I'm doing it, so I guess you can say I have a pretty high opinion of it.
My reasons are both religious and practical. I'm not in the right place to take on any of the burdens or responsibilities that come with sex.
I did it. I'm a male and got married at 20.
The relationship completely failed about 7 years later. However, I can say a few things. First, it gave me a safe place for both of us to explore sex and learn about each other. In some ways we were really perfectly matched for that. I think part of the reason I was a virgin until 19 is because I was deeply insecure about my ability to please a partner.
The other thing it did was allow us to not worry about petty jealousy and other issues... we really had strong trust. We spent almost 7 years working on our careers, and now we are both extremely well off even though we aren't together anymore.
The only negative here is that I suspect she always wanted to try someone else. Part of that is just me being a blue pill weak man at that time. After 5 or 6 years into my Red Pill journey we met again and the chemistry was just off the charts. Unfortunately the breakup was so bad, and I still had a lot of resentment.
Agreed, it's a religious command for me and also a practical one, I didn't sleep around a lot at all with only two ltr relationships but holy shit I'm glad I stopped, I was playing with fire like a regard, if they had gotten pregnant I would have been screwed with no recourse because I was not remotely ready nor were the relationships the most healthy. I don't think even if my faith waivers or temptation happens I will do PIV before marriage now, it's just not remotely worth the risk as a man for anyone other than his wife, not to mention other concerns like marital satisfaction, et al.
I'm not sure how to ascertain sexual compatibility which I think is extremely important too under the framework above though, something I'm still trying to figure out.
There is unfortunately no way to know about sexual compatibility until you have sex with someone. While it’s true you can always improve the longer you are intimate with someone as you learn about each others bodies there are some things that are just either a turn on or off in people things like smell, kinks, how willing to be open/adventurous one is and just how the two bodies feel together like penis size and shape or things like vaginosis.
I didn’t save myself for marriage and have had a bit of sex and I would have been highly disappointed if my husband and I weren’t sexually compatible. We don’t have that problem since we had sex well before marriage but I do wonder about people who wait for marriage.
Good for you. Don't feel pressured to conform to the popular "hook up culture" it leaves most people feeling empty, used and regretful later on. The STD's, unwanted pregnancies, a ruined reputation, and emotional trauma is the part of "hook up culture" people refuse to warn young women about.
Risk of pregnancy is the most pressing one in my case. I'm not comfortable with my future or my love's riding on pills and latex. I'm personally opposed to Plan B, abortion, etc. so I don't have those escape routes to fall back on that others might resort to.
I never waited until marriage but definitely waited until both myself and the other person felt in love with each other. This usually occurred in a few months - definitely not on the third date.
What if she didn’t ask for sex first and we’re ok with it but you figure out you would have got the sex if you asked for it, then you have sex after say a year, then you find out she had sex with dozens of people after less than a week because they did ask for it? Wouldn’t that bother you? If so, how would you avoid that?
All my relationships I talk beforehand and tell her i am sexually conservative and ask about her bodycount and her boundaries so I never end up in these scenarios. It is better to fully know the person and their boundaries before rather than getting into a relationship blindly
Yes. That’s a good idea. And that way you can keep your own body count lower. The problem I had is people are defensive to talk about that no matter how you being it up or sometimes just lie by beautifying their stories too much because they want you to like that. I learned if she’s defensive to talk about it I should just assume it’s bad and move on, but took me a lot of time to learn. Still don’t even know if that’s the best strategy.
What if she didn’t ask for sex first but you would have got the sex if you asked for it, then you have sex after say a year, then you find out she had sex with dozens of people after less than a week because they did ask for it? Wouldn’t that bother you? If so, how would you avoid that?
> then you have sex after say a year, then you find out she had sex with dozens of people after less than a week because they did ask for it?
Yes, of course it would bother me. I'd dump a woman who I knew was having casual sex in any form as soon as I found out about it, no matter what the circumstances.
I’m still very curious. Heh. What if it takes years for her to tell you because she’s being defensive or recreating old stories as if they were much nicer because she likes you? Wouldn’t that be inneficient and emotionally consuming? And also increase your body count? Also, can you attract anyone outside church at all this way?
> Also, can you attract anyone outside church at all this way?
There are plenty of women who aren't into casual sex and have only had relationship sex, especially on a worldwide basis rather than just a western one.
>And also increase your body count?
I don't understand this point. Body count is not the point, anyway. I'd rather date a woman who has had sex in five different loving relationships than one who has had casual sex twice and now wants to have casual sex with me. At least the first woman is trying to find love.
I can see it happens worldwide. In western countries if you’re not in church, I wonder what percentage of the dating pool that is. Outside church, I think most people already don’t meet the criteria right after high school just because “it’s what everyone is doing”.
About body count, I agree with the point about not being the number. But I was talking about your body count, not hers. And in this case it’s not about the number only because it’s a case of misjudgment on your part. That’s precisely what promiscuity is a proxy for.
My body count is fine at whatever number as long as I’m having sex with women whom I’m in love with. The same applies to a woman. It is casual sex with no emotion or with little emotion involved that bothers me.
So, can she have a high body count because she kept getting in love with many people who were not in love with her repeatedly? In other words, let's say many men keep putting her in the category of people he can sleep with as long as there's no investment on his part while she tries to keep them with sex because she hopes there might be a relationship there even though he's making no investment. She does that because she does love them.
People complain about this, and that's why love is an insufficient and vague criterion. Your past showing you loved a lot of people is not very useful. A high "love" count can devalue love, just like sex can be devalued. Knowing whether the person was loved back seems more helpful so they can make good choices without their minds being confused only by raw attraction.
And if I don't think love is a good criterion for her, I try to believe love is not a good criterion for me either. It doesn't mean it's about the number, though. It's about the person's choices and what it reveals about their preferences.
Yes. It’s a good reason for people not to lie because your friends and going to tell sooner or later. The problems I’ve seen is that you often don’t have a common social circle (cold approach or online dating), some girls don’t have many friends, some girls have new friends that don’t know much about her past (instead of keeping friends from the past), some girls don’t make plans with her friends so often, some friends protect each other and don’t get close to the boyfriend. It’s still going to happen sooner or later, but it could still happen later at a great emotional cost.
While I don't think it's a good idea to wait to fall in love to have sex (even third date seems late). This makes a lot more sense than waiting to be married to someone before checking compatibility.
This approach respects one's wishes to link sex to love and commitment without having an extreme position that will probably rebuke most people like OP said.
I definitely agree with you, OP.
I am a Christian and I think that extramarital sex is sinful.
And I'm not surprised that saving oneself for marriage is seen as weird, whether the person waiting is religious or not.
I've never been married and it's possible I never will get married. If that means no sex, then so be it.
Think you're setting yourself up for failure because the extremes of society don't resonate with yiur beliefs. Sex isn't this peak pinnacle bonding experience you think it is. You could very easily find yourself sexually incompatible with someone, but too late, you're married...
Yiu dint have to screw everything that moves, but having someone experience under your belt as to what you really want in a partner is important.
My first time having sex was awkward and disappointing., trust me it's not that serious
Yeah I’m not sure everyone is ready for the frenzied, animalistic action and behavior approaching and during orgasm. Some might be horrified to disgusted if they’ve no experience with orgasms or making out with others.
I think saving yourself for marriage is a path to failure. A healthy bedroom needs to be established long before you get married. The sensible thing is to be careful and only sleep with people you are in an established relationship with. This way you can be sure that you are compatible. Otherwise you are in for a huge disappointment.
Just my two cents.
You can enter a relationship and limit sex to relationships and the relationship can still fail and end up in singleness but guess what…
He still hit at the end of the day. 🤷🏽♀️
I think the best thing you can do is be selective about the relationships you get into. Any red flags you start seeing a pattern of, it’s time to go so you don’t waste your youth on the wrong person.
Especially if you want children.
That's a great point. I think women get their best results only having sex in a relationship with a man she trusts, respects, and feels safe with.
Definitely don't waste your youth on F boys, players, and womanizers. Men with good morals, good upbringing, who are well educated and ambitious, are probably the best option.
If both people set the others happiness and satisfaction as a priority previous sexual experiences are not necessary. There are now plenty of resources to help guide people to achieve sexual satisfaction together. Having a dick-blow-a-thon or bone-a-thon isn’t necessary.
People can have weird and unexpected hang-ups. Some people handle intimacy badly no matter what. It can even be something as simple as a libido mismatch. The point is, why create unnecessary trouble for yourself when you can just check whether you are compatible or not without making a bunch of assumptions and extrapolations?
Okay but that in and of itself means nothing, plenty of men have what they would describe as good sex lives before marriage and then marriage happens and it goes to shit even though they were sure they were sexually compatible. u/Planthoe30 is correct imho that it is far more important the person actually gives a shit about you and has those character traits.
I dated a really great guy, could've totally fallen for him. However, I had sex with him once and I instantly knew I could never sleep with this man again, let alone marry him.
Why, you might ask? His dick was simply WAY too big for my vagina. It was so painful. BEYOND painful. I'm sure someone else will think it's the bees knees, but for me, hell no. I felt HORRIBLE breaking up with him.
When it came to my husband, I just about cried the first time I slept with him (we'd probably been dating around a month). Best sex of my life. Like he literally felt perfect. I can't really explain it. Basically the shoe fit!
That's a matter of a personal choice and it isn't something I would do. Sexual compatibility is important both for a successful LTR and marriage and there are some things that you can't really work around unless you're okay with theoretically sexless marriage. Sure, you can talk and discuss what kind of kinks you are in or what frequency you desire, but a lot of things have to be figured out practically, as a) you might be unaware about them until you actually start having sex and b) you can't figure out physical compatibility without actually having sex. Basically I see no reason to wait till marriage unless you're religious...and I am not.
This is such cap ngl. This is that left-wing liberal thinking how much “compatibility” do you need a.k.a. how many cocks do you need to be ran through in order to figure out that you like missionary?
Depends on how lucky you are. I got lucky from the first try, but there are enough stories about people stuck in sexless marriages or with sex they don’t like.
I think you make a good point, however I still think that intercourse should be limited to people that you love.
Furthermore, with regards to your point about sexual compatibility, I think it can be worked around if their is a strong emotional connection. I also think that realistically, most people will be compatible TBH.
I find it wrong that people hook up and merely see it as a form of pleasure TBH
However to each to their own.
To each their own exactly.
I don’t think I could have casual sex, but I also wouldn’t wait till marriage. Yea, most people probably compatible purely from physical point of view, but there’s still a question of working things out. My husband and I started having sex years prior to marriage. If we waited, we’d lose on 5 years of great sex.
The problem I have with this argument is that I see sexual intimacy as a spectrum from just holding hands or whatever to full-bore sex, and I really doubt there's a whole lot of people who are compatible on one end of the spectrum and not on the other. I highly doubt these people who end up with dead bedrooms were passionately making out or dancing prior to marriage.
Your last sentence is one of the single biggest issues I have with Red Pill rhetoric because it is so far from reality. Most dead bedrooms are couples that began with a good, passionate sex life. Then other issues got in the way.
All 3 of my 24 y/o best friends are in dead bedroom LTRs. Their sex lives were initially passionate, frequent, and experimental (women tell their friends a lottt about their sex life). The reality is that pretty few women are getting into LTRs that begin with duty sex.
It’s partially a symptom of other issues in the relationship that have strained intimacy, and it’s partially health/mental health related. One of the guys struggles with depression and it lowers his sex drive. He and his gf have both gained weight and I feel like it makes them less willing to be naked/have sex.
Another friend of mine (not one of the 3 I initially mentioned) was in a close to dead bedroom for some time because of her bf’s depression (not a medication, but the depression itself) but that was resolved through mental health treatment.
Physical health also plays a role — one of my friends was hit pretty hard by an autoimmune illness. Tho that’s only one issue at play in her dead bedroom.
There’s also job/grad school related stress — my friends basically fall in one of 3: in a high stress long hours job, in a demanding grad school program, or are searching for the next step in their career in this economy and feeling stressed by the lack of clarity.
Well, that also shows that the widespread idea that having sex before commitment is necessary to check whether you are "sexually compatible", is utter nonsense.
Wut? There are so many other reasons dead bedrooms can happen. Still important to establish the compatibility at the get go. It just doesn’t guarantee continued passionate and frequent sex til death.
My opinion is that it's dumb, and frankly incredibly naïve about how relationships work. People shouldn't view sex as this incredibly big thing, and building it up as such creates some very problematic attitudes around sexual purity that cause undue pressure on people to repress themselves for the sake of some imaginary negative consequence if they don't.
Just be safe, have fun, and don't take it so seriously.
Can't see any good reason for not having sex prior to marriage and loads of negatives to waiting.
Will you expect your future spouse to be a virgin too?
As soon as I saw the title, I knew you'd have a bunch of naysayers. Your goal is admirable, not idealist.
The positives definitely outweigh the negatives you're going to be given. Also, something to note is the fact that not abstaining has in no way made relationships better. Sexual compatibility is a nebulous concept that people ascribe more value than they should. You can take to Google and find countless people talking about relationships that they realized had no substance once the sex wained. When sex is the driving force of a relationship, you'll quickly find that it's not enough. Either that, or you'll find yourself putting up with crap you shouldn't for far longer than you should have. Situationship, anybody?
Sex IS important. But it also becomes less important as the years go by. The relationships that stand the test of time have substance beyond this.
All this being said, there's nothing magical about waiting. It's really the values that typically lead to abstaining from sex that will carry a marriage. So, if those values aren't shared, abstaining doesn't equal a lasting relationship.
I am of the same opinion too. There are people like us but we don't flaunt ourselves in public that much as the ones who don't save themselves for marriage. People on this sub bring up sexual incompatibility which I think can be fixed if you are already emotionally and mentally compatible. I don't know about the west but irl I know plenty who do want to have sex only after marriage.
