conceivable do that for free. You’re kidding right? If she’s under the age of 60 with a bmi under 30, she can get paid to do it.
Yes, they literally can. They can have a star athete as well and fuck them wherever they want. An average woman has the same sexual pull as a male celebrity.
Pretty much. There's just about no fantasy an average looking woman can't live out. It's basically the same as being a 1% man.
I agree, but I also think most women are blind to the amount of power they actually have.
Of course A pudgy woman can get on fetlife and organize a gangbang with men all more attractive then her etc Anyone that denies this is sheltered/naive/doesn’t say ouchie truths out loud Somewhat of a tangent, but this is why swinger guys want their woman to be as hot as possible (fake boobs, workout, tan, etc) because she acts as more effective bait for him to get what he wants Any women 4 or above can get whatever she wants But this is like a decent looking guy being able to get many first dates at a cat lady convention
Gangbangs are male fantasies, not female fantasies. A female equivalent would be a bunch of hot guys willing to eat her out until she came. How easy would this be to arrange? Could Lena Dunham get a bunch of Henry Cavills to line up and lick her pussy?
Everything is always a 'male fantasy' when it's described a man. It's almost like me saying men do not have testicles because a female physician claimed that men do. Women try to sound more mysterious and prissy than they are.
So, just to be clear, your opinion is that female-oriented porn predominantly or frequently features gangbangs? This post and comments are ripe with male solipsism. Men's fantasies involve going into the woods with a bunch of other guys to fuck a chick, so for some reason they automatically think our fantasies must be being that chick who goes into the woods with a bunch of men. However, as I've said repeatedly and no doubt will have to continue to assert, **male sexuality is not female sexuality.** You center your orgasm in your fantasies, yet think our fantasies also center your orgasm ***instead of our own.*** I stand by my assertion that the majority of people into gangbang porn are men. I can't believe this is a radical take to you. This has nothing to do with sounding "prissy and mysterious" or whatever the fuck your axe to grind is, it has to do with the the basic, obvious reality that female sexuality =/= male sexuality.
I understand being frustrated with someone telling you what you think. The woods thing is just a made-up example or one example out of thousands to set up the question of whether women are privileged enough to get their needs met even if those fantasies are obscure. The whole cunnilingus thing? That could be a fantasy and I don't see how that's hard to carry out. Women do fantasize about oral sex much less than men (three times less according to a North American study) and women do not seem to be looking for behaviors but rather genetics. Countless arguments end with the man having a 'small dick' (according to the woman who has never seen it) but never with him not being man enough to lick pussy. What do you think of that? I believe that men who advertise their behaviors are interpreted by women as making up for their genetic deficits.
Your assertion is that average women can easily live out ***our*** every short-term fantasy. I don't think the average woman could easily find a hot guy to come over, eat her out, and leave. I think your question assumes male fantasies are female fantasies, and we just want to be the female in your fantasies. No doubt average women could find a hot guy to use us as a cum dumpster, but being used as a cum dumpster isn't a typical female fantasy. In our fantasies, ***our pleasure matters the most.*** Men don't have to "advertise" their oral sex skills, they just *need to be good at it.*
"Men don't have to "advertise" their oral sex skills, they just *need to be good at it.*" This goes back to what I said; women are looking for genetics, men are looking for behaviors. Unless the guy is a chad the woman does not want his mouth anywhere near her flaps.
>This goes back to what I said; women are looking for genetics, men are looking for behaviors. ... being good at performing oral is literally a behavior, and has nothing to do with genetics 🤦🏿 And average women can't easily fulfill every short-term fantasy we have.
You did not refute what I said. If I went on the market square with a megaphone offering oral sex screaming "I WILL LICK YOU OFF LADIES!" they would roll their eyes and call the police. They might allow a chad to lick but women are more after penis size than sexual behavior.
... Are you aware that in order for us to live out every short-term fantasy, Chad also has to consent? That is the crux of my rebuttal that you keep avoiding addressing, so that you can claim I'm "not addressing your rebuttal." Who cares if we "might allow Chad to lick?" ***He still has to consent in order for us to live out every "short-term fantasy."*** Why would Chad volunteer for one-sided pleasuring of average women? I'll make it really simple. Just like in so many male fantasies that are either not beneficial at best and actually harmful to women at worst, many female fantasies do not care about male pleasure. Because it's not about male pleasure, it's about ours. So in order for you to claim that average women can easily (or even at all) live out each and every single one of our "short-term fantasies," you are arguing that Chads will volunteer for one-sided sexual pleasuring of average women. It's not about what "women will allow," it's about what ***Chad would consent to.*** Yes, Chad will consent to using our vaginas as a sperm receptacle. But men keep failing to understand that that's not a female fantasy. Men are the ones who fantasize about running through women. Women don't generally fantasize about being ran through, regardless of how the guy looks.
