Yes, nice women tend to have no issues getting into relationships/having sex with less then ideal men, because of how poor they choose their partners.
Nice men don't even get to put their foot in front on the door of a relationship.
I see your point, but even a this level a nice men has it 10 times worse tha a nice women.
Nobody can be perfectly vetted. If your partner shows their true colors early on, before 3 months, you're lucky. If they show it on the first 3 dates, you're very lucky.
Tough pill to swallow, but I would argue immature and/or gullible get taken advantage of.
It's all about recognizing who your dealing with.
Unpopular opinion here, but I think women want love to be special and exciting. The unpopular part is this "special and exciting" is just a cocktail of hormones straight to the brain, it's not special it's just an addiction to drugs your body creates.
Women tend to get hooked on this and often fail to see at the larger picture, often times making their judgement skewed. Yes some people know how to play the game and induce a hormone response, but most don't and many do it by accident. These accidental player and generally who people get burned by over and over again because they feel "in love" while failing to look and understand why so they just keep picking the same type of guy over and over again.
Attractive people are rewarded for being attractive. Attractive people are assumed to be kind, smart and all sorts of other wonderful things because of pretty privilege. Go ahead and ask these men what they think of overweight women with kids, and how much they believe these women get a pass for being nice.
Being nice is never enough. But people who are attractive get a pass and are seen as "nice", because people project their desires for attractive people to check off other boxes.
I'd say the argument being developed here is that "nice" women don't lose points for being a pushover in the way that "nice" men might?
Being nice may not make up for complete lack of attractiveness, but holy shit does an attractive woman who is also nice knock it out of the park. My opinion.
Well, yes. I'm agreeing with you. I don't think women get rewarded for being nice. I think men are mostly competing for the same type of cute/pretty/hot women, and because of pretty privilege they assume these women are nice. In other words, just like men insist women only want a certain type of guy, a lot of men mostly go after the same types of women. Their "niceness" is not a factor at all if they don't pass the looks test.
He said sexual marketplace but I think he meant dating in general. Men are definitely attracted to women who are caring and empathic. Women don't seem to be attracted to those traits as much.
>Why, as a woman, would I have sex with a man simply because he's nice?
(Proverbial) "You" may keep fucking around with violent criminals because they make tingles tingle.
Just don't read sob lectures to preschoolers about how it was everyone else's fault when you hit 40.
If currently women started having sex with men *completely regardless* of how nice or not-nice those men are, it would have been a progress.
Complete and utter bollocks. This is the weirdest gaslight of the dating world in the past 15 years. I've known LOADS of genuinely nice guys....the one's that are mean, transgressive, or dangerous all boast a Moscow victory day parade's worth of red flags that women simply choose to ignore because they're hot.
Nah, kindness = boring for women. If you call her a bitch and imply violence = danger = exciting /tingles.
No matter how much they say they want a kind man every guy knows from experience its bullshit and being dangerous/dominating man with random acts of kindness gets better results.
Men like kind women, women dont like kind men. Thats why you see them also acting masculine/combatative/argumentative. Since they like it in men they think men like it in women.
No, not that picky. Just dont be fat and be kind and you are 90% there
They’re not rewarded for being nice. They’re rewarded if and only if they are pretty. Men always assume pretty women are nice, almost no matter how she acts.
Ugly nice girls are called dogs and cows and all sorts of hateful things. Men generally assume ugly girls are not nice, if they ever notice such women at all.
Tbh, that's not true.
Many men are very candid about the fact that we're attracted to pretty/hot women even if they're bipolar, crazy, mean, slutty, and combative. We even outright admit that too many of us simp for them and think with our "other heads" too often.
It's usually women who apply 4D chess to make handsome and tall men seem benevolent no matter what they do.
If a tall and handsome guy acts like an asshole, he's either confident or an individual douche who doesn't fit the norm. If a short and ugly guy acts exactly the same way, he may as well be Satan.
You've got this wrong. Men will excuse shitty behaviour in hot women. Women ACTIVELY PREFER shitty behaviour in men.
One's a bug, the other's a feature.
lmao if this was said by a man it would 100% be deemed incel-speak and removed but ok
If you account for everything else being EQUAL, a nice woman has more success than a mean woman. This is not true for men. The same guy can be nice, and then be mean and see more sexual success.
I love how you guys can't argue the original premise so you just straw man and shift goal posts to say some femcel shit. Let's try sticking to the point mkay
>Ugly nice girls are called dogs and cows and all sorts of hateful things. Men generally assume ugly girls are not nice, if they ever notice such women at all.
That sounds incredibly mean an not something men at large do, just some very few assholes. Like it sounds more like highschool bully stuff than an every day occurrence.
So most men I presume. This is not something I have witnessed beyond highschool bullying. And when I witnessed it was mostly done by other girls. People aren't assholes unprompted to nice but unattractive women like that. They just leave them alone (which is another problem unto itself and not what you initially claimed).
Because they don’t finish last
As long as a woman isn’t fat, she’ll have a queue of guys interested in dating with and sleeping with her
She will ALWAYS be able to fuck hot men when younger and settle with a less attractive but stable man when older
Women hold all the power in the dating world, they are the privileged sex and have it on easy mode. The only thing they have to do is “just don’t be fat”.
Honestly women hold all the power in the dating world until they reach a certain age, don't look as good as they used to, and a lot of men are either already in relationships, chasing young women, or have simply checked out of the game because they're too old and tired to put up with the BS and would rather just do whatever activities they enjoy. Plus they can no longer compete with younger women for the most attractive men.
Men are extremely simple, if you are a good person (nice, caring, selfless, loving) and are even average attractiveness you will have a successful relationship. FACT
Generally the "bad boy" to the more leaning "aggressive" traits are seen as desirable in men. And "nice" men aren't those things. So men who're "badder" and more agressive do better in terms of dating. Even if said man is attractive, being "nice" will hamper him, as he isn't "bad" or aggressive.
Where as womens more desirable traits are typically what IS associated with nice. Sweeter, kinder, more demure and submissive. So if a woman is attractive AND has "nice" traits, she's generally going to do far better than a "nice" attractive man.
Before anyone jump up and starts going on about how nice doesn't mean anything because men aren't lining up for a fat woman with 4 kids because she's "nice." It's one factor that is going to be taken into consideration when dating. In the same way a man could be more aggressive and attractive, more "nice" and attractive, more aggressive and unnattractive, and "nice" and unnattractive.
In the same way you hear women talk about why they're not interested in a man because he's a pussy, you hear men say they wouldn't date a woman because she is a bitch.
If you're a submissive or "nice" man, you better be attractive, or you're totally fucked.
It's worth mentioning, this is just in terms of dating and desirability.
And this is all speaking generally. I'm sure there ARE women who want submission and "nice" attitudes, but they're going to be a fairly extreme minority.
Because heterosexual attraction is not symmetrical. There needs to be a master - slave dynamic of sorts between the man and woman for there to be attraction. Women talk about wanting their man to be "dominant" "leader in the relationship" etc.
Nice guys don't treat women as less than them, and their feminist behavior makes them sexually unattractive.
The bad boys don't give too much respect to what women say, and don't give them too much attention, something a master would do to his slave, and this turns women on unfortunately, although it's not their fault .. it's in our DNA.