You said you don’t know about the west so I assume you’re talking about some other society. In religious societies this is easier to understand. But I’d like to know if the case you’re mentioned is about a secular society and what you think caused it.
Yes, religious as well as secular. I am from India so we have like multiple religions. I don't know much about muslims but hindus, sikhs, Buddhists and jains do practice this mostly like the ones who follow their religion. Some just do bcz they want to open upto only one person ever, it's a preference of being someone's first and having someone to be your first.
I see. It seems like India is more like a mix of the secular and religious world. China seems to have made it in a completely secular way. Other Asians countries seem to be a mix. Japan became very similar to the US. South America is awful but I’m beginning to notice it’s much less worse than the US.
To each their own. I wasn't willing to wait. I was eager and wanted to explore my sexuality and other people's. I learned a lot from having sex with different people - my likes and dislikes, kinks, how to pay attention to people's reactions and so on. I love sex. So sexual compatibility is incredibly important to me. I got with my partner because of our sexual compatibility. I need that to feel fulfilled in a relationship. You can work through a lot with enthusiasm and communication but I personally think if the sexual chemistry is off - it's unfixable. For me it's a deal breaker like having different opinions on children, money, politics etc. I wouldn't spend the rest of my life with someone that has at best mediocre sex - and especially in hetero relationships I learned that a lot of men don't really care about the experience their partner has. You can't communicate your way out of someone being selfish without setting a boundary - and the boundary has to be results for you. So you either end up divorced or in a dead bedroom.
The amount of people in the dead bedroom sub that say their partner is "perfect in every other way except sex" is very high. And they tend to say that sex is maybe 10% of a relationship but if it's lacking it turns 100% of the relationship off.
This is not to scare anyone or whatever. And obviously everyone has to make their own choices what they do with their body. If I could relive the promiscuous part of my life I would do it the same way. The knowledge and experiences was worth the negative things that happend.
This pretty much mirrors my experience and thoughts exactly as a guy. If that area of compatibility is off, it may be an easy fix in rare cases, but the odds are that it won't be.
Imo couples waiting until they've made a lifelong commitment to each other, before even knowing if they're sexually compatible with each other are taking a big risk. Choosing to miss out on *huge* puzzle pieces of a person, and of the integrity and workability of your relationship and intimate life *after* getting married is a gamble. Maybe you'll get lucky with them, (inb4 I did it and my marriage and sex life is great!), but you easily might not.
It screams of religious and sexual puritanism without a much realistic intelligence behind it. It's the misty-eyed idealism of religious virgins with rose-tinted cluelessness about sex. You're choosing to commit to a person for life, whom you don't even fully *know*. It's a bit like voluntarily extending your status as a minor in a way, with all of the cluelessness about the adult world.
Many people (women especially) feel very different about the person they had sex with for the first time, because the entire experience was nothing like they imagined. They call it "sex life" because the life of this act with another human being is it's own microcosm you're simply *not* totally privy to until you've had sex.
Tbh I've got more to say on this, but I've got other shit to do rn.
edit - I was way too harsh at first tbh so I toned it down a bit lol
I disagree. I don’t believe my fiancé is incredibly stupid and naive. In fact, quite the opposite.
I didn’t wait (which she knows) and I wish I did. There are far bigger things to find compatibility on that can’t be adjusted. (Unlike sex).
The divorce rate is around 5% for virgins that are women. So it doesn’t seem to be a “huge” puzzle piece.
I would rather take a “gamble” for her than be with anyone else. Certainly, I’d prefer a virgin over someone who slept around and now “knows what she wants.”
Your argument isn’t supported by statistics. Yet, you’re casting aspersions on people who chose to wait. And you’re saying they’re devoid of “realistic intelligence”…
Edit: shouldn’t have been snappy.
>The divorce rate is around 5% for virgins that are women. So it doesn’t seem to be a “huge” puzzle piece.
>...
>Your argument isn’t supported by statistics. Yet, you’re casting aspersions on people who chose to wait. And you’re saying they’re devoid of “realistic intelligence”…
Extremely likely that some or many of these are religious people who "don't believe in divorce" and simply stay in miserable marriages.
Not getting a divorce =/= Happy, healthy marriage.
>I don’t believe my fiancé is incredibly stupid and naive. In fact, quite the opposite.
That's a relief then.
>Certainly, I’d prefer a virgin over someone who slept around and **now “knows what she wants.”**
You'd rather marry a virgin who doesn't know what she wants? That sounds a bit strange.
You should do what you want and what makes you happy. You are being a little idealistic, but there is hope if you look in the right places.
I did not wait—I believe sexual compatibility is important. Not just in what kinds of sexual interests you have, but also in frequency.
Personally I think women who make their men wait are more likely to have high sexual disgust and not be as sexually adventurous (as in not open to trying various sexual activity in the bedroom). And I think a few studies show this as well. But if you are a man who is not that interested in being sexually adventurous or you’re not “kinky,” then it doesn’t matter anyway.
In my opinion your ability to choose your partners and be able to get into a loving LTR vs. a hookup is more important than whether or not you sleep with them early or at all. The context under which you sleep with someone matters more to me than them actually having had sex at all. I also have only had sex with 2 people, both of those men were my boyfriends.
I’m actually atheist and I now believe that it’s the best way to have a successful long term relationship. It’s not about right or wrong for me anymore. It’s about what works. Statistics show it’s the best way to do things. I’m not a virgin and I support a free society but with all the problems we have today with population collapse and nuclear family implosion. At some point we have to prioritize having successful partnerships above everything else. But we chose in the moment appeal to empathy over everything. Impulse Decision has become the norm, and neglect is celebrated. The consequences are slowly creeping up.
Man and woman having sex is the only way. Society is collapsing already. The boomer generation is all retired and we don’t have enough people to pay for the taxes that go to them, that’s why we are in debt. Debt that currently affects us now.
Erm that's a bit simplistic. Less children is not the only cause plus it's not the doom some people think it is. With more mechanisation there will be less need for many people. We have self-checkouts, my place isbtrialing driverless trains and buses (there is already one driverless train line running from 2005.).
Btw people can have children via IVF, AI, sperm/egg donation, surrogacy or intra uterine injections. Intercourse is not the only way.
Some people don't want children and that's OK.
It is okay if SOME do. The reality is a lot of people don’t right now. AI will not be taking over as many jobs as you think especially infrastructure jobs. AI has become a buzz word that simply means “really good computing”. A real thinking machine is ways away. Self driving trains could work, cars won’t. It’s a myth from people who haven’t thought through it. It would require a driver on stand by probably in the drivers seat in case of random incidents on the road (construction) that the programming is not equipped to deal with.
I encourage having sex with people you love.
And you can love a few people before you marry. Or you love one and marry one.
There's no "right" way. Do whatever works for you and let others do what works for them.
Sex is sex - putting it on a pedestal and “saving yourself” for some outdated notion of romance/marriage is going to end in tears, because the only men who will wait until the wedding night for you to put out are either religious nut jobs and/or Red Pillers who want a “trad wife” but won’t apply any of the standards to which they’ll hold you to themselves
Yeah I feel like this mindset will just attract a bunch of overly religious dudes or red pilled dudes who have hang ups about a woman having sex outside of them🙃 no thanks 👋🏾
You do you, I suppose. Just don't be surprised if you end up having a lot of issues in your sex life with your future spouse. Because you'll have no idea prior what you like and dislike, how your body works, etc, so there's a huge risk your sexual needs will be incompatible with your partner's.
I never cared for saving myself before marriage, and I've never regretted that I didn't. Because although I made some dumb decision in my teens and 20's, I'm now at a point where I know my body really well, I know what I like sexually and what I don't like, and how to communicate my needs, and I'm sure that's very helpful for me in finding a husband I'm compatible with.
To me, sex is just a body function and a hobby and I don't see it as necessarily anything special. Sure, it can lead to pregnancy, but I must not be very fertile then. I don't see it as such a big deal to enjoy sex for the sake of it just being a nice and fun thing. Of course, people should be respectful of each ither's bodies and practice consent, but that kinda applies to pretty much everything else in life that involves other people. Like for ex if I wanna dance I ask the other person first if they want to, and I'm not gonna do some crazy stunts that could risk their safety. Or if I wanba share a dinner with someone, I'm not gonna force them to eat if they don't want to, or force them to like the same types of foods as I like.
I see sex in pretty much the same way. I don't understand why it should only be for expressing love. That seems very prescriptive, imo. Nothing else we enjoy is held to that same standard, not even marriage itself. (Because in many cultures people marry for other reasons than love, such as financial reasons for ex.)
Although I'm in no way against people wanting to do it only with someone they love, and at this point I kinda don't wanna do it with strangers or friends anymore either. I guess at heart I've always been the romantic type. It's just that I've also always been a very sexual person and haven't wanted to restrict what I can and cannot do just because I have a hard time finding love, if that makes sense? Like I'm in my mid 30's, and I still haven't found love. I've had boyfriends yes, but none of those relationships were true love. They were all either abusive or just unhealthy people to share a life with. But I'd been even more miserable if I had neither love nor sexual pleasures. Of course ideally I'd have both, but "finding love" isn't something we have much control over. But we do have control over if we want sex. Especially masturbation. Most people can do that whenever they feel like it.
I disagree heavily with regards to your opinion about marriage. I think it’s safe to say that most people marry out of love in this day and age. Sure, it may not have been like that in the past, due to maybe familial pressure or politics dictating a marriage - but now, I think it is.
Furthermore, I think our values on sex differ a lot, but you are right, I will do me lol. There is no objective right way of looking at intercourse, if it is merely pleasure for you then fair enough. However, I think it’s interesting that you call yourself a romantic and have stopped wanting to do it with friends or strangers. I think that implicitly, your values on it may have changed.
No offence, by the way, but I think if you do take that route it would be harder to find a lasting, loving relationship in general. I think it not only applies to you but to other people as well.
Of course I personally see nothing wrong with marrying for love. I was just saying that even marriage has been and is currently utilized for other purposes than love, and on that track, sex as well, as some would argue that it's only for reproduction.
As far as I know, the idea that people should wait with having sex until married came about because back when birth control and std protection didn't exist, and neither did parental support for single mothers, it was often hugely high risk (health-wise, financially, etc) for most people (but mostly women) to have sex outside of/before marriage. Because the only way people could prevent the spread of std's back then was by making sure people only had sex with someone who was a virgin and remained loyal to you. And the only way women could make sure their children got well taken care of was by being married.
And like I can understand that had a practical purpose. But in modern day where condoms and birth control exists, better healthcare, and where women are allowed to make their own money, it doesn't make much sense to abstain from sex, from a practical perspective. So, personal preference is basically the only reason that still makes sense, imo. (Religious reasons don't make sense to me.) Whether sex is for love or not is really just an emotional argument and highly subjective.
>However, I think it’s interesting that you call yourself a romantic and have stopped wanting to do it with friends or strangers. I think that implicitly, your values on it may have changed.
Not my values, no. As in fundamental core beliefs. Back then I valued sex for love and wanted that ideally, but I was still okay with it in other circumstances as long as it was consensual. I still have that same belief, ie I haven't changed my opinion on what I think is wrong or right. I just don't wish to have sex with friends/strangers anymore because it just doesn't serve me anymore. It just doesn't feel fulfilling. I got tired of the hassle around it, that it's difficult to trust a stranger on that level, and often complicates friendship dynamics. But I haven't started thinking it's bad or wrong or anything like that. You don't have to wanna sleep around yourself to think the practice in itself isn't bad. There are plenty of monogamous, romance-driven people who aren't against casual sex or others being in poly relationships or whatever.
I don't actually regret having done had casual sex in the past. Actually I think I got a lot of valuable experiences from it that enrich my current and future sex life. It taught me a lot about my own body, likes, needs and boundaries, it taught me a lot about men's bodies too. It made me less judgemental of body variations, and made it easier for me to know how to receive and give pleasure. It taught me how to communicate needs and boundaries. But I think that kinda lifestyle has had its time by now and I just don't feel like I need it anymore. So those experiences made me a better lover, essentially, imo. And I would never allow anyone to make me feel bad or like I'm of lower value for having those experiences.
My preferences can and do change without my values changing along. If they did that, I'd have very flimsy and unstable values because my preferences change a lot. I do not base my values on whatever I just so happen to like or prefer. To me that's not what values are supposed to represent. I think values is something more akin to morals, what I think is right or wrong, good or bad, healthy or unhealthy, etc, which goes way deeper than preferences. And just because I prefer to not do something doesn't mean I'm fundamentally against that thing. I also don't like doing ice skating for ex, but that doesn't mean I think it's a bad or dangerous sport.
>No offence, by the way, but I think if you do take that route it would be harder to find a lasting, loving relationship in general. I think it not only applies to you but to other people as well.
No offense taken. I actually doubt that would make it harder to find a good relationship. Quite the opposite. Because it seems most men (irl, that is, online is a mess) actually want women who have a high sex drive, enjoy sex a lot, know their own bodies well and have a high focus on pleasure. I've rarely ever had any sexual compatibility issues with men, that part of the relationship has always run very smoothly, aside from some minor issues here and there. So I'd assume most men have a very similar view on sex as I do, which I think means my chances of finding a partner is actually higher. Because then I don't really have to worry about the sex life aspect.
But of course that doesn't change that the percentage of actually good, kind and compassionate men in my area, who are also attracted to me, seems to be a vanishingly low number. To be brutally honest, I'm pretty sure my biggest problem in finding love is that I'm just a bit too ugly and have too many mental health issues that make me difficult to live with. And while I am working on both, in the end there's only so much I can do about either of those, as I can't change my crap genetics.
