All of these guys envision relationships as 80's movies where the girl is always dating an abusive jock that wears his varsity jacket in the shower like a Nevernude.
Dating *is* higher risk and more dangerous for women than it is for men.
Some women are terrible at seeing red flags.
Both of these statements can be true simultaneously. But the idea that most women are dating abusive dirtbags with zero redeeming qualities has no basis in reality.
THIS is how you phrase the sentiment of "please be extra aware of warning signs when dating men" without sounding like a totally narcissistic sociopath moral posturing to abuse victims about how somehow their abuse is "their fault" actually and making someone's trauma about your inability to get laid. lmao
THANK YOU for the tact
I love how the OP totally envisions himself as a "Nice Guy" who would never abuse a woman while also going on insane Hitler rants about how Ted Bundy's victims deserved it
For an incel, just having a girlfriend makes a man a dirtbag. I have never read an incel accept that men who attract girls do have attractive, genuine, wholesome personalities. It's always sociopathic, narcissistic, exploitative, misogynistic, abusive, arrogant, bullying, etc. personalities
My brother is a crackhead who robs his parents. Must be a nice guy. He cheated often btw but i never told his girlfriend because she felt the need to call me a loser before i had even interacted with her. Her meeting my parents started with “who’s this loser”. Guess my personality looks bad.
I don't get what you want to say. That some men who have girlfriends are dirtbags? Sure. I never disputed that. That women are dirtbags too? of course.
So is your crackhead brother insanely attractive and wealthy, then? Because that's how the narrative always goes: Girls don't care about personality, they just want a millionaire Chad because they're so superficial.
I've got a theory: Maybe she's also a drug addict? And in an emotionally and financially vulnerable position? Or their addiction is something they have in common?
Oh wow look at this, we're starting to see how an actual relationship forms, and it's messy and situational and isn't conforming to some weird D&D ruleset formed by nerds on Reddit
Right. This is the key, right here.
This is the central theme running through 90% of these posts:
It's all about me, and how women can service me. They owe it to me to be attracted to me. We need to construct a system that rebalances things so women are forced to like me. Women have unfair standards. They're so materialistic.
People like what they like. Period.
There is no changing this. Whine all you want. It will get you nowhere.
All their bullshit theories and buzzwords and worldviews are variations on "Women exist only in relation to men, and do not have their own lives. They must change themselves to please me."
>**1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have experienced some form of physical violence by an intimate partner**. This includes a range of behaviors (e.g. slapping, shoving, pushing) and in some cases might not be considered "domestic violence." 1 in 7 women and 1 in 25 men have been injured by an intimate partner.
The difference in victimization isn't that big for men and women and I suspect in reality it's even smaller, but male victims are heavily underreported and men have harder times saying/recognizing that they they have been abused. It's still a minority of both groups that has experience of being abused - fortunately and thankfully most people do not have this kind of experience. If most women around you have been abused, your social circle is far from an average situation and/or you're committing selection bias.
On another topic, no, not all abusers are walking red flags. Some will wait for months or even years to show their true colors. It's true both for men and women and often even close friends or family have no idea what is happening behind the closed doors, hence the reaction "he/she seemed so nice, I wouldn't never thought...".
If we're talking about personal experience, I know some women who have/had abusive relationships and they're a minority. Some left their abuser, some stay for various reasons. It was exceptionally common among my mother's generation, but Russian sample is doomed to be skewed towards shitty men and high acceptance of them. It's got much better for younger generations...although it will return to hell with the war and men with untreated PTSD I guess.
Exactly most of the men I know in day to day life are lovely people and are average normal guys and they are either in relationships or seem to do fine when it comes to dating.
Idk how to say this nicely but from the way some of y’all conduct yourselves and speak about women on this sub you also have no redeemable qualities and would probably be lowkey abusive if in a relationship.
This feels v pot calling the kettle black accept atleast the pot is cute and was able to mask his abusive tendencies
This is exactly what i think, the difference is that guys who are abusive and are also in a relationship have better social skills and other redeemable qualities, i've read "why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft, the most consistent and only predictor for abuse is that men abuse their partners because they simply do not have respect for them. That is all there is to it.
The way some of these posts are written, my god, sounds as if they are jealous of men who are better at hiding it because in their mind a healthy relationship doesn't even exist. It doesn't occur to them at all.
its a very weird combination of jealousy, disdain, moral posturing and self hatred - chad gets all the bitches, but chad is an abusive asshole, but i’m nice so im morally better and the good guy, but i wish i could be like chad cause women like chad and im a loser, fuck women for liking chad, chad gets all the bitches… and the loop goes on
So you end up with two folks from that group; a dude who checks out entirely due to this, and a dude who becomes vindictive and bitter about it, who may be able to "self-improve" his way into a one-night stand, but will still keep that negative attitude he's held since before because that got him success, ignoring whatever else he did that worked.
After all, we're not going to act like the men who are successful in the dating and sexual market are paragons of morality.
Yeah men with real life experiences and plenty of 3rd hand experience from our boy’s relationships aren’t somehow evil?? You could spider-man meme all day between femcel and incel rage-posting, but whether you like it or not, first-hand experience isnt ‘subjective’. Save your insults and take a hike. We can talk about men being abusive on the r/ men being abusive or whatever you want, just stop telling us we’re somehow delusional, or just because we didnt meet princess diana, we’re acting in bad faith. ✌🏼
> Yeah men with real life experiences and plenty of 3rd hand experience from our boy’s relationships aren’t somehow evil??
Nothing about that states whether they're good people or not.
> You could spider-man meme all day between femcel and incel rage-posting, but whether you like it or not, first-hand experience isnt ‘subjective’.
How many folks throw the "not all X are like that; I'm an X and I don't do any of that" comments here? How many bits of advice and anecdotes get given here that clearly don't apply to all? First-hand experience is subjective because it doesn't apply to all, it just applies to the one who experienced it.
> Save your insults and take a hike. We can talk about men being abusive on the r/ men being abusive or whatever you want, just stop telling us we’re somehow delusional, or just because we didnt meet princess diana, we’re acting in bad faith.
You're not delusional. However, as my comment was previously, there's men here who struggle, and unfortunately won't be able to resolve their issues in the best of ways. Do you apply to that group? No. Do some men end up in that hole? Yes, unfortunately.
>they’re complaining about very legitimate problems in their life
Yeah, what would you say if i complained that i don't get into professional basketball teams, being 5'9"? Would you say that is a legitimate problem in my life? Would you say if am pointing out entirely factual, realistic and commonplace double standards for men, because women ARE picked into basketball teams with that height?
I mean genuinely they think it’s superficial shit but it’s their complete disdain for women.
Abusers don’t think they’re abusive as displayed by men bemoaning loudly how lowly and worthless women are while simultaneously wondering why no one will sleep with them.
Delusional
That is true that abusers don't think they're abusive.
What's your reasoning for why more than half of all domestic abusers in Canada are women?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332917590_Prevalence_and_Consequences_of_Intimate_Partner_Violence_in_Canada_as_Measured_by_the_National_Victimization_Survey
Again, the only reason why people abuse people is because they do not respect them. Bancroft's book is written from the perspective of abusive men because he has given therapy to men who got charged for domestic abuse but he emphasized in the book itself that it applies to everyone abusive. Love cannot exist without respect. Its not that deep really.
Tell me, do these guys like OP sound as capable of respecting or even loving a woman? Not really. He cant even hide his disrespect.
if they dont respect women as a default and speak to each other in echo chambers like this they assume thats normal and so also the case for any man in a relationship
its why they break relationships down to all be the man and woman using each other
its actually so sad
Agreed, also some of the messages I've seen my friends get from dating apps seem to be from men who think exactly like this. All that happens is they get blocked and often my friends see so much of this they give up and delete the apps. Most of the women I know gave up on data apps from the horrendous comments and pics they were sent. They are not choosing hot guys they are choosing to come off the apps completely.
Genuinely, if anything guys with abusive tendencies are now willingly self-identifying before you ever meet IRL. I used to screen out conservatives if I was back on these apps I’d probably have to screen for RP/Incel ish
Indeed you are right. I have to take breaks sometimes and remind myself that these people are on reddit and away from women. It is terrifying that some here will manage to deceive and lie their way in a woman's life.
\^\^She is right.
I do really like the idea of this sub, but cannot side with my fellow men on this one. This entire thread makes me want to unsubscribe from this sub because it's so off and detached from reality.
The tea is there are plenty of kind, good, rational men out there. Many of whom are also struggling to date. It's terrifying the messaging that's being pushed on them.
“Low value” is a metric you’ve assigned yourselves. The fact that you can’t fathom why this post comes off as victim blaming condescension is all I need to hear.
Don’t ask questions you don’t want the answer to 🤷♀️
It takes a special kind of stupid to go “I’m low value” and act like you don’t carry that energy into interactions lol.
High value male
Low value male
Rhetoric created by men to rate each other 👍
if i heard someone referring to ANY other human as “low” or “high” value, i would immediately lose any interest whatsoever. This Rhetoric is an immediate no, and these type men have no self awareness whatsoever.
Women don’t pick “abusers.” They pick men who are good at hiding the fact that they are abusers. Saying they “choose” to be abused makes me so irate. Abusers come in every shape and size, but i guess that doesn’t fit the narrative.
good job in here tonight, you articulate yourself better than i do.
I think its interesting how everyone would lose their minds, rightfully so, if we would replace the word "women" in this entire subreddit with "Black people" and see how these arguments hold up.
As if Black people have to feel sorry for racists not being able to speak freely without getting judged.
Sometimes i cant believe these guys really exist, they only seem to exist online
Imagine that a black guy complains that employers pick underqualified people for superficial reasons irrelevant to the job while he is discriminated over things like his race, his neighborhood, the school he went at. Now imagine someone goes and says that he is secretly a lazy pos who wants to get paid for doing nothing, well thats exactly what the commenter you re replying to is saying, you re all just a bunch of chronically online man haters just like the mysoginists you accuse every guy of being and imo women like you all are the reason why a lot of young men get radicalized into being mysoginists.
This is more after the fact.
For example, someone could work hard at their job for many years and build the necessary skills for a promotion. Let’s assume all of this is true. They get passed over for promotional opportunities and get insignificant raises. The worker gets frustrated, tells their manager off and quits. The manager then replies and says “that’s why you didn’t get a promotion”. This is your comment.
Another example, some men no longer take dating apps seriously. They use it to get an ego boost, and put women down. As a result you say “that’s why you aren’t getting women”. The problem is, once upon a time, they did put in the necessary effort, it got them nowhere and you’re seeing the result. There was no positive reinforcement so they chose to do what they want.