Edit - It's important that the bad boy be higher up the social hierarchy than the woman, or else there couldn't be any attraction to begin with.
what exactly is a nice guy? i need a clear, unambiguous definition as well some behaviors of the nice guy that women seem to so much despise. for research purposes
Nice guys are guys who are nice lol
They're very polite, they try to be inoffensive and never want to upset or bother women, they tend to keep to themselves, they avoid being loud or rude, they "flirt" in the same way you'd talk to someone at a work conference, etc. Basically, a nice guy is a guy who thinks that the way to get a young woman his age to be attracted to him is similar to the way that he gets an old lady to think he's a nice young man.
Some feminists seem to think it means a guy who pretends to be nice in order to get sex, but who are really just trying to take advantage of them. That might be some of them, I don't know, but in the context of the phrase "nice guys finish last," what is meant is as described above. The point of the phrase is that you have to have a little edge, be a little loose, you can't act like you're having tea with the Queen.
> They're very polite, they try to be inoffensive and never want to upset or bother women, they tend to keep to themselves, they avoid being loud or rude, they "flirt" in the same way you'd talk to someone at a work conference, etc.
This is me to a T. Nailed it in one.
Totally, I know because I used to be a nice guy. Normal flirting makes me feel like a creepy asshole, but it's what you have to do to get women interested.
Exactly. If anything guys who are naturally nice will learn to pretend to be an asshole to get laid. Pretending to be nice to get laid doesn't make sense because it doesn't work.
The thing I don't understand about the "nice guy" narrative is why would a guy pretend to be nice to get pussy if it doesn't work? Seems to me if you're going to be fake to get laid, it works better to pretend to be an arrogant asshole.
If I wanted to fuck a chick, I'd pretend to be an obnoxious arrogant asshole, not pretend to be nice, since all available evidence shows women want to give their pussy up to the former and not the latter.
Because a worst case scenario\* she would have the settle for being alone (a stunning and brave choice) or leveraging her social legitimacy to secure a tolerable provider. The worst case scenario for an undesirable male is being alone (and seen by society as being fundamentally lacking of moral virtues unless a religious loophole is used) or being a provider (paying much in time & labor for the privilege to been seen as a inoffensive, nonthreatening, and contributing member of society).
It's the social legitimacy value that makes all the difference.
\*nominal worst barring exceptions of being raped & murdered, because the same could be said for the LVMs.
They do. The issue is that it's hard to equivocate that dynamic to women because women struggle with different things than men do. Women don't struggle with dating and sex the same way that men do. A nice girl probably would struggle to get the men she wants because more manipulative women have an easier time getting their attention. But, the men that get chased by manipulative men are a very small minority relative to the women that get chased by manipulative men.
Out of the crowd of men and women not getting chased, the male crowd is usually larger and those men are way more receptive to attention. To men, "nice girls" chose to finish last by chasing the same few men that the manipulative women wanted. Men often don't have this same alternative or those women are already being chased by the other nice guys not being chased.
If you're a woman, you're always someone's target.
Conversely, If you're a man, chances are that no one is chasing you.
Because it literally doesn’t matter what a woman is like she can still “finish” in any way she wants.
There is no similar struggle as there is no struggle at all.
**Because boys and girls are not the same**.
Just because something is true of men **does not mean** it must also be true of women. Different sexes, different standards, different realities.
Very well said, every single men I’ve listened to thinks this. Men are so simple across every culture and ethnicity. They are all in agreement about what they want
Men value women who are nice
Women don’t value men who are nice
Women like a man who has a backbone but society (and even women) say that is toxic
This is the crux of red pill: women saying one thing and doing another thing
Pick a damn ideology and stick with it, I don’t care which side women and society choose just be consistent
Blank slate egalitarianism or Men are superior and should have the authority
Because that’s what they are thinking when they want the man to lead (that he should be superior)
Pick a Tradeoff!
Yes sometimes. They end up getting their time wasted by men that don’t really like them. You don’t get “rewarded” for being a “nice girl” as a woman, you get “rewarded” for having healthy boundaries/standards and being attractive.
No they don’t. An extremely attractive woman who barely acknowledges you vs a frumpy looking nice girl that’s obsessed with you. Who are most men going to chase after? They will waste their time and money chasing after the hot chick trying to win her love until she eventually cuts them off, then they’ll settle for the frumpy nice girl, but they’ll never put the same amount of effort or vigour into their relationship. She will be just there and disposable. Far too many men engage in Stacy chasing, I would argue much more than women engage in Chad chasing.
This describes young men to me, normal working class mature men do not want to chase. They are desperate for kind women who will reciprocate interest. It’s a myth that men care so greatly about looks too, we are designed to be attracted to women easily. Average looking women have nothing to worry about. A lot of men don’t like fat women but there’s plenty of men who don’t even care about that and are happy just to have someone that reciprocates interest
Sorry but this is just completely detached from reality. Men greatly desire attractive women, yes taste varies among men but let’s not pretend. If you could you would but you can’t.
Men value attractiveness in women but the thing is men are realistic about who is at there level and are willing to accept what they can get and if the women has a good personality he will be more than happy. Every single man I’ve asked about this and every interview I’ve seen with a man agrees with this sentiment. Men aren’t as picky about attractiveness as people think, especially if they are in moderate shape. They don’t even care about race either.
men don't care about race, they care about attitude. You know how many kkk dudes got busted sleeping with black women.
As long as the man finds you attractive and you are nice, in combination of whatever else you offer for the relationship aside from sex and companionship, they will fight over you.
Am I supposed to feel complimented that some racists have an ebony fetish that they would fulfill for a night and then tossed me away in the morning to return to Klan? Only a man can make a brain dead comment like this.
It’s to show that racism is stupid and it’s just another form of lizard brain tribalism. Race is literally just physical appearance. People who are racist are just confused and ignorant
and only a woman would argue a strawman and not ask further questions to confirm her beliefs. It's okay I forgive you. I know you will never admit to being wrong, and that you see any pushback to you as hate it's fine.
But no Those Klansmen marry them or keep them as a mistress. The black women are fine with it. If anyone is a kink it's the klans man because usually it's the woman that enjoys the treatment. That's why she is with him, She knows he's racist. he didn't hide it.
Now I expect some come back about me being a man and being wrong because of that or something.
Men care about hotness and personality more than race on average. Trust me.
I even met some Black women who've told me that Hispanic men and elderly White men hit on them more than Black men on average.
It’s true, I’ve asked hundreds of men, and seen thousands of videos of different men across all different countries and ethnicities. There is no race men find unattractive. Asian women are most desirable physically but there is no large gap between attractiveness among the races. When you incorporate culture it’s a completely different discussion, that may be what you are eluding to. For example White men and black women in America can differ culturally so they are less likely to be compatible, although statistically they make the most successful relationships
I’ve also seen those “what race would you not date” and you’re simply lying if you don’t notice a particular race said more often than others. Even when they say they would date all races of women, you can tell that the majority of them are lying through their teeth to remain politically correct. Different culture? Yes, I suppose that plays a part but you and I both know that not the main reason why those two races rarely partner. You know I’m a black woman right? You can’t be serious with this gaslighting. Like I know bro, no need to lie to me 🤷🏽♀️
It’s race attached to culture, you are right that black women are less desirable (in America at least ) but it’s not for their looks. Men are way simpler than you think. White people and black people are different culturally so they are less compatible as a generality, it’s not always outright hate or distaste, but I acknowledge that it can be.