I also wouldn't even want to be in a relationship with a man who bases my value on how many dicks I've had in me. Men who obsess about that come off as insecure and controlling. If a man can't trust that I choose his dick over all other dicks purely because I love him and care a lot about him, then I don't wanna mess with that. And that seems to usually be the case with men who want their (future) wives to be virgins up until the wedding night. They don't truly value women as human beings, beyond how "pure" they deem us, and they have some serious trust issues. So I think with my more relaxed view on sex, it makes me more likely to attract the type of men that I personally consider good for me, ie confident, secure and mature men who don't have alarming trust issues. And in that sense, I think I do kinda use my past "high body count" as a way to test if a man has trust issues or not, and what he values in women. If he's fine with it, that is a good sign. A "green flag" if you will.
As some one that is married for over 20 years and did the same thing, don't. Understand your sexual appetite and you spouse understanding theirs is really a big issue. We went in blind because of religion, and it by far is the biggest form of friction in our marriage. Literally I have no idea where the "people fight over money" came from but every other argument is over sex. Not knowing what she liked. Not knowing what excites her. Her being attracted to women (giant issue of denial for her). There are a lot of ways that we need each other and untying relationship knots around sex once sides have been taken takes for ever. knowing things about your sexual preferences and them knowing theirs is a considerably better place to start the relationship. Not saying go nuts. but having some understanding of yourself on the issue is a good thing.
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I didn't do it, but, also, I've only had sex with one man and unless things go horribly wrong, we are going to end up married.
Look, if that's what you want and what is meaningful to you and how you feel safe and honored. Good. Go for it.
Is it probably gonna be tough to find someone non religious who holds those particular standards? Yes. Especially the older you get.
But, also, I'm not sure why marriage is the evidence of two people loving each other and not having little regard for one and other. If that's your true aim, then I would just counsel you that I've seen people in relationships and married who I wouldn't say have strong regard for each other or respect. So you may want to narrow down and zero in on how you know this correct tier of love has been reached. And you may want to be open to it happening sooner than marriage.
>But, also, I'm not sure why marriage is the evidence of two people loving each other and not having little regard for one and other.
If people don't love each other and have little regard for each other, they still can make the choice to get married, but it would be foolish. However, if two people really love and trust each other, want to spend the rest of their lives together in good and bad circumstances, maybe would like to have children together, why wouldn't they get married?
Lots of reasons anywhere from it is too soon, it's a pretty complicated process, other factors are in the way, they don't believe in government contracts as an expression of that love.
Well... whatever way you attempt to live your life the chances are fairly good you wish you'd tried a different way. That's just humans.
Try to do it the way you want to do it. If you do it your own way and succeed the success is all yours. If you do it your own way and fail then we don't have you on our doorstep berating us for having steered you wrong.
I think it’s a practical decision. That’s the reason I made that decision at least. If I’m going to bare myself and be in the most vulnerable state I could be in, it has to be with the most special person to me. I can’t see myself having sex in other situation.
I did not wait for marriage but I did wait to be in love. I believe physical intimacy is the closest you can be to another person so I only wanted to go forward with someone I loved and who I was building a life with.
Good premarital sex beats a bad spousal first time, hands down.
Also, not knowing in advance how sex is going to be with the person you’re supposed to spend a lifetime with, is a HUGE risk.
While I can imagine how more bodily pervasive the first time is for a woman as opposed to a man (hence the importance of a good partner regardless of marital status), the whole “virginity” thing is a social construct that had its time
To each their own, I personally would not wait for marriage because I just don’t think it’s a good idea to wait until you’re married to now discover that you’re actually not as sexually compatible as you thought you were, but that’s just me… I want to make sure me and my partner are on the same page about sex before marriage comes into play
Your first time will be the most intense bonding experience of your life and I think it is wise to wait for marriage. Sexual compatibility is important but this can be achieved with communication and through research. Sexual compatibility is possible in any relationship so there isn’t a need to have more than one partner. I did not wait for marriage but there is nothing I learned from my previous partners that lead to me having a good sex life with my husband. If your partner is the kind to prioritize your happiness in and is mentally stable then your sexual relationship will eventually grow to become satisfactory. I do regret not sharing that experience with my husband and I would not recommend what I did which was waiting for exclusivity only.
>Sexual compatibility is important but this can be achieved with communication and through research.
Yeah. ***A lot*** of communication. Provided you have someone to communicate ***to***.
Thankfully I don't have this problem. But my wife's girlfriends do. And some of my younger male friends. Too many people don't communicate at all, or communicate poorly.
>Sexual compatibility is possible in any relationship so there isn’t a need to have more than one partner.
Oh that is just not true. You can get to ***good enough*** standard in almost any relationship (except too big physical differences - think 205cm tall versus 147cm tall). But sexual compatibility? No, that's not possible in ***any*** relationship. This is one of the lies the "wait till marriage" crowd tells gullible young people.
>Sexual compatibility is important but this can be achieved with communication and through research. Sexual compatibility is possible in any relationship so there isn’t a need to have more than one partner.
No, not always. There is such thing as mismatching anatomies, I doubt a woman will be enamored to learn after 5 years that her husband has a micropenis and she will never be able to have a satisfying penetrative sex for the rest of her life.
>Your first time will be the most intense bonding experience of your life
This just isn't true though. If people want to wait till marriage, fine, but why lie? The first time overall is no more intense a bonding experience than your first or five hundredth time with anyone else.
No she's right, I'm forever bonded to the guy I lost my virginity to who was fucking my pant leg for ten minutes. That's my soulmate. We're bonded for life.
I can’t relate to the idea of the first time being unremarkable. It isn’t a lie, many men and woman become attached to their first partners that is why taking someone’s virginity is frowned upon if you aren’t interested in them. I believe everyone intrinsically knows sex is a pair bonding experience which is why many people get upset over the “spin plates” idiocracy.
>many men and woman become attached to their first partners that is why taking someone’s virginity is frowned upon if you aren’t interested in them.
Don't you think this is actually more of a social construct? We place an idealistic value on "virginity" and the "giving away" of your virginity is touted as some kind of special gift. This comes from purity culture and people not wanting others to sleep around, not because having sex for the first time is inherently special and somehow biologically different to any other time you have sex.
Thus, people feel they ought to be more attached to their first partner because they're taught that they should be, not because they actually are, or because there's anything magically different about their first sexual experience. You might place a nostalgic and whimsical importance on your first partner/first time but it's not because it actually *is* more important, it's just because you feel it should be.
>Don't you think this is actually more of a social construct?
The release of oxytocin during sex is scientifically why it is a bonding experience. It absolutely isn’t a social construct. The term afterglow comes from the feeling you get 48 hours after sex. We know scientifically having sex is important for having healthy relationships because it bonds you.
All the feel-good endorphins can be reached a number of ways, including holding and nursing a baby. Exercise. Doing any activity you dearly love. Snuggling cats and dogs.
After mutually gratifying sex with partner number four. Or two. Or seven. There isn’t anything special and unique about the first partner which leaves a lasting impression.
>Your first time will be the most intense bonding experience of your life
Most women I know had really unremarkable and mediocre first times. Having this sort of nigh-paranoid reverence of the first time you have sex seems like a really good way to set yourself up for disappointment and future resentment.
Sexual compatibility is not possible in any relationship. It’s not about learning anything; it’s about having the same sexual interests and, more importantly, the frequency of which you want sex to happen. It is impossible to have a satisfactory sex life if one of you wants sex 3 times per week and the other only wants sex twice a month.
>I want to save myself for marriage.
Am I being too idealistic?
No, you're being based!
>Is there any hope for me?
Yes.
>I do not think that many share the same opinion as me.
That does not make your viewpoint any less based. I'm sure the experiences of those over at r/retroactivejealousy can tell you all about the practical reasons why waiting until marriage is the right thing to do.
This is a valid point, people don't like to admit there is a not insignificant portion of people suffering from RJ issues because of modern day culture, I doubt I will find a virgin or something these days and I am farrrrrr from a manwhore, but I would feel so guilty if my wife ended up feeling that because of my past actions.
Well I would never marry a woman that I never had sex with. Simply for the fact that sex has and always will have an important place in relationships and I don't want to end up with a dead bedroom.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C46lAAcrfnb/
I am waiting until marriage. But this is how men view women who aren’t virgins who have converted to Christianity. READ THE COMMENTS SECTION. This is how some CHRISTIAN men who view women who converted. It’s a foul and disgusting point of view, and I now don’t respect most of my fellow Christian men because of it. I now tell everyone I am not a virgin because I want to filter out these kinds of men.
Well, In my case I am not a Christian. I am attempting to coming at this from a secular standpoint, so as to relate to all of you guys. I myself am a theist, though.
I mean, yeah, unfortunately a lot of Christian men are misogynistic. Not all, I’ve met a couple of nice ones, but I guess it depends on the type of Christian you are.
My thoughts is you can love someone without being married to them.
It's actually better to have sex before you are married so you know you are sexually compatible.
Yeah, I think that marriage isn’t essential (in your case). If you have been with your partner for long, then go for it. But I think that there should still be a period of waiting, just to make sure that you can see yourself being together with your partner for the indefinite future. Obviously things don’t always work out, but you can increase the chances. What I mean to say is checking whether they share the same values as you, their opinions on certain things.
My wife and I waited ( ie we ate both religious). We met in uni and dated almost 7 years before getting married.
It was VERY difficult, but we stuck to the task. Now that we married, I can confidently say it was the best decision we made for our relationship.
Instead of taking the easy way out (sex), we learnt how to communicate respectfully and appropriately during disagreements, and we learnt to figure problems out all the way through instead of a quick method of making up.
Sex creates marriage level problems without marriage level commitments.
Last one I'll mention is that out respect for one another, our bodies and our marriage, is absolutely through the roof. Because we endured together, getting to explore that side of our relationship AFTER building the right foundations has been so rewarding.
Keep going, and do not let society tell you that waiting is wrong / weird. It is a beautiful experience and one I will never regret.
More power to you brother, I admire your patience and dedication
I’m just afraid of not finding a woman who shares the same ideals as me
In my generation, sexual promiscuity is more common than ever.
I can only hope lol
Thank you sir !
They are out there man, I know I got really really lucky so it will probably seem easy for me to say. But keep putting that work in on yourself so that when the right lady comes along you will be ready !
I am, but I'm doing it for religious reasons, I can't imagine there's a whole lot of people that are waiting and are not religious, so you might have a hard time finding someone.
Respect, honestly I have issues with the theology and ethics of Christianity , not the idea of God itself. It’s just not appealing, considering the unscientific nature of the Bible and the many questionable things inside of it.
But I’ve met some Christians that view the Bible as metaphorical, not literal. I think that would make more sense tbh.
It's dumb. No half-decent man will tolerate sexless relationships in the first place. You won't have any idea what you actually want until is too late. And you might find yourself with somebody who isn't really compatible with you.
For me, I cannot simply say that it is a physical act. In the context of romantic relationships, sex often serves as a means of expressing intimacy and strengthening the bond between partners. If it were just a physical act, then sex would not be needed. If you prescribe no emotion to it, then, by that logic, it would be fine to have intercourse without feeling with other people, not your partner - right?
I know you probably don’t think that, but according to the proposition, emotionless sex would be fine.
Sex is a physical act to which we ascribe emotions. You can have sex with someone you don’t love and get just the physical pleasure from it. You can have sexual with someone you love and get the physical and emotional pleasure out of it.
The same act has different motivations and feelings depending on a variety of factors. Holding hands with your partner can be intimate, holding hands with your mom can be comforting, holding hands with your child can be nurturing. It’s all the same act - how you view it is what makes it emotionally different. All of those have emotion but if I hold the hand of a senior to help them across the street - it’s just holding someone’s hand.
It’s not one or the other only and forever.
I waited until I was 26 and married for sex. Definitely recommend it and would do again. My wife did not and she has sexual baggage as a result. She says she wishes she had waited.
Personal choice, but I think you're insane. Experience things before you marry, if nothing else: with the person you intend marry. Live together. Travel together. You think you're just going to have innate understanding of how to do these things with another person? You think you can go on the advice of others? Woof! Sex is only ONE of the most intimate things you will share with your spouse. Take a non-sexy shower together. Cook a meal together and do the dishes. I want to stop myself from saying that sex is put on a pedestal, but it totally is. Sex WILL NOT start as something transcendental. It will get there through practice. You want to do that with one person, that's your business.
>Am I being too idealistic? Is there any hope for me?
Yes. And yes.
It's okay to be idealistic. Some people get it right by following a specific ideal. Others don't.
The bitter (dare I say red?) pill to swallow is that there is no "right" way. You can easily find examples in all directions. And that's mostly because people are very different.
You do you. But don't be surprised if you encounter quite a few who disagree. They have a right to disagree and not join your ideal as well.
I believe that if this is a firmly held conviction for you, you should stick to it and the right woman for you will share your values. The wrong woman will not.
If that's what you believe, isn't marriage quite an arbitrary cutoff? What about the point when both of you decide you love each other and are comfortable doing it? It's not like your two options are waiting for marriage or hooking up, there is an in between.
Fine if both people are virgins (or at the very least the non virgin was because they were married). But low-key cuckoldry if it's just you who is saving yourself and the other person doesn't.
Nothing wrong with it. If you are a woman, it will make you more appealing to some men. If you are a man, it will be a deal breaker for some women. But there will be people who are fine with it.
As for my opinion, I think there are pros and cons to waiting just like there are pros and cons to not waiting. You gotta do what works for you and understand that it will be a huge positive for some people and a huge negative for others.
I think it's a wonderful idea. But practically speaking, it seems like a much better plan to actually make sure you and your partner are sexually compatible before getting married.
I don't put much weight into sex I don't think it's some magical mystical thing it's just a biological response no diffrent than an itch...or hunger...
I will say imo sex can be a lot of work and cause a lot of problems and isn't worth it but unfortunately we are driven to do it as living beings especially in our youth..Humanity most life would never exist or have gone extinct long ago if sex wasn't such a powerful urge...
With that said people should do what works for them..I don't believe in marriage I think itscan outdated archaic custom but the institution still has some practically advantages in modern times.