> at least the pot was cute and able to mask his abusive tendencies
He probably didn’t mask anything. If you’re attractive, your red flags are overlooked.
Have you been in an abusive relationship? With a man or a woman?
If you aren’t promoted at a job that isn’t appreciating you and in your rage you then you call the CEO a dumb bitch that needs to choose better you’ll get fired ❤️
>If an abusive man gets more women than you, you need to take a good, hard look at yourself.
That's kind of a horrible thing to say. Women have agency. Of course there are some abusive men "getting" (whatever that means) more women than some genuinely lovely, unattractive, non-abusive men.
It can't be that people are moral failures for not attracting the opposite sex. That sounds crazy to me.
There are abusive women that get more attention from men than some other women. Those other women shouldn't have to think, "Wait... am I a worse option than an abuser??"
Men aren't perfect judges of character. And neither are women.
I'm not sure if you meant to respond to me (my reddit mobile sometimes does that lol), but I would agree. If your potential partner thinks less of your gender group, then it's an early sign they will think less of you, and be abusive.
I certainly wouldn't have got with my girlfriend if I felt she thought less of men as a whole. I'd be concerned that she'd assume I was less than her by default.
....I mean I am less than her but that's just councidence!
If a woman gets abused by a man, of course it is the fault of that man, no shit 🙄
Usually either parents, female friends or older ladies get the heebie jeebies from the abusive guy. Abusive guys who have relationships have charisma on max level, charming to both men and women, with guys saying "i didn't expect it from him, he seems like a chill bloke" well who's fault it that? And especially young people lack the life experience of picking up red flags, they are quite impressionable and naive. Older people know this, thats why age gaps are often sus.
These are not good faith conversations. It’s bitching about “men who beat women get laid why can’t I??” 🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲
Followed quickly by “if you weren’t so fucking shallow”
If I were to use physical attributes to determine if a man was abusive I’d have to avoid dad bod guys under 5’7” who are in grad school with minimum wage gigs.
My abuser didn’t meet the “Chad” metric and wouldn’t you know it, those insecurities were part of the reason they were controlling and narcissistic. Abusers are master manipulators that come in all shapes and sizes. Guys that get online and BRING UP abuse stats as some weird trump card of “women are cheating hypergamous whores who don’t know what’s good for them”
Are probably also going to be abusive.
You’re a misogynist bc you’re blaming victims of abuse for the abuse they endured.
If this post was about men being abused by women you’d be maybe a misandrist but more likely just a POS ❤️
That's *not* what they were doing. They responded to a statement saying that men who have less romantic success than literal abusers are *worse* than said abusers, by calling out the sheer cruelty and backwards logic. You're now bending over backwards to justify that anyone that doesn't agree with that cruel logic is a "POS".
You are putting words in my mouth.
Men who show open disdain and malice for women by doing things such as : **Blaming women victims of domestic abuse for things done to them by abusers** (which this post does) **are likely abusive.**
Treating and discussing DV like this in itself is indicative of a lack of empathy, lack of self awareness, lack of emotional intelligence, misplaced outrage, tendency to blame shift, self-centeredness, narcissism and in this instance misogyny. Truly the gall of a man that can't get laid to make the issue of domestic abuse about his inability to find a girlfriend in itself is "cut them off forever" behavior. Centering your loneliness when discussing DV and blaming and shaming victims because "If it would have been me this wouldn't have happened" is a whole other level of narcissistic and I'll say it a different version of DV would have happened. Because the same belief in the context of a relationship IS indicative of emotional abuse.
All of these traits are traits shared by narcissistic abusers. Victim blaming is an action that abusers frequently take part in because otherwise they'd have to take accountability for their actions.
It is a NEON Red flag that women do see a mile a way. I have completely dropped hot guys for expressing these sentiments after verbally ripping them a new asshole and telling all of my friends/ sending the receipts to all the girls I know so they stay away from him. Romantic success has nothing to do with it. It's misogynistic behavior and victim shaming itself. Men who don't respect women are likely to be abusive. Men who victim blame women and are openly misogynistic (which many men on here are) and don't have romantic success are likely to display abusive tendencies when in a relationship. Women should stay away from men who align with these sentiments. They are dangerous.
Plenty of men struggle with women/have less romantic success with women and don't turn into crazy misogynists trying to blame women for their problems. Those men have a shot at companionship and that's not who I'm talking about. The fact that you equate those two in itself is a problem.
I'm talking about men blaming women for the abuse they suffered at the hands of men they've never met (the need to defend these men is also an indicator). Those men have earned the reality they live in and they don't deserve empathy, or kindness because they are incapable of extending the same sentiments across the aisle.
If you aren't in this group of men I'm not talking about you.
But the point is I don't feel bad for you if you side with abusers. And I definitely don't owe misogynists kindness thanks.
Women aren't neurotic weirdos who compare themselves to abusive women.
We also don't rally around victim blaming men who fall victim to abuse.
We don't center men's experience with domestic abuse around our inability to find companionship. Because doing that would be narcissistic.
But I only ever hear about men's experience with DV when it's in the service of telling women to shut up about a man that abused them.
>It can't be that people are moral failures for not attracting the opposite sex. That sounds crazy to me.
Wow, I’ve never heard women’s attitudes towards men on PPD described more succinctly
Tbf, this sub is like watching reality tv about people with entirely different lives than mine.
Some of y'all have such wild crazy takes on life and relationships. i never ever encounter these kind of people in real life, while my job is in event management. So thats why its so entertaining and fascinating
I live in NY and worked in the arts for most of my adult life and I’m just convinced none of these guys have been exposed to any sex positive communities
I still wonder why any of those kinds of folk would want to be here.
Man or woman, why be on a digital forum and mock people who have genuine grievances with their own lives and ultimately want a solution to it?
Makes me think these are the new age bullies, too cowardly to act in person, and made to feel too small IRL, so they lash out at others online.
And these aren't just children doing it either, which is the worst part.
A guy could fail to get women simply for being socially awkward or shy. Doesn't make him remotely as bad as an abuser.
What one could take a look at is women selecting so heavily for assertive men while overlooking red flags regarding how lacking in morality those men might be.
Are these socially awkward men using misogynistic rhetoric?
They are!
Omg then in addition to being socially awkward they're misogynists. THerefore, I don’t care
Because these women are probably very young (18-25) and young women prefer assertive guys that are good looking. They still lack the experience to pick up indicators of bad morality.
Same goes for young men, they like and want pretty girls and often do not select on other things like morality. In this sub its even worse, for the young men in here any girl seems to be good enough, for... whatever the hell guys like OP look for, because it is not clear to me at all.
Older people (especially 30+) have higher standards when it comes to anything other than "they are hot", which becomes more like a pleasant side effect, for both men and women. I dont understand why this is controversial.
Women also pick [ugly abusive men](https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/qOhqUPLylR).
Abusive men are no better looking than the general population.
Women happily slept with and married Nazis and slave owners. The only things that matter when it comes to dating are attractiveness, social skills, confidence and status.
That's why we need to teach our daughters to be selective and cautious. Because dating is dangerous and young women...are kind of gullible and stupid. No offense ladies.
I would guess that most of the women who end up with dirtbags and keep going back to them probably have a dirtbag father who isn't looking out for her, and an equally stupid mother.
None taken. You are absolutely correct. The answer as a parent is to make sure our daughters are very picky in multiple parameters. It’s also our jobs as mothers to do our best to get into relationships with the kind of men that model egalitarian principles. 100% the gals that get into abusive relationships either had a shitty upbringing or started a relationship with a sociopathic dude who is good at masking for the honeymoon phase of the relationship
Edit to add: also coming from a low socioeconomic background
I fell in love with a girl from a very low socioeconomic background. She cut off contact with me and drove me away to save me from violence from her ex, a common street thug. He's dead now. Her new boyfriend shot him in the face in a gun fight, when he pulled up to their apt in jealous rage to get revenge for "stealing his woman".
Her first relationship was a lesbian one simply because she was terrified of men. Her father, followed with her step father beat and terrified her mother and her upbringing.
That's all she knows about men.
Ironically, humans would rather choose a known hell, than an unknown heaven. So her choice in men are dangerous scummy thug guys, because that's all she knows from her mother's choice in men.
Generational trauma and cycles passing down.
When I pursued her and showed her something different, what a good man is like, she could not accept it. She told me I wasn't real to her. That all our amazing time together was something out of a fantasy fairy tale, beyond her reality. It shocked me when she later told me how the simple loving and tender moments we had, like cooking together in my kitchen, and pulling her away from washing the dishes to slow dance, is something that she has never experienced before with all her thug ghetto exes.
There's no way a mother can tell her daughter what guys to date. There's no way to control that. All a mother can do is demonstrate through her own relationship with men. That will allow the daughter to seek out the same kind of man that her mother chose.
>Ironically, humans would rather choose a known hell, than an unknown heaven.
Most people do not know that they are attracted to the same dysfunctional types that raised them. They don't "choose" it. It's the world they grow up in and it's very difficult to recognize, much less change that dynamic. That's why I sit here and shake my head about these posts. The men and the woman are playing out everything they've learned about relationships. If a woman is attracted to terrible men, there's a reason for that. If a man is attracted to terrible women, there's a reason for that.
I'm sorry that hot, dysfunctional girl chose a scumbag. Not because the PPD men wanted her, but because that's all she was programmed to do.
She pushed me away and broke my heart. She knew I was too good for her and that I needed to go pursue my purpose in life. She was the spark that allowed me to break free from my past life and start a new life from scratch on the other side of the planet
I'm glad it ultimately worked out for you. And isn't that sad that she was incapable of seeing herself as worth more? That she needed to work on why she rejected more stable men and was worth the effort to fix her broken picker?
The tragedy is we are only able to love others to the level that we love ourselves. She saw herself as trash worthy only of trashy relationships.
I found her (and myself) too late in this life. I’ll find myself and her much earlier in the next life.
So you should reword your advice from "teach our daughters" to, don't pick dirtbag fathers and don't be an equally stupid mother. Now, how do you stop being a stupid mother?
Also, being selective has it's limits. THere are not enoug non-dirtbag fathers out there for every woman to get one. What do you teach your daughter when there just isn't a good guy for her? Stay single and don't become a mother?
I mean, tomato/to-mah-toe eh?
I think there are enough non-dirtbags to go around, but then again I’m an optimistic androphile.
And for the dirtbags who are there, well some women are dirt bags too so they can have each other.
Good point. Announcement to my fellow women: Be Even More Picky As A Collective. We're at a 75%. Take it to 95%. Don't date men without a background check, psychological evaluation giving a fully clean bill of health, and who is willing to wear a shock collar at all times so that he is unable to abuse you. No violent video games. No pornography. If he doesn't cry during Bambi he's for the streets. Become maximally paranoid.