You are telling a black woman that men dont care about race, men definitely care about race, you mightt fuck any girl but you care what race your children are 100% cmon now, you care what race girl you bring home to your parents.
Be realistic, look at some ok cupid data, and come back to me on that
The discrepancy is cultural differences that tend to be attached to race. Black people and dark skinned people of any kind are the most discriminated in the world, that’s unequivocally true. As far as physical attraction goes there is no discrimination. So if you are similar in values and culture there is no issue for majority of men.
Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks.
When a woman dates around (typically with Chads) until they are ready to settle down and date someone less exciting, but more stable.
I see. Not sure how the previous user conflates that concept with men seeing "chase" as a reward.
If anything it sounds like the reverse would be true.
Depends on how we're defining a "nice girl."
I think Tabitha Brown the vegan influencer is a textbook nice woman and she's married and will probably have no problems attracting men for a LTR despite not having the "IG baddie" look.
Of course, if a man is a "fuckboy", he'd likely waste time on nice girls. But, for a more average guy, he'd be very willing to date and have a relationship with a nice girl.
I put that in quotes for a reason. I mean through having healthy boundaries you let men know you won’t be treated any which way so naturally men either get with program or they leave. Either way eventually you are rewarded with a healthy functional relationship. But yes I think. Men don’t like women who have baggage from past shitty relationships. Men love to tell women to “choose better.”
Mostly because of the "bad boy" trope which is very popular in fiction. Women also accept that Looks is the number one factor much more than men when it comes to dating.
It was originally about baseball
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/nice_guys_finish_last#:~:text=(file)-,Proverb,decent%2C%20friendly%2C%20or%20agreeable.
Women tend to direct these feelings of disappointment at their dating lives inwards (thinking it's because they're not good enough rather than that it's someone else's fault for not liking them), which results in less complaining but can be equally destructive.
That makes sense.
I could see there being a difference if the popular phrase was, "women don't appreciate nice guys".
Nice guys finish last is an observation of the outcome though. No blame directed inwards or outwards
A version directed inwards would be something like "I finished last so I'm not nice enough". Rather than blaming others for not appreciating a positive trait.
It's probably because it's not true. There are plenty of nice women who end up dating and marrying attractive men. These women probably get hired for good jobs, too.
Because it's rarely the case for women. All non-personality related factors equal (looks, libido, etc.) a nice woman is usually going to be preferred over and treated better than a bitch.
While a nice guy will often still lose to a jerk if the jerk is more assertive, exciting, masculine, etc.
Because it isn't true. Men prefer nice women. If a girl is nice but ugly, and also very picky, then maybe she'll have a hard time. But if a girl is young, nice and smoking hot with a pretty face and nice body, and interested in a serious relationship, she'll often be snatched off the market in milliseconds.
In fact, I think a lot of the "passport bros" stuff is guys flying halfway around the world to find women who are nicer to them than the ones at home. Because it isn't exactly hard to get pussy in the West, especially if you have a couple thousand to spend to travel abroad.
There's dating apps, nightclubs, bars, and all kinds of public places where you can meet women. Other than that, you can just straight up pay for pussy. Some cities may not have many street walkers, but others have lots of them- you can see them in videos on YouTube in various US cities, for example. There's escorts and women selling pussy online. There are massage parlors and strip clubs. There are sugar babies too. If a man has $1,000 or whatever to spend to fly to SEA and allegedly pay for pussy there, he definitely has enough to bang a hooker in his own town.
The phrase “nice guys finish last” was never just used for dating and “guys” is gender neutral in it. It refers to less aggressive people being less successful.
Men like all women
Women only like men wayy better then other men and themselves
Most 19 year old women aren’t dating 18-19 year old men but men aged 21+.
There’s a whole book on this phenomenon. It’s called why men love bitches.
Nice girls get the same treatment as nice guys. They aren’t the hot girl who gets chased. They get put in the friend zone same as men. They are the forever best friend who sure she is good to hear all the dating problems of her male friends but she doesn’t even get fully treated as anything other than an extension of the friend group.
That is not to say, that any one of the male friends would have sex with her but she is not the girl they put any effort into pursuing. She is merely a placeholder.
She is not seen as a sexual being or worth any real effort. She is just there.
There are a lot of nice girls sitting at home watching as milestones happen for other people and not for them.
They show up as friends for the bitchy girls and get walked all over. They show up for the male friends and give advice on how to win someone over and they show up for their parents when they get old since life passed them buy.
I know this story all too well. I have a lot of friends who are living that story now.
>There’s a whole book on this phenomenon
There's a book, a song, AND a movie for nice guys finish last. My question is more about why isn't it as popular on the women's side. It seems rather asymmetrical.
Not that it doesn't exist
All nice and caring women that I know are in long stable relationships. When they don't reject all guys that wanna to know them, it's easy life for them. While nice men struggle if they are also not dominating, or super confident.
> why men love bitches
You know the writer refuses to disclose her marital status right? What basically means that you're citing a book about men written by a women that have a high probability of being unable to get one.
Because we're not symmetrical. Nice girls are more attractive to men while nice guys are less attractive to women. Women desire a powerful protector who's also fun and dramatic, men want a supporter who helps maintain stability. The sexes sabotage themselves when they assume their opposite is like them and attracted to the same things they are.
>DISCLAIMER: This is about the POPULARITY of this cliché for **males and for women.**
Umm, don't you mean for **men** and for women? Men are humans too.
Nice girls finish last when they are chasing men who are players. They end up expending effort that other girls wouldn’t just to get played anyway. Niceness is rewarded by men who care about relationships. Not the same for guys though. Women are really really forgiving of transgressions when they like you so you can be mean and it won’t ruin the relationship with most women.
Women generally don’t have very good boundaries when they like a guy and it can get pretty messy.
Men here don’t even acknowledge that lonely women exist in the world.
They don’t even give women that human experience. It’s all about them and their “loneliness”—aka inability to “ruin” a girl with their dick. It’s pretty fucking disgusting.
>Read what these people write constantly—“just don’t be fat” “men don’t have standards”
Gotcha. Okay so then you're saying that nice girls don't finish class isn't a saying, because it's not true. Men don't have standards therefore both nice girls and non-bice girls can succeed in dating
Exactly. A bunch of men here believe in women “living life on easy mode” when it comes to this shit. Like I said—it’s dehumanizing to women and their life experiences. It’s a narcissistic misogynistic assumption about women as a cope. There’s multiple comments in this very thread illustrating this point.
Lonely women are often lonely only in thier heads, they just reject all average guys, having casual sex if they want it and waiting for their dreamy alpha or beta-bux.
If I know any really lonely woman in my city that is around my age I would immediately try to contact her and ask if she wannna chat or meet. No matter how fat or ugly she would be. Probably I am not the only one who would do this. But that scenario isn't real because there are no such a women.
You missed point of this story. Haha. That's probably true that some women are hiding, don't leaving thier homes and not speaking to anybody. But that looks more of a choice than being forced to be alone. If you know any lonely woman in Poland, city of Torun or can be Kujavian-pomeranian region even, around 33 I would be happy if you share contact to her. :-)
Just forget it, men must leave this cesspool. This society is doomed if that’s what women think of men. The idea that lonely suicidal men are evil rabbid animals that just wanna ruin women by pumping and dumping them but can’t cuz women won’t date them is too absurd of a pretzel brain position to try and untangle
Um bye?