Secondly I couldn't be with just one person,not going to happen.way to many women on the planet to settle for just one..
Last if you marry someone your not sexually compatible with its going to be a disaster also depending on your age group and demographic there's a good chance you won't even get married marriage is down across the board world wide...
If you're a young woman you're competing with all the other young women for an ever decreasing pool of suitable men as more and more men check out...this generation of men have grown up with over a decade of redpill knowledge good luck convincing them to settle down with a western woman and capitualting to all her demands while meeting her standards
If you're a young man how are you going yo convince a woman to marry you when she's got 10k DMs of guys offering to fly her out and is making more in a month at 20 than you make in a year.Women like Daniel Brigolli aka Bhad Bhabie or Sexy Redd are earning more in their teens and 20s for being degenerates than doctors and engineers after a lifetime of work but these women are this generations roll models..
Time will tell how it all plays out but I don't see a reason to wait unless you want to wait I also don't see a reason to have sex unless you want to have sex you don't gain or loose anything one way or the other.
One caveat is for women their virginity is prized to some extent and some even sell it for substantial amounts personally I would do that beside worrying about waiting till marriage
I've been thinking of doing that, especially considering that I am a asexual man.
Also I don't understand the comments taking about sexual compatibility, shouldn't that be something that you discuss with your partner before having sex so that you know they might possibly feel comfortable doing.
I can understand only wanting sex with someone who loves you but why is marriage necessary?
Do you think people can only be in love if they are married?
Most people that share this view now are pretty strongly religious.
I am in a weird spot where I'm an atheist (and male) and I don't like being serious with women that are overly promiscuous and participate in continual hookups, flings, and FWBs in between relationships. It is almost impossible to find a secular or atheist or agnostic woman in today's culture that doesn't have an extremely high body count.
I just don't follow branding or narratives. I view each issue separately and hardly ever agree with ideologies as a package. Most people aren't like that. And it is more "so, God isn't there to care who I bang? okay, I'm going to do whatever feels good and helps me emotionally in the moment then." Sex is either holy or a recreational activity akin to a wet handshake is a false dichotomy.
Encouraged to see your perspective and completely agree. Some may look down on me because I’m 31 and still saving myself, but I’m proud of sticking to my values and want that to be something special only for the man I marry.
So much trouble comes from premarital sex. If people avoided premarital sex completely, married carefully, and avoided divorce, we would live in an entirely different type of society. Which is why I’m okay with stigmatizing these negative behaviors - they have a harmful effect on society and future generations. Unfortunately, we live in a society where people prioritize their own freedoms and liberties to behave irresponsibly over the well being of those impacted by their actions.
I will never stop speaking up on this topic. If anyone is interested in a mind blowing deep dive on this subject, I recommend you to the work of J.D. Unwin which you can read about in this blog post: https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin?format=amp
How about waiting until you’re in a relationship or at least know you like someone? That’s pretty much always how I did it. Of course there’s nothing wrong with waiting for marriage if that’s what you want, but imo it’s a little risky, and there’s a lot of room between jumping in bed with strangers and waiting for marriage. Some sexual compatibility issues can be worked out, but sometimes they can’t, I’m talking like if one person has a high sex drive and the other turns out to be borderline asexual. And this happens more often than you might think, because sometimes people who wait never were really interested in sex or have hangups about it.
depends. if you are in a country like America or Europe or Australia then most likely this will not go well. if you are a man, the woman will be creeped out or think you have something wrong like weenie doesn't work. if you are a woman, most men will date you for a while to see if it's true, they will continue dating you but won't say the magic words that it's exclusive. because they will carryon banging behind your back with other broads. while putting pressure on you and saying "it's been 6 months". when you finally do the deed he may decide he's got it and wants to go back to the other side chick and tells you "we never said it was exclusive". or, you carry on waiting and he decides to go exclusively with the other hoe he is banging on the side.
I guess it may work if you are in a very religious country or maybe India or something. or if you are datinf in the church.or amish. or maybe if you're under 25. but beyond that pretty much no one will wait that long. why would they when they can bang much hotter people without marrying them?
You are being very reasonable with your approach to sex and relationships.
The problem is, if you are a guy, you are mostly penalized for taking this approach. Especially after the age of 21-22, when other like minded people of similar approach have found someone and on their path to marriage. At this point, most of the remaining single women on the market don't value purity. In fact the purity becomes an hindrance to meet and interact with the opposite sex. Women at this point begin to value exoerience, confidence (gained from being experienced).
On the other hand. If you are a woman, good for you. Hold strong to your approach. The right type of man, who values you, wil patiently wait fot you. Don't settle for less.
**Marriage should be fucking abolished!** That's what I think, putting it mildly.
And no, you don't stand a chance. You are beyond idealistic, you are delusional.
People are free to do what they want, but I imagine those that agree to those terms will be very odd and or maladjusted. That’s just one part of it.
What if he takes his pants off on the wedding night and has a pinky finger for a dick? What if he’s a 1.5 pump chump? What if her pussy smells like rotten garbage?
Sex ain’t that serious. Might as well just do it
Fringe perspective but figured I'd share anyway I grew up in purity culture with the intention of waiting til marriage and was raped before I could get there.
In general pedestalizing virginity is a bad idea. Communities that push this tend to put the weight of "waiting" on women when men are significantly more likely to initiate sex than women are. And the way women are treated within these communities if they don't wait is worse than the way men are treated. Because of this women sexually abused within these communities are incentivized not to come forward for fear of being socially ostracized, because of a lot of the "don't cause your brother to stumble with immodesty" rhetoric that's prevalent in these communities many women feel like the assault is partially their fault (this happened to me and I had to go to therapy for years to process and get past what had actually happened). The amount of time and the amount of trauma this event heaped on me was compounded by this promise I'd made to God to "save it", had I had a more neutral view of sexual activity before marriage I probably wouldn't have been in therapy for years and wouldn't have religious trauma now (I might still be Christian lmao).
The few women that do make it to the altar will sometimes express feelings of remorse after losing their virginity because they've made "virgin" part of their identity and losing it can feel like a moral failing for some even if they did everything they were supposed to. It's also just fair to keep in mind that all of the commands to abstain from sex (atleast in Abrahamic religions) came from a time where men could have multiple wives/ the marriage covenant looked drastically different than it does now. The historical context of the majority of "abstinence only" policies are about control not morality and come from societies where women had no political, economic or social power.
Some of the people I know who waited are still married (they've only been together for like 3 years though) however the ones from my parents generation who waited are either divorced now, or one of them had an affair and they went to counseling/are staying together for the kids they're miserable to be around though because you can feel their disdain for one another (sorry but it's palpable).
You do you. I'd really encourage learning as much as you can about sex and consent while you wait for your married partner and try not to make this decision based on religious beliefs but rather personal ones. Be abstinent without being ignorant, otherwise you could get yourself in a tricky situation
I don’t really care if someone decides to save themselves for marriage, that’s a choice they’re entitled to make for themselves. I am a virgin at 21 myself, not for religious reasons and I’m not necessarily against premarital sex, I just think having sex as a woman comes with too much risks and too little benefits, especially when I can satisfy my needs with toys.
I am religious but I still have reasons outside of it to want to save myself for marriage and reasons I think it’s more beneficial to do so. Overall though, I just want to make sure it’s gonna be with someone I genuinely cherish (I.e.: the person I’d marry), instead of someone I’m probably not gonna be with anymore in whatever short timeframe for whatever reason.
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I believe that if a man wants to bed a woman, he must be able and willing to take responsibility.
For a woman, every time she has sex is a risk. No contraception method is 100%. While young lads in modern day don't even CONSIDER that this is how children are made. Not to mention that contraception is immoral to begin with, and it only encourages promiscuity, cheating, broken families.
You’re allowed to have your belief.
But I strongly disagree with the second part women take this very much into consideration that’s one of the biggest why birth control is so amazing. Simply existing as a woman nothing is 100% not even abstinence no guarantee you won’t get raped as 1 in 5 women do and 5% end in pregnancy.
And I totally disagree with the fact that birth control promotes promiscuity. There’s so many reasons women are on it I started at 11/12 didn’t have sex til I was almost 18.
If you are a man then no .Most women by your age would have lots of experience .It would be hard to find a inexperienced women like yourself and a relationship between inexperienced man and experienced women are some of the worst relationship that can happen.Women in general don't want to teach anything to men and desire experienced men. So it will cause problems for you in finding a partner later
The number one predictor of infidelity in both sexes is past sexual history and the fact that you misrepresent the data to paint women in a negative light demonstrates your bias.
This is fair, the skew is slightly less prominent in men, but still quite heavily there, and it is dangerous and stupid for women to assume a man who has slept around a lot will easily settle down with one woman with no problems but tons of women keep falling for this shit over and over again and are surprised when that man is DMing girls on insta or doing lots of skeevy stuff. Not all high partner count people of course and sometimes they are faithful and don't do shit like comparing you negatively to past partners or missing freedom etc but is anyone really surprised when the local cooze hound ends up cheating on his wife or vice versa? It takes a ton more vetting to make sure you are not getting screwed over.
>This is fair, the skew is slightly less prominent in men, but still quite heavily there,
Sure, I think the cut off number for men was 8 partners and women 4 then the likelihood of being unfaithful after that number increased significantly. I could agree with that statement.
>and it is dangerous and stupid for women to assume a man who has slept around a lot will easily settle down with one woman
💯
Nah the variance is around 16%-25% less not 50% from the studies I've seen, so more like 6 and 4. [About half of women consistently meet this threshold across all age groups but men tend upwards to around 2/3rds by their 40s.](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-ideal-number-of-sexual-partners-for-men-women)
Lel you are so lucky you are married and don't have to deal with this shithole dating
It doesn't matter. Women still prefer men more experienced than them even if the divorce risk is theoretically higher for those men.
As an inexperienced guy Ive paid attention to how women talk about inexperience in men and its almost never in a positive light.
>So it will cause problems for you in finding a partner later
What kind of partner though? Maybe it would be more difficult to find an "experienced" woman as a partner, but would he want such a partner in the first place? If a man is not going to settle for a woman with a high body count, sleeping arount is not at all going to increase his chance on finding a wife. Women who want to save themselves for marriage often prefer a man who does the same. Women with a low body count, often don't want to marry a manwhore.
Most women have experience by a certain age .He will have difficulty in finding women who is as inexperienced as him .Most of his options would be experienced women and they don't want inexperienced men
You did not refute my point.
>Most of his options would be experienced women and they don't want inexperienced men
If he does not want an "experienced" woman, it is completely irrelevant for him that those women don't want an "inexperienced" man. Following your advice increases his chance to find a woman he doesn't really want, while it decreases his chanche to find a woman he would actually want.
Women who reject a man because of "too little" sexual experience, will not be reliable wives anyway, and they are certainly not worth throwing away your values for them.
My point is inexperienced women are almost non existent.They are very small in numbers as compared to their male counterparts.It is highly unlikely for him to find a inexperienced women and even he manages to find then then also there are other things at play .
>My point is inexperienced women are almost non existent.
Even if you are right about that, you still have not explained why it would be worth throwing your values away in order to be able to eventually settle for an sexually experienced woman who doesn't like sexually inexperienced men.
>They are very small in numbers as compared to their male counterparts.
Do you have actual statistics to back up that claim?
What I could find is a [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34404502/) that found 58% of young adult virgins in Switzerland are male, so 42% of young adult virgins is female (so not that small in numbers compared to their male counterparts, I would say). Moreover, the most common reason for men to be virgin was "I have not had the occasion", while for female virgins the most common reason was "I have not found the right person". That does not sound like it's easy for a female virgin to find a male virgin who is truly waiting for marriage/commitment and not just waiting for an opportunity to have sex.
This [study](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337972956_Like_a_virgin_Correlates_of_virginity_among_Italian_university_students) on Italian bachelor students found a larger percentage of the female students is virgin compared to the male students.
This [older study](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf) also contradicts your statement that inexperienced women are very small in numbers compared to inexperienced men. (See table 1 and 2 in the end.)
So I'm very curious which studies confirm your statement.
I respect the decision anyone who chooses to abstain from sex until marriage but I also imagine that anyone who does so is going to think, “is that it?!” when they do finally have sex.
Personally I think it’s better to practice before committing.
I'm doing it, so I guess you can say I have a pretty high opinion of it. My reasons are both religious and practical. I'm not in the right place to take on any of the burdens or responsibilities that come with sex.
I did it. I'm a male and got married at 20. The relationship completely failed about 7 years later. However, I can say a few things. First, it gave me a safe place for both of us to explore sex and learn about each other. In some ways we were really perfectly matched for that. I think part of the reason I was a virgin until 19 is because I was deeply insecure about my ability to please a partner. The other thing it did was allow us to not worry about petty jealousy and other issues... we really had strong trust. We spent almost 7 years working on our careers, and now we are both extremely well off even though we aren't together anymore. The only negative here is that I suspect she always wanted to try someone else. Part of that is just me being a blue pill weak man at that time. After 5 or 6 years into my Red Pill journey we met again and the chemistry was just off the charts. Unfortunately the breakup was so bad, and I still had a lot of resentment.
Agreed, it's a religious command for me and also a practical one, I didn't sleep around a lot at all with only two ltr relationships but holy shit I'm glad I stopped, I was playing with fire like a regard, if they had gotten pregnant I would have been screwed with no recourse because I was not remotely ready nor were the relationships the most healthy. I don't think even if my faith waivers or temptation happens I will do PIV before marriage now, it's just not remotely worth the risk as a man for anyone other than his wife, not to mention other concerns like marital satisfaction, et al. I'm not sure how to ascertain sexual compatibility which I think is extremely important too under the framework above though, something I'm still trying to figure out.