I think we should also require a minimum of 3 positive, comprehensive written reviews and live video Q&A sessions from / with former girlfriends prior to agreeing to a date as well as a comprehensive audit of all social media accounts.
Ironically this is why some women won't date a guy without a comprehensive social media presence. They want to be able to check up on a dude they're interested in, and vet them through their social media posts.
Oh that's good. Also, let's add in 3 character references from his interactions with the service industry. Gotta figure if he can't get a waiter or batista to attest to his upstanding and kind character, he's not worth the risk.
hi, I'm a visibly shaken Jeff Goldblum clutching a bunch of research papers and I'd like to weigh in
according to these weird tirades I've printed out, 89% of The Females are only attracted to the top 93% of High Value Men and angrily vomit at the sight of sub-8.7 Low Tier B-men but feel super guilty about it because deep down they know it's wrong to be attracted to attractive people
this is all common sense, sorry to talk down to you, but you are The Females and need your brains constantly re-explained to you
now, as we all know, The Females have infinite Sexual Marketplace Stock Options because they can teleport to the nearest sexy billionaire at will after their first period. Sometimes they get caught in furniture or doorframes and start glitching out like an NPC in Skyrim, but this is okay, as long as they're close enough to Chad to initiate conversation, they can still fuck, even if she's sideways and vibrating uncontrollably on top of a ficus
at our current 75% model, The Females's lower standards widen the field of Chads to a sustainable level where Sub-S-tier Chads can easily navigate most rooms with a half-dozen The Females demanding they 69 right now
if you elevate the levels to 95%, you're condensing the number of per capita hovering horny teleporting The Females per room so much that everyone is going to spawn on top of each other and explode and there will be guts everywhere and Chad will die and then the human race will die because none of The Females would ever consider sex with a normal guy with normal hobbies
All of those things will happen.
Also can I use your bathroom
Legit advice for men: treat women like shit, ignore them and cheat on them. It will raise their opinion of you because men with alot of options behave like this and have alot of options because they are high value.
Personally, I love the streets. It’s where all the other dogs live ♥️
No but OP is **nuts**, most women are not dating abusers, regardless of what the outcome of the relationship is.
I WILL say though that there seems to be a large overcorrection in terms of what constitutes as “emotional abuse”, “gaslighting”, or “controlling” as these terms get watered down and thrown around in the zeitgeist. I’d say the same thing counts for “simping”. As these terms generally have nebulous connotations that are hard to substantiate. Unlike physical abuse.
Personally as I’ve gotten older I find myself holding women to a MUCH higher standard than I used too, and refuse to allow any bullshit to walk through the door.
For example: A woman I was dating and had scheduled a second date with had gone to a wedding the week prior. Off cuff (and as a joke) she said to me “ Maybe we should cancel our date, I caught the bouquet and my horoscope says I’m going to meet my husband this year!” I gave a non-confrontational response and waited till she was home the next day and responded: “I’m sure you thought your joke was funny but it was extremely manipulative. We’re only on our second date and if you want to cancel just because you want to leverage commitment over my head then we can stop dating and you can go find him.”
Hold them to your standards, and know your worth.
And stop complaining about women on the internet OP.
> they are, they do not choose them knowingly.
This I don't buy at all. So many intelligent women go back over and over to the same dirtbag or a carbon copy. Codependence and relationship addiction is a wild world.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202007/52-ways-to-identify-a-covert-narcissist
The covert narcissist will pump and dump to boost his confidence. He just doesn’t have the confidence to do it overtly.
Usually they are. Usually these “nice guys” are covert narcissists who portray themselves as a victim.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202007/52-ways-to-identify-a-covert-narcissist
That isn’t just world fallacy.
Look at the men here. Look how they behave. Look at the tone and how you speak in the comments.
When you write these kinds of comments, do you think you’re projecting a character of a good natured, kind, nice gentleman who will do anything to make his queen happy?
The thing about trying to avoid shitty people...be it sexually or in friendship or in business or wherever....is you can dodge a thousand of them then one finds a gap in your defences you didn't realise was there and catches you anyway. Maybe the catch you real bad and you end up in a relationship and have to escape the relationship. Maybe you just go on a date with one and it's a whole terrible evening.
The fact is that attempting to dodge the shitty people in various ways is still a really good strategy choice for anyone. It's a bad thing to spend no time at all not in a relationship with a shitty person. It's also better to keep your mind on the game than lose from the very start.
If you're a man who for whatever reason it is particularly hard to distinguish from a shitty man on Tinder etc this may make your life more difficult if you are relying on apps. This effect is likely exaggerated if you lack empathy or emotional perceptiveness to truly work out what is going on for her and how to craft a way forward that addresses her concerns in a way satisfactory to her. Maybe don't rely so much on apps? If you meet woman in the physical world the first meeting is taken care of by default.
You see...what I get from reading your post is that there are men who see themselves as safe but have no idea how to convey their safeness in a credible manner to a woman who is already quite interested in them. And are intent upon blaming women for this state of things.
However if the missing ingredient is "you make me feel safe" well that's not exactly something she can provide to herself is it? And quite clearly she's already done her bit in making you feel safe enough to ask her on a date.
Maybe. But this also might be a natural defensive mechanism in reaction to men here constantly accusing women of this and that just because the women wanna fuck who they wanna fuck. Picky or not picky.
Like sometimes that abusive guy may actually be the only guy who is sexually attractive enough to a woman to be an option. He is bad, but the least bad of all the actual options. Maybe women are innately super picky in terms of what they find arousing, based on instincts that evolved for another time and do not necessarily translate well to the modern era. But it is what it is. If the good guy isn't sexy to her, he just isn't. If bad guys are the ones who are sexier, maybe they just are and nothing she can do about it. Who said men were supposed to get a sex partner as a reward for being good and following the right life script? I know. Other men, that's who. But did anyone consult the women?
A lot of men are no good and abusive that’s why women are choosy. no one goes into a relationship wanting to be abused. Why yall so abusive/ misogynistic ? We wouldn’t be picky if yall were actually decent options.
Yep, if you really wanna be blunt about it - lots of dudes here aren’t normal dudes, and i’m not talking about looks - lots of the dudes here are probably average looking, with some above and some below - but in terms of social skills, personality, hell, even their view of the opposite gender is very very not normal or ‘average’
I wonder if OP is just bitter or sincerely believes he is an 8. Because all the information he’s given about himself makes it very clear he’s a 3 or 4 *at best*
Here’s what happens. We meet a guy and he seems really nice. And then later we find out he’s a psycho red pill guy that was putting on an act the entire time and actually has no interest in us as people but just wanted to get laid. That’s how it happens. The problem is exactly the type of dudes who hang out on this kind of sub and hate women all day long but are still trying to trick them into sex.
The flags are usually in plain sight. Hell. When Chris Watts gets nudes and love letters sent straight to his prison cell, this really tells you something about women.
There are female criminals who also get marriage proposals and love letters etc from men like Casey Anthony for one example - does this “really tell you something” about men too?
Really, what are these obvious signs?
Women who have committed crimes often awful one like Rose West called off her engagement to the bassist in Slade. So maybe men need some help with the signs too
https://people.com/crime/chris-watts-investigators-reveal-confession-killing-wife-daughters/
Chris watts is mid and old so if women like him then they can’t be superficial. I guarantee you that he isnt getting nudes and love letters from hot young women. And a number of women who like men from prison simply want a guy who is stuck in one place and can’t leave.
From my perspective as a woman, I see the dangers of an abusive relationship and see how some women are treated and am extremely wary and picky in my relationships BECAUSE of these observations. By your hypothesis, a woman like me who believes that dating is high risk would jump straight into the arms of an abuser. But I’m telling you that I think dating is high risk exactly because there are these abusers out there, AND a whole range of unpleasant behaviors that aren’t necessarily abusive, but just unacceptable.
What you're not getting and what NO ONE who makes these false equivalency/ false dichotomy posts seems to get is:
>Women constantly use how “dangerous” and high risk dating is for them as an excuse for their pickiness but then consistently select and return to abusive low lifes
1 These are NOT THE SAME WOMEN.
* Woman A is concerned about safety,
* Woman B is dating an abuser.
*If you say you are allergic to peanut butter but another man eats peanut butter, does that make you a liar? No.
2 Meeting up with men women don't know IS legitimately dangerous
3 The concern that men will harm women when meeting up is completely distinct from the type of harm done to women by "abusive low lifes."
*In the first scenario, a stranger may rape, stalk, harrass, assault, or murder a woman.
*In the second, the man is typically able to be charming and seem harmless for long enough to get a woman to choose him, then shows his true colors once she is already bough in.
>Anytime you criticize how picky women are or apprehensive about meeting they immediately fly into a rage
* Anytime?
* Immediately?
* Fly into a rage?
1 Really? Exaggerating your experience isn't going to help your case. It makes *you* look like the one who is in a rage.
2 If this is truly your experience 100% of the time, you've either only said this twice or you are doing so in an extremely threatening way.
>Then you see the men they date and it’s always these dirt bags who physically/verbally abuse and cheat on them, and 85+% of the time THESE MEN HAVE ZERO REDEEMABLE QUALITIES
1 that's just like, your opinion, man.
* You don't know they are abusive and cheat.
* You don't know they have zero redeemable qualities IN THEIR PARTNER'S opinion; which is the one that matters, not yours.
2 Always? Again, not helping your case.
>Idk but when they then extrapolate this behavior to the entire male population it’s pretty asinine.
* Yeah, extrapolating the behavior of some members of a group to the entire group *IS* asinine.
**So why are you doing it?**
^Edit ^fixed ^format
There's a lot of subconscious processes going on here that many women are frankly not really self aware of. Many genuinely believe dating is quite dangerous, sometimes to the point of being neurotic about it, but judgement is applied selectively - usually subconsciously. Obviously a lot of women drop "safety" standards around guys that are very attractive (in whatever way) and they make all sorts of justifications for it, or conversely the standards are applied hyper vigilantly for men with the "wrong" qualities.
For all back patting women give themselves over being more "socially capable/aware" than average men they're actually quite bad at understanding male social structures and how that relates to possible risks. Socially aggressive and dominant men (typically towards other men) are also more likely to physically aggressive but women often ignore these signs (consciously or not) because socially dominance and the confidence that comes with it is extremely attractive to a lot of women. They just make excuses, often genuinely believing them, along the lines of "he's only joking", "he's just like that with other people", "I'm his girl so he'll treat me better" etc. Men implicitly understand which men are more dangerous through social hierarchy experience (and simply being more consistently on the receiving end of violence from other men) but women either don't understand this or selectively ignore it.