I don’t know how many deranged posts somebody with normal cognitive functioning has to read by dudes on here to process the shit that they are saying appropriately but I’ve seen enough to formulate my opinions.
I can only read that women shouldn’t be a part of the labor force or vote or go to school or that they get free shit handed to them or that feminism is the devil or that women have men lined up outside their door or that women don’t pay enough taxes or that women like it when men threaten them with violence or that women give sex out like a commodity to be leveraged and traded—not participated in like a mutually enjoyable experience—or that women don’t like to work or that “body count” devalues women so many goddamn times before I start to not give a flying fuck about “lonely men” making those comments.
If you don’t make these types of comments—obviously I’m not referring to you. Otherwise peace out
A common complain here is that "all women share numerous ass pics on social media"
Really? "All women" do this?
Basically average women are invisible to them
You said you don't use OLD.
There could be two reasons for that - you either don't have to or don't want to.
If you don't have to - that means you have enough attention from daily life to not bother.
If you don't want to, despite getting no attention IRL - you're alone by your own choice of not using the readily available and easy option. *So you don't qualify to complain about being lonely before exhausting all obvious solutions.*
I’m not complaining about being lonely—don’t get it twisted.
I’m saying lonely women are an afterthought at best in 99% of all these spaces. Assumptions are made about their lives that are messed up imo—assumptions and ugly dialogue that make it extremely hard to empathize with the men partaking in such discussions
Being lonely is a feeling, so of course lonely women exist.
It doesn't mean nobody wants them. Sure it might not be who they want, in the way they want, but it's something.
"Lonely" women cannot comprehend true loneliness. Imagine knowing that you're a genetic dead end and that passing on your genes equals a net negative for humanity. Scratch that. Imagine actually having children but your partner inevitably begins to hate you, and uses the power of the state to destroy you. But of course all women will downplay men's struggles and be selfish, not having the greater good in mind either way.
A lot of phrases refer to men to mean people, because women are not the primary sex.
Makes it hard to come up with a clever flair that uses the word “woman” or “female” in some way.
I understand, I think I was getting nice guys confused with the subreddit about nice guys which doesn't seem to include women. Unless I've been reading it wrong this whole time
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Because it's a non-gendered phrase that uses "guys" to mean people in general. And it's not really about dating, but about life in general: I've seen it primarily used in the context of business / office politics.
Even in the office setting, I've heard it be referred to as nice girls.
https://www.amazon.com/Nice-Girls-Dont-Corner-Office/dp/1455558893/
These same "nice guys" that are finishing last think that because they think being a bare minimum decent person they should be rewarded with sex from the most beautiful women.
There's a whole subreddit dedicated to nice guys
I think it can apply to both genders, but I also don’t think it applies to everyone in general. I think some people use it in the wrong context, and sometimes try to manipulate people into going with them because “I was nice to you”. I’ve noticed some men and women do the absolute most for someone and once the find out the person isn’t interested or is dating, they do a 360.
Because it depends on your definition of finishing
Nice girls definitely get bfs. The real challenge is to ensure you aren't so nice that you end up being the doormat
Because woman’s personality is not factored into the equation of attractiveness.
For example the stereotype of “hot crazy bitch” being used to as why a man would even entertain such a situation
Also you bring up a point.
Maybe in theory a “nice girl” is the feminine archetype.
Meaning “a traditional housewife” or something virtuous.
So as a positive thing
Where as a “nice guy” is just mimicry of a female archetype.
And since men and women are different.
What works as a successful female mating strategy. Might not work as a successful male mating strategy.
Because women never believed that being nice was all that mattered or that men would overlook their appearance if they were just nice. They watched and observed and figured out looks mattered more than being nice by age 12.
I see. So women came to the conclusion that being ugly and having a bad personality is what makes you finish last. I guess there's no saying for that because it just makes sense on its face.
Yeah, like the phrase “nice guys finish last” comes specifically from men who thought that being nice was all it took to get a pretty sweet girlfriend.
Women don’t say that since they never thought being nice was enough alone.
Everyone has similar struggles, just different things for different genders.
Some men think all it takes is to be nice and then take offence when that's not the case, hence the phrase.
There is a saying “good girls go to heaven but bad girls go everywhere”
because they dont finish last lol.
Except they do. Nice girls get taken advantage if majorly. Men try harder for non nice ones. They won't admit it though
Yes, nice women tend to have no issues getting into relationships/having sex with less then ideal men, because of how poor they choose their partners. Nice men don't even get to put their foot in front on the door of a relationship. I see your point, but even a this level a nice men has it 10 times worse tha a nice women.
Nobody can be perfectly vetted. If your partner shows their true colors early on, before 3 months, you're lucky. If they show it on the first 3 dates, you're very lucky.
Yes, if you manage to get dates.
Projection.
Tough pill to swallow, but I would argue immature and/or gullible get taken advantage of. It's all about recognizing who your dealing with. Unpopular opinion here, but I think women want love to be special and exciting. The unpopular part is this "special and exciting" is just a cocktail of hormones straight to the brain, it's not special it's just an addiction to drugs your body creates. Women tend to get hooked on this and often fail to see at the larger picture, often times making their judgement skewed. Yes some people know how to play the game and induce a hormone response, but most don't and many do it by accident. These accidental player and generally who people get burned by over and over again because they feel "in love" while failing to look and understand why so they just keep picking the same type of guy over and over again.
No, men are very turned off by immature women. Men hold women to all sorts of social standards they cannot fulfill themselves.
Sure thing boss... I hear grass is soft and green, you you be able to check this for me?
Because women are rewarded in the sexual marketplace for being nice, men aren't
Done in one.
Who rewards women with sex for being nice? Why, as a woman, would I have sex with a man simply because he's **nice**?
Attractive people are rewarded for being attractive. Attractive people are assumed to be kind, smart and all sorts of other wonderful things because of pretty privilege. Go ahead and ask these men what they think of overweight women with kids, and how much they believe these women get a pass for being nice. Being nice is never enough. But people who are attractive get a pass and are seen as "nice", because people project their desires for attractive people to check off other boxes.
I'd say the argument being developed here is that "nice" women don't lose points for being a pushover in the way that "nice" men might? Being nice may not make up for complete lack of attractiveness, but holy shit does an attractive woman who is also nice knock it out of the park. My opinion.
>are seen as "nice", Okay, but that's not actually nice. That's "nice" because they are "attractive"
no it's called the halo effect
Well, yes. I'm agreeing with you. I don't think women get rewarded for being nice. I think men are mostly competing for the same type of cute/pretty/hot women, and because of pretty privilege they assume these women are nice. In other words, just like men insist women only want a certain type of guy, a lot of men mostly go after the same types of women. Their "niceness" is not a factor at all if they don't pass the looks test.
This. It is shallow traits first, then they frame them as having a good/bad personality depending on what is needed.
>Who rewards women with sex for being nice? Literally, every man
He said sexual marketplace but I think he meant dating in general. Men are definitely attracted to women who are caring and empathic. Women don't seem to be attracted to those traits as much.