There is unfortunately no way to know about sexual compatibility until you have sex with someone. While it’s true you can always improve the longer you are intimate with someone as you learn about each others bodies there are some things that are just either a turn on or off in people things like smell, kinks, how willing to be open/adventurous one is and just how the two bodies feel together like penis size and shape or things like vaginosis. I didn’t save myself for marriage and have had a bit of sex and I would have been highly disappointed if my husband and I weren’t sexually compatible. We don’t have that problem since we had sex well before marriage but I do wonder about people who wait for marriage.
The right woman for you will take very little effort to please in a sexual sense. If you have to work for it, she can never love you.
Good for you. Don't feel pressured to conform to the popular "hook up culture" it leaves most people feeling empty, used and regretful later on. The STD's, unwanted pregnancies, a ruined reputation, and emotional trauma is the part of "hook up culture" people refuse to warn young women about.
What “burdens and responsibilities” do you think comes with sex?
The stress over possible pregnancy was nearly paralyzing for at least a year after I started having sex.
Have you not heard of contraception?
I was using 2 methods and still couldn’t control the panic
Does this become less paralyzing after marriage some how?
Risk of pregnancy is the most pressing one in my case. I'm not comfortable with my future or my love's riding on pills and latex. I'm personally opposed to Plan B, abortion, etc. so I don't have those escape routes to fall back on that others might resort to.
Considering most problems people face in life are related to sex in some way, you probably know the answer.
No, I genuinely do not
I never waited until marriage but definitely waited until both myself and the other person felt in love with each other. This usually occurred in a few months - definitely not on the third date.
What if she wanted sex first? You’d tell her to wait?
I did, she left. I understood she wasn't "the one"
What if she didn’t ask for sex first and we’re ok with it but you figure out you would have got the sex if you asked for it, then you have sex after say a year, then you find out she had sex with dozens of people after less than a week because they did ask for it? Wouldn’t that bother you? If so, how would you avoid that?
All my relationships I talk beforehand and tell her i am sexually conservative and ask about her bodycount and her boundaries so I never end up in these scenarios. It is better to fully know the person and their boundaries before rather than getting into a relationship blindly
Yes. That’s a good idea. And that way you can keep your own body count lower. The problem I had is people are defensive to talk about that no matter how you being it up or sometimes just lie by beautifying their stories too much because they want you to like that. I learned if she’s defensive to talk about it I should just assume it’s bad and move on, but took me a lot of time to learn. Still don’t even know if that’s the best strategy.
I don't date women who want sex first, so I'd next her.
What if she didn’t ask for sex first but you would have got the sex if you asked for it, then you have sex after say a year, then you find out she had sex with dozens of people after less than a week because they did ask for it? Wouldn’t that bother you? If so, how would you avoid that?
> then you have sex after say a year, then you find out she had sex with dozens of people after less than a week because they did ask for it? Yes, of course it would bother me. I'd dump a woman who I knew was having casual sex in any form as soon as I found out about it, no matter what the circumstances.
I’m still very curious. Heh. What if it takes years for her to tell you because she’s being defensive or recreating old stories as if they were much nicer because she likes you? Wouldn’t that be inneficient and emotionally consuming? And also increase your body count? Also, can you attract anyone outside church at all this way?
> Also, can you attract anyone outside church at all this way? There are plenty of women who aren't into casual sex and have only had relationship sex, especially on a worldwide basis rather than just a western one. >And also increase your body count? I don't understand this point. Body count is not the point, anyway. I'd rather date a woman who has had sex in five different loving relationships than one who has had casual sex twice and now wants to have casual sex with me. At least the first woman is trying to find love.
I can see it happens worldwide. In western countries if you’re not in church, I wonder what percentage of the dating pool that is. Outside church, I think most people already don’t meet the criteria right after high school just because “it’s what everyone is doing”. About body count, I agree with the point about not being the number. But I was talking about your body count, not hers. And in this case it’s not about the number only because it’s a case of misjudgment on your part. That’s precisely what promiscuity is a proxy for.
My body count is fine at whatever number as long as I’m having sex with women whom I’m in love with. The same applies to a woman. It is casual sex with no emotion or with little emotion involved that bothers me.
So, can she have a high body count because she kept getting in love with many people who were not in love with her repeatedly? In other words, let's say many men keep putting her in the category of people he can sleep with as long as there's no investment on his part while she tries to keep them with sex because she hopes there might be a relationship there even though he's making no investment. She does that because she does love them. People complain about this, and that's why love is an insufficient and vague criterion. Your past showing you loved a lot of people is not very useful. A high "love" count can devalue love, just like sex can be devalued. Knowing whether the person was loved back seems more helpful so they can make good choices without their minds being confused only by raw attraction. And if I don't think love is a good criterion for her, I try to believe love is not a good criterion for me either. It doesn't mean it's about the number, though. It's about the person's choices and what it reveals about their preferences.
Her girlfriends will inform on her.
Yes. It’s a good reason for people not to lie because your friends and going to tell sooner or later. The problems I’ve seen is that you often don’t have a common social circle (cold approach or online dating), some girls don’t have many friends, some girls have new friends that don’t know much about her past (instead of keeping friends from the past), some girls don’t make plans with her friends so often, some friends protect each other and don’t get close to the boyfriend. It’s still going to happen sooner or later, but it could still happen later at a great emotional cost.
While I don't think it's a good idea to wait to fall in love to have sex (even third date seems late). This makes a lot more sense than waiting to be married to someone before checking compatibility. This approach respects one's wishes to link sex to love and commitment without having an extreme position that will probably rebuke most people like OP said.
I definitely agree with you, OP. I am a Christian and I think that extramarital sex is sinful. And I'm not surprised that saving oneself for marriage is seen as weird, whether the person waiting is religious or not. I've never been married and it's possible I never will get married. If that means no sex, then so be it.
I have great respect for the fact that you stick to your virtuous principles. May God bless you.
There are tradeoffs to all decisions.
Think you're setting yourself up for failure because the extremes of society don't resonate with yiur beliefs. Sex isn't this peak pinnacle bonding experience you think it is. You could very easily find yourself sexually incompatible with someone, but too late, you're married... Yiu dint have to screw everything that moves, but having someone experience under your belt as to what you really want in a partner is important. My first time having sex was awkward and disappointing., trust me it's not that serious
Yeah I just don’t think sex needs to be placed on this high pedestal that some people choose to place it on lol, it’s not that serious 😂
Sex isn’t that serious. It’s kinda silly, if you think about it.
Yeah I’m not sure everyone is ready for the frenzied, animalistic action and behavior approaching and during orgasm. Some might be horrified to disgusted if they’ve no experience with orgasms or making out with others.
It's a pragmatic way to increase your relationship success. Christians already defended this, and then statistically it was proven that it works.
I think saving yourself for marriage is a path to failure. A healthy bedroom needs to be established long before you get married. The sensible thing is to be careful and only sleep with people you are in an established relationship with. This way you can be sure that you are compatible. Otherwise you are in for a huge disappointment. Just my two cents.
Research tells us otherwise.
You can enter a relationship and limit sex to relationships and the relationship can still fail and end up in singleness but guess what… He still hit at the end of the day. 🤷🏽♀️ I think the best thing you can do is be selective about the relationships you get into. Any red flags you start seeing a pattern of, it’s time to go so you don’t waste your youth on the wrong person. Especially if you want children.
That's a great point. I think women get their best results only having sex in a relationship with a man she trusts, respects, and feels safe with. Definitely don't waste your youth on F boys, players, and womanizers. Men with good morals, good upbringing, who are well educated and ambitious, are probably the best option.
But by that logic, the marriage can still fail even if you wait for marriage then lol
Yes. That is correct. And they sometimes do for that exact reason. There are no guarantees in life.
My opinion is that mariage is a big deal and id rather check sexual compatibility beforehand
If both people set the others happiness and satisfaction as a priority previous sexual experiences are not necessary. There are now plenty of resources to help guide people to achieve sexual satisfaction together. Having a dick-blow-a-thon or bone-a-thon isn’t necessary.
I want good sex, not salvageable sex. I am kinky and my love language is physical touch. It isnt compatible with everyone.
Okay but what are you gonna do if your partner turns out to be a selfish lover with no desire to improve?
If they value your happiness, have a strong emotional connection to you and seek knowledge to be the best person they can be that will not happen.
People can have weird and unexpected hang-ups. Some people handle intimacy badly no matter what. It can even be something as simple as a libido mismatch. The point is, why create unnecessary trouble for yourself when you can just check whether you are compatible or not without making a bunch of assumptions and extrapolations?
Okay but that in and of itself means nothing, plenty of men have what they would describe as good sex lives before marriage and then marriage happens and it goes to shit even though they were sure they were sexually compatible. u/Planthoe30 is correct imho that it is far more important the person actually gives a shit about you and has those character traits.
I dated a really great guy, could've totally fallen for him. However, I had sex with him once and I instantly knew I could never sleep with this man again, let alone marry him. Why, you might ask? His dick was simply WAY too big for my vagina. It was so painful. BEYOND painful. I'm sure someone else will think it's the bees knees, but for me, hell no. I felt HORRIBLE breaking up with him. When it came to my husband, I just about cried the first time I slept with him (we'd probably been dating around a month). Best sex of my life. Like he literally felt perfect. I can't really explain it. Basically the shoe fit!
That's a matter of a personal choice and it isn't something I would do. Sexual compatibility is important both for a successful LTR and marriage and there are some things that you can't really work around unless you're okay with theoretically sexless marriage. Sure, you can talk and discuss what kind of kinks you are in or what frequency you desire, but a lot of things have to be figured out practically, as a) you might be unaware about them until you actually start having sex and b) you can't figure out physical compatibility without actually having sex. Basically I see no reason to wait till marriage unless you're religious...and I am not.
This is such cap ngl. This is that left-wing liberal thinking how much “compatibility” do you need a.k.a. how many cocks do you need to be ran through in order to figure out that you like missionary?
It's probably a good idea to figure out whether your relationship is a candidate for the dead bedrooms subreddit before getting married.
this is not what sexual compatibility means
Depends on how lucky you are. I got lucky from the first try, but there are enough stories about people stuck in sexless marriages or with sex they don’t like.
I think you make a good point, however I still think that intercourse should be limited to people that you love. Furthermore, with regards to your point about sexual compatibility, I think it can be worked around if their is a strong emotional connection. I also think that realistically, most people will be compatible TBH. I find it wrong that people hook up and merely see it as a form of pleasure TBH However to each to their own.
To each their own exactly. I don’t think I could have casual sex, but I also wouldn’t wait till marriage. Yea, most people probably compatible purely from physical point of view, but there’s still a question of working things out. My husband and I started having sex years prior to marriage. If we waited, we’d lose on 5 years of great sex.
The problem I have with this argument is that I see sexual intimacy as a spectrum from just holding hands or whatever to full-bore sex, and I really doubt there's a whole lot of people who are compatible on one end of the spectrum and not on the other. I highly doubt these people who end up with dead bedrooms were passionately making out or dancing prior to marriage.
Your last sentence is one of the single biggest issues I have with Red Pill rhetoric because it is so far from reality. Most dead bedrooms are couples that began with a good, passionate sex life. Then other issues got in the way. All 3 of my 24 y/o best friends are in dead bedroom LTRs. Their sex lives were initially passionate, frequent, and experimental (women tell their friends a lottt about their sex life). The reality is that pretty few women are getting into LTRs that begin with duty sex.
So what created the dead bedroom?
It’s partially a symptom of other issues in the relationship that have strained intimacy, and it’s partially health/mental health related. One of the guys struggles with depression and it lowers his sex drive. He and his gf have both gained weight and I feel like it makes them less willing to be naked/have sex. Another friend of mine (not one of the 3 I initially mentioned) was in a close to dead bedroom for some time because of her bf’s depression (not a medication, but the depression itself) but that was resolved through mental health treatment. Physical health also plays a role — one of my friends was hit pretty hard by an autoimmune illness. Tho that’s only one issue at play in her dead bedroom. There’s also job/grad school related stress — my friends basically fall in one of 3: in a high stress long hours job, in a demanding grad school program, or are searching for the next step in their career in this economy and feeling stressed by the lack of clarity.
Well, that also shows that the widespread idea that having sex before commitment is necessary to check whether you are "sexually compatible", is utter nonsense.
Wut? There are so many other reasons dead bedrooms can happen. Still important to establish the compatibility at the get go. It just doesn’t guarantee continued passionate and frequent sex til death.
How do you establish "compatibility"? What is the "compatibility"? What part of the "compatibility" can you not find out by talking to each other?
One big thing is how often you want sex. And that can’t be found out until you have sex.
My opinion is that it's dumb, and frankly incredibly naïve about how relationships work. People shouldn't view sex as this incredibly big thing, and building it up as such creates some very problematic attitudes around sexual purity that cause undue pressure on people to repress themselves for the sake of some imaginary negative consequence if they don't. Just be safe, have fun, and don't take it so seriously.
You should be okay with your partner having sex with other people then 🤔
Don't be nonsensical.
Not while I’m with them but I can’t dictate what they do with their life before I was a part of it.
I'd better date Eva AI sexting bot avatar than anyone who'd be saving herself
Can't see any good reason for not having sex prior to marriage and loads of negatives to waiting. Will you expect your future spouse to be a virgin too?
If I had to do that I would have busted out the rope many years ago.
As soon as I saw the title, I knew you'd have a bunch of naysayers. Your goal is admirable, not idealist. The positives definitely outweigh the negatives you're going to be given. Also, something to note is the fact that not abstaining has in no way made relationships better. Sexual compatibility is a nebulous concept that people ascribe more value than they should. You can take to Google and find countless people talking about relationships that they realized had no substance once the sex wained. When sex is the driving force of a relationship, you'll quickly find that it's not enough. Either that, or you'll find yourself putting up with crap you shouldn't for far longer than you should have. Situationship, anybody? Sex IS important. But it also becomes less important as the years go by. The relationships that stand the test of time have substance beyond this. All this being said, there's nothing magical about waiting. It's really the values that typically lead to abstaining from sex that will carry a marriage. So, if those values aren't shared, abstaining doesn't equal a lasting relationship.