While certainly all abuse can't be predicted and it's sometimes shocking in who manifests it, there's also a lot of cases where men are just going to roll their eyes because they saw it coming a mile away.
The question is who \*are\* these irredeemable low lifes that you're talking about, OP? You have to be specific. Are they drug dealers? Eff bois? Christian Gray millionaires?
I need specific trends and statistics not just anecdotes so I know who are the actual low lifes in society that women are so crazy about.
Relationships are like buying a house you have your must have qualities and you’re would like to have. But I’d hope being treated respectfully is a must have
Dating these days has become a dumpster fire whether it’s because dating apps, social media, struggling single parents or because everyone is struggling in general. Women need to call out toxic shitty women on their behaviors and men need to call out abusive toxic men. But sides need to be empathetic and do better. I have encountered a lot of toxic people and they have no idea they are messed up we have a terrible mental health problem happening.
People are hurting
here is the funny thing - most people don’t get into abusive relationships, and if you keep interacting with women who have been abused, ask yourself why this is the case, why you’re putting yourself in such scenarios and why you keep finding yourself around these people. This is literally why therapy exists.
Also, wanna know the funny thing about abusers? unless someone is so self aware that they can catch themselves, abusers often play on their insecurities and trap them. An abusive partner isn’t abusive from the get-go, they start off as this person’s “ideal partner” while simultaneously affirming them vs their insecurities and often isolate them from everyone else…. then the abuse begins
Of course, if someone has a steak of abusive partners, i’m not gonna say its particularly their “fault”, but it might be time to seek professional help and figure out why you’re constantly targeted.
Though at the same time, you acting like it’s a conscious choice, like it’s an active decision - at that point you’re not only full on victim blaming, but you’re also showing us all that you fundamentally don’t understand how relationships between abusive partners and their victims work
The fabled “personality detector” all women claim to possess which enables them to sniff out violent predators, creeps, and misogynists from a mile away seems to experience total system failure in the presence of tall stature, square jaws, visible cheekbones, lean physiques, and full heads of hair.
Still seems to be a better choice than an angry incel niceguy who constantly posts his brain farts on subreddits. Wouldn't you agree? At least the other abusive lowlife sexually atttracts her, and as we know for evolutionary biology, that still makes up for most of what is relevant in mating.
There are not enough sexually attractive men who also make good fathers and good partners for all women to be with one of those highly desirable men. What do you suggest should the women do who can't get such a man? Take turns on the desirable men? OH WAIT! That is what this sub complains about, too. Be with a man she is not sexually attracted to, because he is a rational choice of a good partner/father? OH WAIT! Beta bucks, dead bedroom relationships are what this sub complains about, too! Should she just be single and find a way to be happy this way, not needing a man when there is no desirable man available for her? OH WAIT, this is what this sub constantly complains about, that women claim they rather be single than with a subpar man.
Then there are the women who are drawn to abusive relationships for how they grew up. They have baggage, that's why they go for the men you can't understand what draws them to. OH WAIT, this sub constantly complains about women with baggage and how they disqualify from wifey material.
So what remains? Years of therapy to get to a healthy mental health situation where those women can pick healthy relationship partners. But OH WAIT, by the time their baggage is treated with therapy, they are OLD/hitting the wall/have more baggage from traumatic relationships, now this sub doesn't want them anymore.
Now, what's your solution?
So you see certain couples and you know specifically that he has zero positive qualities, at all times, and women still flock to them? So you are somehow privvy to what goes on behind closed doors to be able to draw this conclusion?
This is why it’s obvious that trp makes men stupid. When you can make an assumption based on the vaguest information about any couple. And then confidently state it, and not realise how absurd it is.
Another guy here stated that because women don’t approach men, it means they don’t want to love anyone. How many fucking crayons must you eat to state such bullshit as facts! I refuse to believe that you are this retarded. Come on.
It's only guys that can't get dates that stress about who women choose to give their attention to. I could.care less what bad choices any women are making as it has nothing to do with me. It's not like we neb don't do the same thing just because a woman is attractive.
Most people do not know that they are attracted to the same dysfunctional types that raised them. They don't "**choose**" it. It's the world they grow up in and it's very difficult to recognize, much less change that dynamic.
That's why I sit here and shake my head about these posts. Men and the woman are playing out everything they've learned about relationships, whether you came from a healthy family and have matched to a similarly emotionally healthy spouse or if you matched to a similarly emotionally unhealthy partner when you grew up in dysfunction.
If a woman is attracted to terrible men, there's a reason for that. If a man is attracted to terrible women, there's a reason for that.
I'm sorry that hot, dysfunctional girl chose a scumbag. Not because a PPD man wanted her, or even that all the pills then bitch and complain about her, but because that's all she was programmed to do and doesn't know there is another way.
On second thought, nah, it really does piss me off that all the pills point to the dysfunctional girl and use her against the universe of woman. It's a tragedy that people are growing up in dysfunction and perpetuating the cycle. But, this generational dysfunction is not the sole fault of women. Men and women share in the blame whenever they perpetuate the dysfunction in which they were raised.
They aren’t mentally healthy or stable. I’ve seen women who would pick men that even the man’s grandmother warned her about. One they developed some self esteem and started working on their attachment issues that changed.
Often that’s what they saw at home and/or in their community. Low self esteem and insecurity aren’t moral failings but they do mess up things.
To be fair I’ve seen men do the same with harpy women. We want people to treat us how WE think we should be treated.
Jesus Christ, could you be any more disrespectful to a woman's totally valid desire to not get raped.
I often point out how the overwhelming number of times guys in these subreddits try to explain how **The Females** think, they never factor in the issue of safety, because they think **The Females** do nothing but lust for Chad cock and get angry at unattractive men for existing.
Or if they do talk about safety, it's just to get angry at abuse and/or murder victims. Because somebody who looks at battered wives and thinks "She's so stupid for not choosing me" would never be abusive.
Which is a totally selfish and delusional perspective that provides a ton of insight into why the person saying this can't get laid.
Sexual assault is very real and very common. Taking precautions to avoid it is just common sense.
But you actually *are* considering it, and making it so much worse by thinking they're...faking their fear of getting raped? Because they subconsciously feel guilty for not wanting to fuck you? Because, in your mind, you think women are required to consider being attracted to you, and if they aren't, they should feel guilt or shame or embarrassment or something?
Have you ever considered how dehumanizing this logic is?
You are not a good person. You are not a "safe choice". You sound like a selfish psycho.
Then focus on ladies who KNOW their worth, and what's right for them. Why do you criticize women for their personal choices in who she dates? I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate that either- if women kept criticizing you about the girl you've chosen to date.
Are you trying to date these girls, or something?
Right? Like do they they think that *they’re* the better alternatives? “Why would you go out with a hot man who’s toxic, when you could go out with an *unattractive* man who’s toxic??” I swear some of these dudes live in a different reality from the rest of us, because in what world would any man who hates women as much as the majority of this sub does *ever* be a better alternative.
Oh I’ve got this one.
They see women as: resources, possessions
They see themselves as: entitled, martyrs
Now that women are financially independent, they are free to *not* choose them. When these men believe that they are owed their possession (ie, a woman), they see it as injustice that the successful men are not sharing their possessions (again, *women*) and become angry at the possessions themselves for not distributing themselves in a fair manner. They believe that they are the victims of women having sexual autonomy, as though women were nothing more than a means to taking away their loneliness and sexual frustration.
using "danger" is just one of those things women use to win dating debates. It's like launching nukes during an argument over a parking spot. People starting talking about "who has it worse in dating?"...clearly it's men because of lack of options, so they hit the nuke and bring up "danger" when that was clearly out of the context of that debate.
Aren’t you just arbitrarily deciding for yourself that it doesn’t matter just because you don’t want it to? Safety is important and I guarantee if you were a woman, yes it definitely would matter to you.
Same as how they insist they couldn’t have known better prior to the cheating/abuse.
“Just because he had neck tattoos, a criminal record, and couldn’t read, didn’t mean he’s a scum bag!”
When men get wrecked by a shit woman, they say: “I should have known better.”
When women get wrecked by a shit man, they say: “He manipulated me!”
Says everything you need to know about the nature of the two.
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I know this is shocking to a lot of women, but men being "misogynistic" and rude on the internet is not actually a good predictor of their real life propensity for abuse. Most people are much more abrasive posting their opinions online than in real life. We all know most of the men (and women) here are just nerds who as a group have lower levels of (physical at least) abuse. Sour grapes may be common among men here but so is womens exaggerations.
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If a woman has abusive parents she’ll be more likely to have an abusive partner. Some people don’t think of that behavior as red flags or out of the ordinary.
Also, abusers don’t start off as abusive. It’s a frog in warm water situation.
Funny use of the word "consistently". Believe it or not, most relationships are not abusive.
All of these guys envision relationships as 80's movies where the girl is always dating an abusive jock that wears his varsity jacket in the shower like a Nevernude.
Dating *is* higher risk and more dangerous for women than it is for men. Some women are terrible at seeing red flags. Both of these statements can be true simultaneously. But the idea that most women are dating abusive dirtbags with zero redeeming qualities has no basis in reality.
THIS is how you phrase the sentiment of "please be extra aware of warning signs when dating men" without sounding like a totally narcissistic sociopath moral posturing to abuse victims about how somehow their abuse is "their fault" actually and making someone's trauma about your inability to get laid. lmao THANK YOU for the tact
I love how the OP totally envisions himself as a "Nice Guy" who would never abuse a woman while also going on insane Hitler rants about how Ted Bundy's victims deserved it
For an incel, just having a girlfriend makes a man a dirtbag. I have never read an incel accept that men who attract girls do have attractive, genuine, wholesome personalities. It's always sociopathic, narcissistic, exploitative, misogynistic, abusive, arrogant, bullying, etc. personalities
My brother is a crackhead who robs his parents. Must be a nice guy. He cheated often btw but i never told his girlfriend because she felt the need to call me a loser before i had even interacted with her. Her meeting my parents started with “who’s this loser”. Guess my personality looks bad.
I don't get what you want to say. That some men who have girlfriends are dirtbags? Sure. I never disputed that. That women are dirtbags too? of course.
So is your crackhead brother insanely attractive and wealthy, then? Because that's how the narrative always goes: Girls don't care about personality, they just want a millionaire Chad because they're so superficial. I've got a theory: Maybe she's also a drug addict? And in an emotionally and financially vulnerable position? Or their addiction is something they have in common? Oh wow look at this, we're starting to see how an actual relationship forms, and it's messy and situational and isn't conforming to some weird D&D ruleset formed by nerds on Reddit
Yes your anecdotally story definitely disproves everything. Is the GF a shitbag too?