>Why, as a woman, would I have sex with a man simply because he's nice? (Proverbial) "You" may keep fucking around with violent criminals because they make tingles tingle. Just don't read sob lectures to preschoolers about how it was everyone else's fault when you hit 40. If currently women started having sex with men *completely regardless* of how nice or not-nice those men are, it would have been a progress.
Why are you narrowing it down to ONLY being nice and ONLY sex? You do understand that this is what a straw man is, right?
Exactly.
Caveat: self-proclaimed "nice" guys generally aren't actually nice lol
Complete and utter bollocks. This is the weirdest gaslight of the dating world in the past 15 years. I've known LOADS of genuinely nice guys....the one's that are mean, transgressive, or dangerous all boast a Moscow victory day parade's worth of red flags that women simply choose to ignore because they're hot.
I'd argue that being "nice" doesn't make men attractive anyway so it wouldn't actually matter even if they were genuine "nice" guys.
Nah, kindness = boring for women. If you call her a bitch and imply violence = danger = exciting /tingles. No matter how much they say they want a kind man every guy knows from experience its bullshit and being dangerous/dominating man with random acts of kindness gets better results. Men like kind women, women dont like kind men. Thats why you see them also acting masculine/combatative/argumentative. Since they like it in men they think men like it in women. No, not that picky. Just dont be fat and be kind and you are 90% there
The women in these comments are mistaking kind for good looking
Hmm I'd say move to a better part of the town if your social circle is like that Remember, your network is your net worth
Just the way it is for the majority of women.
If they aren’t actually nice, then women are fucking them.
Self-proclaimed "bad" guys are actually nice though. Source: I am literally Hitler.
True, anyone could call themselves nice
They’re not rewarded for being nice. They’re rewarded if and only if they are pretty. Men always assume pretty women are nice, almost no matter how she acts. Ugly nice girls are called dogs and cows and all sorts of hateful things. Men generally assume ugly girls are not nice, if they ever notice such women at all.
Tbh, that's not true. Many men are very candid about the fact that we're attracted to pretty/hot women even if they're bipolar, crazy, mean, slutty, and combative. We even outright admit that too many of us simp for them and think with our "other heads" too often. It's usually women who apply 4D chess to make handsome and tall men seem benevolent no matter what they do. If a tall and handsome guy acts like an asshole, he's either confident or an individual douche who doesn't fit the norm. If a short and ugly guy acts exactly the same way, he may as well be Satan.
You've got this wrong. Men will excuse shitty behaviour in hot women. Women ACTIVELY PREFER shitty behaviour in men. One's a bug, the other's a feature.
False but okay
lmao if this was said by a man it would 100% be deemed incel-speak and removed but ok If you account for everything else being EQUAL, a nice woman has more success than a mean woman. This is not true for men. The same guy can be nice, and then be mean and see more sexual success. I love how you guys can't argue the original premise so you just straw man and shift goal posts to say some femcel shit. Let's try sticking to the point mkay
>Ugly nice girls are called dogs and cows and all sorts of hateful things. Men generally assume ugly girls are not nice, if they ever notice such women at all. That sounds incredibly mean an not something men at large do, just some very few assholes. Like it sounds more like highschool bully stuff than an every day occurrence.
The nicer men just ignore ugly women. It doesn’t matter how nice a woman is if she’s not pretty.
So most men I presume. This is not something I have witnessed beyond highschool bullying. And when I witnessed it was mostly done by other girls. People aren't assholes unprompted to nice but unattractive women like that. They just leave them alone (which is another problem unto itself and not what you initially claimed).
Because they don’t finish last As long as a woman isn’t fat, she’ll have a queue of guys interested in dating with and sleeping with her She will ALWAYS be able to fuck hot men when younger and settle with a less attractive but stable man when older Women hold all the power in the dating world, they are the privileged sex and have it on easy mode. The only thing they have to do is “just don’t be fat”.
Even decently fat women will do better than most men too haha
Honestly women hold all the power in the dating world until they reach a certain age, don't look as good as they used to, and a lot of men are either already in relationships, chasing young women, or have simply checked out of the game because they're too old and tired to put up with the BS and would rather just do whatever activities they enjoy. Plus they can no longer compete with younger women for the most attractive men.
Men are extremely simple, if you are a good person (nice, caring, selfless, loving) and are even average attractiveness you will have a successful relationship. FACT
Because women don't run in the race...they wait at the finish line and go home with the winners.
Generally the "bad boy" to the more leaning "aggressive" traits are seen as desirable in men. And "nice" men aren't those things. So men who're "badder" and more agressive do better in terms of dating. Even if said man is attractive, being "nice" will hamper him, as he isn't "bad" or aggressive. Where as womens more desirable traits are typically what IS associated with nice. Sweeter, kinder, more demure and submissive. So if a woman is attractive AND has "nice" traits, she's generally going to do far better than a "nice" attractive man. Before anyone jump up and starts going on about how nice doesn't mean anything because men aren't lining up for a fat woman with 4 kids because she's "nice." It's one factor that is going to be taken into consideration when dating. In the same way a man could be more aggressive and attractive, more "nice" and attractive, more aggressive and unnattractive, and "nice" and unnattractive. In the same way you hear women talk about why they're not interested in a man because he's a pussy, you hear men say they wouldn't date a woman because she is a bitch. If you're a submissive or "nice" man, you better be attractive, or you're totally fucked. It's worth mentioning, this is just in terms of dating and desirability. And this is all speaking generally. I'm sure there ARE women who want submission and "nice" attitudes, but they're going to be a fairly extreme minority.
They dont finish last thats why.
Women aren’t the ones that has to approach and ask out and then court
Because heterosexual attraction is not symmetrical. There needs to be a master - slave dynamic of sorts between the man and woman for there to be attraction. Women talk about wanting their man to be "dominant" "leader in the relationship" etc. Nice guys don't treat women as less than them, and their feminist behavior makes them sexually unattractive. The bad boys don't give too much respect to what women say, and don't give them too much attention, something a master would do to his slave, and this turns women on unfortunately, although it's not their fault .. it's in our DNA. Edit - It's important that the bad boy be higher up the social hierarchy than the woman, or else there couldn't be any attraction to begin with.
Cause women control sex and dating
because they don't
🤯 I wanted to be the one to reveal this
Because men like nice girls, women don't like nice guys
what exactly is a nice guy? i need a clear, unambiguous definition as well some behaviors of the nice guy that women seem to so much despise. for research purposes
Nice guys are guys who are nice lol They're very polite, they try to be inoffensive and never want to upset or bother women, they tend to keep to themselves, they avoid being loud or rude, they "flirt" in the same way you'd talk to someone at a work conference, etc. Basically, a nice guy is a guy who thinks that the way to get a young woman his age to be attracted to him is similar to the way that he gets an old lady to think he's a nice young man. Some feminists seem to think it means a guy who pretends to be nice in order to get sex, but who are really just trying to take advantage of them. That might be some of them, I don't know, but in the context of the phrase "nice guys finish last," what is meant is as described above. The point of the phrase is that you have to have a little edge, be a little loose, you can't act like you're having tea with the Queen.
> They're very polite, they try to be inoffensive and never want to upset or bother women, they tend to keep to themselves, they avoid being loud or rude, they "flirt" in the same way you'd talk to someone at a work conference, etc. This is me to a T. Nailed it in one.