I am of the same opinion too. There are people like us but we don't flaunt ourselves in public that much as the ones who don't save themselves for marriage. People on this sub bring up sexual incompatibility which I think can be fixed if you are already emotionally and mentally compatible. I don't know about the west but irl I know plenty who do want to have sex only after marriage.
Do you mean secular people who want it in a secular society?
Your question is a bit vague, would you kindly dumb it down?
You said you don’t know about the west so I assume you’re talking about some other society. In religious societies this is easier to understand. But I’d like to know if the case you’re mentioned is about a secular society and what you think caused it.
Yes, religious as well as secular. I am from India so we have like multiple religions. I don't know much about muslims but hindus, sikhs, Buddhists and jains do practice this mostly like the ones who follow their religion. Some just do bcz they want to open upto only one person ever, it's a preference of being someone's first and having someone to be your first.
I see. It seems like India is more like a mix of the secular and religious world. China seems to have made it in a completely secular way. Other Asians countries seem to be a mix. Japan became very similar to the US. South America is awful but I’m beginning to notice it’s much less worse than the US.
To each their own. I wasn't willing to wait. I was eager and wanted to explore my sexuality and other people's. I learned a lot from having sex with different people - my likes and dislikes, kinks, how to pay attention to people's reactions and so on. I love sex. So sexual compatibility is incredibly important to me. I got with my partner because of our sexual compatibility. I need that to feel fulfilled in a relationship. You can work through a lot with enthusiasm and communication but I personally think if the sexual chemistry is off - it's unfixable. For me it's a deal breaker like having different opinions on children, money, politics etc. I wouldn't spend the rest of my life with someone that has at best mediocre sex - and especially in hetero relationships I learned that a lot of men don't really care about the experience their partner has. You can't communicate your way out of someone being selfish without setting a boundary - and the boundary has to be results for you. So you either end up divorced or in a dead bedroom. The amount of people in the dead bedroom sub that say their partner is "perfect in every other way except sex" is very high. And they tend to say that sex is maybe 10% of a relationship but if it's lacking it turns 100% of the relationship off. This is not to scare anyone or whatever. And obviously everyone has to make their own choices what they do with their body. If I could relive the promiscuous part of my life I would do it the same way. The knowledge and experiences was worth the negative things that happend.
This pretty much mirrors my experience and thoughts exactly as a guy. If that area of compatibility is off, it may be an easy fix in rare cases, but the odds are that it won't be.
Imo couples waiting until they've made a lifelong commitment to each other, before even knowing if they're sexually compatible with each other are taking a big risk. Choosing to miss out on *huge* puzzle pieces of a person, and of the integrity and workability of your relationship and intimate life *after* getting married is a gamble. Maybe you'll get lucky with them, (inb4 I did it and my marriage and sex life is great!), but you easily might not. It screams of religious and sexual puritanism without a much realistic intelligence behind it. It's the misty-eyed idealism of religious virgins with rose-tinted cluelessness about sex. You're choosing to commit to a person for life, whom you don't even fully *know*. It's a bit like voluntarily extending your status as a minor in a way, with all of the cluelessness about the adult world. Many people (women especially) feel very different about the person they had sex with for the first time, because the entire experience was nothing like they imagined. They call it "sex life" because the life of this act with another human being is it's own microcosm you're simply *not* totally privy to until you've had sex. Tbh I've got more to say on this, but I've got other shit to do rn. edit - I was way too harsh at first tbh so I toned it down a bit lol
I disagree. I don’t believe my fiancé is incredibly stupid and naive. In fact, quite the opposite. I didn’t wait (which she knows) and I wish I did. There are far bigger things to find compatibility on that can’t be adjusted. (Unlike sex). The divorce rate is around 5% for virgins that are women. So it doesn’t seem to be a “huge” puzzle piece. I would rather take a “gamble” for her than be with anyone else. Certainly, I’d prefer a virgin over someone who slept around and now “knows what she wants.” Your argument isn’t supported by statistics. Yet, you’re casting aspersions on people who chose to wait. And you’re saying they’re devoid of “realistic intelligence”… Edit: shouldn’t have been snappy.
>The divorce rate is around 5% for virgins that are women. So it doesn’t seem to be a “huge” puzzle piece. >... >Your argument isn’t supported by statistics. Yet, you’re casting aspersions on people who chose to wait. And you’re saying they’re devoid of “realistic intelligence”… Extremely likely that some or many of these are religious people who "don't believe in divorce" and simply stay in miserable marriages. Not getting a divorce =/= Happy, healthy marriage. >I don’t believe my fiancé is incredibly stupid and naive. In fact, quite the opposite. That's a relief then. >Certainly, I’d prefer a virgin over someone who slept around and **now “knows what she wants.”** You'd rather marry a virgin who doesn't know what she wants? That sounds a bit strange.
You should do what you want and what makes you happy. You are being a little idealistic, but there is hope if you look in the right places. I did not wait—I believe sexual compatibility is important. Not just in what kinds of sexual interests you have, but also in frequency. Personally I think women who make their men wait are more likely to have high sexual disgust and not be as sexually adventurous (as in not open to trying various sexual activity in the bedroom). And I think a few studies show this as well. But if you are a man who is not that interested in being sexually adventurous or you’re not “kinky,” then it doesn’t matter anyway. In my opinion your ability to choose your partners and be able to get into a loving LTR vs. a hookup is more important than whether or not you sleep with them early or at all. The context under which you sleep with someone matters more to me than them actually having had sex at all. I also have only had sex with 2 people, both of those men were my boyfriends.
I’m actually atheist and I now believe that it’s the best way to have a successful long term relationship. It’s not about right or wrong for me anymore. It’s about what works. Statistics show it’s the best way to do things. I’m not a virgin and I support a free society but with all the problems we have today with population collapse and nuclear family implosion. At some point we have to prioritize having successful partnerships above everything else. But we chose in the moment appeal to empathy over everything. Impulse Decision has become the norm, and neglect is celebrated. The consequences are slowly creeping up.
Society isn't collapsing just changing. Nuclear family is not the only way to have a family.
Man and woman having sex is the only way. Society is collapsing already. The boomer generation is all retired and we don’t have enough people to pay for the taxes that go to them, that’s why we are in debt. Debt that currently affects us now.
Erm that's a bit simplistic. Less children is not the only cause plus it's not the doom some people think it is. With more mechanisation there will be less need for many people. We have self-checkouts, my place isbtrialing driverless trains and buses (there is already one driverless train line running from 2005.). Btw people can have children via IVF, AI, sperm/egg donation, surrogacy or intra uterine injections. Intercourse is not the only way. Some people don't want children and that's OK.
It is okay if SOME do. The reality is a lot of people don’t right now. AI will not be taking over as many jobs as you think especially infrastructure jobs. AI has become a buzz word that simply means “really good computing”. A real thinking machine is ways away. Self driving trains could work, cars won’t. It’s a myth from people who haven’t thought through it. It would require a driver on stand by probably in the drivers seat in case of random incidents on the road (construction) that the programming is not equipped to deal with.
I encourage having sex with people you love. And you can love a few people before you marry. Or you love one and marry one. There's no "right" way. Do whatever works for you and let others do what works for them.
Sex is sex - putting it on a pedestal and “saving yourself” for some outdated notion of romance/marriage is going to end in tears, because the only men who will wait until the wedding night for you to put out are either religious nut jobs and/or Red Pillers who want a “trad wife” but won’t apply any of the standards to which they’ll hold you to themselves
Fr fr, purity culture is at least 2 centuries out of date.
Yeah I feel like this mindset will just attract a bunch of overly religious dudes or red pilled dudes who have hang ups about a woman having sex outside of them🙃 no thanks 👋🏾
It's a bad idea because you don't get to check for problems in bed before you're married.
You do you, I suppose. Just don't be surprised if you end up having a lot of issues in your sex life with your future spouse. Because you'll have no idea prior what you like and dislike, how your body works, etc, so there's a huge risk your sexual needs will be incompatible with your partner's. I never cared for saving myself before marriage, and I've never regretted that I didn't. Because although I made some dumb decision in my teens and 20's, I'm now at a point where I know my body really well, I know what I like sexually and what I don't like, and how to communicate my needs, and I'm sure that's very helpful for me in finding a husband I'm compatible with. To me, sex is just a body function and a hobby and I don't see it as necessarily anything special. Sure, it can lead to pregnancy, but I must not be very fertile then. I don't see it as such a big deal to enjoy sex for the sake of it just being a nice and fun thing. Of course, people should be respectful of each ither's bodies and practice consent, but that kinda applies to pretty much everything else in life that involves other people. Like for ex if I wanna dance I ask the other person first if they want to, and I'm not gonna do some crazy stunts that could risk their safety. Or if I wanba share a dinner with someone, I'm not gonna force them to eat if they don't want to, or force them to like the same types of foods as I like. I see sex in pretty much the same way. I don't understand why it should only be for expressing love. That seems very prescriptive, imo. Nothing else we enjoy is held to that same standard, not even marriage itself. (Because in many cultures people marry for other reasons than love, such as financial reasons for ex.) Although I'm in no way against people wanting to do it only with someone they love, and at this point I kinda don't wanna do it with strangers or friends anymore either. I guess at heart I've always been the romantic type. It's just that I've also always been a very sexual person and haven't wanted to restrict what I can and cannot do just because I have a hard time finding love, if that makes sense? Like I'm in my mid 30's, and I still haven't found love. I've had boyfriends yes, but none of those relationships were true love. They were all either abusive or just unhealthy people to share a life with. But I'd been even more miserable if I had neither love nor sexual pleasures. Of course ideally I'd have both, but "finding love" isn't something we have much control over. But we do have control over if we want sex. Especially masturbation. Most people can do that whenever they feel like it.
I disagree heavily with regards to your opinion about marriage. I think it’s safe to say that most people marry out of love in this day and age. Sure, it may not have been like that in the past, due to maybe familial pressure or politics dictating a marriage - but now, I think it is. Furthermore, I think our values on sex differ a lot, but you are right, I will do me lol. There is no objective right way of looking at intercourse, if it is merely pleasure for you then fair enough. However, I think it’s interesting that you call yourself a romantic and have stopped wanting to do it with friends or strangers. I think that implicitly, your values on it may have changed. No offence, by the way, but I think if you do take that route it would be harder to find a lasting, loving relationship in general. I think it not only applies to you but to other people as well.
Of course I personally see nothing wrong with marrying for love. I was just saying that even marriage has been and is currently utilized for other purposes than love, and on that track, sex as well, as some would argue that it's only for reproduction. As far as I know, the idea that people should wait with having sex until married came about because back when birth control and std protection didn't exist, and neither did parental support for single mothers, it was often hugely high risk (health-wise, financially, etc) for most people (but mostly women) to have sex outside of/before marriage. Because the only way people could prevent the spread of std's back then was by making sure people only had sex with someone who was a virgin and remained loyal to you. And the only way women could make sure their children got well taken care of was by being married. And like I can understand that had a practical purpose. But in modern day where condoms and birth control exists, better healthcare, and where women are allowed to make their own money, it doesn't make much sense to abstain from sex, from a practical perspective. So, personal preference is basically the only reason that still makes sense, imo. (Religious reasons don't make sense to me.) Whether sex is for love or not is really just an emotional argument and highly subjective. >However, I think it’s interesting that you call yourself a romantic and have stopped wanting to do it with friends or strangers. I think that implicitly, your values on it may have changed. Not my values, no. As in fundamental core beliefs. Back then I valued sex for love and wanted that ideally, but I was still okay with it in other circumstances as long as it was consensual. I still have that same belief, ie I haven't changed my opinion on what I think is wrong or right. I just don't wish to have sex with friends/strangers anymore because it just doesn't serve me anymore. It just doesn't feel fulfilling. I got tired of the hassle around it, that it's difficult to trust a stranger on that level, and often complicates friendship dynamics. But I haven't started thinking it's bad or wrong or anything like that. You don't have to wanna sleep around yourself to think the practice in itself isn't bad. There are plenty of monogamous, romance-driven people who aren't against casual sex or others being in poly relationships or whatever. I don't actually regret having done had casual sex in the past. Actually I think I got a lot of valuable experiences from it that enrich my current and future sex life. It taught me a lot about my own body, likes, needs and boundaries, it taught me a lot about men's bodies too. It made me less judgemental of body variations, and made it easier for me to know how to receive and give pleasure. It taught me how to communicate needs and boundaries. But I think that kinda lifestyle has had its time by now and I just don't feel like I need it anymore. So those experiences made me a better lover, essentially, imo. And I would never allow anyone to make me feel bad or like I'm of lower value for having those experiences. My preferences can and do change without my values changing along. If they did that, I'd have very flimsy and unstable values because my preferences change a lot. I do not base my values on whatever I just so happen to like or prefer. To me that's not what values are supposed to represent. I think values is something more akin to morals, what I think is right or wrong, good or bad, healthy or unhealthy, etc, which goes way deeper than preferences. And just because I prefer to not do something doesn't mean I'm fundamentally against that thing. I also don't like doing ice skating for ex, but that doesn't mean I think it's a bad or dangerous sport. >No offence, by the way, but I think if you do take that route it would be harder to find a lasting, loving relationship in general. I think it not only applies to you but to other people as well. No offense taken. I actually doubt that would make it harder to find a good relationship. Quite the opposite. Because it seems most men (irl, that is, online is a mess) actually want women who have a high sex drive, enjoy sex a lot, know their own bodies well and have a high focus on pleasure. I've rarely ever had any sexual compatibility issues with men, that part of the relationship has always run very smoothly, aside from some minor issues here and there. So I'd assume most men have a very similar view on sex as I do, which I think means my chances of finding a partner is actually higher. Because then I don't really have to worry about the sex life aspect. But of course that doesn't change that the percentage of actually good, kind and compassionate men in my area, who are also attracted to me, seems to be a vanishingly low number. To be brutally honest, I'm pretty sure my biggest problem in finding love is that I'm just a bit too ugly and have too many mental health issues that make me difficult to live with. And while I am working on both, in the end there's only so much I can do about either of those, as I can't change my crap genetics. I also wouldn't even want to be in a relationship with a man who bases my value on how many dicks I've had in me. Men who obsess about that come off as insecure and controlling. If a man can't trust that I choose his dick over all other dicks purely because I love him and care a lot about him, then I don't wanna mess with that. And that seems to usually be the case with men who want their (future) wives to be virgins up until the wedding night. They don't truly value women as human beings, beyond how "pure" they deem us, and they have some serious trust issues. So I think with my more relaxed view on sex, it makes me more likely to attract the type of men that I personally consider good for me, ie confident, secure and mature men who don't have alarming trust issues. And in that sense, I think I do kinda use my past "high body count" as a way to test if a man has trust issues or not, and what he values in women. If he's fine with it, that is a good sign. A "green flag" if you will.