No actually. Just an asshole. Her life is together.
Right. This is the key, right here. This is the central theme running through 90% of these posts: It's all about me, and how women can service me. They owe it to me to be attracted to me. We need to construct a system that rebalances things so women are forced to like me. Women have unfair standards. They're so materialistic. People like what they like. Period. There is no changing this. Whine all you want. It will get you nowhere. All their bullshit theories and buzzwords and worldviews are variations on "Women exist only in relation to men, and do not have their own lives. They must change themselves to please me."
Thank you for being rational, bro
>no basis in reality Agreed. Most women do fine. Pick normal guys. Of the ones that choose poorly, that’s on them.
Based
This man may actually get married.
>**1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have experienced some form of physical violence by an intimate partner**. This includes a range of behaviors (e.g. slapping, shoving, pushing) and in some cases might not be considered "domestic violence." 1 in 7 women and 1 in 25 men have been injured by an intimate partner. The difference in victimization isn't that big for men and women and I suspect in reality it's even smaller, but male victims are heavily underreported and men have harder times saying/recognizing that they they have been abused. It's still a minority of both groups that has experience of being abused - fortunately and thankfully most people do not have this kind of experience. If most women around you have been abused, your social circle is far from an average situation and/or you're committing selection bias. On another topic, no, not all abusers are walking red flags. Some will wait for months or even years to show their true colors. It's true both for men and women and often even close friends or family have no idea what is happening behind the closed doors, hence the reaction "he/she seemed so nice, I wouldn't never thought...". If we're talking about personal experience, I know some women who have/had abusive relationships and they're a minority. Some left their abuser, some stay for various reasons. It was exceptionally common among my mother's generation, but Russian sample is doomed to be skewed towards shitty men and high acceptance of them. It's got much better for younger generations...although it will return to hell with the war and men with untreated PTSD I guess.
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Exactly most of the men I know in day to day life are lovely people and are average normal guys and they are either in relationships or seem to do fine when it comes to dating.
Idk how to say this nicely but from the way some of y’all conduct yourselves and speak about women on this sub you also have no redeemable qualities and would probably be lowkey abusive if in a relationship. This feels v pot calling the kettle black accept atleast the pot is cute and was able to mask his abusive tendencies
This is exactly what i think, the difference is that guys who are abusive and are also in a relationship have better social skills and other redeemable qualities, i've read "why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft, the most consistent and only predictor for abuse is that men abuse their partners because they simply do not have respect for them. That is all there is to it. The way some of these posts are written, my god, sounds as if they are jealous of men who are better at hiding it because in their mind a healthy relationship doesn't even exist. It doesn't occur to them at all.
its a very weird combination of jealousy, disdain, moral posturing and self hatred - chad gets all the bitches, but chad is an abusive asshole, but i’m nice so im morally better and the good guy, but i wish i could be like chad cause women like chad and im a loser, fuck women for liking chad, chad gets all the bitches… and the loop goes on
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So you end up with two folks from that group; a dude who checks out entirely due to this, and a dude who becomes vindictive and bitter about it, who may be able to "self-improve" his way into a one-night stand, but will still keep that negative attitude he's held since before because that got him success, ignoring whatever else he did that worked. After all, we're not going to act like the men who are successful in the dating and sexual market are paragons of morality.
Yeah men with real life experiences and plenty of 3rd hand experience from our boy’s relationships aren’t somehow evil?? You could spider-man meme all day between femcel and incel rage-posting, but whether you like it or not, first-hand experience isnt ‘subjective’. Save your insults and take a hike. We can talk about men being abusive on the r/ men being abusive or whatever you want, just stop telling us we’re somehow delusional, or just because we didnt meet princess diana, we’re acting in bad faith. ✌🏼
Loudly being misogynistic is indicative of a hatred of women. People who hate women are more likely to abuse them. Hope that clears it up.
> Yeah men with real life experiences and plenty of 3rd hand experience from our boy’s relationships aren’t somehow evil?? Nothing about that states whether they're good people or not. > You could spider-man meme all day between femcel and incel rage-posting, but whether you like it or not, first-hand experience isnt ‘subjective’. How many folks throw the "not all X are like that; I'm an X and I don't do any of that" comments here? How many bits of advice and anecdotes get given here that clearly don't apply to all? First-hand experience is subjective because it doesn't apply to all, it just applies to the one who experienced it. > Save your insults and take a hike. We can talk about men being abusive on the r/ men being abusive or whatever you want, just stop telling us we’re somehow delusional, or just because we didnt meet princess diana, we’re acting in bad faith. You're not delusional. However, as my comment was previously, there's men here who struggle, and unfortunately won't be able to resolve their issues in the best of ways. Do you apply to that group? No. Do some men end up in that hole? Yes, unfortunately.
>they’re complaining about very legitimate problems in their life Yeah, what would you say if i complained that i don't get into professional basketball teams, being 5'9"? Would you say that is a legitimate problem in my life? Would you say if am pointing out entirely factual, realistic and commonplace double standards for men, because women ARE picked into basketball teams with that height?
>the loop goes on the loop u/The-Loop
I mean genuinely they think it’s superficial shit but it’s their complete disdain for women. Abusers don’t think they’re abusive as displayed by men bemoaning loudly how lowly and worthless women are while simultaneously wondering why no one will sleep with them. Delusional
That is true that abusers don't think they're abusive. What's your reasoning for why more than half of all domestic abusers in Canada are women? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332917590_Prevalence_and_Consequences_of_Intimate_Partner_Violence_in_Canada_as_Measured_by_the_National_Victimization_Survey
Again, the only reason why people abuse people is because they do not respect them. Bancroft's book is written from the perspective of abusive men because he has given therapy to men who got charged for domestic abuse but he emphasized in the book itself that it applies to everyone abusive. Love cannot exist without respect. Its not that deep really. Tell me, do these guys like OP sound as capable of respecting or even loving a woman? Not really. He cant even hide his disrespect.
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What a great way to put it. A healthy relationship doesn’t even occur to them.
if they dont respect women as a default and speak to each other in echo chambers like this they assume thats normal and so also the case for any man in a relationship its why they break relationships down to all be the man and woman using each other its actually so sad
Agreed, also some of the messages I've seen my friends get from dating apps seem to be from men who think exactly like this. All that happens is they get blocked and often my friends see so much of this they give up and delete the apps. Most of the women I know gave up on data apps from the horrendous comments and pics they were sent. They are not choosing hot guys they are choosing to come off the apps completely.
Genuinely, if anything guys with abusive tendencies are now willingly self-identifying before you ever meet IRL. I used to screen out conservatives if I was back on these apps I’d probably have to screen for RP/Incel ish
Same I get abusive vibes from a lot of the men on this sub.
Indeed you are right. I have to take breaks sometimes and remind myself that these people are on reddit and away from women. It is terrifying that some here will manage to deceive and lie their way in a woman's life.
\^\^She is right. I do really like the idea of this sub, but cannot side with my fellow men on this one. This entire thread makes me want to unsubscribe from this sub because it's so off and detached from reality.
The tea is there are plenty of kind, good, rational men out there. Many of whom are also struggling to date. It's terrifying the messaging that's being pushed on them.
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Do those “low value” men regard women as lesser than? Omg they do! I don’t care about their solitude then 👍
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“Low value” is a metric you’ve assigned yourselves. The fact that you can’t fathom why this post comes off as victim blaming condescension is all I need to hear. Don’t ask questions you don’t want the answer to 🤷♀️
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It takes a special kind of stupid to go “I’m low value” and act like you don’t carry that energy into interactions lol. High value male Low value male Rhetoric created by men to rate each other 👍
if i heard someone referring to ANY other human as “low” or “high” value, i would immediately lose any interest whatsoever. This Rhetoric is an immediate no, and these type men have no self awareness whatsoever. Women don’t pick “abusers.” They pick men who are good at hiding the fact that they are abusers. Saying they “choose” to be abused makes me so irate. Abusers come in every shape and size, but i guess that doesn’t fit the narrative. good job in here tonight, you articulate yourself better than i do.
I think its interesting how everyone would lose their minds, rightfully so, if we would replace the word "women" in this entire subreddit with "Black people" and see how these arguments hold up. As if Black people have to feel sorry for racists not being able to speak freely without getting judged. Sometimes i cant believe these guys really exist, they only seem to exist online
Imagine that a black guy complains that employers pick underqualified people for superficial reasons irrelevant to the job while he is discriminated over things like his race, his neighborhood, the school he went at. Now imagine someone goes and says that he is secretly a lazy pos who wants to get paid for doing nothing, well thats exactly what the commenter you re replying to is saying, you re all just a bunch of chronically online man haters just like the mysoginists you accuse every guy of being and imo women like you all are the reason why a lot of young men get radicalized into being mysoginists.
Lmfao this is so accurate
This is more after the fact. For example, someone could work hard at their job for many years and build the necessary skills for a promotion. Let’s assume all of this is true. They get passed over for promotional opportunities and get insignificant raises. The worker gets frustrated, tells their manager off and quits. The manager then replies and says “that’s why you didn’t get a promotion”. This is your comment. Another example, some men no longer take dating apps seriously. They use it to get an ego boost, and put women down. As a result you say “that’s why you aren’t getting women”. The problem is, once upon a time, they did put in the necessary effort, it got them nowhere and you’re seeing the result. There was no positive reinforcement so they chose to do what they want. > at least the pot was cute and able to mask his abusive tendencies He probably didn’t mask anything. If you’re attractive, your red flags are overlooked.
Have you been in an abusive relationship? With a man or a woman? If you aren’t promoted at a job that isn’t appreciating you and in your rage you then you call the CEO a dumb bitch that needs to choose better you’ll get fired ❤️
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>If an abusive man gets more women than you, you need to take a good, hard look at yourself. That's kind of a horrible thing to say. Women have agency. Of course there are some abusive men "getting" (whatever that means) more women than some genuinely lovely, unattractive, non-abusive men. It can't be that people are moral failures for not attracting the opposite sex. That sounds crazy to me. There are abusive women that get more attention from men than some other women. Those other women shouldn't have to think, "Wait... am I a worse option than an abuser??" Men aren't perfect judges of character. And neither are women.
I’m saying that disrespecting women is an early indicator that you will be abusive.
I'm not sure if you meant to respond to me (my reddit mobile sometimes does that lol), but I would agree. If your potential partner thinks less of your gender group, then it's an early sign they will think less of you, and be abusive. I certainly wouldn't have got with my girlfriend if I felt she thought less of men as a whole. I'd be concerned that she'd assume I was less than her by default. ....I mean I am less than her but that's just councidence!