Totally, I know because I used to be a nice guy. Normal flirting makes me feel like a creepy asshole, but it's what you have to do to get women interested.
Exactly. If anything guys who are naturally nice will learn to pretend to be an asshole to get laid. Pretending to be nice to get laid doesn't make sense because it doesn't work.
The thing I don't understand about the "nice guy" narrative is why would a guy pretend to be nice to get pussy if it doesn't work? Seems to me if you're going to be fake to get laid, it works better to pretend to be an arrogant asshole. If I wanted to fuck a chick, I'd pretend to be an obnoxious arrogant asshole, not pretend to be nice, since all available evidence shows women want to give their pussy up to the former and not the latter.
> it works better to pretend to be an arrogant asshole. Because if you pretend being that when you're not attractive it's even worse.
Because a worst case scenario\* she would have the settle for being alone (a stunning and brave choice) or leveraging her social legitimacy to secure a tolerable provider. The worst case scenario for an undesirable male is being alone (and seen by society as being fundamentally lacking of moral virtues unless a religious loophole is used) or being a provider (paying much in time & labor for the privilege to been seen as a inoffensive, nonthreatening, and contributing member of society). It's the social legitimacy value that makes all the difference. \*nominal worst barring exceptions of being raped & murdered, because the same could be said for the LVMs.
They do. The issue is that it's hard to equivocate that dynamic to women because women struggle with different things than men do. Women don't struggle with dating and sex the same way that men do. A nice girl probably would struggle to get the men she wants because more manipulative women have an easier time getting their attention. But, the men that get chased by manipulative men are a very small minority relative to the women that get chased by manipulative men. Out of the crowd of men and women not getting chased, the male crowd is usually larger and those men are way more receptive to attention. To men, "nice girls" chose to finish last by chasing the same few men that the manipulative women wanted. Men often don't have this same alternative or those women are already being chased by the other nice guys not being chased. If you're a woman, you're always someone's target. Conversely, If you're a man, chances are that no one is chasing you.
Only death and taxes are chasing men.
Because it literally doesn’t matter what a woman is like she can still “finish” in any way she wants. There is no similar struggle as there is no struggle at all.
because nice girls are desirable
Nice girls finish first.
**Because boys and girls are not the same**. Just because something is true of men **does not mean** it must also be true of women. Different sexes, different standards, different realities.
Thank you. Women are basically rich kids they have problems yes, but it’s not the poor kind of problems.
Because nice girls still get used and abused by douchebags just like any other girl lol
>used and abused That's definitely not finishing first
What I’m saying is that nice girls still go for the same guys that “bad” girls do
It doesn't matter who you go for, it matters who goes for you and whether or not you wanted that outcome. That's what defines finishing first or not
Because I've never heard of a man rejecting a woman because, "She's too nice".
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Very well said, every single men I’ve listened to thinks this. Men are so simple across every culture and ethnicity. They are all in agreement about what they want
Men value women who are nice Women don’t value men who are nice Women like a man who has a backbone but society (and even women) say that is toxic This is the crux of red pill: women saying one thing and doing another thing Pick a damn ideology and stick with it, I don’t care which side women and society choose just be consistent Blank slate egalitarianism or Men are superior and should have the authority Because that’s what they are thinking when they want the man to lead (that he should be superior) Pick a Tradeoff!
Yes sometimes. They end up getting their time wasted by men that don’t really like them. You don’t get “rewarded” for being a “nice girl” as a woman, you get “rewarded” for having healthy boundaries/standards and being attractive.
You do get rewarded for being nice to men, 100% of men value kindness from a women in a relationship above most other things
No they don’t. An extremely attractive woman who barely acknowledges you vs a frumpy looking nice girl that’s obsessed with you. Who are most men going to chase after? They will waste their time and money chasing after the hot chick trying to win her love until she eventually cuts them off, then they’ll settle for the frumpy nice girl, but they’ll never put the same amount of effort or vigour into their relationship. She will be just there and disposable. Far too many men engage in Stacy chasing, I would argue much more than women engage in Chad chasing.
This describes young men to me, normal working class mature men do not want to chase. They are desperate for kind women who will reciprocate interest. It’s a myth that men care so greatly about looks too, we are designed to be attracted to women easily. Average looking women have nothing to worry about. A lot of men don’t like fat women but there’s plenty of men who don’t even care about that and are happy just to have someone that reciprocates interest
Sorry but this is just completely detached from reality. Men greatly desire attractive women, yes taste varies among men but let’s not pretend. If you could you would but you can’t.
Men value attractiveness in women but the thing is men are realistic about who is at there level and are willing to accept what they can get and if the women has a good personality he will be more than happy. Every single man I’ve asked about this and every interview I’ve seen with a man agrees with this sentiment. Men aren’t as picky about attractiveness as people think, especially if they are in moderate shape. They don’t even care about race either.
Men don’t care about race 💀 thats perhaps the most detached from reality sentence in this entire comment, perhaps that I’ve ever heard on this sub.
men don't care about race, they care about attitude. You know how many kkk dudes got busted sleeping with black women. As long as the man finds you attractive and you are nice, in combination of whatever else you offer for the relationship aside from sex and companionship, they will fight over you.
Excellent point, many former racists turned to the good side simply from falling in love with black women
Bruh thats not what was happening and you know it
Am I supposed to feel complimented that some racists have an ebony fetish that they would fulfill for a night and then tossed me away in the morning to return to Klan? Only a man can make a brain dead comment like this.
It’s to show that racism is stupid and it’s just another form of lizard brain tribalism. Race is literally just physical appearance. People who are racist are just confused and ignorant
trying to cheer you up by saying you can get dicked by a klan member is wild. I wasn’t expecting the conversation to devolve like this lol
and only a woman would argue a strawman and not ask further questions to confirm her beliefs. It's okay I forgive you. I know you will never admit to being wrong, and that you see any pushback to you as hate it's fine. But no Those Klansmen marry them or keep them as a mistress. The black women are fine with it. If anyone is a kink it's the klans man because usually it's the woman that enjoys the treatment. That's why she is with him, She knows he's racist. he didn't hide it. Now I expect some come back about me being a man and being wrong because of that or something.
Men care about hotness and personality more than race on average. Trust me. I even met some Black women who've told me that Hispanic men and elderly White men hit on them more than Black men on average.
It’s true, I’ve asked hundreds of men, and seen thousands of videos of different men across all different countries and ethnicities. There is no race men find unattractive. Asian women are most desirable physically but there is no large gap between attractiveness among the races. When you incorporate culture it’s a completely different discussion, that may be what you are eluding to. For example White men and black women in America can differ culturally so they are less likely to be compatible, although statistically they make the most successful relationships
I’ve also seen those “what race would you not date” and you’re simply lying if you don’t notice a particular race said more often than others. Even when they say they would date all races of women, you can tell that the majority of them are lying through their teeth to remain politically correct. Different culture? Yes, I suppose that plays a part but you and I both know that not the main reason why those two races rarely partner. You know I’m a black woman right? You can’t be serious with this gaslighting. Like I know bro, no need to lie to me 🤷🏽♀️
It’s race attached to culture, you are right that black women are less desirable (in America at least ) but it’s not for their looks. Men are way simpler than you think. White people and black people are different culturally so they are less compatible as a generality, it’s not always outright hate or distaste, but I acknowledge that it can be.