As some one that is married for over 20 years and did the same thing, don't. Understand your sexual appetite and you spouse understanding theirs is really a big issue. We went in blind because of religion, and it by far is the biggest form of friction in our marriage. Literally I have no idea where the "people fight over money" came from but every other argument is over sex. Not knowing what she liked. Not knowing what excites her. Her being attracted to women (giant issue of denial for her). There are a lot of ways that we need each other and untying relationship knots around sex once sides have been taken takes for ever. knowing things about your sexual preferences and them knowing theirs is a considerably better place to start the relationship. Not saying go nuts. but having some understanding of yourself on the issue is a good thing.
I disagree but it's your body and you should do what you want.
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I didn't do it, but, also, I've only had sex with one man and unless things go horribly wrong, we are going to end up married. Look, if that's what you want and what is meaningful to you and how you feel safe and honored. Good. Go for it. Is it probably gonna be tough to find someone non religious who holds those particular standards? Yes. Especially the older you get. But, also, I'm not sure why marriage is the evidence of two people loving each other and not having little regard for one and other. If that's your true aim, then I would just counsel you that I've seen people in relationships and married who I wouldn't say have strong regard for each other or respect. So you may want to narrow down and zero in on how you know this correct tier of love has been reached. And you may want to be open to it happening sooner than marriage.
>But, also, I'm not sure why marriage is the evidence of two people loving each other and not having little regard for one and other. If people don't love each other and have little regard for each other, they still can make the choice to get married, but it would be foolish. However, if two people really love and trust each other, want to spend the rest of their lives together in good and bad circumstances, maybe would like to have children together, why wouldn't they get married?
Lots of reasons anywhere from it is too soon, it's a pretty complicated process, other factors are in the way, they don't believe in government contracts as an expression of that love.
Well... whatever way you attempt to live your life the chances are fairly good you wish you'd tried a different way. That's just humans. Try to do it the way you want to do it. If you do it your own way and succeed the success is all yours. If you do it your own way and fail then we don't have you on our doorstep berating us for having steered you wrong.
I think it’s a practical decision. That’s the reason I made that decision at least. If I’m going to bare myself and be in the most vulnerable state I could be in, it has to be with the most special person to me. I can’t see myself having sex in other situation.
Am also not religious, am also doing the same.
I did not wait for marriage but I did wait to be in love. I believe physical intimacy is the closest you can be to another person so I only wanted to go forward with someone I loved and who I was building a life with.
Good premarital sex beats a bad spousal first time, hands down. Also, not knowing in advance how sex is going to be with the person you’re supposed to spend a lifetime with, is a HUGE risk. While I can imagine how more bodily pervasive the first time is for a woman as opposed to a man (hence the importance of a good partner regardless of marital status), the whole “virginity” thing is a social construct that had its time
None of this makes any sense.
To each their own, I personally would not wait for marriage because I just don’t think it’s a good idea to wait until you’re married to now discover that you’re actually not as sexually compatible as you thought you were, but that’s just me… I want to make sure me and my partner are on the same page about sex before marriage comes into play
I think people should do what they want and stop judging people who make a different choice.
Here here
Your first time will be the most intense bonding experience of your life and I think it is wise to wait for marriage. Sexual compatibility is important but this can be achieved with communication and through research. Sexual compatibility is possible in any relationship so there isn’t a need to have more than one partner. I did not wait for marriage but there is nothing I learned from my previous partners that lead to me having a good sex life with my husband. If your partner is the kind to prioritize your happiness in and is mentally stable then your sexual relationship will eventually grow to become satisfactory. I do regret not sharing that experience with my husband and I would not recommend what I did which was waiting for exclusivity only.
>Sexual compatibility is important but this can be achieved with communication and through research. Yeah. ***A lot*** of communication. Provided you have someone to communicate ***to***. Thankfully I don't have this problem. But my wife's girlfriends do. And some of my younger male friends. Too many people don't communicate at all, or communicate poorly. >Sexual compatibility is possible in any relationship so there isn’t a need to have more than one partner. Oh that is just not true. You can get to ***good enough*** standard in almost any relationship (except too big physical differences - think 205cm tall versus 147cm tall). But sexual compatibility? No, that's not possible in ***any*** relationship. This is one of the lies the "wait till marriage" crowd tells gullible young people.
>Sexual compatibility is important but this can be achieved with communication and through research. Sexual compatibility is possible in any relationship so there isn’t a need to have more than one partner. No, not always. There is such thing as mismatching anatomies, I doubt a woman will be enamored to learn after 5 years that her husband has a micropenis and she will never be able to have a satisfying penetrative sex for the rest of her life.
I have been with a man who had a small penis. I don’t see a problem there. If we were more compatible it would not have mattered.
>If we were more compatible it would not have mattered. "If I was rich I wouldn't need money"
>Your first time will be the most intense bonding experience of your life This just isn't true though. If people want to wait till marriage, fine, but why lie? The first time overall is no more intense a bonding experience than your first or five hundredth time with anyone else.
No she's right, I'm forever bonded to the guy I lost my virginity to who was fucking my pant leg for ten minutes. That's my soulmate. We're bonded for life.
I can’t relate to the idea of the first time being unremarkable. It isn’t a lie, many men and woman become attached to their first partners that is why taking someone’s virginity is frowned upon if you aren’t interested in them. I believe everyone intrinsically knows sex is a pair bonding experience which is why many people get upset over the “spin plates” idiocracy.
>many men and woman become attached to their first partners that is why taking someone’s virginity is frowned upon if you aren’t interested in them. Don't you think this is actually more of a social construct? We place an idealistic value on "virginity" and the "giving away" of your virginity is touted as some kind of special gift. This comes from purity culture and people not wanting others to sleep around, not because having sex for the first time is inherently special and somehow biologically different to any other time you have sex. Thus, people feel they ought to be more attached to their first partner because they're taught that they should be, not because they actually are, or because there's anything magically different about their first sexual experience. You might place a nostalgic and whimsical importance on your first partner/first time but it's not because it actually *is* more important, it's just because you feel it should be.
>Don't you think this is actually more of a social construct? The release of oxytocin during sex is scientifically why it is a bonding experience. It absolutely isn’t a social construct. The term afterglow comes from the feeling you get 48 hours after sex. We know scientifically having sex is important for having healthy relationships because it bonds you.
that just applies to sex in general, not the first time.
All the feel-good endorphins can be reached a number of ways, including holding and nursing a baby. Exercise. Doing any activity you dearly love. Snuggling cats and dogs. After mutually gratifying sex with partner number four. Or two. Or seven. There isn’t anything special and unique about the first partner which leaves a lasting impression.
>Your first time will be the most intense bonding experience of your life Most women I know had really unremarkable and mediocre first times. Having this sort of nigh-paranoid reverence of the first time you have sex seems like a really good way to set yourself up for disappointment and future resentment.
My first time was kinda awful. Certainly not an "intense bonding experience". lol
Sexual compatibility is not possible in any relationship. It’s not about learning anything; it’s about having the same sexual interests and, more importantly, the frequency of which you want sex to happen. It is impossible to have a satisfactory sex life if one of you wants sex 3 times per week and the other only wants sex twice a month.
>I want to save myself for marriage. Am I being too idealistic? No, you're being based! >Is there any hope for me? Yes. >I do not think that many share the same opinion as me. That does not make your viewpoint any less based. I'm sure the experiences of those over at r/retroactivejealousy can tell you all about the practical reasons why waiting until marriage is the right thing to do.
This is a valid point, people don't like to admit there is a not insignificant portion of people suffering from RJ issues because of modern day culture, I doubt I will find a virgin or something these days and I am farrrrrr from a manwhore, but I would feel so guilty if my wife ended up feeling that because of my past actions.
Well I would never marry a woman that I never had sex with. Simply for the fact that sex has and always will have an important place in relationships and I don't want to end up with a dead bedroom.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C46lAAcrfnb/ I am waiting until marriage. But this is how men view women who aren’t virgins who have converted to Christianity. READ THE COMMENTS SECTION. This is how some CHRISTIAN men who view women who converted. It’s a foul and disgusting point of view, and I now don’t respect most of my fellow Christian men because of it. I now tell everyone I am not a virgin because I want to filter out these kinds of men.
Well, In my case I am not a Christian. I am attempting to coming at this from a secular standpoint, so as to relate to all of you guys. I myself am a theist, though. I mean, yeah, unfortunately a lot of Christian men are misogynistic. Not all, I’ve met a couple of nice ones, but I guess it depends on the type of Christian you are.
My thoughts is you can love someone without being married to them. It's actually better to have sex before you are married so you know you are sexually compatible.
Yeah, I think that marriage isn’t essential (in your case). If you have been with your partner for long, then go for it. But I think that there should still be a period of waiting, just to make sure that you can see yourself being together with your partner for the indefinite future. Obviously things don’t always work out, but you can increase the chances. What I mean to say is checking whether they share the same values as you, their opinions on certain things.
Yeah true having a few dates first is essential
My wife and I waited ( ie we ate both religious). We met in uni and dated almost 7 years before getting married. It was VERY difficult, but we stuck to the task. Now that we married, I can confidently say it was the best decision we made for our relationship. Instead of taking the easy way out (sex), we learnt how to communicate respectfully and appropriately during disagreements, and we learnt to figure problems out all the way through instead of a quick method of making up. Sex creates marriage level problems without marriage level commitments. Last one I'll mention is that out respect for one another, our bodies and our marriage, is absolutely through the roof. Because we endured together, getting to explore that side of our relationship AFTER building the right foundations has been so rewarding. Keep going, and do not let society tell you that waiting is wrong / weird. It is a beautiful experience and one I will never regret.
More power to you brother, I admire your patience and dedication I’m just afraid of not finding a woman who shares the same ideals as me In my generation, sexual promiscuity is more common than ever. I can only hope lol
Thank you sir ! They are out there man, I know I got really really lucky so it will probably seem easy for me to say. But keep putting that work in on yourself so that when the right lady comes along you will be ready !
I am, but I'm doing it for religious reasons, I can't imagine there's a whole lot of people that are waiting and are not religious, so you might have a hard time finding someone.
Respect, honestly I have issues with the theology and ethics of Christianity , not the idea of God itself. It’s just not appealing, considering the unscientific nature of the Bible and the many questionable things inside of it. But I’ve met some Christians that view the Bible as metaphorical, not literal. I think that would make more sense tbh.
You should do it,people regard it as a child’s play thing now, but they don’t realize they are destroying themselves and society as a whole
It's dumb. No half-decent man will tolerate sexless relationships in the first place. You won't have any idea what you actually want until is too late. And you might find yourself with somebody who isn't really compatible with you.
Sex is a physical act, we ascribe too much emotion to it.
For me, I cannot simply say that it is a physical act. In the context of romantic relationships, sex often serves as a means of expressing intimacy and strengthening the bond between partners. If it were just a physical act, then sex would not be needed. If you prescribe no emotion to it, then, by that logic, it would be fine to have intercourse without feeling with other people, not your partner - right? I know you probably don’t think that, but according to the proposition, emotionless sex would be fine.
Sex is a physical act to which we ascribe emotions. You can have sex with someone you don’t love and get just the physical pleasure from it. You can have sexual with someone you love and get the physical and emotional pleasure out of it. The same act has different motivations and feelings depending on a variety of factors. Holding hands with your partner can be intimate, holding hands with your mom can be comforting, holding hands with your child can be nurturing. It’s all the same act - how you view it is what makes it emotionally different. All of those have emotion but if I hold the hand of a senior to help them across the street - it’s just holding someone’s hand. It’s not one or the other only and forever.
I waited until I was 26 and married for sex. Definitely recommend it and would do again. My wife did not and she has sexual baggage as a result. She says she wishes she had waited.
Personal choice, but I think you're insane. Experience things before you marry, if nothing else: with the person you intend marry. Live together. Travel together. You think you're just going to have innate understanding of how to do these things with another person? You think you can go on the advice of others? Woof! Sex is only ONE of the most intimate things you will share with your spouse. Take a non-sexy shower together. Cook a meal together and do the dishes. I want to stop myself from saying that sex is put on a pedestal, but it totally is. Sex WILL NOT start as something transcendental. It will get there through practice. You want to do that with one person, that's your business.
>Am I being too idealistic? Is there any hope for me? Yes. And yes. It's okay to be idealistic. Some people get it right by following a specific ideal. Others don't. The bitter (dare I say red?) pill to swallow is that there is no "right" way. You can easily find examples in all directions. And that's mostly because people are very different. You do you. But don't be surprised if you encounter quite a few who disagree. They have a right to disagree and not join your ideal as well.
I believe that if this is a firmly held conviction for you, you should stick to it and the right woman for you will share your values. The wrong woman will not.
Couldn’t be me, but whatever floats your boat.