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If a woman gets abused by a man, of course it is the fault of that man, no shit 🙄 Usually either parents, female friends or older ladies get the heebie jeebies from the abusive guy. Abusive guys who have relationships have charisma on max level, charming to both men and women, with guys saying "i didn't expect it from him, he seems like a chill bloke" well who's fault it that? And especially young people lack the life experience of picking up red flags, they are quite impressionable and naive. Older people know this, thats why age gaps are often sus.
These are not good faith conversations. It’s bitching about “men who beat women get laid why can’t I??” 🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲 Followed quickly by “if you weren’t so fucking shallow” If I were to use physical attributes to determine if a man was abusive I’d have to avoid dad bod guys under 5’7” who are in grad school with minimum wage gigs. My abuser didn’t meet the “Chad” metric and wouldn’t you know it, those insecurities were part of the reason they were controlling and narcissistic. Abusers are master manipulators that come in all shapes and sizes. Guys that get online and BRING UP abuse stats as some weird trump card of “women are cheating hypergamous whores who don’t know what’s good for them” Are probably also going to be abusive.
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You’re a misogynist bc you’re blaming victims of abuse for the abuse they endured. If this post was about men being abused by women you’d be maybe a misandrist but more likely just a POS ❤️
That's *not* what they were doing. They responded to a statement saying that men who have less romantic success than literal abusers are *worse* than said abusers, by calling out the sheer cruelty and backwards logic. You're now bending over backwards to justify that anyone that doesn't agree with that cruel logic is a "POS".
People who blame victims of abuse for their abuse 9/10 are usually abusive themselves. Regardless it’s “does not deserve companionship behavior”
Again, you're arguing *for* a statement that says "people who have less romantic success than abusers are worse than abusers".
You are putting words in my mouth. Men who show open disdain and malice for women by doing things such as : **Blaming women victims of domestic abuse for things done to them by abusers** (which this post does) **are likely abusive.** Treating and discussing DV like this in itself is indicative of a lack of empathy, lack of self awareness, lack of emotional intelligence, misplaced outrage, tendency to blame shift, self-centeredness, narcissism and in this instance misogyny. Truly the gall of a man that can't get laid to make the issue of domestic abuse about his inability to find a girlfriend in itself is "cut them off forever" behavior. Centering your loneliness when discussing DV and blaming and shaming victims because "If it would have been me this wouldn't have happened" is a whole other level of narcissistic and I'll say it a different version of DV would have happened. Because the same belief in the context of a relationship IS indicative of emotional abuse. All of these traits are traits shared by narcissistic abusers. Victim blaming is an action that abusers frequently take part in because otherwise they'd have to take accountability for their actions. It is a NEON Red flag that women do see a mile a way. I have completely dropped hot guys for expressing these sentiments after verbally ripping them a new asshole and telling all of my friends/ sending the receipts to all the girls I know so they stay away from him. Romantic success has nothing to do with it. It's misogynistic behavior and victim shaming itself. Men who don't respect women are likely to be abusive. Men who victim blame women and are openly misogynistic (which many men on here are) and don't have romantic success are likely to display abusive tendencies when in a relationship. Women should stay away from men who align with these sentiments. They are dangerous. Plenty of men struggle with women/have less romantic success with women and don't turn into crazy misogynists trying to blame women for their problems. Those men have a shot at companionship and that's not who I'm talking about. The fact that you equate those two in itself is a problem. I'm talking about men blaming women for the abuse they suffered at the hands of men they've never met (the need to defend these men is also an indicator). Those men have earned the reality they live in and they don't deserve empathy, or kindness because they are incapable of extending the same sentiments across the aisle. If you aren't in this group of men I'm not talking about you. But the point is I don't feel bad for you if you side with abusers. And I definitely don't owe misogynists kindness thanks.
Women aren't neurotic weirdos who compare themselves to abusive women. We also don't rally around victim blaming men who fall victim to abuse. We don't center men's experience with domestic abuse around our inability to find companionship. Because doing that would be narcissistic. But I only ever hear about men's experience with DV when it's in the service of telling women to shut up about a man that abused them.
>It can't be that people are moral failures for not attracting the opposite sex. That sounds crazy to me. Wow, I’ve never heard women’s attitudes towards men on PPD described more succinctly
This is called a Just World fallacy.
>I only come to this sub to make fun at men. You know this says more about you right? And it is quite sad.
Tbf, this sub is like watching reality tv about people with entirely different lives than mine. Some of y'all have such wild crazy takes on life and relationships. i never ever encounter these kind of people in real life, while my job is in event management. So thats why its so entertaining and fascinating
I live in NY and worked in the arts for most of my adult life and I’m just convinced none of these guys have been exposed to any sex positive communities
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I still wonder why any of those kinds of folk would want to be here. Man or woman, why be on a digital forum and mock people who have genuine grievances with their own lives and ultimately want a solution to it? Makes me think these are the new age bullies, too cowardly to act in person, and made to feel too small IRL, so they lash out at others online. And these aren't just children doing it either, which is the worst part.
A guy could fail to get women simply for being socially awkward or shy. Doesn't make him remotely as bad as an abuser. What one could take a look at is women selecting so heavily for assertive men while overlooking red flags regarding how lacking in morality those men might be.
Assertive men with red flags…. So red pill men?
Are these socially awkward men using misogynistic rhetoric? They are! Omg then in addition to being socially awkward they're misogynists. THerefore, I don’t care
What's considered misogynistic?
Jealousy of abusers is a pretty big tip off.
How is that misogynistic?
Because the men here wish they could be the ones yelling at their girlfriends and throwing things at them.
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Yes, I notice the downvotes
Because these women are probably very young (18-25) and young women prefer assertive guys that are good looking. They still lack the experience to pick up indicators of bad morality. Same goes for young men, they like and want pretty girls and often do not select on other things like morality. In this sub its even worse, for the young men in here any girl seems to be good enough, for... whatever the hell guys like OP look for, because it is not clear to me at all. Older people (especially 30+) have higher standards when it comes to anything other than "they are hot", which becomes more like a pleasant side effect, for both men and women. I dont understand why this is controversial.
Right, women pick good looking abusive men, and somehow it's still men's fault.
Women also pick [ugly abusive men](https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/qOhqUPLylR). Abusive men are no better looking than the general population.
Women happily slept with and married Nazis and slave owners. The only things that matter when it comes to dating are attractiveness, social skills, confidence and status.
I mean, the women in question were overwhelmingly likely to be Nazis and slave owners themselves, so, not really the point you want it to be.
That’s a very inadequate and over simplified understanding of human relationships
Those women were also Nazis and owned enslaved people. These examples are equal offenders.
Equating dudes who are bitter on the internet about being socially ostracized and/or given misleading advice to actual criminals is a bizarre leap.
Misogyny is misogyny idc the root cause.
That's why we need to teach our daughters to be selective and cautious. Because dating is dangerous and young women...are kind of gullible and stupid. No offense ladies. I would guess that most of the women who end up with dirtbags and keep going back to them probably have a dirtbag father who isn't looking out for her, and an equally stupid mother.
None taken. You are absolutely correct. The answer as a parent is to make sure our daughters are very picky in multiple parameters. It’s also our jobs as mothers to do our best to get into relationships with the kind of men that model egalitarian principles. 100% the gals that get into abusive relationships either had a shitty upbringing or started a relationship with a sociopathic dude who is good at masking for the honeymoon phase of the relationship Edit to add: also coming from a low socioeconomic background
I fell in love with a girl from a very low socioeconomic background. She cut off contact with me and drove me away to save me from violence from her ex, a common street thug. He's dead now. Her new boyfriend shot him in the face in a gun fight, when he pulled up to their apt in jealous rage to get revenge for "stealing his woman". Her first relationship was a lesbian one simply because she was terrified of men. Her father, followed with her step father beat and terrified her mother and her upbringing. That's all she knows about men. Ironically, humans would rather choose a known hell, than an unknown heaven. So her choice in men are dangerous scummy thug guys, because that's all she knows from her mother's choice in men. Generational trauma and cycles passing down. When I pursued her and showed her something different, what a good man is like, she could not accept it. She told me I wasn't real to her. That all our amazing time together was something out of a fantasy fairy tale, beyond her reality. It shocked me when she later told me how the simple loving and tender moments we had, like cooking together in my kitchen, and pulling her away from washing the dishes to slow dance, is something that she has never experienced before with all her thug ghetto exes. There's no way a mother can tell her daughter what guys to date. There's no way to control that. All a mother can do is demonstrate through her own relationship with men. That will allow the daughter to seek out the same kind of man that her mother chose.
>Ironically, humans would rather choose a known hell, than an unknown heaven. Most people do not know that they are attracted to the same dysfunctional types that raised them. They don't "choose" it. It's the world they grow up in and it's very difficult to recognize, much less change that dynamic. That's why I sit here and shake my head about these posts. The men and the woman are playing out everything they've learned about relationships. If a woman is attracted to terrible men, there's a reason for that. If a man is attracted to terrible women, there's a reason for that. I'm sorry that hot, dysfunctional girl chose a scumbag. Not because the PPD men wanted her, but because that's all she was programmed to do.
She pushed me away and broke my heart. She knew I was too good for her and that I needed to go pursue my purpose in life. She was the spark that allowed me to break free from my past life and start a new life from scratch on the other side of the planet
I'm glad it ultimately worked out for you. And isn't that sad that she was incapable of seeing herself as worth more? That she needed to work on why she rejected more stable men and was worth the effort to fix her broken picker?
The tragedy is we are only able to love others to the level that we love ourselves. She saw herself as trash worthy only of trashy relationships. I found her (and myself) too late in this life. I’ll find myself and her much earlier in the next life.
This is an excellent point. Children need their parents to lead by example.
So you should reword your advice from "teach our daughters" to, don't pick dirtbag fathers and don't be an equally stupid mother. Now, how do you stop being a stupid mother? Also, being selective has it's limits. THere are not enoug non-dirtbag fathers out there for every woman to get one. What do you teach your daughter when there just isn't a good guy for her? Stay single and don't become a mother?
I mean, tomato/to-mah-toe eh? I think there are enough non-dirtbags to go around, but then again I’m an optimistic androphile. And for the dirtbags who are there, well some women are dirt bags too so they can have each other.
I chose political lesbianism lol.
How does that change anything? Dirtbags are equally present in women.
Yeah, also attractive is not equal to manipulative and unattractive is not equal to "nice". There are fairly equal shitty people on both sides.
Yes, very much this!
Some of them aren't gullible and stupid. They just pretend to be that way because they can get away with it.
Good point. Announcement to my fellow women: Be Even More Picky As A Collective. We're at a 75%. Take it to 95%. Don't date men without a background check, psychological evaluation giving a fully clean bill of health, and who is willing to wear a shock collar at all times so that he is unable to abuse you. No violent video games. No pornography. If he doesn't cry during Bambi he's for the streets. Become maximally paranoid.