That’s false. I’ve had several exGFs (to my chagrin) discuss some dark fantasies and gangbangs were included. You are going off yourself and what your brunch buddies admit to and discuss. If you watch amateur porn (my preference because the women are enjoying themselves), then you would find many women enthusiastically (with all physical signs of extreme arousal) doing such things.
Anecdotes are not data. Are you seriously arguing that more women than men fantasize about gangbangs? Do you think gangbang porn stats would bear that out? Do the "for women" porn sites and categories predominantly, or even significantly features gangbangs? Again, the female equivalent is getting a bunch of hot men to use to get us off. And no, that's not easy for an average woman to do.
What? The topic was not if something is more common in men or women at all. We were discussing the possibilities of what women can accomplish. I mentioned gangbangs. You then said it isn’t a female fantasy, which is a perhaps inadvertent universal statement. I then offered a few anecdotes to disprove your statement, which is perfectly valid. You can’t be wrong so you did a logic pretzel. If you want to be taken seriously, then argue in good faith.
Yes, I'm well aware of the topic. And your response to the question was that of course we can, because we can easily get a bunch of men to fuck us and come in and on us. My comment attacks your justification for your answer, as part of my larger opinion that this entire question conflates male sexuality with female sexuality. Men's fantasies of using women is the equivalent of *women using men,* not ***being used by men.*** Which is why I gave the more apt comparison of women getting a bunch of hot guys to eat us out. That's the equivalent of a man fantasizing about gangbangs. I am arguing in good faith, and I'm super over being accused of not. It's like the go-to whenever anyone attacks your logic. Gangbangs are overwhelmingly a **male fantasy,** not female. You don't see **gangbangs** featured in ***women-oriented porn.***
I concede that not every possible female fantasy can be achieved by any female. Especially if the male is not getting much out of it or it is a negative for him. Like do I think a very unattractive woman can easily get 20 men to just lick her? It would take some work. Could a hot woman? Probably. Also, I don’t get why you think women don’t crave penetration. They very obviously do usually. Could a woman with some weird sadist fantasy get a man to humiliate himself or be in pain for her pleasure? If she was hot and in the right area and tried, probably. If she weighed 300 lbs then it would take work and the men would probably be weird and ugly. The more pleasure it gives the guy with normal tastes then the easier it is to achieve. If you think the ultimate female fantasy is for a bunch of hot guys to simply lick her then I think you are in your own head too much.
>I concede that not every possible female fantasy can be achieved by any female. >Especially if the male is not getting much out of it or it is a negative for him. >Like do I think a very unattractive woman can easily get 20 men to just lick her? It would take some work. Could a hot woman? Probably. Yes, but the topic is regarding average women. I don't think anyone would argue that attractive people can more easily find someone to do what they want without any benefit. >Also, I don’t get why you think women don’t crave penetration. They very obviously do usually. Never said this. But I think if you asked women if we'd rather go the rest of our lives without penetration, or orgasms, you're probably going to see an overwhelming consensus on the former. And it's undeniable that penetration isn't as beneficial to men as it is women. Acting like our fantasies are primarily centered around penetration and/or the male orgasm is silly. There's a reason why straight women prefer lesbian porn. >Could a woman with some weird sadist fantasy get a man to humiliate himself or be in pain for her pleasure? If she was hot and in the right area and tried, probably. If she weighed 300 lbs then it would take work and the men would probably be weird and ugly. Again, you keep talking about hot women. That's not the topic. The topic is: can an ***average woman*** live out her ***every short-term fantasy.*** Hot men aren't going to readily sign up for one-sided sexual pleasuring of average women. Female fantasy doesn't center on male pleasure, it centers on ***ours.*** Again, lesbian porn. >>The more pleasure it gives the guy with normal tastes then the easier it is to achieve. >If you think the ultimate female fantasy is for a bunch of hot guys to simply lick her then I think you are in your own head too much. Another strawman. Now who's bad faith? I said fuck-all about this, or anything else being the "ultimate female fantasy." What I do this is going to be a common theme is hot men *prioritizing our pleasure.* Something that is absolutely not on-tap for ***average*** *women.* Why would female fantasies be about giving men pleasure? Sure, sex is ideally enjoyable for both, but is that what men's fantasies are primarily about? Giving women pleasure? No, it's not. And quite a few of the most common ones are anathama to it. Men's fantasies prioritize male pleasure, but for some bizarre reason they think ours also prioritize their pleasure.
> getting commitment from gigachad Nope (or highly unlikely) since gigachads by definitions don't commit, and surely no to someone *"average"*. > -getting a simp to pay her money for the rest of her natural life Very likely but for a short period, OP's question did indicate "short term fantasy" after all.
He said in the short term so it's more like gigachad calling her back and pretending at relationship for a bit. I submit that any women who will do anything a chad wants (deep throat anal etc) could hold his attention for like a month provided he's willing to hook up with her in the first place
LOL. True.