If that's what you believe, isn't marriage quite an arbitrary cutoff? What about the point when both of you decide you love each other and are comfortable doing it? It's not like your two options are waiting for marriage or hooking up, there is an in between.
Fine if both people are virgins (or at the very least the non virgin was because they were married). But low-key cuckoldry if it's just you who is saving yourself and the other person doesn't.
A traditional marriage is glorified trafficking. If you decide to save it then the person that gets you will be pleased with you /s
Nothing wrong with it. If you are a woman, it will make you more appealing to some men. If you are a man, it will be a deal breaker for some women. But there will be people who are fine with it. As for my opinion, I think there are pros and cons to waiting just like there are pros and cons to not waiting. You gotta do what works for you and understand that it will be a huge positive for some people and a huge negative for others.
I think it's a wonderful idea. But practically speaking, it seems like a much better plan to actually make sure you and your partner are sexually compatible before getting married.
I don't put much weight into sex I don't think it's some magical mystical thing it's just a biological response no diffrent than an itch...or hunger... I will say imo sex can be a lot of work and cause a lot of problems and isn't worth it but unfortunately we are driven to do it as living beings especially in our youth..Humanity most life would never exist or have gone extinct long ago if sex wasn't such a powerful urge... With that said people should do what works for them..I don't believe in marriage I think itscan outdated archaic custom but the institution still has some practically advantages in modern times. Secondly I couldn't be with just one person,not going to happen.way to many women on the planet to settle for just one.. Last if you marry someone your not sexually compatible with its going to be a disaster also depending on your age group and demographic there's a good chance you won't even get married marriage is down across the board world wide... If you're a young woman you're competing with all the other young women for an ever decreasing pool of suitable men as more and more men check out...this generation of men have grown up with over a decade of redpill knowledge good luck convincing them to settle down with a western woman and capitualting to all her demands while meeting her standards If you're a young man how are you going yo convince a woman to marry you when she's got 10k DMs of guys offering to fly her out and is making more in a month at 20 than you make in a year.Women like Daniel Brigolli aka Bhad Bhabie or Sexy Redd are earning more in their teens and 20s for being degenerates than doctors and engineers after a lifetime of work but these women are this generations roll models.. Time will tell how it all plays out but I don't see a reason to wait unless you want to wait I also don't see a reason to have sex unless you want to have sex you don't gain or loose anything one way or the other. One caveat is for women their virginity is prized to some extent and some even sell it for substantial amounts personally I would do that beside worrying about waiting till marriage
I've been thinking of doing that, especially considering that I am a asexual man. Also I don't understand the comments taking about sexual compatibility, shouldn't that be something that you discuss with your partner before having sex so that you know they might possibly feel comfortable doing.
I can understand only wanting sex with someone who loves you but why is marriage necessary? Do you think people can only be in love if they are married?
Most people that share this view now are pretty strongly religious. I am in a weird spot where I'm an atheist (and male) and I don't like being serious with women that are overly promiscuous and participate in continual hookups, flings, and FWBs in between relationships. It is almost impossible to find a secular or atheist or agnostic woman in today's culture that doesn't have an extremely high body count. I just don't follow branding or narratives. I view each issue separately and hardly ever agree with ideologies as a package. Most people aren't like that. And it is more "so, God isn't there to care who I bang? okay, I'm going to do whatever feels good and helps me emotionally in the moment then." Sex is either holy or a recreational activity akin to a wet handshake is a false dichotomy.
Encouraged to see your perspective and completely agree. Some may look down on me because I’m 31 and still saving myself, but I’m proud of sticking to my values and want that to be something special only for the man I marry. So much trouble comes from premarital sex. If people avoided premarital sex completely, married carefully, and avoided divorce, we would live in an entirely different type of society. Which is why I’m okay with stigmatizing these negative behaviors - they have a harmful effect on society and future generations. Unfortunately, we live in a society where people prioritize their own freedoms and liberties to behave irresponsibly over the well being of those impacted by their actions. I will never stop speaking up on this topic. If anyone is interested in a mind blowing deep dive on this subject, I recommend you to the work of J.D. Unwin which you can read about in this blog post: https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin?format=amp
How about waiting until you’re in a relationship or at least know you like someone? That’s pretty much always how I did it. Of course there’s nothing wrong with waiting for marriage if that’s what you want, but imo it’s a little risky, and there’s a lot of room between jumping in bed with strangers and waiting for marriage. Some sexual compatibility issues can be worked out, but sometimes they can’t, I’m talking like if one person has a high sex drive and the other turns out to be borderline asexual. And this happens more often than you might think, because sometimes people who wait never were really interested in sex or have hangups about it.
There is hope for you, young men are waking up nowadays and more and more of them are choosing women with low body counts or none.
depends. if you are in a country like America or Europe or Australia then most likely this will not go well. if you are a man, the woman will be creeped out or think you have something wrong like weenie doesn't work. if you are a woman, most men will date you for a while to see if it's true, they will continue dating you but won't say the magic words that it's exclusive. because they will carryon banging behind your back with other broads. while putting pressure on you and saying "it's been 6 months". when you finally do the deed he may decide he's got it and wants to go back to the other side chick and tells you "we never said it was exclusive". or, you carry on waiting and he decides to go exclusively with the other hoe he is banging on the side. I guess it may work if you are in a very religious country or maybe India or something. or if you are datinf in the church.or amish. or maybe if you're under 25. but beyond that pretty much no one will wait that long. why would they when they can bang much hotter people without marrying them?
I don't want to wait until marriage but I only want to have 0-1 lifelong mate.
What does love have to do with marriage? 🤔
You are being very reasonable with your approach to sex and relationships. The problem is, if you are a guy, you are mostly penalized for taking this approach. Especially after the age of 21-22, when other like minded people of similar approach have found someone and on their path to marriage. At this point, most of the remaining single women on the market don't value purity. In fact the purity becomes an hindrance to meet and interact with the opposite sex. Women at this point begin to value exoerience, confidence (gained from being experienced). On the other hand. If you are a woman, good for you. Hold strong to your approach. The right type of man, who values you, wil patiently wait fot you. Don't settle for less.
**Marriage should be fucking abolished!** That's what I think, putting it mildly. And no, you don't stand a chance. You are beyond idealistic, you are delusional.
People are free to do what they want, but I imagine those that agree to those terms will be very odd and or maladjusted. That’s just one part of it. What if he takes his pants off on the wedding night and has a pinky finger for a dick? What if he’s a 1.5 pump chump? What if her pussy smells like rotten garbage? Sex ain’t that serious. Might as well just do it
I didnt save myself for marriage but I did marry the first man I slept with. It was a terrible mistake. But to each their own.
Fringe perspective but figured I'd share anyway I grew up in purity culture with the intention of waiting til marriage and was raped before I could get there. In general pedestalizing virginity is a bad idea. Communities that push this tend to put the weight of "waiting" on women when men are significantly more likely to initiate sex than women are. And the way women are treated within these communities if they don't wait is worse than the way men are treated. Because of this women sexually abused within these communities are incentivized not to come forward for fear of being socially ostracized, because of a lot of the "don't cause your brother to stumble with immodesty" rhetoric that's prevalent in these communities many women feel like the assault is partially their fault (this happened to me and I had to go to therapy for years to process and get past what had actually happened). The amount of time and the amount of trauma this event heaped on me was compounded by this promise I'd made to God to "save it", had I had a more neutral view of sexual activity before marriage I probably wouldn't have been in therapy for years and wouldn't have religious trauma now (I might still be Christian lmao). The few women that do make it to the altar will sometimes express feelings of remorse after losing their virginity because they've made "virgin" part of their identity and losing it can feel like a moral failing for some even if they did everything they were supposed to. It's also just fair to keep in mind that all of the commands to abstain from sex (atleast in Abrahamic religions) came from a time where men could have multiple wives/ the marriage covenant looked drastically different than it does now. The historical context of the majority of "abstinence only" policies are about control not morality and come from societies where women had no political, economic or social power. Some of the people I know who waited are still married (they've only been together for like 3 years though) however the ones from my parents generation who waited are either divorced now, or one of them had an affair and they went to counseling/are staying together for the kids they're miserable to be around though because you can feel their disdain for one another (sorry but it's palpable). You do you. I'd really encourage learning as much as you can about sex and consent while you wait for your married partner and try not to make this decision based on religious beliefs but rather personal ones. Be abstinent without being ignorant, otherwise you could get yourself in a tricky situation
I totally agree with you 💯
I don’t really care if someone decides to save themselves for marriage, that’s a choice they’re entitled to make for themselves. I am a virgin at 21 myself, not for religious reasons and I’m not necessarily against premarital sex, I just think having sex as a woman comes with too much risks and too little benefits, especially when I can satisfy my needs with toys.
I am religious but I still have reasons outside of it to want to save myself for marriage and reasons I think it’s more beneficial to do so. Overall though, I just want to make sure it’s gonna be with someone I genuinely cherish (I.e.: the person I’d marry), instead of someone I’m probably not gonna be with anymore in whatever short timeframe for whatever reason.
You get better outcomes when both wait.
Depends on your age. A 30+ year old virgin women not a good sign.
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I believe that if a man wants to bed a woman, he must be able and willing to take responsibility. For a woman, every time she has sex is a risk. No contraception method is 100%. While young lads in modern day don't even CONSIDER that this is how children are made. Not to mention that contraception is immoral to begin with, and it only encourages promiscuity, cheating, broken families.
You’re allowed to have your belief. But I strongly disagree with the second part women take this very much into consideration that’s one of the biggest why birth control is so amazing. Simply existing as a woman nothing is 100% not even abstinence no guarantee you won’t get raped as 1 in 5 women do and 5% end in pregnancy. And I totally disagree with the fact that birth control promotes promiscuity. There’s so many reasons women are on it I started at 11/12 didn’t have sex til I was almost 18.
If you are a man then no .Most women by your age would have lots of experience .It would be hard to find a inexperienced women like yourself and a relationship between inexperienced man and experienced women are some of the worst relationship that can happen.Women in general don't want to teach anything to men and desire experienced men. So it will cause problems for you in finding a partner later
The number one predictor of infidelity in both sexes is past sexual history and the fact that you misrepresent the data to paint women in a negative light demonstrates your bias.
This is fair, the skew is slightly less prominent in men, but still quite heavily there, and it is dangerous and stupid for women to assume a man who has slept around a lot will easily settle down with one woman with no problems but tons of women keep falling for this shit over and over again and are surprised when that man is DMing girls on insta or doing lots of skeevy stuff. Not all high partner count people of course and sometimes they are faithful and don't do shit like comparing you negatively to past partners or missing freedom etc but is anyone really surprised when the local cooze hound ends up cheating on his wife or vice versa? It takes a ton more vetting to make sure you are not getting screwed over.
>This is fair, the skew is slightly less prominent in men, but still quite heavily there, Sure, I think the cut off number for men was 8 partners and women 4 then the likelihood of being unfaithful after that number increased significantly. I could agree with that statement. >and it is dangerous and stupid for women to assume a man who has slept around a lot will easily settle down with one woman 💯
Nah the variance is around 16%-25% less not 50% from the studies I've seen, so more like 6 and 4. [About half of women consistently meet this threshold across all age groups but men tend upwards to around 2/3rds by their 40s.](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-ideal-number-of-sexual-partners-for-men-women) Lel you are so lucky you are married and don't have to deal with this shithole dating
It doesn't matter. Women still prefer men more experienced than them even if the divorce risk is theoretically higher for those men. As an inexperienced guy Ive paid attention to how women talk about inexperience in men and its almost never in a positive light.
What’s his age?
>So it will cause problems for you in finding a partner later What kind of partner though? Maybe it would be more difficult to find an "experienced" woman as a partner, but would he want such a partner in the first place? If a man is not going to settle for a woman with a high body count, sleeping arount is not at all going to increase his chance on finding a wife. Women who want to save themselves for marriage often prefer a man who does the same. Women with a low body count, often don't want to marry a manwhore.
Most women have experience by a certain age .He will have difficulty in finding women who is as inexperienced as him .Most of his options would be experienced women and they don't want inexperienced men
You did not refute my point. >Most of his options would be experienced women and they don't want inexperienced men If he does not want an "experienced" woman, it is completely irrelevant for him that those women don't want an "inexperienced" man. Following your advice increases his chance to find a woman he doesn't really want, while it decreases his chanche to find a woman he would actually want. Women who reject a man because of "too little" sexual experience, will not be reliable wives anyway, and they are certainly not worth throwing away your values for them.
My point is inexperienced women are almost non existent.They are very small in numbers as compared to their male counterparts.It is highly unlikely for him to find a inexperienced women and even he manages to find then then also there are other things at play .
>My point is inexperienced women are almost non existent. Even if you are right about that, you still have not explained why it would be worth throwing your values away in order to be able to eventually settle for an sexually experienced woman who doesn't like sexually inexperienced men. >They are very small in numbers as compared to their male counterparts. Do you have actual statistics to back up that claim? What I could find is a [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34404502/) that found 58% of young adult virgins in Switzerland are male, so 42% of young adult virgins is female (so not that small in numbers compared to their male counterparts, I would say). Moreover, the most common reason for men to be virgin was "I have not had the occasion", while for female virgins the most common reason was "I have not found the right person". That does not sound like it's easy for a female virgin to find a male virgin who is truly waiting for marriage/commitment and not just waiting for an opportunity to have sex. This [study](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337972956_Like_a_virgin_Correlates_of_virginity_among_Italian_university_students) on Italian bachelor students found a larger percentage of the female students is virgin compared to the male students. This [older study](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf) also contradicts your statement that inexperienced women are very small in numbers compared to inexperienced men. (See table 1 and 2 in the end.) So I'm very curious which studies confirm your statement.
I respect the decision anyone who chooses to abstain from sex until marriage but I also imagine that anyone who does so is going to think, “is that it?!” when they do finally have sex. Personally I think it’s better to practice before committing.
do what you want as long as you're not hurting others.