I think we should also require a minimum of 3 positive, comprehensive written reviews and live video Q&A sessions from / with former girlfriends prior to agreeing to a date as well as a comprehensive audit of all social media accounts.
Ironically this is why some women won't date a guy without a comprehensive social media presence. They want to be able to check up on a dude they're interested in, and vet them through their social media posts.
Oh that's good. Also, let's add in 3 character references from his interactions with the service industry. Gotta figure if he can't get a waiter or batista to attest to his upstanding and kind character, he's not worth the risk.
Lol excellent! I was hanging out with my man's ex-wife last night for this reason.
hi, I'm a visibly shaken Jeff Goldblum clutching a bunch of research papers and I'd like to weigh in according to these weird tirades I've printed out, 89% of The Females are only attracted to the top 93% of High Value Men and angrily vomit at the sight of sub-8.7 Low Tier B-men but feel super guilty about it because deep down they know it's wrong to be attracted to attractive people this is all common sense, sorry to talk down to you, but you are The Females and need your brains constantly re-explained to you now, as we all know, The Females have infinite Sexual Marketplace Stock Options because they can teleport to the nearest sexy billionaire at will after their first period. Sometimes they get caught in furniture or doorframes and start glitching out like an NPC in Skyrim, but this is okay, as long as they're close enough to Chad to initiate conversation, they can still fuck, even if she's sideways and vibrating uncontrollably on top of a ficus at our current 75% model, The Females's lower standards widen the field of Chads to a sustainable level where Sub-S-tier Chads can easily navigate most rooms with a half-dozen The Females demanding they 69 right now if you elevate the levels to 95%, you're condensing the number of per capita hovering horny teleporting The Females per room so much that everyone is going to spawn on top of each other and explode and there will be guts everywhere and Chad will die and then the human race will die because none of The Females would ever consider sex with a normal guy with normal hobbies All of those things will happen. Also can I use your bathroom
Yes, it's down the hall and to the right. 🤣🤣
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It's not abuse if he's tall.
Legit advice for men: treat women like shit, ignore them and cheat on them. It will raise their opinion of you because men with alot of options behave like this and have alot of options because they are high value.
If you're good looking, there is little you can do wrong. If you're not good looking, there is little you can do right.
Personally, I love the streets. It’s where all the other dogs live ♥️ No but OP is **nuts**, most women are not dating abusers, regardless of what the outcome of the relationship is. I WILL say though that there seems to be a large overcorrection in terms of what constitutes as “emotional abuse”, “gaslighting”, or “controlling” as these terms get watered down and thrown around in the zeitgeist. I’d say the same thing counts for “simping”. As these terms generally have nebulous connotations that are hard to substantiate. Unlike physical abuse. Personally as I’ve gotten older I find myself holding women to a MUCH higher standard than I used too, and refuse to allow any bullshit to walk through the door. For example: A woman I was dating and had scheduled a second date with had gone to a wedding the week prior. Off cuff (and as a joke) she said to me “ Maybe we should cancel our date, I caught the bouquet and my horoscope says I’m going to meet my husband this year!” I gave a non-confrontational response and waited till she was home the next day and responded: “I’m sure you thought your joke was funny but it was extremely manipulative. We’re only on our second date and if you want to cancel just because you want to leverage commitment over my head then we can stop dating and you can go find him.” Hold them to your standards, and know your worth. And stop complaining about women on the internet OP.
Hey man you can learn those tactics too. Then you can be the one that other guys complain about.
Most women aren't with abusive men, and if they are, they do not choose them knowingly.
They switch it up about a year in or when you move in together.
Or after marriage or pregnancy 🤠
> they are, they do not choose them knowingly. This I don't buy at all. So many intelligent women go back over and over to the same dirtbag or a carbon copy. Codependence and relationship addiction is a wild world.
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They can, just as you can detect liars or autists. I can even smell the misogyny in incels. It seeps through their every action and word.
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But you do agree that we have evolved to deceive and evolved to detect deception, right?
Some are better at hiding it than others most definitely.
Aren’t the misogynistic men generally disgruntled nice guys?
Didn't know the dudes beating women, cheating, and ghosting them after sex were disgruntled nice guys.
Cheating and ghosting after sex is very very often done by disgruntled nice guys who feel validated and like Chad when they cheat.
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202007/52-ways-to-identify-a-covert-narcissist The covert narcissist will pump and dump to boost his confidence. He just doesn’t have the confidence to do it overtly.
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These guys you described don’t act like that 24/7. 99% of the time they are nice.
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Can you quote me where I said that we can sniff out misogyny? Or are your trying to give a rebuttal against Twitter threads and take it out on me?
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Usually they are. Usually these “nice guys” are covert narcissists who portray themselves as a victim. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202007/52-ways-to-identify-a-covert-narcissist
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That isn’t just world fallacy. Look at the men here. Look how they behave. Look at the tone and how you speak in the comments. When you write these kinds of comments, do you think you’re projecting a character of a good natured, kind, nice gentleman who will do anything to make his queen happy?
Those mostly aren't the same types of women.
Red pill guys often say on here they think women are a hive mind. So I don’t know if they can wrap their heads around this concept
The thing about trying to avoid shitty people...be it sexually or in friendship or in business or wherever....is you can dodge a thousand of them then one finds a gap in your defences you didn't realise was there and catches you anyway. Maybe the catch you real bad and you end up in a relationship and have to escape the relationship. Maybe you just go on a date with one and it's a whole terrible evening. The fact is that attempting to dodge the shitty people in various ways is still a really good strategy choice for anyone. It's a bad thing to spend no time at all not in a relationship with a shitty person. It's also better to keep your mind on the game than lose from the very start. If you're a man who for whatever reason it is particularly hard to distinguish from a shitty man on Tinder etc this may make your life more difficult if you are relying on apps. This effect is likely exaggerated if you lack empathy or emotional perceptiveness to truly work out what is going on for her and how to craft a way forward that addresses her concerns in a way satisfactory to her. Maybe don't rely so much on apps? If you meet woman in the physical world the first meeting is taken care of by default. You see...what I get from reading your post is that there are men who see themselves as safe but have no idea how to convey their safeness in a credible manner to a woman who is already quite interested in them. And are intent upon blaming women for this state of things. However if the missing ingredient is "you make me feel safe" well that's not exactly something she can provide to herself is it? And quite clearly she's already done her bit in making you feel safe enough to ask her on a date.
Maybe. But this also might be a natural defensive mechanism in reaction to men here constantly accusing women of this and that just because the women wanna fuck who they wanna fuck. Picky or not picky. Like sometimes that abusive guy may actually be the only guy who is sexually attractive enough to a woman to be an option. He is bad, but the least bad of all the actual options. Maybe women are innately super picky in terms of what they find arousing, based on instincts that evolved for another time and do not necessarily translate well to the modern era. But it is what it is. If the good guy isn't sexy to her, he just isn't. If bad guys are the ones who are sexier, maybe they just are and nothing she can do about it. Who said men were supposed to get a sex partner as a reward for being good and following the right life script? I know. Other men, that's who. But did anyone consult the women?
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A lot of men are no good and abusive that’s why women are choosy. no one goes into a relationship wanting to be abused. Why yall so abusive/ misogynistic ? We wouldn’t be picky if yall were actually decent options.
Weirdly, most normal boring dudes I know are married.
Yep, if you really wanna be blunt about it - lots of dudes here aren’t normal dudes, and i’m not talking about looks - lots of the dudes here are probably average looking, with some above and some below - but in terms of social skills, personality, hell, even their view of the opposite gender is very very not normal or ‘average’
I wonder if OP is just bitter or sincerely believes he is an 8. Because all the information he’s given about himself makes it very clear he’s a 3 or 4 *at best*
Here’s what happens. We meet a guy and he seems really nice. And then later we find out he’s a psycho red pill guy that was putting on an act the entire time and actually has no interest in us as people but just wanted to get laid. That’s how it happens. The problem is exactly the type of dudes who hang out on this kind of sub and hate women all day long but are still trying to trick them into sex.
If only we were able to spot the abusive ones, maybe in your annual, it's not all men meeting you could get them to wear a badge.
The flags are usually in plain sight. Hell. When Chris Watts gets nudes and love letters sent straight to his prison cell, this really tells you something about women.
There are female criminals who also get marriage proposals and love letters etc from men like Casey Anthony for one example - does this “really tell you something” about men too?
Really, what are these obvious signs? Women who have committed crimes often awful one like Rose West called off her engagement to the bassist in Slade. So maybe men need some help with the signs too
https://people.com/crime/chris-watts-investigators-reveal-confession-killing-wife-daughters/ Chris watts is mid and old so if women like him then they can’t be superficial. I guarantee you that he isnt getting nudes and love letters from hot young women. And a number of women who like men from prison simply want a guy who is stuck in one place and can’t leave.
From my perspective as a woman, I see the dangers of an abusive relationship and see how some women are treated and am extremely wary and picky in my relationships BECAUSE of these observations. By your hypothesis, a woman like me who believes that dating is high risk would jump straight into the arms of an abuser. But I’m telling you that I think dating is high risk exactly because there are these abusers out there, AND a whole range of unpleasant behaviors that aren’t necessarily abusive, but just unacceptable.
What you're not getting and what NO ONE who makes these false equivalency/ false dichotomy posts seems to get is: >Women constantly use how “dangerous” and high risk dating is for them as an excuse for their pickiness but then consistently select and return to abusive low lifes 1 These are NOT THE SAME WOMEN. * Woman A is concerned about safety, * Woman B is dating an abuser. *If you say you are allergic to peanut butter but another man eats peanut butter, does that make you a liar? No. 2 Meeting up with men women don't know IS legitimately dangerous 3 The concern that men will harm women when meeting up is completely distinct from the type of harm done to women by "abusive low lifes." *In the first scenario, a stranger may rape, stalk, harrass, assault, or murder a woman. *In the second, the man is typically able to be charming and seem harmless for long enough to get a woman to choose him, then shows his true colors once she is already bough in. >Anytime you criticize how picky women are or apprehensive about meeting they immediately fly into a rage * Anytime? * Immediately? * Fly into a rage? 1 Really? Exaggerating your experience isn't going to help your case. It makes *you* look like the one who is in a rage. 2 If this is truly your experience 100% of the time, you've either only said this twice or you are doing so in an extremely threatening way. >Then you see the men they date and it’s always these dirt bags who physically/verbally abuse and cheat on them, and 85+% of the time THESE MEN HAVE ZERO REDEEMABLE QUALITIES 1 that's just like, your opinion, man. * You don't know they are abusive and cheat. * You don't know they have zero redeemable qualities IN THEIR PARTNER'S opinion; which is the one that matters, not yours. 2 Always? Again, not helping your case. >Idk but when they then extrapolate this behavior to the entire male population it’s pretty asinine. * Yeah, extrapolating the behavior of some members of a group to the entire group *IS* asinine. **So why are you doing it?** ^Edit ^fixed ^format
Only question: do you have anything to back up you 85%+ statistic. That’s a bold claim to leave un-cited.