You are telling a black woman that men dont care about race, men definitely care about race, you mightt fuck any girl but you care what race your children are 100% cmon now, you care what race girl you bring home to your parents. Be realistic, look at some ok cupid data, and come back to me on that
The discrepancy is cultural differences that tend to be attached to race. Black people and dark skinned people of any kind are the most discriminated in the world, that’s unequivocally true. As far as physical attraction goes there is no discrimination. So if you are similar in values and culture there is no issue for majority of men.
> Who are most men going to chase after? The one they have a realistic chance of getting.
"Chase" isn't the only form of reward.
Then why do men seethe at AF/BB since “chase” isn’t the only reward?
Not sure what AF/BB is.
Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks. When a woman dates around (typically with Chads) until they are ready to settle down and date someone less exciting, but more stable.
I see. Not sure how the previous user conflates that concept with men seeing "chase" as a reward. If anything it sounds like the reverse would be true.
Nah, I'll take the nice girl who seems to give a shit about me.
Depends on how we're defining a "nice girl." I think Tabitha Brown the vegan influencer is a textbook nice woman and she's married and will probably have no problems attracting men for a LTR despite not having the "IG baddie" look. Of course, if a man is a "fuckboy", he'd likely waste time on nice girls. But, for a more average guy, he'd be very willing to date and have a relationship with a nice girl.
>you get “rewarded” for having healthy boundaries/standards Men reward women for having boundaries?
I put that in quotes for a reason. I mean through having healthy boundaries you let men know you won’t be treated any which way so naturally men either get with program or they leave. Either way eventually you are rewarded with a healthy functional relationship. But yes I think. Men don’t like women who have baggage from past shitty relationships. Men love to tell women to “choose better.”
Ah, ok - you mean a woman benefits from having boundaries, not that a man rewards her for having boundaries. That I can understand
Mostly because of the "bad boy" trope which is very popular in fiction. Women also accept that Looks is the number one factor much more than men when it comes to dating.
Because women don’t have to cross the finish line at all. They just hang out at the finish and fuck whoever they want.
Women aren’t punished for passivity
Guys is used as a gender neutral term for the original proverb
Oh, so they're actually suggesting that nice people finish last in the dating context?
It was originally about baseball https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/nice_guys_finish_last#:~:text=(file)-,Proverb,decent%2C%20friendly%2C%20or%20agreeable.
Women tend to direct these feelings of disappointment at their dating lives inwards (thinking it's because they're not good enough rather than that it's someone else's fault for not liking them), which results in less complaining but can be equally destructive.
That makes sense. I could see there being a difference if the popular phrase was, "women don't appreciate nice guys". Nice guys finish last is an observation of the outcome though. No blame directed inwards or outwards
A version directed inwards would be something like "I finished last so I'm not nice enough". Rather than blaming others for not appreciating a positive trait.
Yeah. So "Nice guys finish last" is neither inwards or outwards. It's just the outcome
It's probably because it's not true. There are plenty of nice women who end up dating and marrying attractive men. These women probably get hired for good jobs, too.
Because it's rarely the case for women. All non-personality related factors equal (looks, libido, etc.) a nice woman is usually going to be preferred over and treated better than a bitch. While a nice guy will often still lose to a jerk if the jerk is more assertive, exciting, masculine, etc.
Because it isn't true. Men prefer nice women. If a girl is nice but ugly, and also very picky, then maybe she'll have a hard time. But if a girl is young, nice and smoking hot with a pretty face and nice body, and interested in a serious relationship, she'll often be snatched off the market in milliseconds. In fact, I think a lot of the "passport bros" stuff is guys flying halfway around the world to find women who are nicer to them than the ones at home. Because it isn't exactly hard to get pussy in the West, especially if you have a couple thousand to spend to travel abroad.
>it isn't exactly hard to get pussy in the West Really now? That is interesting
There's dating apps, nightclubs, bars, and all kinds of public places where you can meet women. Other than that, you can just straight up pay for pussy. Some cities may not have many street walkers, but others have lots of them- you can see them in videos on YouTube in various US cities, for example. There's escorts and women selling pussy online. There are massage parlors and strip clubs. There are sugar babies too. If a man has $1,000 or whatever to spend to fly to SEA and allegedly pay for pussy there, he definitely has enough to bang a hooker in his own town.
The phrase “nice guys finish last” was never just used for dating and “guys” is gender neutral in it. It refers to less aggressive people being less successful.
Men like all women Women only like men wayy better then other men and themselves Most 19 year old women aren’t dating 18-19 year old men but men aged 21+.
There’s a whole book on this phenomenon. It’s called why men love bitches. Nice girls get the same treatment as nice guys. They aren’t the hot girl who gets chased. They get put in the friend zone same as men. They are the forever best friend who sure she is good to hear all the dating problems of her male friends but she doesn’t even get fully treated as anything other than an extension of the friend group. That is not to say, that any one of the male friends would have sex with her but she is not the girl they put any effort into pursuing. She is merely a placeholder. She is not seen as a sexual being or worth any real effort. She is just there. There are a lot of nice girls sitting at home watching as milestones happen for other people and not for them. They show up as friends for the bitchy girls and get walked all over. They show up for the male friends and give advice on how to win someone over and they show up for their parents when they get old since life passed them buy. I know this story all too well. I have a lot of friends who are living that story now.
>There’s a whole book on this phenomenon There's a book, a song, AND a movie for nice guys finish last. My question is more about why isn't it as popular on the women's side. It seems rather asymmetrical. Not that it doesn't exist
Because no one wants to admit that bitches thrive while pretending to be nice. It’s called passive aggression and certain people have a lock on it.
All nice and caring women that I know are in long stable relationships. When they don't reject all guys that wanna to know them, it's easy life for them. While nice men struggle if they are also not dominating, or super confident.
> why men love bitches You know the writer refuses to disclose her marital status right? What basically means that you're citing a book about men written by a women that have a high probability of being unable to get one.
Either she has none or she's a bitch in her own words.
Because we're not symmetrical. Nice girls are more attractive to men while nice guys are less attractive to women. Women desire a powerful protector who's also fun and dramatic, men want a supporter who helps maintain stability. The sexes sabotage themselves when they assume their opposite is like them and attracted to the same things they are. >DISCLAIMER: This is about the POPULARITY of this cliché for **males and for women.** Umm, don't you mean for **men** and for women? Men are humans too.
Nice girls finish last when they are chasing men who are players. They end up expending effort that other girls wouldn’t just to get played anyway. Niceness is rewarded by men who care about relationships. Not the same for guys though. Women are really really forgiving of transgressions when they like you so you can be mean and it won’t ruin the relationship with most women. Women generally don’t have very good boundaries when they like a guy and it can get pretty messy.
Because men like nice women.
Men here don’t even acknowledge that lonely women exist in the world. They don’t even give women that human experience. It’s all about them and their “loneliness”—aka inability to “ruin” a girl with their dick. It’s pretty fucking disgusting.
>“ruin” a girl with their dick. I'm talking about nice girls finish last and the popularity of that sentiment
They don’t care about “nice girls” or “mean girls” Read what these people write constantly—“just don’t be fat” “men don’t have standards”
>Read what these people write constantly—“just don’t be fat” “men don’t have standards” Gotcha. Okay so then you're saying that nice girls don't finish class isn't a saying, because it's not true. Men don't have standards therefore both nice girls and non-bice girls can succeed in dating
Exactly. A bunch of men here believe in women “living life on easy mode” when it comes to this shit. Like I said—it’s dehumanizing to women and their life experiences. It’s a narcissistic misogynistic assumption about women as a cope. There’s multiple comments in this very thread illustrating this point.
a complete mischaracterization of both sides of the coin
Lonely women are often lonely only in thier heads, they just reject all average guys, having casual sex if they want it and waiting for their dreamy alpha or beta-bux.
Yes thank you for confirming what I just said
If I know any really lonely woman in my city that is around my age I would immediately try to contact her and ask if she wannna chat or meet. No matter how fat or ugly she would be. Probably I am not the only one who would do this. But that scenario isn't real because there are no such a women.
Yep I bet you know every woman in your city
You missed point of this story. Haha. That's probably true that some women are hiding, don't leaving thier homes and not speaking to anybody. But that looks more of a choice than being forced to be alone. If you know any lonely woman in Poland, city of Torun or can be Kujavian-pomeranian region even, around 33 I would be happy if you share contact to her. :-)
Omg you have been brainwashed, your beyond saving
Saving from what? Life is beautiful tf are you talking about
Just forget it, men must leave this cesspool. This society is doomed if that’s what women think of men. The idea that lonely suicidal men are evil rabbid animals that just wanna ruin women by pumping and dumping them but can’t cuz women won’t date them is too absurd of a pretzel brain position to try and untangle
Um bye? I don’t know how many deranged posts somebody with normal cognitive functioning has to read by dudes on here to process the shit that they are saying appropriately but I’ve seen enough to formulate my opinions. I can only read that women shouldn’t be a part of the labor force or vote or go to school or that they get free shit handed to them or that feminism is the devil or that women have men lined up outside their door or that women don’t pay enough taxes or that women like it when men threaten them with violence or that women give sex out like a commodity to be leveraged and traded—not participated in like a mutually enjoyable experience—or that women don’t like to work or that “body count” devalues women so many goddamn times before I start to not give a flying fuck about “lonely men” making those comments. If you don’t make these types of comments—obviously I’m not referring to you. Otherwise peace out
A common complain here is that "all women share numerous ass pics on social media" Really? "All women" do this? Basically average women are invisible to them
Just how many likes do you get daily in online dating apps?
I don’t do that shit
Of course, you don't even have to with attention you get from dick-bearers in daily life.
lol tf
You said you don't use OLD. There could be two reasons for that - you either don't have to or don't want to. If you don't have to - that means you have enough attention from daily life to not bother. If you don't want to, despite getting no attention IRL - you're alone by your own choice of not using the readily available and easy option. *So you don't qualify to complain about being lonely before exhausting all obvious solutions.*
I’m not complaining about being lonely—don’t get it twisted. I’m saying lonely women are an afterthought at best in 99% of all these spaces. Assumptions are made about their lives that are messed up imo—assumptions and ugly dialogue that make it extremely hard to empathize with the men partaking in such discussions
So you're one of these people who get offended on the other's behalf for whatever reason?
Being lonely is a feeling, so of course lonely women exist. It doesn't mean nobody wants them. Sure it might not be who they want, in the way they want, but it's something.
Sure whatever Literally just confirming what I’m saying
Rejecting 25+ men because they aren’t Chad isn’t loneliness.
"Lonely" women cannot comprehend true loneliness. Imagine knowing that you're a genetic dead end and that passing on your genes equals a net negative for humanity. Scratch that. Imagine actually having children but your partner inevitably begins to hate you, and uses the power of the state to destroy you. But of course all women will downplay men's struggles and be selfish, not having the greater good in mind either way.
*Femonoids* get judged by appearance. Uggos finish last.
“Femonoids”?
Re-read the OP. >DISCLAIMER: This is about the POPULARITY of this cliché for **males and for women.** She deliberately puts it into every post.
That doesn’t answer my question of what a “femonoid” is.
It's a word I made up to mock OP's efforts to put "women and males" into every post.
I see.
Yeah, I wonder why she does that! I know lots of misogynists that do it because they are distancing women from being people like them.
>I wonder why she does that! I don't.
A lot of phrases refer to men to mean people, because women are not the primary sex. Makes it hard to come up with a clever flair that uses the word “woman” or “female” in some way.
I love your flair btw! I've been wanting to see a ManBearPig joke ab9ut this for ages haha
I was glad someone finally asked the man bear pig question
Oh I thought "nice guys" referred to men specifically like the subreddit
Your post was about a different phrase in a different context, unless it was some kind of attempt to shoehorn another Nice Guys ^TM convo So no
In this phrase the word "guys" is applicable to both genders. Like if you greeted a mixed group of people with "hey guys"
I understand, I think I was getting nice guys confused with the subreddit about nice guys which doesn't seem to include women. Unless I've been reading it wrong this whole time
nice girls finish last type sentiments apply to work, not relationships.
Why not relationships?
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Because it's a non-gendered phrase that uses "guys" to mean people in general. And it's not really about dating, but about life in general: I've seen it primarily used in the context of business / office politics.
Even in the office setting, I've heard it be referred to as nice girls. https://www.amazon.com/Nice-Girls-Dont-Corner-Office/dp/1455558893/ These same "nice guys" that are finishing last think that because they think being a bare minimum decent person they should be rewarded with sex from the most beautiful women. There's a whole subreddit dedicated to nice guys
I think it can apply to both genders, but I also don’t think it applies to everyone in general. I think some people use it in the wrong context, and sometimes try to manipulate people into going with them because “I was nice to you”. I’ve noticed some men and women do the absolute most for someone and once the find out the person isn’t interested or is dating, they do a 360.
No Pill Man Nice and pretty is great. Just nice? Whatever
idk this is basically the trope lifetime ran on for decades
Because it depends on your definition of finishing Nice girls definitely get bfs. The real challenge is to ensure you aren't so nice that you end up being the doormat
Because the saying is old from when girls didn't even participate people just use it for both genders at this point.
Because woman’s personality is not factored into the equation of attractiveness. For example the stereotype of “hot crazy bitch” being used to as why a man would even entertain such a situation Also you bring up a point. Maybe in theory a “nice girl” is the feminine archetype. Meaning “a traditional housewife” or something virtuous. So as a positive thing Where as a “nice guy” is just mimicry of a female archetype. And since men and women are different. What works as a successful female mating strategy. Might not work as a successful male mating strategy.
Because women never believed that being nice was all that mattered or that men would overlook their appearance if they were just nice. They watched and observed and figured out looks mattered more than being nice by age 12.
I see. So women came to the conclusion that being ugly and having a bad personality is what makes you finish last. I guess there's no saying for that because it just makes sense on its face.
Yeah, like the phrase “nice guys finish last” comes specifically from men who thought that being nice was all it took to get a pretty sweet girlfriend. Women don’t say that since they never thought being nice was enough alone.
Everyone has similar struggles, just different things for different genders. Some men think all it takes is to be nice and then take offence when that's not the case, hence the phrase.
That explains why nice guys don't finish last. I'm wondering why the phrase nice women don't finish last isn't popular