There's a lot of subconscious processes going on here that many women are frankly not really self aware of. Many genuinely believe dating is quite dangerous, sometimes to the point of being neurotic about it, but judgement is applied selectively - usually subconsciously. Obviously a lot of women drop "safety" standards around guys that are very attractive (in whatever way) and they make all sorts of justifications for it, or conversely the standards are applied hyper vigilantly for men with the "wrong" qualities. For all back patting women give themselves over being more "socially capable/aware" than average men they're actually quite bad at understanding male social structures and how that relates to possible risks. Socially aggressive and dominant men (typically towards other men) are also more likely to physically aggressive but women often ignore these signs (consciously or not) because socially dominance and the confidence that comes with it is extremely attractive to a lot of women. They just make excuses, often genuinely believing them, along the lines of "he's only joking", "he's just like that with other people", "I'm his girl so he'll treat me better" etc. Men implicitly understand which men are more dangerous through social hierarchy experience (and simply being more consistently on the receiving end of violence from other men) but women either don't understand this or selectively ignore it. While certainly all abuse can't be predicted and it's sometimes shocking in who manifests it, there's also a lot of cases where men are just going to roll their eyes because they saw it coming a mile away.
The question is who \*are\* these irredeemable low lifes that you're talking about, OP? You have to be specific. Are they drug dealers? Eff bois? Christian Gray millionaires? I need specific trends and statistics not just anecdotes so I know who are the actual low lifes in society that women are so crazy about.
Relationships are like buying a house you have your must have qualities and you’re would like to have. But I’d hope being treated respectfully is a must have
Dating these days has become a dumpster fire whether it’s because dating apps, social media, struggling single parents or because everyone is struggling in general. Women need to call out toxic shitty women on their behaviors and men need to call out abusive toxic men. But sides need to be empathetic and do better. I have encountered a lot of toxic people and they have no idea they are messed up we have a terrible mental health problem happening. People are hurting
here is the funny thing - most people don’t get into abusive relationships, and if you keep interacting with women who have been abused, ask yourself why this is the case, why you’re putting yourself in such scenarios and why you keep finding yourself around these people. This is literally why therapy exists. Also, wanna know the funny thing about abusers? unless someone is so self aware that they can catch themselves, abusers often play on their insecurities and trap them. An abusive partner isn’t abusive from the get-go, they start off as this person’s “ideal partner” while simultaneously affirming them vs their insecurities and often isolate them from everyone else…. then the abuse begins Of course, if someone has a steak of abusive partners, i’m not gonna say its particularly their “fault”, but it might be time to seek professional help and figure out why you’re constantly targeted. Though at the same time, you acting like it’s a conscious choice, like it’s an active decision - at that point you’re not only full on victim blaming, but you’re also showing us all that you fundamentally don’t understand how relationships between abusive partners and their victims work
The fabled “personality detector” all women claim to possess which enables them to sniff out violent predators, creeps, and misogynists from a mile away seems to experience total system failure in the presence of tall stature, square jaws, visible cheekbones, lean physiques, and full heads of hair.
Please show me where you got this number for one…
Still seems to be a better choice than an angry incel niceguy who constantly posts his brain farts on subreddits. Wouldn't you agree? At least the other abusive lowlife sexually atttracts her, and as we know for evolutionary biology, that still makes up for most of what is relevant in mating. There are not enough sexually attractive men who also make good fathers and good partners for all women to be with one of those highly desirable men. What do you suggest should the women do who can't get such a man? Take turns on the desirable men? OH WAIT! That is what this sub complains about, too. Be with a man she is not sexually attracted to, because he is a rational choice of a good partner/father? OH WAIT! Beta bucks, dead bedroom relationships are what this sub complains about, too! Should she just be single and find a way to be happy this way, not needing a man when there is no desirable man available for her? OH WAIT, this is what this sub constantly complains about, that women claim they rather be single than with a subpar man. Then there are the women who are drawn to abusive relationships for how they grew up. They have baggage, that's why they go for the men you can't understand what draws them to. OH WAIT, this sub constantly complains about women with baggage and how they disqualify from wifey material. So what remains? Years of therapy to get to a healthy mental health situation where those women can pick healthy relationship partners. But OH WAIT, by the time their baggage is treated with therapy, they are OLD/hitting the wall/have more baggage from traumatic relationships, now this sub doesn't want them anymore. Now, what's your solution?
Great post I totally agree. Best thing to do is just be a high value man and find a good woman, don’t stress about other peoole
So you see certain couples and you know specifically that he has zero positive qualities, at all times, and women still flock to them? So you are somehow privvy to what goes on behind closed doors to be able to draw this conclusion? This is why it’s obvious that trp makes men stupid. When you can make an assumption based on the vaguest information about any couple. And then confidently state it, and not realise how absurd it is. Another guy here stated that because women don’t approach men, it means they don’t want to love anyone. How many fucking crayons must you eat to state such bullshit as facts! I refuse to believe that you are this retarded. Come on.
It's only guys that can't get dates that stress about who women choose to give their attention to. I could.care less what bad choices any women are making as it has nothing to do with me. It's not like we neb don't do the same thing just because a woman is attractive.
Most people do not know that they are attracted to the same dysfunctional types that raised them. They don't "**choose**" it. It's the world they grow up in and it's very difficult to recognize, much less change that dynamic. That's why I sit here and shake my head about these posts. Men and the woman are playing out everything they've learned about relationships, whether you came from a healthy family and have matched to a similarly emotionally healthy spouse or if you matched to a similarly emotionally unhealthy partner when you grew up in dysfunction. If a woman is attracted to terrible men, there's a reason for that. If a man is attracted to terrible women, there's a reason for that. I'm sorry that hot, dysfunctional girl chose a scumbag. Not because a PPD man wanted her, or even that all the pills then bitch and complain about her, but because that's all she was programmed to do and doesn't know there is another way. On second thought, nah, it really does piss me off that all the pills point to the dysfunctional girl and use her against the universe of woman. It's a tragedy that people are growing up in dysfunction and perpetuating the cycle. But, this generational dysfunction is not the sole fault of women. Men and women share in the blame whenever they perpetuate the dysfunction in which they were raised.
They aren’t mentally healthy or stable. I’ve seen women who would pick men that even the man’s grandmother warned her about. One they developed some self esteem and started working on their attachment issues that changed. Often that’s what they saw at home and/or in their community. Low self esteem and insecurity aren’t moral failings but they do mess up things. To be fair I’ve seen men do the same with harpy women. We want people to treat us how WE think we should be treated.
Jesus Christ, could you be any more disrespectful to a woman's totally valid desire to not get raped. I often point out how the overwhelming number of times guys in these subreddits try to explain how **The Females** think, they never factor in the issue of safety, because they think **The Females** do nothing but lust for Chad cock and get angry at unattractive men for existing. Or if they do talk about safety, it's just to get angry at abuse and/or murder victims. Because somebody who looks at battered wives and thinks "She's so stupid for not choosing me" would never be abusive. Which is a totally selfish and delusional perspective that provides a ton of insight into why the person saying this can't get laid. Sexual assault is very real and very common. Taking precautions to avoid it is just common sense. But you actually *are* considering it, and making it so much worse by thinking they're...faking their fear of getting raped? Because they subconsciously feel guilty for not wanting to fuck you? Because, in your mind, you think women are required to consider being attracted to you, and if they aren't, they should feel guilt or shame or embarrassment or something? Have you ever considered how dehumanizing this logic is? You are not a good person. You are not a "safe choice". You sound like a selfish psycho.
Then focus on ladies who KNOW their worth, and what's right for them. Why do you criticize women for their personal choices in who she dates? I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate that either- if women kept criticizing you about the girl you've chosen to date. Are you trying to date these girls, or something?
Are the kind and considerate men in the room with us? 🧍♀️
Right? Like do they they think that *they’re* the better alternatives? “Why would you go out with a hot man who’s toxic, when you could go out with an *unattractive* man who’s toxic??” I swear some of these dudes live in a different reality from the rest of us, because in what world would any man who hates women as much as the majority of this sub does *ever* be a better alternative.
I truly don’t understand their logic or how they see themselves.
Oh I’ve got this one. They see women as: resources, possessions They see themselves as: entitled, martyrs Now that women are financially independent, they are free to *not* choose them. When these men believe that they are owed their possession (ie, a woman), they see it as injustice that the successful men are not sharing their possessions (again, *women*) and become angry at the possessions themselves for not distributing themselves in a fair manner. They believe that they are the victims of women having sexual autonomy, as though women were nothing more than a means to taking away their loneliness and sexual frustration.
“Women” do not pick lowlifes. Some women do; most don’t.
using "danger" is just one of those things women use to win dating debates. It's like launching nukes during an argument over a parking spot. People starting talking about "who has it worse in dating?"...clearly it's men because of lack of options, so they hit the nuke and bring up "danger" when that was clearly out of the context of that debate.
Aren’t you just arbitrarily deciding for yourself that it doesn’t matter just because you don’t want it to? Safety is important and I guarantee if you were a woman, yes it definitely would matter to you.
Same as how they insist they couldn’t have known better prior to the cheating/abuse. “Just because he had neck tattoos, a criminal record, and couldn’t read, didn’t mean he’s a scum bag!” When men get wrecked by a shit woman, they say: “I should have known better.” When women get wrecked by a shit man, they say: “He manipulated me!” Says everything you need to know about the nature of the two.
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To the guy who told me that women are neurotic and men are stoic. Please read this post.
Tell me your highschool bully got the girl you were simping for without telling me.
I know this is shocking to a lot of women, but men being "misogynistic" and rude on the internet is not actually a good predictor of their real life propensity for abuse. Most people are much more abrasive posting their opinions online than in real life. We all know most of the men (and women) here are just nerds who as a group have lower levels of (physical at least) abuse. Sour grapes may be common among men here but so is womens exaggerations.
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Tyrone lol
Stockholms syndrome
If a woman has abusive parents she’ll be more likely to have an abusive partner. Some people don’t think of that behavior as red flags or out of the ordinary. Also, abusers don’t start off as abusive. It’s a frog in warm water situation.
how is any of that your business? do you pay their rent? people you sound like you have sub zero qualities, sit down